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Jay: I would like to begin by acknowledging that this is the land of the Wurundjeri people. They came first. They were here telling stories long before us. Storytelling is such an important part of their culture, and I hope to honour this throughout the podcast.
Jay: Something that I've really, that's really helped me now, like three months later, is remembering that all of those things are just physical things and I try and build my life on all the things you can't see, like love and friendships and family, and even just all my past experiences, all my memories, all my skills, like all those things are things that can never be taken away from you.
Liz: Welcome to the podcast, ‘Finding Steady Ground’.
Liz: Where young people speak honestly about their experiences following disasters. Created by the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters in partnership with Phoenix Australia, this podcast explores the experiences of young people navigating their mental health after disaster events.
Liz: Across the series, you’re going to meet five young people who will share their personal stories, reflections, and the lessons they’ve learned through adversity. Through open and honest conversations, they’ll explore themes of recovery, connection and hope.
Liz: Hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina, each episode offers practical strategies, insights, and guidance to support the mental health and wellbeing of young people impacted by disasters.
Liz: Being a podcast about disaster events, we will be covering topics like bushfires, storms, floods, COVID, climate change, grief and loss.
Liz: If the topics we discuss bring anything up for you, there are organisations you can turn to, and we will detail these at the end of the episode and in the show notes.
Alex: I’d just like to also let you know that today we'll be talking about someone's experience of loss after a recent fire event.
Alex: Hi, I am Alex Howard. I'm a clinical psychologist from Phoenix Australia and I use she her pronouns.
Sarah: Hi, my name's Sarah Herzina. I am a film television animation student at Deakin University and member of the Centre of Excellence for Young People and Disasters. My pronouns are also, she her.
Alex: Today we'll be speaking to Jay about the topic of hope and optimism.
Sarah: So, Alex, when we talk about hope after disaster, it's often framed as staying positive, but hope can often be more complex than that. Sometimes there's even too much pressure to stay hopeful. How would you define hope in the context of disaster recovery?
Alex: I think you're exactly right. We want hope to, uh, be realistic. Something that, uh, we can sustain in order to motivate ourselves to keep going with our recovery. Uh, but recovery does look very different for different people, and recovery also isn't about returning to how things were. So, I think it's really important.
Alex: We know that most people do recover with time and by drawing on their usual supports and using all
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the strategies and things that work for them day to day to manage stress, uh, but it is important also to have time to acknowledge the loss and the disruption that a disaster can bring as well. So, it's definitely about finding that balance, isn't it?
Sarah: Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Um, Alex, we know that Jay's lived experience is quite recent. Were you concerned going into the conversation with her about how to navigate that safely?
Alex: It, it's definitely something that we had to think really carefully about. Preparation's really important for something like this. So, we, um, spoke to, uh, people beforehand to understand what they wanted to share. Uh, help them figure out what their boundaries were and what they didn't want to share. Uh, obviously, um, given people opportunities throughout to change their mind at any point about being involved. We've also, um, made sure people have, um, the young people have access to, uh, psychology and other services if they wanted it.
Jay: My name is Jay and I'm 21. I grew up in Western Victoria in the Grampians area, so I love mountain biking and rock climbing, and that's kind of how I spend my day to day life here, even in the city, I try and find ways to go climbing and mountain biking. Apart from when I'm studying, I study at Melbourne Uni.
Alex: I guess today, as you know, we're here for this podcast. What is it that drew you to this project? What is it that made you kind of put your hand up to, to be involved?
Jay: I've always been very passionate about climate change and global warming, natural disasters. Um, and yeah, recently been affected by a natural disaster and I just wanted to help other people maybe if they're going through that, because I've had a transformative journey in regards to my resilience afterwards, staying optimistic and hopeful for the future, and I would like to help other people.
Jay: I actually brought in my diary entry that I wrote just after the fire occurred. Friday 9th of January, the day our home burned down in a bushfire. I can't believe it's all gone. Everything that was a part of my childhood is gone. This is the house that I always knew I could come back to one day, even with my kids. I would teach them to climb with my dad's climbing gear, take them out on the bikes and the trampoline and the swings.
