129: Eric Newcomer, Ex-Bloomberg Reporter, Almost Didn’t Quit. Then He Built a Media Empire의 전체 녹취록

so excited to have you. 00:01:53.519 --> 00:01:54.239 I'm thrilled to be here. 00:01:54.560 --> 00:02:01.840 I'm so happy I finally got the big fish, Eric Newcomer, because I've been dying to like sit you down and ask you all these questions because you're like living the dream. 00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:03.359 You're a reporter of the information. 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:11.759 You spent six years at Bloomberg, and then you launched your own, I guess, I venture capital newsletter, let's say podcast, a media empire. 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:17.039 And I'm so curious, like, at what point did you see yourself as an entrepreneur as opposed to a journalist? 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:18.080 That's a great question. 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:25.759 Uh it's funny to be on a the assumption that I'm a grown-up here, or kind of like made it is a question all of it, but thrilled to be here. 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:30.240 Um, you know, I'd been at Bloomberg six years in the middle of the pandemic. 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.960 Pandemic was the easiest time to quit a job ever. 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:37.840 You know, you're not in the sort of the cult of the newsroom, the office anymore. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.879 Um, you know, obviously it's a scary time, but you're not getting the benefit of a company in the same way. 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.840 So in 2020, I quit to start the Substack. 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:52.080 And, you know, part of it was wanting to have my own business and to explore, but some of it was just wanting to write directly for Silicon Valley. 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:53.840 You know, it was a one-man thing. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:55.840 So it didn't really feel like a business. 00:02:56.080 --> 00:03:04.400 And then two years in was generating enough income that it felt like, okay, should bring on a business person, I thought, to help with growth marketing. 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:06.639 Then it turned out we stumbled into events. 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:11.199 And so you sort of, I don't know, wake up one day and you're like, I guess it's undeniably a business. 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:19.520 Now I have four full-time employees besides myself and a slew of contractors and companies that we work with that make it all happen. 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:24.879 And so certainly it is a business today, but I don't know if I could put a date on it that that's the date that I accept it. 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:28.240 But you know, you hire an employee and it starts to feel like a real business. 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:30.000 Yeah, I could imagine that actually, right? 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:31.360 But it starts like it was an evolution. 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:38.400 And it sounds like you just quit to start a subsect, but I have to say, I can understand that you said it's easy to quit because you're not in the cult of the office. 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:39.199 That makes sense to me. 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.719 But quitting a job, a secure job, even like our great

media job. 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:44.000 Oh, yeah, I was scared. 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:48.400 Literally, like I went with my editor to quit and I did not. 00:03:48.639 --> 00:03:50.800 And my wife had to be like, You're supposed to quit. 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:52.000 Like, you're quitting today. 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:52.879 Like, do it. 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:57.599 So, you know, I mean, I rationalized, like, what order should I tell my bosses? 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:03.840 And you know, I started, and then once I did it, I, you know, I'm very diligent, like ripped the band-aid off person and called like everybody. 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:05.520 I was like, I'm quitting, like quitting today. 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.560 But yeah, I chickened out on the first call that I could have done it. 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:13.520 And because you're like, oh, if I'm quitting, I should know what day my newsletter is gonna launch. 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:14.240 And I didn't know that. 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.959 You can come up with any story of why not today. 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:21.680 Um, and it feels like, oh man, you know, it's amazing how much words are really powerful. 00:04:21.759 --> 00:04:24.160 It's like you declare you quit and you have quit. 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:25.839 You know, it's like that is the act. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.639 Yeah, but it's scary, but you have to take the leap, you know. 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:29.120 Yeah. 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:30.800 Well, I mean, maybe I've taken the leap. 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.079 I think I mean you took the leap. 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:37.040 I guess I have so many questions, but I just want to follow up what you said about like the declaration I quit. 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:38.000 That is so true. 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.439 There's such a difference between I'm gonna quit and I quit. 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:41.839 Right. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:42.000 Right. 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:42.879 It's done. 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:44.000 You know, it's declarative. 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.560 They know it's, you know, and then it's happened. 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.319 It's like you've thrown your hat over the fence and now you gotta like jump into the fence. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:05:01.680 I was gonna ask you if the people in your life were supportive, because you know, parents have a vested interest, you know, spouses, but it sounds like your wife was supportive and was really pushing you to kind of live your dream and live your truth. 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.600 But what kinds of discussions did you have at home to make sure this is gonna be financially viable? 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:07.360 Yeah, she's also in media. 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:12.480 I think at the time she was at the New Yorker, she's a documentary filmmaker, so she's also independent. 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.759 I think I went first and then she went next. 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:19.199 So it was helping us both move, I guess, in the right direction. 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:20.639 I mean, she was instrumental. 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.439 We were just dating at the time that was very serious. 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:28.720 You know, I'd like fantasized of, oh, I should save local news, I should do XYZ, you know. 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:34.000 I'd come up with, you know, trying to come up with all these different ideas, and then at some point she's just like, what can you actually do? 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:38.800 You know, and I was like, oh, I dominate like startups in venture capital, like write a newsletter. 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:39.920 It was very straightforward. 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:45.120 Like when it was like, what can what's the realistic, like bold but thing you could actually do that's next step? 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:47.920 It was like right there in front of you, and you can overcomplicate it. 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:56.240 So she was key in getting me to like, you know, certainly tolerating a fair bit of like dreaming and endless ambition, but then at some point it was like, all right, what's the actual thing? 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.079 And then it was like very clear. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:01.040 Um, and then yeah, being supportive that I should do it. 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:08.959 Substack had this pro program where they were offering reporters like a guaranteed salary, and they did not offer me that program. 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:20.079 They offered me, you know, I don't I forget if it was like 15k or something, some sort of like loan, you know, it didn't seem like enough money to make it worth like having a contractual relationship with them, so then I didn't take it. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:23.839 So there's a lot of gaming out, like, oh, how much money do you think I'll make enough? 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:35.120 And you know, I was very fortunate that my launch was sort of received fairly positively, and it was pretty clear in the first, I don't know, six months certainly that I was gonna be doing about at least as well as Bloomberg. 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:41.519 So I, you know, one of my takeaways, it's hard for anyone to learn from necessarily is like it's great to have tailwinds. 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:43.040 You know, I launched at the perfect time. 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:50.079 I launched the newsletter when everybody wanted digital connection and people were really eager to sign up to newsletters. 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:57.279 And so, yeah, I, you know, had the relationships and I'm skilled and everything, but it was also a great time to launch the newsletter. 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:04.319 And then, as I'm sure we'll talk about, I later go into events, and that was when everybody was coming back from the pandemic and early in the AI boom. 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:10.240 And so doing these things, you know, when the culture and the moment is right certainly makes it a lot easier. 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:11.920 Um, but couldn't have

