When Caring For Everyone Comes at a Cost: The Daughter Tax Explained의 전체 녹취록

yes, you'll drink it, but this is not a wine alternative. 00:04:48.152 --> 00:04:50.295 It literally tastes like the. 00:04:51.334 --> 00:04:53.493 Like sparkling. Oh, Marnelli. 00:04:53.905 --> 00:04:55.872 Right. With the cranberries. Oh, wow. 00:04:55.872 --> 00:04:58.438 They're marketers. Well done. Well played. 00:04:58.937 --> 00:05:02.890 Yeah. Well played. What do you. Oh, hello. Langers. 00:05:03.712 --> 00:05:08.358 I just saw that. You know, they make juice. Yes. Great juice. 00:05:08.504 --> 00:05:15.964 Oh, man. Like hats off. That is an impressive hoodwinking job. I'm, wow. 00:05:16.568 --> 00:05:17.462 I've been hoodwinked. 00:05:17.462 --> 00:05:18.129 Damn. 00:05:18.664 --> 00:05:19.285 What are you drinking? 00:05:19.623 --> 00:05:26.392 Wow. I am drinking the Millennial Cigarette, a Diet Coke fountain with the ice 00:05:26.392 --> 00:05:30.350 that's melted. So I may take a break in between and put some more ice in it. 00:05:30.721 --> 00:05:35.671 Yeah. Couldn't be bothered running on fumes today. There we go. 00:05:36.634 --> 00:05:40.065 Period. The end. Okay. Let's get into it. So, 00:05:42.422 --> 00:05:45.600 I think what's interesting, well, there's so many things that are interesting 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:50.880 about this, but I think that the angle with this one that I was really blown 00:05:50.880 --> 00:05:53.600 away about is just quantifying it, right? Because it's like, 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.980 oh, yeah, it affects your mental health. Oh, yeah, it affects this. 00:05:57.241 --> 00:06:02.332 But they literally researched this down to the dollar. 00:06:02.808 --> 00:06:06.540 So that's when I was like, holy crap, this isn't just like, yeah, 00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:10.330 it's really stressful. Like, it's costing mama money. 00:06:10.750 --> 00:06:15.310 Like a lot of money that's a house well not in California but 00:06:17.270 --> 00:06:21.630 Well and honestly I kind of joked in the beginning how I lived this and it's 00:06:21.630 --> 00:06:23.814 true like when my stepmom had her stroke, 00:06:24.488 --> 00:06:29.440 the daughters I mean we had no sons we had no brothers it's four girls we were 00:06:29.440 --> 00:06:34.937 all expected to drop everything to come and help care, 00:06:35.570 --> 00:06:41.928 and I mean I have a sister who's a flight attendant so she had to you know cancel trips. 00:06:42.890 --> 00:06:48.132 I had a sister who did the books for a local grocery store. She actually ended up quitting. 00:06:49.007 --> 00:06:53.693 Another sister, she owns her own hair salon. Her clientele took a hit because 00:06:53.693 --> 00:06:55.720 she had to keep putting people off or referring them. 00:06:56.027 --> 00:06:59.405 I mean, I was lucky I could work from home so that I had the flexibility. 00:06:59.970 --> 00:07:03.763 But still, you know, when you're expected to give care at that level, 00:07:04.063 --> 00:07:09.003 your mind's not really, you know, in the game. So I get it. But yeah, 00:07:09.323 --> 00:07:14.236 when they put that in print, the $300,000, I was dumbfounded. 00:07:14.816 --> 00:07:20.113 Yeah, this may or may not have contributed to the latest argument I had with 00:07:20.113 --> 00:07:23.754 my father, which basically centered around, 00:07:24.317 --> 00:07:29.930 you literally had to spend two weeks of your life digging out grandpa's house when he passed. 00:07:30.552 --> 00:07:34.459 And you're doing this to me. I can't believe you're doing this to me because 00:07:35.523 --> 00:07:38.003 I have commissions as part of my compensation plan. 00:07:38.003 --> 00:07:42.833 So when I have to drop everything, right, my brother does not live in state, 00:07:42.833 --> 00:07:46.410 not that he won't help, but hello, I'm right here, 45 minutes away. 00:07:46.642 --> 00:07:51.891 When I have to drop everything, that meter starts running. 