In Conversation with Husam Zomlot and Humza Yousuf | Bradford Literature Festival 2026의 전체 녹취록

year, for making Bradford our home every year this time, for making us come and be among our family every year. 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:56.399 Thank you, Simon and the team, and of course, the one and only here today, Naz Shah, for always hosting us and making sure we meet all the members of the brilliant community here. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:58.000 It does feel like family. 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:05.360 And bet I bet you and I, next year, Hamza and I will come back to Bradford to the festival to meet all of you. 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:12.000 Um and answering your question, uh my friend, uh I grew up in the Shabura refugee camp. 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:13.839 That's a refugee camp in Rafah. 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:21.360 Um my family comes from a small, beautiful, very peaceful uh village by the name of Simsem. 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:26.800 Sim means sesame, but I come from a family that are primarily farmers. 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:32.399 So we my my parents, grandparents used to own land, farm their land. 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:34.720 So is the entire village. 00:06:34.959 --> 00:06:38.639 And the village next to us, which is your wife's village, Julis. 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.920 Uh, that was uh a farming uh area. 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:51.600 Um in 1948, my grandfather and father um uh uh were forced out of Simpson. 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:55.839 And by the way, my mother is also from the same original village. 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:10.319 Like Julis, Simpson was completely leveled, and in fact, they turned it into some sort of a forest, so they make sure that we will not be able to trace back where our homes are. 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:18.959 Anyway, as a result, I was born in a refugee camp in almost like a tent with some blue flags flying because of the UN. 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:24.399 So we were educated by Honorwa, provided healthcare by Honorwa, etc. 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:30.399 Um, my experience with the camp is as a child you don't know what's beyond the boundaries of the camp. 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:35.120 So the camp for me was the best life there is, and I was so spoiled. 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:47.759 Uh, we were provided with so much love because of the collective experience of being ethnically cleansed, because of a nation that has gone through such a trauma during the 1948 events. 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.439 I was the maybe the first or the second generation of the Nakba, the son of the Nakba. 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:58.399 They tried their best to compensate us by giving us so much love. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:06.319 I always say that one uh one mother is enough to be in control of her children, but in the camp, you almost have 20 mothers. 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:07.839 I literally have 20 mothers. 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:11.360 Everyone is your mother, and everyone is your uncle, and everyone is your brother. 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.839 It's the definition of communal life. 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:23.680 And they the community, that sense of community, do so much to give you protection, to give you love, to give you to invest in you. 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:28.560 So I tell you, if you ask me, would I want to be born anywhere else? 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:44.480 No, I want to be born again in that refugee camp because it brings you up as a human being, as a man that belongs to a great community, a great nation, and brings you up in such deep romance with your people, which is important. 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:45.679 That's fascinating. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.639 And your description of a son of the Nakbah. 00:08:48.879 --> 00:08:58.399 When does Hussam Zumlot really begin to understand what his parents and grandparents have gone through? 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.039 Interestingly, they didn't tell us much. 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:04.960 They brought their culture, their traditions, everything. 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:09.840 They called quarters of the camp according to the original village. 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:13.600 So next to us were Barca, there is Jules. 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:26.000 So all the people who came from the villages named their neighborhoods according to the original village to maintain, maintain the memory, the collective experience. 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:34.000 But they never really, when I when we were children growing up, they never offloaded on us what has happened to them. 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:41.120 In a way, I think they wanted to protect us, they wanted to avoid hatred or resentment. 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:57.039 But as you grow up, I remember I was maybe seven years old, six, seven years old when I first I was hit with the situation because my grandfather, with my father, uh uh uh in the refugee camps came and said, Hossam, come in the car. 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:00.240 They had a fiat car, light green. 00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.080 I don't know why they chose that color. 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:08.799 As a child, the most exciting thing at the time was to, you know, jump in a car. 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:09.679 So I did. 00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:14.159 And the journey took like 40 minutes, and I was wondering, where are we going? 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:18.080 Until we got to this empty land, lots of trees. 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:24.639 At the time it was just beginning, you know, it would they had just planted it a few years before. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.039 And then my grandfather started telling me and searching for his home. 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:35.759 And it was very difficult for him to find his home until he found a fig tree. 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:38.480 And he told me, I planted that tree. 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:45.600 This is my home, these are the stones of our home, this is where our entrance, that was the backyard and the terrace. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:50.879 And he could have painted for us as if as if he was looking at his home. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:11:00.639 He walked in with me when I was behind him, as I'm a

child, and he repeated that a couple of times later, as if mentally he was literally opening a door. 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:02.000 He would turn right. 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:03.120 There was nothing. 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.600 Unbelievable, his memory of his home that got destroyed. 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:14.000 So as you are brought up, you are shielded from the collective experience. 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:19.200 But down the line, they start bringing you up, giving it to you slowly, slowly. 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:24.720 And when I was there the first time, a child, and I was telling my grandfather, You have all this land? 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:26.159 He said, Yes. 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.080 I said, Your home was that big? 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:29.200 He said, Yes. 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.320 I said, Why the hell are we living in a refugee camp? 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:36.000 It took us, it took us 40 minutes to get to your home. 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:38.639 I don't want to go back to the refugee camp, I told him. 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:39.600 Let's stay here. 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.480 It's so beautiful. 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.039 And you know I can run the fields. 