done it without my wife. 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:12.959 Oh, that's so nice. 00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:17.120 And that her and her support and whatnot, and kind of the feeling of like it's gonna be okay. 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.439 I think that's so important in a partnership, obviously. 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:25.600 And I think that, you know, entrepreneurs make a mistake if they don't think that they're like bringing the whole family into like whatever the venture it is. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:26.000 Yeah. 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.079 But I do want to talk about that, about events, because you said you launched at the perfect time. 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.079 Great, where everyone was like focused on digital. 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:33.360 That was when Clubhouse was big. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.079 Remember those days? 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:34.720 Exactly. 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:41.199 Yeah, and also your topic, venture capital and startups, that has that really had a lot of cultural awareness at the time. 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:47.600 I'm curious how you then moved into events because was that something that was like people were clamoring for? 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.600 Or was that like, well, I guess I'm gonna be a media company, I guess I have to do events. 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.279 The true, honest to God reason is I am based in New York. 00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:01.040 I was having my bachelor party to get married to my wife, Sarah Joe, in uh the Bay Area. 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.240 My friends had a beautiful office in Hayes Valley. 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:08.079 They're calling it Cerebral Valley for a brief moment in time, reflecting the AI boom. 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.480 And so they're like, we have this great office, expense your flights, make it a business, you know, trip. 00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:14.160 Do we'll do like a half day event, you know? 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:15.839 It's like we'll do a little thing in our office. 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:25.040 And so then I started texting, you know, people in my Rolodex, and we got literally within like 30 minutes, I had partners at like Benchmark and Kleiner Perkins on board to speak. 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.720 We got the CEO of Stability AI, which was like infamous at the time. 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:36.240 Later, we got like Daniela, the co-founder of Anthropic, to speak, the president, and Ollie Goatze, uh, the CEO of Databricks book. 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:41.679 So so it was just like, but right in the beginning, I started texting people, and it's like, oh, there's like tons of enthusiasm for this. 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:47.039 And so what started off as like we'll do a half day event turned into we're gonna do a full-day event. 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:48.799 We, you know, had real sponsors. 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:55.919 I think Samsung was like our top sponsor, and uh we hosted the you know VIP dinner with like Greylock. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.480 And so it was like off to the races right from the beginning. 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:09.039 I was literally like shushing co-to partners at that event because it was like an open office, you know, and they're like somebody at one of the big public investment firms said he put a billion dollars into NVIDIA after that event. 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:14.000 Allie at Databricks met Naveen Route Mosaic ML, which he acquired for$1.3 billion. 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:18.480 So there was like, you know, you feel like people talk about finding like, I guess, product market fit. 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:20.639 It's like, oh man, the world wants this. 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:22.559 Like, I have the relationships to get it. 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:25.759 We clearly see something that not everybody has picked up on. 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:36.720 And so having this sort of low-risk way to do it, where it's like we have a free venue basically to put it on, made it made it so easy to see, and then really leaned in once there was reception. 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:44.799 And then, you know, we did a second event at a real venue later that year because we were like, we're not even gonna wait a year to do this again because the energy is so high. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:45.840 The energy is so high. 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:46.240 I love that. 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.320 It's a bachelor party, but with sessions. 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:48.879 Exactly. 00:09:49.039 --> 00:10:00.720 Well, the bachelor party, you know, I forget which or I think we did the event and then the bachelor party, which hopefully then I was like, okay, we're done with the uh the work part, but yeah, then before the women with bikinis or whatever come in. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.200 It was a I don't know, Sonoma. 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.000 But yeah, it was not not yeah, it was very chill. 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:06.320 Right. 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.080 No, I'm sure it wasn't that kind of bachelor party. 00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:14.639 But that's so funny that, like, I what I love about that is that like you jump off the energy, and that's a really organic story, right? 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:17.279 That like you're gonna go do this anyway, and your friends have this idea. 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:21.440 I know that you are a reporter, obviously a media personality. 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.879 I'm positive you had those relationships because of that. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:33.440 But if somebody is a founder who wants to even just have an event, not like as a business, but just like to bring people together for all their reasons. 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:37.120 And you know, we're talking about IRL these days, you know, post-pandemic and in the world of AI. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.279 What advice do you have for people to bring to be a convener of people? 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.799 I think really knowing who the event is for, you know. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:47.200 I don't do like live podcasts, for instance.

00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.960 I'm somewhat well known, but it's not really framed as like come see Eric. 00:10:51.039 --> 00:10:51.679 You know what I mean? 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.480 It's like this is an event for like AI insiders. 00:10:54.559 --> 00:11:02.799 We know that he's gonna make sure it's like he has a good sense of who's the ultra like startup insider, and so he can get startup founders, investors, some media there. 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.960 And so really knowing who the event's for, who's supposed to be there. 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:12.559 I think that is key instead of just saying, like, uh I don't know, we'll sort of see who's interested. 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:20.639 I do think having really strong speakers is a way to convey that an event is legit beyond sort of your own pull. 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:25.120 So it's like if you can get speakers that are people want to hear from, that certainly helps. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:25.919 But it's hard. 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:41.919 I mean, I do think really finding an area that is where there's an unmet need, you know, it's like having the event, building like even our other events now, you know, we're doing an event September 29th in San Francisco called Machine Earning that's like AI, commerce, and fintech. 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:54.240 And really, it's like I have this feeling that like agents are gonna unlock the ability to like spend money online and we're gonna enter this crazy period where it's like you're just like deputizing um some agent to go off and do your shopping for you. 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:59.039 And that's gonna be like a crazy world that's gonna require a lot of interesting financial architecture. 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:02.879 And so it's like, okay, that's something we're excited about ahead of everybody else. 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.519 So like let's build that before they're really events focused on that topic. 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:14.080 And so finding an unmet need in a world where there, you know, a lot of people want to put on events is certainly one way to stand out. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:15.519 That's a really good point. 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:23.360 But Eric, I think what you're bringing up from me is, you know, it's like you started your Substack at the exact right time, you started doing events at the exact right time. 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:28.720 Now you're kind of thinking ahead about this, you know, what it's gonna be like for every agent to have someone else's credit card. 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:30.480 That's gonna be bedlam, obviously. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:30.960 Right. 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.360 And so you're gonna sort of draw people together to that. 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:34.720 I think I have two questions. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:40.639 What do you think hones your intuition so that you can have a knack for kind of seeing a few months ahead? 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.399 And how do you find the time? 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:46.080 Because obviously, whatever you're doing is about carving out some time to think about it. 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:47.840 So, how do you think about those two ideas? 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.200 Like, how do you hone your intuition? 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:50.480 I try to listen to people. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:13:03.759 My favorite column is like, oh, I talk to smart people who are in the mix and wrote, I mean, you know, attribute stuff or just like really have a sense that I'm predicting something because this is a sort of view that sort of smart people hold. 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:05.919 You know, I am a reporter at my core. 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:14.000 So I think the closer I am to what exciting people in Silicon Valley are doing and where their energy is, um, then we can match that. 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:21.120 So I'm not necessarily like the person going out and I don't know, sitting in the forest and like coming up with these ideas from first principle. 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:28.159 I'm like very much like a social thinker trying to understand where ideas are getting socialized early on and getting a read on. 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:40.960 And then recognizing, like, oh, these are people with the track record, they're people that people are listening to, whatever, or just like having a sense of where interesting early ideas are coming from and really listening is definitely like a key part of my success. 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:42.399 Finding the time, I don't know. 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.720 I'm very like chaotic, follow my energy. 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:48.480 Like, I'm really at my best where it's, you know, oh man, like this is happening. 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.240 Like wins beget wins for me. 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.480 Like when I'm up and like someone says yes, then I'm like, oh, I'm king of the world. 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:55.919 Like, I'll text 10 other people. 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:11.600 So it's like, I really think finding those moments where it's like high energy, believe in myself, you know, have a win, like, then it's like, oh, I can take endless risk in that moment and leaning into those moments, and then I, like everybody, can struggle in the uh the slog and the wilderness. 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.080 And I'm pretty bad at doing the same thing again, which is like a strength and a weakness. 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:26.799 You know, it's like I want to reinvent the wheel, I want to feel like it's novel for my own energy, which can keep us sort of current and fresh, but then it can make it hard for me to just run a successful playbook. 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.840 It's like this story works, like just do it, you know. 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:47.840 And in some ways, that is why you build a team, or at least one of the many reasons I would build a team, I can have these sort of fun new ideas and then try to build a little bit more of a system where people can execute on it so I still get to chase like a

next fun thing that could be another opportunity for right, which then gives you energy to kind of keep going. 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:48.879 That kind of fuels you. 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:49.919 Yeah, no, that's great. 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:51.200 Well, let's talk about your team. 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:58.720 When we met, you didn't have anybody, and then I remember we saw each other at one of these events, and you told me, Oh, I just hired my first person. 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:00.480 You know, oh, that's so exciting. 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.399 You know, like always building an empire. 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:03.919 And now you've got four people. 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:05.120 What was that journey like? 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:10.720 Because it's really hard to hire your first person, especially again, you in some ways you're a solopreneur, right? 00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:14.240 And you know, still kind of like writing this sub stack and this all is evolved around you. 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.639 What was it like to hire that first person and what were you looking for? 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.919 And how do you think about hiring now? 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:18.559 It's hard. 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.440 I know nobody wants to believe it, but I feel like I got really lucky. 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:29.200 You know, I put out the job, certainly have reach, and so I think it probably got around a little bit more than some job postings do. 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.519 I mean, the job was for a chief of staff. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.919 The person I hired, he still works for me. 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.799 Now he's my business lead, so he's really grown with the organization. 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:38.159 His name is Riley. 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:43.279 He's pretty well known among our network at this point because he's sort of a key gatekeeper for newcomer. 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:45.759 And um, you know, he didn't end up being my chief of staff. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.840 Like he wrote me a memo about the sort of influencer opportunity. 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:55.120 So one thing that I think really stood out was this is someone who believes in the thesis of what I'm doing. 00:15:55.200 --> 00:16:00.480 Even though I I think if we like took inventory of his advice in the memo, I don't think that's what we did. 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:08.000 I don't think either of us saw that it was gonna become an events business, but he definitely saw the opportunity of sort of influencer-headed businesses. 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:17.600 He'd also been in pretty early stage startups, so I could tell this was somebody who has like got the risk of like, you know, this is not gonna be a structured work environment. 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:29.360 And then he was willing to take a lot of upside, like literally his compensation was largely, you know, he had a normal salary, but then had a lot of sort of performance bonuses based on how the business did. 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:34.399 And so then he was like heavily invested in actually like figuring it out and has grown up with the business. 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.600 And I think, you know, giving him time to learn and really understand. 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:49.840 I think one thing I way underestimated before I started working with people was just how much people learn and grow and like improve, and they figure out how you want to do things and how things work, and they learn their own lessons. 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:58.240 And you know, he really has learned a bunch of new skills doing this, and it's really always satisfying to watch people learn and grow as part of a company. 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:05.680 It sounds trite, like I would have rolled my eyes, I think, if I said that as a reporter before, but it is, you know, one of the satisfying things of building a business. 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:06.160 Totally. 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:14.799 Also, it's so I mean, I hear what you're saying, and actually, it sounds trite until you're in the seat and you're experiencing it, and you're like, oh, this is why people say that. 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:16.720 It sounds trite, but it feels real. 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:17.119 Right. 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:17.519 Yeah. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:19.680 But what about onboarding a new person? 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:21.839 Because again, you were a reporter. 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.359 I can't think that you had so much management, you know, experience. 00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:30.240 I'm not a process person and I'm not really aspiring to be a manager. 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:32.799 So I don't know, maybe don't learn from us. 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:34.640 I think, you know, it's a remote business. 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:39.519 I mean, one of the appealing things to Riley when he first joined is like he would go skiing sometimes at four o'clock. 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:43.359 He was living in like Jackson, you know, it's definitely a loose work environment. 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:44.559 He's moved to New York. 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.359 I live in New York. 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.519 Now he goes into a we work three days a week. 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.680 We all bring everybody in on Wednesdays. 00:17:49.759 --> 00:18:00.880 So I do think having, even for a pretty like remote business where flexibility is like one of the selling points, you know, having sort of convening moments so people get the context is really valuable. 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:08.079 I think, you know, now that we're an event, you know, we have these events, like those are moments where we're all sort of working together, building towards things. 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:18.720 But honestly, you know, one of our newer employees basically came in on one of those Wednesdays, and I'm sure, you know, the sort of accountable, responsible, informed, whatever chart. 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.640 I'd literally never seen one in my life.

