THE JOHN BONSIGNOR INTERVIEW with Councilman Cam Crawford (Part 7) Personalities and Politics (A) Henry Brown, Russell Fry, & Alan Clemmons의 전체 녹취록

you and thanks for those encouraging words that we seek to uh to continue that service. 00:04:50.800 --> 00:05:03.759 I know uh sometimes it's easier just to say, you know, people that talk to me, particularly some of the close friends, and said, Henry, you know, you've served that 10 years up in Congress. 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:12.160 Why don't you just come on back and spend some time at the farm and enjoy your family and play golf and do whatever things you might want to do? 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:17.360 And I said, you know, this would be the easy time to do it because it's tough up in DC now. 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:30.160 I think that people up there that doesn't spend any money like this no again and say, and then you know there's a lot of stuff that's going on that maybe doesn't associate with it at a particular way. 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:31.600 But it'd be easy. 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.720 Easy to stop and say, well, you know, this is my time. 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:41.759 In fact, this is my 28th year having served on the city council and having served in the state legislature with so many of these guys in the back. 00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:48.079 And this is my 10th year now, or after this term it'd be 10 years in Congress. 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:50.959 Well, yeah, I've got two guys here who were experts. 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:52.800 I asked y'all about two political figures. 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:54.560 We talked about Henry Brown earlier. 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.439 Y'all, you want to do you want to share some memories of Henry? 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:00.879 Because you but you worked for him and you knew him really well, and he was a great congressman. 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:02.720 I always thought he was one of the best congressmen we we had. 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.600 He's somebody I haven't had. 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:05.360 He had a great voice. 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:09.680 Henry had a nice voice, southern but very deep voice. 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:11.600 He sang in a choir tone. 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:12.480 I didn't know that. 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:14.639 Yeah, he sang in his church's choir. 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:16.560 Yeah, he had a nice voice. 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:06.639 He liked people, but he would be like a viper if you crossed him. 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:08.720 He'll sting you badly. 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:10.399 Don't cross him. 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:19.199 Because he's an old, old-type southerner that I I know marrying a southerner and being with for 63 years. 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:32.399 Uh I remember going to visit her uh in North Carolina, and her her great-grandfather, a very strong southerner, and I had to watch my step. 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.439 Because you can't cross a nice, beautiful guy. 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:41.279 Give you the he gave he gave me a watch out of his pocket because I said I liked it. 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:42.399 He gave it to me. 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:44.560 At that time

it was worth about$50. 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:47.439 Today it's about$50 over$700. 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:50.959 It's a nice golden cross watch. 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:52.399 He just gave it to me. 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:56.800 But do not cross it. 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:02.480 Oh, do not cross it because he'd give you his temper. 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.160 And you and sometimes you deserved it. 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:07.680 He was a pastor, wasn't he? 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:09.279 Yes, he was a bishop. 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:10.639 I didn't know that, man. 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:12.079 I didn't know you did that. 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:14.399 Well, Betty Sue's dad. 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:16.399 Oh, oh, I talked about Henry Brown, wasn't it? 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.160 He's talking about Betty Sue's his wife's grandfather. 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:25.040 H. 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:25.439 C. 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:26.480 Roseman. 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:27.199 Look him up. 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:28.800 The minister. 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.200 Well, he had a he had a booming voice. 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:36.559 You didn't have to have a microphone when you listen to him. 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:40.799 He he was about 6'3, he weighed about uh 290. 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:44.000 And and he was a rugged guy because he was a farmer. 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:47.600 Big, big, big hemlock uh hand. 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.240 So I my hand would swim in his hand. 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:53.519 And it was really, really good. 00:08:53.679 --> 00:09:01.759 You had to go to she had to go to Sunday, she had to go to church every Sunday and l and listen for at least four or five hours. 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.480 It wasn't one hour, and then you go out and have uh entertainment. 00:09:06.639 --> 00:09:07.039 No, no. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.320 At that time, the Southern Baptists were very strict. 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:17.519 You had to sit there and listen, and then go to uh Sunday school and then the Bible class. 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:21.679 Before you were done, you were exhausted and you went right to sleep. 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.159 Well, anyway, that's what I did. 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:37.919 Yeah, I guess you didn't have to worry much about observing the Sabbath that is about not doing it because you were so Yeah, well, you know Henry better than anyone, so if you want to m tell us some stories about Henry, it would be interesting. 