Adaptation & Beyond의 전체 녹취록

just the concept of adaptability is pretty vast. 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:35.520 And, you know, in your own life, we all you have different versions of ourselves. 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:44.240 You know, we start off, and I started off thinking I was gonna play sports maybe and become this version, and then it became clear that's not gonna happen. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.520 And so then it's like, well, who am I? 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:49.360 What version actually will it be? 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:57.439 And you know, go to college, got involved in politics and and in organizing, and started to see myself in a different light, right? 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:06.080 And then became responsible for a whole student organization and learned that some of the things that I didn't care about so much were actually pretty important. 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:09.759 And some of the things I was ignoring, I needed to pay more attention to. 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:18.879 And the version of myself that got me there started to not serve the situation I had, you know, made and created and was in, right? 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:21.199 And so it was also my own doing, right? 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:45.439 It was like, wow, this really powerful lesson of just the beauty of being able to be a part of something that is based on your values, that is cultivated and brought into existence, and then having to kind of adapt to this thing that you've created now that you're responsible for, that you wanted, but also that has its own life and that requires a different version of you, maybe to engage with that thing. 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:48.879 And so it's conceptual, this notion of adaptability. 00:03:48.960 --> 00:04:09.840 But I think it really for us and and what we're trying to talk about is in terms of future worlds and and more sustainable worlds and and and really striving for a better tomorrow, if you will, for all of us, being adaptable to these solutions that we come up with and these new offerings, I think is going to be hugely important. 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.759 And there's much to be learned and unlearned in that process. 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:26.879 You know, there's probably aspects of who we all are and the decisions we make that we may have to let go of or to rethink or to even you know reevaluate and take a different position on. 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:45.839 Um, to me, especially when you bring in the concept of the environment, you know, and just how each of our little actions can you know pile up into these larger dynamics within our own world, our own actual physical environment that could lead to our demise if we don't take care of it. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.959 So I feel a sense of urgency around this. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:05:02.240 I think there is a sense of urgency because you know, both our human systems and the environmental systems that we depend on are really you know in a state of flux right now and in a crisis. 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:12.399 And so it's an opportunity for us to uh both bring about a new world but also have to be adaptable um in many ways and do some of that unlearning. 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:12.879 Yeah. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:14.879 How's that land for you though, Sam? 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.199 I know you know you have your own experience with that. 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:27.920 Yeah, I mean, I think similarly to you, I think that sometimes our moments that prove our best ability to adapt are because we have to adapt, right? 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:33.519 And I think right now in the current stages of the AI boom, that's a lot of what we're hearing, right? 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.879 It's like, oh, these antiquated technologies adapt or die, right? 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.199 Like you've just got to figure this out and move forward. 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:40.160 So I agree with that. 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:50.480 I think some something you said though sparked a discussion for me that we've had previously around this idea of, you know, there are multiple spaces as we're building a future world, right? 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:54.480 One is the deconstruction of the current constructs, right? 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:55.519 So what are we doing? 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:07.199 We're disrupting, we're dismantling um the things that are currently existing but perpetuating a lot of harm, perpetuating disparities, things that we know are the ills in society that we want to correct for. 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.360 And then we talk about the notion of rebuilding. 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:11.519 Well, how are you using your radical imagination? 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:12.639 What are we envisioning? 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:16.720 Like, let's shoot for the stars, let's build from a place of abundance, right? 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:18.800 And how we want to be there and get there. 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:20.720 And we often talk about this, right? 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:22.480 It's like, is it the same group? 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:23.920 Is it the same group of people? 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:29.680 Does everybody have the ability to adapt from a deconstruction mindset into a building one? 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.959 And, you know, I think I'm I'm still debating this in my head. 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:33.839 I haven't landed. 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.879 I think some folks have the ability to do both. 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:43.199 And I think some folks do really well with the deconstructing and the dismantling of current structures. 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:49.519 And I think sometimes there needs to be a new energy, a new vision, a new skill set in order to build forward. 00:06:49.759 --> 00:07:10.079 And so I think adaptability still plays a role because I think, in part of what you mentioned about the things that maybe didn't matter to you before, but then had to matter to you in this new space that you're in, makes me think about one of the things that we