00:07:52.576 --> 00:07:57.573 I got the typical thing that he always says when he doesn't want to talk about 00:07:57.573 --> 00:08:01.500 anything anymore and he has no intention of doing it, but he's trying to fob me off. 00:08:01.919 --> 00:08:03.770 I will take it under advisement. 00:08:04.546 --> 00:08:04.763 Oh. 00:08:05.717 --> 00:08:06.094 Wow. 00:08:06.813 --> 00:08:13.262 Yeah. Don't be fooled by those fancy words. Anywho, that's my cross to bear currently. 00:08:13.628 --> 00:08:17.720 But yeah, I think I saw this article right about that time that we had that 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:22.573 little encounter. And I'm like, anyways. anyways. 00:08:22.951 --> 00:08:28.718 The tricky thing about this for us women is that it literally starts from day one. 00:08:29.275 --> 00:08:37.327 So we're socialized, right, as daughters that we need to sacrifice. 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:42.282 You know, being a good daughter means, you know, making sure that everybody's 00:08:42.479 --> 00:08:44.801 taken care of, especially when you're an adult daughter. 00:08:45.508 --> 00:08:50.060 And, you know, I know I've told this story on some of our episodes, 00:08:50.060 --> 00:08:52.939 but when my stepmom had her stroke, 00:08:53.461 --> 00:08:59.120 and the medical professionals came in to train us on the feeding tube and how 00:08:59.120 --> 00:09:01.617 to move her in bed and just all the things, 00:09:02.366 --> 00:09:05.924 you know, my dad looked at me and said, get in there nurse. 00:09:06.626 --> 00:09:10.892 But he didn't go in. He didn't go in to learn how to change her feeding tube. 00:09:11.281 --> 00:09:15.031 So it's just like, and what do you say to your dad? Like, you know, 00:09:15.490 --> 00:09:21.290 you're in that situation. It's extremely difficult to say, I think I'm going 00:09:21.290 --> 00:09:22.523 to take a pass on this one. 00:09:23.149 --> 00:09:27.210 Oh, I remember having a conversation with my dad about the time my mom started 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:31.240 doing things like waking up in the middle of the night and making eggs for the 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:36.621

40 house guests that she thought were upstairs and leaving the stove on, 00:09:37.257 --> 00:09:41.170 blowing out washing machines because she just kept stuffing it and stuffing 00:09:41.170 --> 00:09:43.271 it and saying, Dad, you need more help. 00:09:43.823 --> 00:09:49.506 And him telling me, well, it's really invasive. I don't want people around all the time. 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:50.778 Anywho. 00:09:51.385 --> 00:09:55.554 So we all know we've done a caregiving episode. You know, we all we all know 00:09:55.554 --> 00:09:59.934 that piece. We know that as daughters, we are expected to to step up. 00:09:59.934 --> 00:10:02.824 I mean, of course, blanket generalization 00:10:02.824 --> 00:10:06.020 here. Of course, are there sons that step up to 100 percent? 00:10:06.258 --> 00:10:09.746 Are there some daughters who dip out and say, no, thanks, for sure. 00:10:10.339 --> 00:10:17.474 But on a whole, it's the daughters who are sacrificing their own families, 00:10:17.474 --> 00:10:24.505 their time and their money, their income to help care for usually aging parents. 00:10:25.470 --> 00:10:30.344 But I think we need to talk about the deeper conversation and it's the identity 00:10:30.344 --> 00:10:36.010 also because, you know, the identity piece is such a mind. Fuck. 00:10:37.134 --> 00:10:38.727 Is the word you were searching for? 00:10:39.215 --> 00:10:43.744 Well i wasn't searching i'm just trying to be better i'm trying to save my fucks 00:10:43.744 --> 00:10:45.654 for really good oh but i really. 