Ep. 4 - Talking mentoring and mentorship with Dr. Natalie Hart의 전체 녹취록

--> 00:05:21.992 So you have experienced going through sort of the educational system that wasn't necessarily designed for you as someone who's trying to like get access and get your degree and discover the hidden curriculum of college and all that. 00:05:21.992 --> 00:05:25.382 So mentors must have had a huge role. 00:05:25.733 --> 00:05:29.302 Where, where did you find your first mentors? 00:05:29.302 --> 00:05:32.182 Was it back in third grade that you said, it just clicked, I'm gonna 00:05:32.182 --> 00:05:32.932 be a doctor? 00:05:33.952 --> 00:05:38.362 I guess that's probably where I started dreaming big. 00:05:38.552 --> 00:05:43.858 I remember having a wonderful teacher in elementary school. 00:05:44.278 --> 00:05:46.137 This had to have been maybe yes. 00:05:46.137 --> 00:05:48.807 Second or second or third grade. 00:05:49.237 --> 00:05:52.288 And her name is miss Rita Tyler. 00:05:52.617 --> 00:05:53.877 I'll never forget her. 00:05:53.877 --> 00:05:57.327 She was also like my first like Latina teacher. 00:05:57.387 --> 00:05:59.187 I identify as Afro-Latina. 00:05:59.192 --> 00:06:13.242 And it was just cool to like, See somebody who reminded me as one of my, my aunties or TIAs and the way that she was just so like, loving with us, like all of us were her children in class. 00:06:13.247 --> 00:06:15.444 And yeah, it just made me feel like. 00:06:16.398 --> 00:06:21.327 Welcomed or like, this is a trusted adult for me, outside of my home. 00:06:21.398 --> 00:06:21.817 Mm-hmm. 00:06:22.218 --> 00:06:27.437 And I, and I always remembered her telling me always dream big. 00:06:27.442 --> 00:06:30.257 Like, and sharing that with the class, always dream big. 00:06:30.677 --> 00:06:34.497 And it's like little stuff you don't think that will actually stick. 00:06:35.163 --> 00:06:41.302 With someone or you, you don't think that, wow, I'll, I'll think about that for the rest of my life, type of thing. 00:06:41.632 --> 00:06:51.142 But yeah, she, she started, you know, planting those little seeds early and the whole dreaming big was, was just something that stuck with me. 00:06:51.293 --> 00:06:56.612 That, if you, if your dreams don't overwhelm you, you're not dreaming big enough. 00:06:56.913 --> 00:06:57.182 Wow. 00:06:57.187 --> 00:07:05.713 And so I think that was That was something I thought of when I thought about what do I wanna be when I grow up, when I was eight years old and, and yeah. 00:07:05.713 --> 00:07:07.242 And I was like, I wanna be a doctor. 00:07:07.333 --> 00:07:08.202 I wanna be a doctor. 00:07:08.562 --> 00:07:13.122 I, I originally wanted to be a doctor who went to outer space. 00:07:14.343 --> 00:07:14.562 All 00:07:17.112 --> 00:07:17.403 true. 00:07:17.463 --> 00:07:22.452 Not cause Cause she said dream big. 00:07:22.663 --> 00:07:22.752 Yes. 00:07:22.752 --> 00:07:26.202 Sometimes I wanna go to outta space and I wanna be a doctor. 00:07:28.642 --> 00:07:32.593 And but yeah, that, that was the original premise around being a doctor. 00:07:32.642 --> 00:07:38.793 And so, you know, I had to hone that dream chip away at it to, you know, make some realizations. 00:07:38.793 --> 00:07:43.533 Okay, maybe space is not where I'm gonna go, but I still wanna be a doctor. 00:07:44.173 --> 00:07:55.333 And so I think my parents, they probably still have that old picture that I drew, cuz you could drew, you know, draw a picture of who you saw yourself as in that big dream. 00:07:55.843 --> 00:08:04.833 And yeah, I remember drawing like an astronaut helmet and I had like a stethoscope that I put around my neck in the picture that I drew. 00:08:05.163 --> 00:08:09.543 I'll have to like find that one day, one day when I have my permanent residence. 00:08:09.862 --> 00:08:12.142 I, I wanna put that in like a shadow box. 00:08:12.447 --> 00:08:20.338 But yeah, that, that was my, my first introduction to I think a mentor who I felt comfortable talking to. 00:08:20.548 --> 00:08:23.158 And that, yeah, that was, that was in the third grade. 00:08:23.487 --> 00:08:24.148 Wow. 00:08:24.807 --> 00:08:25.348 Wow. 00:08:25.348 --> 00:08:32.878 So now I know you did your, your PhD and you did some research on a program in Oakland on mentorship. 00:08:33.238 --> 00:08:37.077 So I know that's jumping ahead a little, but I'm, I am jumping around, so that's ok. 00:08:37.798 --> 00:08:40.408 What kinds of things did you learn from that? 00:08:40.908 --> 00:08:47.977 And how much did the experience you have lead you to pick that as a dissertation topic? 00:08:48.577 --> 00:08:49.327 Yes. 00:08:49.378 --> 00:08:57.067 So I wrote about a wonderful organization located in Oakland, California within Oakland Unified Schools. 00:08:57.638 --> 00:08:59.378 It's called King Makers of Oakland. 00:08:59.437 --> 00:09:07.268 They originally kind of stemmed from the African American male achievement initiative that was started there. 00:09:07.268 --> 00:09:09.097 They're the first school district I believe. 00:09:09.118 --> 00:09:18.847 In the nation to have an office that was dedicated to the achievement or advancement of young black males within that school district. 00:09:19.298 --> 00:09:26.173 I first kind of latched onto the idea or concept of this targeted universalism. 00:09:26.893 --> 00:09:35.423 And so this theory of if you targeted your most vulnerable population and help them to be successful. 00:09:35.602 --> 00:09:43.202 It'll be kind of a, a trickle down effect or how a drop of water goes into, a body of water and just ripples out. 00:09:43.202 --> 00:09:45.033 So this ripple, ripple effect. 00:09:45.768 --> 00:09:52.018 Of goodness and, and success for others that these students will also interact with and be around. 00:09:52.437 --> 00:10:07.898 So after they spent their time in being empowered in these classrooms and learning from someone who mirrored them not just physically, but Emotionally and some of their own like experiences, life experiences these young men could