Jay: I had a suitcase full of Sylvanian families and books that I was one day going to give my children and reminisce on how much those toys meant to me. I'm going to miss all our games and all of our books and dress ups even. It felt like we had just gotten to a stage where our house had all the nice things we wanted. We spent our lives collecting this stuff and we loved it all so much. It's all just things, but these things had so much meaning to me. I loved that house. It was such a beautiful old farmhouse with its tall, pressed tin ceilings and stained glass and fireplaces.
Jay: It was so quirky and held so many memories. I remember how excited we were
when we first moved in, running around the empty rooms, picturing the future. It became our home so quickly and was soon filled with love and things we loved. It's comforting to know that all of us are safe, but I wish our house was too.
Jay: Even if most things can be replaced, they won't feel the same. We can get a new house and fill it with new things, but it'll never have the history and meaning of our old home. We'll never be able to show people things that hold memories. All that we have left is photos and pictures in our minds. One day when I meet someone I love, I’ll wish I could show them the place I grew up and over time give the story of every little thing in that house.
Jay: I'm going to forget so many stories because the items the stories belong to will be gone. It feels surreal. I never thought global warming would affect me this severely, this early in my life. I'm so scared for the future and the lives of my children. Climate change is so real. The earth is getting so hot and angry. It's burning down homes and taking so much life. The consequences of our actions are here. They have been for a while.
Alex: Well, thank you so much for reading that part of your diary. I mean, there's so much in there. What does it feel like now to, to read that? Um, a few months on?
Jay: I think it reminds me of how I was feeling just as it happened and really shows me how far I've came because a lot of what I talked about in that diary was all of the things that I'd lost and losing the memories.
Jay: But something that I've really, that's really helped me now, like three months later, is remembering that all of those things are just, physical things, and I try and build my life on all the things you can't see, like love and friendships and family, and even just all my past experiences, all my memories, all my skills. Like all those things are things that can never be taken away from you.
Alex: Yeah. I mean, obviously after what you've experienced, it would be really okay not to be okay.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Um, but what is it that you have found helpful to kind of have that mindset or to kind of move from what you had in your diary to feeling more optimistic or hopeful for the future. What are some of the things that have helped you?
Jay: It was just nice to surround myself with love afterwards. Just be with my family. Be with my friends. And talk about it. Me and my family always talk about it, like the things that we lost, the things we miss, but it's always in a kind of optimistic and hopeful way, like being positive about the memories we have with those things that we lost, and positively thinking about the future and what's still to come.
Jay: Like it'll be really nice one day we can rebuild on the land out there and live again in that beautiful house, it won't be the same, but it'll be, it'll be different and it'll be new and it'll be exciting and we can, yeah, we always will have the same love that we can fill into a new home. It's really just been like reforming in my mind the thoughts of loss with thoughts of hope.
Jay: So when I think about the things I lost, like my snowboard and my mountain bike, and all my climbing gear, I just think in my head, the reason I like all those things is because of the skill and the experience that I have with those items. And I can, I still have all of that experience, all the skills, and I can still enjoy those sports that I love.
Alex: Yeah. Um, is there anything that you wish you'd known before the experience? Anything that you, yeah. Have learned since that would've been good to have a sense of beforehand.
Jay: I think just knowing that it will all be okay, even though something disastrous happens and immediately you feel so much grief and so much loss, eventually you'll, you'll be able to get through the other side and you'll have a transformative journey and maybe even become a better person.
Jay: Like I think I've kind of had a transformative journey. Maybe it's called like post-traumatic growth or something. Um, where I now see my life in all of the non-material things and I, I don't see the physical things in my life. I see a different layer. I see all the emotional aspects, all of the, all of the love in my friendships and my family, and all of the communication and the experiences and the memories we share together.
Alex: Yeah, and I, I like that you, you've obviously heard that term post-traumatic growth, which we know is something that people talk about when they experience yeah. Uh, kind of a new sense of meaning or a reminder of how important, as you say, those relationships and those. Uh, skills and memories are, um, as opposed to that, I, I imagine there have still been moments that have been really tough for you where maybe you haven't been able to remain optimistic.
Alex: Are there things that you were able to do then that kind of have helped you?