00:10:46.254 --> 00:10:48.314 When something's really fuck worthy is what you're 00:10:48.314 --> 00:10:53.044 Saying exactly but yeah so it's it's the the whole identity piece that we all 00:10:53.044 --> 00:10:58.248 you know as women deal with through the decades is is a mindfuck because it's like, 00:10:58.841 --> 00:11:03.474 you know we spend our lives caring for the people And then it's like, 00:11:03.474 --> 00:11:05.499 well, if I'm not caring for the people, 00:11:06.027 --> 00:11:08.187 who am I without that piece? 00:11:08.442 --> 00:11:13.594 You know, and let's just say in my scenario, like, who would I be if I told 00:11:13.594 --> 00:11:18.531 my dad, no, I'm not going to do, I'm not comfortable with this, which I wasn't. 00:11:18.891 --> 00:11:22.804 I'm not good at medical stuff, which I'm not. I don't want to. 00:11:22.804 --> 00:11:25.398 But that, I couldn't do that, right? 00:11:25.636 --> 00:11:28.997 And it's like, well, who would I have been had I been able to do that? 00:11:29.327 --> 00:11:34.164 So I just think it's, you know, looking at all these little pieces that go along 00:11:34.164 --> 00:11:39.753 with these invisible roles and these things that we sign up for as women that, 00:11:40.269 --> 00:11:41.703 we never really had a choice in. 00:11:42.760 --> 00:11:45.842 So I want to say two things. First off, 00:11:46.608 --> 00:11:50.595 I think, and you experienced this too from your family, 00:11:51.281 -->

00:11:54.469 I am starting to get the, now that I've dipped out and 00:11:55.078 --> 00:11:59.141 just have backed way off because I got tired of getting sucked into the hell 00:11:59.141 --> 00:12:04.271 mouth of being of service at his beck and call all the time, 00:12:04.271 --> 00:12:06.646 I'm starting to get the calls from family members. 00:12:07.070 --> 00:12:12.357 Well, you know, he's just an old man. Well, how much of a big deal is it? 00:12:12.985 --> 00:12:18.361 And it's like, really, bitches, you want to come and do it? Oh, wait. OK. 00:12:19.281 --> 00:12:25.441 Right now, I have friends. I can think of one in particular who whose mom is 00:12:25.981 --> 00:12:29.257 lovely and a pleasure to do things for. 00:12:29.779 --> 00:12:33.999 And she knows how lucky she is. I have friends who are in that situation. 00:12:34.114 --> 00:12:41.611 But I got to say, 75 percent of us are in not so nice situations. 00:12:42.468 --> 00:12:47.621 Through various things from attitude of parents to the health concerns that 00:12:47.621 --> 00:12:53.011 they have to like, if it's a memory care thing to wealth of the parent, 00:12:53.011 --> 00:12:55.511 like there's so many variables that can mess that up. 00:12:55.511 --> 00:13:00.691 But I would venture to say that the people that are in a situation where they 00:13:00.691 --> 00:13:06.545 can share the load, whatever it is, it's manageable in the minority, in my experience. 00:13:07.563 --> 00:13:11.400 Yeah, luckily there were four of us, four daughters to share the load. 00:13:11.841 --> 00:13:15.749 Because honestly, I don't think just one of us could have done it. 00:13:17.184 --> 00:13:21.560 I just, I don't. So I, I, I feel for you, for you and your situation. 00:13:22.065 --> 00:13:26.622 That whole time in our lives was just so incredibly awful. 00:13:27.266 --> 00:13:30.802 You know, we're all just doing the best that we can, but yeah, 00:13:30.802 --> 00:13:34.302 one of my sister's values was different than mine in this regard. 00:13:34.302 --> 00:13:38.091 And, and she's just basically, no, this is what we do for our parents. 00:13:38.439 --> 00:13:44.812 We drop everything, whether it's our jobs, our own kids, whatever we have going 00:13:44.812 --> 00:13:50.020 on at our house, we just, nothing else matters. We drop everything to go take care of our parents. 