EP 19: Daniel Cappellaro - Skill Acquisition & why Australian Football needs more Technique (Part 2)의 전체 녹취록

know, we we still have those six foot plus players that naturally Australia we're we're always gonna have that type of body type. So imagine if you know we have players with that body type that and probably in the next five years we're gonna see more of with that body type that they can step in, they can dribble, that there's a six two winger that can That can go at the player, that can hold the ball up, that's press resistant, that's like yeah. that's where my my purpose, I suppose, and my my passion comes for for coaching. Jani Schmidt: Yeah, I think it's an interesting part because the way I see it is Japan always had many, many years ago already the technical side, but they always struggled with the physical side. And spending a bit of time researching what they've done and how they've changed the curriculum and what they do across the country, they have changed that physical side as well because they understood we have the technique, but the majority of our players can't hold themselves up. And now you see Japanese players that are still height-wise small. But man, they're physical Daniel: Yes. Jani Schmidt: in terms of like they are physically prepared. And now you have players playing in the Bundesliga, playing in the Premier League and you're like, wow, they found that balance of like we develop our play still technically, but we're at the physical part. When I look at Australia, you naturally have athletes, you naturally have very physical players that can run full 90, even 120 minutes. That's always a trait. So that's like a given. That's like something that has to stay. But then I'm like, if we... Here in Australia, the football community develops players technically even more and you combine that together, you can actually have these players again that are playing Premier League, playing Champions League, you know, that bring that part. Because yes, if you look at the players that went overseas now, they all have their traits, but one big trait for them is also the physicality, right? They're very fast. They have one or two skill Daniel: Absolutely. Jani Schmidt: moves that they do consistently, but you don't have these players that like... you're going to see take on two players at a time that like, you know, do something crazy on the pitch. You don't see that they're efficient with what they got. And a lot of players, and that's maybe now going into the coaching part that I work individually with that are playing here in A-league academies that are at the top level. They are lacking some foundational technical parts. If I would compare you with an under 17 Bundesliga player in Germany, they would not be as physical as you, they would maybe not as efficient as you, but they would definitely have all the traits of the foundation of the skills in terms of first touch with both feet passing, with both feet long ball technique, shooting technique. like, some players in Australia don't have that, but that's an easy fix. It's an easy fix spending detailed coaching with them. That's why I'm so patient about the one-on-one side as well. I'm like, you're already at this level, but there's such a big gap that's so easy to fix just with repetition and through skill acquisition that like, I'm like, if we could fix that, like you can go very, very far. But sometimes I feel like there's not that much time spent on that topic with players because they're just team training, team training, team training and no individual coaching. Maybe that's something you can... Like let me know what you see and how you've seen it over the last years here. Daniel: I think that's that's that's cultural as well. I believe that's cultural as well. It's like if you go to the park, any any local park or you go somewhere where there's people that take a ball, they are spending time like just doing free kicks or there's no real like I don't know, like when I used to go to the park or if I went with friends, we play two v two, we play one v one. There was always a competition, you had to finish. I think now the 'cause all that stuff you're talking about, I believe if the player can do by themselves, like yes, I'm a I'm a one-to-one coach. but when I do one to ones, I'll do like five sessions and then I'll say, Look, you don't have to renew. Like you know what to do now. You can take these things away, go and work by yourself. But I don't think that culture is really here. It's only a small minority of players that are doing this. and that's that's everything, right? Like if you can if you go to a wall and you're practicing with your left foot, laces inside, outside, right foot, laces inside, outside, controlling with a solar foot, inside, controlling, outside, receiving. You can scan, spin. Like there's so much you can do with a wall. You know, you can receive on the on the full, you can wall juggle, you can there's so much you can do. But the player now, and especially the younger players that are like 15, 16, the j the generation or the cultural trend that they've grown up in is I'm going to soccer. There's a coach or a facilitator or a someone watching, and there's someone guiding, and there's someone telling us what to do. So Everywhere they go, there has to be that. And then there's there's always other players. There's never just them and the ball. And when you try and explain this to them, I think because that culture's not developed and that habit's not developed, yeah. It's like it's just either completely dismissed or they look at you strange. You know, I and I think I think that really is the number one reason. That's the number one reason why those things don't happen. Because at a at a point as well, like especially if you're seventeen. I mean in Perth you can drive when you're CF seventeen. So you can take yourself to the to the football pitch. You can take your own footballs and that. But it's like every single session they do has to look like a pro session or it has to look like it's football.