00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:26.319 You know, it's like reporter is the most like lone wolf, you know, you work with people on a story, but it's a fairly lone wolf job. 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.319 I was like, never seen this in my life. 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:34.400 And so we did the exercise, and it was super helpful for them to sort of know, all right, what am I on the hook for or not? 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:40.160 And so hiring the type of people who know it's like a small company, we're gonna have to figure out how we all know who owns what. 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:41.119 That was super helpful. 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:41.519 Right. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:46.079 So can you just give a little more context on the racy chart and kind of your own personal epiphany on it? 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:52.160 Yeah, I mean, it's sort of not just an exercise, but literally like if we don't send out speaker invitations, like whose fault is that? 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:53.519 Who needs to be told what? 00:18:53.680 --> 00:18:59.839 Um, and I think, you know, one of the things that stood out to me as the boss, as it was almost an exercise in me not taking them on. 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:09.680 You know, it's like, oh, I'm trying to have other people take accountability for these, even if that means they need to sort of come to me and say, Eric, you have to do blah, blah, blah. 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:24.480 But the challenge with my job is, you know, hosting a podcast, hosting obviously these events, inviting the super high-powered people, trying to build new relationships, and then ideally writing stories, which requires a lot of like uh, you know, mind share and sort of time thinking and reporting. 00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:27.440 It's hard for me to just be the sort of task master. 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.039 And so having people that almost need to know, you have to boss me around. 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:36.079 You have to be like, I'm on the hook for achieving this by this date, and like you're the only one who can do this thing. 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.440 I'm gonna make it as easy as possible for you to do that thing. 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:45.119 And then, you know, we had we'd hired this year a community lead and a summit operations associate. 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:54.799 And the community lead is really doing attendee stuff, and the summit operations person is not doing necessarily editorial, but she is responsible for like doing speaker logistics. 00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:04.240 And so it's like, okay, who's inviting, who's, you know, making sure that we get the speakers, if she's responsible for getting the speakers, is she making sure that I've actually asked them? 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:05.759 And so I guess the answer is yes. 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:14.319 And so it's just a lot of subdividing all the different tasks that we have and who you know has to do what and yeah, who's who's involved in what? 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:14.960 Totally. 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.799 It's a far cry from your texting people before your bachelor party, right? 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:19.920 To be like, exactly. 00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:27.279 The chaos of one person, you know, you can only ride on sort of energy and sort of the hunger to do all the pieces for so long. 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:28.640 Do you do this exercise? 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.799 Like, I mean, you probably know more about it than I do. 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.359 Do you think it's a useful approach? 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:34.000 Yes. 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:40.480 I mean, it's funny because the racy chart is so helpful because it does, as you say, like outlines everyone's responsibility. 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:47.359 And to your point, it's not like they don't need input from other people, but they're the ones who are like, guys, don't forget this thing has to happen. 00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.559 But that also another important piece is the informed piece. 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:55.119 So you may not have this at your company, but I'm just gonna use as an example, young Riley, poor Riley, right? 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.519 So Riley has been with you since the beginning. 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:00.720 So he might think that he should be involved in every decision. 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.160 No, no, no, right? 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.759 He needs to be at times informed, but he's not gonna be consulted, right? 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:12.559 And so that can be very hard for people also to know that they used to be part of the decision-making team, but now we've gotten past that. 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.480 Everyone's gotta do their own like swim lanes. 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:16.559 And so some people are like, just let them know. 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:17.200 Exactly. 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:17.599 Right. 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.680 Part of the exercise is taking on less. 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:24.400 Saying, okay, the new people, you know, you're taking more ownership and we're trying to take less. 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:32.559 And so it's a way to really spell that out that you almost want them to really be driving some of these things that they see you doing and that you have done. 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:36.319 And so there's a temptation to be like, well, they've been here, they're higher on the hierarchy. 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:39.599 I guess they're their things, and sort of like a way to be like, no, no, please. 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:39.920 Right. 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.359 Yeah, we want you to take them over. 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:41.839 Right. 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.960 So the point though, it's also just a way to be intentional because things have changed from like the beginning of the year to the end of the year. 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:48.480 And so things have morphed and changed. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:50.160 We brought on a couple of people, whatever. 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:53.119 And so it's also really helpful

just to be like, wait, who's doing what? 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:54.799 And just even clarifying that. 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:59.680 I mean, it's not the racy framework or any of these leadership tools, like smart goals, for example. 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.519 They're not magic by themselves. 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:05.599 What they do is they force you to be kind of rigorous about wait, what are we trying to do here? 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:07.039 And who needs to be involved? 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:16.559 And all those kinds of things that just happen, especially in a small business, kind of like organically bubbling up, and then you have all these assumptions and behaviors that you're like, wait, does this still work for us? 00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:17.680 I think that's what's so helpful. 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:18.480 Exactly. 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:18.880 Yeah. 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.319 Are there other tools that have come to your mind or that have come to your consciousness as well? 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:23.920 No, that was a real magical moment. 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:28.400 I'm not like the, you know, again, not a process person. 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:33.920 I mean, to us, this is sort of a zag, but like our ticketing platform we built with Claude Code. 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.160 I mean, Riley sort of really gets credit for that. 00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:43.599 I mean, our community lead went to Claude and said, here are the emails, here's a message Eric wants to send. 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:50.720 She gave me that Google Doc, and basically I just copied that prompt into my email, and then Claude drafted all the emails for me to send. 00:22:50.799 --> 00:23:04.960 And so, really, you know, obviously we host AI conferences, we're true believers, but trying to figure out how to, you know, stay lean and efficient using AI and Claude has been sort of a key part of our company building as well, I'd say this year. 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.400 Yeah, that makes complete sense. 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:11.440 I'm curious for you, again, as a manager and a leader and a founder, what are some things? 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:18.240 I'll just give you maybe a typical thing that founders have trouble with, which is having hard conversations or giving, you know, sure challenging feedback. 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:19.599 Can you recognize yourself in that? 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:21.759 Yes, yeah, I can see myself in that. 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:23.440 You have to drill down a little bit more. 00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.880 I'm trying, I mean, I haven't necessarily embraced all the, you know, I'm certainly not doing six months feedback. 00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.119 I think we'll certainly we'll do year-end feedback. 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:36.880 And like given we're sort of a bonus-oriented company, then I have to give very clear feedback. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.200 You mean in terms of goals so they can hit those margins. 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:39.759 Yeah, exactly. 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:44.480 It's like, did you, how did you do, like, and some of it's you know, objective and some of it's subjective. 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.160 So I think on an annual basis, I try to give pretty direct feedback. 00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:54.000 But then I think one weakness of mine has been I'm a very quick slack reactor. 00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:56.720 In some ways, that's helped my external relationships. 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:01.440 It's like, you know, I'm not like sitting, you know, my wife can be very analytical about what she says. 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.240 Like, I'm just like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like say it. 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:06.319 Which can be good in just ease of relationships. 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.240 If your instincts are right, just do it. 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:09.599 Like, don't think about it too much. 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:16.240 I don't know, I had to get us out of a problem the other day, and like could have been days of agony, and I just sort of like, all right, let's just rip the band-aid off. 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:22.079 But with your employees, sometimes good to cool down, good to get on the phone instead of communicating on Slack. 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:28.079 One of the things, you know, when uh the new employees joined, I sort of was like, if my slacks are ever ambiguous, like you should just call me. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:36.880 Like, I do want them to call, but generally I am trying to not slack things where I'm annoyed and give feedback live more than over Slack. 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:38.799 Yes, good advice for everybody. 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:43.200 Have you another tool, just to give you some insights, is a personal operating manual. 00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:44.079 Have you ever heard of that? 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:45.920 Oh, well, let me rock your world right now. 00:24:46.160 --> 00:24:46.640 Yeah, I'm excited. 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:51.839 So, like when you say to your employees, if my slacks are ever ambiguous, just call me. 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.400 You're telling them how you operate, right? 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:58.160 You're telling them, and here's how to get the most out of me, or here's how you can operate me. 00:24:58.240 --> 00:24:59.839 And so you could tell them all other things. 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:04.640 Like, for example, when you don't hear back from me on email or Slack or whatever, just ping me again. 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.680 I don't mean anything by it. 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:10.079 Or when I'm staring into space when we're talking, I'm not not paying attention to you. 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:11.279 I'm just thinking, right? 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:12.720 Those are just some signs of examples. 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:12.960 Yeah. 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:15.599 If you want to get a hold of me, you know, don't call me. 00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:18.319 That's gonna like freak me out, text me, and we can have

