Why Traditional Addiction Treatment Fails 95% of People (And What Actually Works) | Hamilton Baden의 전체 녹취록

a phone call. 68 00:03:55.298 --> 00:03:56.839 And I said, I got to figure this out. 69 00:03:57.279 --> 00:03:59.019 And we can get into the details. 70 00:03:59.059 --> 00:04:02.540 But I got on a plane the next night and I flew to North Carolina and went to treatment. 71 00:04:03.401 --> 00:04:04.642 I walked into treatment. 72 00:04:04.682 --> 00:04:11.630 I had one last conversation with my wife before I walked in, and I did not know if this would save my marriage or not, but I went anywhere. 73 00:04:12.371 --> 00:04:16.056 And so from that perspective, it was the worst fucking day of my life. 74 00:04:16.116 --> 00:04:17.537 It was the hardest day of my life. 75 00:04:18.138 --> 00:04:20.000 It was the most terrifying day of my life. 76 00:04:20.941 --> 00:04:24.683 Um, so I, my last drink was on a Sunday. 77 00:04:25.503 --> 00:04:29.365 This was now, so Monday I dealt with everything. 78 00:04:29.605 --> 00:04:30.946 Tuesday I got on a red eye. 79 00:04:30.966 --> 00:04:32.146 So it was Wednesday morning. 80 00:04:32.186 --> 00:04:40.970 So I had started to sober up and I walked in and sat in the admissions chair and was like, oh my God, what the fuck did I just do? 81 00:04:41.310 --> 00:04:44.011 So from that perspective, it was the hardest thing I've ever dealt with. 82 00:04:44.131 --> 00:04:45.312 It was the worst day of my life. 83 00:04:46.032 --> 00:04:47.293 You talked to me about that. 84 00:04:47.853 --> 00:04:49.374 Talk to me about you, you. 85 00:04:51.143 --> 00:04:54.828 asked yourself, what the fuck did I just do? 86 00:04:55.169 --> 00:04:56.371 How did you reconcile that? 87 00:04:56.471 --> 00:04:57.653 How did you answer yourself? 88 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.602 Well, I had gotten so many people involved now. 89 00:05:00.762 --> 00:05:08.066 I called my job and I was the chief growth officer of a company based here in Arizona that was a national specialty pharmacy. 90 00:05:09.047 --> 00:05:09.967 So I told them. 91 00:05:10.428 --> 00:05:12.469 So now the cat's out of the bag. 92 00:05:12.509 --> 00:05:13.550 I can't go back on that. 93 00:05:14.050 --> 00:05:15.110 I told my parents. 94 00:05:15.191 --> 00:05:17.232 My parents actually met me at the airport. 95 00:05:17.252 --> 00:05:18.493 I'm from Greenville, South Carolina. 96 00:05:18.513 --> 00:05:19.973 So they met me at the airport. 97 00:05:20.033 --> 00:05:21.695 My sister drove me to treatment. 98 00:05:22.655 --> 00:05:25.197 So there was kind of no getting out of it at that point. 99 00:05:25.357 --> 00:05:26.818 I had the cats out of the bag. 100 00:05:26.898 --> 00:05:28.179 I've admitted I have a problem. 101 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:28.879 I'm there. 102 00:05:29.479 --> 00:05:30.520 And I'm one of those guys. 103 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:32.481 Once I make a commitment, I'm going to fucking do it. 104 00:05:32.541 --> 00:05:35.823 I went to the Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina, which is a military school. 105 00:05:36.204 --> 00:05:39.706 And there was no I mean, a lot of people leave the Citadel. 106 00:05:39.826 --> 00:05:41.747 There was no fucking way I was leaving that school. 107 00:05:41.827 --> 00:05:42.748 So I made it through. 108 00:05:43.388 --> 00:05:44.309 And it was the same thing. 109 00:05:44.349 --> 00:05:44.949 So I'm there. 110 00:05:45.189 --> 00:05:46.070 I knew I was there. 111 00:05:46.250 --> 00:05:47.711 I knew there was no getting out of it. 112 00:05:47.831 --> 00:05:48.832 So I just went with it. 113 00:05:49.755 --> 00:05:51.076 But it was bad, dude. 114 00:05:51.116 --> 00:05:53.097 It was extremely stressful. 115 00:05:54.658 --> 00:06:01.522 Talk to me a little bit about that mindset that, what is it, a will to win, a resilience? 116 00:06:01.722 --> 00:06:05.344 What is that mindset of refusing to quit and where does that come from? 117 00:06:05.364 --> 00:06:09.487 Because I think, if I'm not mistaken, a lot of my listeners probably have the same one. 118 00:06:09.527 --> 00:06:09.627 Yeah. 119 00:06:09.627 --> 00:06:11.648 Yeah, you know, that's a great question. 120 00:06:11.688 --> 00:06:12.869 And I don't really know. 121 00:06:12.889 --> 00:06:14.710 I mean, maybe it was genetic. 122 00:06:15.451 --> 00:06:18.172 Having a two-star general for a dad probably doesn't hurt. 123 00:06:19.253 --> 00:06:21.534 But I just had this competitive drive. 124 00:06:21.774 --> 00:06:24.136 I mean, when I came out, this is a funny story. 125 00:06:24.156 --> 00:06:30.380 When I came out a week later, my mom took me back to the pediatrician and said, something is wrong with my kid. 126 00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:32.781 Like the normal feedings aren't working. 127 00:06:32.861 --> 00:06:35.243 He's all over, like something's going on. 128 00:06:36.263 --> 00:06:38.425 Do you know what kinesiology is? 129 00:06:38.465 --> 00:06:40.206 The study of body movement or something? 130 00:06:40.286 --> 00:06:46.070 They did some stupid kinesiology test on me, and they looked at my mom and said, you're going to have a very aggressive son. 131 00:06:46.510 --> 00:06:49.732 So I just had this burst of energy that I didn't know what to do with. 132 00:06:50.073 --> 00:06:55.076 And that's why I was diagnosed with ADD when I was in fourth grade. 133 00:06:55.536 --> 00:06:56.837 By the way, I didn't have ADD. 134 00:06:57.117 --> 00:06:57.378 No. 135 00:06:57.698 --> 00:06:57.838 No. 136 00:06:57.998 --> 00:07:01.640 Do you think this had any contributed at all to... 137 00:07:04.402 --> 00:07:05.763 your substance abuse, the alcohol abuse? 138 00:07:05.783 --> 00:07:06.664 A million percent. 139 00:07:06.724 --> 00:07:06.984 Yeah. 140 00:07:07.145 --> 00:07:07.845 Without question. 141 00:07:07.865 --> 00:07:08.846 Help me understand that. 142 00:07:08.886 --> 00:07:09.807 Was it a subdue? 143 00:07:09.867 --> 00:07:10.928 Was it like an unwind? 144 00:07:10.968 --> 00:07:12.088 Was it an escape? 145 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:13.690 Here's the best way I can explain it to you. 146

00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:18.153 When I have a drink, the best way I can explain it, we can get into this. 147 00:07:18.193 --> 00:07:20.075 I can explain to you the neurobiology of addiction. 148 00:07:20.115 --> 00:07:20.835 It's fascinating. 149 00:07:20.996 --> 00:07:21.876 I was born an addict. 150 00:07:21.896 --> 00:07:22.797 I was born an addict. 151 00:07:23.043 --> 00:07:28.267 Plain and simple, meaning, and if you understand the neurobiology of addiction, you understand what I say. 152 00:07:29.107 --> 00:07:30.208 I was born an addict. 153 00:07:30.388 --> 00:07:37.673 And what that means is, is that my nervous system was designed or came out in such a way that it was always firing. 154 00:07:38.293 --> 00:07:42.136 And what alcohol would do to me was a collective sigh of relief. 155 00:07:42.456 --> 00:07:44.618 So my brain is always going constantly. 156 00:07:45.258 --> 00:07:47.599 alcohol would pause that and let me breathe. 157 00:07:47.859 --> 00:07:51.020 It was the greatest drug I've ever, like I've taken a lot of drugs. 158 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:53.040 It was the greatest drug I've ever taken in my life. 159 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:59.542 And if I could have drank like a normal person, I think it would be the most phenomenal drug in the world. 160 00:07:59.582 --> 00:08:04.163 The problem is, is because it affected me so much, you can't drink like a normal person. 161 00:08:04.203 --> 00:08:07.264 And when we talk about the neurobiology of addiction, that'll make sense. 162 00:08:08.544 --> 00:08:09.265 You see what I'm saying? 163 00:08:09.345 --> 00:08:13.846 But yes, the drugs and the alcohol absolutely made me feel... 164 00:08:15.013 --> 00:08:16.814 Normal, for lack of a better word. 165 00:08:17.375 --> 00:08:17.655 Okay. 166 00:08:17.695 --> 00:08:18.335 What other drugs? 167 00:08:19.436 --> 00:08:21.857 I mean, dude, I've done everything, but alcohol was my thing. 168 00:08:22.117 --> 00:08:24.719 I did a lot of ecstasy when I lived in Philadelphia. 169 00:08:24.799 --> 00:08:27.461 We would always say, we're not going to do it this weekend, and we would do it. 170 00:08:27.841 --> 00:08:32.264 I didn't do a lot of coke because—well, you're probably younger than me. 171 00:08:32.304 --> 00:08:35.105 Len Bias was a famous basketball player, played for Maryland. 172 00:08:35.145 --> 00:08:35.986 He was a stud. 173 00:08:36.046 --> 00:08:38.708 He dropped dead the first time he ever did coke, supposedly. 174 00:08:38.728 --> 00:08:39.288 Mm-hmm. 175 00:08:39.428 --> 00:08:45.074 And so with my energy, I thought that if I did coke, I did it a couple of times, nothing big. 176 00:08:45.274 --> 00:08:48.777 I smoked weed, but alcohol was 100 percent. 177 00:08:48.857 --> 00:08:51.400 Nothing ever stuck for me other than alcohol. 178 00:08:51.420 --> 00:08:52.101 That was the thing. 179 00:08:52.601 --> 00:08:52.821 Yeah. 180 00:08:52.941 --> 00:08:54.343 And there were opioids as well. 181 00:08:54.383 --> 00:08:56.225 And

I'll get to that later in my story. 182 00:08:56.265 --> 00:08:58.947 But opioids became a big part of my life for a period of time. 183 00:08:59.368 --> 00:09:02.591 But alcohol, if you had to label it, I was an alcoholic. 184 00:09:03.252 --> 00:09:03.532 Got it. 185 00:09:05.990 --> 00:09:14.018 Okay, so one more thing about the day that you—no, not the day that you went in, the decision to go in. 186 00:09:17.140 --> 00:09:22.065 Obviously, you had said that it was because of your wife, right, and your marriage. 187 00:09:22.345 --> 00:09:23.907 You wanted your marriage to succeed. 188 00:09:23.927 --> 00:09:24.107 Right. 189 00:09:25.423 --> 00:09:33.987 I imagine there's an ebb and a flow through this, just like that conversation you had with yourself when you were sitting in admissions throughout the whole process. 190 00:09:34.227 --> 00:09:34.607 You should. 191 00:09:34.627 --> 00:09:35.067 You shouldn't. 192 00:09:35.648 --> 00:09:36.248 Yes, do it. 193 00:09:36.328 --> 00:09:36.868 No, don't. 194 00:09:39.489 --> 00:09:40.230 When did that stop? 195 00:09:40.850 --> 00:09:43.071 When did the ebb and flow about should I go or not go? 196 00:09:43.091 --> 00:09:48.733 When did the internal dialogue, that monologue in your head, when did that stop and when did you – 197 00:09:51.569 --> 00:09:55.832 surrender to the voice that said, this is a good thing? 198 00:09:56.973 --> 00:09:58.334 Yeah, that's a great question. 199 00:09:58.434 --> 00:10:04.019 So the voice in my head that contemplated this, I think we have to go back. 200 00:10:04.499 --> 00:10:07.902 That probably started when I was 20 years of age. 201 00:10:08.222 --> 00:10:09.723 Like I knew I had a problem. 202 00:10:10.363 --> 00:10:10.624 Oh, wow. 203 00:10:10.704 --> 00:10:11.284 How old were you? 204 00:10:11.304 --> 00:10:11.364 42. 205 00:10:11.444 --> 00:10:11.925 Okay. 206 00:10:12.065 --> 00:10:12.365 Okay. 207 00:10:12.585 --> 00:10:13.865 Oh, 22 years. 208 00:10:13.985 --> 00:10:14.265 I knew. 209 00:10:14.385 --> 00:10:16.026 So I didn't drink much in high school at all. 210 00:10:16.046 --> 00:10:17.246 I was kind of a goody two shoes. 211 00:10:17.286 --> 00:10:21.247 I was a really smart kid, had a full academic scholarship to the Citadel. 212 00:10:22.347 --> 00:10:27.028 But then when I got to the Citadel and I don't know how much you know about the Citadel's military school. 213 00:10:27.449 --> 00:10:31.409 So you're there, you're locked up, no alcohol, no nothing, no women. 214 00:10:31.630 --> 00:10:34.010 And then they let you out on Friday night for five hours. 215 00:10:34.050 --> 00:10:35.130 I mean, what do you think you do? 216 00:10:35.190 --> 00:10:37.511 You hump the wall and you drink as much as you can. 217 00:10:37.991 --> 00:10:40.292 That's where alcohol became a big part of my life. 218 00:10:40.512 --> 00:10:44.835 And so I knew I had a problem without question. 219 00:10:44.975 --> 00:10:46.075 And I contemplated. 220 00:10:46.235 --> 00:10:49.117 I went to a meeting sometimes and I'm like, these people are idiots. 221 00:10:49.157 --> 00:10:50.077 I don't belong here. 222 00:10:50.277 --> 00:10:52.438 I could never identify as an alcoholic. 223 00:10:53.379 --> 00:10:56.781 It was that moment that made me say. 224 00:10:58.135 --> 00:10:59.556 I don't have any other option now. 225 00:11:00.796 --> 00:11:03.677 If I want to save my marriage, this is a requirement. 226 00:11:03.797 --> 00:11:04.517 I have to do this. 227 00:11:04.577 --> 00:11:09.459 Now, the interesting thing is, I didn't know when I actually went in if I would save my marriage. 228 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:10.940 My wife was really done. 229 00:11:11.020 --> 00:11:13.200 Now, my wife and I made it, and it's a long story. 230 00:11:13.881 --> 00:11:20.463 But the day that I went to treatment, she was not committing to me that I will be there when you get back and we will be married. 231 00:11:20.663 --> 00:11:22.424 Which made it a million times harder. 232 00:11:22.444 --> 00:11:34.867 I was going to say, because now you're now you're you're going through this process of sobering and you're wrestling with the unknown of whether or not your wife's going to be waiting for you when you're done. 233 00:11:34.907 --> 00:11:35.788 And then it gets worse. 234 00:11:36.168 --> 00:11:38.348 So you have a blackout period when you go to treatment. 235 00:11:38.368 --> 00:11:41.009 So when you go to treatment, they take out everything away from you. 236 00:11:41.129 --> 00:11:42.810 Your perfume, your cologne. 237 00:11:42.910 --> 00:11:44.210 They take it because you'll drink it. 238 00:11:44.530 --> 00:11:45.430 Some people will drink it. 239 00:11:45.851 --> 00:11:48.431 Hand sanitizer, everything. 240 00:11:48.571 --> 00:11:49.192 Your phone. 241 00:11:49.292 --> 00:11:49.872 You have nothing. 242 00:11:50.552 --> 00:11:54.256 And you can't talk to any family member for two weeks. 243 00:11:54.296 --> 00:11:55.598 I think it's two weeks or 10 days. 244 00:11:56.339 --> 00:11:57.560 So I go through that. 245 00:11:57.720 --> 00:11:58.781 I start to sober up. 246 00:11:58.861 --> 00:11:59.863 I start learning. 247 00:12:00.023 --> 00:12:03.727 And then I have my first call with my wife, and it did not go well. 248 00:12:04.047 --> 00:12:05.329 I didn't get what I wanted. 249 00:12:06.170 --> 00:12:08.092 And now I'm like, oh, fuck. 250 00:12:08.252 --> 00:12:08.913 What did you get? 251 00:12:10.314 --> 00:12:10.775 I got... 252 00:12:12.287 --> 00:12:18.549 Basically, I'm happy without you here, and I'm going to do things that are important to me. 253 00:12:19.209 --> 00:12:24.311 And basically, I'm probably not going to be a part of this going forward. 254 00:12:24.811 --> 00:12:29.873 So the interesting thing is I got through that that night when you're all by yourself in your room. 255 00:12:29.913 --> 00:12:30.653 You have a roommate. 256 00:12:30.733 --> 00:12:35.615 I had a roommate, but obviously he was in the

other bed, and I'm sitting there, and I'm all alone in my thoughts. 257 00:12:35.775 --> 00:12:39.276 And I got up and walked up to the nurse's station, and I said, I can't do this. 258 00:12:39.376 --> 00:12:40.436 I got to get the fuck out of here. 259 00:12:40.496 --> 00:12:41.297 And it's voluntary. 260 00:12:41.317 --> 00:12:41.877 You can leave. 261 00:12:41.897 --> 00:12:42.157 Mm-hmm. 262 00:12:43.457 --> 00:12:45.038 And this lady must have been an angel. 263 00:12:45.098 --> 00:12:46.518 So she talked me out of it. 264 00:12:46.578 --> 00:12:51.860 But this is, and we're gonna get to this, I'm sure, this is where it's really fascinating. 265 00:12:51.900 --> 00:12:53.600 And I shit you not this happened. 266 00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:57.521 The next day, my counselor, his name was Sam, and he was this gruff Harley rider. 267 00:12:57.561 --> 00:13:01.662 And he'd get over the loudspeaker and he'd be like, Hamilton, see Sam. 268 00:13:01.922 --> 00:13:02.842 And I'd go to see him. 269 00:13:03.423 --> 00:13:04.603 And he looked at me in the eyes. 270 00:13:05.143 --> 00:13:06.264 And I told him what happened. 271 00:13:06.444 --> 00:13:10.186 And he goes, if you don't think you're an alcoholic, he goes, you're a fucking pussy. 272 00:13:10.326 --> 00:13:13.308 He goes, get the fuck up and walk out of here and go save your marriage. 273 00:13:13.368 --> 00:13:14.709 And he goes, you'll be back in a year. 274 00:13:15.369 --> 00:13:16.490 That was his message to me. 275 00:13:17.230 --> 00:13:20.493 Now, for most people, they would have probably gotten up and walked out. 276 00:13:20.553 --> 00:13:22.154 For me, that flipped a switch. 277 00:13:22.194 --> 00:13:23.174 And I was like, fuck you. 278 00:13:23.214 --> 00:13:24.215 Watch this, asshole. 279 00:13:24.475 --> 00:13:26.076 Because if you're it pissed me off. 280 00:13:26.196 --> 00:13:26.436 Yeah. 281 00:13:26.516 --> 00:13:28.657 And that's part of your, your wiring. 282 00:13:28.717 --> 00:13:37.382 And maybe he was a genius for saying that maybe he doesn't say that to other people, but it forced me to actually suck it up and say, all right, dude, watch this. 283 00:13:37.582 --> 00:13:38.282 And I stayed. 284 00:13:38.482 --> 00:13:39.883 And then that's where the magic happened. 285 00:13:40.863 --> 00:13:43.565 Talk to the audience now for, for a second. 286 00:13:43.625 --> 00:13:46.566 I'm curious, most curious about this. 287 00:13:48.067 --> 00:13:54.290 What does it look like just before you would consider it a problem? 288 00:13:56.396 --> 00:14:05.525 Because I imagine as you approach the line, here's the line that you consider it a problem. 289 00:14:06.086 --> 00:14:10.791 As you approach that line, that line probably moves a little bit with that approach. 290 00:14:12.444 --> 00:14:17.146 Yeah, that's a really—dude, you asked really fucking good questions. 291 00:14:17.266 --> 00:14:20.747 It's a hard question, too, because the line always moves. 292 00:14:20.847 --> 00:14:22.027 Yeah. 293 00:14:22.288 --> 00:14:24.948 And I don't—you know, I joke about this a lot. 294 00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:27.349 What is an alcoholic, okay? 295 00:14:27.749 --> 00:14:28.850 Or what is an addict? 296 00:14:29.525 --> 00:14:32.607 Well, you know, I'm sure there's clinical definitions. 297 00:14:32.667 --> 00:14:35.428 If you drink this many drinks a night or if you do this or that. 298 00:14:35.468 --> 00:14:38.830 But this is where this is where it's pretty easy for me. 299 00:14:39.491 --> 00:14:49.717 When your life becomes unmanageable or is controlled by that addiction, that's where the line is drawn. 300 00:14:50.197 --> 00:14:52.059 controlled by that addiction. 301 00:14:52.079 --> 00:14:53.080 So let me give you an example. 302 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:55.742 Everything in my life revolved around alcohol. 303 00:14:55.822 --> 00:14:58.264 I went to work every single day like a normal person. 304 00:14:58.405 --> 00:15:02.849 I grew a company from $25 million to $1.65 billion. 305 00:15:02.969 --> 00:15:04.030 I was a great employee. 306 00:15:04.090 --> 00:15:05.071 I was the life of the party. 307 00:15:05.191 --> 00:15:06.272 I wasn't a mean drunk. 308 00:15:06.632 --> 00:15:08.354 When I came home, I started drinking. 309 00:15:08.494 --> 00:15:10.355 But everything revolved around that. 310 00:15:10.496 --> 00:15:13.118 If we went to a sporting event, well, dude, you have to drink. 311 00:15:13.418 --> 00:15:14.019 I couldn't imagine. 312 00:15:14.079 --> 00:15:14.740 Like, you drink. 313 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:15.180 Yeah. 314 00:15:15.300 --> 00:15:18.564 When you play golf, I never played golf without drinking, ever. 315 00:15:18.944 --> 00:15:20.346 And I played golf three times a week. 316 00:15:20.906 --> 00:15:23.589 If you're pissed off, you got to have a drink because you're pissed off. 317 00:15:23.629 --> 00:15:24.851 If you're happy, you got to celebrate. 318 00:15:24.871 --> 00:15:25.612 You got to have a drink. 319 00:15:26.032 --> 00:15:29.356 The restaurants I went to were determined by what kind of alcohol. 320 00:15:29.376 --> 00:15:30.477 I used to love Fleming's. 321 00:15:31.398 --> 00:15:35.722 I actually don't think Fleming's is that good of a restaurant, but they had phenomenal fucking dirty martinis. 322 00:15:35.862 --> 00:15:39.286 I had a sushi bar that we went to since I've been sober. 323 00:15:39.326 --> 00:15:41.368 I think I've been there twice in 14 years. 324 00:15:41.548 --> 00:15:46.893 I went there once a week because when I walked in, they put down my drink and they put down a glass of wine for my wife. 325 00:15:46.953 --> 00:15:47.634 So everything. 326 00:15:47.934 --> 00:15:51.858 I went to a carnival for my kids and put wine in sippy cups. 327 00:15:52.955 --> 00:15:55.375 so that no one would know, but I would have the wine there. 328 00:15:55.415 --> 00:16:01.557 If I went to your house for a party and I looked around and there wasn't enough alcohol, I'd leave and go