resonate with. 00:10:08.528 --> 00:10:20.977 And they would spend this time in the classroom and be learning about, you know like the true origin of African history, that their history didn't start at slavery, but your history starts as royalty. 00:10:20.977 --> 00:10:44.388 You are kings and queens and, or, or, well, for the young ladies they would interact with outside of the classroom, that those are queens and with their This new sense of empowerment and, and thinking, right, dreaming bigger than who they were and knowing that who they interact with it is gonna be a representation sometimes of everybody who looks like them. 00:10:44.393 --> 00:10:50.842 Being your, your best self and, and being able to show that to others was super important. 00:10:51.232 --> 00:10:55.342 And then just some life skills and things that they may not be receiving at home. 00:10:55.403 --> 00:11:09.432 For some of these young men, they were very much influenced by the east Oakland neighborhoods and some of the folks who were not on the best pathways in life and had some negative influences there. 00:11:10.143 --> 00:11:37.082 That they were able to counteract those influences in this classroom by, you know, seeing these upstanding gentlemen who look like them, where they thought that, you know, the person who's standing on the street corner who looks like they have a lot of money, but is it, you know, involved in some negative activities that they think, whoa, that's a fast track to success because that person has a nice car or maybe nice clothes or nice shoes, and I want that. 00:11:37.753 --> 00:11:46.253 But they were able to see also these other men who were dressed nicely, or also express themselves, however they wanted to, to express themselves. 00:11:46.702 --> 00:11:49.793 And they were like, I can be a part of that too. 00:11:50.153 --> 00:11:56.677 So I used to be a high school counselor in Tacoma at a wonderful high school called Stadium High School. 00:11:57.038 --> 00:12:02.227 If you've ever seen the movie, 10 Things I Hate About You, this is the school from that movie. 00:12:02.977 --> 00:12:05.498 So yes, the rest in Peace Heath Ledger. 00:12:06.128 --> 00:12:10.038 But I'd love to bring that up to folks that I'm like, oh, here's what's my office. 00:12:10.217 --> 00:12:15.197 And the ballroom is where the students have lunche in and it's really nice. 00:12:15.197 --> 00:12:17.597 And it's the Hogwarts of Tacoma. 00:12:18.347 --> 00:12:29.437 But while I was a high school counselor, I had the opportunity to attend a conference called COSEBOC which stands for Coalition of Schools educating Boys of Color. 00:12:30.008 --> 00:12:41.447 And once I learned about this conference and the influence that it can have for young men of color in our school districts and institutions. 00:12:41.447 --> 00:12:43.217 I was like, I wanna be a part of that. 00:12:43.618 --> 00:12:52.607 I had learned about some data around some of our students at Stadium High School, especially our young men of color during the time I was there. 00:12:52.998 --> 00:13:15.977 And I took it upon myself to build a conference for our young men of color, for them to have an opportunity to learn the resources that Stadium can provide if they were not aware, in addition for us to have a listening session where they could tell us what stadium is doing wrong and what we can improve on to best serve them. 00:13:16.427 --> 00:13:32.548 And I think oftentimes, right when we develop some of these resources we miss out on asking the actual population what they need instead of just throwing things at them like, you look like you need this, and you look like you need that and it's like, ah, I didn't even want that. 00:13:32.648 --> 00:13:44.498 Here's what I actually need and you know, here's what could help me be more successful and taking that to heart to actually implement some of those changes that the population is asking for. 00:13:45.057 --> 00:13:48.748 And so as a result of building that conference, I had. 00:13:48.957 --> 00:13:51.868 Catered breakfast and lunch for the students. 00:13:51.898 --> 00:13:53.908 We had sectioned out classrooms. 00:13:54.248 --> 00:14:00.128 I got men from the Tacoma and local community to come in and facilitate these sessions. 00:14:00.128 --> 00:14:11.288 I had sets of questions all set up so that they can get all those questions are being asked in all those classrooms so that we can collect that data and learn what stadium could be doing better. 00:14:11.707 --> 00:14:23.393 And as a result of creating something like that at Stadium I think naturally I was drawn to learning how other people around the nation were also serving this community. 00:14:23.842 --> 00:14:25.913 And so that's how I ended up going to the conference. 00:14:25.913 --> 00:14:27.173 And yeah. 00:14:27.173 --> 00:14:33.852 And then at the conference I saw that they were on the agenda as one of the Sessions that you can attend. 00:14:33.852 --> 00:14:37.033 And all the sessions were three hours long with a wow. 00:14:37.092 --> 00:14:38.503 Short break in between. 00:14:38.962 --> 00:14:55.503 And I I was, I was sit sitting in the front row and just listening to the testimonies of some of these students who were either alum or current students of the program, just sharing that because of this program or as a result of, you know, being a part of it. 00:14:56.322 --> 00:15:01.393 I felt like school was home and that just made me tear up while I was there. 