00:13:50.763 --> 00:13:55.059 And it's not to say I didn't love my parents and didn't want to care for them. 00:13:55.849 --> 00:14:02.952 But the feeling of obligation, you know, and this responsibility that I don't 00:14:02.952 --> 00:14:07.582 have a say in, that's when I had an issue, you know? 00:14:08.569 --> 00:14:11.471 And I think it's a matter of degrees too, right? 00:14:11.814 --> 00:14:16.843 It's like, In a lot of situations, it doesn't matter what you do. 00:14:17.783 --> 00:14:21.409 Total subservience to the situation is... 00:14:22.536 --> 00:14:25.351 You said it values. I think that's great. That's what's valued. 00:14:25.514 --> 00:14:29.281 Anything less than like my brother loves to say, you know, Lisa, 00:14:29.281 --> 00:14:35.371 anything other than us moving in with him and waiting on him hand and foot will never be adequate. 00:14:35.371 --> 00:14:38.801 My name is Karen Shatafian and I am a shameless coffee addict, 00:14:38.801 --> 00:14:42.451 an empowerment coach for women, and my love language is authenticity. 00:14:42.811 --> 00:14:47.205 My mission is helping women unapologetically design a life they're in love with. 00:14:47.461 --> 00:14:51.141 Because what the hell are we waiting for. My website, KarenChatafian.com has 00:14:51.141 --> 00:14:55.118 all my coaching packages and free offers like my midlife reclamation guide. 00:14:55.408 --> 00:14:59.111 In it, you'll find tools to help you decide how to create the most inspired 00:14:59.111 --> 00:15:01.817 and empowered version of yourself and your life. 00:15:02.258 --> 00:15:06.001 You can find me on Facebook and Instagram talking about ways women can show 00:15:06.001 --> 00:15:09.270 up for themselves after decades of showing up for everyone else. 00:15:09.781 --> 00:15:13.502 Join me as we throw off the shackles and live our best freaking lives. 00:15:13.856 --> 00:15:16.385 See the show notes for all the details cheers. 00:15:17.143 --> 00:15:21.181 And and that's another issue i have where it's like it doesn't matter the good 00:15:21.181 --> 00:15:26.571 stuff that i did all the things that i did that were way above and beyond because 00:15:26.571 --> 00:15:30.479 now that i'm pulling back you know i'm a bad daughter 00:15:31.601 --> 00:15:36.981 and i mean i'm to the point where it's so damaged that i don't really care if 00:15:36.981 --> 00:15:41.651 i'm a bad daughter but it would have been nice not to get to this point And 00:15:41.651 --> 00:15:43.539 when I think about what it's going to take, 00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:50.562 when he is incapacitated or gone, having watched you go through this, still go through this. 00:15:51.565 --> 00:15:56.708 Yeah, I don't like to think about it. It makes me panicky, to be completely honest. 00:15:57.989 --> 00:16:03.951 It is a lot. And, you know, I just had a flash to when my dad was still alive. 00:16:04.487 --> 00:16:10.149 And at the end, I was able to reconcile my feelings about all of it and my feelings 00:16:10.149 --> 00:16:16.059 for him. So I'm happy about that because it would have been rough had he passed 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:19.403 away and I still was holding on to some of the resentments I had. 00:16:19.937 --> 00:16:21.952 But man, I had some resentments. 00:16:23.264 --> 00:16:26.919 And I remember, and I talked about this, I think on our caregiving episode, 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:31.739 but he was talking to somebody on the phone and he said, I'm just so glad I have daughters. 00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:35.719 And if that doesn't explain the daughter tax right there. 00:16:35.719 --> 00:16:38.113 Yeah, that's pretty