don't often talk about when we think about like leadership development and the ability to adapt into our environments and lead throughout. 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:19.759 Folks don't often talk about how important it is to acknowledge like the subtractive unlearning that has to happen in order to be in the space of learning and doing the new. 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.959 And that feels really relevant for me. 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:28.560 Um, and naming like not only am I pivoting, but like what mental models do I hold? 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:35.120 What are the beliefs, the practices, the behaviors that I'm doing that may be not serving into this new vision? 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:37.040 How do I unlearn those, right? 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.000 So that's still that deconstructing for me, right? 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:45.680 The dismantling of those things in order to fully lean in and build the new vision. 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:47.839 So that's what is kind of bringing up for me. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.680 And I know sometimes we've debated this in the past, and maybe it's good to share. 00:07:51.839 --> 00:08:01.680 Like, I know you feel sometimes strongly that absolutely the folks in one side can push through and do both, but also there's the reality of that distance traveled. 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.240 Yeah, and they are different skills. 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:10.399 You know, in my life and doing this work, organizing and challenging many harmful things. 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:21.920 You have to be critical, you have to build an ability to break things down, explain what's not being discussed, what's in between the lines, what is the narrative that is being suppressed. 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:30.720 And that's a certain skill set and muscle, but it's different than the muscle I find that you need when you have to create something and bring the solution. 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:31.199 Yeah. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:42.240 So it's it's like really aggressively wanting to attack the problem, but you maybe don't want to bring that same level of aggression and that same, you know, fight to the solution. 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:44.080 Into the birthing process. 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:51.360 Yeah, and that is that I like to believe that we have the potential in us to do both. 00:08:51.600 --> 00:09:05.200 I agree, but I think it requires an acknowledging and a respect for the two things being not one and the same, and you know, really challenging yourself around, well, we wanted this. 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:19.519 You know, it's and if if you think about your own house, it would be like saying you want a second bathroom, but then you get mad because there's construction and there's like discomfort to that, and then you have a second bathroom, but then you're like, Well, are we gonna use it or not? 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:21.120 You know, who gets to use it? 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:32.639 How do we you have to now it's a part of you know your reality, and it's simpler in those regards, but yet it I think it offers us a way to think about it for me in my own life. 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.360 I I used to eat pretty poorly. 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:42.480 I would eat hamburgers all the time, I would go to fast food all the time because I worked out, I played sports, I thought, oh, it's offset, it's all good. 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:50.080 And then I started learning more and growing up, being more responsible as an adult, and starting to realize, like, no, actually, uh, I don't think this is good. 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:51.679 This is actually quite unhealthy. 00:09:51.840 --> 00:10:05.919 Even though I might work out, ride my bike, or do whatever kind of exercise, there's other impacts that that behavior was having, but it was fed by this idea of who I was, and I could just eat, you know, endless hamburgers and fries, you know, just be that way. 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.759 And it was like, well, no, actually, I don't think I want to be that person anymore. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:12.879 I think I want to be a person who is a bit healthier. 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.000 It was a journey that I began to think about. 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.759 And, you know, similarly, I didn't invest in my own retirement. 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:20.720 I just was young. 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.559 I don't, I got a job, I'm working. 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.440 I always had a job. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:25.519 I felt like I would just be able to work. 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:33.039 And my uncle was like, You're you're later, when you get later to later in life, you're gonna regret that you didn't start doing some of this, you know. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.399 And I'm like, huh. 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.600 My later in life, like a retired version of myself? 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:38.399 Who is that? 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:40.480 Have I even thought about this, right? 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:46.720 That that may happen, that you know, actually, if I live long enough, you know, my situation will change. 