00:15:01.393 --> 00:15:19.222 I was like, imagine if more of our students who didn't feel welcome in some of our schools, right, where they may not have staff that mirror them or understand their experience or approach interacting with some of these students with the same empathy that they approach other students. 00:15:19.643 --> 00:15:27.832 Imagine like the differences that we would have in our school system if students could think about school as home. 00:15:28.552 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00:15:38.403 And to hear some of these students say that, that, you know, without this program I would, I would've never called, you know, school as a place that's welcoming. 00:15:38.452 --> 00:15:38.873 Mm-hmm. 00:15:39.217 --> 00:15:46.293 And, you know, because of this program, it makes me want to come to school and it makes me want to stay there. 00:15:46.452 --> 00:15:53.942 And it makes me wanna do well because somebody is holding me accountable and I may not have somebody outside of. 00:15:54.222 --> 00:16:04.582 You know, the classroom or after I leave the doors of, you know, ex school that is holding me accountable to be successful oftentimes. 00:16:04.913 --> 00:16:23.363 Some of these students were sharing that, you know, I'm, I may not have that parental influence that is guiding me or you know, pouring, giving me that growth mindset and pouring into me to mm-hmm to be great and you're going to be great and what can I do to support you to be great? 00:16:23.363 --> 00:16:25.822 It's sometimes it's about survival. 00:16:26.153 --> 00:16:30.533 It's, I have to work two jobs as a parent, so, you know, you just. 00:16:30.673 --> 00:16:34.543 Be responsible for the kid thing, and I'll be responsible for the adult thing. 00:16:34.903 --> 00:16:43.352 And because of, you know, timing and schedules, they don't align to have that sit down talk because it's just go, go, go. 00:16:43.352 --> 00:16:46.682 Or we won't have those over our head or food on the table. 00:16:47.462 --> 00:16:55.202 So your responsibility is be the kid, do what you need to do at school, and I am, you know, handling the bills and stuff like that. 00:16:55.592 --> 00:16:58.773 And so for some of the students to share and. 00:16:59.562 --> 00:17:03.493 Obviously with our experience in education, we've witnessed it ourselves. 00:17:03.942 --> 00:17:07.932 That like some of these students are dealing with very adult problems, right? 00:17:07.932 --> 00:17:17.423 Watching mom and dad or mom or dad or grandparents or who, whatever guardian, they're like working hard to provide for them. 00:17:17.782 --> 00:17:19.153 They, you know, think. 00:17:19.847 --> 00:17:34.817 I need to be doing my part to also provide, and that is sometimes where the disconnect happens, where it's like, well, I'm gonna just move away from school or do bad in school so then I don't have to come back anymore. 00:17:34.817 --> 00:17:36.548 And whoops, now I'm not in school anymore. 00:17:37.053 --> 00:17:41.133 I guess I have to do something else that's gonna generate some money. 00:17:41.432 --> 00:17:50.343 Now that I don't have an education, I don't have access to applying to somewhere that requires a high school diploma or degree or whatever the case may be. 00:17:50.613 --> 00:17:53.763 So I'm gonna be involved in activities that. 00:17:54.518 --> 00:18:03.667 Are, they are not so good for my future so that I can get some fast cash because this is a direct influence I have cuz it's in on my neighborhood corner. 00:18:03.998 --> 00:18:16.718 And that person is able to have access to fast cash and I'm, you know, the student is listening to, you know, whoever the guardian is, or mom and dad complaining perhaps about bills. 00:18:17.167 --> 00:18:23.978 And things like that, that the student is like, that is a priority versus me thinking about what the pythagorean theorem is. 00:18:23.978 --> 00:18:25.567 This is not important to me. 00:18:25.718 --> 00:18:27.758 It's what's going on at home, 00:18:28.178 --> 00:18:28.567 right. 00:18:28.567 --> 00:18:47.458 That long-term, thinking about getting a degree is going to, getting, getting a high school diploma and or then getting a degree is gonna take me to places that are far away, but will ultimately be more beneficial in the long run to me and to my family. 00:18:47.817 --> 00:18:48.597 Yes. 00:18:48.807 --> 00:18:49.847 Yeah, that's really hard. 00:18:50.742 --> 00:18:59.782 Yeah, so at the conference that's when I knew I wanted to be involved with something that was like this program or was this program. 00:19:00.143 --> 00:19:07.792 So I attended this conference in 20 I believe 2016 or 2017, and stayed in touch with the founder of the program. 00:19:07.853 --> 00:19:09.792 His name's Chris Chapman. 00:19:10.073 --> 00:19:10.702 He's amazing. 00:19:11.692 --> 00:19:15.482 And Once I decided like, okay, it's time to be Dr. 00:19:15.482 --> 00:19:24.042 Hart, like I have some really good ideas and I won't receive the salary or the recognition for these ideas until I have doctor in front of my name. 00:19:24.042 --> 00:19:27.373 So I am going to go and get that. 00:19:28.018 --> 00:19:33.127 So once I decided to pursue my doctor's degree that was the first thing I thought of. 00:19:33.127 --> 00:19:35.288 I was like, I want to highlight this program. 00:19:35.288 --> 00:19:36.528 I wanna write about this program. 00:19:37.657 --> 00:19:51.117 And so yeah, like as soon as I got around to choosing what my dissertation topic was, I reached back out to Chris Chapman and I was like, I, I said I wanted to highlight your program and here I am. 00:19:52.167 --> 00:20:05.827 So I wanted to, I wanna, I want everybody to know about the amazing things that you're doing and by the, the end of my time in writing the dissertation and graduating, we now have a king, makers of Seattle. 00:20:06.673 --> 00:20:10.962 So they were able to bring the program and move it north. 00:20:11.232 --> 00:20:13.782 And so I was like surprised since it was already in California. 00:20:13.782 --> 00:20:17.893 Like, oh, why wouldn't you move down south and come towards Los Angeles? 00:20:18.282 --> 00:20:30.877 But they went north and you know, did a hop over Oregon for the time being and went to Seattle and had stakeholders and, and folks that were willing to actually do the work and make this happen, right? 00:20:30.877 --> 00:20:33.728 We find a lot of folks are like, oh yeah, we'd love to do that. 00:20:33.938 -->