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:39.919 He loved peaches and ice cream, right? 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.320 He did like peaches with ice cream. 00:09:42.720 --> 00:09:47.360 It was funny because I always heard the stories about everybody having to mash up. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:56.080 Peaches and ice cream when when he had when he had some big meeting up there and he was trying to get people on board with some idea. 00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.279 Gosh, Henry. 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:16.480 I tell you, one thing Henry kind of taught me that I and I tried to I've tried to utilize it, you know, and in the way I serve the poet. 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.080 Henry was always down to her. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:34.960 And um I think he I think he all uh I think he took steps to and I I think he and I think he genuinely cared about enhancing the area. 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:40.960 He was a congressman that that really that he did really focus on his people. 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:46.000 He didn't get too lost when he was up there. 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.200 He always had a strong connection back here. 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.120 And I think you can just kind of see that and the money that he brought home. 00:10:53.279 --> 00:11:08.080 I think he was you never really had to ask him how far along you were um securing funding for whatever project was he already kind of had it in the bank. 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:21.200 And and uh and I and I I've tried to I've I've tried to be that way, or I've I've tried to invoke that with my constituents. 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.039 And you know, I and John kind of played a role in that too. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:31.519 John helped kind of along with my dad, really kind of helped me. 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:46.480 But I th I think Henry, my dad, and John really kind of helped me focus on people and putting the other stuff aside and really trying to to serve the public. 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.320 I guess there are different ways you can go about doing it. 00:11:50.480 --> 00:12:03.039 Um one of the ways I've always put it, one of the ways Henry and John kind of emphasized to me was in the role that you have as you know, you try to route money to improve quality of life. 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.519 And I think I think Henry was really focused on that. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.759 He wasn't really so much focused on Washington and all that. 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:15.039 I think he was I think he was focused on Myrtle Beach, Georgetown, and Charleston. 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:21.120 So you know, when when I ran for Congress, it was a lot of we haven't had representation in all these years. 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.639 But the truth was, I always thought Henry Brown delivered for Rory County. 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:25.919 You were there in his office place. 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.600 Well, well, there was one person that didn't like him was Dick Witherswan. 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:30.639 W Witherman. 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:31.360 What's the name? 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:32.000 Dick, remember that? 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:33.120 Oh, Whittington. 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:35.120 Oh, that's uh Dick for the people. 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.679 Dick Whittington, yeah, I had heard, yeah, Dick Whittington. 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:55.919 Remember, we had well I remember having a big battle with him, and he uh we had uh something uh in Georgetown that uh Henry was having uh an affair, uh political rally, and so he comes running in there and he

wants to take over. 00:12:56.080 --> 00:12:58.399 And I told him to shut up and get out of here. 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:00.080 Uh Withington, yeah. 00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:02.000 He was running for everything. 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.759 He ran for uh two uh offices at one time. 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:06.960 He did, yeah. 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:10.960 I think he ran for state senate and county council at the same time. 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:11.600 Same time. 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:12.000 He did. 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:18.639 But but you had such characters that he was up against that you don't have them anymore, like uh Withington. 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.759 I started uh I started to ask him when all that was going down. 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:24.480 Well, why did you just throw in South Carolina House while you had it? 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.720 You know, the more the merrier, you know, statistically you one of them. 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:29.600 One of them. 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:34.080 I didn't realize that he had any kind of animosity with with Henry Brown, though. 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:34.879 So that's that's interesting. 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.840 Oh yes, of course he had it when we were uh when he had a rally at the Georgetown. 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.679 Henry was at a rally at Georgetown. 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.639 We're having a uh a nice time, and he comes running in there and he starts disrupting everything. 00:13:46.879 --> 00:13:54.960 Yeah, he'd c he'd come into the office and he'd he'd kind of argue with me back and forth. 00:13:55.120 --> 00:14:03.679 Of course, Henry wasn't there, and then I remember Tom Keegan would come in and we'd just kind of tag team, you know. 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.720 That way one wasn't taking the full front. 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:09.440 Oh, yeah. 00:14:09.519 --> 00:14:10.960 Well, he was all criticism. 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:14.000 You don't find many characters like that. 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:20.720 Well actually, you know, talking about Henry Brand, I guess the next successor y'all were both friends with was Russell Fry, the current. 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.039 Oh, Russell, what a great guy. 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.240 I tell you, Russell. 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:25.600 You know, Washington, D.C. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:26.639 is a funny place. 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:34.399 Things that are not controversial to the American people are some somehow strangely controversial when you get into the beltway. 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:35.679 I don't understand it. 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:42.480 Take something as fundamental uh as your right to vote and showing your identification at a polling place. 00:14:42.799 --> 00:14:43.600 This is easy. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:51.919 84% of the American people support showing your ID in order to vote, making sure that you're a citizen that can vote in our elections. 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.120 That's not controversial. 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.799 71% of Democrats also support that. 00:14:57.039 --> 00:15:04.639 So why is something like the Save America Act, which requires you to prove your citizenship, requires an ID at the polls? 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.000 Why is that controversial? 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:07.200 It shouldn't be. 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:15.679 Democrats are standing in the way of something as fundamental as our right to vote, because they don't want it. 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:16.879 And they can't explain why. 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:25.200 If you watch the word ballot of, say, Kamala Harris or any Democrat, they cannot explain why, other than to say things like, this is voter suppression. 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:26.559 That's a total myth. 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:35.120 When South Carolina adopted voter ID, Democrats said the same thing back then that this would suppress voter participation. 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:36.000 Guess what? 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.240 It actually grew voter participation. 00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:44.399 Most recently in Georgia, when they were going to do the same thing, Democrats said this was Jim Crow 2.0. 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:45.679 Guess what happened? 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.200 People voted, minorities voted in higher numbers than ever before. 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:53.600 And so this myth uh is easily disproven. 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:56.159 And it's something that the Congress should take up. 00:15:56.320 --> 00:16:03.759 The Senate should vote on the record whether they support having voter ID and citizens voting in our elections. 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:10.159 This is easy vote, and the Senate should take this up immediately and put themselves on the record. 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.960 He probably uh can tell you more stories of Russell than I can. 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:20.000 I only know him uh through Thad Viers when he was working with Thad Viers. 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:21.279 What a great guy. 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:21.759 Right. 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.600 We were so lucky to have him as a as our congressman. 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:27.120 He he's down to earth. 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.240 If you're talking about a good congressman, he's he's the one. 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:39.759 I just hope and pray that he he he goes higher in governmental office because he deserves and he has his heart and soul in government. 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.120 He's for the people. 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:43.600 And I mean you've done the whole time, eh? 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:52.480 I remember when he was going to law school and we had a little party for him when he was going off to Charleston Law School at his father's house. 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:56.480 And he was really a nice he's really a nice guy. 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:01.120 I mean, I can't you can't really I can't really say anything bad about him. 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.160 Because everything I see him is positive. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:10.960 Unlike the press, I

see everything positive in him, like the press sees everything negative in Trump. 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:13.119 He's a good kid. 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:13.759 And you were with him. 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.839 No, no, he's a nice, he's really a nice guy. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.680 And you've been a supporter since the day one. 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.240 I mean, the party office. 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.599 Who wouldn't support him? 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:22.960 He's such a nice. 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:33.359 Uh I hope uh people uh realize that we have somebody that's representing them, is really for them 100%. 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:34.799 He's not a phony. 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:38.960 Uh people just call him a phony, they're really a phony. 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:40.880 Or they're jealous of him. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.200 One of the one of the two, because he's he's not that way. 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.200 He's really, really nice. 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:53.359 And Cameron can tell you something about it, like I can't really say enough for Russell. 00:17:54.079 --> 00:18:03.279 Yeah, Russell's a dear friend of mine, and I agree with John and I think he's an excellent congressman. 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:06.559 Very proud. 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.599 He did a lot of work in the State House. 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:17.920 Opioid addiction. 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:23.119 A lot of a lot of important work for our area. 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:36.319 I think Russell's probably not probably, but he is I think he is a person that's or a congressman that's that's really focused on our area. 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:45.039 Um I just recently had an opportunity to go to Washington and um met with he and his chief of staff. 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:55.119 They were very gracious, they brought us in and talked with us and really spent a lot of time with us. 00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:10.319 Um hearing, you know, the various concerns of uh of the county and some of the things we were trying to do, and they were very, very willing to help in any way they could. 