a quick call. 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.279 Or the opposite. 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.319 So it's all these kinds of ways, like, here's how I am. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:26.319 And when your team each other shares for each other, here's how we are together. 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.599 It just helps efficiency in terms of working together, especially when you're remote. 00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:36.880 Yeah, it's easy to underestimate how much working with other people you need to make things explicit, which you assume they'll just sort of observe and figure out. 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.599 And especially in a remote business, you need to spell it out. 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:40.799 Especially when you're the boss. 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:48.559 And I guess I'm curious, how do you make sure that people come and tell you the truth when you're the you're not just the boss, you're also the name of the brand? 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.400 We're small enough that I have direct relationships with everybody. 00:25:52.640 --> 00:26:00.480 So while some of the reports like flow through Riley the business lead, you know, there's also this whole editorial piece of it that I haven't talked about as much. 00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:04.960 I end up, for good and bad, having a lot of one-to-one with everybody. 00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:10.720 And so we're still at the scale of, I don't know, human reads on how people feel about things. 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:11.119 Yeah. 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:11.839 Is that naive? 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.119 It's like, oh, I'm reading them as talking to them, reading them as people. 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.559 I don't think it's naive. 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:19.359 You know, I know you personally, you're kind of down to earth, which is good. 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:27.359 I think the test for you would be how often do they tell you something that you don't want to hear, or that makes you upset or uncomfortable. 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.079 And by the way, you might just be like super chill and I never get upset. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.119 So that's a whole different thing. 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:34.640 But like if they tell you stuff you don't want to hear, then you know they're telling you the truth. 00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:43.440 If they're always kind of agreeing with you, or even like not telling you stuff, you know, taking too long to tell you stuff, then that I think would might be a good marker. 00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:44.400 Does that resonate for you? 00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:55.440 Yeah, I mean, the biggest challenge, and I don't want to get into too specific, but like we had, you know, a goal that we did not meet, but I didn't realize we didn't meet it for several months. 00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:01.359 And so then I felt like I should have been alerted that we were off that goal much sooner. 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.400 But obviously, I also shared a part in missing it anyway. 00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:05.599 So then I'm frustrated. 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:10.960 I wasn't informed, like I'm angry about this, and at some point I needed to just move on. 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:13.119 Like I had to accept, yes, this had happened. 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:23.200 Like both me and the like party involved, like, you know, wish we like realized we weren't on track sooner, but then at some point it needs to be like, okay, trust needs to be rebuilt. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:36.400 And so that was sort of expressed, but it's obviously hard for the person to be like, all right, you know, in the most extreme example in a personal life, it's like the coaching advice, you know, it's like someone cheats, you sort of like accept that that happened, you have to move on, or you don't. 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:38.960 And like, this was obviously much smaller scale than that. 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:40.880 It wasn't, you know, unethical or anything like that. 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:43.200 It was just sort of like, am I really gonna hold on to this forever? 00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:49.839 Or was I gonna say, okay, yes, that had happened, and now it is not gonna come up as like the thing that looms over all conversations. 00:27:50.000 --> 00:28:00.160 It required honestly going outside of the company and like, you know, getting advice like you give on sort of how to interact with people and sort of be like, all right, we're past this one thing. 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:02.480 And so I think that's been sort of an important lesson. 00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.680 But it was very, it was almost the opposite of like not express enough. 00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:07.359 It was like, oh, it's coming up all the time. 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:20.559 It's sort of like it was uh, we're living in this, I can be in this sort of like surface everything, you know, whereas like at some point you need to be like, all right, yes, that happened, but we're we're like on new things and totally have have readjusted the strategy to reflect that. 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:31.920 Well, I think that's so important to bring up because like actually that's why I think that being a founder and being a leader is so obviously a vehicle for personal growth because what you just described is not a business thing. 00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:42.240 It's like, how do I personally handle my anger, disappointment, upset, you know, lack of trust, whatever, questioning, and deal with this person like from today and not from three weeks ago in the past. 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:44.480 I think that's like a really dark human skill and an important thing. 00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:45.920 And that's why it's so satisfying. 00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:51.119 It's like uh everybody, you know, your poor employees, I guess, have to go on the journey of you growing and improving. 00:28:51.279 --> 00:29:00.319 Obviously, you wish you were already, you know, your perfect self, but as the founder, you know, CEO, you really get and have to grow to keep making the business

better and better. 00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:03.359 And then add on the sort of influencer aspect. 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.920 It's like both as sort of the CEO, but then sort of face brand, blah, blah, blah. 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:09.680 I feel it, you know, especially. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.960 Yeah, I was also wondering about that, that influencer perspective. 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:22.079 I would sort of wonder what changes when you show up as like the brand Eric Newcomer as opposed to the founder Eric Newcomer, as opposed to someone's hanging out at your house in Brooklyn. 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:23.440 Well, I'm obsessed with this topic. 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.599 Literally, I'm like trying to get myself to write. 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:27.839 I think it's in the air, this like authenticity. 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:29.599 Like, can you be authentic online? 00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:36.240 Like, literally, I I think like Emily Sunberg in her newsletter this week was grappling with it with the person she was interviewing. 00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:41.519 I feel like it's in the air because we're in this moment where you're professed to be authentic. 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:49.119 I had John Coogan from TBPN on my podcast, the Newcomer Podcast, and I was like, literally, my first question was like, Are you a character or is this you? 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:50.799 So it's very much on my mind. 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.279 I believe to some degree that I'm authentic, that it is like the same person. 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.759 And obviously, a podcast, you should be high energy. 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:03.039 You know, even if I were in a bad mood, I should like show up and do my job and be emotive and all that. 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:11.759 So there's inherently in any public speaking some level of artifice because you need more energy than your friends could demand of you at a hang. 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:18.880 Though I, you know, I still want to be a fun friend when my friends come over and I'm generally pretty good at being on, even if it's just like for a friend. 00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:19.599 But I don't know. 00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:28.319 So I lean into authenticity, which then does allow some level of through line between like the public persona and the founder persona. 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:33.200 And I'm often turning to my how I do reporting to think about how we lead the business. 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.079 And I'm pretty transparent with how I think about things. 00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:43.839 I'm not a big like secret keeper and believe in transparency and like have talked about the business pretty openly and have at times shared our like financials. 00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:47.599 So definitely I aspire to authenticity and transparency. 00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:53.359 At the same time, you know, like even giving case studies here, it's like you don't want to like dog out your employees in public. 00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:59.519 There's certain things like lessons that you learn that are sort of irresponsible as a CEO to talk about. 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:08.960 And part of being responsible, it requires an inauthenticity, which is unfortunate in a world where I almost professionally want to force everybody to put it all in public. 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.079 Like, what's the secret? 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:15.440 You know, we're very sort of rooting for transparency and like that's very much like my persona. 00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:24.720 And so then to face the boundaries of responsibility in some cases calls for secrets and discretion, that's like a learning experience in and of itself for me. 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.480 Yeah, I can totally understand that. 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:34.079 I mean, that is part of the notion of like being a grown-up, is that there are times where you have to just be judicious about what you share and what you don't share. 00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:35.519 And there are times you have to keep secrets. 00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:40.640 Like the, you know, a normal example that is any company that's quote unquote doing layoffs on Friday. 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:44.480 On Monday, the leaders know about it and they can't talk about it until Friday. 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:46.240 And that's really challenging for people. 00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:53.440 But that's kind of like, you know, the contract that we all sign with companies that there are things that you're gonna have to do and secrets you have to keep. 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:54.960 And I think it's really challenging for people. 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:01.200 Yeah, I think when it's a pretty clear, like that kind of situation, I think it's easier for me because it's sort of like, all right, it's clear. 00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:05.200 But it's the constant graze of everything is like an incremental edge case. 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:05.680 It's hard. 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:06.160 Right. 00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:11.200 As an influencer, do you find it challenging to be kind of maybe a little bit internet famous? 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:12.720 Like you walk around to recognize you. 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.839 Well, like YouTube comments, uh, they're not always positive. 00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:19.680 I mean, you know, my channel has had a lot of success interviewing. 00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:23.680 I've had two interviews with Ed Zitron, who's like the biggest AI hater. 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:26.400 And like I host an AI conference, I'm pretty bullish. 00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:30.000 And he honestly, you know, is fairly complimentary of me in the episodes. 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:36.240 You know, I report a mix of positive and negative things about AI, but his like fans, you know, they're like, who is this guy? 00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:37.920 Like, why is he interrupt Ed? 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.119 You know, and my wife and mom read them, and like, you know, it's like I'm just like, I try not to read them.