get more and bring it back. 329 00:16:02.117 --> 00:16:06.878 So everything revolved around that, and that's where it becomes unmanageable. 330 00:16:07.318 --> 00:16:07.838 I see. 331 00:16:08.038 --> 00:16:14.899 If I took something away from you and it stressed you out to the point of really bad distress, that's where it becomes a problem. 332 00:16:15.199 --> 00:16:15.519 Okay. 333 00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:16.959 In my opinion. 334 00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:19.720 That brings up a point that... 335 00:16:20.683 --> 00:16:25.766 I don't know if I'm right, but I want to, I want to present it to you and see what you think. 336 00:16:28.047 --> 00:16:36.591 I would imagine that the most dangerous place that an addict can be is successful. 337 00:16:39.052 --> 00:16:43.775 Because when you're successful, everybody thinks you're fine. 338 00:16:45.936 --> 00:16:47.077 What am I getting wrong about that? 339 00:16:47.737 --> 00:16:49.379 I don't think you're getting anything wrong about it. 340 00:16:49.399 --> 00:16:59.106 I mean, people would argue with you and say, well, if I'm homeless on the streets of San Francisco and the Tenderloin District and there's heroin everywhere, that's probably as dangerous. 341 00:16:59.246 --> 00:17:00.967 But I understand your concept. 342 00:17:01.688 --> 00:17:03.609 Yeah, it's hard because no one sees it. 343 00:17:03.990 --> 00:17:05.811 And and then you believe them. 344 00:17:05.871 --> 00:17:07.432 Like, I'll be very blunt with you. 345 00:17:07.452 --> 00:17:10.795 When I went to treatment, I told one of my best friends I was going to treatment. 346 00:17:10.815 --> 00:17:12.216 He says, why the fuck are you going to treatment, dude? 347 00:17:12.236 --> 00:17:13.137 You're not an alcoholic. 348 00:17:13.717 --> 00:17:15.278 I mean, it happened all the time. 349 00:17:15.318 --> 00:17:15.578 Really? 350 00:17:15.998 --> 00:17:16.339 Oh, yeah. 351 00:17:16.439 --> 00:17:19.160 I called the president of my company to tell him I was leaving. 352 00:17:19.340 --> 00:17:20.221 And he goes, what for? 353 00:17:20.341 --> 00:17:20.901 ADD? 354 00:17:21.642 --> 00:17:22.842 I go, no, dumbass. 355 00:17:23.002 --> 00:17:24.103 I've got a drinking problem. 356 00:17:24.143 --> 00:17:25.744 And he goes, but I drink like you. 357 00:17:26.364 --> 00:17:27.205 Like everyone. 358 00:17:27.565 --> 00:17:32.588 There were many people that said I was not I was not the vision of what. 359 00:17:32.628 --> 00:17:35.249 Well, what is the vision of what alcoholism is? 360 00:17:35.269 --> 00:17:41.173 A lot of people think addiction is the guy on the street in the Tenderloin district, you know, shooting heroin and beating their wife. 361 00:17:41.473 --> 00:17:41.653 Yeah. 362 00:17:41.953 --> 00:17:42.994 And there was none of that. 363 00:17:43.074 --> 00:17:44.235 I never touched my wife. 364 00:17:44.395 --> 00:17:46.156 I was a great husband. 365 00:17:46.176 --> 00:17:47.237 At least I thought I was. 366 00:17:47.297 --> 00:17:48.238 I was a great father. 367 00:17:48.278 --> 00:17:49.359 At least I thought I was. 368 00:17:49.979 --> 00:17:52.501 Outwardly, I look like there was zero issues. 369 00:17:52.641 --> 00:17:59.707 So, yes, from your standpoint, from looking at it from that lens, 100%, it's a very hard place to be in. 370 00:18:00.107 --> 00:18:00.388 Okay. 371 00:18:01.123 --> 00:18:04.364 It's much easier if your entire family gets you in a room. 372 00:18:05.204 --> 00:18:06.545 We always make a joke. 373 00:18:06.725 --> 00:18:14.447 If you walk into a room and your entire family is sitting there and there's one person that you've never met before, that is not grandma's fucking birthday party. 374 00:18:14.467 --> 00:18:15.787 That is a fucking intervention. 375 00:18:16.208 --> 00:18:19.949 And look, in some ways, it's much easier than that. 376 00:18:20.369 --> 00:18:21.809 It's much easier that way, right? 377 00:18:21.929 --> 00:18:27.211 Because now everyone in your life is telling you, dude, this has become an issue. 378 00:18:27.251 --> 00:18:29.752 It's much harder for you to make that determination on your own. 379 00:18:30.072 --> 00:18:30.332 Yeah. 380 00:18:31.403 --> 00:18:31.623 Okay. 381 00:18:32.584 --> 00:18:34.346 So now you're in treatment. 382 00:18:34.526 --> 00:18:35.407 You're in rehab. 383 00:18:37.189 --> 00:18:39.512 When does it start to get better? 384 00:18:41.093 --> 00:18:41.794 The second day. 385 00:18:42.275 --> 00:18:43.096 The second day. 386 00:18:43.516 --> 00:18:46.079 Well, it starts to get better because I had... 387 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.583 So there's something that happens to a lot of people like me. 388 00:18:49.603 --> 00:18:51.825 If you go through the 12-step program, you get sober. 389 00:18:51.845 --> 00:18:53.507 They call it having a moment of clarity. 390 00:18:54.948 --> 00:18:55.789 And we'll get into this. 391 00:18:56.389 --> 00:19:03.916 The problem that I have with the traditional way we approach addiction is they want you to be willing and they want you to have a moment of clarity. 392 00:19:05.293 --> 00:19:12.758 And I get that, but it's very hard to have a moment of clarity when you're struggling with the disease that causes you to think irrationally. 393 00:19:12.798 --> 00:19:14.360 Like, how are you going to have a moment of clarity? 394 00:19:14.980 --> 00:19:19.463 What happened for me is we were in treatment and every night you have groups. 395 00:19:19.503 --> 00:19:20.144 So you sit down. 396 00:19:20.184 --> 00:19:21.965 It's like a 12-step meeting. 397 00:19:22.005 --> 00:19:25.288 It's an AA meeting, NA meeting, whatever it is, all wrapped in one. 398 00:19:26.028 --> 00:19:31.775 And there's a big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, and we're reading and you share and you go, I'm Hamilton, I'm an alcoholic. 399 00:19:31.795 --> 00:19:37.302 You have to say you're an alcoholic, which always used to piss me off because I didn't know if I was an alcoholic, but that's what AA is.

400 00:19:38.489 --> 00:19:40.570 And so I said, hey, I'm Hamilton. 401 00:19:40.590 --> 00:19:41.290 I'm an alcoholic. 402 00:19:41.330 --> 00:19:51.193 I said, look, guys, I said, the challenge that I have is if I went to a bar right now and somebody opened a bottle of wine, I think I could have two drinks and I could probably stop in that moment in time. 403 00:19:51.233 --> 00:19:52.334 And I was serious about that. 404 00:19:52.354 --> 00:19:54.034 And I really probably felt like I could. 405 00:19:54.774 --> 00:19:56.215 And I talked for a minute and I shut up. 406 00:19:56.295 --> 00:19:59.656 The next guy looked at me and he shared and he goes, my name's whatever. 407 00:19:59.676 --> 00:20:00.356 I'm an alcoholic. 408 00:20:00.376 --> 00:20:02.177 And he goes, Hamilton, I agree with you. 409 00:20:02.237 --> 00:20:04.798 The only difference with me, he was talking about himself. 410 00:20:04.818 --> 00:20:04.898 And. 411 00:20:05.778 --> 00:20:10.780 is that even though I could stop at two drinks, I would want to drink the whole fucking bar. 412 00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:14.021 And I don't know how to explain it to you, Josh. 413 00:20:14.201 --> 00:20:20.804 It was like a bolt of lightning hit me in the head, and I literally opened my book and I wrote down, I'm an alcoholic. 414 00:20:20.844 --> 00:20:30.047 For the first time, I admitted it because it, and this was the clarity moment for me, I realized for the first time that I did not drink like a normal person. 415 00:20:30.747 --> 00:20:32.568 I thought everyone drank the way I drank. 416 00:20:33.328 --> 00:20:35.669 And that was the moment everything clicked for me. 417 00:20:35.830 --> 00:20:41.993 And it was like, well, if you don't drink like a normal person and this is not normal, why the fuck are you doing it? 418 00:20:42.093 --> 00:20:44.615 And that started the journey to sobriety for me. 419 00:20:44.635 --> 00:20:45.896 It didn't cure everything. 420 00:20:46.336 --> 00:20:50.378 I still said to myself, or maybe when I'm 70, I'll drink again, this and that. 421 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:52.520 But that was the moment it clicked. 422 00:20:52.780 --> 00:20:54.441 And that started the change for me. 423 00:20:54.821 --> 00:20:55.181 Wow. 424 00:20:55.762 --> 00:21:00.664 Would you say... No, I'm going to save that question for when we get into the science behind it. 425 00:21:00.765 --> 00:21:00.865 Okay. 426 00:21:00.885 --> 00:21:00.985 Yeah. 427 00:21:02.003 --> 00:21:04.784 So I want to give a personal example of mine. 428 00:21:04.824 --> 00:21:13.186 So for your perspective, I haven't drank alcohol in eight months, something like that. 429 00:21:13.986 --> 00:21:17.187 And here's where I never considered myself to have a problem. 430 00:21:17.587 --> 00:21:22.488 I'd be the guy that I'd come home, I'd have a glass of wine, a beer, or a glass of scotch. 431 00:21:23.248 --> 00:21:24.350 Never too much. 432 00:21:24.390 --> 00:21:25.872 Not when I was younger, maybe. 433 00:21:26.272 --> 00:21:31.900 But here's where like I needed to test myself is that it was every day. 434 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:33.402 Yep. 435 00:21:33.422 --> 00:21:35.324 For 15 years. 436 00:21:35.344 --> 00:21:35.725 Okay. 437 00:21:36.306 --> 00:21:36.786 Every day. 438 00:21:37.809 --> 00:21:43.132 I'd have to find one if I was traveling or something, and I used it as a way to unwind. 439 00:21:43.793 --> 00:21:48.396 But there was a point where I was like, I don't think that I have it. 440 00:21:48.416 --> 00:21:50.557 And this is why I asked the question before that line moves, right? 441 00:21:51.257 --> 00:21:52.538 I don't think that I have a problem. 442 00:21:52.558 --> 00:21:56.200 I wouldn't classify myself as having a problem, but I need to test myself. 443 00:21:56.260 --> 00:21:56.461 Right. 444 00:21:57.181 --> 00:22:05.246 And that's why—that's when I did that, and I took that time off, and now it's been the first time in 15 years that I haven't drank anything. 445 00:22:05.526 --> 00:22:06.747 more than one night in a row. 446 00:22:06.767 --> 00:22:07.428 And now it's eight months. 447 00:22:08.288 --> 00:22:15.433 And what I found though, is that just with that small amount that I would have every day, my sleep has gotten better. 448 00:22:15.834 --> 00:22:17.735 My emotions are more regulated. 449 00:22:18.295 --> 00:22:25.641 I mean, I I'm feeling physically better when I don't feel like I was overdoing it. 450 00:22:26.261 --> 00:22:26.501 Right. 451 00:22:27.702 --> 00:22:28.503 So what's the question? 452 00:22:28.523 --> 00:22:28.703 Yeah. 453 00:22:30.030 --> 00:22:31.832 I think it's fucking awesome. 454 00:22:31.933 --> 00:22:32.653 Yeah. 455 00:22:32.874 --> 00:22:39.122 I guess the question is, because we're going to transition now into the second part of it. 456 00:22:39.182 --> 00:22:43.507 I guess the question number one is, do you think that I had a problem? 457 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:46.011 Me personally? 458 00:22:46.071 --> 00:22:46.271 No. 459 00:22:46.491 --> 00:22:46.591 Okay. 460 00:22:46.611 --> 00:22:46.712 Okay. 461 00:22:47.650 --> 00:22:47.830 No. 462 00:22:48.611 --> 00:22:49.812 I mean, it could have been gum. 463 00:22:50.053 --> 00:22:52.075 You could have been eating a pack of gum every night. 464 00:22:52.275 --> 00:22:54.938 And you're like, why am I fucking eating a pack of gum every night? 465 00:22:55.098 --> 00:22:57.180 And I want to test that I don't need it anymore. 466 00:22:57.360 --> 00:22:58.762 Yeah, I think that's great. 467 00:22:59.943 --> 00:23:04.568 Now, I also think it's great that you did that, because let's just be very candid. 468 00:23:04.708 --> 00:23:07.911 I think alcohol is a phenomenal fucking drug for the way it makes me feel. 469 00:23:08.071 --> 00:23:09.353 It's also fucking poison. 470 00:23:09.853 --> 00:23:10.113 Sure. 471 00:23:10.273 --> 00:23:11.054 I mean, it's poison. 472 00:23:11.414 --> 00:23:12.474 It is what it is. 473 00:23:12.514 -->

00:23:12.875 Right. 474 00:23:12.955 --> 00:23:22.180 Which is actually the second part to the question is when you drink like this, what does it do to your brain to keep you in that justification state? 475 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.781 I don't know enough clinically about that. 476 00:23:24.921 --> 00:23:28.403 What I do know is it's all about dopamine. 477 00:23:28.963 --> 00:23:29.283 Okay. 478 00:23:29.403 --> 00:23:30.624 It's the same thing with your phone. 479 00:23:30.705 --> 00:23:31.065 Okay. 480 00:23:31.105 --> 00:23:32.426 Look, let's just jump into this. 481 00:23:32.466 --> 00:23:32.986 Yeah, let's do it. 482 00:23:33.327 --> 00:23:35.789 Here's what I've learned about the neurobiology of addiction. 483 00:23:35.849 --> 00:23:37.510 I learned this when I was in rehab. 484 00:23:37.590 --> 00:23:41.854 We had an addiction specialist who's a doctor come in and talk to us about it. 485 00:23:42.574 --> 00:23:48.019 The co-founder of my organization, who's a clinical psychologist named Rich Jones, he talks the same thing. 486 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:49.000 So I know this is true. 487 00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:49.940 All right. 488 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:57.122 So in our brains, we have these neuroreceptors that are always firing and they talk to each other and they spit out all this shit. 489 00:23:57.202 --> 00:24:05.124 When you have sex with your wife, when you see a really pretty sunset, you said you've never broken a bone, which is crazy because you used to be a fucking stuntman. 490 00:24:06.204 --> 00:24:07.684 Your body releases dopamine. 491 00:24:08.105 --> 00:24:12.886 And if you're in pain, it releases dopamine to help you with the pain, gives you the sensation of this and that. 492 00:24:14.837 --> 00:24:15.758 Here's the way I explain it. 493 00:24:16.038 --> 00:24:26.826 Normal people, normies, I call them, people like my wife, people like you that can have one or two drinks, whatever, your baseline level of dopamine in those neuroreceptors is a 10. 494 00:24:27.266 --> 00:24:28.367 It will always be a 10. 495 00:24:28.407 --> 00:24:29.288 That's your baseline. 496 00:24:29.328 --> 00:24:31.069 Just like you have what color? 497 00:24:31.089 --> 00:24:31.649 Brown eyes? 498 00:24:32.050 --> 00:24:33.150 You're never going to have blue eyes. 499 00:24:33.871 --> 00:24:34.892 When you have a drink... 500 00:24:35.512 --> 00:24:38.974 Your dopamine goes from 10 to 10 and a half or 11. 501 00:24:39.274 --> 00:24:42.535 And that extra dopamine makes you feel good. 502 00:24:43.095 --> 00:24:45.236 And then eventually your body goes back down to 10. 503 00:24:46.017 --> 00:24:47.237 This is where it gets crazy. 504 00:24:47.597 --> 00:24:51.439 My level of dopamine in my brain, my steady state is a nine. 505 00:24:52.019 --> 00:24:53.280 I'm just doing this for reference. 506 00:24:53.340 --> 00:24:53.940 Mine's a nine. 507 00:24:54.581 --> 00:24:55.501 Here's the difference. 508 00:24:55.641 --> 00:24:57.762 And I know this as a

fact to be true. 509 00:24:57.862 --> 00:25:01.284 When I have a drink, my nine goes to 24. 510 00:25:03.110 --> 00:25:06.111 The feeling that I get from alcohol, you will never experience. 511 00:25:06.411 --> 00:25:09.352 I'm telling you, I thought it was bullshit. 512 00:25:09.812 --> 00:25:15.974 Three years into my sobriety, I'm in Vegas at a meeting with my CEO at the time. 513 00:25:16.454 --> 00:25:17.494 It's the middle of the day. 514 00:25:17.694 --> 00:25:19.255 I order a club soda with a lime. 515 00:25:19.795 --> 00:25:20.595 She does too. 516 00:25:20.995 --> 00:25:22.056 They bring the glass. 517 00:25:22.316 --> 00:25:22.916 I grab it. 518 00:25:23.136 --> 00:25:24.276 I take a huge swig. 519 00:25:24.496 --> 00:25:25.957 It is straight fucking vodka. 520 00:25:27.177 --> 00:25:30.078 It was the greatest two seconds of my life. 521 00:25:30.518 --> 00:25:31.319 It hit me. 522 00:25:31.459 --> 00:25:33.539 I go, oh, my God. 523 00:25:33.979 --> 00:25:36.801 Within seconds with my brain, it starts firing. 524 00:25:36.921 --> 00:25:39.982 And I go, oh, my God. 525 00:25:40.122 --> 00:25:41.862 And I go, I can do this again. 526 00:25:42.042 --> 00:25:43.543 One night, no one will know. 527 00:25:43.563 --> 00:25:45.124 I'm just going to get up from the table. 528 00:25:45.144 --> 00:25:46.124 I'm going to go upstairs. 529 00:25:46.324 --> 00:25:47.004 No one needs to know. 530 00:25:47.064 --> 00:25:48.705 I'm going to get fucked up tonight. 531 00:25:49.303 --> 00:25:49.863 That fast. 532 00:25:50.104 --> 00:25:50.724 That fast. 533 00:25:50.764 --> 00:25:51.465 Now, I didn't do it. 534 00:25:51.705 --> 00:25:53.106 I told my CEO immediately. 535 00:25:53.346 --> 00:25:54.046 They replaced it. 536 00:25:54.087 --> 00:25:55.407 This is actually a funny story. 537 00:25:55.968 --> 00:25:59.310 I tell this on most interviews I do is I went upstairs. 538 00:25:59.370 --> 00:26:00.171 I called the hotel. 539 00:26:00.191 --> 00:26:00.911 I was at the Wynn. 540 00:26:01.032 --> 00:26:02.933 And I go, you guys are jackasses. 541 00:26:03.073 --> 00:26:04.374 I go, you can't do this. 542 00:26:04.514 --> 00:26:05.475 I said, I'm fine. 543 00:26:06.135 --> 00:26:08.537 I said, but somebody else may spin out of control. 544 00:26:08.557 --> 00:26:09.938 You got to be really careful. 545 00:26:10.078 --> 00:26:12.160 And so they sent me a fruit plate to my room. 546 00:26:13.175 --> 00:26:14.016 I'm so sorry. 547 00:26:14.076 --> 00:26:15.197 So I take a picture of it. 548 00:26:15.237 --> 00:26:16.138 I send it to my wife. 549 00:26:16.198 --> 00:26:17.119 I go, only me. 550 00:26:17.179 --> 00:26:22.303 I go to Vegas, accidentally break my sobriety, and all I get is a fucking fruit plate. 551 00:26:22.964 --> 00:26:25.626 But it took about an hour and a half for me to calm down. 552 00:26:25.686 --> 00:26:27.448 So let's go back to the Neurobiology of Addiction. 553 00:26:27.488 --> 00:26:28.349 So mine goes to 24. 554 00:26:29.790 --> 00:26:34.112 There's this thing in your brain called the CDF factor that is like a thermostat. 555 00:26:34.132 --> 00:26:36.774 So when yours goes to 11, it pushes it back down to 10. 556 00:26:36.814 --> 00:26:40.916 When mine goes to 24, the CDF factor goes, holy shit, this is too high. 557 00:26:40.996 --> 00:26:45.118 And it shoves it down, but it shoves it too low, shoves it to eight and a half. 558 00:26:45.838 --> 00:26:47.319 So now I'm not at my norm. 559 00:26:47.439 --> 00:26:48.560 My norm is nine. 560 00:26:48.900 --> 00:26:50.261 So how do you get it back up to a nine? 561 00:26:50.502 --> 00:26:50.762 Drink. 562 00:26:51.162 --> 00:26:52.283 That's the vicious cycle. 563 00:26:52.803 --> 00:26:55.805 And is that for all addiction? 564 00:26:55.886 --> 00:26:56.826 Is that just for you? 565 00:26:56.866 --> 00:26:58.808 That's the way that we describe addiction. 566 00:26:58.848 --> 00:26:59.488 It's the same. 567 00:26:59.528 --> 00:27:04.292 If you're addicted to social media on your phone, when you're on your phone scrolling at night, your dopamine's firing. 568 00:27:04.312 --> 00:27:04.672 So high level. 569 00:27:04.672 --> 00:27:13.497 level concept if somebody had the same genetic or chemical makeup as you, they could get just as addicted to social media as you did to alcohol? 570 00:27:13.737 --> 00:27:14.498 A hundred percent. 571 00:27:14.898 --> 00:27:17.399 Why are some people addicted to gambling, but they don't drink? 572 00:27:17.459 --> 00:27:18.620 I was going to say gambling. 573 00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.421 Gambling is a huge one. 574 00:27:19.721 --> 00:27:21.202 And look, I'm a recovered addict. 575 00:27:21.422 --> 00:27:23.323 I don't fucking understand the gambling addiction. 576 00:27:23.463 --> 00:27:23.683 Yeah. 577 00:27:23.823 --> 00:27:25.024 And it's funny you said that. 578 00:27:25.044 --> 00:27:26.365 I was just talking to a guy the other day. 579 00:27:26.465 --> 00:27:30.729 Why do some people get addicted to gambling, but they don't get addicted to alcohol? 580 00:27:30.769 --> 00:27:32.251 Why do some people get addicted to alcohol? 581 00:27:32.451 --> 00:27:33.872 I don't know the answer to that question. 582 00:27:35.033 --> 00:27:36.815 But I think it's with whatever you are. 583 00:27:36.915 --> 00:27:41.459 Now, this leads us into the argument, well, you're just trading one addiction to another. 584 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:43.701 You stopped drinking, but now you work out all the time. 585 00:27:43.961 --> 00:27:45.082 So fucking what? 586 00:27:45.342 --> 00:27:45.983 One's good for you. 587 00:27:46.043 --> 00:27:46.463 One's not. 588 00:27:46.523 --> 00:27:47.384 That's exactly right. 589 00:27:47.484 --> 00:27:48.085 Yeah, absolutely. 590 00:27:48.125 --> 00:27:48.906 Who gives a shit? 591 00:27:49.806 --> 00:27:52.068 I mean, but that is the fascinating thing. 592 00:27:52.148 --> 00:28:02.213 And the last part of it about the neurobiology of addiction, us as humans are the only