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:52.960 But then my grandfather, I remember him looking at me with that almost tearing eye, not able to tell me that we dare come back to our own home. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:55.840 Despite the fact how close it is. 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:02.799 But then at that point in my in my in my in my life, I began to ask serious questions. 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:03.440 Slowly. 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:04.240 Fascinating. 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:05.039 Fascinating. 00:12:05.679 --> 00:12:09.679 Um so then young Hussam grows up. 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:14.879 You're probably in your late teens, maybe even early 20s, first intifada that takes place. 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:15.519 Yes. 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:24.399 So I wonder if you tell me is is that the moment that young Hussam begins to get interested in politics? 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:27.919 Uh and who are your heroes growing up? 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:30.159 Yes, that was the point, exactly. 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.399 That was December 1987. 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:35.519 I must have been 12 or 13 years old then. 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:47.200 Um and I remember vividly, as if it is today, uh, the beginning of the First Antifada, because it started in Gaza, in Jabalia, to be very precise. 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:47.919 In the north. 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:52.639 Jabalia is again a big refugee camp in the north of Gaza. 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:57.519 Rafah is Shabura is a big refugee camp in the south of Gaza. 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:07.200 And because of it's a refugee camp, because it of the experience of the Nakba, usually struggle, nationalism, national movements begin in camps. 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:08.480 Remember Janine? 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:08.639 Yeah. 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:10.480 You know the Tulkarim camps. 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:14.559 So refugee camp, they bring the Palestinian identity to the fore. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:20.639 Um, but nonetheless, yes, I remember sitting in our classroom, again, an honorable school. 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:26.000 I must have been in, you know, uh what they what we call their second elementary, whatever it is. 00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:29.919 Year eight or something here or nine. 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:34.240 Uh and then all of a sudden, tear gas is in the school. 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:37.759 The the teachers are telling us, you have to leave, you have to leave. 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:39.759 Rubber bullets all over. 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:41.679 We were children, literally. 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:49.759 And um, you know, all the school went out, and I went with them, with my colleagues, uh, with my classmates. 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.919 There were hundreds of us. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:14:04.879 And then we all went towards a protest, and we joined naturally without even thinking or taking a decision, because we were part of that community. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:11.440 It's it was our elder brothers, it was our neighbors, it was our parents. 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:13.519 We took part in that. 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.960 I was one of the unlucky ones because of my height. 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:19.759 I was one of the tallest. 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:32.240 So I I demonstrated like everybody else, and the only weapon that was used during that time by the Palestinians is throwing a small little rock that will not really harm all these armored Israeli soldiers. 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:44.720 But I was unlucky because they chased me and chased me and chased me until I got back to my uh refugee camp and I thought, okay, this is my neighborhood, I know the streets, they will never catch me. 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:54.159 And you know, as a child, I was able to really evade and maneuver and all that, and I got into one of the homes next to us. 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.279 One of them was as tall as me, so they spotted me. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:07.120 A whole little fight happened between the entire camp, my mothers, the 20 mothers, and the soldiers who were besieging the house for two hours. 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.519 And then they got into the house, they arrested me, beating and all that. 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:17.919 But at that moment, I came to a close reality of the whole thing. 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:28.399 That there is ugly occupation, there is oppression, there is military uh uh presence that is not welcomed in our surroundings. 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:39.919 At that moment, the first antifada, it was the first day of the first antifada, actually, I came to realize that uh what would I want to be is part of my national movement. 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:40.720 Wonderful. 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.480 So you were a troublemaker from a young age, which is because we like troublemakers.

00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:45.840 No, I was unlucky and told. 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:47.840 Unlucky at the time. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:49.840 But they beat but they beat it the hell out of me then. 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:51.600 Because we are we are for the audience. 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:57.600 I want you to begin to think uh 15 minutes, so around quarter two, we're gonna come to you for for questions in the audience. 00:15:57.679 --> 00:15:59.039 So begin to ferment those. 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:04.879 But before we get there, I'm gonna keep going through um understanding uh some of the key pivotal moments. 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:06.399 So let's fast forward. 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:12.720 That's your political, that's the moment the penny drops, you begin to become politically interested. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:21.919 Um you join Fatah, uh well you uh uh you join Fatah before your academic journey or during your academic your time as a student at Bursai? 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.320 I was I joined Fatah practically at the age of 14. 00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:25.919 Oh, okay, well, incredible. 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:42.159 So you join Fatah, you get involved in your academic journey, you obviously excel, people see in the Palestinian uh the PLO, they see that you have extraordinary talent, many global postings, but let's fast forward, I think, given the time, to the United States. 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:47.759 So 2017, you get appointed as the Palestinian envoy to the United States. 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.159 You take over from mine, uh, Erikat. 00:16:51.279 --> 00:17:14.000 But not long after your posting, President Trump in his first term orders the closing of the Palestinian mission, and he cites lack of progress towards a peace deal, and I think simultaneously, also, of course, in a very provocative move, moves the US Embassy to Jerusalem, of course, which is occupied. 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.240 Um tell me what it was like living through that. 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.240 Was there a phone call? 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.480 Did you know President Trump was about to close the Palestinian mission? 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:26.880 Did you hear it and read it off the press? 00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.519 Did you have back channels to the Trump administration? 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:40.559 What was it like as the person who was living through the Trump first Trump presidency at the time that he closed down the Palestinian mission in the United States? 