We Were Wrong About Google - Here's What We're Correcting의 전체 녹취록

are you here? 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:47.359 Yeah, why yeah. 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:48.879 Why why are you here, Chris? 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:49.760 Why what did you think? 00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:51.359 I I I don't I don't know. 00:01:51.439 --> 00:01:52.400 But I love the question. 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:53.280 Why I'm here. 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:59.120 I mean, you look, uh I think uh philosophically it's it's it's a tough question why we are here. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:03.120 But uh let let's let's don't be don't be too f philosophically. 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:06.719 I I think I'm here, especially at smart e-commerce. 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:07.680 I I like that question. 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:08.960 Why I'm here and it's mech. 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:09.759 All right, all right. 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.800 Uh I don't know if I'm here because I'm failed. 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:15.039 I failed, I don't know. 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:20.000 But um I I I talked about that um in one of our episodes. 00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:27.120 I I still have these moments of of of just being proud, yeah, being part of this company. 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:29.199 And I think this means a lot to me. 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.599 I get a lot of strength out of it. 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:45.840 Um and and you know it, it's it's it's this this this little moments when when uh when I'm um I meet a friend I have seen, I haven't seen for a long time, and it just chucks me up and like Chris, what the fuck? 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.120 I I I saw your LinkedIn post, you were quoted by Reuters. 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:50.800 Well, what the fuck is going on? 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.199 And I'm like, that that's cool. 00:02:53.360 --> 00:03:03.199 Uh so this is I think still my that the motivation I have uh going to this place, uh, which I think means a lot because I'm I'm now I think the 17th year. 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:03.919 17th. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:04.479 Yes. 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:05.680 I think I'm a 16th. 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:07.919 Company's turning 20 next year, right? 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:09.599 Company's turning 20 next year. 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:11.280 We'll have, by the way, I think a big party. 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:12.560 We'll do something special here. 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.039 Nice podcast listeners get a discount on tickets. 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:16.400 Of course, of course. 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:17.280 No cover charge. 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:21.680 By the way, man, I'm just what you how how long are you with the firm now? 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:22.319 Uh nine. 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:22.879 Nine, yeah. 00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:24.560 One year. 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:26.000 One year, ten year anniversary. 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.520 I'm actually I'm actually in Austria now for 10 years. 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:30.080 All right. 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:30.560 Yeah. 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:31.360 All right. 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:32.000 Exactly. 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.000 So that's the reason why I'm here. 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:36.960 And I I I think it's not every day is great. 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:40.719 I have, for instance, this week I'm just crawling. 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:46.319 I I just tried to survive, but I'm still proud. 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.719 Not every single day, I'm honest with you. 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:53.199 But there are these moments where I'm like, fuck, this is great company, great people. 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:54.639 I just love being here. 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.599 Well, that's a super heartwarming answer, Chris. 00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:58.479 I know, I know. 00:03:58.560 --> 00:03:59.520 What should I do? 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:01.120 That's who I am. 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:02.639 Why are you here? 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:04.240 I'm because of the mummy. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:04.719 Yeah. 00:04:04.879 --> 00:04:06.879 Well, I'm here. 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:08.159 I'm not here at Smeck Man. 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.120 I'm here in summer school right now, and I'm here in summer school because I failed. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:11.759 You failed. 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:12.879 Why why did you fail? 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:14.000 Where did you fail? 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:15.520 I I failed. 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.680 Uh let's see, something this year. 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:25.439 I'm gonna say the uh our episode a while back about the uh August 17th bid changes. 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:26.079 All right. 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:32.399 I don't know by the way when this airs, if this is after before or after August 17th, but it's a date that will live in infamy. 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.879 But um something I got wrong there, because I got some emails from Ginny Marvin afterwards. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:41.360 At least she listens to the podcast. 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:42.560 What did she say? 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.079 You're not allowed to talk about it. 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:44.800 No. 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:53.519 Well, for I failed because I I I think I didn't re answer all of her emails, and I think I I I left her hanging at some point, so sorry, Ginny. 00:04:53.680 --> 00:05:05.759 Um, but I also something I got wrong is I had this conjecture that that change this is a change to the way Target Rose functions, that it's going to apply to all campaigns. 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:10.959 And to be fair, I thought it was a reasonable conjecture at the time, but it's not true. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:14.480 It's really only to campaigns that are limited by budget. 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.160 So that's a fact that I got wrong. 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:24.000 By the way, which is still quite some move on Google's side. 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:28.319 But uh uh very honorable that honorable that you bring this up, man. 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:28.639 Yeah. 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:30.319 Well even the great Mike. 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:33.279 I have