00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:47.680 I, you know, I have producers who will like tell me if they actually want me to adjust to any of the feedback. 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:49.200 I mean, some of them I find funny. 00:32:49.359 --> 00:33:00.720 On one of the episodes, I uh was marveling about how important AI was, saying, you know, like Chat GPT knew the name of my daughter who wasn't born yet before my mom, because you know, we were just sort of like, oh, what do you think? 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:01.680 What are similar names? 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:02.400 What do you know about it? 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:02.960 Blah, blah, blah. 00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:06.720 And like, my daughter's name is my wife's deceased grandmother's name. 00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:15.920 So Chat GPT in no way came up with the name, but the sort of meme to the extent, you know, people are paying attention to me is like, this is the guy who let Chat GPT name his daughter. 00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:23.119 And so it's like, it's sort of funny, you know, but it's like, in some ways, the fact that it's such like a caricature reminds you that they're sort of trolley. 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.519 You know, so you have to have a thick skin about that. 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:38.720 On the sort of newsletter side, I'm in some ways a keeper of Silicon Valley reputations, and so I take very seriously, you know, when you shape someone's reputation, and sometimes I feel like it needs to be adjusted down, and so I write that. 00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:44.960 But yeah, so you try to listen to what people are saying, but then sort of hold true to yourself. 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.079 And sometimes it's, you know, ignoring it on a level that many people would find very difficult. 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:54.559 And I have been always a sort of like, you know, don't want to be told by the teachers what to do. 00:33:54.640 --> 00:34:03.759 Like sort of so the mob, you know, saying, uh, you should be more anti-AI or whatever, like them telling me in some ways makes me be like, Well, I'm not gonna listen to you. 00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:16.000 So I'm good at that sort of defiance of the crowd trying to get you to be something, but certainly any creator influencer is very aware of their audience and what audiences, you know, say they want. 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:22.480 Yeah, well, I was wondering about that because you were a reporter at the information and at Bloomberg, and that's kind of a job that we all understand. 00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:26.639 And I would also say you had the imprimada at that time of, let's say, Bloomberg. 00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:34.880 And so journalists tend to be challenging the sources when they need to be, and then I guess theoretically the sources keep coming back for more because it's Bloomberg or whatever. 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:40.480 And then you became newcomers, so you're on your own, you're doing a substack, you know, and then of course we built this whole thing around it. 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:46.480 And I'm just curious, has it been harder for you to be as challenging with people at times? 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.480 Have you ever been thinking like, well, on the one hand I'm an influencer, on the other hand, I'm a reporter? 00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:51.599 Like, how do you think about that? 00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:55.840 On the influencer piece, I always say I want to be an influencer who exceeds expectations. 00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:59.519 You know, I have the privilege of having been and still am, you know, such a reporter. 00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:01.840 You know, I interned at tons of newspapers. 00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.320 I was like an anchor on my elementary school newscast. 00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:08.000 So anyone who follows me knows, like, he is the reporter like to the bone. 00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:15.599 And so then I own like influencer because it really annoys me that journalists are held to this high moral standard and influencers, you know, low ones. 00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:24.639 So I know that influencer is a loaded term, but in some ways I prefer to use it because I'd rather be judged by, you know, how we do things in a more thoughtful way than many influencers. 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:31.599 I mean, Silicon Valley believes in new things, and so I do think the relationships stayed. 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:39.119 And in some ways, the fact that an email newsletter reaches you every time made me more essential to the audience that I was writing for. 00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:43.920 Harder to get, I don't know, Goldman Sachs on the phone, but much easier to get a VC. 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:52.000 I think savvy media watchers over the last like decade in particular have realized that individual reporters sort of are their own people. 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:57.039 And obviously there are news organizations, but you really needed to know the individual reporter. 00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.920 So I don't think it's changed that dramatically. 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.920 I always sort of have had a philosophy. 00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:03.760 I don't want people to be taken by surprise. 00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:07.840 Like I have a sort of, I don't know, in the wire, I think there's that line, it's all in the game. 00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.000 Like I want people who are like, you know how reporters work. 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.360 If I get a scoop, even if you're like my reliable source, it's like, I don't know, I have good stuff to say about you. 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:16.559 And it's all fair game. 00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:18.960 I have like documents here, they are like, what are you gonna do? 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:24.320 And so I'm not trying to like get someone to do a chummy thing, and then I'm like, oh, by the way, this is like super negative on you. 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.360 I'm much more inclined to be like, I don't know, this one you're not necessarily gonna like it. 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:28.079

You can talk to me. 00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:28.960 We have the history. 00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:35.920 So I just try to be like a straight, open, transparent, sort of like dealer on how I'm operating to maintain the relationship. 00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.599 You know, there's always pressure. 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.119 It's easier to be positive. 00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:42.960 I don't know if it's good for the business necessarily, but there is the like humanity. 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:45.679 I mean, readers like negativity, like those stories do well. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:52.239 So there are pressures on both sides, but certainly there's a level of, oh, if you just want to sleep easy at night, like just write positive stuff. 00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:54.320 And so there's a push and pull on that. 00:36:54.400 --> 00:36:58.639 And the more you want to be an insider, it's you know, it's easier to be positive. 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:02.239 But at the same time, if you're writing negative things, power. 00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:11.840 People know there's a reason to sort of care about what this person thinks because they could say something that really has an impact on my uh reputation that other people are afraid to say. 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.000 And so I just try to say true things. 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.800 And at the end of the day, it's like don't game out like the strategy of being positive or negative. 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:19.840 What's the true thing? 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:26.639 Like, really know what the insider narrative is and have things gotten out of whack from that and bringing things back to reality. 00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:35.599 But yeah, to answer directly, you know, I think I've had the same level of access or more within my community as uh independent media outlet. 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:36.880 Yeah, that's good to know. 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:43.039 And I really understand, like in your own head, the nuances between reporter and influencer and also founder and whatnot. 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.880 You know, I want to shift gears a little bit because, you know, you're a founder and you cover Silicon Valley, you cover founders. 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:53.760 And I'm just curious, has being a founder yourself changed the way you cover founders at all? 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.079 I'm definitely more sympathetic to the view of creation. 00:37:58.239 --> 00:37:59.840 Like this thing didn't exist. 00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:01.599 Yeah and now it exists. 00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:05.440 And that reporters can be like, this thing doesn't exist perfectly. 00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:08.159 And founders can react, it didn't exist at all. 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:09.440 Like, can't I get credit? 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:22.800 Now I think as a reporter, you know, Uber being sort of the canonical example, it's like, at some point, yes, Uber exists, we're appreciative, but now you are an important part of, you know, how society operates and you need to deliver it uh to the standards society wants. 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:26.320 And you can't just say, well, I created it, didn't exist, let me do it however I want. 00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:36.639 But it has given me more appreciation and respect for how quickly our society just takes for granted a technology or company that exists and says, right, we're entitled to that now. 00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:38.159 Sure, you created it, but who cares? 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:46.159 We're gonna like shit on you for not doing it as well as we'd like, and doesn't really for very long say, oh my God, this thing didn't even exist yesterday. 00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:48.880 And now I have this amazing thing, and I'm like so grateful. 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:52.800 And obviously, you know, people will plow the madman quote, like, that's what the money's for. 00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:07.199 Obviously, you know, founders are getting paid for it at all, but there is an amazing capacity within our society to just take for granted the thing that didn't exist yesterday and understanding how hard it is to take the risk to leave, to take the risk on an idea and to create something new. 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:09.679 Yeah, and to bring people around you to do it, right? 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:11.360 And to actually convince other people, right? 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:12.320 Yeah. 00:39:12.559 --> 00:39:13.440 Yeah, all those things. 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:22.719 You know, if you sort of look back on the founders that you've seen, interacted with over your career, does anything come to mind that stands out to you as you thinking, oh, this founder's really special? 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:28.719 Like these qualities come up over and over again that are markers of this person's gonna make it or this company's not gonna make it. 00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:30.960 I do think being a great storyteller. 00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:39.920 I mean, I was just at a dinner with Max, the CEO of Lagora, which is one of the two you know AI legal companies who I think it was off the record, but I don't think he'll be mad for me to say. 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.559 He was very charming, he was very good at selling the story. 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:47.760 He like knew when to lean back and not say too much and then when to really like put it on. 00:39:47.920 --> 00:40:02.000 And I do think people who can really get how they fit into sort of big ideas that are happening, really be engaging, understand where you know your head's at, and can tell you a story about their business that feels honest is just so powerful. 00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:05.039 And they're founders like I don't know, Guillermo, the CEO for sell. 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:08.719 Whenever I sit down with him, I'm like, I think you do everything, you know. 00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:15.440 In some ways he's almost too successful, and then I'm like, I have to go check some of this because like I come away somewhat captivated. 00:40:15.599 -->