much period, end of story. 00:16:38.624 --> 00:16:41.649 He even knew. If I had sons, I'd be up shit creek. 00:16:43.431 --> 00:16:49.300 Which, again, his sons-in-law, Tony, my brother-in-laws, were fantastic, right? 00:16:49.915 --> 00:16:53.889 But so it's not to say there were no men. It's just myself and my sisters. 00:16:53.889 --> 00:16:55.581 But we were definitely running the ship. 00:16:55.964 --> 00:17:02.388 It's the expectation, right? Like the fact that I have dipped out, it's a big deal. 00:17:02.714 --> 00:17:08.459 And, you know, for me, I've had to weigh the fact that I'm just sick of keeping 00:17:08.459 --> 00:17:12.244 my mouth shut and sick of not feeling like 00:17:13.109 --> 00:17:18.432 I matter, like there aren't very serious and real issues that I'm dealing with that, 00:17:18.944 --> 00:17:24.299 like you said, like I am supposed to be at his beck and call to the detriment 00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:27.107 of literally everything. I am the sole wage earner. 00:17:27.496 --> 00:17:30.609 If I'm not earning money, it's it's not pretty. 00:17:31.347 --> 00:17:37.599 So I think that's it. I think it's just the expectation and the degree that sends me over the edge. 00:17:38.266 --> 00:17:42.755 Anything less than total dedication is not looked upon favorably. 00:17:43.405 --> 00:17:43.678 Yeah. 00:17:44.521 --> 00:17:48.103 And here's like, there are so many things that are intertwined with this. 00:17:48.451 --> 00:17:50.877 You know, it's like our good girl conditioning. 00:17:51.371 --> 00:17:54.192 What are you? Oh, you're not being a good daughter, right? Yep. 00:17:54.621 --> 00:17:59.902 You are literally trying to preserve yourself, your sanity, your family, 00:17:59.902 --> 00:18:02.532 your finances, but you are not a good daughter. 00:18:03.159 --> 00:18:08.572 I was writing a post today about kids, about what people say, 00:18:08.572 --> 00:18:11.252 you know, when you tell somebody you're going to get a divorce and you're a 00:18:11.252 --> 00:18:13.619 woman and for their first thing is, well, what about the kids? 00:18:14.025 --> 00:18:18.972 And it's the same thing. Like they want women, they, society, 00:18:19.312 --> 00:18:24.892 you know, whoever wants women to sacrifice themselves no matter what for the 00:18:24.892 --> 00:18:26.852 children and for the parents. 00:18:27.165 --> 00:18:32.337 It doesn't matter if you are wildly unhappy. It doesn't matter if you're building resentment. 00:18:32.785 --> 00:18:37.330 All of it. And none of it matters because we are expected to sacrifice ourselves 00:18:37.574 --> 00:18:41.521 for the children and the parents and a lot of times other people in the middle. 00:18:42.167 --> 00:18:46.432 Yeah. It's like, it always cracks me up when people like, oh, 00:18:46.432 --> 00:18:49.842 you're so lucky that your husband helps with the cooking and, 00:18:50.306 --> 00:18:52.032 you know, raising of the kids and all. 00:18:52.032 --> 00:18:57.122 And it's like, as my cousin,

shout out to Wendy, would say, he made these children too. 00:18:57.122 --> 00:19:02.742 Or like, oh, my husband offered to babysit while I went out with my friends. 00:19:02.742 --> 00:19:08.200 It's like, I'm pretty sure babysitting is defined as not for your own children. 00:19:08.974 --> 00:19:13.212 Right but it's like it's like the opposite they get praised the more they do 00:19:13.612 --> 00:19:20.716 feel and it's this feeling of it's extra oh you're extra lucky oh you lucked out oh what a great dad 00:19:21.573 --> 00:19:25.962 right so they the praise is heaped on that's that's the meter for them but for 00:19:25.962 --> 00:19:30.530 us the minute we go in any other direction other than total subservience we 00:19:31.435 --> 00:19:32.039 It's a thing. 00:19:32.646 --> 00:19:33.302 Absolutely. 00:19:33.957 --> 00:19:36.913 Like, we are taking, I think I've talked about this on the podcast, 00:19:36.913 --> 00:19:41.063 it's our 20th wedding anniversary, the date just passed, but we're taking a 00:19:41.063 --> 00:19:43.980 cruise to the Adriatic in September. 