to yeah, I guess it's wrong sometimes. 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:34.399 Gives me confidence. 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:35.120 I'm wrong and more. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.360 Should I should we throw in a pop quiz, Chris? 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:44.240 By the way, uh I I I I can't be I can't be the cringe one. 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.720 Uh I of course I I failed many times this year. 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:59.360 Let's say the the one big failure I had still stings, is uh that I was flat out wrong. 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:04.079 And I'm I'm not tired of of of bringing this up about Google. 00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:06.480 I was so wrong about Google. 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.800 This episode sometimes I still watch it. 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:10.079 No, I'm not kidding. 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:10.879 I do that. 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:29.279 I still watch it and I I talked out of my ass, and I was just completely, I don't know, prison of the moment because every everyone who thought he or she knows something about the ad space was completely negative about Google's outlook, and I jumped jumped on this train and it hurts. 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:30.560 It hurts. 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:32.160 I was wrong. 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:33.120 I failed. 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:35.839 Actually, should be on summer school for the next 10 years. 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:40.240 Well, you got an A plus on shitting on open AI ads. 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:42.800 But watch yes, yes. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.920 Now now watch, it'll it'll turn into the biggest success story. 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.560 They won't hit 100 billion, they'll hit 200 billion. 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:49.519 We'll be so wrong. 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:56.879 If this is the case, mate, we we have to think about changing, changing, uh moving to some other country. 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:58.319 I have to leave the industry. 00:06:58.480 --> 00:06:59.120 Yes, yes. 00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:02.240 I have to so yeah, you failed, I failed. 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:03.279 That's why we are here. 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:04.480 We're in summer school. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:05.600 We're in summer school. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:06.240 Yes. 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:07.439 Anything else? 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:14.879 You are well for for failures, you mean there's don't get us. 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:17.839 There's plenty in my personal life as well. 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:19.360 Don't get us started. 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:20.160 There's plenty. 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:20.480 Yes. 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:34.800 Um, and you you know, you know, one of the things, Chris, like more people listen to this podcast now, and you know, also like uh on on LinkedIn and stuff, and we d people listen to what we have to say. 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:40.720 And I, you know, a couple years ago, if I made a mistake, it doesn't matter. 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:42.240 Yeah, no one no one listens. 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:42.959 Oh, for sure. 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:45.120 But you you feel the pressure of something like that as well. 00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:46.160 I makes sense. 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.959 I really try to be accurate and fair. 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:49.600 Makes sense. 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:55.360 By the way, that's why you're I think you're so good at what what you're doing, because it it means something to you. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:01.360 Um and I I can remember, I know, ladies and gents, before Mike Ryan was Mike Ryan. 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:17.279 Uh yeah when when this whole thing started, I don't know if I'm even allowed to talk about it, but the the first banger article on LinkedIn when you basically let's say you were kind of critical of of smart shopping. 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:17.519 Yeah. 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:23.519 This first article you launched, the the the pressure you felt, the nervousness you felt. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:26.720 Uh do I belong into this influencer space? 00:08:26.879 --> 00:08:30.000 May uh am I allowed to write critically about Google? 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:31.519 Man, you came a fucking long way. 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:36.480 And I think, man, being exposed means that of course you you go out go out on limbs sometimes. 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:37.360 It is what it is. 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:42.159 So I I think it's it's it's great to hear you you talk about that, think about that. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:44.639 But man, I think this is part of the game. 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:45.679 Yeah, for sure. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.080 And that's why we have people like Ginny to correct us. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:48.879 Sure thing. 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:54.480 And by the way, I mean uh I I met Ginny right away before she was Ginny Marvin at the SMX Advanced. 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:55.440 Ginny Marvin was always. 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:04.879 I think she's yeah, super important, um, playing a super important role at one of the biggest companies in the world. 00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:05.840 So shout out to her. 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:11.919 But I got to know her um when she I think uh moderated me on stage uh at the SMX Advanced in Seattle. 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:15.600 And I assume that she has been wrong as well. 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:17.600 Yes, I'm sure. 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:23.679 But um and by the way, the August 17th bidding change. 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.360 Ginny did a great job doing damage control on that. 00:09:27.519 --> 00:09:30.399 Yes, but there were so many things that were said that made no sense. 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.679 It was overall poorly communicated. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:34.639 Yes. 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:36.000 And that doesn't change. 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:36.799 No, no. 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:40.639 I think this is uh I I we talked to our Google representants, right? 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:42.879 I mean, the um I've shared that feedback with Google. 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:52.000 There was no and by