Jay: Yeah, in those moments, I just try and ground myself and remember that I can talk to anyone. I can talk to so many people in my life. I like to sit somewhere in nature. And be by myself and my thoughts, even with some music, sometimes maybe calling my family up to talk about it, um, talking to anyone about it.
Jay: But to ground myself, I really just sit somewhere in nature and like in silence and just let myself have those thoughts and, and then like what usually goes through my head to kind of bring myself through that is remembering that. I can't change what's happened, and so I just have to accept it as a turning point in my life and look for the good that will inevitably come from this change and stay optimistic for the future.
Jay: Or writing in my diary. I really enjoy writing down thoughts and keeping track of things and just letting it out.
Alex: Nice. Yeah. And you also mentioned that you, uh, do yoga or did yoga this morning at least.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Alex: Is yoga or other things like that something that you find helpful?
Jay: Yeah. Moving
my body, like stretching, exercising, going for a walk always helps release that negative energy for me.
Alex: Yeah, they're great ideas. Thank you. Thinking, uh, now there might be another high risk summer season come up with really hot weather and bushfire risk. Is there something that you've thought about that if you are faced with that threat again, that, um, you would do to help you prepare?
Jay: If there are any, any things that we need, like documents? Important documents and photo albums. Well, we don't have any anymore, but like the documents is a big thing. We like lost all of that, had to replace it and it, all of them and it was really difficult. So maybe just keeping them with us and leaving the home and hoping for the best. But it mental mentally, it's good to, I guess like if you are anticipating something, might, like a natural disaster might come along. It's good to just remember that all of the things that the natural disaster can take are just things. They're just physical items that aren't as important as everything else in your life. I think my perspective has changed a lot on life in general recently, where like physical things don't matter and so many emotional things that you can't see. Uh, there's so many layers that you can't see that is what makes up life and what makes up your own life.
Alex: Do you have any questions? For me, uh, I, as you know, I work, uh, in the area of disaster mental health, and I have, uh, worked with a lot of communities, um, including ones near yours we were talking about earlier, who've been impacted by disaster. Do you, yeah. Do you have any questions for me?
Jay: What advice do, would you give people on how to prepare for something like this?
Alex: I think feeling practically prepared I think is really important. Uh, and that can help us in our mind feel more prepared, you know, feeling a strong sense of connection with family community, and a lot of the things that you said around you obviously got a lot of, um, kind of joy and satisfaction from your hobbies and from spending time with your family.
Alex: So. You know, definitely, you know, paying attention to those outside of that disaster period I think are really good. You clearly, before the disaster, already, you know, had great relationships with your family, already had a really full life with lots of different interests. So I think those are the kinds of things that can help people if they are faced with a disaster, you know, those things that make life really meaningful.
Jay: Mm-hmm.
Alex: I think is really important.
Jay: I think it's really scary to think now that this could happen to, again, to even me and my family, but I also know that I'll be okay. And me and my family will be okay if it happens again because we know we got through it one time and we'll be even better prepared for the next time.
Alex: Yeah, and I also think though, even uh, kind of being okay still has moments of not being okay and I think that's
really fine as well. It sounds like, um, you've had moments kind of since the fires that probably you felt more okay than others and and that's really fine as well, isn't it? But yeah.
Jay: Yes.
Alex: It sounds like you're able to keep that, um, that end goal and that optimism for the future in mind.
Jay: Yeah. There are definitely still moments when I look back at old photos of the beautiful home and the view and like sunsets we spent eating dinner outside in that house. And it makes me sad to remember it, but I just sit in that sadness because it shows me how much that I love that place. It shows me how good my life was.
Alex: Yeah. I, I like how you've almost Yeah. To be sad about something means that that is something that was valuable to you that you've lost, doesn't it?
Jay: Mm.
Alex: It sounds like you've kind of been able to draw on strengths and supports that maybe you weren't fully aware that you had.
Jay: I think that I came to understand something really beautiful after the fire. I learned that most of what we have in life isn't physical. The things that make up most of our life, our experiences and memories and the love we share and our sense of self, these things can never be taken away from us. And this realization has made my appreciation for my mind and my heart grow.