00:20:51.458 But when it comes time to talking about funding or actually putting the man and woman power behind, making this work actually work, you know, then it dwindles down to like the person who was initially bringing up the idea and the backing suddenly disappears. 00:20:51.847 --> 00:20:52.117 Right. 00:20:52.117 --> 00:21:08.397 And so I, I was so happy to hear that one of my fraternity brothers Anthony Shoecraft was a part of bringing the program to Seattle Public Schools and now there's an office for African American male achievement in Seattle public schools. 00:21:09.428 --> 00:21:21.048 And so I, I would love to say, because I'm from Washington, that I was an influence in like my work and researching them to also bring it back to my home state. 00:21:21.327 --> 00:21:52.067 But I know that's not the case and that I'm happy that it still happened, but it was just it was gratifying to see that, that like, I'm happy other folks are latching onto the fact that we needed this in Washington state and, and I'm hoping that other folks will see the wonderful work that Chris and his team is doing that other places in the nation will also hop on and bring this program or something similar to their school districts as well. 00:21:52.728 --> 00:21:53.327 Nice. 00:21:53.807 --> 00:21:54.097 Nice. 00:21:54.127 --> 00:22:06.887 Yeah, I, I, when when you see something that you've learned about, you've seen the success that it's had, move to another city to bring that success to other African American men. 00:22:07.367 --> 00:22:11.928 You just think like that is just, it's going to change lives. 00:22:12.423 --> 00:22:16.893 Yes, but it's filling that, but also like to come back to my home. 00:22:17.192 --> 00:22:24.413 Like that, that was the, the biggest like resignation with that was like, wow, like I, I love Tacoma. 00:22:24.413 --> 00:22:42.127 I'm from Tacoma that is my hometown, but to, to be close to home, like that was really monumental to me that like, wow, this is an area that that I'm familiar with and, and I'm so happy that you're gonna do something that is intentional about helping this population. 00:22:42.157 --> 00:22:42.458 Mm-hmm. 00:22:42.907 --> 00:22:43.178 Yeah, 00:22:43.178 --> 00:22:43.958 absolutely. 00:22:44.738 --> 00:22:56.866 So I know, I know that, based on what you did in the high school, which sounds like a really cool conference that you did at Stadium for the students. 00:22:56.866 --> 00:23:11.346 So based on your experience with that and with what you learned through your dissertation, what are some things that I could take away or that someone working in high school could take away and say, oh, I, I could probably do that where I am. 00:23:11.767 --> 00:23:12.307 That would help 00:23:12.307 --> 00:23:12.936 students. 00:23:14.076 --> 00:23:14.646 Yes. 00:23:14.747 --> 00:23:20.326 Well, yeah, I think seeing that there is a need is so very important. 00:23:20.332 --> 00:23:33.886 So having stakeholders that are on board that they also recognize that this is a need, it's alarming and willing to put the, the effort into actually making it happen. 00:23:33.886 --> 00:23:36.106 Like I was stating before, like we've. 00:23:36.497 --> 00:23:48.596 We've talked about these statistics for decades on end, and we're just getting to a point where people are starting to actually wanna put the money behind the work. 00:23:48.957 --> 00:23:53.067 And a lot of people are doing, you know a lot of this guidance work. 00:23:53.507 --> 00:23:55.037 You know, for free. 00:23:55.287 --> 00:24:04.727 And then not having the actual, you know, folks on board to support and help out in a lot of the integral parts of making a program like this happen. 00:24:05.237 --> 00:24:07.396 So I think data, right? 00:24:07.426 --> 00:24:08.987 People lie, but numbers don't. 00:24:09.257 --> 00:24:21.696 So bringing data to your folks at your staff meetings that was kind of like the initial way I introduced the importance of a program happening or some kind of listening session, something. 00:24:22.467 --> 00:24:24.836 So that we can make some positive changes. 00:24:25.257 --> 00:24:34.007 I am definitely, like, when I set my mind to something, it is it is very hard to move me away from making that happen. 00:24:34.007 --> 00:24:35.896 If I say I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. 00:24:36.376 --> 00:24:39.826 And, and I wanna do it to the best of my ability. 00:24:40.156 --> 00:24:54.592 And so I wanted to make sure that I was providing like, The best experience I could possibly you know, make for the students with, with the funds that I had available and, and the, and the folks that I had on board to actually make things happen. 00:24:54.596 --> 00:24:57.892 So we were a small but mighty team. 00:24:58.102 --> 00:25:03.592 There were definitely some folks that were a bit skeptical about making it happen. 