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:54.559 Well, first of all, I want to echo what you started by saying that uh my claim to fame up until recently was I was the first and the last ambassador to be kicked out by Trump. 00:17:54.720 --> 00:18:01.599 But then Ambassador Ibrahim Rasul really destroyed that claim to fame to me. 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:22.160 You know, but I must say on behalf of Ambassador Ibrahim Rasul and on behalf of the beloved country he represents, that is South Africa, that number one, I was kicked out of the US for representing my people and my country and my cause, and he was kicked out of the US for representing my people and my country and my country. 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:45.279 And I know you paid the price for standing tall for the Palestinian people, and you still do as South African, uh, my brother Ibrahim, uh, all the way to being firm uh with the International Court of Justice, taking Israel to court for the crime of genocide. 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.000 We know the pressure South Africa is under, but South Africa can never, never, ever give in, Habibis. 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.039 So thank you. 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:03.119 As for Trump, maybe uh Ambassador Rassour will tell you about it. 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:04.960 No, no, don't try to pass the question on. 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:07.440 What was it like living through the street? 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:12.160 It was extremely and utterly uh uh uh uh unexpected. 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:13.920 Uh how did you find out? 00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:25.920 A phone call came to me from the senior official of the State Department at the time, the head of the Middle East and North Africa uh department, they call it Near Easter. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:32.000 Um he called and he said, Are you alone? 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:33.119 I said, Yeah. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:35.359 He said, Are you standing? 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:37.680 I said, What where does this go? 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:39.119 I said, come on, man. 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.440 I come from a Shabura refugee camp. 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.279 I mean, what? 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:52.880 Don't tell me uh he said, Well, uh I just want to tell you the the mission, the Palestinian mission, is to be closed. 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.559 I thought he's talking about closing it for a national holiday or something. 00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:57.839 I said, when? 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.480 He said, no, no, no, it will be permanently closed. 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:10.960 Now, only a few days before that, we were busy arranging summits between our president and the US presidents. 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:23.200 I had arrived to Washington in March 2017, and by it was brutal, I had to arrange for a summit only a few weeks later between President Abbas and President Trump. 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:31.359 And in every meeting, the conversations, the dialogue, the chemistry was just going better and better and better. 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:51.440 And I cannot reveal much, you know, Ambassador Rasul and I know that we have limits of what we can reveal, but I can tell you President Trump was absolutely uh listening, giving us the impression that not only he's listening, but our side of the story made absolute sense to him. 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:57.920 He adopted most of it until we got that phone call. 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:06.720 So they are in the business of a U-turn, and the U-turn, in my opinion, comes from a source that you know

very well where. 00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.559 So um let's stop there. 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:15.039 I respect your ambassadorial protocols, diplomatic protocols. 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:19.200 Um, but let's um let's move forward because I mean you are very strong. 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:30.559 I just want to read a quote from you actually, um, because of course I said at the same time the United States very provocatively, as you'll remember, moved the uh uh uh embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:38.079 And in doing so, you then responded by saying you didn't take Jerusalem off the table, you took the table altogether. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:38.640 Yes. 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:44.640 No one, no Palestinian would ever be set be able to sit on that table, good luck. 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:45.839 And goodbye. 00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:46.799 And goodbye. 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:47.119 Yes. 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:48.000 And you were right. 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:48.720 Yes. 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:50.880 So far, that's proven to be true. 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.960 Let's fast forward because the mention. 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:55.440 I'm sorry, that contributed to the whole decision. 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.599 Because for them, dialogue and negotiations is diktat. 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.680 For us, it's not dictat. 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:03.279 You need to give and take. 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:04.160 So yes. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.920 Good luck and goodbye. 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:16.240 Do you see what do you see as the main fundamental difference bearing in mind everything that has happened post-October the seventh, but also pre-October the seventh? 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:23.680 What is the big difference between term one and term two in terms of President Trump and how he approaches the question of Palestine? 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:26.480 That isn't a difference. 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:46.000 Except in term two, he just completely and utterly starting with the point of not adopting the long-held US policy, which is a two-state solution, completely ditched it. 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:57.839 Term two, he went for full support of some of Israel's main sort of strategic instigated wars. 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:04.319 So in relative terms, second term might was not better than the first. 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.119 Okay, let's fast forward to the United Kingdom. 00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:09.359 So you mission is closed. 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:12.559 2018, Jeremy Corbyn's leader. 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:19.039 I'm gonna not because we shouldn't talk about it, people could ask in the audience, but I'm gonna skip past because I want to get to where we are currently. 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:20.799 I think Jeremy is very close to you. 00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.200 I think he attended your wedding as well, so you're very close. 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:30.079 So people can ask if they have any particular questions about Jeremy, who I think