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:23.359 I just uh I I think that and that's always good to have that that level of connection with your uh elected official. 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:36.319 Uh I think he definitely fights for us and I think that he has the well-being of the entire district. 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.759 I think that he's very good focused on that. 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:49.599 And I also think that you know just naturally Russell's bringing down our person anyway. 00:19:52.480 --> 00:20:08.960 And um I think he I think he certainly um understands the needs of our area of our area, and uh I think he uh I think he sympathizes with people. 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:20.720 You know, uh I think he sees what our needs are and uh I think he's committed to try uh to doing his best to help us and so I'm very thankful that we have Russell up there working for us. 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:27.279 How would you compare him to uh Tom Rice, the former congressman that he defeated? 00:20:28.319 --> 00:20:33.839 Uh I mean you had a uh a good um read on both of them. 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:43.920 Well, because you worked for Henry, and then uh for some reason uh Tom made a mistake by not uh putting you on with him. 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.000 In my opinion, that's not what he did. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:48.720 Tom Tom was like a viper. 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:51.279 He didn't like you, he stung you. 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:57.279 And then Wendy Renzi hated me, oh, because I wrote an article about Tom. 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.200 I write an article about Tom criticizing him. 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:06.240 Just criticizing him, I didn't really realize I was really hurting his feelings. 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.960 I was telling it the way it was on some issue that I opposed him on. 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:18.319 And then I go about and ask him to pick up two tickets to his house to remote for dinner. 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:24.640 And Rengie saw me and said, I said, What did I do now? 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:31.519 She said, You're writing Tom about him so badly! And then you wanted to pick up two tickets. 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:32.960 So then Tom called me. 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.279 He said, Tom! Yes, Congressman, how do you do this to me? 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.720 I said, What'd I do now? 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:42.480 You wrote that article, I said I got it over with uh Renzi, so it's over with. 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.440 No, not with me, I said, Okay, goodbye. 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.759 Oh, is he mean to me? 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:52.880 And then from then on, Tom and I sort different sails. 00:21:53.039 --> 00:21:55.359 He was sailing one way and I was sealing another. 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.599 Well, I I just think that that that Russell's very easy to talk to. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.279 Thank you down to her. 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:14.880 And my inclination about Russell is I think that he has genuine concern for people in our area. 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.920 And in whatever way he can. 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.960 And people in Congress can't be the solutions to everything. 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:28.960 But I think in whatever way he can, I think he wants to lift up the area. 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.319 And uh so I think he's committed to that. 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.559 And um I I enjoy the the open dialogue with him. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:37.920 With Russell. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:38.960 With Russell. 00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:43.759 And with Tom Rice, you want to comment? 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:46.240 Or would I do the comment for you? 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.559 Well, Tom had his strengths. 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.559 You know, he was more of a numbers guy. 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:52.880 Right, well, let him answer. 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:54.640 Go ahead. 00:22:54.960 --> 00:23:00.160 Well, um, Tom Rice served in

Congress for 10 years. 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:03.839 Oh, but a politics. 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:06.640 I'll give you a Tom Rice story. 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:07.920 He's not gonna say nothing. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:09.759 But I'll give you Tom Rice. 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.039 You're gonna give him all platitudes when he doesn't deserve it. 00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:16.880 When Bob know what he did to him, what Rice did to him. 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.799 And look how nice he is. 00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.000 He's giving you platitudes. 00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:23.599 I would not do that. 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.079 Look, I've got a phone to tell you straight out. 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:26.640 Yes, sir. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:29.200 You want to know how my killings are here? 00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:29.680 They are. 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:30.720 You agree with me? 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:31.200 Great. 00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:32.160 If you don't, you don't. 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:32.720 That's it. 00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:34.160 If you hate me, hate me. 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.480 But let me just I'll say I'll tell y'all this, Tom Ross. 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:40.559 When Bob Dole died, Bob Dole died during um COVID. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:46.720 And I went up there and Tom Roch and his staff got me in into the rotunda. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:53.839 Uh that you know, you couldn't get in without a congressman or a staffer because Matthew College had shut the Capitol down for the public. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.599 And uh and I always appreciated that they were able to let me get in there. 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:04.240 Actually, I actually went around the rotunda with Lauren Boert, the congresswoman from uh from Colorado. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:06.640 She and I were in there at the same time. 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.480 And she is um unattractive young lady. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:14.559 Well, well, anyway, it was pretty neat to be there with with it to be a staff guy. 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:18.559 The stories about her next uh very returning. 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:21.279 She's making out with some guy. 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:25.519 What nuts they have. 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:26.079 I understand. 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:26.880 I don't understand that. 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:28.480 But she kind of liked it again. 00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:29.359 God bless her. 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.759 Yeah, and she's been, you know, a stalwart supporter of the of the president. 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:40.720 But she was there when Bob Dalton was in state, and that was kind of one of the bigger, you know, I was I was honored to get to get in there and get to do it. 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.039 And I've always appreciated that Tom Rice did that for me. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:52.880 Well, you know what, Randall, one good thing about you is you're a sweetheart, you work hard, you you uh are dedicated to your profession. 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:55.200 You're a very good

writer, by the way. 00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:55.759 Very good. 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:56.160 I don't know. 00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.799 You wrote three books, I wrote two, uh read two, another one's coming out. 00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:15.839 I don't understand how you don't get more notoriety uh in in uh in nationally as well as regionally, because you write so well, your your podcasts are good, you you uh you're a very fascinating writer. 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:22.319 You you you come up with uh very good investigating reporting, especially on Dick Nixon. 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:26.079 You are one of the foremost experts on Dick Nixon. 00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:27.279 Nobody knows that. 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:28.720 Nobody picks your brain. 00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:33.200 If they want to talk about Dick Nixon, they go to some other some other jackass. 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:35.279 Come right here. 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:45.519 You have you studied Dick Nixon, you did research on him, you talked about Lyndon Johnson, uh presidents, um Jerry Ford, uh, etc. 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:47.920 So they did a very nice job. 00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:53.759 And then you held Alan Clemens, a master of equity judge now. 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:55.279 Uh Alan, wow. 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:03.119 I I recognized an issue with point of sale early on, right after point uh point of sale became three A became wrong. 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:17.119 I was asked to participate in closing a transition with a commercial being participated with the way. 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:55.759 At first he didn't like me because I was uh outrageously blunt and forward. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:06.240 I would uh go to these Republican meetings and be outspoken, and they don't like they didn't like it at first, but I told it the way it is, and he didn't like it. 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:31.599 And I remember we had a meeting um uh one year at uh Robert Rabin was the chairman, and and uh a good friend of mine was uh Joanne Wiegan, and at that time um we were talking about uh uh your in fact your your wife wanted to throw me out of the meeting because I was not a uh committee man at that time. 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:38.559 And she said, uh, you you don't belong here, you it's only for uh committee people. 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.960 I said, listen, I was invited here, so you mind your own business. 00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:46.240 I'm gonna be here because I have something to say. 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:51.119 So at that same meeting, Joanne Wieging gets up and said, Yeah. 00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:55.759 Uh well, because Alan was uh praising Obama at that time. 00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:58.799 What a wonderful guy was Obama. 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:01.920 And Alan took exception to it. 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:13.200 Well, we might not want to go verbatim, what was said, but what was the betum is that she didn't like Obama, that's all. 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.480 So you you can't fault a person not to like somebody. 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:18.000 You know, she is people don't realize. 00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.200 But she told you she said it the way it was, that's but Joan Wigan was also. 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:22.480 That's what I wanted to say. 00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:23.680 She was the founder of the party. 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:25.839 Alan was very nice. 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.079 Uh Alan is always a sweetheart. 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:37.200 I worked with him on uh the uh uh with Israel uh for the what uh what was it? 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:38.799 Israeli sister city? 00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:40.079 The sister city, yeah. 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:44.640 Alan was always out there, he's just a big supporter of Israel. 00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:48.400 Store where we met uh uh all the time. 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.599 Alan went to Israel and made a connection with them. 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:59.920 We had a party for the Israeli delegation for the sister city, and Alan was right there, so he was he's good, he's a good guy. 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.359 He he really did work hard on that. 00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:04.480 You know, I I don't know, that was one of the last things we did. 