the way, even if it's just impacting uh campaigns limited by budget, I think it's still a thing. 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.240 Yeah, it's not like just because it's limited by budget doesn't mean it's small. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.639 There are some big campaigns that are limited by budget. 00:09:59.039 --> 00:09:59.840 Yes, yes. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:10.960 And again, I think the statement that Google, at least for these campaigns, is going for maybe on on purpose for the less efficient conversion stance, which is quite a big thing. 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:12.720 However, anyway, let's move on. 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:13.519 Summer school. 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:14.960 So summer school. 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:19.679 Um one big lesson from the first half of the year. 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:22.799 So, what's on the curriculum now? 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:25.840 Uh man, so many things. 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:38.159 Uh I would like to start with one, which is which is rather on the meta level, but um I've been now of part of this industry, let's say for 16, 17 years. 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:42.159 I by the way, I've never thought being part of the e-commerce industry. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:46.480 I started finance, I wanted to do actually something completely different. 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:55.679 And for better or worse, um I love being part of this industry because for me it's it's the most dynamic industry there is. 00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:06.960 I I I have quite a big network, my friends work in similar positions, but in other industries, you can can't compare anything to what what we are experiencing right now. 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:23.360 And my big learning is that the pace we're operating on, not we as smart e-commerce, but the whole industry, is maybe even too fast for the most dominant player that is, which is Google. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:24.960 That's for me a learning. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:34.559 There's so much going on that I feel that sometimes even these super smart people at Google it's it's too much for them. 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:43.360 And that's rather a bad thing because it's it's it might be concerning, but that's certainly a learning. 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.039 The first six months, the pace is unbelievably high. 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:47.519 Yeah. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:48.879 For sure. 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:51.519 Yeah, I mean, I I I hear you. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:12:08.240 I think maybe we've even said it before, but with here in e-commerce and e-commerce advertising, we're at the intersection of changes to search behavior and how people shop, changes to the platform. 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:10.080 Is it sending traffic your way? 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:11.600 Is it becoming a marketplace? 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:14.240 Changes to the ad campaign technology. 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:26.559 We're at like a besides software development, there's arguably no area that AI is affecting more right now than e-commerce and advertising. 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.360 And like we're at the intersection of these things and search. 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:31.120 We're at the intersection of these. 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.320 And so it is an insane change. 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:35.519 Yes. 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.080 And uh it's tough to keep up. 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:49.840 Um the silver lining, I think is it's more important than ever to have people who who don't lose oversight who who help you to guide through. 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:55.279 And I'm I'm not talking about agencies or or strategic partners per se. 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:57.679 Yes, great having them to guide you through. 00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:02.639 But I think it's a big chance for everyone working on the retailer side now. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:10.639 If if you do your job now, if you're willing to dug into the shit, man, you can become a true expert. 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:13.840 And they're more important than ever because the pace is so fast. 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.080 Yes. 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:16.480 And man, we we see this in our company, right? 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:26.320 We have people now who who said, okay, I accept the challenge, and now they are what they do with within this new AI environment is just mind-blowing. 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.799 So yes, there is a trade-off, but there's there's also an upside. 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:36.960 However, the pace is honestly speaking, I think too fast right now. 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.679 It's it's there's there's too much going on, yeah going on. 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:41.279 Yeah, it's exhausting. 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:42.559 What do you have? 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.039 A big lesson from the first half of the year. 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:47.440 Chinese e-commerce. 00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:49.519 Yeah, of course. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:53.919 Yes, yes, no, it's it's not dead, but it's uh it's regrouping. 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:56.879 Uh no, I mean, there's so many things. 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:07.200 Uh I learned so much about really in the first like the first quarter I spent learning the heck out of AI Max research. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:22.879 Um and I would say that my my lesson there is that the technology fundamentally works or and it has a reason for existing, um, but that you also need to remain critical. 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:24.480 It's fine to be critical. 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:36.720 I think you can both adopt and remain critical because yeah, the performance is not what Google will tell you it is, but that doesn't mean that it's bad tech. 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.440 I think it's it's fundamentally good technology. 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:45.759 Um and then learning about UCP in the second quarter, that's something I focused on a lot. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:52.480 And a lesson there, a big lesson is like don't try to boil the ocean. 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:52.960 Yes. 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.600 Like you need