00:10:46.799 --> 00:11:00.879 And then so unlearning some of those things that I was comfortable with about myself, that kind of those narratives about myself that helped me get to where I was trying to get to also were not gonna serve me where I was trying to go either. 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:09.440 You know, there was a shelf life and a need to kind of re-examine and unlearn, as you as you shared and as you mentioned, which I do think is important. 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:10.960 The unlearning. 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:29.919 But I think this is why all these things that we've been talking about throughout the podcast, like they're all so interconnected for me, because I think adaptability without vulnerability, without integrity, right, doesn't matter. 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:34.159 We that can be adapting for the wrong reasons to pivot towards the wrong thing. 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:41.919 This easier

that you're told to do may not be anchored in what is right and what you know would be just in order to move something forward. 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:50.000 And so I I think about the importance of all these things because part of I think the beauty of adaptability is also that this is where you're in a space. 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:58.720 If you're if you're able to be vulnerable, if you're truly being your creative genius and being innovative and coming up with ideas, you're gonna test, test, test, test, right? 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.879 And I think there's a great energy around that. 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:01.919 That's what the future needs. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.480 So it's like folks are hungry for that energy. 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:08.559 And part of that and being adaptable is you're able to fail forward, right? 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:15.679 And the vulnerability and the comfort you have to have with yourself, the personal work you have to do in order to say, oh man, this didn't work. 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.039 Okay, let's try again. 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:25.840 Let's let's change these few elements and push it forward this way and keep trying and keep trying and you fall and you get up, and you have a team helping you get up and you try again, you try again. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:28.720 And I feel like that's what the moment is requiring. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.679 I feel like that's what the all the things we're seeing, right? 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:38.240 In the world, the environmental issues, the planet is crying for us to do that and to be innovative together and to step in. 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:42.960 And if it doesn't work, don't worry, don't put it down, just adapt and come up with another thing, right? 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:50.480 And I think sometimes for me, that shows up in a way of like when everybody is marching forward and everybody is in this like rapid movement. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:53.440 Sometimes, like, my inner self is telling me pause. 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.159 And that's me being adaptable in the moment, right? 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:02.159 Listening to my instinct that's saying, like, pause for this moment, think this through, right? 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:05.759 Then calibrate your next step, figure out what's the right thing to do. 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:15.200 And sometimes it almost feels so radical to just pay attention to that inner voice and get really peaceful in the moment to really identify the right move. 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:16.159 I love that. 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:21.440 I mean, that's literally what we're going through right now with, I mean, and has been. 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:36.559 And I think it was our work, we face that with addressing racial and ethnic disparities at the community level, doing it by engaging community members who have been directly impacted, community members who are advocating, organizing, and all the decision makers together. 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.360 And people were like, You're gonna get all those people in a meeting? 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:40.960 That's that's never gonna work, right? 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:48.080 But actually, it provided the potential that none of those other more sterile environments were ever gonna get close to, you know. 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:58.399 Again, we're in this time where we see chaos everywhere, we're seeing people in crisis, absolute crisis, and that is there's no way of overstating that. 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.679 Like it is a time of crisis right now, all over the globe. 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:07.039 And yet, for us, we're saying we need to get clear about where we're trying to go. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:14.720 And that might mean in the middle of all this chaos, you gotta quiet your mind and get clear about where you're trying to go. 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:16.720 Which can feel like, what? 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.159 What do you mean right now? 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:19.840 Like that sounds crazy. 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:27.120 You know, that could be a crazy sense of like, how how would you how could we possibly stop and do that? 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:37.200 And yet, our experience in my own experience in my own life has taught me like absolutely that's when we need to be doing that, and to be clear about where we're trying to go with each other. 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.840 But how how does that feel for you when we have to like be that voice or feel like we're swimming upstream? 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:48.720 And you know, that it is a moment of also adaptability for us, I feel like, right? 