people on the planet that have basically two sides to their brain. 593 00:28:02.254 --> 00:28:05.996 We have a thinking side of our brain and then we have the survival side of our brain. 594 00:28:06.056 --> 00:28:08.137 Well, if the cortex and the limbic. 595 00:28:08.437 --> 00:28:12.001 If both of those ever fight, survival always wins. 596 00:28:12.241 --> 00:28:13.302 And here's the proof of it. 597 00:28:13.462 --> 00:28:15.023 And this is the one that blew my mind. 598 00:28:15.484 --> 00:28:18.587 So when you drowned, everybody that drowns has water in their lungs. 599 00:28:18.607 --> 00:28:19.247 Okay? 600 00:28:20.008 --> 00:28:21.169 So I fall off of a boat. 601 00:28:21.229 --> 00:28:22.691 I got a cinder block tied to my leg. 602 00:28:22.751 --> 00:28:23.572 I'm under the water. 603 00:28:24.092 --> 00:28:28.857 The thinking part of my brain is saying, Hamilton, don't take a breath because you're going to get water in your lungs. 604 00:28:29.417 --> 00:28:32.920 So I'm consciously saying don't breathe because I'm trapped underneath the water. 605 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:33.760 You're going to die. 606 00:28:34.261 --> 00:28:37.703 Well, the survival part of your brain is saying your lungs need oxygen. 607 00:28:37.763 --> 00:28:38.764 You have to breathe. 608 00:28:38.864 --> 00:28:39.665 And so they fight. 609 00:28:39.985 --> 00:28:41.626 And ultimately, survival wins. 610 00:28:42.287 --> 00:28:44.168 You take a breath, water in your lungs, you drown. 611 00:28:44.708 --> 00:28:44.969 Okay? 612 00:28:45.309 --> 00:28:46.550 Survival will always win. 613 00:28:46.670 --> 00:28:52.954 So when my dopamine is below my normal level, my body thinks I'm dying and says, you have to drink. 614 00:28:53.915 --> 00:28:54.636 That's the thing. 615 00:28:54.676 --> 00:28:58.498 So my wife would say to me all the time, you don't love me enough to drink like a normal person. 616 00:28:59.098 --> 00:29:01.920 I wasn't capable of drinking like a normal person. 617 00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:05.683 I'm not that clicked for me because now I know. 618 00:29:07.364 --> 00:29:08.484 This is this is funny. 619 00:29:08.564 --> 00:29:18.030 My wife will say to me, if they invented a pill that you could take that after your second drink, you absolutely would not want another drink. 620 00:29:18.090 --> 00:29:18.771 Would you take it? 621 00:29:19.631 --> 00:29:20.372 No chance in hell. 622 00:29:21.292 --> 00:29:22.273 Because I know I would want it. 623 00:29:22.453 --> 00:29:24.894 Even if it said I wouldn't want it, I would want that drink. 624 00:29:25.115 --> 00:29:28.497 I know for a fact I don't want to have two drinks and stop. 625 00:29:28.597 --> 00:29:29.277 I know that. 626 00:29:30.218 --> 00:29:30.758 No desire. 627 00:29:31.179 --> 00:29:34.441 So if that's the case, then why even waste my fucking time? 628 00:29:34.461 --> 00:29:35.962 I'm not going to do it. 629 00:29:36.082 --> 00:29:36.302 Yeah. 630 00:29:36.842 --> 00:29:38.704 So how long has it been now since you last year? 631 00:29:38.764 --> 00:29:39.064 14 years. 632 00:29:39.284 --> 00:29:39.724 14 years. 633 00:29:39.744 --> 00:29:39.984 Yeah. 634 00:29:40.125 --> 00:29:40.765 Congratulations. 635 00:29:40.805 --> 00:29:41.245 Thank you, sir. 636 00:29:41.265 --> 00:29:42.206 All right. 637 00:29:42.726 --> 00:29:46.889 Now I want to talk a little bit about the traditional methods. 638 00:29:47.189 --> 00:29:47.469 Okay. 639 00:29:47.750 --> 00:29:48.110 So... 640 00:29:50.188 --> 00:29:57.515 We were talking before the show, and you said the traditional approach works, but only for some people. 641 00:29:57.675 --> 00:29:58.055 That's right. 642 00:29:58.255 --> 00:29:58.796 Not everyone. 643 00:29:58.836 --> 00:30:00.718 And would you argue not for the majority? 644 00:30:01.118 --> 00:30:02.599 Oh, my God, not for the majority. 645 00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:05.202 And as we go through this, you'll quickly see why that is. 646 00:30:05.222 --> 00:30:05.822 All right. 647 00:30:06.223 --> 00:30:12.348 First, walk me through the roadblocks that traditional intervention has. 648 00:30:12.468 --> 00:30:13.990 Well, let's talk about traditional first. 649 00:30:14.050 --> 00:30:14.911 What is traditional? 650 00:30:14.951 --> 00:30:15.711 Traditional is... 651 00:30:17.042 --> 00:30:18.483 quite frankly, clinical in nature. 652 00:30:18.503 --> 00:30:18.863 Okay. 653 00:30:19.043 --> 00:30:24.547 Even if it's a 12-step program, that's the clinical framework is, Josh, you have a problem. 654 00:30:24.667 --> 00:30:26.388 If it's addiction, you have to quit today. 655 00:30:26.428 --> 00:30:27.929 You have to quit for the rest of your life. 656 00:30:28.269 --> 00:30:30.790 There's all these different tools that you can use to get there. 657 00:30:30.810 --> 00:30:33.572 You can go to ARNA, which is a 12-step program. 658 00:30:33.592 --> 00:30:37.094 You can go see a therapist or psychologist or a psychiatrist. 659 00:30:37.114 --> 00:30:38.455 You can have CBT therapy. 660 00:30:38.475 --> 00:30:39.216 There's medication. 661 00:30:39.256 --> 00:30:40.036 There's all these things. 662 00:30:40.056 --> 00:30:42.438 But you got to do one of those things. 663 00:30:42.458 --> 00:30:43.118 Okay. 664 00:30:43.498 --> 00:30:51.600 And and basically the way we treat it is we're going to let Josh struggle because that's the only that's the only option. 665 00:30:52.100 --> 00:30:55.181 So when Josh comes to me, like, let me just back up a minute. 666 00:30:55.221 --> 00:30:57.561 When I was 20, I told you I knew I had a drinking problem. 667 00:30:58.381 --> 00:31:00.182 I didn't raise my hand for 22 years. 668 00:31:00.302 --> 00:31:00.602 Why? 669 00:31:01.382 --> 00:31:03.542 Because I knew what the treatment was. 670 00:31:03.722 --> 00:31:05.583 I had to quit for the rest of my life. 671 00:31:06.573 --> 00:31:08.014 And I was not going to do that. 672 00:31:08.034 --> 00:31:08.715 You weren't ready to quit. 673 00:31:08.775

--> 00:31:09.836 I wasn't ready to quit. 674 00:31:09.916 --> 00:31:11.176 So I didn't raise my hand. 675 00:31:11.877 --> 00:31:18.742 I only raised my hand when I basically was forced into it, not by my wife, but because I wanted to save this. 676 00:31:18.762 --> 00:31:19.583 And that's what I did it. 677 00:31:20.103 --> 00:31:22.265 So here are the three gaps that that causes. 678 00:31:22.325 --> 00:31:23.986 Number one, and this is factual data. 679 00:31:24.006 --> 00:31:27.148 If we're talking strictly about addiction, we can talk about mental health as well. 680 00:31:27.609 --> 00:31:33.293 Ninety five percent of people that struggle will never raise their hand, ask for help and enter clinical treatment. 681 00:31:33.773 --> 00:31:34.634 Ninety five percent. 682 00:31:34.654 --> 00:31:35.535 Ninety five percent. 683 00:31:36.235 --> 00:31:37.497 I was one of the 5%. 684 00:31:38.217 --> 00:31:38.858 Why is that? 685 00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:41.000 And there's all kinds of reasons. 686 00:31:41.081 --> 00:31:42.062 It's stigma. 687 00:31:42.202 --> 00:31:43.864 It costs too much money. 688 00:31:43.884 --> 00:31:44.925 It's this, it's that. 689 00:31:44.945 --> 00:31:46.887 What's the biggest reason? 690 00:31:46.947 --> 00:31:52.153 97% will tell you it's the scariest fucking thing you'll ever do in your life, and it's very black and white. 691 00:31:52.213 --> 00:31:53.154 There's no gray area. 692 00:31:53.174 --> 00:31:53.614 Okay. 693 00:31:53.634 --> 00:31:53.895 Okay. 694 00:31:54.195 --> 00:32:02.778 So you come to me, you're struggling, you go, Hamilton, I have this great podcast, I have my company, I have my family, I can't leave and go to treatment. 695 00:32:02.798 --> 00:32:05.539 And to be quite honest with you, I don't even know if I want to quit. 696 00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:09.321 It doesn't matter how much I love you and how nice I say it. 697 00:32:10.021 --> 00:32:14.223 The underlying theme of what I'm going to say to you is, well, Josh, you're an alcoholic. 698 00:32:15.653 --> 00:32:18.275 And if you don't want to do this, you're just in denial. 699 00:32:18.375 --> 00:32:20.036 Go experience more pain. 700 00:32:20.176 --> 00:32:21.577 Have a moment of clarity. 701 00:32:21.877 --> 00:32:26.681 Or, and this one pisses me off more than anything, we'll wait till you hit rock bottom. 702 00:32:27.501 --> 00:32:29.863 And then you'll be ready and you'll come back and see me. 703 00:32:29.963 --> 00:32:31.204 That's the willingness thing. 704 00:32:31.324 --> 00:32:34.907 Is that literally a narrative that gets pushed out there? 705 00:32:35.047 --> 00:32:36.768 You got to hit rock bottom before? 706 00:32:37.028 --> 00:32:40.070 Look at my counselor, Sam, in treatment. 707 00:32:40.110 --> 00:32:40.771 You're a pussy. 708 00:32:40.831 --> 00:32:41.411 Go home. 709 00:32:41.611 --> 00:32:42.232 You'll be back. 710 00:32:43.582 --> 00:32:44.883 Fentanyl changed all of that. 711 00:32:45.644 --> 00:32:53.790 Because 13 years ago, 14 years ago, I could have left and gone and started drinking again and even taken ecstasy and Coke, and I wouldn't have probably died. 712 00:32:54.651 --> 00:32:57.533 Some people do, but the vast majority of people wouldn't. 713 00:32:57.573 --> 00:33:00.956 They could experience more pain, and then when they hit rock bottom, they come back. 714 00:33:01.096 --> 00:33:05.339 Now I go out, and I do Coke or I do weed, and it's laced with fentanyl. 715 00:33:05.379 --> 00:33:06.079 Now I'm dead. 716 00:33:06.100 --> 00:33:07.360 Now you can't help anybody. 717 00:33:07.380 --> 00:33:07.981 Right. 718 00:33:08.161 --> 00:33:09.781 So that's the first gap. 719 00:33:10.122 --> 00:33:16.783 To me, it's criminal when you say to me, Hamilton, I'm struggling and I want help, and I only give you one option. 720 00:33:16.803 --> 00:33:19.744 And if you don't take it, I say, well, come back and see me when you're ready. 721 00:33:19.784 --> 00:33:24.605 Yeah, if you don't take it, then it's kind of goodbye and good luck. 722 00:33:24.945 --> 00:33:28.266 I use this example, but I'll use a different one today, diabetes. 723 00:33:28.466 --> 00:33:30.927 Imagine you come into me and I said, you have diabetes. 724 00:33:31.587 --> 00:33:33.008 And you need to do this and that. 725 00:33:33.208 --> 00:33:34.828 And you go, I don't want to do that. 726 00:33:34.848 --> 00:33:40.331 And I go, all right, well, when we have to chop off your leg and you go into a diabetic coma, you'll be ready for the insulin. 727 00:33:40.371 --> 00:33:41.491 So we're going to wait for that. 728 00:33:41.691 --> 00:33:41.991 Yeah. 729 00:33:42.431 --> 00:33:46.433 Peter Atiyah, he describes this as medicine 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0. 730 00:33:46.553 --> 00:33:47.253 Yeah. 731 00:33:47.333 --> 00:33:47.574 Right. 732 00:33:47.854 --> 00:33:50.395 And kind of in the same realm, not... 733 00:33:51.936 --> 00:33:57.941 uh, towards addiction, but medicine 1.0 being the, the primitive form of medicine. 734 00:33:57.961 --> 00:34:03.126 We don't even know works 2.0 waiting until there's a problem 3.0 getting ahead of it. 735 00:34:03.146 --> 00:34:03.446 That's right. 736 00:34:03.747 --> 00:34:05.048 Well, think about it as cancer. 737 00:34:05.568 --> 00:34:09.552 If I get melanoma on my arm because I don't wear sunscreen, it's a mole. 738 00:34:10.133 --> 00:34:11.474 And I go to a dermatologist. 739 00:34:12.094 --> 00:34:15.297 The first treatment is to take that mole off using Mohs surgery. 740 00:34:16.367 --> 00:34:20.750 Then if it metastasized, then you go to the next level and next level and next level. 741 00:34:20.790 --> 00:34:24.211 So imagine I go to a doctor and he goes, hey, you got a mole on your arm. 742 00:34:24.672 --> 00:34:25.772 You don't wear sunscreen. 743 00:34:25.932 --> 00:34:26.693 It's melanoma. 744 00:34:28.594 --> 00:34:35.298 I'm going to treat you with stage four chemo because you don't you're not going to go out and start wearing sunscreen

again. 745 00:34:35.358 --> 00:34:38.339 I'm going to wait until this metastasize and then I'll treat you. 746 00:34:38.379 --> 00:34:42.742 There's never been any treatment for addiction other than you have to quit for the rest of your life. 747 00:34:42.942 --> 00:34:43.562 Does that make sense? 748 00:34:43.582 --> 00:34:43.682 Yeah. 749 00:34:43.703 --> 00:34:43.863 Yeah. 750 00:34:44.783 --> 00:34:46.364 And that's the first gap. 751 00:34:46.384 --> 00:34:47.325 That's the biggest gap. 752 00:34:47.405 --> 00:34:49.787 And our philosophy is very different, which we'll get into. 753 00:34:49.907 --> 00:34:50.267 We will. 754 00:34:50.287 --> 00:34:51.148 What's the second gap? 755 00:34:51.208 --> 00:34:52.469 The second gap is the family. 756 00:34:52.869 --> 00:34:54.050 We never support the family. 757 00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:54.831 This is the joke. 758 00:34:54.931 --> 00:34:57.713 I have three daughters, so I always pick on my son who I don't have. 759 00:34:57.833 --> 00:35:05.779 If my son got diagnosed with cancer today, think about very rationally how many of my friends and family would show up at my house. 760 00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:13.907 with whatever casseroles and food for days and throw their arms around me and say how sorry they are and how much they love me and they'll support me. 761 00:35:13.927 --> 00:35:16.550 Okay, now picture my kids a heroin addict. 762 00:35:17.903 --> 00:35:18.603 No one's coming over. 763 00:35:19.084 --> 00:35:19.344 No. 764 00:35:19.664 --> 00:35:21.625 More importantly, I'm not telling anybody. 765 00:35:21.745 --> 00:35:24.446 In fact, if they do know, they're probably avoiding you. 766 00:35:24.586 --> 00:35:26.887 They're avoiding me and they're talking about me behind my back. 767 00:35:26.967 --> 00:35:28.468 And I'm not going to bring it up to anybody. 768 00:35:28.648 --> 00:35:28.848 Sure. 769 00:35:29.128 --> 00:35:31.969 So family has to be supported. 770 00:35:32.029 --> 00:35:34.771 This is interesting because I know you do a lot with businesses. 771 00:35:35.131 --> 00:35:42.834 They did a study and found that family members of addicts are five times more likely to be hospitalized in a given year than the general population. 772 00:35:43.074 --> 00:35:43.855 Family members of addicts? 773 00:35:43.875 --> 00:35:44.295 Family members. 774 00:35:44.315 --> 00:35:44.455 Yeah. 775 00:35:44.515 --> 00:35:44.915 of addicts. 776 00:35:45.135 --> 00:35:48.236 Stressed out of your mind, you're anxious all the time. 777 00:35:48.376 --> 00:35:56.339 So for various reasons, stress being an underlying factor to contributing to those reasons, they're more likely to be hospitalized. 778 00:35:56.680 --> 00:35:57.000 Wow. 779 00:35:57.200 --> 00:35:58.260 Crazy, right? 780 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.481 Family has to be supported for that reason only. 781 00:36:01.862 --> 00:36:12.506 But the other reason is, and this is the secret, if I can get your family engaged and actually understand what's going on, we have a much better chance of getting that individual better. 782 00:36:12.646 --> 00:36:13.426 Perfect example. 783 00:36:14.326 --> 00:36:16.647 This is going to sound absolutely fucking crazy. 784 00:36:16.807 --> 00:36:18.627 My wife did not want me to quit drinking. 785 00:36:19.868 --> 00:36:21.208 She wanted me to drink like her. 786 00:36:22.328 --> 00:36:26.530 She didn't understand, nor did I, quite frankly, the neurobiology of addiction. 787 00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:34.732 I didn't understand and she didn't understand that I am physically, mentally, genetically incapable of drinking like that. 788 00:36:35.573 --> 00:36:36.233 Does that make sense? 789 00:36:36.253 --> 00:36:36.553 Yeah. 790 00:36:36.693 --> 00:36:45.857 Once she got that, the light bulb went off and she said, holy shit, I've been beaten up on this kid and he's not even capable of doing what I wanted him to do. 791 00:36:45.917 --> 00:36:47.158 And I stopped beating up myself. 792 00:36:47.338 --> 00:36:47.578 Right. 793 00:36:47.618 --> 00:36:53.900 So she she liked who you were when you were drinking because you were not a mean drunk or some of these other things that you hear about. 794 00:36:54.401 --> 00:36:59.863 And she just wanted you to dial it down to the level that you could have fun together and I could have a drink. 795 00:36:59.903 --> 00:37:00.763 You could have a drink. 796 00:37:00.963 --> 00:37:02.064 Nice night, whatever. 797 00:37:02.624 --> 00:37:04.245 But you were incapable of doing that. 798 00:37:04.265 --> 00:37:04.745 Incapable. 799 00:37:05.385 --> 00:37:06.966 of your dopamine levels. 800 00:37:07.206 --> 00:37:07.366 Yep. 801 00:37:08.007 --> 00:37:09.488 So family has to be supported. 802 00:37:09.528 --> 00:37:10.408 That's gap number two. 803 00:37:10.468 --> 00:37:18.713 And then the third gap, and quite frankly, this is the one that's most interesting to me, is just like any other type of healthcare, you know, 804 00:37:19.332 --> 00:37:23.414 adherence, engagement, and compliance is the most important thing. 805 00:37:23.434 --> 00:37:24.254 So I'll give you an example. 806 00:37:24.374 --> 00:37:33.618 In this country, diabetics that are newly diagnosed six months in, 90% of them, I believe, are eating healthier, working out, or taking insulin. 807 00:37:33.678 --> 00:37:36.939 They are actually adherent to the treatment plan that they were prescribed. 808 00:37:37.379 --> 00:37:39.080 With behavioral health, that number is 11%. 809 00:37:41.125 --> 00:37:49.069 So that's why when you send people to treatment, 60% of people relapse and 50% of those have to go back to treatment. 810 00:37:49.109 --> 00:37:50.609 Most people, I'm an anomaly. 811 00:37:50.669 --> 00:37:52.630 Most people go to treatment two or three times. 812 00:37:52.690 --> 00:37:55.011 They have to do it over and over and over again. 813 00:37:55.131 --> 00:37:58.633 And it's because they don't stay adherent to the treatment plan. 814 00:37:58.673 -->