00:19:45.163 --> 00:19:52.310 Literally, the only time we have been on vacation together without children 00:19:52.612 --> 00:19:56.291 for more than a night, the entire time we've known each other. 00:19:57.108 --> 00:19:58.031 Oh, your kids aren't going? 00:19:58.565 --> 00:19:59.819 Oh, hell no. 00:20:00.341 --> 00:20:01.403 That's awesome. 00:20:01.403 --> 00:20:06.263 No, we're doing two. The one we're doing shortly is with our Autism on the Seas 00:20:06.263 --> 00:20:11.276 cruise folks. But then the one for our anniversary. Oh, oh, hell no. No, that's the big deal. 00:20:11.763 --> 00:20:12.907 Who are your kids going to stay with? 00:20:13.122 --> 00:20:15.493 See, this is this is the thing. And a lot of you guys know that, 00:20:15.493 --> 00:20:19.340 you know, my kids have disabilities. Yeah, they're going to Liam's caregiver. 00:20:20.088 --> 00:20:22.823 Awesome. Yeah. I'm so happy for you guys. 00:20:22.823 --> 00:20:26.242 I'm like, I don't even know what I'm going to do with myself. 00:20:26.625 --> 00:20:26.915 Yeah. 00:20:27.188 --> 00:20:29.513 If I don't have to worry about someone for two weeks. I mean, 00:20:29.513 --> 00:20:33.173 I'm sure I will, but I'm already like, okay, it's too expensive. 00:20:33.173 --> 00:20:35.663 I'm not calling home. We'll text like whatever. 00:20:36.261 --> 00:20:43.358 And I'm just gonna just chill. It's yeah, I don't even know how to wrap my head around it right now. 00:20:44.528 --> 00:20:49.236 And then we can just slide right into the next theme of this episode so nicely with that. 00:20:49.567 --> 00:20:50.947 Boom. Segway. 00:20:51.388 --> 00:20:56.143 It's literally, you said, who am I if I'm, if I'm not constantly taking care 00:20:56.143 --> 00:21:00.593 of or thinking about or worrying about, you know, and not just your kids, you're everybody. 00:21:00.593 --> 00:21:04.173 And, and all moms do this. Like, who am I if

I'm not, you know, 00:21:04.173 --> 00:21:07.083 it's like when my kids went to college, oh my gosh, you know, 00:21:07.083 --> 00:21:11.212 that's, that's a wild experience for a stay-at-home mom. 00:21:11.858 --> 00:21:15.063 Because literally my whole role was taking care of these people, 00:21:15.803 --> 00:21:17.506 you know, like every minute. 00:21:17.970 --> 00:21:22.123 And then, yeah, they decide to get up, be or grow up and be more independent. 00:21:22.123 --> 00:21:25.674 And then they leave. And then you're like, who the hell am I now? 00:21:26.295 --> 00:21:31.983 So I think the caregiving piece is so embroiled into into who we are as women, 00:21:31.983 --> 00:21:34.608 you know, whether it's kids or parents. 00:21:35.038 --> 00:21:39.323 Yeah. And I think the other difficult thing about the whole daughter tax thing 00:21:39.323 --> 00:21:44.633 is like as my other cousin said there is no happy ending right like we all know 00:21:44.633 --> 00:21:50.019 where it all ends and so it it yeah 00:21:51.011 --> 00:21:54.523 What does that mean there is no happy ending well yes. 00:21:55.523 --> 00:22:00.203 Well like if you are caregiving for a parent it's not like they're going to 00:22:00.203 --> 00:22:05.305 make this miraculous recovery i mean when you get to the point where you caregiving for a parent 00:22:05.988 --> 00:22:11.706 the only time it's going to end is when your loved one passes absolutely yes 00:22:12.124 --> 00:22:14.516 so it's a shitty deal no matter how you slice it 00:22:15.433 --> 00:22:21.438 Yeah it's like when my stepmom passed away and by the way she lived like almost two years, 00:22:23.127 --> 00:22:27.188 And she didn't want to be in that. Like she would tell us like she wasn't her 00:22:27.188 --> 00:22:31.928 mind wasn't all there. But sometimes she would say, I got to get out of here. 00:22:31.928 --> 00:22:33.344 I don't I don't want this. 00:22:33.651 --> 00:22:37.318 You know, and so it was gut wrenching. And yeah. 00:22:37.738 --> 00:22:42.736 And ultimately, when she did pass away, it was very bittersweet because she was finally at peace. 