00:25:03.922 --> 00:25:20.561 I remember there was a parent who had called the news when this program happened and was like, this is racist, and why does there need to be additional supports for black and brown boys? 00:25:20.592 --> 00:25:21.221 And. 00:25:21.662 --> 00:25:24.211 And then why can't my son be a part of it? 00:25:25.021 --> 00:25:37.922 So I had a couple of my friends who played in the N F L who also came to talk to the young men in the program, cuz I knew that would be a big attraction pa a factor for folks to be involved or for students. 00:25:37.926 --> 00:25:38.261 Mm-hmm. 00:25:38.402 --> 00:25:50.586 And I remember this young man the student of the, of the woman who had called the news and when he approached me about the program, he was like He was like, I, when did the N F L players come? 00:25:50.586 --> 00:25:53.406 Cuz I wanna come to, to meet them. 00:25:53.856 --> 00:26:11.846 And I was like well if you want to be a part of the program, what we're discussing is how to best support your black and brown peers here at Stadium High School if you would like to

participate in the conversation and building some of those ways to support those students. 00:26:12.146 --> 00:26:14.247 You're more than welcome to participate in the conference. 00:26:14.247 --> 00:26:21.267 And then being able to interact with the N F L players is a bonus and is a part of the, of the whole day. 00:26:21.777 --> 00:26:28.826 And so from that conversation, I guess the student took, I'm not allowed to be a part of the program because I'm white. 00:26:29.576 --> 00:26:36.846 And, and I had learned later that the reason he had said that is because he only wanted to meet the N F L player. 00:26:37.717 --> 00:26:38.196 Right? 00:26:38.196 --> 00:26:38.497 Right. 00:26:38.501 --> 00:26:43.666 He wanted to sort of cherry pick and say like, I don't wanna go to the whole conference or sit in on all this. 00:26:43.696 --> 00:26:44.576 I just wanna meet those guys. 00:26:45.207 --> 00:26:45.987 Yes. 00:26:46.497 --> 00:26:56.426 So yeah, so you, you will have some, some haters or some folks that are gonna wanna push back on things that are targeted for specific populations. 00:26:56.787 --> 00:27:00.086 But I think there is a perhaps a. 00:27:00.237 --> 00:27:19.317 A scarcity mindset that people have where if you have something that takes away from me, and I think a lot of our folks that are reluctant to do this work, need to move away from that mindset that because another population gets something, doesn't mean it takes away from you. 00:27:20.096 --> 00:27:20.846 It's to help. 00:27:21.051 --> 00:27:24.741 Boost that population up to be in the same place as you. 00:27:25.041 --> 00:27:27.082 Nothing is getting taken away from you. 00:27:27.082 --> 00:27:29.182 Your life will still be your life. 00:27:29.241 --> 00:27:31.071 Nothing is taken away from you. 00:27:31.402 --> 00:27:47.781 But these students who have been right, historically disenfranchised and have historically Not been best served, deserve to have additional resources in order to help move the needle in equity. 00:27:47.842 --> 00:27:54.261 And if you're truly about equity, you will think from a growth mindset and not that scarcity mindset. 00:27:55.291 --> 00:28:05.576 So I think that was, that was a big barrier for me was coming up against folks who Who were, who were like, well, why can't this just be something for everyone to be a part of? 00:28:05.576 --> 00:28:06.356 This needs to be. 00:28:06.416 --> 00:28:08.126 And I was like, actually, I would love that. 00:28:08.126 --> 00:28:11.396 Can we, can we have the entire school be involved? 00:28:11.487 --> 00:28:17.696 Like so I had one person say that and I was like, well, where's everyone else Who wants to also be involved? 00:28:18.007 --> 00:28:18.011 Right. 00:28:18.152 --> 00:28:24.961 It lots that everyone has a comment, but not everyone wants to put the time and effort into making it happen. 00:28:24.961 --> 00:28:36.307 So it's like all of these, you know different viewpoints coming in, but I, I was a big bulk of the construction and the implementation Yeah. 00:28:36.537 --> 00:28:37.027 Program. 00:28:38.707 --> 00:28:43.386 So just so you presented the data and was everybody like, oh my goodness, Yes. 00:28:43.446 --> 00:29:01.767 Or did you also have to do some, you know, persuading the principal, your colleagues, you know, you present the data and it says clearly like our black and brown students are not doing as well as our white students or as a population, like they're just not doing as well. 00:29:01.771 --> 00:29:08.412 So after you get to that point, Like, how did you convince them to say let's do the conference? 00:29:08.412 --> 00:29:11.741 Because you, you have the people who are gonna say, it should be for everybody. 00:29:11.741 --> 00:29:14.392 And, I am, you're just like, no, I'm Natalie. 00:29:14.392 --> 00:29:16.192 I'm determined this is gonna happen. 00:29:16.612 --> 00:29:19.342 You know, much like the second grade student who is gonna be the doctor. 00:29:19.346 --> 00:29:19.971 Like, this is gonna 00:29:19.971 --> 00:29:20.481 happen. 00:29:20.652 --> 00:29:22.511 I'm gonna space, yeah. 00:29:22.761 --> 00:29:25.582 I'm going our space as a doctor, and that's all there is to it. 00:29:25.882 --> 00:29:26.031 Yeah. 00:29:26.132 --> 00:29:32.882 But I'm listening and I'm like, oh, so you present the data, which is a really good point cuz oftentimes I think we try to do things anecdotally. 00:29:33.271 --> 00:29:33.451 Yeah. 00:29:33.481 --> 00:29:39.846 But to have that hard data and say like, look, this is, this is what's happening is a really good kind of takeaway for folks. 