is coming to BLF next week potentially, uh as well. 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.759 And I've shared a very happily shared a stage with them on the issue of Palestine. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.319 But let's get to where we are currently. 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:40.079 We have a Prime Minister and we have a Prime Minister in waiting. 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.359 I want to ask you about the current Prime Minister, who's only probably there for another week or two. 00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:53.279 Um, Keir Starmer famously said when he was leader of the opposition that Israel had the right to cut off water and power to Gaza. 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:59.680 Many people think that, and I believe that, to be confirmation of a war crime, complicity in a war crime. 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:07.440 He also refused Keir Starmer to call for a ceasefire while many, many months into a genocide. 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.960 And to this day, the UK government sells arms to Israel. 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:19.759 On the flip side, the UK has sanctioned some Israeli government ministers such as Ben Gavir and Samotrich. 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:27.519 And they have, for the first time, in my opinion, far too late, but recognized the state of Palestine. 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:35.680 In terms of Palestine, how does Ambassador Hussam Zumla sum up Keir Starmer's legacy? 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:37.279 Seriously? 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:42.160 And honestly, in the presence of Nasha. 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.680 I'm just curious. 00:24:52.160 --> 00:25:09.759 Well, without going into details, uh uh Sir Kristama will be remembered as far as Palestine is concerned, as the man uh during his leadership, the UK has recognized the state of Palestine. 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.839 And this is not a small measure. 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:18.559 We understand that it was the outcome of the British people, the public opinion. 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:24.079 We understand it was a matter for the Labour Party and the pressure from the Labour Party. 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.200 Um and we have one of the fighters and a few others of the Labour Party here for this issue. 00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:42.799 We also understand the UK Parliament was there was a motion and a petition signed by more than almost 300 MPs for him to recognize, mostly Labour, of course, so the majority of his MPs. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.680 So we understand that it's it's a bottom-up, but it was under his leadership. 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:52.480 I'll I'll I'll much was left to be desired. 00:25:52.720 --> 00:26:00.400 We in Arabic we have a saying, Babin Majjarim Khala, which means, let me translate it and it will make no sense to you in English. 00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.920 It means the carpenter's door is broken. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.440 Meaning, you know, the carpenter is the one who fixes doors. 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:14.960 So if your door is broken, then applying it on Kirstama, he's a human rights lawyer. 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.480 And his door was broken and he never fixed it. 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:25.279 Meaning that we were hoping that he would really stick to international law. 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:35.759 We were hoping that he would stick to his renowned career of being a lawyer all the way and a prosecutor in the International Court of Justice. 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:46.160 We were hoping that he would be the first to adopt fully the ICJ ruling in July 2024. 00:26:46.559 --> 00:27:29.200 We were hoping that the advisory opinion of the highest world court, which is the ICJ, would be immediately, not up for talks and negotiations, but for immediate implementation, particularly in the part of the responsibility of third parties, especially when it comes to arms embargo, full, not selective, arms embargo, sanctions not on two selected ministers, but on the entire government that is committing genocide, including, starting with Ben Yamin Netanyah, the law would have required a human rights law lawyer to make sure that it's not labeling of the settlement products. 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:36.880 These are illegal products being produced on stolen land by stolen resources. 00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:39.279 It should have been completely banned. 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:53.359 We were hoping that stolen properties, stolen properties from my land during his time would never ever be exhibited in the streets of London as happened two and or three weeks ago. 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:54.480 That was shameful. 00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:03.839 That was shameful to allow the sale of stolen properties on British soil. 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:26.400 So it's a mixed picture of a man who listened to his people and took the historic decision of recognition, but could not listen to his own background and profession to really stick to international legality in a way that reflects the UK's commitment, historic commitment to the international, to the rules-based international order. 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.319 And I think Nas would give me a pass for the answer. 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.559 Very well said, I'm I'm going to move to Gaza very shortly. 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.720 We both have family there. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.200 Your family and your wife's family, between them, have lost dozens of members of your family. 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:52.160 In fact, you lost a close family member just uh last week or in the last couple of weeks, and may God grant them the highest heavens and give you immense patience for such a difficult time. 00:28:52.480 --> 00:28:54.960 The issue of Gaza has fallen off the news agenda. 00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:01.680 The so-called ceasefire, which is not a ceasefire because over a thousand people have been killed and the destruction continues. 00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:07.519 Many people in this audience have been campaigning for almost three years relentlessly. 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:15.359 Some people have been campaigning for decades

against the injustice and historic injustice the Palestinian people have faced for that period. 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:22.000 In terms of speaking to this audience, um, what do people need to do? 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:35.519 As we are not far off three years from the genocide beginning, what do people in this audience need to do to ensure that the people of Gaza are not forgotten? 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:42.240 And I'm gonna just add another bit of that question and forgive me, which is what do you see? 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.119 Because it feels quite despairing at the moment. 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.200 What do you see and do you think is the most likely future for Gaza? 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.000 I want to just have a small little addition. 00:29:56.799 --> 00:30:01.039 The future I see is not for Gaza, the future I see is for Palestine. 00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:02.799 That includes Gaza. 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:08.480 Um Gaza is an inseparable beloved part of the state of Palestine. 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:19.519 Because there is a lot of focus, rightly so, there was a genocide on Gaza, but nothing gets me heated or angers me when I hear the term the Gazan people. 00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:21.279 There is no such a thing as Gazans. 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:23.119 I am from Gaza. 00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:26.319 There is only the Palestinian people in Gaza. 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:32.319 Remember, 80% of us in Gaza are not from Gaza, we are from the rest of Palestine. 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:38.240 Um, so answering the question, starting with Gaza, of course. 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:42.160 The reality is very difficult, Hamza. 00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:44.640 Uh the genocide has not ended. 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.079 It's all a shared. 00:30:46.799 --> 00:31:04.559 Since the announcement of the so-called ceasefire by President Trump, Israel has committed more than 2,400 airstrikes, killing more than a thousand, a thousand people, including my cousin last week. 00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:09.279 She was a mother, Tagrid, her name was Tagrid Zumblud. 00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:12.960 She was a mother of six, she's 51 years old. 00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:17.920 That tells you we were growing up together at the very same age, same time. 