Like s sometimes it's just like wall juggling. There's no walls in the game of football, but the ball's always coming back to you and you're always practicing a lot of different things, a lot of different actions. of course from this you need team training. You need one V one, you need two V two, you need proper pressure in order to practice it and turn it into skill. but the actual spending time with the ball and by themselves is yeah, cult culturally it's it's there's it's a very small minority. I w I wanna say it's not here. I was gonna say it's not here in Australia. It is, but it's a very small minority, in my opinion. Jani Schmidt: And then question on that, obviously, like you are like part of a coaching team and an A-League academy. Do you see that with some of the players as well that you can see a difference between the one that actively goes and spends time with the ball by themselves or takes on that feedback and the ones that don't? Daniel: Absolutely. Absolutely. Even when we so when we do scouting or we bring in our new let's say the new lot of Academy players that come through in the year. So this year we were looking at 2015s predominantly and some 2014, you can see the ones that go by themselves with the ball. You can see it. And it's actually becoming now, it's becoming like a no, I don't want to say like a superpower, but it's becoming like a hack. Because if you go by yourself with the ball and it's it's becoming more and more rare, but that player is just stands out in instantly, in my opinion. And not it's not always everyone's opinion, but in my opinion, you can see it. and then when you speak to the parents, go he spends a lot of time with the ball and they're like, all the time. You know, he's he's killing the house, he's smashing this, he's doing this, that's like great, don't stop, you know. So in my opinion, you can see that. It it's it's becoming more and more and more visible. Jani Schmidt: I think that always shows me as a coach, probably you feel the same, that part of like this player has an intrinsic motivation to become better. They're obsessed and that's something you said in the first part. You were obsessed with like watching, you were obsessed with learning, you were obsessed with trying. This is something if you want to go to the top level, you have to be obsessed with the little details, you have to be obsessed with training on and on and on over and over and over again until you have that one part that works. I think that sometimes is neglected a lot that people forget that this is part of going to the top level in any sport. You have to be obsessed with doing the same thing over and over again. Another question on the individual side. Obviously you on social media, you explained to us before that you were never planning to do any of like content creator, influencer and all of that. And I sometimes, I don't like social media as much either. And especially the stuff that's shown on social media in terms of the skill acquisition and like what a training session looks like. And obviously there's a lot of individual coaches all across the globe now. And a lot of them are only showing the fancy stuff. What do you say about that? Like, do you suggest for someone that is looking for skill acquisition learning? What should they be looking for? Because my problem with lot of social media stuff is it just looks too good and it's too set up and it's like too shiny that it actually neglects the basic point of the coaching or like the basic point of like the skill acquisition itself. Daniel: Think as a yeah, how we consume football content has completely changed. And there would be so many failures and sets and times where it didn't work, and then you have to change, you have to go again, you have to practice again and do the combo again, or whatever it is, like a combo of five skills or things like this, where that's that's not shown. You see Fifteen seconds of the final product. and I don't yeah, I don't really think about it too much and I don't blame people. I don't understand why people spend a lot of time making comments about like this isn't game relative, this is game like like the fact that the kid is practicing is already good. The fact that the kid has good feet is already good. I was watching a video the other day of JJ Gabriel. 'Cause obviously he's trending at the minute. He's saying he wants to leave Manchester United. And someone posted a video of him training at a a power leagues or like a goal center, and he's just doing dribbles by himself and then shooting. Dribbles by himself and shooting. And people are like mocking it and talking poorly about it. And I'm just like, This this kid's doing it in the game. He's got the clips of him doing it in the game as well. it's like there's no I don't think there is a bad way. To train with the ball, in my opinion. I don't think there's a bad way. You can be less effective as a player and you can be super effective as a player. but that is dependent upon your football IQ. But in terms of the actual training with the ball, if you're doing something with the ball, you're getting better. You're getting more coordinated. Your proprioception is increasing. Appropriception, for those watching that may not understand, is like if I'm standing on my left foot. And my right is in the air, it's understanding where my right ankle is in space and where it's going to land next. So if you understand the foundation of technique and how close you need to get your foot to the ball in order to make either a lace pass or inside a foot pass, this need you need Proprioception And if you're doing this with the ball, then you're going to become more balanced and more coordinated at doing that. So then you're able to do it quicker. And then you're able to do it without looking at the ball. And then you're able to do it with peripheral vision. So then straight away your passing becomes better and you're you're your dribbling