to just take this one piece at a time. 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:03.759 This is something that you and you were talking about how fast everything's changing, but you cannot do it all at once. 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.240 And anyone who tries is just going to fail. 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:13.600 So you need to take things one step at a time, have clear priorities, a roadmap, a strategy. 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:23.519 Um, so those are definitely, and I think those are gonna be, we're gonna see those continue to unfold in the second half of the year and all through next year as well. 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:28.639 Um, these tech these new technologies like AI Max Search and UCP. 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:37.120 So I think yeah, the lesson would be try them, don't buy into the hype too much, but do try them. 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:37.759 Yes. 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:42.159 I I co-sign that, especially the the second one. 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.440 I don't know to how many decision makers I've I've talked to this year. 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.840 Uh it was a lot. 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:57.279 Um and the the the one learning I had is that there is there's this massive FOMO going on. 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:06.639 Um and and FOMO, which is kind of a bias, of course, leads to irrational thinking, irrational decision making. 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:25.519 Um and that that's what I meant with in in with all the noise going on, I think it's so important to have to have this correction layer in your decision matrix, whether it's a good blog, whether it's a good podcast, or it's it's a person in your team. 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:30.799 I I think it's really important for decision makers to to cut out the noise more than ever. 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:34.799 Uh and I think we have with with clients who do this greatly. 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:39.519 I think we have clients there there's still this FOMO going on. 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:46.799 As fast as the pace is, the good thing is it's still the core things which matter the most. 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.639 Get your data strategy right. 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:50.159 Look at their data feed. 00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:52.879 Your paid search campaigns are still bread and butter. 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.399 So there's so much going on, and feels like, oh, I don't know what to do. 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:57.919 I think there's a still aligning. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.799 It's still the core you have always been working on, which probably matter the most. 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:04.480 That's also a learning. 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:08.880 And I hope this is also a learning uh for a lot of decision makers out there. 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:10.880 It's there's so there's noise going on. 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.279 Embrace the noise, but be be able to understand what truly matters. 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:16.640 More important than ever. 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:17.440 Yeah. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.160 Yeah. 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:18.960 Yeah. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:26.640 It feels like there's sometimes there's just there's the hype people, there's the doomers or the bears, and the truth is in the middle. 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:28.160 The truth is in the middle as always. 00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:29.200 Yeah. 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:30.640 All right, teacher. 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:31.920 What what's what's next? 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.200 May I leave? 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.240 I want no you may not leave. 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:37.920 I love the no. 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:38.400 Yeah. 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:49.759 Are you are you, by the way, uh, as a dad, are you um how to say, are you rather on on this on on the continuum of being super loose and and and more the strict guy? 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:51.039 Where where are you? 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:52.720 In the middle. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:53.599 Yeah, I know. 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:55.759 Um don't be politically correct. 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.200 A little more on the strict side. 00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:57.680 Really? 00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:58.000 Yeah. 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:00.880 I'm super on the loop, super much on the loose side. 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.880 No, because so it's not fun to be strict, but someone has to do it. 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:05.359 I know. 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:07.039 And but I can't. 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:08.240 You have to. 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.799 Maybe I should maybe that that should be written on on the wall for me. 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:14.319 I'm gonna be strict with you now, Chris. 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:15.599 Okay, so I'm not allowed to go. 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.200 What what at what do you have to do? 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.880 I I think everyone knows Bart Simpson writing lines on the chalkboard. 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:23.440 Did you by the way, speaking of did you ever have to do that as a kid? 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.400 No, of course not. 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.440 I was a B student. 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:26.480 I had oh, a B student. 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:26.880 I had to. 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.400 I always behaved I was I was a nice guy. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:31.519 I had to do it. 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:32.480 I don't remember now. 00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:33.599 My crying. 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:33.920 No. 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:35.279 Why? 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:38.079 I don't I don't remember exactly, but I remember I had to do it. 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:43.920 Yeah, and I uh my mom would make me fill up like two two uh notebook pages. 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:45.359 What did you have to write? 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.359 I really don't remember but you had to do it. 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.880 Yeah, but it if I go like to a therapist or something, it'll probably I'll I'll suddenly remember again. 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:57.279 No, but um yeah, so what's your Bart Simpson chalkboard phrase? 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:00.480 I