00:38:00.054 Here's another fascinating thing. 815 00:38:00.094 --> 00:38:06.177 And this is, if anybody is listening to this podcast that is in recovery, this is going to piss them off and I don't give a shit. 816 00:38:07.257 --> 00:38:09.860 There's a guy at Harvard named Dr. John Martin. 817 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:17.529 He did a study, and what he found is if we can get people engaged in positive change, yes, that can be treatment. 818 00:38:18.310 --> 00:38:25.598 But it can also be things like self-help, like working out, getting, quote-unquote, addicted to something else, as long as they stay engaged. 819 00:38:26.078 --> 00:38:30.780 adherent to that positive change for six months or longer, 75% of people get better. 820 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:34.201 It is not true that everybody has to go get clinical care. 821 00:38:34.341 --> 00:38:35.221 I'll give you an example. 822 00:38:35.341 --> 00:38:39.603 Guarantee you, I've never talked to you about this, guaranteed you're going to nod your head right. 823 00:38:40.283 --> 00:38:46.866 I bet you know someone that used to drink too much, that either got married, got into CrossFit, or got into religion and they changed the way they drink. 824 00:38:47.126 --> 00:38:47.686 Several people. 825 00:38:47.706 --> 00:38:51.407 They probably still drink, but they don't drink anywhere near they need to. 826 00:38:51.547 --> 00:38:52.708 That is living proof. 827 00:38:53.248 --> 00:38:57.309 That you know, there are people like me for all the recovery people out there. 828 00:38:57.889 --> 00:38:58.649 I couldn't do that. 829 00:38:58.849 --> 00:39:00.269 If I could, I would have figured it out. 830 00:39:00.409 --> 00:39:00.629 Yeah. 831 00:39:00.910 --> 00:39:02.730 But there are people that can. 832 00:39:03.470 --> 00:39:07.771 And it's all about the adherent to whatever that plan is you put in front of them. 833 00:39:07.811 --> 00:39:08.571 That's interesting. 834 00:39:08.591 --> 00:39:09.771 What would qualify? 835 00:39:09.791 --> 00:39:12.372 Like, where's the line between what's better? 836 00:39:12.492 --> 00:39:14.452 What's a better addiction working out? 837 00:39:14.512 --> 00:39:15.292 That's an easy one. 838 00:39:15.412 --> 00:39:15.592 Right. 839 00:39:15.632 --> 00:39:18.013 But what about like alcohol versus porn? 840 00:39:19.415 --> 00:39:19.996 You know what? 841 00:39:20.156 --> 00:39:23.964 That is what makes this such a fascinating conversation. 842 00:39:23.984 --> 00:39:26.268 That's not for me to decide. 843 00:39:26.529 --> 00:39:27.010 That is... 844 00:39:29.243 --> 00:39:30.764 Yeah, that actually is. 845 00:39:30.844 --> 00:39:32.045 I've told you this a number of times. 846 00:39:32.085 --> 00:39:33.685 That is a phenomenal question. 847 00:39:33.786 --> 00:39:40.969 But ask yourself the question, would you rather be if you're in a marriage and you love your wife and it doesn't bother your wife? 848 00:39:41.850 --> 00:39:44.391 And I mean, porn's not going to kill

you. 849 00:39:44.411 --> 00:39:46.552 It's not making you physically sick. 850 00:39:46.672 --> 00:39:49.574 If you watch porn every night, maybe you do it too much. 851 00:39:49.794 --> 00:39:50.555 Is that better? 852 00:39:50.755 --> 00:39:52.115 Or being addicted to heroin? 853 00:39:52.316 --> 00:39:53.016 I would say porn. 854 00:39:53.276 --> 00:39:54.896 I mean, that's my personal opinion. 855 00:39:54.916 --> 00:39:56.237 I probably would too. 856 00:39:56.317 --> 00:40:00.018 No, I'm not—no one out there believed that I think you should go and get a porn addiction. 857 00:40:00.038 --> 00:40:14.922 We're not condoning to go watch porn, but that's why I'm curious about this because I'm sure that there's people out there listening to this conversation trying to reconcile in their head of the things that they think that they can do or maybe they did. 858 00:40:14.942 --> 00:40:15.702 Yeah. 859 00:40:15.722 --> 00:40:17.122 And they're like, oh, did I do it right? 860 00:40:17.142 --> 00:40:18.042 Did I not do it right? 861 00:40:18.122 --> 00:40:18.482 I don't know. 862 00:40:18.883 --> 00:40:19.583 I mean, look, I— 863 00:40:20.563 --> 00:40:26.065 I mean, I think the way we should all go through life is if you could do most things in moderation, I think life would be pretty easy. 864 00:40:26.105 --> 00:40:27.685 But unfortunately, we just can't do that. 865 00:40:27.925 --> 00:40:28.986 And we are who we are. 866 00:40:30.726 --> 00:40:33.067 You know, I'm addicted to work without question. 867 00:40:34.107 --> 00:40:35.248 And is it healthy for me? 868 00:40:35.748 --> 00:40:41.670 Probably not, because I run really hot all the time, not angry, but just always going. 869 00:40:41.870 --> 00:40:43.690 And I'm sure that creates stress. 870 00:40:43.750 --> 00:40:45.031 I'm sure that's not healthy. 871 00:40:45.811 --> 00:40:51.813 But if I had to choose between that or destroying my life and being an alcoholic and getting liver disease, that's what I'm going to do. 872 00:40:51.833 --> 00:40:53.893 Perfect example of what I was saying. 873 00:40:53.973 --> 00:40:54.473 Yeah. 874 00:40:54.793 --> 00:40:56.994 And I completely resonate with that, too. 875 00:40:57.374 --> 00:41:00.275 Now, I don't think as high of a motor as you do. 876 00:41:00.775 --> 00:41:02.655 You know, I can just tell that by talking with you. 877 00:41:02.975 --> 00:41:04.616 But I do bear loads. 878 00:41:05.116 --> 00:41:05.276 Yeah. 879 00:41:05.296 --> 00:41:05.416 Right. 880 00:41:05.436 --> 00:41:09.777 So I'll be that calm, cool and collected guy in the office, but I'll put it all on my fucking back. 881 00:41:10.217 --> 00:41:19.379 And so, you know, from a business standpoint and, you know, trading one for the other kind of thing, I would still say that that's better than being an alcoholic. 882 00:41:19.819 --> 00:41:20.419 Oh, 100%. 883 00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:21.879 I mean, that's my opinion. 884 00:41:21.919 --> 00:41:22.099 Yeah. 885 00:41:22.319 -->

00:41:23.799 But that's not for me to decide. 886 00:41:23.819 --> 00:41:24.199 No, of course. 887 00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:25.860 But my philosophy is very simple. 888 00:41:26.060 --> 00:41:37.862 If Josh, you had a drinking problem and the 12 steps and everything wasn't right for you and you said, Hamilton, I think if I stand on my head for five minutes a day in the corner of the room. 889 00:41:38.582 --> 00:41:39.343 I will get better. 890 00:41:39.583 --> 00:41:40.883 I would say, let's give it a shot. 891 00:41:41.424 --> 00:41:44.365 Now, the likelihood that's going to work is probably going to be slim to none. 892 00:41:44.445 --> 00:41:47.407 But if that does work, why would we not try that? 893 00:41:48.187 --> 00:41:52.610 That is just they're not everyone in this country. 894 00:41:53.130 --> 00:41:55.792 Everyone in this country, everyone in this world thinks differently. 895 00:41:55.972 --> 00:41:57.212 We all learn differently. 896 00:41:57.232 --> 00:41:58.013 We all learn. 897 00:41:59.876 --> 00:42:01.197 We're just very different people. 898 00:42:01.277 --> 00:42:06.642 So why is it that there's only one philosophy on how we get people to change? 899 00:42:06.862 --> 00:42:08.403 And that's the frustration I have. 900 00:42:08.883 --> 00:42:12.086 So again, I go back to what I said, dude, traditional treatment works. 901 00:42:12.606 --> 00:42:15.188 And a lot of people that come into our program... 902 00:42:16.109 --> 00:42:18.210 We end up getting them to traditional treatment. 903 00:42:18.270 --> 00:42:19.130 And we'll talk about that. 904 00:42:19.291 --> 00:42:21.972 But because I need it and we need to get them there. 905 00:42:22.572 --> 00:42:24.413 But we're going to get them there much faster. 906 00:42:24.693 --> 00:42:28.455 And they're going to be much more apt to want to do it because of the way we do it. 907 00:42:28.515 --> 00:42:32.336 Then me just pointing at you and saying, here's a very funny example. 908 00:42:32.497 --> 00:42:34.657 I've never met your wife before, but I know you're married. 909 00:42:34.698 --> 00:42:35.438 I know you got kids. 910 00:42:35.938 --> 00:42:39.080 Imagine going to your wife tonight and say, babe, you know, I've been looking at you. 911 00:42:39.100 --> 00:42:40.240 You're getting a little fat. 912 00:42:40.940 --> 00:42:42.241 You need to start working out. 913 00:42:42.321 --> 00:42:43.982 And I want you to work out three times a day. 914 00:42:44.682 --> 00:42:46.103 You're, you're, you're done. 915 00:42:46.123 --> 00:42:46.663 Yeah, you're done. 916 00:42:46.683 --> 00:42:49.464 You know, I might try that just as a social experiment. 917 00:42:49.725 --> 00:42:51.305 This is why, because I get to blame it on you. 918 00:42:51.605 --> 00:42:51.946 That's right. 919 00:42:52.006 --> 00:42:54.647 At the end of the day, and put it on, put it on Instagram and see what happens. 920 00:42:55.247 --> 00:42:55.427 Yeah. 921 00:42:55.447 --> 00:42:57.768 You're going to get divorced or she's going to punch you in the face. 922 00:42:57.928 --> 00:42:58.789 Yeah, probably both. 923 00:42:58.909 --> 00:43:02.531 But what's the difference when you go into your wife and saying, babe, I think you have a drinking problem. 924 00:43:02.551 --> 00:43:04.352 You need to quit today and quit for the rest of your life. 925 00:43:04.572 --> 00:43:08.734 It's, it's, if you just dumb it down, it's, 926 00:43:09.839 --> 00:43:14.367 And again, if we can get her there and she has that moment of clarity, it's going to work. 927 00:43:14.828 --> 00:43:16.370 But go back to my original point. 928 00:43:16.591 --> 00:43:18.814 It only works for a small amount of people. 929 00:43:19.255 --> 00:43:21.138 And so we have to close those gaps. 930 00:43:21.439 --> 00:43:23.202 That is the most important thing, in my opinion. 931 00:43:24.933 --> 00:43:29.555 What's the thing that people get most wrong about traditional treatments? 932 00:43:30.195 --> 00:43:34.577 Well, my big thing is that it's one size fits all. 933 00:43:34.898 --> 00:43:35.158 Okay. 934 00:43:35.238 --> 00:43:36.678 I mean, that's what everybody thinks. 935 00:43:36.718 --> 00:43:37.939 I mean, that's what I thought. 936 00:43:38.139 --> 00:43:39.480 I mean, I remember I was... 937 00:43:40.448 --> 00:43:43.229 I think I was 28 years. 938 00:43:43.329 --> 00:43:43.629 No. 939 00:43:44.410 --> 00:43:45.130 Yeah, 28. 940 00:43:45.390 --> 00:43:51.733 I was in California, was with my girlfriend at the time, and we met a guy and they said, oh, he's an alcoholic. 941 00:43:52.313 --> 00:43:55.014 And immediately I was like, what is wrong with this fucking guy? 942 00:43:55.034 --> 00:43:56.955 He like, and he had gone to treatment. 943 00:43:57.075 --> 00:43:59.857 And it's just that instant stigma that I had. 944 00:44:00.857 --> 00:44:02.498 Like this doesn't make any sense to me. 945 00:44:02.578 --> 00:44:04.960 And it's just stigma is stigma is real. 946 00:44:05.160 --> 00:44:06.361 It's absolutely real. 947 00:44:06.421 --> 00:44:14.327 And we need to stop bullshitting people that it's not because if you had a drinking problem and you were drinking and destroying your life, I'm a recovered alcoholic. 948 00:44:14.507 --> 00:44:16.809 The first thing I would think is what the fuck is wrong with you? 949 00:44:17.009 --> 00:44:17.229 Yeah. 950 00:44:17.509 --> 00:44:21.232 And if I feel that way as a recovered alcoholic, everyone else feels that way, too. 951 00:44:21.512 --> 00:44:21.732 Sure. 952 00:44:22.593 --> 00:44:23.433 OK, so how do you do it? 953 00:44:23.553 --> 00:44:24.154 Do it differently? 954 00:44:24.174 --> 00:44:24.334 Yeah. 955 00:44:24.555 --> 00:44:32.559 Well, quite frankly, U-Turn Health, which is the company we founded, the only reason we created it was to close those three gaps. 956 00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:33.359 That's all we do. 957 00:44:34.059 --> 00:44:35.220 So that's what you focus on. 958 00:44:35.260 --> 00:44:37.861 That's all we focus

on. 959 00:44:38.041 --> 00:44:43.484 I am not doing CBT therapy on you or CPT, whatever the hell it's called. 960 00:44:43.684 --> 00:44:45.345 I am not a rehab. 961 00:44:45.505 --> 00:44:46.905 I am not a therapist. 962 00:44:46.985 --> 00:44:47.606 None of us are. 963 00:44:48.581 --> 00:44:52.506 What the core of what we are is is peer support. 964 00:44:52.847 --> 00:44:54.889 So peer support, I'm sure you've heard about it. 965 00:44:55.390 --> 00:44:56.671 If maybe you haven't. 966 00:44:57.232 --> 00:45:06.303 Peer support is the art of taking a peer that looks like you, acts like you, is like you, that has struggled with the same thing you're struggling with. 967 00:45:06.844 --> 00:45:07.805 and putting you together. 968 00:45:08.065 --> 00:45:09.066 That's what peer support is. 969 00:45:09.126 --> 00:45:10.046 So I'll give you an example. 970 00:45:11.027 --> 00:45:15.330 I know this guy named Johnny Emmerman that started an organization called Emmerman's Angels. 971 00:45:15.430 --> 00:45:17.872 So Johnny had testicular cancer. 972 00:45:18.632 --> 00:45:19.353 He got better. 973 00:45:19.533 --> 00:45:20.874 Then it metastasized. 974 00:45:20.954 --> 00:45:23.295 And the second time, he was like, I have the best doctors. 975 00:45:23.776 --> 00:45:24.836 I have great friends. 976 00:45:25.877 --> 00:45:27.298 I have the greatest medicine. 977 00:45:27.338 --> 00:45:31.001 But what I don't have is me that has already gone through this. 978 00:45:31.141 --> 00:45:32.482 So he created Emmerman's Angels. 979 00:45:32.542 --> 00:45:34.183 So now if you get... 980 00:45:34.683 --> 00:45:56.731 lung cancer that's metastasized to your brain and you live in phoenix they will find someone that beat that that becomes your angel that will help you through that process what to expect when to push back when to fight what questions to ask that's what peer support is so the challenge that i had josh and my co-founder had this challenge way before me it's not seen as a professional service 981 00:45:57.567 --> 00:45:58.368 And I get it. 982 00:45:58.468 --> 00:45:59.748 You don't go to therapy school. 983 00:45:59.809 --> 00:46:01.450 You don't become a psychologist. 984 00:46:02.130 --> 00:46:03.511 It's lived experience. 985 00:46:04.071 --> 00:46:11.116 But the other thing is, is no one's ever really created a dedicated program and then gone out and researched and did it. 986 00:46:11.216 --> 00:46:12.377 Help me understand this. 987 00:46:12.497 --> 00:46:14.638 It's not considered a professional service. 988 00:46:14.818 --> 00:46:16.399 By who and why is that important? 989 00:46:16.580 --> 00:46:22.824 Mainly by the entire population, but more importantly, by the insurance companies. 990 00:46:23.584 --> 00:46:23.965 Got it. 991 00:46:24.666 --> 00:46:26.568 So like, it's not a clinical service. 992 00:46:26.588 --> 00:46:28.310 Therapy is a clinical service. 993 00:46:28.571 --> 00:46:30.293 So insurance will not pay for it. 994 00:46:30.573 --> 00:46:33.417 They will, but they pay for it ass backwards. 995 00:46:33.457 --> 00:46:36.981 They'll pay you to talk to somebody in 15 minute increments. 996 00:46:38.283 --> 00:46:40.346 And the rates are ridiculous. 997 00:46:40.686 --> 00:46:42.027 Now, it's not their fault. 998 00:46:42.267 --> 00:46:42.508 Sure. 999 00:46:42.628 --> 00:46:46.511 Again, no one ever created a dedicated program and studied it. 1000 00:46:47.132 --> 00:46:48.313 We've changed this now. 1001 00:46:48.433 --> 00:46:50.455 So my co-founder created a model. 1002 00:46:50.575 --> 00:46:53.598 It's a very specific model called assertive community engagement. 1003 00:46:53.618 --> 00:46:55.019 You don't need to know the technical term. 1004 00:46:55.059 --> 00:46:56.000 This is the secret. 1005 00:46:57.443 --> 00:46:59.644 So for 70 years, follow me on this. 1006 00:46:59.725 --> 00:47:01.165 This is how we treat this stuff. 1007 00:47:01.426 --> 00:47:03.847 Josh comes to me and says, Hamilton, I love your story. 1008 00:47:03.887 --> 00:47:04.648 I'm struggling. 1009 00:47:05.948 --> 00:47:06.449 I need help. 1010 00:47:06.969 --> 00:47:07.830 I drink too much. 1011 00:47:07.970 --> 00:47:09.531 My wife is pissed, whatever it is. 1012 00:47:09.791 --> 00:47:13.213 The traditional approach is I say, Josh, you're an addict, alcoholic. 1013 00:47:13.273 --> 00:47:13.793 I love you. 1014 00:47:13.834 --> 00:47:15.174 Doesn't matter how nice I say it. 1015 00:47:15.294 --> 00:47:16.515 And I give you all these options. 1016 00:47:16.555 --> 00:47:18.737 You can see a therapist, a counselor, this, that. 1017 00:47:19.697 --> 00:47:21.598 Um, you can go to a, you can go to NA. 1018 00:47:21.798 --> 00:47:22.738 I'm going to support you. 1019 00:47:22.778 --> 00:47:23.599 I'm going to love you. 1020 00:47:23.779 --> 00:47:24.559 I'm here to help. 1021 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:25.319 Here you go. 1022 00:47:25.339 --> 00:47:36.103 And I walk away and I'm going to support you, but I leave it up to you to determine if you're going to use the tools and stay engaged, who's responsible for whether or not you do the right thing. 1023 00:47:36.163 --> 00:47:36.764 It's you, right? 1024 00:47:37.344 --> 00:47:38.624 It's all your responsibility. 1025 00:47:38.784 --> 00:47:43.186 And, and the whole model says you have to be willing to do this. 1026 00:47:43.686 --> 00:47:45.887 So this is where I normally blow people's minds. 1027 00:47:46.147 --> 00:47:49.070 So I believe addiction is a brain disorder. 1028 00:47:49.550 --> 00:47:52.072 I don't like that word, but it's something in your brain. 1029 00:47:52.413 --> 00:47:53.814 But let's say you don't agree with that. 1030 00:47:53.894 --> 00:48:02.442 What you can't disagree with is anyone that's been diagnosed with either substance use disorder or mental illness has this side effect of the disease in their brain. 1031 00:48:02.762 --> 00:48:03.623 100% of people have it. 1032 00:48:03.663 --> 00:48:04.824 It's

called irrational thinking. 1033 00:48:06.236 --> 00:48:07.798 OK, so let's go back. 1034 00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:16.667 I go to the guy that has a substance use disorder, which is the disease that the side effect, it causes him to think irrationally. 1035 00:48:17.168 --> 00:48:23.815 And then I say to him, I want you to rationally have a moment of clarity and decide to use these tools and stay adherent. 1036 00:48:24.355 --> 00:48:27.036 Could be the dumbest fucking thing we've ever done in our life. 1037 00:48:27.636 --> 00:48:33.859 So think about me going to Christopher Reeve when he was a quadriplegic and saying, hey, buddy, if you could just get up and walk 10 steps, you're going to be cured. 1038 00:48:34.299 --> 00:48:34.979 It's impossible. 1039 00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.100 That's why the adherence rates suck. 1040 00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:39.101 So our model is very different. 1041 00:48:39.201 --> 00:48:44.643 I'm going to give Josh another Josh, another dude that looks like him, acts like him, same profession. 1042 00:48:44.723 --> 00:48:50.305 If you're a veteran, I'm going to give you a veteran that has struggled with the same thing you struggled with and overcome. 1043 00:48:50.865 --> 00:48:51.806 And the secret is... 1044 00:48:52.466 --> 00:48:53.767 I'm going to flip the paradigm. 1045 00:48:53.907 --> 00:49:02.853 So instead of counting on you to be responsible and rational and use all the tools, that responsibility falls equal on your coach. 1046 00:49:04.033 --> 00:49:17.304 So when you don't show up to your meeting, when you don't go to the therapist like you said you were going to do, when you commit to doing yoga five times a week and you don't do it, instead of blaming you and saying, Josh, why the fuck aren't you doing what you told me you're going to do? 1047 00:49:17.324 --> 00:49:23.729 Our coach has to figure out how to engage you, how to keep you engaged and how to keep you moving forward. 1048 00:49:24.149 --> 00:49:24.790 It's really... 1049 00:49:25.510 --> 00:49:26.231 It's so simple. 1050 00:49:26.291 --> 00:49:26.912 It's stupid. 1051 00:49:27.272 --> 00:49:27.692 Yeah. 1052 00:49:28.153 --> 00:49:29.634 It's I'm not going to let you fail. 1053 00:49:29.714 --> 00:49:34.359 And when you relapse, instead of kicking you out of the program, I'm going to throw my arm around. 1054 00:49:34.399 --> 00:49:35.800 I'm going to go, dude, you're a fucking idiot. 1055 00:49:35.861 --> 00:49:36.521 Why'd you do that? 1056 00:49:36.641 --> 00:49:37.222 But it's cool. 1057 00:49:37.462 --> 00:49:38.203 I don't give a shit. 1058 00:49:38.263 --> 00:49:40.185 Let's get back on the horse and keep going again. 1059 00:49:40.485 --> 00:49:40.866 Yeah. 1060 00:49:40.926 --> 00:49:47.712 Like we were talking about before the show, the best thing that comes to mind is that you're fighting from the same corner that they're in. 1061 00:49:49.249 --> 00:49:58.081 And I think that's a really – it's simple, but it's also profound when you compare it against how the traditional methods are done. 1062 00:49:58.822 --> 00:50:01.286 Where do you find these coaches? 1063 00:50:01.466 --> 00:50:03.969 I mean, are these all people just wanting to help? 1064 00:50:03.989 --> 00:50:04.470 Yeah. 1065 00:50:04.630 --> 00:50:07.593 A lot of it is people wanting to help, but now we've created careers. 1066 00:50:07.653 --> 00:50:10.155 I mean, they're all full-time employees of our company. 1067 00:50:10.275 --> 00:50:16.761 Rich and I always say our secret power is we know a lot of fuck-ups that used to be drug addicts and alcoholic that have gotten their shit together. 1068 00:50:16.901 --> 00:50:18.382 You can turn that into a superpower. 1069 00:50:18.402 --> 00:50:19.824 I hope everyone's listening. 1070 00:50:19.864 --> 00:50:21.245 You can turn anything into a superpower. 1071 00:50:21.285 --> 00:50:21.745 Absolutely. 1072 00:50:22.866 --> 00:50:28.389 The other cool thing about it is, is we not only have individual coaches like me, we have family coaches. 1073 00:50:28.749 --> 00:50:37.193 So now that guy whose kid is struggling with addiction and he's never going to talk to anyone, I'm going to give him another dad that had a kid that struggled. 1074 00:50:37.754 --> 00:50:38.774 I'll give you a great story. 1075 00:50:38.834 --> 00:50:41.175 My COO is a lady named Julie Smith. 1076 00:50:41.215 --> 00:50:43.717 She's a clinical social worker by training, which is a therapist. 1077 00:50:43.737 --> 00:50:44.317 She's awesome. 1078 00:50:46.420 --> 00:50:47.682 She knows how to do therapy. 1079 00:50:47.722 --> 00:50:48.804 She's been to therapy. 1080 00:50:48.824 --> 00:50:49.345 She's great. 1081 00:50:49.605 --> 00:50:50.447 She has five kids. 1082 00:50:50.527 --> 00:50:51.849 One of her kids started struggling. 1083 00:50:53.075 --> 00:50:55.197 all of her friends were like, well, you're a therapist. 1084 00:50:55.237 --> 00:50:56.078 Just go to therapy. 1085 00:50:56.258 --> 00:51:01.582 And she's like, I already know what, I know what to say to myself and I know what a therapist is going to say to me. 1086 00:51:01.742 --> 00:51:02.483 I don't need that. 1087 00:51:03.023 --> 00:51:16.374 I need to talk to another mom that knows what it's like to be looking at their phone on live 360 or whatever it is at two in the morning, figuring out where my kid is and what the fuck she did about it to get herself better. 1088 00:51:17.235 --> 00:51:18.896 That's the beauty of this program. 1089 00:51:19.156 --> 00:51:19.737 So, yeah, 1090 00:51:20.317 --> 00:51:21.498 Now, let's go back. 1091 00:51:21.858 --> 00:51:23.920 You come to me, Hamilton, I'm struggling. 1092 00:51:24.901 --> 00:51:26.402 My wife is pissed off at me. 1093 00:51:26.422 --> 00:51:29.084 I can't go to treatment, dude. 1094 00:51:29.104 --> 00:51:30.205 I can't leave my job. 1095 00:51:30.385 --> 00:51:32.266 And I'll be really honest with you, Hamilton. 1096 00:51:32.767 --> 00:51:34.488 I don't even know if I