in 2 vs 1 moments and your moments to move for a player so that they can make a pass becomes better because you're aware of everything. You're not worried about the ball. Like the best example is is Rayan Cherki You know, Rayan Cherki can do absolutely everything with the ball. Absolutely everything. And there's so many pros that they play simple but can do everything with the ball. I think another example of this was like I saw Kyle Walker talking about Kevin De Bruyne, don't receive on the half turn in the t in the in the half space, right? No, no, Pep never wanted him to do that. Just bounce it back. And then they show clips of him just like letting it run, or he bounces and gets it again and then goes forward. That was probably just that tactical setup or that tactical information. because that's changed a lot since then. And maybe it became predictable that he was going to receive on the half turn. So Pep said, just change it and we're gonna do this. And someone come inside and you can bounce it to them. But if you watch was was he at Wolfsburg or was he at Veter Bremen? If Jani Schmidt: Yeah, he was the worst one. Daniel: you watch clips of Kevin De Bruyne at Wolfsburg, he's a 1v1 beast. Elasticos, chops, scissors, coming inside, dribbling people, nutmegs. I was like, who's this guy? And then I've seen also Kevin De Bruyne playing like in a in a panor knockout cage. And he can do all the skills. He can do all the skills, but he plays football with two or three touches. So coming back around to like what do I think of people that are posting this and that? I think people are just trying to find a way to get ahead. I think they're trying to find a way to catch audience. They understand the audience now is 15 seconds view time. Maybe I'm not like that, maybe you're not like that. I go looking for more, but Yeah, it it's never just like, I never think that this never applicable in a match, never applicable in the game. Like I think everything applies and if you're helping players be better with the ball, that's great. That's great. And it doesn't have to be to a goal, it doesn't have to be to like I think if you're working with a team, it needs to be i directional, it needs to be purposeful, it needs to be right with the team. But if you're just with the player and then you do how many sessions with them, And then it ignites the intrinsic in there. You've done your job. You've done your job. You know? Because if you go by yourself to the wall, you're gonna be there doing whatever. It's it's it's not the game. It's not the game at all. You need at least two more, three more people to have the game, you know? So that's my opinion around that. Jani Schmidt: I couldn't agree more around the topic of or the statement of any player that's going out there and doing something with the ball is already better than them not going out and you know just sitting at home. That's the first part, 100%. I think what I struggle with is like and I've seen it a lot

like I get a lot more players that are maybe 15, 16, 17 you know like the older ages. And with many of them, you can tell that I've done a lot of one-on-one sessions when they were younger, like already very early, which I don't believe is the right thing, like eight, nine, 10, 11, where I'm like, these kids should just be playing football with their mates and explore everything with like one, we want to be two. The biggest problem that I have with that is they have so many bad habits from doing like a bad one-on-one sessions, bad coaching, not understanding the technique that I'm sometimes like, Now we have a problem here because you're 15 years old. We have to break these bad habits before we can actually progress you. And breaking habits is hard. It takes a long time where I'm like, I rather Daniel: Yeah. Jani Schmidt: you would have not done these one-on-one sessions when you were a young kid and just played and then we build from there. Then you being very young, getting one-on-one sessions, doing the wrong thing, wrong habit. And then we have to break it and then relearn it because that's the hardest part. Daniel: What's what's an example of a there's many of them, but what what's the the example that comes to your mind that's a bad habit, if I can ask you a question? Jani Schmidt: For me, see a lot of players that they're still 15, 16 years old playing the highest level here in Sydney. They can't use their weak foot with passing. because they were Daniel: Sorry, sorry. Jani Schmidt: doing like, yeah. So I explained the whole part and Daniel: Yeah, sorry, yeah. Jani Schmidt: then I see what kind of sessions they have done in the past and it's something like, I'll run to this cone bounce, run to this cone bounce and then play a pass here. But there was never the focus on. How do you play the pass? Where do position your standing foot? What does your upper body do? Where does your eyes look at? And then you say, you said to them, like, I have you worked on your weak foot before. They're like, yeah. I was like, yeah, but you've only done the reps, but the reps were wrong. And then I'm literally having a 15 year old A-League academy player relearning how to use their weak foot. I'm like, how is that possible? Daniel: Yeah, yeah, I I understand. so all I would say is or maybe to answer with another question, is it the one-to-one coaching they had previously or is it the games package and the environment they've been in as a younger player? Because if you are good as a younger player, especially in Australia, you are generally An early developer. You have some kind of superpower. Most of it is physical. Can you always turn on to your strong foot? Yes. If you make technical errors, are you punished? No. So this is where also it's like I can work on my weak foot and I'm developing my weak foot. But then the understanding around you need to be able to do that in pressure is lost. This is where it's like. When we start to talk about technical skills