have a very, very stupid simple one. 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.000 Be more on point. 00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:03.440 All right. 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.839 Tell tell me be on point about that. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.200 Tell me what you mean by that. 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:08.720 Uh what I mean about that. 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:21.599 I mean, I I tend to uh I have uh a great colleague, one of one of my senior sales managers, and who he he has he has an outstanding rhetorical talent, right? 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:32.960 Um and that that's strength and the weakness at the same time, because he he always has so many words he can choose from, and he tends to to not be on point. 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:48.079 Um not not be simple in your language because for for the sake of of be of building complex sentences and complex storylines, and I I I I I I fall for that uh quite quite constantly. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.799 I know it. 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.680 I'm I'm better at reflecting it and I I try to correct myself, but but I hate that so much. 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:58.480 And by the way, I think it's a maybe maybe even a product of our industry. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.920 Um the the type of language we use. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:03.839 Not necessary sometimes. 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.559 Yeah, and and you you lose buzzwords and the geners. 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:16.319 Yeah, and and and at the end of the day, I I read one of the best books I've I've I've read, actually ever, um was precisely about that. 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:19.279 Um and uh made to stick, by the way. 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:24.240 Um it you don't it doesn't have to be simple, stupid. 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:25.599 It does have to be simple. 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.839 Yeah, it's so much more powerful than than comp comp complex language. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:31.200 So be one point. 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:45.519 I you know, I I'll just say a quick, I remember like when I was in college, um I was a good writer, and I discovered with some of my courses that I had that I could abuse this. 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:45.839 Yeah. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:59.200 Because I could I could if I realized that if I wrote it well enough, I didn't have to necessarily engage with the material that much, and the professor would be like dazzled, and I would just get a high grade. 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:05.119 And you could write your round your yourself around the the actual issue, right? 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:06.319 Yes, yes. 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:19.440 And then and then I one time I had this professor brutally to my face call me out on this brutally, and they were so exactly right, and you learn from it? 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:20.960 Yeah, I don't do that anymore. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:21.440 Good. 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.799 I never did it again since. 00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:24.480 By the way, I think it's I'm not kidding. 00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:27.200 I think it's one of it's it's manipulative behavior, actually. 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:28.480 So yes, A. 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:32.640 Um and again, I think B, it it doesn't serve the co the course. 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.759 Yeah, um I really believe that. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:40.480 And I always refer to probably one of the most powerful speeches there ever was. 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:46.559 I think it was JFK when he tried to pitch the crazy idea to get some man on the moon. 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:49.200 Um listen to that. 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:54.400 Uh it it could have been the most complex shit ever, but they literally said plain words. 00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:57.119 Plain words, we want to land a man on the moon. 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.759 I'll check it to bring him back within the next 10 years. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.200 That's powerful, right? 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:01.759 Yep. 00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.160 So that's what I would like to be better with. 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:07.039 Nice. 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.480 Yeah, especially by the way. 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:09.279 Hold on. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.240 One last tangent, we'll keep going with summer school. 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:16.880 AI is so annoying about this. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.160 And Claude in particular. 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.480 Started working with Claude more recently. 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:23.279 And it's so powerful and such a useful tool. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:27.119 And it's so effing annoying the way it writes and talks. 00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:27.920 Yes. 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:30.400 And you're very performative. 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:31.599 Very performative. 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:39.599 And even the most powerful prompts with regards to be simple, be be simple, stupid. 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:50.799 By the way, I think it it it will create an kind of a negative flywheel because people use AI on a regular basis more than ever. 00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:52.000 And you learn from it. 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:57.200 I'm so paranoid that I'll start talking or writing like AI because I my exposure level is so high. 00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:57.759 Of course. 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:00.559 And I think it's like, you know, it's borderline brain rot. 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:11.119 And so what I I encourage everyone to go read books and read books that were written prior to this year of kids. 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:13.039 Man, do you know what? 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.000 Uh let let let's let's rant a bit. 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.079 Uh what just go go for it? 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:18.960 LinkedIn. 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:19.519 LinkedIn. 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:22.160 Everyone's writing with Claude. 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:22.799 It's so annoying. 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:23.839 It's it's it's annoying. 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:25.200 Everyone is perfect. 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:29.039 It's it's it's annoying, and I know so many people who are not perfect. 00:23:29.200 -->