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:53.600 Yeah, I feel it's funny you say swimming upstream, because yeah, I feel like we're always swimming against the current. 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:56.879 Like that's the role that we play, that's kind of where we are. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:09.279 And yet, there are these moments where I feel, let me say, I feel like I know when I'm in the right environment, when I suddenly feel I can run with my people, you know, like there's speed, there's wind beneath my wings, we're just moving. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:10.639 Um, and that feels great. 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:13.759 And that still gives me the freedom, right? 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:21.519 To know that when I have to pause, reset, pivot, uh, I know, I know in those moments to trust that, to do that. 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:27.840 And I think we talked about this in another episode where you you named it as being brave, I've named it as blind faith, right? 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:31.120 I think there are these moments where it's like you're trying to figure it out. 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:44.320 But the importance of being so comfortable with who you are and what you're doing, being anchored in your values, knowing that you're gonna do the right thing, you are pushing for this thing that is gonna serve more people than yourself. 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.320 The issue is

bigger than you, right? 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.000 You're committed to that thing. 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:55.360 And I feel like when you're truly in the in the purest spirit of that, I feel like there's very little wrongdoing. 00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:00.960 You know, the pivot, the it, the failure you fail forward, so it still feels purposeful for me. 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.440 So that that part of it doesn't stress me out. 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:12.559 I think what stresses me out is when it feels like uh, you know, I'll I'll say I think I've so we talk about our racial justice work, right? 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:20.559 And right now we're in a time where it's very anti-racial justice, or is the country more familiar reference as DEI, right? 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:22.240 Diversity, equity, inclusion. 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:28.799 And I think what we've seen is a lot of great organizations that do that work either fold, right? 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:34.559 Because resources have been drying up or increasingly difficult to obtain. 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:42.159 And so folks have had to, I think all of us in the sector have had to restructure, rethink, pivot, adjust, and adapt, right? 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.720 And those of us who can keep going, keep going. 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:49.039 Others I've seen stay true to the mission, but change how they talk about it. 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:54.559 And I think that's where we see a lot of our jurisdictional partners, where they're committed to this, they want to do that. 00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:03.840 They can't say the thing that they're trying to do if it's racial equity work or how they're thinking about services for young people and making sure everyone has what they need. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:08.720 And this is where I feel like the ability to adapt and be creative is so critically important. 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:15.839 And you see us, we're in a lot of spaces right now talking with people about radical imagination and how are you thinking about that future. 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:22.000 That future can still be that utopia that you want where all people can thrive. 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:30.240 And you may not have to name all the priority populations that you know you have to support on that journey, but it can still be front and center. 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:39.119 And I feel like that's such a good example where, you know, we and many others have had to really pivot in order to carry this torch forward for the next generation to hold. 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:39.920 Yes. 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:49.920 I mean, I remember, you know, be in the beginning of my time doing this work, everybody kind of had their lane and stayed focused on their one area. 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:55.519 And for me, that that over time it became increasingly clear that that was not gonna work. 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.000 We've got to be looking at all of this. 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:04.640 Who there's you know,

I always had this strong, clear understanding that there's nobody coming to save us. 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.319 We have to figure this out, we've got to come together. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:16.400 So if you want to address justice, you that needs to account for systems where people get their food, their health care. 00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:18.480 How does their housing work? 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:22.799 And how is all that in relationship to the actual physical environment that they live in? 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:27.920 You know, are we are they is it getting polluted because of the way that we've set all these systems up? 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:32.240 Then these systems are not necessarily working to do what they were primarily set up to do. 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.960 Never mind the the side issues that they create and all the the impacts. 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:50.640 So for for me at least personally, it's been a journey of like understanding the issues, the world that we live in, and then the work and the way it's structured, and seeing a growing gap, not a closing gap. 00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:00.559 Right, and saying, Well, wait a minute, we've got to get ahead of this, you know, and just like we did in our work, it was like, well, no, we're not just gonna work with one other entity, we're gonna bring them all together. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:12.079 You know, we're gonna we're gonna actually attempt to do this thing that everybody is saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, yet what we see in the current traditional practices is not the success that folks want. 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:17.440 And everyone will acknowledge that that these systems are not working, that has become widely understood. 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.160 And yet, who's gonna build the new thing? 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.519 Who's doing that work? 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.359 Where do we go to plug into that? 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:39.039 We feel the need to answer that question and to like step out into that space and really lean into this notion that we it is our not just opportunity, but it's really our responsibility and it's an obligation to future generations that we can make affirmatively. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:47.039 And so to me, that just feels like an opportunity that rises above and at the same time acknowledges the critical moment we're in. 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.720 It rises above it, but also acknowledges it's you can do both. 00:19:51.200 --> 00:20:00.720 We can we can try to acknowledge the chaos and the crisis that everybody's under, which should feed our motivation to be super clear about what we need to build. 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:13.839 That adaptability still is there because you're you're you're both seeing the need and the gap and saying, okay, do we stay in our lane where it's a little safer? 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:37.039 It doesn't sound like we're asking to do these crazy things of like a reimagining the world we live in or coming up with whole new infrastructures that are in balance with the nature and any in the environment, and just say, hey, yeah, we'll keep doing, let's let's talk about the next place we can work to do a set of strategies that we've already done to get a set of outcomes that we know are not gonna hit the bar that we're aiming for, but are important. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:38.960 And that's a real dilemma. 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:43.440 It's like so do some of the important work, but make time, right? 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:55.920 And that to me feels like the adaptation of the moment um that we I know you and I both have been talking with partners about this and and with you know folk who may support our work in different fashions. 00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.559 So it's been a bit of a struggle, right? 00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.519 It's not the easiest conversation to have with people, is it? 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:13.759 Absolutely, absolutely, and I think some of it is, you know, uh I'm coming back to the place of as you described in the past, that bravery, that brave space, just be brave in the moment. 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:19.119 And I think um, I think sometimes it's important to like bring it right back down to the person. 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:25.279 I think part of this whole podcast that we're doing is about unlocking human potential, right? 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:34.160 We see the potential, we know we have the answers, we know we have to show up differently, we have to work together in a different way, we have to be creative, we have to be audacious, we have to be ready. 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:40.079 And part of that for me is also um just acknowledging all the ways in which we have that control. 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:46.319 I think sometimes we can be in an environment where we don't think we can adapt or we don't have the freedom to choose to adapt. 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:52.480 And I think it's like, man, I when given this conversation, I think about all the ways in which I've had to adapt, right? 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:53.519 In my everyday life. 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:58.079 Anybody in a long term relationship, anybody that's married, you're that you adapt. 00:21:58.640 --> 00:21:58.960 Right? 00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:09.839 Like If you have children, or you have nieces and nephews, and you're caretaking, or you're looking after people, you learn to adapt your parents as they age, all the stuff, right? 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:20.880 It's like we have the ability to do this, and I think sometimes we forget who we are, like the brilliance of what we have, the power in who we are as an individual in our world. 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.720 And sometimes we go into a work environment and we forget who we are. 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:31.200 And part of what we're saying to folks is like, nah, man, this is time to be your full self, fully show up as you. 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:37.119 All those talents, all those skill sets, all that superpower, unleash it,