want to quit drinking. 1097 00:51:35.489 --> 00:51:39.592 Our response to that is going to be like, well, first of all, no one fucking told you you had to go to treatment. 1098 00:51:39.632 --> 00:51:41.993 And second of all, no one told you you had to quit drinking. 1099 00:51:42.434 --> 00:51:43.375 Would you talk to me then? 1100 00:51:43.395 --> 00:51:43.895 Yeah. 1101 00:51:44.365 --> 00:51:46.446 Of course, of course. 1102 00:51:46.786 --> 00:51:52.069 Now, we're gonna play around, we're gonna work together and there's very scientific ways we do this. 1103 00:51:52.169 --> 00:51:55.250 It's called motivational interviewing and positive psychology. 1104 00:51:55.890 --> 00:51:57.431 I'm gonna get you engaged. 1105 00:51:57.811 --> 00:52:01.033 I don't care if you wanna talk about alcohol, we'll talk about whatever you wanna talk about. 1106 00:52:01.873 --> 00:52:15.901 I will get you to treatment if you need treatment, but we're going to do it together and see now when you go to treatment, now you've bought into this is what I need because you had a hand in the process instead of me going to your wife and saying, you're looking a little fat. 1107 00:52:15.941 --> 00:52:16.882 You need to go to the gym. 1108 00:52:17.562 --> 00:52:18.203 See the difference? 1109 00:52:18.263 --> 00:52:18.663 Yeah. 1110 00:52:19.023 --> 00:52:24.106 It's somebody told me this the other day, this kid that I met and I was like blown away. 1111 00:52:24.146 --> 00:52:27.308 He goes, you've figured out how to monetize human connection. 1112 00:52:28.329 --> 00:52:30.290 And that's really what we're doing where it's, 1113 00:52:32.085 --> 00:52:36.327 And I know I'm going on a tangent here, but I got to tell you something really interesting that plays into this. 1114 00:52:36.407 --> 00:52:39.029 Have you ever heard about the rat study when it comes to addiction? 1115 00:52:39.229 --> 00:52:39.409 Yeah. 1116 00:52:39.429 --> 00:52:42.410 Well, wait, no, I've heard a couple of different rat studies. 1117 00:52:42.570 --> 00:52:43.731 Which one are you talking about? 1118 00:52:43.751 --> 00:52:47.553 So years and years ago, some psychologist said, I'm going to do a study on addiction. 1119 00:52:47.673 --> 00:52:48.693 He took 100 rats. 1120 00:52:48.994 --> 00:52:54.656 He put each rat in its own cage with a bottle of water and a bottle of cocaine water. 1121 00:52:54.676 --> 00:52:57.398 OK, what do you think the outcome was? 1122 00:52:59.763 --> 00:53:01.544 What kind of outcome? 1123 00:53:01.604 --> 00:53:03.846 The rats with the cocaine water wanted more water. 1124 00:53:03.866 --> 00:53:04.226 No, no, no. 1125 00:53:04.246 --> 00:53:05.227 They had both in their cage. 1126 00:53:05.247 --> 00:53:05.927 Oh, they had both in their cage. 1127 00:53:05.947 --> 00:53:06.468 So what do you think? 1128 00:53:06.488 --> 00:53:07.568 Which one do you think they drank? 1129 00:53:07.708 --> 00:53:08.269 The cocaine water. 1130 00:53:08.369 --> 00:53:10.430 Everyone

drank the cocaine water until they died. 1131 00:53:10.610 --> 00:53:11.131 Every one of them. 1132 00:53:11.151 --> 00:53:11.311 Yeah. 1133 00:53:12.503 --> 00:53:16.646 And to be quite honest, I don't know what the fuck he was trying to prove, but that was the study. 1134 00:53:17.046 --> 00:53:21.069 So about 20 years later, another psychologist came on and said, we need to do a different study. 1135 00:53:21.109 --> 00:53:22.570 So he had a big cage. 1136 00:53:23.471 --> 00:53:31.777 He put all the rats in the same cage, but he put cheese wheel cheese and wheels for them to run on and all kinds of things for them to do. 1137 00:53:32.297 --> 00:53:34.299 And he put the cocaine water in the regular water. 1138 00:53:35.079 --> 00:53:37.541 No rat drank the cocaine water. 1139 00:53:38.302 --> 00:53:39.403 They all drank the regular water. 1140 00:53:40.307 --> 00:53:43.592 I mean, they dabbled in it, but they didn't get addicted to the cocaine water. 1141 00:53:44.012 --> 00:53:46.196 The opposite of addiction is actually community. 1142 00:53:46.937 --> 00:53:47.618 That proves that. 1143 00:53:48.814 --> 00:53:49.494 Interesting. 1144 00:53:49.614 --> 00:53:50.234 Yeah. 1145 00:53:50.594 --> 00:53:52.235 That's why isolation is so bad. 1146 00:53:52.595 --> 00:53:58.336 I'm sitting here listening to you, and just a few weeks ago, I interviewed Dr. Robert Cialdini. 1147 00:53:58.356 --> 00:53:59.937 Do you know who he is if you read that book? 1148 00:54:00.537 --> 00:54:10.179 So that book right there is Influence the Psychology of Persuasion, and he's got four fundamental pillars that he uses, and he's renowned for this work. 1149 00:54:10.660 --> 00:54:12.000 And I'm listening to you talk. 1150 00:54:12.860 --> 00:54:21.968 And I'm seeing now and I'm connecting these dots with the same principle because he's very steadfast in that there's a moral responsibility here. 1151 00:54:22.408 --> 00:54:24.910 You know, it's not just influencing people to manipulate them. 1152 00:54:24.950 --> 00:54:26.471 It's influencing people to help them. 1153 00:54:28.866 --> 00:54:37.209 And the strategies that you're talking about in these contexts, like you just mentioned community and, you know, and meeting people where they are. 1154 00:54:37.229 --> 00:54:37.309 Yep. 1155 00:54:37.710 --> 00:54:40.691 And essentially what you're saying is be likable, right? 1156 00:54:40.711 --> 00:54:41.291 Get along. 1157 00:54:41.391 --> 00:54:46.353 I mean, this is, these are all kind of woven into some of the strategies that you presented to me. 1158 00:54:46.933 --> 00:54:52.996 And it falls dangerously close to, you know, Dr. Robert Cialdini's work, right? 1159 00:54:54.037 --> 00:54:57.640 in the psychology of influence and persuasion. 1160 00:54:57.820 --> 00:54:59.401 It is 100% what it is. 1161 00:54:59.481 --> 00:55:01.583 Yeah, that's really interesting. 1162 00:55:01.984 --> 00:55:05.567 I mean, I didn't want to get sober also because I didn't think I'd be cool. 1163 00:55:06.488 --> 00:55:08.510 I thought I would lose the mojo. 1164 00:55:08.970 --> 00:55:10.972 I thought I wouldn't be accepted anymore. 1165 00:55:10.992 --> 00:55:11.752 But now... 1166 00:55:13.983 --> 00:55:18.606 When you see someone like me, I'm crazier than I was when I was drinking. 1167 00:55:18.906 --> 00:55:19.186 I am. 1168 00:55:19.326 --> 00:55:22.068 I mean, you've seen my social media bullshit that my daughter does. 1169 00:55:22.529 --> 00:55:22.969 I don't. 1170 00:55:23.609 --> 00:55:24.570 I'm very colorful. 1171 00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:25.210 I'm this and that. 1172 00:55:25.230 --> 00:55:30.214 When you see somebody like me or like you that doesn't drink anymore, you're like, wow, that guy's got his shit together. 1173 00:55:30.234 --> 00:55:31.034 He's in great shape. 1174 00:55:31.074 --> 00:55:32.875 He still looks like he's having a lot of fucking fun. 1175 00:55:32.915 --> 00:55:35.037 It's like, oh, wow, that's interesting. 1176 00:55:35.057 --> 00:55:39.600 It takes the scariness out of it, at least to a certain degree. 1177 00:55:40.815 --> 00:55:41.155 Yeah. 1178 00:55:41.616 --> 00:55:42.256 Okay. 1179 00:55:42.496 --> 00:55:46.098 So meeting people where they are, that's a gap that you closed. 1180 00:55:46.779 --> 00:55:49.020 You mentioned family in the traditional gaps. 1181 00:55:49.040 --> 00:55:52.342 How do you bridge that with what you do? 1182 00:55:52.362 --> 00:55:53.963 Do you engage the family? 1183 00:55:54.023 --> 00:55:55.264 Do you— A hundred percent. 1184 00:55:55.344 --> 00:55:55.644 Okay. 1185 00:55:57.665 --> 00:55:59.208 So we sell this to employers. 1186 00:55:59.428 --> 00:56:05.597 So if there's any employer out there, like your addiction is rising your health care costs. 1187 00:56:06.018 --> 00:56:10.105 I mean, look, quite frankly, from the time I was 23 and 22 until 42, I'm going to be 1188 00:56:13.312 --> 00:56:14.533 I worked for big companies. 1189 00:56:14.733 --> 00:56:16.034 I had great health insurance. 1190 00:56:16.214 --> 00:56:17.916 I saw a therapist every month. 1191 00:56:18.636 --> 00:56:20.377 I saw a psychiatrist every week. 1192 00:56:20.818 --> 00:56:24.200 I know backwards, saw a therapist every week, psychiatrist every month. 1193 00:56:24.260 --> 00:56:27.263 I was on tons of medication for anti-anxiety and depression. 1194 00:56:28.123 --> 00:56:34.088 I mean, I had mental health issues because I was always trying to control that crazy brain that was going. 1195 00:56:34.548 --> 00:56:36.029 And I was using drugs and alcohol. 1196 00:56:36.049 --> 00:56:39.972 I went to the doctor all the time because I wasn't healthy because I was putting poison in my body. 1197 00:56:40.112 --> 00:56:42.394 All of those claims were going through my healthcare company. 1198 00:56:42.814 --> 00:56:43.596 And my employer. 1199 00:56:44.216 --> 00:56:45.358 So you have these people. 1200 00:56:46.059 --> 00:56:50.426 Most people that enroll into U-Turn Health is

either one or two things. 1201 00:56:51.547 --> 00:56:55.894 One is the family that they have no one to talk to, so they enroll. 1202 00:56:55.954 --> 00:56:56.915 The second is stress. 1203 00:56:58.035 --> 00:56:58.636 Why is that? 1204 00:56:58.836 --> 00:56:59.937 It's really easy. 1205 00:57:00.757 --> 00:57:02.479 We all wear stress as a badge of honor. 1206 00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.240 Yes, we do. 1207 00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:07.844 We talk about I'm stressed out of my mind and it's like you're a badass because you're stressed. 1208 00:57:07.884 --> 00:57:08.744 We'll talk about that. 1209 00:57:09.165 --> 00:57:18.733 We won't tell you that our daughter has an addiction problem, which is why I'm stressed, or the fact that I'm actually doing crystal meth, which is why I'm so stressed out. 1210 00:57:18.753 --> 00:57:19.694 We won't talk about that. 1211 00:57:19.894 --> 00:57:20.254 Yeah. 1212 00:57:20.334 --> 00:57:20.494 Yeah. 1213 00:57:20.514 --> 00:57:22.735 Because the response is, you know, Hey, how are you doing? 1214 00:57:22.835 --> 00:57:23.695 Oh man, I'm doing all right. 1215 00:57:23.715 --> 00:57:24.755 But a little bit stressed. 1216 00:57:24.775 --> 00:57:28.516 The response is never, I'm doing all right, but you know, I'm, I'm doing meth. 1217 00:57:28.876 --> 00:57:29.336 Yeah, that's right. 1218 00:57:29.816 --> 00:57:30.016 Never. 1219 00:57:30.316 --> 00:57:32.597 You want me to tell you the greatest story ever about this company? 1220 00:57:33.417 --> 00:57:36.637 This one, I'm going to warn you, the hair on your arms is going to stand up. 1221 00:57:36.717 --> 00:57:43.579 So we have a Fortune 500 company we work with and we're very smart, manipulative, influencing about people. 1222 00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:43.919 So we, 1223 00:57:44.059 --> 00:57:50.142 We're never going to do a webinar for one of those companies who drinks 18 beers a night are still grandma's Percocet. 1224 00:57:50.242 --> 00:57:51.042 No one will show up. 1225 00:57:52.123 --> 00:57:54.804 I would show up because I think it would be hilarious, but no one will show up. 1226 00:57:54.944 --> 00:57:58.046 So we did a webinar on who's stressed out at work and at home. 1227 00:57:58.626 --> 00:57:59.686 Everybody comes to the meeting. 1228 00:58:00.207 --> 00:58:04.389 The CFO of that company, after the thing, signed up for a coach. 1229 00:58:05.009 --> 00:58:05.989 She said she was stressed. 1230 00:58:06.590 --> 00:58:07.690 Okay, this is the beauty. 1231 00:58:08.431 --> 00:58:13.133 Five minute, we get her with a coach who's another 50-year-old mom, family, blah, blah, blah. 1232 00:58:14.256 --> 00:58:15.616 We didn't know why she was stressed. 1233 00:58:16.357 --> 00:58:19.817 Five minutes into the conversation, this is where the trust comes in. 1234 00:58:19.858 --> 00:58:20.858 These ladies are alike. 1235 00:58:20.918 --> 00:58:21.798 They've all dealt with it. 1236 00:58:21.838 --> 00:58:24.919 She looks at her coach and says, do you want

to know why I'm stressed? 1237 00:58:25.079 --> 00:58:26.399 Well, the coach is like, of course. 1238 00:58:27.159 --> 00:58:38.943 She goes, I have an 18-year-old daughter who went to treatment for fentanyl addiction, and she just left against medical advice, and she's living on the streets of Cleveland, Ohio. 1239 00:58:40.003 --> 00:58:40.283 Okay. 1240 00:58:41.630 --> 00:58:43.331 That mom has every right to be stressed. 1241 00:58:43.551 --> 00:58:44.992 She doesn't have a clinical issue. 1242 00:58:45.052 --> 00:58:48.895 A clinician is going to have to diagnose her with something. 1243 00:58:49.375 --> 00:58:50.456 There's nothing to diagnose. 1244 00:58:50.596 --> 00:58:53.518 She is stressed out from a very abnormal situation. 1245 00:58:53.578 --> 00:58:55.219 So our coach starts working with her. 1246 00:58:55.279 --> 00:58:56.820 We have a whole stress program. 1247 00:58:57.341 --> 00:59:00.303 But the coach said, can we have someone reach out to your daughter? 1248 00:59:00.743 --> 00:59:01.544 And she said, sure. 1249 00:59:02.024 --> 00:59:04.606 Well, first of all, I don't even need that mom's permission. 1250 00:59:04.706 --> 00:59:08.188 The way we built this is we are a non-clinical platform. 1251 00:59:08.268 --> 00:59:09.449 So I don't need your permission. 1252 00:59:10.330 --> 00:59:10.830 Oh, OK. 1253 00:59:10.850 --> 00:59:15.774 So not the benefits of the of the the clinic side of things, but also not the restrictions. 1254 00:59:15.974 --> 00:59:16.774 That's exactly right. 1255 00:59:17.035 --> 00:59:22.138 So then we have a 22 year old female coach that used to be addicted to fentanyl who's in recovery. 1256 00:59:22.299 --> 00:59:24.180 She called the mom gave her a number. 1257 00:59:24.240 --> 00:59:31.505 She calls the 18 year old completely unannounced, said, hey, your mom gave me your number, started talking to her, did what we do. 1258 00:59:32.366 --> 00:59:33.307 Now, this is amazing. 1259 00:59:33.347 --> 00:59:38.713 The 18 year old was receptive to the conversation, but she was very honest and said, look, I do. 1260 00:59:38.993 --> 00:59:39.954 I'm not ready to quit. 1261 00:59:40.234 --> 00:59:40.795 I'm just not. 1262 00:59:40.955 --> 00:59:42.176 But I appreciate you calling me. 1263 00:59:42.837 --> 00:59:44.058 So our coaches are smart. 1264 00:59:44.578 --> 00:59:46.881 The most important thing is keep that girl engaged. 1265 00:59:47.021 --> 00:59:48.663 So we go, all right, here's what we're going to do. 1266 00:59:49.163 --> 00:59:50.824 Will you at least do me a favor? 1267 00:59:50.924 --> 00:59:54.126 I don't care if you keep using drugs, which, by the way, guys, that's not true. 1268 00:59:54.186 --> 00:59:55.007 But you say that. 1269 00:59:55.747 --> 00:59:56.948 And she goes, show. 1270 00:59:57.088 --> 00:59:58.089 Give me your location. 1271 00:59:58.149 --> 00:59:58.809 So she did. 1272 00:59:58.849 --> 01:00:00.530 She found a Walgreens right around the corner. 1273 01:00:00.550 -->

01:00:01.931 She goes, I'm going to Venmo you money. 1274 01:00:01.951 --> 01:00:05.534 I want you to go in and I want you to get Narcan, which you can get for free. 1275 01:00:05.574 --> 01:00:06.514 Now, do you know what Narcan is? 1276 01:00:06.554 --> 01:00:06.714 No. 1277 01:00:07.135 --> 01:00:10.277 Narcan is if you overdose, you you snort. 1278 01:00:10.317 --> 01:00:11.678 That's what they save people with. 1279 01:00:11.698 --> 01:00:14.760 When you overdose, they shoot it up your nose and it brings you back to life. 1280 01:00:15.200 --> 01:00:15.380 OK, OK. 1281 01:00:15.600 --> 01:00:18.702 So now if that kid overdoses, she's going to be able to be saved. 1282 01:00:18.782 --> 01:00:21.144 And she said, I also want you to buy testing strips. 1283 01:00:21.784 --> 01:00:22.885 So you probably don't know this. 1284 01:00:23.045 --> 01:00:28.288 Now, if you and I are going to go to a rave and do ecstasy, I would say, let's go to Walgreens, get a testing kit. 1285 01:00:28.328 --> 01:00:32.070 We will test that drug to make sure there's not fentanyl in it and we won't overdose. 1286 01:00:33.351 --> 01:00:34.072 The girl agrees. 1287 01:00:35.138 --> 01:00:36.919 So now think about this. 1288 01:00:37.439 --> 01:00:41.901 If the traditional approach, the traditional approach, we wouldn't have reached out to the girl because we couldn't. 1289 01:00:42.402 --> 01:00:48.745 The traditional approach, when she said she still was going to do drugs, we would be very sweet and say, well, when you're ready, come back and see me. 1290 01:00:49.245 --> 01:00:50.626 So now we have this girl. 1291 01:00:50.686 --> 01:00:52.767 She's still going to do drugs, but we have her safe. 1292 01:00:52.847 --> 01:00:54.688 She's going to live if she overdoses. 1293 01:00:55.008 --> 01:00:58.169 And we're going to make sure she doesn't overdose because she's going to test her drugs. 1294 01:00:58.669 --> 01:00:59.230 She agrees. 1295 01:00:59.990 --> 01:01:01.810 Now, text the family coach. 1296 01:01:02.130 --> 01:01:04.851 She goes back to the mom and says, we got your kid. 1297 01:01:05.131 --> 01:01:05.811 She's safe. 1298 01:01:06.371 --> 01:01:08.672 It's not perfect, but she's not going to die. 1299 01:01:08.812 --> 01:01:10.452 So the mom starts to relieve her stress. 1300 01:01:10.472 --> 01:01:12.252 So this is the beauty of U-Turn Health. 1301 01:01:12.973 --> 01:01:15.233 Our coach kept her on the phone and said, what do you like to do? 1302 01:01:15.273 --> 01:01:17.013 And she goes, well, I want to be a makeup artist. 1303 01:01:17.053 --> 01:01:18.174 I really like doing makeup. 1304 01:01:18.214 --> 01:01:20.394 So our coach lied and said, I love makeup, too. 1305 01:01:20.454 --> 01:01:21.614 Will you teach me tips? 1306 01:01:22.094 --> 01:01:22.695 She goes, sure. 1307 01:01:23.075 --> 01:01:26.715 She goes, all right, why don't we set up a Zoom call twice a week and you can show me makeup? 1308 01:01:26.735 --> 01:01:27.816 We'll do makeup together. 1309 01:01:28.476 --> 01:01:29.176 The girl's like, sure. 1310 01:01:30.130 --> 01:01:32.912 Remember, our job is to keep her engaged. 1311 01:01:33.432 --> 01:01:34.633 So this happens all the time. 1312 01:01:34.653 --> 01:01:35.694 This is fascinating. 1313 01:01:35.734 --> 01:01:37.695 So they're doing this weeks at a time. 1314 01:01:37.755 --> 01:01:39.116 And they get to the third week. 1315 01:01:39.756 --> 01:01:43.218 And finally, the girl, the 18-year-old, put the brush down. 1316 01:01:43.318 --> 01:01:45.900 And she looked at our coach and said, how are you sober? 1317 01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:46.941 You're way too cool. 1318 01:01:47.821 --> 01:01:49.943 She brought the conversation back to addiction. 1319 01:01:50.063 --> 01:01:52.924 And she also admitted and said, let me tell you what happened. 1320 01:01:53.365 --> 01:01:58.268 When I was 17, a therapist told my mom if I didn't agree to get sober, to kick me out of the house. 1321 01:01:59.830 --> 01:02:00.791 So we called the mom. 1322 01:02:01.171 --> 01:02:05.093 We got the mom and the daughter on a Zoom call with both the family coach and her coach. 1323 01:02:05.514 --> 01:02:07.675 The mom agreed to let her move back into the house. 1324 01:02:07.735 --> 01:02:11.938 Within 30 days, we had that kid in treatment, and she's been sober for the last two years. 1325 01:02:12.618 --> 01:02:13.999 That's how U-Turn Health works. 1326 01:02:14.639 --> 01:02:15.820 That's not always perfect. 1327 01:02:16.441 --> 01:02:22.665 It doesn't always happen that way, but that is the greatest fucking story because there's a really good chance that kid would be dead. 1328 01:02:23.570 --> 01:02:31.356 What's coming up for me is a big difference between U-turn and traditional is do whatever it takes. 1329 01:02:31.917 --> 01:02:32.477 Whatever it takes. 1330 01:02:32.517 --> 01:02:40.704 Do whatever it takes, which I'd love to say and I'd love to think that traditional intervention would have that mindset, but they don't. 1331 01:02:40.884 --> 01:02:41.825 They're getting better. 1332 01:02:41.985 --> 01:02:44.487 And again, I've got to keep saying this. 1333 01:02:44.968 --> 01:02:50.413 I don't want anyone on this podcast to think, like, I got sober through the 12-step program. 1334 01:02:50.653 --> 01:02:52.555 I got sober through traditional treatment. 1335 01:02:52.675 --> 01:02:53.195 It works. 1336 01:02:53.375 --> 01:02:53.896 I love it. 1337 01:02:53.976 --> 01:02:54.817 They do great work. 1338 01:02:54.937 --> 01:02:57.539 And they are trying to more incorporate this in. 1339 01:02:58.640 --> 01:03:07.428 But I will throw them under the bus a little bit and tell you, and I'm not going to say who they are, but when we first started this company, our first customers were treatment centers. 1340 01:03:09.406 --> 01:03:10.667 So let me explain how it works. 1341 01:03:11.528 --> 01:03:14.170 You decided to go to an inpatient treatment. 1342 01:03:14.330 --> 01:03:17.533 The