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.519 I don't know what happened with uh that that sister city. 00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:12.880 Because, you know, they were close to the border, I believe, the one that we picked, and I hate to say that I'm sitting here. 00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.720 I want to say cesarea, but that's not meant to be. 00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:18.880 I don't think Myrtle Beach has anything to do with the sister cities anymore, do they? 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.680 Uh we're still officially tied, as far as I know. 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:28.400 You went to Israel and uh Pinamar, Argentina, Kiefley, England. 00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.920 There's a the the city in um in Toronto in Canada. 00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:33.359 Um Ireland, you were not? 00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.799 And we have Keith, Killarney, Ireland, which was done while I was there. 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:42.160 And uh and then let's see Pinot, Argentina, I think I've already mentioned, and then the city in Israel. 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:54.240 But the city in Israel, we all got together um pretty quickly, right toward the end of my term, and then of course John Rhodes and I lost, and I believe the mayor of the city in Israel lost. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:30:00.799 And I don't know whatever happened after that, but um Joan Joan Joan Grove was very involved in that. 00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.839 She was the uh city clerk, wasn't she? 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:05.839 She was a city clerk, and like my second mother. 00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:10.240 I mean, uh she was she she helped schedule all my travel and everything, but I love Miss Grove. 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:11.680 You know, she passed away earlier this year. 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:17.920 I didn't know we did a tribute episode um to her on here, but she um so you can

go back in the back catalog. 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:23.039 Wasn't she uh really uh the backbone of uh the sister she was taking care of all of that? 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:28.640 Yeah, each one of the staffers the the the upper management had something that they worked with that that was hers. 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:33.200 She did Sister Cities and uh and was really a champion of it. 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:38.000 Um and would go to the Sister Cities Big Convention, you know, then come back with all the stuff they were doing. 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:44.960 But we unfortunately had a couple of sister cities that aged out and never had any young replacement, and that was true in England. 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.039 And then Piedmont, Argentina, there were some issues because you know their system is backwards. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:58.000 When it's summer here, it's winter there, you know, and back vice versa, which made doing anything with them very difficult because their schedule was different. 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:03.920 Yeah, well, anyway, uh so that's my story, uh just half of my story. 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:11.440 It'd be fascinating uh uh to listen more to what uh Cameron has to say. 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:16.079 But you you you he's really uh But you kind of stood up for Joanne, didn't you, when all that was going on? 00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:18.079 Joanne, of course I stood up for Joanne. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:18.880 What are you joking? 00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:26.079 Yeah, well I and I appreciate that because I I at the time I told people I said, you know, she is the senior member of the party. 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:33.680 I mean, she actually signed Al Tyrrell up, who gets most of the credit for building the Republican Party in the early days, deservedly so. 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:38.799 But Joanne was a real, real Wigan, you're talking about Joanne Wieigan, yeah. 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:45.279 She was a real backbone of the of this party back when there were no Republicans here, when the when the party was Joanne Wieigan and Al Tyrell. 00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:49.279 So uh, you know, I always always liked her. 00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.799 Yeah, what about what about our friend Cameron? 00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:54.480 What do you have to say about Cameron? 00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:55.680 You heard what I had to say. 00:31:55.920 --> 00:32:03.279 Oh, he's he's been a great council member and a good friend, and uh, and but uh but you he's done an outstanding job, and he did an outstanding job for Henry Brown. 00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.160 What does the Henry won Ory County so big every time? 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.160 Well, we worked hard, and um I think it's a good idea. 00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:13.519 What are what is the key to about Alan and I would just say about Alan? 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.640 Okay, Cameron, what is the key to your success? 00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:29.039 Um just I just try to keep it simple and I just try to mind my own business. 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:47.599 And uh I I look out try to look out for the people in uh area and then um when other people need assistance, uh try to help you do it right there. 00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:53.279 When uh when another councilman or legislators need help, I do my best to help them. 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:14.400 Um I um I see some people out there um I don't want to call any names, but I do see some people out there that do a lot to try to self-promote and and all that type of thing. 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:25.119 And um that you know that might work in the short term, but in the long run I would just argue to you that it it really doesn't pay dividends. 00:33:25.279 --> 00:33:41.920 Um the best approach is to focus on the people you represent, try to help them as much as you can, and then the other folks that you work with when you can, lend a hand, try to help them. 00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:51.759 And that's really and then put your faith in Jesus when you don't know, when you're not sure, just rely on him. 