Sarah: So Alex, Jay talked about rethinking what really matters in her life. Um, she talked about how love was really important for her, um, family, community. How can those moments lead to long-term changes in, in values or priorities?
Alex: It's not uncommon that for some people who experience a disaster, that it provides this real clarity about those things that are really important and about those things that are less important in their lives.
Alex: And that's clearly something that. Uh, Jay has thought a lot about, uh, since the disaster, and she even mentioned the term, uh, post-traumatic growth at one point, uh, in our conversation. And that's that idea that even if you might be struggling, uh, after a disaster, but at the same time there might be meaning that you've got from that disaster or it's changed your perspective on the world, or maybe it's changed your perspective on how strong and capable you are in terms of coping with it. So that is something that can happen alongside someone's recovery, that they have this shift in their mindset and they can focus a lot on what those things are that are really, really important to them.
Sarah: Yeah. Um, absolutely. Um, I also noted that Jay highlights both emotional and practical preparedness. How do practical steps, like having a plan say support emotional recovery as well?
Alex: Yeah, we're increasingly understanding how strongly linked, practical preparedness and emotional preparedness are. So I think, and this goes again to the idea of having, um, an active role in your preparedness and really understanding what the preparations are you've made as a family or you've made as an individual and that can help you, um, ready yourself emotionally for what to expect. Uh, you know, what's going to happen in what order as as much as possible. And all of those things can give you a, a way to help stay calm.
Alex: And it's even thinking in advance, well, what do I know about myself when I get stressed? Uh, how do I feel that in my body and my mind? What are the things that normally help me in those situations? And almost making that part of your preparation and planning as well. Not just the practical things.
Sarah: Yeah, they’re integral to creating a sense of security and, and safety. Um, Alex, what do you feel like are some of the key takeaways from your discussion with Jay today?
Alex: There are a few things that I thought Jay was really clear on in our conversation, and so one was that idea of she really did make space for those things that were truly important to her. So, she's really prioritised, uh, time with family, with friends, connecting with her home and the land that she loves so much, connecting with her hobbies.
Alex: So, I think, um, that idea of making space amongst all of the chaos and things that have to be done after a disaster for those things that are important is really good for our wellbeing. I also think she highlighted a few different strategies that she uses in those moments when she's feeling overwhelmed or low.
Alex: So, I always suggest think first: what has helped you in the past deal with this anxiety or worry or stress and try those first. But there are lots of things that people do. So, you know, from breathing, to going for a walk, to chatting with friends, uh, to distracting yourself with something fun or getting involved in hobbies, it's really important to have a range of different strategies so that if you can't do one of your usual coping strategies for some reason. You've got other options that you can draw upon to help you in that moment.
Alex: Grounding, um, is really anything. Well, I think of it as anything that involves your senses, reminds you of kind of where you are, the danger has passed, all of those kinds of things.
Alex: So, listening to music, uh, you know, um, being outside, you know, being in nature, all of those things. Jay also mentioned journaling, which is something other people find really useful as well. So yeah, just thinking about what are those things that I already kind of draw upon in times of stress and, and they're a really good place to start if you're ever faced with a disaster.
Sarah: Thank you so much for your time today, Alex. That was some really helpful and insightful advice that you provided today.
Liz: If anything we discussed in today’s episode raised issues for you, please reach out to someone you trust and seek support.
Liz: One resource we’re sharing in every episode is eHeadspace. This is a free, confidential service for young people across Australia, with support available online, by email or on the phone with a mental health clinician or peer worker. Go to headspace.org.au.
Liz: Another option is speaking with your GP — or an existing health professional you already trust. A GP can help with referrals to people like psychologists, social workers, or other supports, if that’s something you want to explore. You will find all the support resources available in the show notes.
Liz: The ‘Finding Steady Ground’ podcast was brought to you by the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters and Phoenix Australia. This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Wurundjeri and Boon Wurrung peoples of the Kulin Nation.
Liz: This episode was hosted by Alex Howard and Sarah Herzina. Pre-production and research was by Phoebe Michetti, Jessica Standish and Dr David Pedder. Editing and production were by Liz Keen from Headline Productions. Funding for the Centre of Excellence: Young People & Disasters was provided by the Australian Government.