00:40:23.440 I mean, I like the sort of determined founder, you know, Christina Advanta has certainly done such a good job telling her story. 00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:29.039 And so I think where there's a great story, you know, so important, especially to the early rounds of fundraising. 00:40:29.119 --> 00:40:36.480 There are, I'm sure, examples of the behind the scenes founder, you know, certainly software companies and stuff like that. 00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:42.559 But I do think successful startups really need somebody who can tell the public storyteller for why they really matter. 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:44.000 I think that's a really good point. 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:48.480 And I would also say that, especially so-called technical founders don't always have that skill. 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:49.840 Plenty of founders don't have that skill. 00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.559 Technical founders, you know, the meme would say they don't have that skill. 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:57.039 What specific suggestions do you have for founders to build their storytelling skills? 00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:01.199 I think it needs to be truthful, uh, you know, certainly feel truthful. 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:04.559 Like I think you need to know that you have to give the backstory. 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:10.639 I think a lot of these technical founders are smart and so can assume a lot of knowledge and that people know what's going on. 00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:18.159 You know, I talk to a lot of founders, it's like, yeah, I talked to you like two years ago, you told me what you do, but like I haven't thought about you necessarily like since. 00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:22.320 And I think I often try to like almost tell the newcomer story like every time. 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.840 Not every, you know, obviously, but you need to tell the story like over and over again. 00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.559 I think the good ones know that like they love telling it. 00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:29.760 It's like it's a great story. 00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:30.480 They built it. 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:36.559 Like you have to find like the love for telling it over and over again and giving people the context and like where you are. 00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:44.639 So just like stepping back and getting to the current moment and really having it in a way where you feel excited to tell it, not sort of rushing through it. 00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:51.840 Yeah, I think just like the commitment to contextualizing whatever it is you want to talk about now in sort of the arc of things is really key. 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:53.679 And maybe the realization that you have to. 00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:59.920 Yeah, that you can't just sort of like skip ahead and assume it's been done, that the message is I mean, because the ego can go both ways. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:03.280 You know, it's like you you just sort of assume people are paying attention to it. 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:05.519 But I mean, you watch like a Travis Kalanick. 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.440 I mean, the Adams rebrand, it's like the war stories of Uber. 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:14.000 You know, it's like it fits into a lore, even though you know I have objections about him. 00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:19.199 But I do think really giving people give a little more context on that, on the Travis Kalanick moment. 00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:26.480 Especially, I mean, you wrote about him in Bloomberg, and there is a talk that part of your article got him kicked out of Uber and now he's back. 00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:28.480 Give us a little take on that, your context on that. 00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:36.079 Um, yeah, so I mean he, you know, CEO of Uber ousted, you know, around the IPO or ahead of the IPO. 00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.320 He's been working on cloud kitchens for a long time. 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:43.440 And now he is, you know, raised money from Andreessen Horowitz and has rebranded at Adams. 00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:47.119 And it's like, you know, selling this vision of like we're gonna do everything, you know. 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.400 I mean, I think a lot of it is automating factory work and mining and a lot of stuff like that. 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:56.719 He's traditionally done like ghost kitchens were a big thing for cloud kitchens. 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:08.480 So it's somewhat strange in that he had a business that he has been working on for a long time that has had valuations and he's largely built in secret, and then he sort of like had a coming out party for it, though not really like directly with the media. 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:15.039 And so he's been able to get people paying attention to Adams largely through, I don't know, Andreessen sort of owned properties. 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.199 He went on TBPN, so it's the sort of like controlled tech release. 00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:21.440 I mean, I think he has interesting observations. 00:43:21.599 --> 00:43:32.159 Like he he made the point that the media has sort of given up on trying to keep track of him because he operated sort of secretly for so long that we don't know where to fit it in to the story, which I think is true. 00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:34.880 It's sort of like what happened with his cloud kitchens' success. 00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:37.519 I don't really know, and therefore it's hard to talk about Adams. 00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:45.760 But I do think that he's gonna struggle a little bit now that he wants Adams to be sort of a brand that, you know, I think he's doing it because he wants to recruit great employees. 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:51.679 It's like hard for people to latch on to the story beyond the initial like announcement because it's like, what's going on? 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:56.960 I feel like at some level, people want to know the real facts like what happened, like what's the valuation been? 00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:57.920 Was that successful? 00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:58.480 Was this? 00:43:58.559 -->

00:43:59.760 And if they can't check it, you know. 00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.280 Know you'll get some attention, but reality matters at some point. 00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:04.400 Reality, I know. 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:06.320 It always comes down to also can you deliver? 00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:06.559 Right. 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.119 And I think people are betting on him as a second-time CEO. 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.119 There's so much drama around him. 00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:13.840 And so, yeah, I think it's gonna certainly be an interesting journey. 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:22.079 You know, Eric, you've kind of brought up a few times the current landscape, and I think it would be a shame to miss the opportunity to hear you weigh in, I guess, on two things. 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:31.679 One is maybe the current, like, let's say, market for startups, where there's plenty of companies which are the so-called zombies from 2020 and 2022 in that time period. 00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.039 And then of course the IPO market being open for these, you know, trillion dollar AI startups. 00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.719 What is your kind of take on the current, like, let's say, venture or startup landscape? 00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:46.079 Yeah, I mean, we just saw Airtable get acquired by Bending Spoons, which is the startup graveyard. 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:57.920 I mean, okay exit for some early investors, but certainly I think like the enterprise value, you know, they had cash, and so they get some of that was like two billion some and had been valued at like 11 billion. 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.880 And that's probably like the high watermark for a lot of these like SaaS company private startups. 00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:06.480 So that was definitely a reality check for a lot of these companies. 00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:11.440 I mean, I think we're in a moment where you can raise a lot of money if you're like an AI genius. 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:20.639 You know, I think for a while, Silicon Valley was veering towards like, oh, great to be like the business school person chasing like the third on-demand economy sort of idea. 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:29.679 And now it's like, oh, we're gonna fund these crazy labs basically that have some, you know, AI PhD that have been able to raise a ton of money. 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:34.159 So I think those companies have been well funded, but it's hard to be what's next. 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.440 I think there's a great appetite among investors to find application businesses that worked. 00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:50.320 So far, there's legal, which I mentioned already on the podcast, like Harvey, Lagora, Crosby, and then there's like customer support, Sierra, like Decagon, where people are optimistic. 00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.639 But besides that, I think investors are still like watching for the great ideas. 00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:56.800 So people want to see some success. 00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:00.639 And yeah, I mean, we're these companies have had a lot of like revenue growth. 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:09.840 So we're seeing like super fast growing startups, you know, obviously like the open AI anthropic have grown just like historic leaps over and over again. 00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:17.840 Like, yeah, I think one of the weird dynamics at the moment is just if open AI and anthropic had grown slower, they'd sort of still be the startup narrative. 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:22.159 But they've grown so fast that it's like, all right, that's the pre-IPO narrative. 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:24.239 Like, what's next for startups? 00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:30.719 And so, yeah, right now it's a lot of labs getting funded to see if, like, oh, there are sort of another idea. 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:36.079 This chase for, you know, recursive self-improvement is obviously on everybody's mind. 00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:46.000 But hard to get funded if you want to be sort of a traditional anything non-AI, you know, it's like AI and then like maybe like manufacturing, like even defense tech. 00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:47.760 I think you sort of need to be Androl. 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:49.679 I think there is energy around energy. 00:46:49.760 --> 00:46:55.599 You know, if you can power all these data centers uh that are gonna reinvent the world, then that's also important. 00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:06.239 So there's some sort of like hardcore like nuclear physical infrastructure stuff getting funded, but definitely, you know, need to see how you fit into a world where Claude becomes all-knowing and all-powerful. 00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:07.119 Yeah, totally. 00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:08.960 And also it changes so fast. 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:17.440 I mean, that's I think the other issue around Claude and Anthropic O Claude and Open AI, but specifically, you know, the way Claude's kind of like building into everybody's vertical. 00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.400 And so it's like, well, that was a great idea a month ago, but no longer. 00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:25.679 Yeah, it's unclear how much to get scared, you know, like Claude has announced that they're going after anthropic. 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:26.239 We'll see. 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:26.639 Yeah. 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:30.719 So, but definitely just the smarter they get, the more it feels like, oh, I can just use that. 00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:31.519 Right, totally. 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.960 Eric, the other question I have for you is you're obviously an AI optimist. 00:47:35.199 --> 00:47:42.159 So, what message do you have for people who are terrified about AI and cybersecurity, AI and bio? 00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:43.519 I mean, all the things. 00:47:43.599 --> 00:47:50.880 And then also I would say maybe AI and continued, I guess, inequality in this country and like there being riots around that. 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:51.519 Take your pick. 00:47:51.920 --> 00:47:53.760 I'm definitely worried about AI and cyber. 00:47:53.920 --> 00:48:01.679 Like,