unleash it for the moment. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.119 Know that this will be received well. 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:41.839 This is the moment that we all need to acknowledge. 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:49.519 As you've said before, if your back is against the wall, but if all of our backs are up against this wall, that's a brand new start for everyone, right? 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:56.960 And just seizing the moment, but tapping into who we are at our core, not letting the ways of the world knock that down. 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:58.000 Exactly. 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:05.359 And I think both, yeah, the notion of being brave, you mentioned, and being open to trying somebody else's idea. 00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:05.759 Yes. 00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.079 Embracing somebody else's value. 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:08.400 Yeah. 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.079 But for a moment, maybe you you want it before we say no, and we're like, oh, that why would we even do that? 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:14.400 Right. 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.759 And unpacking that. 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:16.960 Where does that come from? 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:17.519 You know? 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:18.480 Can I jump in? 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:25.279 Because I do think this is one thing I do want to give you a shout out for this, because you know, a lot of times people ask us about our shared leadership. 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.319 How does that feel? 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.359 What's it like to share power, to share in decision making? 00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:38.079 And I think we've been doing it for years now, and there's a lot, there's a lot that I've learned, and there's a lot to share, and there's a way that we've had to be um to adapt, right? 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:39.359 In any given situation. 00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:51.039 But I do want to say, from the moment I joined the team at the Haywood Burns Institute from one of our first meetings, where if I said, maybe we could do it this way, have you guys done it like this before? 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:55.279 And your response from the jump from day one was always like, oh no, let's try it. 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.880 Let's try, let's try, let's try. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:02.559 And I remember thinking every idea I had that I put in the room, you were always open to just trying it out. 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:04.319 Let's see, sure, let's do it. 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:10.160 And it would, it actually stood out so much to me because I think I had and James was like that too, right? 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:17.039 And we, you know, we always shout out James Bell, uh, we miss him, our colleague, our friend, our founder of the organization. 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:18.799 Both of you had that spirit though. 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:34.559 And I felt like as a new person coming into the space, while I wasn't totally new, but I was new in that context, it was so refreshing to see folks that were always open to a new idea, because most of the

places I had been prior to that, folks weren't. 00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:46.400 They they weren't willing to try something new, they didn't want to deviate from what maybe worked already or what was getting a decent result, or because they were used to it and because they thought the system worked in that particular way, right? 00:24:46.480 --> 00:24:56.319 And I felt like it just when I knew when I mentioned before, when you can run with your people, it was one of those spaces where I felt, oh wow, we are truly open. 00:24:56.480 --> 00:24:59.200 We're open to test, to learn, to try. 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:02.799 And that I feel like for me, that's food for the soul. 00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.400 It's a value, right? 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.880 And it's like when you live that out, the universe provides gems. 00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:16.000 I mean, think of all the things we've done that you've brought to the table as a leader for the BI, for our organization. 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:32.880 And it's like, yeah, those are each one of those is our gems that if you open yourself up to that and you allow for that space, you have no idea what somebody might bring, you know, and it's it's really has all I've learned that over and over, and I do uh genuinely value that. 00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:44.160 And so, and at the same time, like I have had I I've had to learn to listen and have a little conversation in my head of like, why am I tripping about what this person is saying? 00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:44.559 Right? 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.000 But it's not always easy. 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:48.880 Sometimes you're like, I don't, I don't know. 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:50.640 Uh and it's like, wait, just calm. 00:25:50.799 --> 00:26:03.359 Yeah, and it's like a little round table of voices in my head that I'm like, hey, I'm totally picturing like the little devil and the little angel that you should it's like more like four or five of them those days, and they all have different opinions. 00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:05.039 It's like a round table twice. 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:09.519 Yeah, they're having a debate up there, and it's like, well, wait a minute, you need to calm down. 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:14.880 You haven't even finished listening before you started, you know, rattling off your, you know, and it's like, okay. 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:23.920 And like, I've had doing this work a lot of chances to kind of sit with myself and say, like, well, why am I why am I tripping about this? 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:30.400 You know, and be curious, yeah, be curious about that rather than just go with it, you know. 00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:30.720 Right. 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:32.160 Like, well, I don't like that. 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:33.519 Well, for what reason? 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.400 You know what I mean? 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:45.599 And doing work with community folks all across the country, I mean, you get plenty of opportunities to roll your eyes at something