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:23.839 Um, and I was devastated to learn of her murder by an Israeli drone. 00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:34.079 They shot her in the back as she was hanging the clothes of her kids in the backyard of whatever left over her home. 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:37.599 Tagrid is among ten that were killed on that day. 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:40.319 So every day there are killings. 00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.240 The situation in Gaza is complete, complete destitute. 00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:50.160 Uh people, more than 1.5 million, live in uninhabitable places, as you know and following. 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.640 Diseases spreading, no health sector. 00:31:52.799 --> 00:32:06.960 So what Israel is doing in Gaza has been declared by the Israeli Prime Minister already and his defense, so-called defense or war minister, that you know we we support uh voluntary immigration. 00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:07.839 Did you hear that? 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.400 That was last time. 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:10.880 Voluntary migration. 00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:11.440 Okay. 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:17.839 And what they offer to our people in Gaza, here are the two choices they are offering. 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:22.079 Either you die or you leave. 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.839 And they took, they call that voluntary. 00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:28.319 These are the choices you have. 00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.759 So this is the situation in Gaza right now. 00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.839 The situation in the West Bank is not much better. 00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:39.599 I have just returned from the West Bank a couple of weeks ago. 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:45.519 And it's unbelievable, even for somebody like me who should be informed and prepared. 00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.720 I was not even prepared for what I saw in the West Bank. 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:55.759 The level of settler terrorism, and by the way, it's such a mistake to call it settler terrorism. 00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:09.839 I had struggled to use the word terrorism here in the UK until the Foreign Secretary of the UK, Vit Kuber, used the word, the T word terrorism, uh, next to settlers only a couple of days ago, good, a couple of weeks ago. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:10.559 Very good. 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:11.599 That's an achievement. 00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:15.039 But this is not, these are not just settlers, by the way. 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:22.960 Those militias that I have seen it with my own eyes in the West Bank, they are Israeli army reservists, reservoir, whatever you call it. 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:25.279 They just take off their uniforms. 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.519 Yeah, and then they go attack communities. 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.079 So this is a state-sponsored terrorism. 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.440 Paramilitary, almost a state-sponsored terrorism in the West Bank, all over the West Bank. 00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:40.640 I'm not gonna go into the level of settlement expansion, the roadblocks, the house demolitions. 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.759 You know the story? 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:50.559 The the collapsing of our health institutions in the West Bank, our education institutions, because of the withholding of our own money. 00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:55.200 So now they are literally collapsing out via uh via financial means. 00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.119 Now, this is the reality now. 00:33:57.200 --> 00:34:02.480 However, you know it's the saying we can see a light at the end of the tunnel. 00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:08.159 Well, let me tell you, we are certainly we don't see an end of the tunnel. 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:15.519 We are in the middle of the tunnel, but I see a light in the middle of the side of the of the tunnel.

00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.719 So let me, you and I today change that that saying, a light at the end of the tunnel. 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:26.000 You can actually sometimes see a light in the middle of the tunnel, and we see it. 00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:31.039 We see it because back to your earlier question, because you know what, Hamza? 00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:43.280 Because uh uh the globe has has has become Palestinized, and Palestine has become globalized. 00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:49.199 The globe has become Palestinized, and Palestine has become globalized. 00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:50.719 Let me explain. 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.360 Um Palestine, now we call it global Palestine. 00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:57.440 It has become global Palestine. 00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.119 This, the Kofiya, is becoming a global symbol. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:06.960 Not just cultural symbol, it's a it's a global political symbol of where you stand as a human being. 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:10.800 You stand with justice, you stand with people's rights. 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:14.639 It almost has become as a political manifesto. 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:22.639 And I we see the movement, we see the change, we see this not just in the UK, by the way, all over Europe, in the US. 00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:25.119 Are you following what is happening in the US? 00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:31.360 Many people thought that Mamdani was just a one-off phenomenon. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:37.360 Many people thought Mamdani was the cause of something. 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.360 No, he was the product of something. 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:44.719 He was the product of a people in New York, in the East Coast, all over the US. 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:49.039 And look at that movement, they are bringing many Mamdanis now. 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:50.800 Many Mamdanis. 00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.880 Things are changing everywhere. 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:54.639 And yes, I am hopeful. 00:35:54.960 --> 00:36:05.440 I am hopeful because look, okay, Israel has committed genocide, Israel has destroyed the vast of Gaza, my refugee camp is gone, the city I lived in, Rafah, is gone. 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.519 I dread the day, I go back to Rafah because I will have nothing to remember. 00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.440 I mean, my kindergarten, my schools, my streets are gone. 00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:19.679 The falafel shob, I hate them for the falafel shob because I used to love that falafel shop so much. 00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:21.360 Am I allowed to swear? 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.000 Of course. 00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:22.559 Okay. 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:24.960 Everything is gone. 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.519 So my father, his original village is gone. 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.400 I am my my my place of birth is gone. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:32.079 It's a recurrent thing. 00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:36.159 Yet, yet, the mask has slept, my friend. 00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:38.719 And the people of the world are awakened. 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:40.159 And this is very serious. 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:43.519 And if you look strategically, okay, Israel destroyed everything. 00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.199 They have the machines. 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:45.599 Yeah. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:46.400 Yes? 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.559 Destroyed everything. 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:52.559 But strategically speaking, what did Israel gain? 00:36:53.360 --> 00:37:04.800 Netanyahu has always propagated since he became a prime minister 25 years ago, one doctrine, one school of thought managing the conflict. 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.920 Not resolving it, managing the conflict. 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:17.840 But then what happened on the 7th of October and what followed was just a slab in his face that this conflict simply cannot be managed forever. 00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.440 You cannot divide the Palestinian and rule them and blockade them. 00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:34.320 You know Netanyahu used to actually allow and permit and push Israeli soldiers to carry bags of cash every single month. 00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:37.039 30 million dollars to go to what? 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:37.760 To who? 00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:38.719 To who? 00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:39.599 To Hamas. 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:54.159 Because he wanted to manage the division, manage the conflict because that will block any possibility of the unity of the Palestinian people, territory, and political system, and therefore block the emergence of a two-state solution. 00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:55.440 That doctrine is gone. 00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.599 Smotrich has a different doctrine. 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.480 We call it in Arabic and in Hebrew it's similar, Hasim. 00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:06.719 Hasmisrabah means they want to finish off, they want to have total victory, they want the entire Palestinian people out. 00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:08.400 That has also failed. 00:38:08.719 --> 00:38:11.599 Because you have deployed genocide. 00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:15.119 You have committed genocide, and still the Palestinian people are there. 00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:16.000 On their land. 00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:17.440 They are not leaving our homes. 00:38:17.599 --> 00:38:22.239 My cousin Tagreed died in half and in her half-destroyed home. 00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:33.519 She died standing, she destroyed her in her back, but she decided to stay in her home in the north of Gaza, defying the very idea of Hasmisra, of total victory. 00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:34.800 Our people remain. 00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:37.519 And they will remain in Gaza, they will remain in the West Bank. 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:44.559 Also, all of a sudden the cost of occupation is rising, the cost of illegality is rising, the cost of oppression is rising. 00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:50.800 Not just because of the change in the public opinion, but the legal, the legal side of the story and many other sides. 00:38:51.039 --> 00:38:54.159 So, yes, I see the light at the end of the

tunnel. 00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.760 Lastly, this is the global Palestine. 00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:10.880 But also on the other side, that the globe has been Palestinized because Israel is exporting all the terror methods and other governments are adopting the very same. 00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:18.320 You know, now we in Palestine have been just taken as testing grounds, as guinea pigs. 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:23.280 They are using all the murderous technology against children. 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:28.559 They are using AI and facial recognitions for mass murder. 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:33.039 So it is this moment for humanity. 00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.000 That's why our issue is no longer a political issue only. 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:43.280 This moment for the entire humanity is a moment when those who fight for Palestine are not just fighting for Palestinians. 00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:50.000 Everybody realizes we are fighting for our humanity, we are fighting for our lives, we are fighting for our children as well. 00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:50.800 Thank you. 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:51.760 Thank you, Sam. 00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:02.960 Let's get to the audience. 00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.400 We've got limited time. 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:05.360 Please put your hands up. 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.280 We're going to try to take a few questions at a time. 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:09.519 So we're going to take there's a roving mic going around. 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.320 Is it kind of a gentleman in the middle of the aisle here? 00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.840 And then there's somebody uh at the front as well with glasses. 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:18.400 But there's a gentleman, can you keep your hand up, gentlemen in the middle? 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:19.199 That's right. 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:21.599 Uh is there a microphone coming? 00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.519 And if you don't mind giving us your name, if you don't mind, it's up to you. 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:28.159 Uh, and then just ask your question. 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:33.519 Please keep it very tight, and then we're going to move to the person here at the front as well with the glasses. 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:35.440 Microphone is coming to you. 00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:38.400 And then there's one next to you. 00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.000 Thank you, and thank you both for um an incredible conversation. 00:40:42.159 --> 00:41:09.599 Uh, there seems to me to be a bit of a disconnect between this incredibly impressive man in front of me, Ambassador Dom Lot, and some of the things I've been told about the organization he belongs to, Fatah, because I have been told many times, including by Palestinian friends, that Fatah and the Palestinian Authority have all too often worked hand in glove with the Israeli occupation, policing Palestinians in the West Bank and so on. 00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:15.199 And that's another thing that partly explains the electoral gains that were made by Hamas. 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.079 Um I'm curious to know how you how you would respond to that. 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:21.280 Thank you. 00:41:21.440 --> 00:41:22.719 And there's a question here at the front. 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:24.159 We're going to take two at a time. 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:31.920 By the way, to add to that, I'm going to add a question in, uh, which is that, Husam, you recently went for the Central Committee of Fatah. 00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:37.599 Uh, everybody thought that you would be a fantastic addition to that central committee, which is a very powerful committee in Fatah. 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:39.519 You didn't make it on. 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:42.400 We want to know why not and what happened there in the inside story. 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:43.199 Please, sir. 00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:43.920 Uh thank you. 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.840 Um, Shuqran Hussam. 00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:55.039 Um, just a very quick preface: my grandfather spent the Second World War in Palestine and stayed and died, was killed in 1947 in Haifa. 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.000 And I'm very sorry of what's happened. 00:41:58.079 --> 00:41:59.840 It's horrendous everywhere. 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:04.880 But I it's meant that we've always known what's happened and been happening. 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:16.000 And uh one of my oldest friends in the region, Yusuf Habic, you know his sister Sandra, I think, in Batamhuri, um in Palestine, um, where I've been to see them. 