00:29:40.297 --> 00:29:40.826 Like, then 00:29:40.826 --> 00:29:41.426 what happened? 00:29:42.676 --> 00:29:43.517 So, yes. 00:29:43.727 --> 00:29:50.326 So from there I had some folks who were shocked that that was what's going on at Stadium. 00:29:50.567 --> 00:29:56.957 And I had some other staff members who were like, well, that population doesn't want to try hard. 00:29:57.346 --> 00:29:57.436 Mm-hmm. 00:29:57.467 --> 00:30:00.167 So why do we need to do anything extra from them? 00:30:00.527 --> 00:30:08.777 This is extra effort time away from the school day where we could be teaching other stuff, like, and that student needs to be in class. 00:30:09.392 --> 00:30:11.102 So what, what's the point? 00:30:11.311 --> 00:30:11.882 You know? 00:30:12.182 --> 00:30:22.142 And it, and it was really disheartening to come up against some of those folks who, who, who weren't all about the student and making student-centered decisions. 00:30:22.471 --> 00:30:27.192 That sounded really selfish for them to say that that's extra time away from them. 00:30:27.372 --> 00:30:37.112 And now that student's missing more class and, and this is just gonna make them fail even longer or more for more time. 00:30:37.711 --> 00:30:41.396 And like after, yeah, discussing with them like, here is the numbers. 00:30:41.396 --> 00:30:42.807 These have to change. 00:30:43.136

--> 00:30:43.946 These have to change. 00:30:43.946 --> 00:30:51.146 If we truly care about the success of all students and making equitable decisions, we have to change this data. 00:30:51.146 --> 00:30:52.467 This is, this is not okay. 00:30:53.156 --> 00:31:00.257 And I think really coming up in there and, and showing them that like, you can be a part of this change. 00:31:00.257 --> 00:31:06.856 I'm not just here like brand new person, useful person, woman of color on the staff. 00:31:07.231 --> 00:31:15.241 You know, intentional on shaking things up, but I'm intentional about making changes that are benefiting our students. 00:31:15.751 --> 00:31:20.261 And so Eventually, my, my principal was already on board. 00:31:20.291 --> 00:31:28.852 I had talked initially and I already had a personal relationship with him cuz he happened to be my vice principal when I was in high school. 00:31:29.182 --> 00:31:39.061 So he just happened to also be my, my boss at this point in time and he already knew the determined student I was in high school. 00:31:39.061 --> 00:31:50.192 And so he is like, I I see all the kind of things that you did at Foss So I, I knew when I brought you on my staff, you were gonna come and shake some stuff up here, so that's why I wanted you on my team. 00:31:50.196 --> 00:32:00.457 So I, he already had the backing from him especially cuz I wanted to do all, you know, the work ahead of time by gathering that data, disaggregating the data. 00:32:00.622 --> 00:32:04.971 Just for my own curiosity, I was just like, how are we serving these students? 00:32:04.971 --> 00:32:08.001 I, I was curious on, on my own. 00:32:08.432 --> 00:32:21.227 I think for, for other folks who are thinking about that, that's probably important for when those data reports come out from your, you know, senior staff counselors, whatever the case may be. 00:32:21.666 --> 00:32:23.336 Actually take a look at that data. 00:32:23.412 --> 00:32:30.951 Sometimes it's like the data is right there in front of us, but folks don't wanna say anything about, some of those glaring numbers. 00:32:30.951 --> 00:32:37.672 They'll, they're like, well, we just, we did the data because we're required to, but we like what we're doing and what we're doing is fine. 00:32:37.942 --> 00:32:45.142 And as we know, right, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results of insanity. 00:32:45.142 --> 00:32:45.662 Insanity. 00:32:46.102 --> 00:32:51.922 So you don't want to keep doing the same thing over and over if our populations are continuing to evolve. 00:32:52.326 --> 00:32:57.037 Right past practices are not applicable to future changes. 00:32:57.241 --> 00:32:59.001 Mm, you called me on that. 00:32:59.332 --> 00:33:11.182 But it's so very important that you're constantly involving in the way that you serve students and create access points for opportunities to, for social mobility, right? 00:33:11.182 --> 00:33:17.211 And, and equitable access to opportunities that are beyond the high school. 00:33:17.632 --> 00:33:23.406 And I think sometimes if we're thinking in the K through 12 area, It should be right. 00:33:23.406 --> 00:33:25.497 It's supposed to be cradle to career. 00:33:25.676 --> 00:33:34.537 We should be approaching the way that we're serving students from how, we're getting the best set up so that they can graduate and make it onto a best career. 00:33:34.656 --> 00:33:36.426 It's not just getting a job, right? 00:33:36.426 --> 00:33:45.936 A job is what just pays the bills, but we want them to be in a career space that they can actually get promoted and move up and do something within their craft or interest. 00:33:46.531 --> 00:33:56.412 And I think folks, and maybe sometimes our, our veteran folks that are, serving maybe, just elementary, just middle school, just high school or whatever the case may be. 00:33:56.682 --> 00:33:59.261 You're, you're stuck in, I did my part here. 00:33:59.652 --> 00:33:59.741 Mm-hmm. 00:34:00.176 --> 00:34:12.016 And this is all that I can do instead of what can I do to continue to guide them and move them along so they're doing something more beyond when they leave these doors. 00:34:12.407 --> 00:34:12.646 Right? 