because it sounds crazy or somebody hasn't thought it all the way through, or whatever. 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:55.119 And yet, each time I was I started realizing that, well, I'm hearing so many threads that are like weaving this picture. 00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:02.240 It it also fueled for me the notion that we don't it you don't have to have it all perfectly baked out. 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:10.079 You don't have to have a vision totally perfectly everyone just needs to hear from each other because you'll fill it in. 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:15.279 I think the more we hear from each other about our vision, we we're all talking about something very similar. 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:22.880 And so learning for me to like calm my the voices in my head that wanted to be like, nah, that's crazy. 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:31.359 And it was like, actually, hold up, you know, listen, just take that in, you know, has really and then you can start seeing more and more of these connections. 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:36.640 Um, and it makes it more real what we could possibly do and the potential that we have, you know. 00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:42.319 So it's fueled that that practice within myself because I'm not a naturally patient person. 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:55.440 You don't say I had to I and I constantly have to work on that, you know, and so it's important to know these things about ourselves and like go in the lab with yourself and work on the thing, right? 00:27:55.519 --> 00:27:59.920 And you may not be perfect at it, but that's that balance, you know. 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:21.200 Yeah, you know what this is kind of reminding me of wow, and I haven't thought about this wow in a long time, but you know, at some of my time in a national philanthropy, and we had this, you know, huge portfolio of capacity building and strengthening the field, and what it looked like to support all these organizations doing really important work. 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:32.240 And oftentimes, as we know, a foundation may have a priority, and their grantees are kind of charged with delivering on that priority, and everybody kind of marches in order for that, right? 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:39.920 And I remember being at this meeting, we were actually on the West Coast, and I think I came to visit you and James while I was there, actually. 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:46.400 And it was this uh room full of stakeholders and folks who had been working on this stuff for like 20 years, right? 00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:53.039 And there was this hypothesis that was being tested around leadership development and the vitality of nonprofit organizations. 00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:58.559 And one of the groups actually stood up and said, it actually failed. 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:08.559 Like this experiment that we had, this thing we had been testing that we had 20 years of data on, there was this moment where the person stood up and was just told the truth. 00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.480 Like this thing had failed. 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.480 And I'll tell you, I felt dread in the moment for this person. 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:17.599 I didn't know how this was going to impact the meeting. 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:19.440 I was relatively new in my position. 00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:26.480 I was there with a vice president of this foundation who had really spearheaded this work for the last 20 years. 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:31.279 When I tell you, this person's reaction was excitement. 00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:33.519 It floored me. 00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:38.480 She was excited to hear that they had 20 years of information and it failed. 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.720 She got excited about the new possibility to test something different. 00:29:42.960 --> 00:30:15.680 As soon as that was the reaction, when I tell you the creative ideas that started flying around this room, the innovation that you could see taking shape, all because this leader in this moment didn't shy away from the reality, didn't defend a hypothesis that was proven to not be rendering the results, leaned into it completely, embraced it, and got excited about the possibilities now of launching so many new things that we could study, test, and try to strengthen the field, to strengthen the work that we cared so much about. 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:25.680 Man, it was one of those moments that I felt like so grateful to be witness to because it was such a strong lesson for me to always lean in to the thing, right? 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:36.559 If you keep the thing, the eyes on the prize, the North Star, the thing that you're trying to achieve, no matter what happens along that way, you're gonna always try to do better to get to that result. 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:54.960 And I just felt it was such a beautiful example of where I saw this immediately go to scale from like one person saying a thing that I'm sure showed her vulnerability in the moment to even state it, but that then sparked what I saw is the next movement for the next 10 years of the work. 00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:09.680 It's you it sounds like it, like it was an instantaneous moment where the energy spread like all across the room and opened it up, which speaks to the notion you said earlier about like really finding being with people who are embracing it. 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:13.519 And I think because we're social creatures, we're social beings. 00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:20.079 And so the power to together take on something bigger than ourselves, I think is huge. 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:43.680 I mean, it's way more empowering to be in a space where actually people are leaning into that, and you don't if there isn't this like immediate knee-jerk reaction of fear or rejection or you know, just even questioning why would we do that, you know, which we just want two hours to do radical imagination, and people are like, ah, that's a lot of time, you know. 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:45.200 Why do we need to spend that much time?