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:18.960 I lived in Cairo and looking at the whole region. 00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:25.360 And my background is finance and investment banking, and I've given a talk at the Palestine Stock Exchange. 00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:27.599 We always look at risk. 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:30.880 And one of the things we see, we look at politics. 00:42:31.360 --> 00:42:33.920 I'm going to correct very quickly. 00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.760 We all know the horrors of 80 years and particularly three years. 00:42:38.639 --> 00:42:48.719 What is going to happen in probability terms to your wonderful people in the next few years, given all the elections in Israel, in the UK, in America? 00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.760 What you think will where will we be in three years? 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:54.880 And let's take one more. 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:57.840 I know I have to take two, but I think we've got one more here as well. 00:42:58.719 --> 00:42:58.880 Please. 00:42:59.119 --> 00:42:59.280 Thank you. 00:42:59.519 --> 00:43:04.000 Same alaikum rahmatullah, and thank you so much for the wonderful uh conversation. 00:43:04.159 --> 00:43:06.079 It's such an honor to be here, mashallah. 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:14.639 Um I'm a history teacher in a secondary school, um, and I've just come away from teaching um some pupils about uh St. 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:22.000 George because uh especially given that you're the ambassador to the United Kingdom, um, we've been teaching in schools that St. 00:43:22.079 -->

00:43:26.159 George, the patron state of this country, especially relevant at the moment because of the World Cup and the St. 00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:30.079 George's flag everywhere, that he was Palestinian or half-Palestinian. 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:36.559 And we went through the history with the pupils, the U8 students in in school, and uh that's about 12-year-olds, 13-year-old. 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:52.320 And uh we looked at how you know, born in 275 AD, the time of the Romans, um, they had the name, you know, Syria Palestina for the province, for the area, not called Israel at the time, called Syria Palestina province. 00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.280 And so definitely was a Palestinian, the patron state of this country. 00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:59.760 What can we do, inshallah, going forward in terms of more work in that area? 00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:05.920 Particularly with the marches and the political climate, and can we work potentially with yourself? 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:11.280 We're an independent school, so that means that we get the curriculum kind of control in our own hands. 00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:14.239 Is there any scope for working inshallah with you with yourself, inshallah? 00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:17.360 We'll go to Hassam and we're gonna try to keep the answers brief. 00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:23.039 And we've had three men, so I'm gonna come back and we're gonna try to get some women in the audience asking some questions and the last questions of the session. 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:24.960 Hussain, your answers first. 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:31.519 The issue of Fateh. 00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:34.320 Fateh is the national movement. 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:53.840 Let's separate between the Fateh as a national movement and the authority, the Palestinian Authority, which was formed to undertake some of the responsibility of the PLO under the Oslo Accords and the arena of health services, social services, security services, what have you. 00:44:54.320 --> 00:45:03.360 But Fateh, if you want to compare it in the presence of our brother Brahim Rasul here, Fateh is the ANC, not the state of South Africa. 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:11.599 And Fateh was founded by great leaders that believe that Palestine is a national issue. 00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:17.840 And it's up to the Palestinian people to take up the struggle and liberate our land. 00:45:18.239 --> 00:45:24.400 But it's also a global issue with the help of our friends worldwide. 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:30.480 That's why Yas Arafat was seen with Nelson Mandela more than any other leader. 00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:37.840 And that's why Nelson Mandela did say that the freedom of South Africa is incomplete without the freedom of Palestine. 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.960 So Fatah is a national liberation movement. 00:45:41.199 --> 00:45:49.199 Now the PA has its issues, and you know, and the issue, the main issue is that it was supposed to be created only for five years. 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:59.199 It's an interim arrangement that it will give way for, or it will be a transitional entity vehicle for it to become a sovereign independent state. 00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:07.840 We got stuck because Israel did not was not faithful to Oslo and was never faithful to any agreement we have ever signed. 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.880 And not just us. 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.639 Us, Jordan, Egypt, and what have you, Syria. 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:21.679 And therefore we got stuck in this limbo of an interim arrangement that was supposed to last for five years, but now it's lasting 25 years. 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:35.519 So I think there, with regards to the PA, especially after the recognition of several countries, now we have more than almost 160 countries recognizing the state of Palestine, of course, including the UK of late. 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:49.840 Now we need to consider directly and how do we actually move to the stage of a state rather than interim arrangements, and how can we redefine our relationship internally and regionally and globally in a way that increases uh leverage. 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.320 I'll tell you why I joined Fateh, my friend. 00:46:52.480 --> 00:47:03.920 I joined Fateh because I, you know, as a as a growing-up young man, I I literally fall in love with my people, and I saw myself purely as Palestinian. 00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:11.119 I am so proud to be Palestinian, and I needed a national movement to reflect that passion and that pride. 00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:21.199 With all love and respect to all other political movements in Palestine, some of them would import Soviet Union ideas, you know, and you know, communism. 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:31.519 Some of them will import, rightly so, that politics is seen from the prism of religion, whether either, and we have Muslims and we have Christians in Palestine. 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:32.159 I don't. 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:38.159 I see the Muslim as a Palestinian, I see the Christian as a Palestinian, I see St. 00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:58.880 George as Palestinian, I see Jesus as Palestinian, uh, and and we are all under that uh national umbrella, and that's why, because you know, I refuse to believe that our people and our nation uh uh uh uh lack uh uh people's hood and lack nationhood. 00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:07.599 We are a vivid, rooted nation, and there begins the liberation and and there and there uh begins the sense of togetherness. 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.239 Uh you reminded me about St. 00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:10.559 George. 00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:11.039 Yes, St. 00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:13.039 George is Palestinian, not half Palestinian. 00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.800 Khadr, his name is. 00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:26.880 You reminded me when I first arrived to the UK, and this is the first time I'm gonna say this story, and hopefully Saima will not pick it as a reel and run with it. 00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.360 And I arrived in December. 00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:35.679 I