00:23:29.759 Yeah. 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.279 And and this is not the way you write, this is not the way you communicate. 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:35.920 It's so and by the way, same for me here. 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.920 I I use it probably way too much. 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:40.079 It's it's it's not a good thing. 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:40.559 No. 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.319 And I I'm pro AI. 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:43.200 You know what I mean? 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:48.160 But it it's well the the thing is that the writing is thinking. 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:48.480 Yes. 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.559 Writing is writing fucking hard. 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:51.359 It's really hard. 00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:52.720 But it's healthy for you. 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:53.359 It's good for you. 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:53.839 For sure. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:55.200 So read and write. 00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.599 Mate, you put me on a spot now. 00:23:57.680 --> 00:23:58.559 What about you, mate? 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.160 What what you put up there? 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:01.039 Oh, sure. 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:02.319 Me, my chalkboard. 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:02.880 I'm sorry. 00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.359 It's easy. 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:04.000 Come on, man. 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.559 What is it? 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.039 Rose is a lever, not a goal. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:09.279 Ros is a lever, not a goal. 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:10.559 Ros is a lever, not a goal. 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.200 I loved that. 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:11.759 There you go. 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:12.720 I left that. 00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.880 Um we've been talking about that quite some. 00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:15.519 Yes. 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:16.559 All right, now. 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:18.160 May I go now? 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:20.720 We could do summer reading now, too. 00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:22.400 Do you ever get a summer reading list? 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:24.000 But let's do let's do. 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.920 You're you're released. 00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:26.480 All right. 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:32.559 Now you've gone on vacation to an island, but a storm washed your yacht that we talked about last episode. 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:33.519 I can't come back. 00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:34.079 It washed. 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:36.319 No, you're trapped on a desert island now. 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.759 So if you were trapped on a desert island, well, this will be a lightning round and we'll wrap it up. 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:43.119 What would you bring with you? 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.400 One ad platform. 00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:46.720 Yeah. 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:48.079 That's an easy one. 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:49.920 Chat GPD. 00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:50.480 No, okay. 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:52.960 Nah, it's not an ad platform, actually. 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:53.920 No, open AI. 00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:55.359 That's sure. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:55.519 Okay. 00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:56.160 Nah, no, no. 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:56.880 It's Google. 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:57.440 It's Google. 00:24:57.680 --> 00:24:57.759 Yes. 00:24:58.480 --> 00:24:58.960 It's Google. 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:00.000 It's Google. 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:01.759 So it's Googie. 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.240 It's Google. 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:03.039 For sure. 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:03.759 For sure. 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:05.039 Alright. 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.240 Yes. 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:07.039 No doubt. 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:07.759 Meta. 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:09.519 I'm going Meta. 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:10.559 Do you want do you want to know why? 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:11.839 Yes, tell me why. 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.039 I know Google really well. 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:19.839 If I'm going to trap, if I'll be trapped on an island with an app platform, then I want I don't know Meta as well, and I would like to learn something new. 00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:24.400 Yeah, but but look, when when I'm talking about Google, I include YouTube, of course. 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:24.640 Yeah. 00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:28.880 And man, YouTube would what would would bring some choice to me. 00:25:29.119 --> 00:25:29.599 Well, okay. 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.400 See, I have now Battle of the Shorts. 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.319 YouTube, Instagram, or TikTok. 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:35.920 Shorts, Reels, whatever. 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:36.799 Uh YouTube. 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.079 YouTube. 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:40.079 I know you're a YouTube guy. 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:40.480 Yes. 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:40.880 All right. 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.079 Instagram here. 