or skill acquisition, I see them completely different. Completely different. Because you can be technically very skillful. Like your technical ability can be insane. But if you don't know how to take it, how to do it against pressure, and if and sometimes it can even be stress or emotion that the player feels, then you're you're never gonna see this side. You're only you're only gonna see what they do or fall back on in the foundation. And if the foundation is not strong, like it hasn't been tried and tested, and it hasn't been used against pressure, then it you're gonna fall onto nothing. So I'm not sure if it's one-to-one coaching, because I reckon if you take those players and you're like, Okay, I understand. I'm I'm talking in generals here. There are some players Jani Schmidt: Yes. Daniel: when you go, Yeah, cross with your left foot, they haven't been doing it, right? or say cross with your left foot, or the left foot is. Cross for your right foot, you know? If you cross with your weak foot, they're not doing it. But if you are a smaller player and you can't compete physically, and you need to be good with the ball, once you touch the ball scissor and he moves this way, you've only got this angle and you have to use your weak foot. You're doing it because you know that the second he comes back, you're gonna get hit, you're gonna get smashed. You know, you you he's coming across you, you're not getting a chance, you're not gonna be able to shoot, you're not gonna even if you turn back, you start to face the ground because they're pushing over the top of you. So when you're when you're a or even not even a late developer, but just mid middle of the road developer, you're getting that exposure. and it's sadly the okay, I can only talk for the structure of the NPL in Victoria. It's the only one I've been involved in in like the last 15 years. And and the one I've been involved in in last three. the structure now is very competitive in terms of they have a league structure for all the top sixteen clubs and the second sixteen clubs. And wherever your thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, eighteens, all those points tallied, come in the ladder, d decides whether you're NPL one or NPL two. So in that case, if I have a fifteen-year-old that could actually play under eighteens. I'm gonna play him under 15s. If I have a 14-year-old that can play under eighteens, I'm probably gonna play him under fourteens because we're gonna win probably four three. He gets four goals, all with his strong foot, you know. it's that kind of environment that I think doesn't help the skill acquisition. You know, it's like, yeah, I've done loads of left foot work, but when the pressure's there, I always go back to my right. Jani Schmidt: Yeah. So then question for you, how do you think besides like being involved at Melbourne, like what in an ideal world, how would you do it differently? Daniel: That is a great question. how would I do it differently? Jani Schmidt: You Daniel: well, someone said to me when I was talking with the guys in the academy, they did it over the like say instead of having people in their age groups like we have 2011, 2010, 20, 2009, you do it on their not the biological age, but the chronological is it chronological age? Is that Jani Schmidt: maturation age. Daniel: what you call it? Yeah, maturation age. So if you're 13 year old, you can play under 13s, but maybe you're fifteen. So you you they can do it like this. And then straight away the physical level is flat or as as it can be, as much as it can be. And so then it's it's just more about the technical level of the players because you don't have players that can r just run in behind and putting the ball there in the big space when you're playing under fourteens. You've got to actually learn how to play and solve problems. And, you know, if you're man to man press, then it's you know, you know, you need to find another way to deal with that. you know, you can put the ball over the top, but you no one's gonna be able to just run in. So you need to go over the top and then it needs to be set, and then can we set up in in the middle phase? And can we keep the ball? Can we build controlled possession? That's probably what I would what I would do. I can think of the only thing different. I know Australian football's changed many times and they change the structure a lot of the time. But competitiveness needs to be there. Kids are competitive naturally. you should go into every game wanting to win. but not at the expense of okay, this kid's playing under fourteen today, but then in three years' time he's probably just gonna go play state one or div division three. You know, like that that player needs to be given platform. Where hey, you know, your maturation age is actually like sixteen, but you're fourteen. So we're gonna put you here with these guys. Now technically you need to get better. You know? And then and then the whole selection process would change as well. Jani Schmidt: I mean, there's obviously way more discussions we could have around that, but I think it's like, Daniel: Yeah. Jani Schmidt: obviously we have more parents and players being the main consumer of the podcast. So I think the biggest message that we've discussed so far for players out there is like, if you are a late developer and you know that you're a bit smaller, take that as the challenge, don't complain about it and find your way of working around it with your technique. And maybe you have to be even more technical to be getting away with it. And two, if you're one of the players that is like way ahead physically and as an early level, listen to the coaches and listen to the ones and try to give yourself the challenge of being more technical, not relying on your strength, not relying on your physicality and actually knowing that in three or four years time, majority of the players, the level that you're playing at will be catching up physically and you can't