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:58.000 And that's really that's really the the Well that's very nice. 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:15.599 You answered the question that people would want to know something about you, and I think they got a better read on you now of what you just said, uh which is important because people want to know something about their legislators, which they don't know. 00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:21.840 Uh they hear so many stories uh that they're not doing a job, they are doing a job. 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:33.280 And what what I can't understand is why pe uh a legislator, like for instance, uh a county councilwoman, they don't get any money at all. 00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.119 They don't get any help. 00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:49.519 They're on the gun for 24 hours, the constituents will make any kind of comment about them, yelling at them, and there's no reward, and they only make, what is it,$10,000 a year or something? 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:50.800 Legislators. 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.360 Why don't you give yourselves a raise? 00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:14.000 You you really deserve an aid to help you out because you get all of these complaints that come in every day to your office, and you have to handle every one of them, and they're expecting you to handle it for them, for you, and you have other duties that you have to take care of. 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:15.199 Why don't you have an aid? 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:16.159 Why don't you have an office? 00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.239 Why don't you have a phone instead of using your own cell phone? 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:22.320 Why don't they give you a car? 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.119 I mean, get up to date. 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:27.760 That's what people are expecting. 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:34.719 But you're afraid you're afraid they're afraid to give themselves a raise because they have to vote on it the next time. 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.639 And they're afraid

they're not going to get elected. 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:43.360 So listen, the people want to feel that they're being represented. 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:46.159 Well, give the representative what they deserve. 00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:47.840 Give them a raise. 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:49.039 Give them a raise. 00:35:49.360 --> 00:36:01.440 I will tell you, at least with county council, I can't speak for the municipalities, although I would venture to say it's it's probably similar. 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:06.159 But it would be nice to have help with constituent service. 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.199 In a in a way, it's been it's been good. 00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:13.679 If a constituent want to see you, where can they find you? 00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:14.880 Where do you have to go? 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:15.760 To your house? 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:17.119 No, they just call me. 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:19.519 They can call me and then call me or email me. 00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:22.480 You can just go to the county website and and I'm right there. 00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.400 You can call me or you can email me. 00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:34.079 The county number is 843-504-0905, or you can just email me, which is right there on the site too. 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:34.960 Crawford C. 00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:37.039 Email is what what's your email? 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.960 CrawfordC at O'Re County SC.gov. 00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:49.840 But you know what, I'll tell you this though, have been having served in local government and been friends with people in the State House, but our constituents come to us no matter where we're at. 00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:56.480 I have been caught at movie theaters, at the grocery store, I know, it's and they'll talk to you, and I don't mind it, didn't mind at all, but that is the difference. 00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:01.519 The legislators never they're able to kind of walk around in anonym anonymity and nobody messes with them. 00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:11.599 They're they're much more insulated, but but at the local level, whether it's county or municipal, you're sort of the first line of defense. 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:53.920 And the reason I say like people that come from local government, I've I've always thought they make good legislators is because at the local level you're exposed to a myriad of different problems, and people are calling you consistently about issues, and you have to work um with staff to resolve a lot of these problems, um, which uh which gives you a really good foundation when you go to a place like Columbia. 00:37:54.239 --> 00:38:04.880 And I I I think you're less intimidated by the process because I would argue to you that that local government's a little bit tougher than than state government. 00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:17.599 The interesting thing is is how much back and forth there is between state government and local government, much more so than federal government. 00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:34.000 And and so they um so local government, in my opinion, is really good training for state government, if that's what you you know if you if you want to take that next step. 00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:53.360 So um and I do agree I agree with John and the because people at the local level um because you're at ground zero, you you get a lot of inquiries about things. 00:38:53.679 --> 00:39:08.159 And when you're working full time, um it would be nice to have you know an assistant that could that could help field some of that, especially during working hours. 00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:18.000 So because a lot of times what happens is is and you know from the being you you work and then when you get off work the other job starts. 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:32.639 It either starts in the morning before you get there or or after work when you leave or on your lunch break or whatever, and you're calling people back and and then you're calling staff, connecting them with with whomever. 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:43.199 And so it would be nice to to have some additional resources there to help to help field some of those calls. 