day you stepped foot in, we reached out to your family. 1343 01:03:17.733 --> 01:03:18.874 So think about my story. 1344 01:03:18.954 --> 01:03:24.759 When I stepped into treatment, another wife would have reached out to my wife and listened to her. 1345 01:03:24.959 --> 01:03:27.021 And my wife would have ripped me apart. 1346 01:03:27.101 --> 01:03:28.102 He's an asshole. 1347 01:03:28.542 --> 01:03:29.503 He won't stop drinking. 1348 01:03:29.523 --> 01:03:30.504 They would have just listened. 1349 01:03:30.624 --> 01:03:31.425 I'm there for you. 1350 01:03:31.485 --> 01:03:32.966 You can't talk to him for 12 weeks. 1351 01:03:33.306 --> 01:03:36.049 But then they would have already also started educating her. 1352 01:03:36.409 --> 01:03:38.311 Let me tell you about the neurobiology of addiction. 1353 01:03:38.511 --> 01:03:40.212 What you want, he can't do. 1354 01:03:40.252 --> 01:03:41.233 You got to understand that. 1355 01:03:41.273 --> 01:03:44.316 So when I got out, she would have been ready for me. 1356 01:03:44.956 --> 01:03:49.600 The day I get out of treatment, six weeks later, I am met with another Hamilton. 1357 01:03:49.680 --> 01:03:51.422 So Hamilton gets another Hamilton. 1358 01:03:51.602 --> 01:03:55.145 We would stay with both Hamilton and his family for six months. 1359 01:03:56.186 --> 01:04:00.749 Okay, we did this for three of the largest treatment centers in this country. 1360 01:04:01.370 --> 01:04:03.372 A year later, they all three fired us. 1361 01:04:04.533 --> 01:04:05.393 Why do you think they did? 1362 01:04:05.533 --> 01:04:06.694 They started doing it themselves. 1363 01:04:07.074 --> 01:04:08.455 No, that's a really good answer. 1364 01:04:09.735 --> 01:04:12.677 They had less people coming back to treatment. 1365 01:04:14.418 --> 01:04:15.818 I wish it was the first answer. 1366 01:04:15.878 --> 01:04:17.019 I wish it was the first two. 1367 01:04:17.359 --> 01:04:19.180 Well, I would have still pissed me off, but that's okay. 1368 01:04:19.740 --> 01:04:23.782 But no, their model is, and it's not their fault. 1369 01:04:24.002 --> 01:04:25.483 It's the model that we've created. 1370 01:04:25.503 --> 01:04:28.304 This is the way we've always done it. 1371 01:04:28.444 --> 01:04:32.186 60% of people relapse and they need treatment again, so we need to get them back into treatment. 1372 01:04:32.266 --> 01:04:33.307 Instead of thinking... 1373 01:04:33.987 --> 01:04:37.029 Well, they're getting less people coming back to treatment, which is a good thing. 1374 01:04:37.069 --> 01:04:38.731 It becomes the money situation. 1375 01:04:38.771 --> 01:04:41.573 Now, that's very easily solved by the payers. 1376 01:04:41.993 --> 01:04:43.314 It's called value-based care. 1377 01:04:43.394 --> 01:04:49.939 So if I go to this treatment center and I stay sober for a year, that treatment center gets $50,000 instead of $25,000. 1378 01:04:50.600 --> 01:04:54.743 If I have to go back to treatment twice, now they get $20,000 every time. 1379 01:04:54.763 --> 01:04:55.583 Do you see what I'm saying? 1380 01:04:55.903 --> 01:04:58.105 It's just make the incentive. 1381 01:04:58.205 --> 01:05:01.968 The healthier I get people and the less they need you, the more money you make. 1382 01:05:02.068 --> 01:05:03.089 And that solves the issue. 1383 01:05:05.451 --> 01:05:06.071 fascinating. 1384 01:05:06.191 --> 01:05:07.152 It is crazy, right? 1385 01:05:07.252 --> 01:05:13.374 And are you pioneering this or was this a model before you entered the space? 1386 01:05:13.654 --> 01:05:14.474 Like, yeah. 1387 01:05:14.494 --> 01:05:21.077 So my co-founder, Rich Jones was a clinical psychologist who had been sober for 20 years from opioid addiction. 1388 01:05:21.097 --> 01:05:26.199 And he started working in the real traditional space and he was doing more work in the mental health side. 1389 01:05:26.919 --> 01:05:30.340 And there is a model for severe and persistent mental illness. 1390 01:05:30.400 --> 01:05:32.461 It's called assertive, um, 1391 01:05:33.181 --> 01:05:35.022 It's ACT, assertive community treatment. 1392 01:05:35.162 --> 01:05:40.706 And it's this model that if you're really, really sick from mental illness, we're not going to let you fail. 1393 01:05:41.126 --> 01:05:42.567 And so we started doing that work. 1394 01:05:42.607 --> 01:05:46.649 He was working up in Pennsylvania for a hospital system through Pennsylvania Medicaid. 1395 01:05:47.310 --> 01:05:50.652 And he asked his bosses, he said, hey, I'm an addict at heart. 1396 01:05:50.732 --> 01:05:51.772 I've done this for two years. 1397 01:05:51.832 --> 01:05:54.094 I love the work, but can I work on the addiction side? 1398 01:05:54.114 --> 01:05:54.934 They said, sure. 1399 01:05:55.395 --> 01:05:57.316 So he started trying to do the same thing. 1400 01:05:57.796 --> 01:06:01.462 And they literally had to pull him out and say, you can't, you're not allowed to do that for addicts. 1401 01:06:01.822 --> 01:06:02.944 It's a moral failure. 1402 01:06:03.024 --> 01:06:04.105 They did it to themselves. 1403 01:06:04.186 --> 01:06:07.510 But Josh, really, the issue was you couldn't, they couldn't get paid for it. 1404 01:06:07.651 --> 01:06:08.372 No one would pay him. 1405 01:06:08.572 --> 01:06:08.772 Sure. 1406 01:06:09.213 --> 01:06:10.134 So Ritz said... 1407 01:06:11.130 --> 01:06:12.011 Well, this sucks. 1408 01:06:12.532 --> 01:06:16.596 He created a nonprofit in South Carolina called Faces and Voices of Recovery. 1409 01:06:16.716 --> 01:06:19.199 And he created that model I told you about, Ace. 1410 01:06:19.539 --> 01:06:20.520 So that's how it started. 1411 01:06:20.921 --> 01:06:24.245 And Rich was doing phenomenal work in the state of South Carolina. 1412 01:06:24.285 --> 01:06:27.228 But nonprofits are only as big as the region you're in. 1413 01:06:27.528 --> 01:06:28.569 And I met him. 1414 01:06:29.390 --> 01:06:31.631 And we both I was working for another company at the time.

1415 01:06:31.671 --> 01:06:35.754 And we said, look, we should be able to commercialize this and get it to more people. 1416 01:06:36.374 --> 01:06:37.915 So we brought in technology. 1417 01:06:38.355 --> 01:06:46.519 We brought in the model and we created U-Turn Health about four and a half years ago and said, look, 75 percent of people that struggle with addiction have what? 1418 01:06:46.700 --> 01:06:47.060 Jobs. 1419 01:06:47.600 --> 01:06:51.922 I mean, there are homeless people on the street struggling with this, but most people go to work. 1420 01:06:52.583 --> 01:06:58.405 And so the idea is, is how do you go to the employers and save them money by treating this earlier? 1421 01:06:58.646 --> 01:07:02.648 And ultimately, we'll get the payers on our side, which is what we've done. 1422 01:07:02.708 --> 01:07:14.373 We now, about eight months ago, we signed a contract with one of the largest payers in this country that got what we're doing and said, we want to pay you for doing that. 1423 01:07:14.654 --> 01:07:14.914 Hmm. 1424 01:07:15.594 --> 01:07:22.377 And yes, they do it because they care, but they also do it, quite frankly, like most insurance companies do, because they're going to save money. 1425 01:07:22.697 --> 01:07:22.937 Sure. 1426 01:07:22.977 --> 01:07:24.557 Because if I can get Hamilton... 1427 01:07:25.438 --> 01:07:26.838 So, Josh, here's the funny story. 1428 01:07:27.178 --> 01:07:30.200 I told you I knew I had a problem, and I wanted help. 1429 01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:32.540 I just didn't want the help they were giving me. 1430 01:07:33.201 --> 01:07:34.061 That's the secret. 1431 01:07:34.121 --> 01:07:35.161 95% of people that don't want help... 1432 01:07:37.102 --> 01:07:39.485 the traditional way, it doesn't mean that they don't want help. 1433 01:07:39.565 --> 01:07:40.646 Now, there are some of them. 1434 01:07:40.686 --> 01:07:41.387 There are some of them. 1435 01:07:41.947 --> 01:07:43.489 And I get asked this question all the time. 1436 01:07:43.549 --> 01:07:45.411 How do you help someone that doesn't want help? 1437 01:07:45.491 --> 01:07:47.073 And I used to bullshit my way through it. 1438 01:07:47.113 --> 01:07:48.314 It's quite it's very simple. 1439 01:07:48.374 --> 01:07:48.755 You don't. 1440 01:07:49.595 --> 01:07:53.720 If you don't give a shit, if you live or die and you're really happy using drugs and alcohol, you're not. 1441 01:07:55.097 --> 01:07:58.518 There's not much I can do about it, but most people want help. 1442 01:07:58.958 --> 01:08:02.318 They just want to, they don't want the help you're trying to give them. 1443 01:08:02.478 --> 01:08:09.000 And so that's where the model becomes, then you give them whatever they need to get them started and we'll figure it out as we go down the line. 1444 01:08:09.020 --> 01:08:09.160 Yeah. 1445 01:08:09.180 --> 01:08:12.200 Because there's no bridge to the, to the fear factor of it. 1446 01:08:12.340 --> 01:08:14.181 It's, this is what my life is like now. 1447 01:08:14.221 --> 01:08:21.422 And this is the feeling that I get from all of the things that I do that maybe aren't even healthy for me, but I understand it's a problem to just don't do it. 1448 01:08:21.602 --> 01:08:21.802 Right. 1449 01:08:22.242 --> 01:08:23.523 So let me ask you a question. 1450 01:08:25.343 --> 01:08:26.404 I know you love your family. 1451 01:08:26.444 --> 01:08:28.405 I know you love your wife and I know you love your kids. 1452 01:08:28.445 --> 01:08:30.526 That's that's so take that off the table. 1453 01:08:30.766 --> 01:08:34.368 Outside of that, what is something that you absolutely love doing? 1454 01:08:34.848 --> 01:08:36.409 I love having conversations like this. 1455 01:08:36.669 --> 01:08:37.649 I love having intimate. 1456 01:08:37.669 --> 01:08:38.850 I hate small talk. 1457 01:08:38.870 --> 01:08:43.812 I love sitting down with people and having deep discussions about anything I'm interested in. 1458 01:08:43.892 --> 01:08:46.413 And if somebody came to you today, well, you also like to read. 1459 01:08:46.453 --> 01:08:47.514 You love to read. 1460 01:08:47.554 --> 01:08:48.014 You love to read. 1461 01:08:48.034 --> 01:08:49.635 Let's use that one because that's an easier one. 1462 01:08:49.795 --> 01:08:49.895 OK. 1463 01:08:50.275 --> 01:08:53.557 If I came to you today and said, Josh, you can never read again. 1464 01:08:54.607 --> 01:08:55.128 Starting now. 1465 01:08:56.309 --> 01:08:57.430 And it's destroying your life. 1466 01:08:57.490 --> 01:08:58.851 Your wife fucking hates it. 1467 01:08:59.012 --> 01:09:01.374 Everyone around you thinks you're an idiot because you read too much. 1468 01:09:01.614 --> 01:09:02.896 You have to stop reading right now. 1469 01:09:03.476 --> 01:09:04.978 What kind of stress does that bring you? 1470 01:09:05.058 --> 01:09:06.039 I can feel it already. 1471 01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:06.960 Like right now, I don't like it. 1472 01:09:06.980 --> 01:09:07.320 I hate it. 1473 01:09:07.340 --> 01:09:07.681 That's it. 1474 01:09:07.701 --> 01:09:10.063 You're taking away the best friends you've ever had. 1475 01:09:10.083 --> 01:09:10.423 Yeah. 1476 01:09:10.443 --> 01:09:11.885 I tell everyone to go fuck themselves. 1477 01:09:11.965 --> 01:09:13.747 That's exactly what people tell them. 1478 01:09:14.946 --> 01:09:16.847 That, that, that, that's the secret. 1479 01:09:17.487 --> 01:09:17.768 Okay. 1480 01:09:18.908 --> 01:09:19.128 Okay. 1481 01:09:19.148 --> 01:09:22.070 So let's, let's move this to a practical place. 1482 01:09:22.390 --> 01:09:23.331 I want to ask two questions. 1483 01:09:23.351 --> 01:09:24.652 I'm going to ask one first of all. 1484 01:09:24.672 --> 01:09:26.633 We're going to go through that and then I'll ask another one. 1485 01:09:26.653 --> 01:09:26.753 Okay. 1486 01:09:27.333 --> 01:09:36.698 So if there's an executive or a leader or a manager in an organization and they know that somebody has an issue or a problem. 1487

01:09:36.718 --> 01:09:38.119 Yep. 1488 01:09:38.139 --> 01:09:38.880 Now you said, yeah. 1489 01:09:40.038 --> 01:09:42.161 Just a minute ago, this is a question that you get a lot. 1490 01:09:42.221 --> 01:09:43.402 I'm going to flip it a little bit. 1491 01:09:43.803 --> 01:09:47.368 I'm not going to ask how do they do it. 1492 01:09:47.388 --> 01:09:48.950 I'm going to ask what do they do. 1493 01:09:49.891 --> 01:09:53.475 Well, I'll tell you, they do one or two things today. 1494 01:09:54.657 --> 01:09:55.318 They ignore it. 1495 01:09:56.795 --> 01:10:00.657 They don't do anything, which is probably a lot of those situations. 1496 01:10:01.077 --> 01:10:05.279 But then you've got people that are listening to this that are good people and they want to help and they do that. 1497 01:10:05.820 --> 01:10:10.442 They'll go to them and they'll say, hey, Josh, I know something's going on. 1498 01:10:10.602 --> 01:10:11.423 I love you, buddy. 1499 01:10:11.583 --> 01:10:12.883 I don't want you to ruin your life. 1500 01:10:12.963 --> 01:10:13.504 I don't want you to. 1501 01:10:13.704 --> 01:10:14.904 They say all the right things. 1502 01:10:15.985 --> 01:10:18.626 But the next question is, then what do they do? 1503 01:10:18.986 --> 01:10:19.247 Right. 1504 01:10:19.507 --> 01:10:20.207 And that's that. 1505 01:10:20.547 --> 01:10:20.787 Yeah. 1506 01:10:20.867 --> 01:10:24.649 Well, the answer is it depends on what the organization has for resources. 1507 01:10:24.669 --> 01:10:24.889 Yeah. 1508 01:10:24.929 --> 01:10:25.710 What should they do? 1509 01:10:26.975 --> 01:10:33.678 What they should do is they should buy U-Turn Health and let us do it because that's, I mean, not because it's us or find another solution like us. 1510 01:10:33.798 --> 01:10:39.380 What they would typically do if it's addiction, most companies have an EAP. 1511 01:10:39.780 --> 01:10:41.521 It's called an Employee Assistance Program. 1512 01:10:42.921 --> 01:10:44.322 Almost everyone has an EAP. 1513 01:10:44.342 --> 01:10:48.603 You have them through your payroll company or you pay separately for them or you have it through your insurance company. 1514 01:10:49.063 --> 01:10:50.284 I have Blue Cross Blue Shield. 1515 01:10:50.404 --> 01:10:51.104 I get a message. 1516 01:10:51.164 --> 01:10:52.605 If you're ever struggling, call this number. 1517 01:10:52.625 --> 01:10:52.765 Yeah. 1518 01:10:53.545 --> 01:10:57.389 The problem with an EAP is, and again, no offense to EAPs, they're great. 1519 01:10:57.469 --> 01:10:58.650 They are clinical in nature. 1520 01:10:58.690 --> 01:11:02.073 So when you call in, they need to diagnose you with something, and then they're going to get you. 1521 01:11:02.113 --> 01:11:06.458 Most EAPs will get, as part of your plan, you get three free sessions with a counselor. 1522 01:11:06.978 --> 01:11:10.241 So I'll give you a real-world example of how an EAP works. 1523 01:11:11.324 --> 01:11:15.127 One of the times I told you when my wife told me the last time she was done, I knew it. 1524 01:11:15.388 --> 01:11:18.390 But there was a time before that where she told me and it was close. 1525 01:11:18.910 --> 01:11:21.112 So I called my EAP. 1526 01:11:21.132 --> 01:11:23.734 I literally called them and I said, hey, I'm Hamilton Baden. 1527 01:11:23.754 --> 01:11:24.895 This is my social security number. 1528 01:11:24.915 --> 01:11:25.756 This is my birthday. 1529 01:11:25.776 --> 01:11:27.317 I think I've got a drinking problem. 1530 01:11:27.958 --> 01:11:29.419 Oh, we're so proud of you for calling. 1531 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:30.160 Thank you so much. 1532 01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:30.980 We're going to help you. 1533 01:11:31.956 --> 01:11:36.060 They look it up and they go, you're in 85260, which is Scottsdale. 1534 01:11:36.080 --> 01:11:39.182 There are three counselors in your area that specialize in this. 1535 01:11:39.223 --> 01:11:40.063 Here are their phone numbers. 1536 01:11:40.123 --> 01:11:40.944 I'm going to text you. 1537 01:11:40.984 --> 01:11:41.745 Have a great day. 1538 01:11:41.785 --> 01:11:42.245 Good luck. 1539 01:11:42.305 --> 01:11:42.946 Hung up the phone. 1540 01:11:44.187 --> 01:11:45.168 Do you think I called them? 1541 01:11:46.229 --> 01:11:46.829 Actually, I did. 1542 01:11:47.009 --> 01:11:47.270 Did you? 1543 01:11:47.330 --> 01:11:47.970 This gets better. 1544 01:11:48.030 --> 01:11:48.311 Yeah. 1545 01:11:48.391 --> 01:11:54.276 So I called all of the counselors and I got my first available appointment, which was a month and a half away. 1546 01:11:55.550 --> 01:11:55.870 What? 1547 01:11:56.270 --> 01:11:59.671 Yeah, usually it takes a while. 1548 01:12:00.512 --> 01:12:02.492 Now the question, did I go to that appointment? 1549 01:12:03.033 --> 01:12:03.613 The answer is no. 1550 01:12:04.353 --> 01:12:10.475 If you give an addict a month and a half, first of all, I had to manipulate myself to figure out I got it figured out. 1551 01:12:10.595 --> 01:12:14.476 Then I had to manipulate my wife, which I was good at doing, that I had it figured out. 1552 01:12:14.976 --> 01:12:17.577 So by the time that appointment came around, I'd already forgotten about it. 1553 01:12:17.617 --> 01:12:19.038 I'd cancel off my calendar. 1554 01:12:19.058 --> 01:12:19.618 I never went. 1555 01:12:19.858 --> 01:12:21.901 Yeah, that is the challenge with EAPs. 1556 01:12:22.081 --> 01:12:22.582 Yeah, of course. 1557 01:12:22.622 --> 01:12:31.335 And it's it's like if somebody was going to go buy something they they wanted and that that person selling it said, great, but you can pick it up in 45 days. 1558 01:12:31.355 --> 01:12:31.675 That's right. 1559 01:12:32.423 --> 01:12:33.303 That's right. 1560 01:12:33.723 --> 01:12:36.264 But it's the clinical part that is the struggle. 1561 01:12:36.464 --> 01:12:41.846 And so in our model, it's... And here, go back to the way we designed this. 1562 01:12:42.406 --> 01:12:45.987 The right way to do this, in my