just sprint after the ball anymore. You can't just put your body in. If you have a bad touch, it's just not going to work as easy as it is maybe in under 12th to under 15th. So these are the two key messages maybe us two as coaches would give these younger players and say like, hey, this is what you have to be aware of because ultimately when you're 18, 19, everyone's going to be catching up physically. And if you can't do the same task technically than some of these other players, you're just going to fall behind. Daniel: I think that's that's exactly right. And there's a there's a great clip. I don't know if you've seen it, but it's Thierry Henri talking about his time at Clairefontaine. And I can't remember the name of coach that he he said he had, but he said this coach made him because he said, right, Thierry, he was fifteen. He said, I want you to stop using your speed. So that that would never happen here. That would never happen in Australia. Someone going to someone like you think about Thierry Henri, Nicolas Anelka, David Trezega, Mbappe, this type of player and going, don't use your speed. You need to find another way to beat this player. So that is yeah, I think it shows like where that mentality was at Clairefontaine then in like nineteen pro when was that? Nineteen ninety four, maybe nineteen ninety-five, to then where Australia's mentality is now in twenty twenty six and how we develop players, you know? yeah. If you if you are the big physical player, find different ways, you know, don't just Yeah, I think I think we are even even for the smaller ones, whether you're a late developer, middle or early developer, football has become so obsessed with like microwave success. Like what's gonna work right now today, and if it does, I'm doing well. Which I don't I don't think is the in my in my opinion it's not the case, you know. Jani Schmidt: So then what advice would you give to someone or like how would you try to explain to them why it's so important to think three, four, five years ahead rather than thinking about the short-term solution? Daniel: This is this is also a difficult one, right? Because I try not to answer it from my experience. I try to think of it in in more general terms. But I feel like, yeah, 'cause short term you w you want to try and be good at everything. Because the older you get, you start to lean into your what we call superpower. That can be technical, that can be strength, that can be game IQ, speed. but it's about making those weaknesses not acceptable weaknesses. Yeah, like our Academy director did a did a podcast recently and he said there are acceptable weaknesses. Because if you can't use your left foot by the time you're sixteen, seventeen, you're gonna be limited. You're gonna be limited. things. okay, my left foot's not my first option. But can I lift the ball? Can I play with the inside of my foot? Can I play with my laces? Can I control the ball on my left side of my body? That's an acceptable weakness, in my opinion, because you can still do functional things Jani Schmidt: from all your experience of skill acquisition, now being involved as a team coach, what you've seen overseas, if you would need to build a player from scratch, right? They're starting. What kind of rough task would you give them to say, okay, this is how I would ideally build you from the age of Eight, let's take eight because that's kind of when you started to the age of 18. What kind of parts would have to happen different years, different developments, different techniques to learn to then be able to say at 18 you might have a chance and be a complete player. Daniel: to start with is very easy. Fall in love with the ball. That's that's a a very obvious one. make the ball your best friend. Like I think we've gone so far away from football being a game that we play and enjoy to football being a possible revenue stream, a professional job, an income where I can have all the things amazing in the world, like that now. is so much more focused. and like I said before, the microwave recipes and success for what do I have to what do I have to do to be the best right now? 'cause that's gonna work on the weekend. We have to move away from that. yeah, at eight, it's just ball, ball, ball. Be on the ball, stay on the ball. As many different types of skills, turns using different parts of the feet, because you also build your Like we said before, balance, coordination, proprioception, there's agility within that. If you're using a wall, there's agility within that. and this rip, yeah, that's the foundation. And then I think by about 14, 14, 15, you want to start probably becoming very tactically aware in 11v11. So prior to that, you need to be tactically aware. But it can be in small-sided scenarios. So if you're playing three v three, how to create isolation, how to create two v2, how to create two v1, when you're when you are one v one. all those are individual tactics within the small-sided game and that are very common in the eleven v11 game. And then from about yeah, 14-15, it I think it becomes more about the team. A lot more about the team and about being tactically aware and understanding if you're in this position and player on the other side does this, you need to do that. Otherwise you lose balance, you lose width, you lose depth, you lose the the balance of the pitch. but still working with the ball. because around fourteen fifteen I think you start to develop really or start to have an idea of what it is or who you are as a player. And then at sixteen 17, 18, you are like going hard on that superpower, whatever it is, because that's what's going to get you into professional football. and then it you have acceptable weaknesses. That's it. I think that's probably yeah, the easiest way to explain that without going through a full methodology. Jani Schmidt: Yeah, think I agree and unfortunately there's one part that I see a lot, not only in Australia but across a lot