so I'm optimistic about the capabilities of AI, um, but that doesn't mean I don't see areas where it being more capable uh could be worrying. 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:14.559 I mean, some of these instances of open AI and now anthropic, and I think maybe meta literally today, where the AI is like escaping the box and you know, invading other companies like private technology, like that is worrying. 00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:22.559 Like, in some ways, I think society is overly chill about the idea that AI is becoming so capable that it can sort of get out of human control. 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:26.639 So I definitely think that is serious and something that should be paid attention to. 00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:37.840 I mean, I do think the American public, you know, I think underestimates how amazing it is that intelligence, like on demand, is now available to them to go run it, whatever ambition they want. 00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:46.000 I think people in the developing world are generally more upbeat about it because they see that this is a power that is now in their pocket. 00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:52.320 I think part of the problem is that it requires a level of like proactivity in figuring out how it can help you. 00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:58.079 But yeah, I do think spending the time and trying to figure out like where it's useful to your life is worth it. 00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:01.920 I also think, you know, there's money to be made in people not figuring it out, right? 00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:15.440 What I was saying a couple minutes ago about the search for applications, like I think there will be a lot of businesses that take something ChatGBD can do and say, here's a brand around the use case, here's how it's all set up and easy for you to use, and like here it is. 00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:23.920 It's like it is a lot for people right now to sort of like go figure out how to use it as your daily, you know, scheduler or email sender or whatever. 00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:29.679 You know, the bit people will make money off of making it easier for people to use, and that just takes some time. 00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:37.440 We're just in this period where there is like this amazing thing that can be used for a lot of stuff that people are still figuring out how to like put in neat boxes and sell back to you. 00:49:37.519 --> 00:49:40.800 And so I think you know, some of those answers will become companies. 00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:42.320 Yeah, that's a really good point. 00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:55.360 You know, Eric, as we wind our way to a close with just a few more questions, I guess I want to turn back to you and I want to ask you, you know, if in your career, it's been you know a long journey already, everyone has high highs and low lows. 00:49:55.519 --> 00:49:58.800 Is there like one high you could share and one really deep low you could share? 00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:02.639 I mean, I think like the first Cerebral Valley was a high. 00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:04.159 You know, I've talked about it some. 00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:08.159 I mean, launching in the first cerebral valley were both like huge moments. 00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:14.239 I mean, just creating something new and seeing it be successful early on is really satisfying. 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:19.199 The sort of incremental sort of improvements are hard to get as excited about. 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:21.280 I mean, I think, you know, I'm a reporter at the end of the day. 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:27.840 Like, you know, Shamath Polyhoppatia, one of the all-in co-hosts, you know, had gotten away with like he'd raised all this money on SPACs. 00:50:28.000 --> 00:50:30.639 They all went way down in value, lots of people lost money. 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:36.480 And then he got on Twitter and said, I'm the man in the arena, like, you know, buyer beware, basically, like, screw you. 00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:43.199 And I wrote a piece with some reported information, but a lot of publicly available information, basically being like, Shamath, you got away with it. 00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:45.519 Like, why are you being like a dick about it, basically? 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:48.400 And it's one of my, you know, most popular stories of all time. 00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:54.239 And so I do think, really being like, all right, I tried to be restrained, like, come on, this is ridiculous. 00:50:54.400 --> 00:51:02.320 I felt very proud of that story and did another one about how he basically gotten away with um screwing over a bunch of his former employees slash colleagues. 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:10.480 And so I do think, you know, when I write a great accountability piece, I published the video of Travis Kalanick arguing with an Uber driver, and that went very viral. 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:11.280 Low points. 00:51:11.440 --> 00:51:14.400 I mean, I think year two of the newsletter, it's just hard. 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:16.880 It's like, oh, I have to do that all over again. 00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:19.840 You know, you come out of the gate with all these ideas. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:28.400 Oh, my editors at Bloomberg didn't want me to write about, you know, they didn't want these self-referential pieces about PR and media, and so I knew I'd write some about that. 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:33.440 And like, you know, I I had stories that I felt like I couldn't write at Bloomberg that I was eager to do. 00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:37.760 And so then you do them, and then you're like, oh man, I need to keep this thing going. 00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:38.000 Yeah. 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:39.360 And that is certainly hard. 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:40.320 And do it alone. 00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:47.199 And so eventually, hopefully, you're at a scale where you can hire some people with their own ideas and who help make a little bit more of a system. 00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:54.159 I mean, uh, the hardest parts are just, you know, when I when I don't know what I want to write, but I feel

like I haven't written in a while, like, I'm miserable. 00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:57.039 Like, that's like the perpetual like problem of my life. 00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:01.039 I don't know how universal of a feeling that is, but I'm a very specific like it. 00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:03.599 If I've published a story I'm proud of, I'm a genius. 00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:04.400 Like, this is great. 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:04.880 I love it. 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:06.719 And when I haven't, I'm like, I can't even think. 00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:08.400 I'm not sleeping well, you know. 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:18.159 And so being just this person that's sort of riddled by the need to keep writing sort of compelling stuff, it yeah, is part of what keeps me current. 00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:43.679 And there's also a problem as I don't necessarily like forgive myself for not writing great stories, even if it's like you put on a great event, you're managing other people writing good stories, you're hosting a podcast, like I'm doing a lot of things objectively, but there's still part of me that's like, no, you need to write great stories on your own two feet, and just trying to either forgive myself when I decide to do other things, or to build the space to continue to write so that I get that moment of, ah, I've written something great. 00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:44.400 Right, exactly. 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:45.679 That dopamine hit from that. 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:45.920 Yeah. 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:47.599 And also just your own self-satisfaction. 00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:48.719 Obviously, that's part of your identity. 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:49.760 You see yourself in that way. 00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:50.559 Exactly. 00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:50.960 Yeah. 00:52:51.199 --> 00:52:52.400 This is my recurrent problem. 00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:54.159 So I take advice from anybody on it. 00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:56.079 Or, like, yeah, it's hard to answer. 00:52:56.239 --> 00:53:05.280 Should this strategy to be nicer to myself about not writing, knowing that I'm taking other things, or to accept that I'm just like in some deep part of myself that I can never adjust. 00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.719 I am a writer and I should just like build the time in for that. 00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:11.440 I mean, it's unanswerable, but well, what other advice have you gotten? 00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:13.760 I mean, I think I'm trying both. 00:53:13.840 --> 00:53:15.119 You know, it's like week to week. 00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:16.480 It's like it's an experiment of. 00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:20.880 I mean, if you talk to my, you know, my wife is definitely like he's happy when he's written a story. 00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:22.320 I mean, it's just sort of like objective. 00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:22.880 You know. 00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:25.679 But I mean, there's satisfaction from growing a business. 00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:35.840 I think I just need to accept that it is a lower pace of publishing than it was in the past, but still find time to write stuff that I'm proud of on some cadence. 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:39.119 I think you should clip this and play it to yourself every day. 00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:43.840 Clip which part that I'm allowing myself on a slower cadence. 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:47.599 You know, it's like it's not the same cadence, but you'll occasionally write it. 00:53:47.920 --> 00:53:53.599 I think what you're articulating is a normal tension between the so-called technical expert, right? 00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:59.840 Which is you as a writer, and the founder, which is like I'm trying to build a business here, to say nothing of, again, we talked about the influencer, right? 00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:03.519 So there's like, in some ways, three roles inside of there, but certainly two key roles here. 00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:06.559 And I think you need to accept first and foremost, hey man, there's a tension. 00:54:06.639 --> 00:54:11.840 And if the tension wasn't true in my first year in Subsec and certainly in my six years as Bloomberg, so let's be clear about that. 00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:19.280 And then secondly, probably doing a little bit of forward thinking to think about like, okay, so where do I want to kind of emphasize? 00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:24.320 Because you could hire a CEO for a newcomer, and then you wouldn't really be dealing with the business and growing with the business. 00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:27.679 I'm not saying you should do that, but like over time, it might be well, you know what? 00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:29.760 I'm a writer, I'm a journalist, I'm a reporter. 00:54:29.840 --> 00:54:31.360 That's really what I want to focus my time on. 00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:37.199 But until that moment, I think really kind of coming to terms with I need to think about balancing my time with my various hats. 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:42.559 And one hat is like founder, leader, CEO, and one hat is writer, journalist, reporter. 00:54:42.639 --> 00:54:49.519 And so recognizing when you're operating in those two things and making those decisions a little bit proactively, I think will give you more peace. 00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:51.119 That was good advice, Alyssa. 00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:51.599 I know. 00:54:51.920 --> 00:54:52.639 It's good advice. 00:54:52.800 --> 00:54:56.159 It's implementing it is uh setting my expectations. 00:54:56.400 --> 00:54:56.719 That's right. 00:54:56.960 --> 00:55:04.880 Because you live in the contradiction, or it's like there's clearly part of me, you know, doing the founder stuff is sort of satisfying and sometimes it is more straightforward than writing. 00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:22.800 You know, it is hard, but like writing can be such a like black box that it's like if I don't even know where to start, it's like uh I know how to ask the incremental person to attend the event, to check in with an employee on how something's going, to like and so those can often be the like, I need some productivity, I can do it in