was in the US, just kicked out of the US by Trump first. 00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:41.920 Oh, another difference between me and Ambassador Rasul, I was Trump kicked by Trump first, he was kicked by Trump second. 00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:59.840 Um I had just arrived in in December, and the first thing I got was an invitation by Her Majesty the Queen for the Christmas reception for ambassadors diplomats. 00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:11.280 And I go, and then the Foreign Office was very kind to arrange for me what they call private audience, so you have time alone with the Queen. 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.760 And then you know, I was waiting by a door, the door opens. 00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:20.719 My wife and I were standing there, then she comes, of course. 00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.960 By the way, what a lady, what a human being, what a what a woman. 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:29.039 Uh and you feel in her presence something very, very special, I have to say. 00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:31.599 May she rest in eternal peace. 00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:38.159 Uh so one of the protocol officers says, the ambassador from Palestine, and then she looks rather amused. 00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:43.360 Oh, by the way, the protocol were all over me before it, what to say and what not to say, and how to kneel and all that. 00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:44.960 They made my life so difficult. 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:46.239 I was panicking. 00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:48.559 I should not say your majesty twice. 00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:49.199 Did you know that? 00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:51.039 Yeah, your majesty, and then ma'am. 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:51.920 Then ma'am. 00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:56.719 Yeah, you are not supposed to talk or answer unless she asks. 00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:58.000 All that, anyway. 00:49:58.480 --> 00:50:03.840 So the man says, the ambassador from Palestine, the Queen looks at me and she said, Oh, Palestine. 00:50:03.920 --> 00:50:05.360 I said, Yes, Your Majesty. 00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:10.000 And I am so excited to have just arrived at Christmas. 00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:11.119 Christmas time. 00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:12.719 She was very amused. 00:50:12.800 --> 00:50:14.079 She said, Why is that? 00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:16.000 I said, Your Majesty, I made a mistake. 00:50:16.079 --> 00:50:17.679 You see, I did I did it twice already. 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:23.119 And the protocol man was panicking all over the place, almost fainting, like, oh my God. 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:28.400 Yeah, I said, She said, Why are you excited to have arrived at Christmas time? 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.760 I said, Your Majesty, because I come from Christmas land. 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.199 She said, What? 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:35.920 I said, I come from Christmas land. 00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:37.280 Remember Bethlehem? 00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:39.280 She said, Yes, oh yes. 00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:45.760 She said, I said, and also Jesus is our gift to you, Your Majesty, and to the rest of the world. 00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:47.840 And a whole lot of conversation began. 00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.840 We were supposed to stay a few minutes. 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.400 It went on and on and on, the conversation. 00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.360 But yes, our history has been stolen. 00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:57.280 We are the people of the book. 00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:01.360 Palestine is so sacred to Islam, Christianity, and Judaism. 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:02.559 And we are proud of that. 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:04.800 But all of them are Palestinians. 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:07.280 All of them are Palestinians. 00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:13.440 And we are so proud of that, of that uh preciousness of our history. 00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:18.800 The book, the Bible, is a Palestinian book, and it has been used against us. 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:23.119 It has been rewritten to be used against the people of the book. 00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:25.519 We are the original Christians. 00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:30.400 All the names that you see here, all the saints that you hear about came from my land. 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:31.920 And I'm so proud about that. 00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:35.280 Spreading Jesus' message worldwide. 00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:36.719 And not just uh St. 00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:38.559 George, by the way, for that matter. 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:39.440 But I'm glad St. 00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:43.599 George ended up there, the symbol of Britain and England. 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:50.239 And I can go on and on, but because you are a history teacher, we can have a chat afterwards. 00:51:50.480 --> 00:51:52.000 Because I am as fascinating. 00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:59.599 And by the way, if Hamza allows me, there is such a fight now with the British Museum that I have been involved in. 00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:04.639 And the British Museum is doing something that it should really reconsider. 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:11.679 Because the museums, particularly the British one, British Museum, given the history, must be guardians of history. 00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:16.000 Must be there to open spaces of learning, not be politicized. 00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:23.840 But with some campaign on them, they change the designation of Palestine, ancient Palestine, and contemporary Palestine. 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:27.840 And that tells you, our teacher of history, how important history is. 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:28.800 You know why? 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:34.639 Because they cannot erase a nation in its present unless they erase them in it in their what? 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:35.760 In their past. 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:38.639 They need to erase our past, our history. 00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:46.239 Last sentence, we will not allow them to erase our history. 00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.559 We will not allow them to erase our present. 00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:55.920 And we assure you, we will build a future that you and your pupils here, the British kids, will be proud of. 00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.159 Okay. 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:06.559 I'm afraid, like all good politicians, I'm going to renege my promise of going back to the audience. 00:53:06.639 --> 00:53:15.280 Um because uh forgive me, I know the organizers only have 15 minutes to turn this room round, so they only have now 10 minutes to turn this room round for the next event. 00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:24.400 So, ladies and gentlemen, um, and I am chatting another uh event uh tomorrow, so I promise that um I'll take female question audience members first uh for those questions. 00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:29.840 Ladies and gentlemen, uh I think you'll agree with me, it's been a fascinating insight from Ambassador Hussam Zumlat. 00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:43.679 I think many in the crowd will also agree with me, and he can't say anything, and neither he should, that one day we hope to see Ambassador Hussam Zumlot as President Hussam Zumlot of the Palestinian people and of Palestine and the state of Palestine. 00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:53.199 So I look forward to that day, and perhaps I'll get an invitation from Allah Hussam Zumlot Ambassador Hussein.