of bigger countries in the world or Western countries that football originally was created to play as a team. But I find a lot Daniel: Yeah. Jani Schmidt: that it feels like we only or like a lot of players think I only develop myself and I want to be the best player without thinking about the team. And Daniel: Mm. Yeah. Jani Schmidt: you see a lot of players that are only thinking like that. And to a certain age, it probably is going to work. But if then by the later stages, the older you get, you don't fit into a change room, you don't play for the team, ultimately you're going to get caught out as well. And I think that's a big problem at the moment that like, you know, the younger ones, the parents is always like, where can we go next? Where can we go next? Like, nah, stick with your team. If the team is successful, you're going to be successful as well in your development. But it feels like everything is sped up and everything, like you said, is always like short-term success. this team is not good this year. Are we going to move? Rather than be like, no, I'm going to stay with this team and I'm going to do my part to improve it. we got relegated. Okay, I'm going to stay to this team and I'll try to get promoted in the next year again. I feel like here in Australia, especially in Sydney, it's always like, this place doesn't do it for me anymore. I'm going to go somewhere else. Rather than thinking about the club, thinking about the team. That's what football was originally created for. Daniel: Yeah, I think you and you have the other side of it as well, where players will have such a good season in one club, and they underestimate the environment. But they don't it's not that they underestimate. They don't realize, you know, that's they you feel like you're moving to something bigger and better. but it was actually the environment that was allowing you to play at your at your best. And so then you go to a new environment, you have to adapt, you have to find new friends, you have to gel with a team, click, all that kind of stuff, new coach, different instructions. And and it doesn't allow you to play in the same way. those those kinds of things are yeah, it's nice when you have hindsight on that kind of stuff. But yeah, environment is a big one. but I think yeah, we we have we've definitely gone a long way away from just play for my team, play for my club, you know. I think it's it's I think it's hard though, because as a even myself when I was younger, I changed teams through my Teenage years, maybe two or three times. Because I think players have ambition. would I do that again? Nope. If I have a child that's happy somewhere, I'll probably advise them to stay there. But if the child ultimately wants to go, it's very hard to stop because especially if they're competitive and have ambition, you know. they don't have the hindsight around those other things. That being said, as well, Australia, in terms of like we already spoke about pathways and how easy or hard it is to to create a professional career here. I think it's more difficult. And so therefore, because there is no obvious pathway, it is just okay, I'm moving here, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And it's a lot of a lot of stress for the parents too, you know, it's a panic. Jani Schmidt: Unfortunately, maybe the last question on the coaching side on you side when you as a coach for like an alien academy go out and watch players, what is maybe one trade besides the topic of like I can see this kid is like loving the ball and spend a lot of time with it. What is maybe one trade that generally comes across a lot of place and then get selected that you like that, you know, coaches are looking for A-League academies are looking for like the next level. What is that one trait or biggest part that that you guys will be looking for, that you will be looking for because every coach is different as well. Daniel: Yeah. it's look, if they love the ball, that's a that's a that's a start, right? That's fantastic. But then it's more their understanding of how to use their their ability, how to use their skill. especially at the age that we bring the players into the academy, them understanding 2 vs 1 moments is very big. Very big. Them understanding when to play with less touches or to play with more touches. is very big. And that's not the same for all players, as I'm sure you've experienced. So the the quicker you can understand that I think, yeah, as a young player, the quicker you can understand or the the quicker your coach helps you understand that, okay, in this moment you had space. So you need to play with more touches and you need to go forward. in this moment you had to hold the ball. So you need to play with more touches. In this moment you didn't scan, you didn't see the people on the opposite side. Here you need to move the ball quickly. You know, so you have to receive, play, receive, play, because the ball in this moment is going to travel quicker if we if we do this. I think that's also though, that does fall on the coaching a lot. because you can have kids as well that slow the game down just because they're playing with two touches. Like try and make a pass and you could have carried the ball. try and play Jani Schmidt: Yes. Daniel: one. Try and play first time when you need to hold on to it. Try and play with many touches when you need to play first time. You know? and it's seeing those moments, understanding that. But that is that at our, I feel like at our academy in Melbourne City, is the technical stuff first. Then there is obviously some kids that have certain physical traits already that makes a big difference. But that part of it is is probably the deciding part, it's the biggest part. Jani Schmidt: I think that's one of the biggest problems that's not coached enough in terms of like the technical side of things like you said how to find a solution in a 2v1, 2v2, 3v2. I think that part is massively is lacking and