00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:49.599 And we're like, uh, because we should be spending years doing this, not two hours. 00:31:50.079 --> 00:32:00.160 But I think about LA and just the work to put that vision together, all these different people, all these different contradictions and and all these different, you know, perspectives. 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:10.880 And then the department launches, and now you there's this whole sense of like, is the department still ours if as a community person, and do we still have that ownership? 00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:12.720 Does it become us versus them? 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:17.839 And I've seen folk challenge each other on let's not fall into that dynamic. 00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:30.000 And I've seen it spread that way where it doesn't, it's not just that light switch because we're climbing a big mountain and still there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of negativity, there's a lot of systems of punishment and harm. 00:32:30.240 --> 00:32:32.400 There's still a lot of abuse happening, right? 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:36.079 So there's still these things that people need to account for and react to. 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:41.440 And at the same time, we're trying to cultivate our little baby that we just you know brought into life. 00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:44.799 And how do we do both of these things together? 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:55.759 It may not always be that light switch, but I've seen it almost like this like people spreading still, that energy spreading in the room of like, whoa, that's not us versus them. 00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:58.559 We're all on the same team, we have different roles. 00:32:59.119 --> 00:33:08.400 You know, and I've seen that happen in community where folk were organizing to shut down a facility while other groups are going in there providing services. 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.759 Both both activities are needed, but they're different. 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:20.880 And without some analysis and some care, they could fall into being at odds with each other, which is really a shame. 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.480 And so that for me has always stayed with me. 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:35.119 Um, and then as we think about now creating and building, you know, it's like it's inviting the critical person to think about the solution, right? 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:51.279 So not wanting to shut them down because they have such a strong critical muscle and skill set, but inviting them to like take that and now can you leap over and think about with all that awareness of the problem, what might you propose? 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:57.279 Yeah, and I think you're naming too the things when we're saying, Oh, we should be at odds, but we don't need to be at odds. 00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.680 That's choosing the unlearning part too, right? 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:09.199 I'm gonna reject this part of how we've usually played this game, and we're gonna redesign this to be something better where we all benefit and we get to a better result. 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:15.360 And I think the importance of what you're saying too is uh getting folks to remember adaptability is ongoing, right? 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:23.760 Adapt, fail or or succeed, adapt, proceed, be innovative, adapt, be innovative, adapt, be innovative, right? 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:33.519 It's like this constant thing that I think sometimes the disillusion is thinking, oh, if I if I adapt in this hard moment, then we're all good and the work is done. 00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:35.440 And it's like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:40.559 It's like that marriage, it's like that long relationship, it's like being a parent, it's like looking after your parent. 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.840 It's these things, right? 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:51.679 That you're gonna constantly evolve, you're gonna constantly show up to meet the moment the way you have to be, and just bring your best self to each iteration of you in that moment. 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:54.800 And that's future on deck. 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:08.400 We recognize what a privilege it is to share this time and space with you all as we consider our limitless potential to build a better future for this world. 00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:13.119 We would like to thank our listeners for your support, and thank you to our team and producers. 00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:22.559 There is a bright future on deck, and we hope this podcast is a reminder that you all have a meaningful part in a great responsibility and building. 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.880 It's the opportunity of a lifetime. 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.639 You can download Future on Deck wherever you get your podcast. 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:34.079 Be sure to like and subscribe and leave a comment to us about your own vision for the future. 00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:35.679 Help us get the word out. 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:37.760 So if you're new here, come on in. 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:40.239 This is a space where we all belong. 00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:48.159 Hey, it's Sam. 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:55.920 In case you missed it, our documentary Youth Justice Reimagined, a story of community innovation and collaboration, is out now. 00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:00.719 If you've been moved by the conversations on this podcast, this film really brings it all to life. 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:09.440 You'll hear directly from young people and advocates who are reimagining youth justice in Los Angeles and building the Department of Youth Development from the ground up. 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:14.320 It's powerful, it's honest, and it shows what's possible when we lead with our humanity. 00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:17.679 Head to our website or check the link in the show notes to watch. 00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:21.039 After you do, be sure to come back and tell us what's really stayed with you. 00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:22.880 It's critical to our practice.