00:39:43.519 --> 00:40:14.239 I know in larger cities like you know, Los Angeles and New York and places like that in Chicago, they they they actually have staff, you know, that's I had a friend that was a Chicago City Councilman, he had an office staff in your but you ever but in a way, but in a way, not but in a way sometimes that's not good because it it can detach you from the public. 00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:16.400 So one of the good things. 00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:19.199 But you have to come back to you and tell you what's going on. 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.159 You you're you're right there to answer the question. 00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:25.760 So actually they're asking for your input. 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:36.000 You've got a guy there as an aide that's following up on it, giving you all the information, getting back to you, and you come and have the right answer for the constituent. 00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:39.760 And I would also argue that So he dismisses it, see. 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:40.719 No, no, you're right. 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:44.239 I think I'll bring it to the right. 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.719 I mean, well what I was like Bobby Harrell. 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:47.599 I tell him the same thing. 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:57.760 He said, Oh, again, would I say, why don't you give the uh your your your uh uh representatives a raise and put it in the put it in the hopper? 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:00.960 Oh, I don't want to, you know why we didn't want to do it? 00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:08.320 Because they tell me, oh, we don't want anybody to run against us, so we make the salary too much. 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:11.119 A lot of people will be drawing in to run. 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:13.360 Bobby, that's not the point of it. 00:41:13.519 --> 00:41:16.000 You were you guys are working as a tailsman. 00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:23.360 Well, I will

and they're getting only only$20,000 in the well, I will say that Bobby Harrel. 00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:27.440 When you look at the legislature, and I'm just two points I make here. 00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:37.679 In terms of the legislature, so by the way, Bobby Harrell was the speaker of the uh House of Representatives. 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:49.679 I know I know everybody gets really wound up, or the perception is the public gets round up wound up when we talk about a pay increase or whatever. 00:41:50.400 --> 00:42:06.800 But just understand that when you when you're paying a legislator ten thousand dollars a year, um what what you're really doing there, you are you're ensuring that only the elite will serve. 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:14.800 And so I while I hear arguments about uh oh they shouldn't get a pay increase or they shouldn't do this. 00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:23.119 You know, I also hear about we want grassroots, we want people, we want regular people to serve. 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:41.039 Well, you know, that that's all well and good, but it's but it's very idealistic because in the system that we currently have in South Carolina, what what we have is you have a system that ensures only the elite in most cases will serve. 00:42:41.920 --> 00:43:05.119 So how is the guy that owns the lawn care service, or how is the guy that the the small business guy that that owns the the AC business uh heating and air business, or the the guy that owns the roofing company, how can he ever afford to really do that? 00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:09.119 So and that's probably why we have so many lawyers. 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:17.440 Um in Columbia is because that's the way the system is set up. 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.559 So you can't really have your cake and eat it too. 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:39.599 You you have to either decide do we do we increase the pay there or and and and then make way for small business people in the legislature? 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:48.480 Or do we or is it more important to say or or is it more important to say No, no, no, we want to be principal and we don't want to pay them anything. 00:43:48.880 --> 00:44:02.079 Constituent service is not being uh uh uh giving its uh uh its rightful uh duties because you're not having You don't have the staff. 00:44:02.320 --> 00:44:07.440 So if you get the constituent service, they want a constituent service, they have to pay for it. 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:20.239 How how could one uh county uh maybe to the north pay somebody f sixty thousand dollars as a county county councilman and you only get ten? 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:23.440 I mean, there's a big big disparity there. 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:34.079 Uh the people would give it to you and w ha uh heartily and happily uh uh they have to be shown something. 00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:40.000 But if you don't show them anything, they don't they don't but they everybody likes their councilmen. 00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:45.199 That's why they get they get re-elected all the time because they like them. 00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:50.800 Like everybody loves you, I can tell you that because I was in your district for so many years. 00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:55.519 You anytime I talked about you, they loved you, and they said the same thing to me. 00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.719 Why don't they get more money? 00:44:58.960 --> 00:44:59.599 I don't know. 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.159 I've been asking that same question to them. 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:04.480 They're they give me the runaround. 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:27.039 So if you want to do something uh and you want to give better constituency, you want to give better service, then get do that by getting an aid, getting an office, getting a phone in your office, and let them go to your office rather than you funny around where you can meet them in some restaurant and some library and so forth. 00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:29.199 It's that's not fair. 00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:41.199 Give them a good conservative, uh rather cons constituent service, and and you'll be uh doing a great deal of uh good to the community. 00:45:41.280 --> 00:46:03.920 That's what they need, and that's what they deserve, and it should they should be getting it from their cons their uh uh public servants, and we're gonna be able to do that.