the coaching side of that is lacking as well across what I've seen that a lot of players like you said when they have to dribble they play with two touches when they should be playing with two touches they dribble and that difference that I believe players can learn through repetition themselves, but also through watching the game and understanding these moments more and more and more is a big part. But that's something we, I've talked about in other episodes that like other coaches have said, that other players have said, it's like, yeah, watching the game makes such a big difference. And that's like just a reminder, a discharge to everyone, like use the footages out there. Back when we were growing up, it was way harder to watch full games because you wouldn't just even get access to it now. Yes, there's a time difference, but you can still watch replays. You can watch all the games from the World Cup. You could watch all the League games. There's access to all of that. I think as a player, if you're really serious about your own development and making it, you have to do that. Daniel maybe we've spent a lot of time now talking, maybe to bring the conversation to an end. And I appreciate all the insights and I'm sure that a lot of parents and players will get a lot of insights from this conversation as well. The last part will be like I introduced to you at the beginning will be a few like more stoppage time questions a bit easier. You can answer them quite short and sharp whatever comes to mind. And then yeah, we're gonna wrap up the episode. I think two parts, a lot of insight. Question number one, and I know you've traveled to a lot of different places, but what was the most unexpected place that football has taken you? Daniel: Tunisia. Tunisia is the most unexpected place. Yeah. Yeah. Tunisia in the north in North Africa, that was the most unexpected place. Yeah, definitely. Jani Schmidt: Okay, maybe a little reason why. Daniel: A reason why. I always wanted to go to as many continents as possible. I'd not been to Africa. and it's not I don't know, like in in Australia we have a like a lot of travel guides and warnings and things like this. you know, we spoke about how safe the country is pre earlier in the episode. and it's not really a place I would have gone if I didn't have football, if I didn't have football taking me there. so probably, yeah, there and maybe even Biosko Biala in Poland. So that was an unbelievable place as well. Like it was a step Jani Schmidt: Okay. Daniel: back in time. So yeah, those are probably the two most obscure if I can have two. Yeah. Jani Schmidt: Yeah. Okay, perfect. In the first part of the episode, you mentioned a few names that you came across with Futsal and playing. So I have two different questions. The first one is who was the best player you played with in your whole career? Daniel: best player I played with. Jani Schmidt: and why Daniel: That's yeah, that's difficult. That's difficult. Like if we if we say like, are we talking ex exhibition games or are we talking futsal or are we talking Jani Schmidt: You choose, you choose, what you think fits. Daniel: I'd say Tim Cahill then. Yeah. So when I was I played with Douglas Costa, but I think in terms of like this podcast, we talk about Australian players, we talk about what it yeah, like he he went to England at a young age, found his way through Millwall, then went to Everton, like yeah, I think he's he's one of those unbelievable examples, you know? I was lucky enough to play with him in in Qatar, in Doha. We played in the nine seven four pitch and they had like a six a side setup. And in that game I played with Tim and against Cafu. So that was pretty cool. Jani Schmidt: And what made him special? was the one part that you're like, just stay in your memory? Daniel: it's just I think it's it's the it's it's who he is in in Australian football, right? Like Jani Schmidt: Okay. Daniel: him him scoring the two goals against Japan, him scoring the volley against the Netherlands, him going to four World Cups, his career at Everton. yeah, Jani Schmidt: Okay. Daniel: it's he's just a he's a reference for Australian football and I I suppose that's why, you know? Jani Schmidt: Perfect. So then the second question. Now you can't say Kaffu because you already mentioned who is the best player you played against. Daniel: Yeah, Falcão. The the best football player in the in the ever, you know. There's or Falcau or Ricardinho and yeah, Falcau was unbelievable. He was unbelievable. Like technically, everything he could do at the age of like 40 when he played when he came here and played against us in Melbourne was yeah, just ridiculous, incredible. Jani Schmidt: Yeah, I imagine. I imagine. Last one. If there's one moment if you could relive it again, football related, which one would it be? Daniel: Football related, could I relive? there's many. Yeah, I'm just thinking. I'm just thinking. Cause there was some good times. but football related, yeah. Probably walking out, first time walking out, either playing in Spain or playing in the Champions League. And the feeling that you you you got, like in Spain there was only like maybe three hundred people or maybe two hundred people, it's just families and stuff. But it was so loud. The noise was so loud. And the feeling that went through your body. And then the Champions League was like, I think between five thousand, ten thousand people watching that game. and we played against the hosts, we played against Biosh Bioshka Biala in the first game of the group. And that was and not that it was hostile, but you could you could feel like the energy. I remember all my like all the hairs on the back of my neck and my body. I remember my my my back stiffening. I remember thinking to myself, like, I'm gonna get injured. I that was my first thought. I was like, I'm gonna be injured here, man. My my body's like too stiff. But then the game started and it was it was fine.