00:34:12.677 --> 00:34:12.947 What 00:34:12.947 --> 00:34:19.817 gets them ready for the next part, for the next, not just, not just what gets them ready right now, but what gets them ready for what comes next. 00:34:19.822 --> 00:34:19.996 Yes. 00:34:20.891 --> 00:34:40.822 Because that, that was something that I shared with the staff members as well, is we, we shouldn't just be focused on just getting them across the stage, but if you're just, you know, allowing them to skate by or just letting them get seized, how does that prepare them for being a competitive applicant to a college one day, if they're just getting by? 00:34:41.757 --> 00:34:49.896 So we gotta change the way that we're approaching, the way that we're serving students to, that we are setting high expectations for them. 00:34:50.257 --> 00:35:00.512 And then when the students hear that we care about you doing more beyond, you know, when you leave these doors that that is gonna make them wanna step it up as well too. 00:35:00.512 --> 00:35:01.711 Wow, someone actually cares. 00:35:01.711 --> 00:35:03.271 Someone's holding me accountable. 00:35:03.271 --> 00:35:08.702 Someone wants more for me when I might not even be thinking I deserve more. 00:35:09.092 --> 00:35:09.291 Right? 00:35:09.291 --> 00:35:09.652 Mm-hmm. 00:35:10.012 --> 00:35:36.416 And and I think in my time working there and hearing some of those students feel like they're not deserving of more than just a high school education or that's just enough, and I'm like, You have grown up with the idea of just enough being enough, but I wanna plant the seed inside of your mind that just enough is never enough, that you always deserve more. 00:35:36.836 --> 00:35:43.677 And just because you haven't seen it

before doesn't mean that it's not within your reach that you ignore. 00:35:44.487 --> 00:35:46.976 Yeah, I, and yeah, I see that. 00:35:47.487 --> 00:36:06.061 I, you know, my philosophy is that, I see the potential in all the students and they don't see it yet necessarily, and so I feel like my role is to help them see what I see sometimes and say we are playing small. 00:36:07.681 --> 00:36:11.012 There's so much that you can do that you're ready to do. 00:36:12.496 --> 00:36:22.376 Let me encourage you, nudge you, coerce you, cajole you, you know, yes to get you to where you can see all these things you can do. 00:36:22.376 --> 00:36:25.856 And then, and then like then, and then I just get outta the way. 00:36:27.987 --> 00:36:30.086 And I mean, I felt that way at the University of Washington. 00:36:30.086 --> 00:36:31.737 I feel that way now in my current job. 00:36:31.737 --> 00:36:34.947 It's like, I, I'll, I'll connect you, you know? 00:36:35.336 --> 00:36:37.677 That's so much of what I think we do as educators. 00:36:37.681 --> 00:36:46.867 We're connectors and helping people find where they need to go and find who is going to really feed them and they're gonna feel like they belong there. 00:36:46.867 --> 00:36:55.507 And then once they find that and they find what it is they wanna do, and that career piece, not just a job, but that career piece, it, you step out of the way and you just watch. 00:36:56.226 --> 00:36:57.007 Watch students 00:36:57.007 --> 00:36:57.547 take off. 00:36:58.146 --> 00:36:58.297 Yeah. 00:36:58.817 --> 00:36:59.106 Yeah. 00:36:59.217 --> 00:37:06.746 And just as a point of gratitude for you, Jen, I'm so grateful that you were a part of my journey and you were a part of my life. 00:37:06.746 --> 00:37:12.146 If I haven't expressed that enough to you before, I was like, it makes me emotional thinking about it. 00:37:12.146 --> 00:37:15.072 But I think about just as a quick anecdote. 00:37:15.407 --> 00:37:23.146 My first quarter at the University of Washington and feeling like, you know, I'm one of the smartest people coming outta Tacoma right now. 00:37:23.567 --> 00:37:29.856 And and I took it upon myself to make my own schedule cuz I wanted to be an astronaut doctor. 00:37:29.862 --> 00:37:29.907 Right. 00:37:30.871 --> 00:37:38.733 And I did chemistry and bio and calculus all in that first year and did horrible bull. 00:37:39.422 --> 00:37:42.992 My GPA was like a 1.9. 00:37:43.632 --> 00:37:56.882 I had went and talked to an academic advisor And I'll, I'll never forget her name, I'll keep that to myself but I did dedicate my dissertation if you wanna find out who, who she is. 00:37:57.371 --> 00:38:27.052 But when I had met with her, this woman, and I hope she no longer works at the University of Washington, but she, she had told me after looking, like, spending five minutes and looking me up and down and then looking at my transcript just the one quarter I was at UDub, not taking into account the stellar student I was at FOSS High School, taking International Baccalaureate program and getting an IB diploma graduating with one A minus on my transcript from high school. 00:38:27.271 --> 00:38:27.722 Like. 00:38:28.422 --> 00:38:30.161 Just killing it and everything. 00:38:30.282 --> 00:38:42.222 But she just looked at the one quarter I was at U-Dub and, and thought that I wasn't trying hard enough and she said that, well, you know, your people don't usually do well in higher education. 00:38:42.231 --> 00:38:42.521 Yeah. 00:38:42.702 --> 00:38:51.802 So she was like, you might wanna consider doing something an easier route like going to community college and maybe the University of Washington can be in your future. 00:38:53.211 --> 00:39:02.121 So she told me that my first quarter at U-Dub, and I was so grateful that like I, I met folks like yourself. 00:39:02.121 --> 00:39:07.192 I don't think I had like visited you yet to like actually have a sit down one-on-one. 00:39:07.731 --> 00:39:14.001 But I knew you were, and I'm grateful that I actually took advantage, right, of those resources and, and a mentor. 