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:43.200 No way. 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:43.759 Yeah. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:44.480 Really? 00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:44.880 Yeah. 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:52.640 I'm actually, I'm not using I I uninstalled Instagram from my phone this summer because uh again, I'm super concerned about brain rot. 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:54.160 And um yeah. 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:54.960 Fair enough. 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.440 I want to be outside and present with my family. 00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:01.920 So you didn't you didn't strike me as an Instagram guy, but yeah. 00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:02.400 It's good. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:06.400 Well, in Instagram, there are many because I lear I st I still learn things about YouTube. 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:12.640 You'll probably have like perceptions of what Instagram is like or stuff, but there's all kinds of creators and content on Instagram. 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:13.839 Oh, Instagram is great, by the way. 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:14.640 I love Instagram. 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.160 And my my very nerdy shit that I'm into is on there too. 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:19.359 So yeah. 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:20.480 Still YouTube. 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:22.160 You have to convince me. 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:22.480 All

right. 00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:23.920 But not not this time. 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:24.559 All right. 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.400 Lastly, desert you're on a desert island with one KPI. 00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:30.880 Why do I need a KPI on my desert island? 00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:34.319 It's how much water is left in my how much pressure. 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:35.759 No, no, no, no. 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:37.759 One adds KPI, right? 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.839 Or e or e-commerce KPI. 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:40.960 What is it? 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:42.480 Oh man. 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.720 Then you're done and you and you go on your summer vacation up there. 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.160 I think we talked about it. 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:52.400 Um it's it's the greatest of all time. 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.400 It's the return the net spam. 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.759 No, you're doing it. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:56.319 Yes. 00:26:56.480 --> 00:26:56.880 All right. 00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:59.200 It's it's it's not a target, it's a lever. 00:26:59.519 --> 00:26:59.680 Okay. 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:00.400 So he's got a lot of people. 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:02.880 And maybe it leverages me back to civilization. 00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:03.599 I don't know. 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:04.720 Yeah. 00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:06.160 What's yours? 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.279 I'm gonna say I'm gonna go in a way more sophisticated direction. 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:12.319 Yeah. 00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:13.920 Profit per click. 00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:15.119 Profit per per click. 00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.680 Yes, because you're on the island of intellectuals, man. 00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:21.440 This is so it's yeah. 00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:26.720 I'm a ROA scan, then you come up with why I mean it's a beta metric, but right. 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:28.240 Yeah, why yeah. 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:30.720 Listen, I'll just real real, real quick. 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:35.519 I I am a big believer in thinking about your value per click. 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.000 I think people are way too focused on cost per click. 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:42.240 I've probably gone on a rant on this podcast before to long time listeners. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.279 And value can be anything, so why not profit? 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.680 I'm there for profit per click. 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.440 I'm the rather simple guy. 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:50.240 It's Rose. 00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.359 You're you're Rose. 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:52.640 Mike was fun. 00:27:53.119 --> 00:27:54.400 And now I may go, right? 00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:59.599 And now you can now you can actually go on summer vacation as well as our listeners. 00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.519 We might have a one-week gap till new episodes come back. 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:05.759 Um, or we'll try to fill it somehow. 00:28:05.839 --> 00:28:08.240 We've got to look, but but at max one week. 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:09.920 And then we're up for the races. 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:11.920 The next 50 are ahead of us, right? 00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:12.720 Yeah, exactly. 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.400 50 more to go. 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.920 And then let's see what happens. 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:20.000 Yeah, and then we're gonna we promised ourselves we'll go on a boat. 00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.319 Yes, we didn't say what kind of boat. 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:24.000 Yeah, let's let's see. 00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.559 Let's see. 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.440 All right, Mike. 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:26.160 It was a pleasure. 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.519 Enjoy the holidays, man. 00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:29.200 Thanks everyone for listening. 00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:31.920 Wishing you a happy summer break. 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.000 And as always, this podcast is brought to you by Smarter Ecommerce. 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:40.160 You can learn more by visiting Smarter e commerce.com. 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.559 Please leave us a review, a rating, a shout out, anything, everything helps. 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:45.440 Thanks very much. 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:46.480 Enjoy your summer. 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.119 Don't get a sunburn, use sunscreen.