It was fine, you know? Like we yeah, we ended up getting destroyed. we were in the game for a long time, but then yeah, we ended up getting destroyed. But I'm still, happy with how I played that match. So it was good. Jani Schmidt: great memories. To pass on the last piece of advice, you've already shared a lot of different knowledge and Daniel: Yeah. Jani Schmidt: what you would say to young players for football, futsal social media. summarizing everything and maybe for the main part of this podcast of like being a make it players trying to make it to the professional level or making a full-time career in football. What would be your best piece of advice to every young player out there aspiring that? Daniel: first of all, you have to love the game with like such a obsession, such a crazy obsession. And the reason the reason being is like it's like it's easy for I think it's easier for people to say you need to be obsessed, you know, but I I don't do anything else. I still don't do anything else. Football's my only it's my outlet, it's the way I relax, it's the way I de-stress, it's my work. It's my free time. It's what I watch on TV. It's when I wind down, I play video games, football. Like I don't I don't think about anything else. I don't do anything else. And I'm not not saying that you, you know, because that can be unhealthy as well. I think I I don't think I find a balance with it, but I think I find what works for me. you know? I don't not say you have to do that, but you've got to be obsessed to the point where You love the game so much that when the things go wrong, or when the path differentiates, or when it's not, you know, you're you're in adversity, you're in stress, you're in pressure, you're injured, you're away from home, you don't have help, you're running out of money, your the your agent does something you weren't planning. Hmm. You're, you know, all these other kind of things that happen in football that I've seen. people on your podcast previously also talk about. When those things happen, I always go back to what my first three years were like at my club and in in in in my in my own little world when I was just kicking around, juggling, trying to learn things, this and that. And that was like the basis of what built my passion for the game and obsession. But it's also what will keep you going. Because and I think it's why people talk about loving the ball, right? it's a bit long winded this this advice, but I had the opportunity to meet Harry Kewel and I asked him, I said, When you're at Liverpool and you were injured and you you know, you you you got better, I said, Then you got injured again. I said, And then you know, you have to train it up again, then you have to get stronger, you have to I said, What what keeps you going? And he looked at me and he like he was a yeah, a bit taken aback. It was a bit of a serious question, I suppose. All the other questions were like, What's your favorite color? And who do you like from Liverpool? And you know, things like this. and he said, as soon as I could get on the ball, he goes, I'd go and juggle. I'd go and juggle. So you go out there, you have the f the fresh air. Sometimes the rain is amazing, sometimes the sun is amazing, but you're juggling, juggling, juggling. And you can do this for like forty minutes. And i I I found a lot of like similarity in that. 'Cause even if I'm stressed now or things are going pear shaped in my life, I'll take the ball and I'll go to the wall or I go to my local park and I just juggle and I put music in and I go to a different place and I'm like, no, you know what? Everything's gonna be all right, it'll all sort itself out. So far it already has. So and and it's just about that. And it's just because things that have become hard in my life that I didn't love, you stop. I I've I've stopped. And I think other people stop. So you need to find a reason that keeps you going and you need to be obsessed and you need to love it, you know, because your love will be tested. That's the best way I can explain Jani Schmidt: Perfect. Daniel: it. Jani Schmidt: I love it. I think that's very relatable. Daniel, amazing two parts of this episode. Let's see what people will like more. The first part of the second part, getting to know you and then your advice. I think there's a lot of valuable insights in this one. So thanks a lot for coming on. I'm sure we will stay in touch as well. And Irwin, I come to Melbourne, I'm going to visit you and going to test if you can still do all the skills that you used to do on social media. Daniel: Sure, let's go for a gig. Jani Schmidt: And I'm definitely gonna challenge you to a game of two touch, that's for sure. Daniel: Yeah, okay, okay, we can do it. We can do it. Let's do it. Done. Thank thank you for having me. Jani Schmidt: Okay, perfect my man. Thanks a lot for coming on.