the sort of founder thing. 00:55:22.960 --> 00:55:27.599 Where the writer, you know, I almost I need to step back, I need to like set some time reporting. 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:29.199 It's like a very different direction. 00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:33.679 And so the founder mini hits of productivity can undermine the writing. 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:34.400 Totally. 00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:36.239 We should do a separate discussion on this. 00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:38.239 Like there's so much red to share. 00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:42.400 Sorry, I'm like, oh, I'll get free advice while it's here, you know. 00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:43.519 Yeah. 00:55:44.480 --> 00:55:45.440 You know, authentic. 00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:49.519 It's like the darkest period for Newcomer is just for me, not the company. 00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:49.920 Yeah. 00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:52.320 Uh is just, you know, in search of a great story. 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:53.840 Yes, in search of a great story. 00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:58.639 Well, on the topic of the things that are hard, the very first time we met, we had this discussion about imposter syndrome. 00:55:58.800 --> 00:56:03.840 And I'm just curious, have you ever experienced imposter syndrome or severe self-doubt? 00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:07.360 You were like, oh, I bet you experience imposter syndrome. 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:09.519 And I'm like, no, I'm a procrastinator. 00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:10.079 That's my problem. 00:56:10.239 --> 00:56:11.280 Not a I don't know. 00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.679 Again, I was an anchor in my elementary school newscast. 00:56:13.760 --> 00:56:16.159 I like got to go ask the superintendent questions. 00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:23.840 I feel like very early on, I felt like, yeah, it's natural for me to be asked whoever I want questions, do this reporter thing. 00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:25.360 I feel like it's the calling. 00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:26.719 It's just sort of the thing I am. 00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:29.360 So I don't feel self-doubt about that. 00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:35.599 Sometimes I feel self-doubt about like where's newcomer sit in the ecosystem, but it is often just like hard as a business. 00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.920 Your brand resonates with some people and not with others. 00:56:38.079 --> 00:56:41.840 So like in one room you're hot shit, in another you're like nobody there. 00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:42.960 There is like a truth to that. 00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:49.199 It's not necessarily like imposter syndrome, it's just the inconsistency of where your brand sits with different people. 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:53.440 It's sort of funny in that, like, if I go to my wife's film parties, I'm like nobody. 00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:56.000 They're sad for me that I'm like, well, at least you're a journalist. 00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:57.199 You're in like VC. 00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:59.920 That's like you've sold your soul, but like only incrementally. 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:06.800 Whereas I don't know, I can be

to like, you know, we went to a coffee cupping in Mexico City, probably a bougie thing in some guy that knows Cerebral Valley. 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:12.079 So it's like, I'm a celebrity with some people and I'm like nothing to other people, but that's nice. 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:16.159 You know, I think people often say like the best kind of celebrity is especially in New York. 00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:21.599 If I'm in San Francisco, people sort of do recognize me, but living in New York, most people like they have no idea. 00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:26.320 And then in the right room, people sort of respect what I've built, and that's gratifying. 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:29.599 And so it's sort of nice to have that level of celebrity. 00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:30.880 So, yeah, I don't know. 00:57:31.039 --> 00:57:34.559 Imposter syndrome is not my main problem, procrastination is my main problem. 00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:34.960 Right. 00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:35.679 No, I hear you. 00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:36.000 Yeah. 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:40.159 And I think that um the notion of niche celebrity is definitely the dream, right? 00:57:40.239 --> 00:57:42.159 Everybody wants to be like a celebrity in their niche. 00:57:42.400 --> 00:57:43.119 That's the best way to do it. 00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:50.000 No, you're respected by the people you want to be respected by and not chasing that every person on the street cares one way or the other. 00:57:50.719 --> 00:57:50.960 Right. 00:57:51.039 --> 00:57:55.360 That's I think until you have that kind of fame, you don't realize how actually challenging that kind of fame is. 00:57:55.440 --> 00:57:57.599 So for you, it's like it works in your niche. 00:57:57.760 --> 00:57:59.840 Eric, what do you wish you had known earlier in your journey? 00:58:00.000 --> 00:58:01.840 I say to Bloomberg, like a year too long. 00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:03.039 You gotta make the move. 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:07.760 You have a good thing going, but you know you sort of want like making the decision early. 00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:12.079 I think of myself as being decisive, but I I think I should be much more decisive. 00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.880 I think there are decisions with the business where it's just like make the call and like, especially now with employees. 00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:22.559 Like I this year was driving people crazy for a while, just sort of like, I want like everybody just to come to my opinion. 00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:24.320 And I guess sometimes that doesn't happen. 00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:26.480 And then it's like make the call, move on. 00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:36.639 I think being decisive when you need to as a leader, and then in your professional development as well, just like not dragging it out longer than you need to is always valuable. 00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:39.360 Yep, that's a great insight, I think for sure. 00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:44.719 And last question is what advice do you have for founders as they embark on their journeys to grow into leaders? 00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:47.039 You know, listen to people, talk to people. 00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:51.360 But at the end of the day, I mean, you need to know what makes your company tick. 00:58:51.519 --> 00:58:55.840 You know, I think it's like the newsletters are identity, some of this hang up of like, am I ready enough? 00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:01.599 It's a sense that like all the events, I think like, you know, getting great speakers are events are like core to everything. 00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:03.840 If we have great speakers, things are much easier. 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:08.880 And so really understanding what is the thing that makes my business work. 00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:10.719 And so then you deliver on that. 00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:21.760 And it's easy to get distracted on like, sure, you should execute well on lots of different domains, but you need to make sure that the like core engine of what your sort of company is built on continues to work well. 00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:26.400 And like great founders, I think in the beginning, often creating that thing or making sure it happens. 00:59:26.480 --> 00:59:36.239 And then as you scale, making sure you hold on to, you know, sort of like truth tellers that we're not like, oh, now we have some like we're known, so we can just like put out, you know, what's going on adventure. 00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:56.960 It's like, no, we need to like cut through and continue to be known for like people who are really telling you the truth, and so holding to that even as we get more powerful, and therefore it's easier just to play it safe, like understanding like the core of what makes your company different and delivering that even as there's pressure to be like safer and play it safer at you know at scale. 00:59:57.199 --> 00:59:57.440 Right. 00:59:57.519 --> 00:59:58.159 That's beautiful. 00:59:58.320 --> 00:59:58.719 I love that. 00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:00.400 Eric, thank you so much for joining me. 01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:03.280 Where can people find your great Substack and your great podcasting? 01:00:03.599 --> 01:00:04.559 This has been so much fun. 01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:05.760 I love introspecting. 01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.440 I hope it was enjoyable to consume. 01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:13.599 Um the Substack is newcomer.co, and then the podcast is the Newcomer Podcast. 01:00:13.840 --> 01:00:17.760 It's on YouTube and Spotify and you know, everywhere you get your podcast. 01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:18.480 I love it. 01:00:18.639 --> 01:00:19.199 Check it out. 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:22.639 Even if you're not obsessed with tech, like not everybody is, it's just a great read. 01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.679 A great read and a great listen. 01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:24.400 So thanks, Eric. 01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:25.199 I appreciate you joining me. 01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:26.559 Thank you so much for having me on. 01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.840 Thanks for listening to From Startup to Grown Up. 01:00:30.079 --> 01:00:34.719 If you like what you heard, give it a review on Apple Podcasts so other people can find it. 01:00:34.960 --> 01:00:42.320 And if you know of a founder or someone else who is meant to be on this podcast, drop me a line through my website at alysacone.com.