opinion, is, Josh, you work for me. 1563 01:12:46.368 --> 01:12:48.248 I go to you and I go, Josh, I love you. 1564 01:12:48.748 --> 01:12:49.929 I think something's going on. 1565 01:12:50.429 --> 01:12:53.770 I don't need to know about it, but here's what I'm going to tell you. 1566 01:12:53.930 --> 01:12:56.891 Because I love you so much, I'm going to have U-Turn Health reach out to you. 1567 01:12:57.391 --> 01:12:57.891 Done deal. 1568 01:12:58.111 --> 01:12:59.452 Josh doesn't have to do shit. 1569 01:13:00.172 --> 01:13:03.116 Now I'm going to refer you to U-Turn Health. 1570 01:13:03.236 --> 01:13:05.619 I'm going to call U-Turn and say, I got this guy that works for me. 1571 01:13:05.639 --> 01:13:06.399 His name is Josh. 1572 01:13:06.440 --> 01:13:07.000 He's awesome. 1573 01:13:07.180 --> 01:13:09.203 I don't know what's going on, but he's acting differently. 1574 01:13:09.263 --> 01:13:10.144 Something's weird. 1575 01:13:10.925 --> 01:13:11.506 I need you to. 1576 01:13:11.966 --> 01:13:13.928 And now he becomes our responsibility. 1577 01:13:13.968 --> 01:13:15.190 So we're going to start reaching out. 1578 01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:16.131 Now, here's the secret. 1579 01:13:16.652 --> 01:13:17.573 I'm going to text Josh. 1580 01:13:17.593 --> 01:13:18.554 Hey, Josh, I'm Hamilton. 1581 01:13:18.574 --> 01:13:19.495 I'm going to text Josh. 1582 01:13:19.635 --> 01:13:21.857 heard something's going on, just want to check on you, see what's up. 1583 01:13:21.997 --> 01:13:23.318 Josh is not going to respond to me. 1584 01:13:23.698 --> 01:13:25.839 That's that we know that I'm not going to stop. 1585 01:13:26.420 --> 01:13:29.622 And if I have to switch and say, Hey, Josh, I understand you live in Arizona. 1586 01:13:29.642 --> 01:13:34.245 Did you hear the Cardinals just got rid of, um, whatever that little short quarterback was that we had. 1587 01:13:34.686 --> 01:13:36.247 Um, we just got rid of him. 1588 01:13:36.767 --> 01:13:46.394 I am not going to stop because at some point during that month, there will be a moment of vulnerability, or I will say something that resonates with Josh and Josh will respond. 1589 01:13:46.834 --> 01:13:47.795 And that's how it works. 1590 01:13:47.975 --> 01:13:48.275 Yeah. 1591 01:13:48.860 --> 01:13:51.902 It's just it's like I'm not going to give up on you. 1592 01:13:52.022 --> 01:13:53.844 It doesn't matter how I get there. 1593 01:13:54.084 --> 01:13:58.247 I am going to connect with you and I'm going to start you down this road. 1594 01:13:58.507 --> 01:13:59.888 We take away all the fear. 1595 01:14:00.308 --> 01:14:07.353 And so for the leader, the manager, the practical example, it's not what can they do to convince this person? 1596 01:14:07.573 --> 01:14:11.816 It's what steps should they take so they can connect them with the person that can. 1597 01:14:11.977 --> 01:14:12.377 That's right. 1598 01:14:12.957 --> 01:14:15.978 Now, if we're talking about suicide, it's very different. 1599 01:14:16.218 --> 01:14:19.118 Suicide is one that we do everything. 1600 01:14:19.138 --> 01:14:21.539 I was going to ask, do you do that as well? 1601 01:14:21.739 --> 01:14:22.519 Yeah, we do. 1602 01:14:22.719 --> 01:14:24.579 So I call what we do behavioral health. 1603 01:14:24.619 --> 01:14:34.201 So addiction is near and dear to my heart because I'm an addict, but mental health issues, mental illness, PTSD, suicide, all the way down to stress, grief. 1604 01:14:34.281 --> 01:14:37.902 We do a ton of stuff with grief when the family member dies, all of that stuff. 1605 01:14:38.483 --> 01:14:39.845 Suicide, I do. 1606 01:14:39.865 --> 01:14:47.379 I'm not an expert at suicide, but my COO is, and I just saw her do a presentation, and I'll try to sum it up very quickly. 1607 01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:47.920 Wow. 1608 01:14:48.631 --> 01:14:52.874 At the cellular level, us as human beings are meant to survive. 1609 01:14:53.574 --> 01:14:57.976 So when you cut your arm, your blood automatically coagulates, not going to let you bleed out. 1610 01:14:58.036 --> 01:15:00.338 You don't have to wake yourself up after you go to sleep. 1611 01:15:00.358 --> 01:15:03.099 You don't have to make yourself breathe or beat your heart, whatever. 1612 01:15:03.700 --> 01:15:11.664 So if someone ever gets to that point where they are contemplating ending their life, they are trying to override the natural instinct. 1613 01:15:11.704 --> 01:15:12.565 So it's serious. 1614 01:15:14.221 --> 01:15:19.503 And a lot of people think there's a lot of myths that if I bring it up to somebody, I'm going to cause them to go die by suicide. 1615 01:15:19.523 --> 01:15:20.843 That is completely a myth. 1616 01:15:21.703 --> 01:15:31.746 If someone shows you that they're suicidal or asks you or says it to you, you have been called by the universe or God to respond to that person. 1617 01:15:31.846 --> 01:15:38.088 And you need to ask them outright, are you going to harm yourself or are you thinking about hurting yourself? 1618 01:15:38.228 --> 01:15:39.489 You owe that to them. 1619 01:15:39.529 --> 01:15:41.429 The universe is asking you to respond. 1620 01:15:41.449 --> 01:15:42.470 Does that make sense? 1621 01:15:42.870 --> 01:15:43.150 It does. 1622 01:15:43.170 --> 01:15:43.290 Yeah. 1623 01:15:44.190 --> 01:15:46.092 And and then you need to go deeper. 1624 01:15:46.312 --> 01:15:49.294 If Josh says yes, you say, how would you do that? 1625 01:15:49.695 --> 01:15:50.495 How are you going to do that? 1626 01:15:50.836 --> 01:15:57.281 And if he says, oh, because if anybody's really to that point, they've trust me, they've thought through that. 1627 01:15:57.821 --> 01:15:59.562 You need to be able to remove what. 1628 01:15:59.602 --> 01:16:02.825 So just as I have a gun, I'm going to shoot myself. 1629 01:16:02.885 --> 01:16:03.806 Where is the gun? 1630 01:16:04.266 --> 01:16:06.708 You need to actively intervene in that. 1631 01:16:06.768 --> 01:16:08.209 You need to

stay with the person. 1632 01:16:08.229 --> 01:16:09.210 You need to call 988. 1633 01:16:09.450 --> 01:16:10.291 Do you know that now? 1634 01:16:10.331 --> 01:16:10.811 There's a 918. 1635 01:16:10.831 --> 01:16:11.492 Yes, I've heard that. 1636 01:16:11.512 --> 01:16:11.672 918. 1637 01:16:11.772 --> 01:16:15.415 one one emergencies, nine, eight, eight suicide hotline all across this country. 1638 01:16:15.955 --> 01:16:17.156 You need to get them to the ER. 1639 01:16:17.196 --> 01:16:20.059 You need to do whatever it takes and do not leave them alone. 1640 01:16:20.719 --> 01:16:23.161 Now, this brings up an interesting point. 1641 01:16:23.201 --> 01:16:26.744 I'll name three people, Robin Williams, Anthony Bourdain. 1642 01:16:27.364 --> 01:16:29.826 And there was a guy named Twitch who was famous on social. 1643 01:16:29.846 --> 01:16:32.789 He was a black guy that was a big social media guy, always laughing. 1644 01:16:32.929 --> 01:16:34.770 All three of those guys died by suicide. 1645 01:16:34.950 --> 01:16:35.911 No one would have guessed it. 1646 01:16:36.472 --> 01:16:37.813 No one would have seen the markers. 1647 01:16:37.833 --> 01:16:38.333 Yeah. 1648 01:16:38.493 --> 01:16:40.114 I also think we need to talk about it. 1649 01:16:40.334 --> 01:16:51.580 I think as a leader in our organizations, we should say, if anybody in this organization is struggling and you've ever thought about harming yourself, I want you to know you can always come and talk to me. 1650 01:16:52.080 --> 01:16:53.661 Because that helps with those people. 1651 01:16:53.681 --> 01:16:55.281 But suicide's a little bit differently. 1652 01:16:55.682 --> 01:16:58.463 When it's addiction or mental health and stuff, get them to us. 1653 01:16:58.543 --> 01:16:59.804 We're immediately going to intervene. 1654 01:16:59.844 --> 01:17:01.324 We're going to get them to coach within 24 hours. 1655 01:17:02.965 --> 01:17:03.925 Again, don't use us. 1656 01:17:04.065 --> 01:17:08.886 Use someone else that does the same thing, which there aren't very many people out there that do that. 1657 01:17:08.966 --> 01:17:12.087 But when it comes to suicide, you need to act and you need to act immediately. 1658 01:17:12.187 --> 01:17:12.427 Yeah. 1659 01:17:12.767 --> 01:17:19.589 And so if you're the person trying to intervene, you got to put your big boy pants on and have these conversations and not let that person off the hook. 1660 01:17:19.849 --> 01:17:20.229 That's right. 1661 01:17:20.289 --> 01:17:21.269 And there's another myth. 1662 01:17:21.409 --> 01:17:25.750 There's another myth that you have to be trained in suicide prevention to be able to talk to someone. 1663 01:17:25.770 --> 01:17:27.771 That was the first thought that came to my head. 1664 01:17:27.851 --> 01:17:28.571 It's also a myth. 1665 01:17:28.591 --> 01:17:29.431 So let me ask you a question. 1666 01:17:29.451 --> 01:17:30.852 Do you have a best friend growing up? 1667 01:17:30.952 --> 01:17:31.112 Yeah. 1668 01:17:31.372 --> 01:17:31.592 All right. 1669 01:17:31.632 --> 01:17:32.292 You still know him? 1670 01:17:32.432 --> 01:17:32.592 Yeah. 1671 01:17:33.813 --> 01:17:38.495 or your kid, if one of those two people came to you and said, dad, I don't think I want to live anymore. 1672 01:17:38.755 --> 01:17:39.336 What would you do? 1673 01:17:39.556 --> 01:17:42.037 The first thing you do is you put your arms around and go, I love you. 1674 01:17:42.097 --> 01:17:42.878 We're going to get through this. 1675 01:17:43.098 --> 01:17:43.678 That's what you do. 1676 01:17:43.838 --> 01:17:44.018 Yeah. 1677 01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:45.619 But you keep them safe. 1678 01:17:45.779 --> 01:17:45.959 Yeah. 1679 01:17:46.339 --> 01:17:50.342 And then you get the experts to come in and help, but stopping or helping, or, 1680 01:17:51.302 --> 01:17:58.607 Or speaking about it, you do not have—you do not—I mean, if that was the case, we would never solve this issue. 1681 01:17:58.727 --> 01:17:58.967 Yeah. 1682 01:17:59.488 --> 01:18:01.169 What about the person you don't know very well? 1683 01:18:01.209 --> 01:18:06.432 The person that maybe it's a co-worker, you've only talked to them a few times, but this happens to come up. 1684 01:18:06.472 --> 01:18:07.873 It's going to be hard, I would say it. 1685 01:18:08.294 --> 01:18:08.534 Yeah. 1686 01:18:08.554 --> 01:18:09.775 Because what happens if you don't? 1687 01:18:09.795 --> 01:18:11.096 Because what happens if you don't? 1688 01:18:11.616 --> 01:18:17.320 I'll give you a really crazy example, and everybody's going to think I'm an egomaniac for saying this, but I don't give a shit because I'm not. 1689 01:18:18.769 --> 01:18:22.370 I had a lady that worked for a lady that worked for me. 1690 01:18:22.470 --> 01:18:24.110 So this lady was too under me. 1691 01:18:24.170 --> 01:18:26.631 This is when I was at the last company. 1692 01:18:26.851 --> 01:18:28.431 I knew nothing about what I know now. 1693 01:18:28.551 --> 01:18:29.851 I had just gotten into recovery. 1694 01:18:29.871 --> 01:18:30.871 I'm sitting in my office. 1695 01:18:30.951 --> 01:18:34.932 She brings the lady in and she goes, I said, what's going on? 1696 01:18:35.132 --> 01:18:37.193 And she goes, I'm just, I'm really depressed. 1697 01:18:37.413 --> 01:18:39.013 I just don't know if I want to be here anymore. 1698 01:18:39.713 --> 01:18:41.754 I had no idea what to do. 1699 01:18:41.774 --> 01:18:45.094 I looked at her and I said, well, we're not going to let that happen. 1700 01:18:45.254 --> 01:18:45.914 We love you. 1701 01:18:46.155 --> 01:18:47.295 Let's go talk to HR. 1702 01:18:47.335 --> 01:18:48.375 Let's get you the help we need. 1703 01:18:50.201 --> 01:18:53.324 Four years later, that kid had a baby and she named him Hamilton. 1704 01:18:54.084 --> 01:18:56.546 It was the greatest thing I've ever seen in my life. 1705 01:18:56.646 --> 01:18:57.727 And I did nothing. 1706 01:18:58.368 --> 01:18:59.268 I did nothing.

1707 01:19:00.109 --> 01:19:01.090 But I cared. 1708 01:19:01.410 --> 01:19:03.632 And I got up and told her, we're not going to let that happen. 1709 01:19:03.652 --> 01:19:04.112 And I helped her. 1710 01:19:04.132 --> 01:19:04.593 That was it. 1711 01:19:05.033 --> 01:19:06.514 And that doesn't make me special. 1712 01:19:06.695 --> 01:19:07.615 Doesn't make me cool. 1713 01:19:07.675 --> 01:19:09.697 It just means I'm a human being that I care about people. 1714 01:19:10.177 --> 01:19:10.498 Yeah. 1715 01:19:10.718 --> 01:19:13.901 You know, and I think that that message is clouded these days. 1716 01:19:15.736 --> 01:19:17.677 I have four pillars that I put everything through. 1717 01:19:17.717 --> 01:19:19.718 It's freedom, presence, impact and love. 1718 01:19:19.738 --> 01:19:24.681 And my audience is tired of me explaining that, but it always comes up in these conversations. 1719 01:19:25.761 --> 01:19:27.702 And I want to bring this one up because impact. 1720 01:19:28.363 --> 01:19:29.984 You never know what you say. 1721 01:19:30.004 --> 01:19:30.944 Never. 1722 01:19:30.964 --> 01:19:34.426 Or how you how what you say will impact someone else. 1723 01:19:34.506 --> 01:19:35.727 Positively or negatively. 1724 01:19:35.767 --> 01:19:37.147 Positively or negatively. 1725 01:19:37.528 --> 01:19:41.610 You know, and the flip side of that coin is everybody is fighting a battle you know nothing about. 1726 01:19:43.026 --> 01:19:48.434 And so when you say that it's your duty to intervene... 1727 01:19:49.868 --> 01:19:50.508 That resonates. 1728 01:19:50.768 --> 01:19:50.989 Yeah. 1729 01:19:51.669 --> 01:19:52.409 Well, think about it. 1730 01:19:52.629 --> 01:19:54.090 Our bodies are meant to survive. 1731 01:19:54.150 --> 01:19:58.913 And if someone wants to override that and they have the balls to tell you, you have to. 1732 01:19:59.013 --> 01:20:00.894 Well, you don't have to do anything, but you should. 1733 01:20:01.294 --> 01:20:02.054 I'll tell you something funny. 1734 01:20:02.074 --> 01:20:04.176 What you just said is everybody's fighting a battle. 1735 01:20:04.216 --> 01:20:13.841 I saw a video the other day and this girl goes, I finally figured out how easy life was when I realized everyone is here for the first fucking time and no one knows what the fuck to do. 1736 01:20:13.941 --> 01:20:15.762 And I was like, that makes sense to me. 1737 01:20:16.442 --> 01:20:16.782 It's true. 1738 01:20:17.162 --> 01:20:17.442 It is. 1739 01:20:17.582 --> 01:20:18.022 It's true. 1740 01:20:18.242 --> 01:20:20.003 What a great way to put that into perspective. 1741 01:20:20.163 --> 01:20:20.963 Yeah. 1742 01:20:22.583 --> 01:20:23.683 And I didn't know what I was doing. 1743 01:20:23.783 --> 01:20:24.003 Yeah. 1744 01:20:24.383 --> 01:20:30.964 I just, there's that rich always has a saying, no one knows, no one cares how much, you know, until they know how much you care. 1745 01:20:31.284 --> 01:20:39.786 One of the things that I think every leader should do is, you know, I have, there's, there's a lot of stuff that I'm really, really bad at. 1746 01:20:39.906 --> 01:20:43.146 But one of the things I'm really good at is I actually do care. 1747 01:20:43.267 --> 01:20:45.967 And I ask a lot of questions and I have a photographic memory. 1748 01:20:46.447 --> 01:20:49.988 So I like I already know from you, I've met you. 1749 01:20:50.028 --> 01:20:51.849 This is the first time I've ever met you in person. 1750 01:20:51.889 --> 01:20:54.669 And I can tell you 12 things about yourself that you've already told me. 1751 01:20:55.150 --> 01:20:57.350 And I will repeat those back to you at some point. 1752 01:20:57.670 --> 01:21:00.891 And you now know, holy shit, he actually does give a shit. 1753 01:21:00.931 --> 01:21:01.772 He was listening to me. 1754 01:21:02.252 --> 01:21:06.373 If we all did that with people around us, wouldn't the world be a better place? 1755 01:21:07.073 --> 01:21:09.695 Even if we don't give a shit, at least act like we do. 1756 01:21:10.175 --> 01:21:11.356 It makes people feel good. 1757 01:21:11.596 --> 01:21:12.117 Absolutely. 1758 01:21:12.617 --> 01:21:13.077 Absolutely. 1759 01:21:13.097 --> 01:21:14.758 How to win friends and influence people, right? 1760 01:21:14.818 --> 01:21:18.481 Be hearty in your affirmation and lavish in your praise. 1761 01:21:18.861 --> 01:21:19.922 I need to read that book now. 1762 01:21:20.122 --> 01:21:20.462 Which one? 1763 01:21:20.603 --> 01:21:21.043 This one? 1764 01:21:21.063 --> 01:21:22.064 The one, yeah, the Robert Cole. 1765 01:21:22.444 --> 01:21:23.465 Yeah, the Cialdini. 1766 01:21:23.665 --> 01:21:24.485 Yeah, that's awesome. 1767 01:21:24.665 --> 01:21:25.266 Great book. 1768 01:21:25.526 --> 01:21:25.906 Absolutely. 1769 01:21:25.926 --> 01:21:26.987 I can't recommend it enough. 1770 01:21:27.227 --> 01:21:27.707 Love it. 1771 01:21:27.727 --> 01:21:28.268 Yeah, great book. 1772 01:21:28.588 --> 01:21:28.788 All right. 1773 01:21:28.808 --> 01:21:34.190 So we answered the question about what a leader or executive should do if somebody on their team is struggling. 1774 01:21:34.490 --> 01:21:37.070 What about a leader or executive who's struggling themselves? 1775 01:21:37.690 --> 01:21:41.371 Struggling and hasn't gotten better yet or struggling and doesn't know what to do? 1776 01:21:42.912 --> 01:21:44.192 Let's find the through line. 1777 01:21:44.252 --> 01:21:45.112 Let's arc it out. 1778 01:21:45.192 --> 01:21:48.913 Let's say that they're not sure if they are struggling. 1779 01:21:48.953 --> 01:21:54.535 They're not sure if they have a problem, but they have a mosquito in their ear saying something's not right. 1780 01:21:54.735 --> 01:21:55.516 What's their next step? 1781 01:21:55.616 --> 01:21:56.016 Call me. 1782 01:21:56.036 --> 01:22:02.263 I mean, or call someone like me or talk to someone like me or talk to someone. 1783 01:22:02.423 --> 01:22:09.330 I mean, the worst thing that you can

do, go back to the rest rat study is isolate and get in your own head and figure it and try to figure it out yourself. 1784 01:22:10.531 --> 01:22:12.073 You know, I'll tell you an interesting story. 1785 01:22:12.453 --> 01:22:13.715 I, two weeks ago, 1786 01:22:15.335 --> 01:22:20.779 I got really, really sick and what it turned out to be, it was probably stress. 1787 01:22:20.980 --> 01:22:21.740 It was anxiety. 1788 01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:23.281 It was physical anxiety. 1789 01:22:24.262 --> 01:22:25.343 And I haven't felt that. 1790 01:22:25.563 --> 01:22:31.268 I used to have a lot of physical anxiety when I was drinking, but I hadn't felt that in 15 years. 1791 01:22:32.068 --> 01:22:33.149 And I didn't know what it was. 1792 01:22:33.209 --> 01:22:36.732 I went to the doctor, they checked me out and I knew I was like in fight or flight. 1793 01:22:37.032 --> 01:22:39.314 And serendipitously, I met this guy. 1794 01:22:41.357 --> 01:22:42.682 And we had a business meeting. 1795 01:22:43.004 --> 01:22:45.694 And two days later, he just reached out and said, are you feeling better? 1796 01:22:45.714 --> 01:22:45.815 Yeah. 1797 01:22:46.815 --> 01:22:49.956 And I just started engaging with him and word vomited all over him. 1798 01:22:49.976 --> 01:22:54.477 It turns out he's a breathing expert and he taught me what to do. 1799 01:22:54.997 --> 01:22:57.378 And I've been phenomenal ever since then. 1800 01:22:57.738 --> 01:23:01.299 And most people seeing this is like, well, Hamilton seems like he's got his shit together. 1801 01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:03.140 He knows what the fuck he's doing now, this and that. 1802 01:23:03.360 --> 01:23:04.100 I don't think that at all. 1803 01:23:04.720 --> 01:23:05.180 Yeah. 1804 01:23:05.561 --> 01:23:07.481 But you can always learn from other people. 1805 01:23:07.821 --> 01:23:13.203 And I just anyone that is struggling and has something in their ear, 1806 01:23:14.444 --> 01:23:16.125 don't let it sit there. 1807 01:23:16.325 --> 01:23:17.866 I'll give you an example. 1808 01:23:18.126 --> 01:23:22.388 My dear brother-in-law passed away from colorectal cancer. 1809 01:23:23.589 --> 01:23:25.310 He was a burly dude. 1810 01:23:25.390 --> 01:23:27.091 He was a construction guy. 1811 01:23:27.892 --> 01:23:29.993 His dad was a doctor. 1812 01:23:30.133 --> 01:23:33.755 He had blood in his stool for like a year and then finally went to the doctor. 1813 01:23:34.455 --> 01:23:36.856 Most people, when you have blood in your stool, you're going to go to the doctor. 1814 01:23:36.936 --> 01:23:41.979 Well, if you have a mosquito in your ear and it's itching at you, go see someone or go talk to someone. 1815 01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:44.741 That's the one thing I can encourage you to do. 1816 01:23:44.881 --> 01:23:45.901 Now, let's flip it. 1817 01:23:46.342 --> 01:23:48.803 If you're a leader that's struggled with stuff... 1818 01:23:50.623 --> 01:23:55.528 First of all, I don't know anyone in this world that hasn't struggled, whether personally or a family member. 1819 01:23:55.548 --> 01:23:56.690 And I do this all the time. 1820 01:23:56.730 --> 01:23:57.951 I get people to raise their hand. 1821 01:23:58.772 --> 01:23:59.413 And it's funny. 1822 01:23:59.493 --> 01:24:01.855 When I got sober, I thought I was the weird one. 1823 01:24:02.316 --> 01:24:06.981 I tell people now, if you've never struggled or has a family member that struggled, you're the fucking weird one. 1824 01:24:07.922 --> 01:24:08.583 Tell your story. 1825 01:24:09.383 --> 01:24:10.104 Tell your story. 1826 01:24:10.224 --> 01:24:13.487 Stand up and tell people like say it at the meeting. 1827 01:24:13.527 --> 01:24:16.690 Hey, guys, I used to deal with a depression and I saw a therapist. 1828 01:24:17.151 --> 01:24:22.596 We were we were kicking off the iron workers district last week and we were giving this great presentation. 1829 01:24:22.736 --> 01:24:26.399 And at the end of the presentation, this guy raised his hand and he said, can I say something? 1830 01:24:27.160 --> 01:24:27.741 I'm like, sure. 1831 01:24:27.761 --> 01:24:31.226 And this is a big burly iron worker, dude, badass motherfucker. 1832 01:24:32.027 --> 01:24:38.455 And he goes, guys, he goes, I used to come home from work every day and I would open the door and I would throw my problems in the door. 1833 01:24:38.736 --> 01:24:42.501 And he goes, one day I came home and I opened the door and there was no more room. 1834 01:24:44.346 --> 01:24:47.049 And he was telling us where he was headed. 1835 01:24:47.790 --> 01:24:50.914 And he goes, and something clicked, and I saw a therapist. 1836 01:24:51.214 --> 01:24:58.602 And that right there changed everyone in that room's life because he had the courage to talk about it. 1837 01:24:59.323 --> 01:25:03.368 When you start normalizing this, that's when the stigma starts to go away. 1838 01:25:07.428 --> 01:25:09.170 That can be very difficult for people. 1839 01:25:10.090 --> 01:25:10.311 Yep. 1840 01:25:11.091 --> 01:25:11.492 Can be. 1841 01:25:11.932 --> 01:25:14.054 But if we want to fix it, that's what we have to do. 1842 01:25:14.374 --> 01:25:14.614 Yeah. 1843 01:25:14.854 --> 01:25:16.496 And I don't—I don't know. 1844 01:25:17.897 --> 01:25:19.358 I mean, I'm just a different bird. 1845 01:25:19.378 --> 01:25:20.659 I mean— 1846 01:25:22.743 --> 01:25:24.583 Sometimes politics are involved. 1847 01:25:24.804 --> 01:25:28.885 For whatever reason, we see this shit as weakness and it's just not. 1848 01:25:29.045 --> 01:25:29.705 And the more. 1849 01:25:30.185 --> 01:25:31.205 But think about it. 1850 01:25:31.405 --> 01:25:39.347 When your boss stands up in the meeting and says, you guys have no idea, but I've had a daughter that's been struggling for a year and a half. 1851 01:25:40.948 --> 01:25:41.988 It changes everything. 1852 01:25:43.405 --> 01:25:43.745 Yeah. 1853 01:25:44.226 --> 01:25:52.294 You know, at the end of the day, impact and the