00:39:14.172 --> 00:39:39.431 Held my hand and was like, you need to go talk to people like Jen and I talked to another person, Joe Nathan, Thomas and those conversations were so monumental in me staying at the University of Washington because after talking that one, Five, 10 minute conversation with that woman I was going to drop out of UDub, I thought I did not belong there at all. 00:39:39.431 --> 00:39:42.851 And I was like, well, my grades clearly show I don't belong here. 00:39:43.152 --> 00:39:44.442 I don't deserve this. 00:39:44.771 --> 00:39:47.222 This is a fluke that I even got into UDub. 00:39:47.882 --> 00:39:52.632 It was a mistake that like, I got this scholarship like I had. 00:39:53.021 --> 00:40:02.271 So many negative feelings, and I'm just, yeah, so grateful that like I met folks like yourself who are like, you are so deserving and, and made me feel so welcome. 00:40:02.802 --> 00:40:04.902 Like, yeah, I'm, I'm grateful. 00:40:04.902 --> 00:40:06.972 So if you don't already hear it enough. 00:40:07.601 --> 00:40:07.992 Thank you. 00:40:07.992 --> 00:40:08.472 Thank you. 00:40:08.911 --> 00:40:11.021 That, that means, that means a lot. 00:40:11.021 --> 00:40:15.942 And I was just, I was so excited to talk to you cuz in some ways this is so full circle, right? 00:40:15.942 --> 00:40:16.692 Like I'm, yeah. 00:40:16.722 --> 00:40:27.112 You, I, I work, I've spent so many years now working with first generation students and now I'm doing a podcast talking to educators about how to serve first gen students. 00:40:27.411 --> 00:40:31.961 And here I am talking to a former student, you know, who's now a, a doctor. 00:40:32.652 --> 00:40:36.672 Has a PhD and is going on to do great things. 00:40:36.672 --> 00:40:47.291 So, so to close, how can people connect with you if people have resonated with what you've said or they're like, Ooh,

I wanna find out more, and I will link to your dissertation in the show notes in case anybody wants to look at it. 00:40:47.891 --> 00:40:49.702 You know, how, how can people connect with you and find you? 00:40:50.927 --> 00:40:58.496 Yes, you can hop onto LinkedIn and connect with me there and and yeah, and we can go from there. 00:40:58.501 --> 00:41:05.097 If you want to set up a time to hop on a, a call for Zoom or teams or Google meet, whatever works for you. 00:41:05.726 --> 00:41:10.867 Or if you happen to be in the LA area, we would like to meet for coffee totally open for that too. 00:41:10.867 --> 00:41:12.036 But yes, yes, reach out. 00:41:12.036 --> 00:41:12.996 Reach out on LinkedIn. 00:41:12.996 --> 00:41:13.686 That'll be great. 00:41:14.032 --> 00:41:14.452 Okay. 00:41:14.512 --> 00:41:19.072 Or if they happen to be at Disneyland on maybe one Friday a month, they might find 00:41:19.072 --> 00:41:19.222 you. 00:41:19.222 --> 00:41:19.402 Yes. 00:41:19.922 --> 00:41:26.331 As you can see from my background, I am an avid Disney fan, an avid Disneyland goer. 00:41:26.336 --> 00:41:27.952 I try to go once a month. 00:41:27.981 --> 00:41:37.347 I'm currently charging my magic key pass right now because I'm going to California Adventure today, so I'm I'm very excited. 00:41:38.067 --> 00:41:38.637 Awesome. 00:41:38.666 --> 00:41:39.117 I love it. 00:41:39.121 --> 00:41:39.387 Love it. 00:41:39.387 --> 00:41:44.217 We'll have to do another interview about how lessons from Disney can help first gen students. 00:41:44.217 --> 00:41:45.387 I'll fi we'll, we'll have to think 00:41:45.387 --> 00:41:46.077 of something about that. 00:41:46.077 --> 00:41:46.887 Oh, I love that. 00:41:46.891 --> 00:41:47.487 Yes. 00:41:47.887 --> 00:41:49.996 Well, thank you so much Dr. 00:41:49.996 --> 00:41:51.976 Natalie Hart for joining me today. 00:41:52.047 --> 00:41:58.681 I really appreciate it and I think there's some really good takeaways that you served up for us to hear. 00:41:58.681 --> 00:42:04.411 So thank you and I hope you have a wonderful rest of your afternoon and time at Disney, California Adventure. 00:42:04.802 --> 00:42:05.222 Thank you. 00:42:06.061 --> 00:42:06.331 Thank you. 00:42:06.331 --> 00:42:10.981 Thank you so very much, and hopefully one day we'll be able to go together. 00:42:11.101 --> 00:42:12.032 That'll be cool. 00:42:12.722 --> 00:42:12.902 I 00:42:12.902 --> 00:42:13.652 would love that. 00:42:13.742 --> 00:42:14.822 I would love that. 00:42:17.371 --> 00:42:19.652 I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dr. 00:42:19.652 --> 00:42:20.402 Natalie Hart. 00:42:20.402 --> 00:42:33.331 As much as I did, it was my pleasure to learn from her, to hear about some of her takeaways about getting data, about listening to students and about learning more about mentorship. 00:42:34.351 --> 00:42:38.882 If you want to reach her, I will link all of her information in the show notes. 00:42:39.242 --> 00:42:42.271 So you can find her and check out her dissertation if you want to. 00:42:42.782 --> 00:42:47.041 And as always, if you want to find me, I am@firstgenfm.com. 00:42:47.101 --> 00:42:50.282 Feel free to check out my webpage and sign up for my newsletter. 00:42:50.282 --> 00:42:51.092 I would love that. 00:42:51.572 --> 00:42:58.561 And you can also email me at Jen that's Jen@firstgenfm.com fm.com. 00:42:59.402 --> 00:43:00.661 Thank you for joining me. 00:43:00.692 --> 00:43:03.121 I hope you learned a few things like I did. 00:43:03.452 --> 00:43:16.621 And if you want to be on the podcast, reach out to me because I'd be happy to talk to you and learn about all of the cool things you are doing to serve and celebrate first-generation college bound and college students. 00:43:17.402 --> 00:43:18.512 That's it for today. 00:43:18.771 --> 00:43:20.931 I will talk to you again next week. 00:43:21.291 --> 00:43:21.742 Bye now.