ability to move people, it all starts with human connection. 1854 01:25:52.554 --> 01:25:57.659 And the only way that you can truly connect with another human being is if you're at least a little bit vulnerable. 1855 01:25:58.340 --> 01:25:59.781 If you humanize yourself. 1856 01:25:59.882 --> 01:26:00.102 Yep. 1857 01:26:01.185 --> 01:26:02.186 That's a great way of putting it. 1858 01:26:02.446 --> 01:26:02.746 It is. 1859 01:26:03.647 --> 01:26:04.487 But I agree with you. 1860 01:26:04.728 --> 01:26:05.748 It is hard for some people. 1861 01:26:05.808 --> 01:26:09.451 I was at a meeting this week, and it's a political organization. 1862 01:26:09.651 --> 01:26:14.254 And a guy, I actually, during the keynote, I asked people to share their story. 1863 01:26:15.808 --> 01:26:16.849 And a few people stood up. 1864 01:26:16.969 --> 01:26:19.851 One guy stood up and literally started crying. 1865 01:26:20.291 --> 01:26:24.635 And this was a trade union and got a standing ovation. 1866 01:26:25.495 --> 01:26:29.358 Afterwards, a guy came up to me privately and he said, I was suicidal. 1867 01:26:29.378 --> 01:26:30.539 You guys saved my life. 1868 01:26:30.599 --> 01:26:32.320 And he goes, and I wanted to stand up. 1869 01:26:32.961 --> 01:26:38.245 But I knew there would be members in that organization that would see me as weak. 1870 01:26:38.785 --> 01:26:42.828 And then they would try to kill me politically and get me replaced in my job. 1871 01:26:43.629 --> 01:26:44.850 And that made me very sad. 1872 01:26:46.076 --> 01:26:46.516 But I get it. 1873 01:26:47.896 --> 01:26:48.437 I mean, I get it. 1874 01:26:52.518 --> 01:26:58.259 All right, if you could go back and do it all over again, what would you tell your 20 year old self? 1875 01:26:59.219 --> 01:27:00.660 Invest money quickly. 1876 01:27:01.140 --> 01:27:09.502 That was why I mean, I would not change one fucking thing about my life other than when I was 21 years old and I got my first job, I would start investing in my 401k. 1877 01:27:09.762 --> 01:27:10.722 It's the only thing I would change. 1878 01:27:11.322 --> 01:27:13.103 You wouldn't change anything about your experience. 1879 01:27:13.183 --> 01:27:13.883 Not one thing. 1880 01:27:15.012 --> 01:27:17.094 I am exactly where I'm supposed to be. 1881 01:27:17.314 --> 01:27:19.657 And I got here from every one of those experiences. 1882 01:27:19.737 --> 01:27:20.718 That sounds crazy. 1883 01:27:21.278 --> 01:27:23.300 I didn't even get into the part. 1884 01:27:23.521 --> 01:27:26.464 Like when I came home from rehab, that was the harder part. 1885 01:27:27.204 --> 01:27:28.666 So I got better in rehab. 1886 01:27:30.578 --> 01:27:32.319 My wife and I still were not getting along. 1887 01:27:32.700 --> 01:27:33.821 Still wasn't working out. 1888 01:27:33.941 --> 01:27:34.881 My wife's a cancer. 1889 01:27:35.022 --> 01:27:36.182 So she's born in July. 1890 01:27:36.883 --> 01:27:37.864 Cancers don't leave. 1891 01:27:37.904 --> 01:27:38.865 My wife's a cancer too. 1892 01:27:39.005 --> 01:27:40.866 So she left emotionally. 1893 01:27:41.126 --> 01:27:42.447 She did not leave the house. 1894 01:27:42.587 --> 01:27:43.488 She did not leave me. 1895 01:27:44.329 --> 01:27:45.149 So I came back. 1896 01:27:46.022 --> 01:27:48.183 And now I'm quote unquote healed. 1897 01:27:48.323 --> 01:27:50.785 Now this is going to be, you got to follow me through this. 1898 01:27:51.845 --> 01:27:54.687 My wife was fucking pissed. 1899 01:27:54.727 --> 01:27:57.328 Because I came back and now I'm everyone's hero. 1900 01:27:57.548 --> 01:27:59.389 Everyone's calling me a hero. 1901 01:27:59.489 --> 01:28:00.550 You're so brave. 1902 01:28:00.610 --> 01:28:01.910 I can't believe you did that. 1903 01:28:01.950 --> 01:28:03.071 I'm so proud of you. 1904 01:28:03.771 --> 01:28:04.912 She's like, fuck you. 1905 01:28:04.972 --> 01:28:06.713 You went to yoga for six weeks. 1906 01:28:08.245 --> 01:28:11.507 I had to run my business and take care of the kids for six weeks. 1907 01:28:11.587 --> 01:28:17.451 And more importantly, I dealt with this shit for 10 years in secret and no one was there to support me. 1908 01:28:17.992 --> 01:28:18.512 Fuck you. 1909 01:28:19.713 --> 01:28:20.814 I was pissed at her. 1910 01:28:21.274 --> 01:28:22.095 Now I get it. 1911 01:28:23.072 --> 01:28:25.173 I totally understand where she was then. 1912 01:28:25.253 --> 01:28:27.775 I totally sympathize with her because think about it. 1913 01:28:27.795 --> 01:28:29.776 You live with an alcoholic for 10 years. 1914 01:28:30.376 --> 01:28:31.317 No one sees it. 1915 01:28:31.717 --> 01:28:34.918 Now all of a sudden he gets courageous and we're all kissing his ass. 1916 01:28:35.099 --> 01:28:35.899 What about her? 1917 01:28:36.039 --> 01:28:37.600 She needed love and support as well. 1918 01:28:37.620 --> 01:28:38.160 So I get it. 1919 01:28:38.781 --> 01:28:40.922 So she was mad and we lived this... 1920 01:28:41.622 --> 01:28:43.724 I wouldn't say it was a horrible life, but it wasn't good. 1921 01:28:43.824 --> 01:28:45.165 It was very toxic. 1922 01:28:45.285 --> 01:28:46.386 We were together. 1923 01:28:46.426 --> 01:28:50.410 I came home in September, September, October, November, December. 1924 01:28:51.011 --> 01:28:52.152 I was seeing a therapist. 1925 01:28:52.292 --> 01:28:55.074 The therapist was even asking me, why are you staying? 1926 01:28:56.084 --> 01:28:58.966 And we should have been asking my wife why she was staying, but she stayed. 1927 01:28:59.907 --> 01:29:03.930 So finally, I was in Chicago on a business trip. 1928 01:29:04.071 --> 01:29:05.091 We were on a phone. 1929 01:29:05.272 --> 01:29:06.953 She was bitching me out about something. 1930 01:29:07.093 --> 01:29:09.415 And guys, I want to let you know, my wife is fucking phenomenal. 1931 01:29:09.435 --> 01:29:09.835 I love her. 1932 01:29:09.875 --> 01:29:10.396 We made it. 1933 01:29:10.576 --> 01:29:12.518 But I do understand

now. 1934 01:29:13.238 --> 01:29:14.859 And she said something to me and it clicked. 1935 01:29:14.919 --> 01:29:15.680 I said, that's it. 1936 01:29:15.840 --> 01:29:16.300 I'm done. 1937 01:29:16.560 --> 01:29:23.685 Click, hung up the phone, called, got an apartment that night, came home, got my shit, moved out, delivered her divorce papers. 1938 01:29:23.885 --> 01:29:24.525 I was done. 1939 01:29:25.206 --> 01:29:26.407 I said, I put in the work. 1940 01:29:26.567 --> 01:29:27.747 I did what I needed to do. 1941 01:29:27.787 --> 01:29:28.928 You're not going to support me. 1942 01:29:29.048 --> 01:29:29.488 I get it. 1943 01:29:29.629 --> 01:29:30.229 But that's it. 1944 01:29:30.309 --> 01:29:30.809 We tried. 1945 01:29:31.009 --> 01:29:31.590 End of story. 1946 01:29:33.003 --> 01:29:35.524 We were separated for five weeks. 1947 01:29:36.785 --> 01:29:37.806 We did our own thing. 1948 01:29:37.826 --> 01:29:38.606 I went out. 1949 01:29:38.846 --> 01:29:39.467 I was done. 1950 01:29:39.487 --> 01:29:40.447 I lived my life. 1951 01:29:40.687 --> 01:29:42.268 I dated other girls, this and that. 1952 01:29:42.388 --> 01:29:44.970 I was in New York five weeks later with my buddy. 1953 01:29:46.290 --> 01:29:50.533 And we had blocked each other on social media, all the immature shit people do. 1954 01:29:51.473 --> 01:29:55.736 And I saw on my buddy's Facebook a picture of my wife and I called her. 1955 01:29:56.236 --> 01:29:58.539 I don't know why I called her and she answered the phone. 1956 01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:00.162 And my youngest daughter's name is Lily. 1957 01:30:00.202 --> 01:30:01.524 She goes, Lily's not here. 1958 01:30:02.084 --> 01:30:03.907 She thought I was calling to ask about Lily. 1959 01:30:04.347 --> 01:30:05.549 And I said, no, no, no, no, no. 1960 01:30:05.669 --> 01:30:07.231 I said, I have one question for you. 1961 01:30:07.251 --> 01:30:07.972 And she goes, what? 1962 01:30:08.653 --> 01:30:11.718 I said, why could you not give me what I needed when I came home? 1963 01:30:12.666 --> 01:30:14.027 And I don't know what happened. 1964 01:30:14.707 --> 01:30:15.748 Everything clicked. 1965 01:30:16.489 --> 01:30:18.010 And it opened up the floodgates. 1966 01:30:18.130 --> 01:30:21.112 We talked on the phone for almost 24 hours straight. 1967 01:30:21.912 --> 01:30:22.553 I moved home. 1968 01:30:22.693 --> 01:30:23.813 I moved out of my apartment. 1969 01:30:23.854 --> 01:30:24.934 I moved back into the house. 1970 01:30:24.974 --> 01:30:26.315 We went to marriage counseling. 1971 01:30:26.335 --> 01:30:27.356 We repaired our marriage. 1972 01:30:27.396 --> 01:30:29.938 We've never been more in love, never been happier. 1973 01:30:30.958 --> 01:30:37.401 We had to live through that because she had to get to the point where she said, it's not all about his alcoholism. 1974 01:30:37.721 --> 01:30:39.501 I've got to work on myself as well. 1975 01:30:40.102 --> 01:30:43.403 It took that pain to get us to the place we are today. 1976 01:30:43.903 --> 01:30:45.984 So, no, I would not change one thing about my story. 1977 01:30:46.304 --> 01:30:52.186 Do you think that without you going to rehab that your wife and you would still be together? 1978 01:30:52.566 --> 01:30:56.628 We might be together, but we wouldn't have anywhere as close to a good of a marriage as we have had. 1979 01:30:56.788 --> 01:30:58.189 Look, I'll be very candid with you. 1980 01:30:58.229 --> 01:30:59.109 I say it all the time. 1981 01:30:59.210 --> 01:31:05.613 If I woke up that morning and my wife had given me four admil and a Bloody Mary to cure my hangover, I would have never gone to treatment. 1982 01:31:06.374 --> 01:31:08.315 And then who the hell knows what would happen? 1983 01:31:08.515 --> 01:31:09.656 I would bet you money. 1984 01:31:09.896 --> 01:31:11.137 The answer is probably no. 1985 01:31:11.917 --> 01:31:12.898 But I don't. 1986 01:31:13.298 --> 01:31:16.080 It's hard for me to say that now because I know how great our marriage is. 1987 01:31:16.100 --> 01:31:16.720 You know what I mean? 1988 01:31:16.760 --> 01:31:17.001 Yeah. 1989 01:31:17.181 --> 01:31:17.521 I can't. 1990 01:31:17.841 --> 01:31:18.662 I have no idea. 1991 01:31:18.842 --> 01:31:20.383 And I wouldn't want to find out. 1992 01:31:21.123 --> 01:31:25.567 Is there anything that you—sure, maybe there's nothing you would have done differently. 1993 01:31:25.667 --> 01:31:33.134 Is there anything else that today's version of Hamilton would have said to her back then? 1994 01:31:33.795 --> 01:31:35.236 When I came home or before? 1995 01:31:35.256 --> 01:31:35.357 Yeah. 1996 01:31:38.486 --> 01:31:42.211 Just probably knowing what I know now, I would have said I understand. 1997 01:31:42.231 --> 01:31:42.692 Okay. 1998 01:31:43.012 --> 01:31:44.334 Because I do understand now. 1999 01:31:44.474 --> 01:31:45.696 And I didn't understand then. 2000 01:31:45.756 --> 01:31:47.138 It took going through that. 2001 01:31:47.659 --> 01:31:48.600 I didn't understand. 2002 01:31:48.620 --> 01:31:50.603 I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you, dude? 2003 01:31:50.703 --> 01:31:52.766 I did exactly what you wanted me to do. 2004 01:31:52.806 --> 01:31:52.906 Yeah. 2005 01:31:53.386 --> 01:31:54.007 But, but... 2006 01:31:54.668 --> 01:31:55.969 But that's actually not true. 2007 01:31:56.289 --> 01:31:58.170 She didn't want me to quit drinking. 2008 01:31:58.310 --> 01:31:59.491 She didn't know what she wanted. 2009 01:31:59.952 --> 01:32:06.156 She just knew that she didn't understand what was going on and it wasn't normal. 2010 01:32:06.616 --> 01:32:08.597 And she didn't want to deal with it anymore. 2011 01:32:08.737 --> 01:32:11.139 No one knew what the solution should be at that time. 2012 01:32:11.559 --> 01:32:12.820 But knowing what I know now... 2013 01:32:13.240 --> 01:32:13.781 Oh, my God. 2014 01:32:13.841 --> 01:32:15.722 I would have said, look, I'm really sorry. 2015 01:32:16.282 --> 01:32:20.706

And I know I didn't do it on purpose, but I put you through a lot of pain. 2016 01:32:20.746 --> 01:32:22.407 I put myself through a lot of pain. 2017 01:32:22.487 --> 01:32:25.649 I would explain to her the neurobiology of addiction and hope she got it. 2018 01:32:26.290 --> 01:32:29.112 And we would have we would have I would have done it a different way that way. 2019 01:32:29.892 --> 01:32:30.793 Yeah, that's it. 2020 01:32:30.813 --> 01:32:36.297 All right, Hamilton, what is a question that you wish more people would ask you? 2021 01:32:38.379 --> 01:32:42.362 I think there's a question that, well, the only question I can think of. 2022 01:32:43.390 --> 01:32:50.835 which is my favorite interview question because it got asked of me once is what is the biggest misperception of you? 2023 01:32:50.855 --> 01:32:52.436 I think that's the greatest question. 2024 01:32:52.456 --> 01:32:53.597 That's a wonderful question. 2025 01:32:53.617 --> 01:32:54.157 Isn't it awesome? 2026 01:32:54.778 --> 01:32:55.018 Yeah. 2027 01:32:55.258 --> 01:32:57.659 So I got asked that question. 2028 01:32:59.701 --> 01:33:01.542 So I'm a little bit of a dichotomy. 2029 01:33:02.663 --> 01:33:06.125 I know I come across extremely energetic people. 2030 01:33:06.365 --> 01:33:08.207 Sometimes probably overconfident. 2031 01:33:08.227 --> 01:33:11.831 You could call that cocky, eccentric. 2032 01:33:12.852 --> 01:33:19.398 What most people don't see in me when you first meet me, I mean, you've been with me for almost two hours now. 2033 01:33:19.458 --> 01:33:20.759 So you see this. 2034 01:33:21.520 --> 01:33:29.642 I'm actually one of the most sensitive, caring, thoughtful people in the world, but I know my persona for the first five minutes that doesn't come across. 2035 01:33:30.162 --> 01:33:32.422 That's probably the biggest misperception of me. 2036 01:33:33.742 --> 01:33:37.963 But that question is awesome because it makes you stop and think from a different lens. 2037 01:33:38.143 --> 01:33:39.363 That's a really great question. 2038 01:33:39.403 --> 01:33:40.844 I'm going to add that to my repertoire. 2039 01:33:40.864 --> 01:33:42.284 I want to know what your answer would be. 2040 01:33:42.684 --> 01:33:44.124 What's the biggest misperception of me? 2041 01:33:44.264 --> 01:33:44.424 Yeah. 2042 01:33:44.684 --> 01:33:45.545 That I'm an extrovert. 2043 01:33:47.025 --> 01:33:47.465 And you're not? 2044 01:33:47.665 --> 01:33:47.805 No. 2045 01:33:48.709 --> 01:33:51.270 No, I get my energy from being alone. 2046 01:33:52.351 --> 01:33:55.052 That's really funny because that's where I mean I'm a dichotomy. 2047 01:33:55.072 --> 01:33:57.373 Yeah. 2048 01:33:57.433 --> 01:33:58.874 People will tell me anything. 2049 01:33:59.074 --> 01:34:00.695 I can talk to anyone. 2050 01:34:02.166 --> 01:34:03.926 And I don't love a ton of people. 2051 01:34:04.206 --> 01:34:04.407 Yeah. 2052 01:34:04.667 --> 01:34:05.827 Doesn't mean I don't like people. 2053 01:34:06.007

--> 01:34:09.768 It just means I don't get I don't want to be really, really close. 2054 01:34:09.928 --> 01:34:11.388 And I love being by myself. 2055 01:34:11.448 --> 01:34:11.688 Yeah. 2056 01:34:11.768 --> 01:34:12.088 Love it. 2057 01:34:12.748 --> 01:34:18.990 And the reason why that's a misperception of mine and a dichotomy for me as well. 2058 01:34:19.010 --> 01:34:22.431 You don't know this, but I do a lot of public speaking as well. 2059 01:34:22.971 --> 01:34:27.012 And I'm at conferences all the time, shaking hands, rubbing elbows. 2060 01:34:27.472 --> 01:34:31.733 I am the guy in the spotlight talking with people, coaching people. 2061 01:34:32.653 --> 01:34:33.914 being in the crowd. 2062 01:34:33.934 --> 01:34:38.477 And then at the end of the day, I collapse because that drains me. 2063 01:34:38.697 --> 01:34:39.477 I do the same thing. 2064 01:34:40.218 --> 01:34:40.998 I do the same thing. 2065 01:34:41.078 --> 01:34:42.920 My wife will say, she'll come home. 2066 01:34:43.080 --> 01:34:48.283 Like I'll be on my computer starting at six o'clock and it's Zoom or Teams after Teams after Teams. 2067 01:34:48.323 --> 01:34:50.464 And like you, I'm usually leading those calls. 2068 01:34:50.524 --> 01:34:51.665 It's not like I'm passive. 2069 01:34:52.245 --> 01:34:54.266 And so because we're on West 2070 01:34:57.168 --> 01:34:59.110 I'm usually done 3.30, 4 o'clock. 2071 01:34:59.251 --> 01:35:01.273 I take about an hour to decompress. 2072 01:35:01.433 --> 01:35:03.876 She comes home, we eat dinner, and I want to go lay down and watch TV. 2073 01:35:04.076 --> 01:35:04.277 Yeah. 2074 01:35:04.737 --> 01:35:06.479 And she's like, you don't want to do anything anymore. 2075 01:35:06.659 --> 01:35:08.201 That's the workaholic part of me. 2076 01:35:08.281 --> 01:35:08.482 Yeah. 2077 01:35:09.283 --> 01:35:10.123 It is exhausting. 2078 01:35:10.424 --> 01:35:11.225 It is exhausting. 2079 01:35:11.485 --> 01:35:14.008 But it also helps a lot of people, so. 2080 01:35:14.148 --> 01:35:14.709 Yes, it does. 2081 01:35:16.514 --> 01:35:18.295 Hamilton, where can people learn more? 2082 01:35:18.335 --> 01:35:19.416 Where can they find you? 2083 01:35:19.796 --> 01:35:20.476 Yep, easy. 2084 01:35:20.676 --> 01:35:21.777 U-TurnHealth.com. 2085 01:35:21.897 --> 01:35:27.340 U-Turn is Y-O-U-T-U-R-N, U-TurnHealth.com. 2086 01:35:28.000 --> 01:35:29.181 You can Google my name. 2087 01:35:29.221 --> 01:35:32.142 It's Hamilton Baden with a B-A-I-D-E-N. 2088 01:35:32.903 --> 01:35:33.963 There's videos on there. 2089 01:35:33.983 --> 01:35:36.004 I'm sure this podcast will be all over the place. 2090 01:35:36.065 --> 01:35:40.147 We'll push it out on social media as well, because I love what you guys are doing, what you're doing. 2091 01:35:41.027 --> 01:35:46.209 Um, and my email address is on there, but it's H Baden at U-Turn health.com. 2092 01:35:46.449 --> 01:35:48.890 I, I normally give out my cell phone number. 2093 01:35:48.930 --> 01:35:51.970 I don't give a shit, um, which I'm happy to do. 2094 01:35:52.091 --> 01:35:52.971 You can put it on there. 2095 01:35:52.991 --> 01:36:05.855 Um, you know, we, we are not, we do not have a direct to consumer model today, quite frankly, because most people that if you put any barrier in front of an addict that's struggling, they're going to take it. 2096 01:36:05.955 --> 01:36:09.136 And the second I tell them they have to pay for it, most people don't want to do that. 2097 01:36:09.956 --> 01:36:14.799 So we went down the business route, which is how we get people. 2098 01:36:15.460 --> 01:36:23.425 But if you're struggling, if you know someone that's struggling and you want advice or help, just email me and I'll get back to you and we'll help you any way we can. 2099 01:36:24.586 --> 01:36:26.527 Thank you so much for spending your time with me today, man. 2100 01:36:26.647 --> 01:36:27.388 My luck, dude. 2101 01:36:27.448 --> 01:36:28.910 Thanks for the, it's an honor. 2102 01:36:29.071 --> 01:36:32.415 You'll have to tell people how you ended up even finding me on the airplane. 2103 01:36:32.435 --> 01:36:32.816 Yeah, I will. 2104 01:36:32.876 --> 01:36:34.519 I'll definitely, maybe I'll do that in the intro. 2105 01:36:34.559 --> 01:36:35.440 Yeah, that's awesome. 2106 01:36:35.520 --> 01:36:38.364 But it's great to meet you and I love what you're doing and keep up the good work. 2107 01:36:38.504 --> 01:36:39.406 Yeah, I appreciate you, man. 2108 01:36:39.426 --> 01:36:39.986 Thanks, man. 2109 01:36:40.047 --> 01:36:40.527 Appreciate it. 2110 01:36:40.667 --> 01:36:40.908 All right.