00:22:43.422 --> 00:22:46.385 And but she's gone. So, yeah. 00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:54.778 Yeah. Yeah. So I think the question is, you know, knowing how we're raised as 00:22:54.778 --> 00:22:57.899 girls and women, right? Knowing that we're socialized this way. 00:22:58.427 --> 00:23:03.513 First of all, when you do feel like I did, you know, felt like I, 00:23:03.884 --> 00:23:07.458 I was, I felt very guilty about verbalizing my resentment toward my dad at the 00:23:07.458 --> 00:23:11.477 time, you know, but doing what you're doing, setting a boundary with your dad, 00:23:12.098 --> 00:23:13.608 it's kind of rebellious. 00:23:13.608 --> 00:23:18.458 It feels like you're doing something wrong. Oh, 100%. 00:23:18.458 --> 00:23:22.878 When I put the boundary down about Christmas and that he wasn't going to spend 00:23:22.878 --> 00:23:25.397 Christmas with us because of all the stuff that had happened, 00:23:26.043 --> 00:23:32.784 like, that was weeks and weeks of therapy just to get to the point where I could put that boundary down. 00:23:33.375 --> 00:23:33.648 Yeah. 00:23:33.961 --> 00:23:35.106 That was rough. 00:23:35.628 --> 00:23:40.738 Yeah. But I think that's the beautiful thing about being our age because we 00:23:40.738 --> 00:23:42.502 can't, well, I'll speak for myself. 00:23:42.781 --> 00:23:45.213 I wouldn't be able to set any boundaries in my 30s. 00:23:45.538 --> 00:23:48.777 Like, I would just be like, okay, whatever. Sure. 00:23:49.102 --> 00:23:51.788 I wouldn't be able to give my dad any pushback or, you know, 00:23:51.788 --> 00:23:54.908 have honest conversations with him about how I felt. I would just suck it up 00:23:54.908 --> 00:23:58.077 and do it, whatever, because that's what good daughters do. 00:23:58.698 --> 00:24:03.262 So I think when we get, you know, to this age and we lose our estrogen... 00:24:04.283 --> 00:24:07.624 And so we don't care as much anymore. And not that we don't care because, 00:24:07.624 --> 00:24:09.454 of course, we care. We love them. They're a family. 00:24:09.794 --> 00:24:14.326 You know, we care about them. But we don't care to be the doormat. 00:24:14.553 --> 00:24:18.245 We don't care to be the go-to person all the damn time. 00:24:18.814 --> 00:24:19.474 Like you said, 00:24:19.474 --> 00:24:25.270 What did you say? The expected person. You know, it's like, no, done. 00:24:25.612 --> 00:24:31.534 Well, and that's the frustrating thing I feel is it's like you lose all, 00:24:31.534 --> 00:24:34.934 Well, not that you need to be recognized, but it's like the points go away for 00:24:34.934 --> 00:24:40.076 all the good things you do do if you're not doing 100 percent of it. 00:24:40.761 --> 00:24:44.224 And that's the piece that I don't understand that I finally got fed up with 00:24:44.224 --> 00:24:48.987 is it's like, well, no, that's you're just doing what you you're expected to do. 00:24:49.586 --> 00:24:54.459 You know, what's the deal? So I think that's part of it. 00:24:54.616 --> 00:24:58.734 I mean, I know for me, it was like getting to the whole we're not spending Christmas 00:24:58.734 --> 00:25:01.844 together thing was just the weight of so many years. 00:25:01.844 --> 00:25:05.434 Like, you know, the Italian Christmas traditions and all that. 00:25:05.434 --> 00:25:13.406 Like, I was literally going up against, you know, 57 years of tradition. 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:18.524 It was hardcore. I have had that meal every single Christmas. 00:25:19.544 --> 00:25:22.383 With the exception of one time when we were visiting somewhere. 00:25:23.126 --> 00:25:28.490 Maybe two or three times when we were overseas and done it in that way over 50 years. 00:25:29.181 --> 00:25:32.216 And I was like, nope. So it's 00:25:34.196 --> 00:25:40.904 It's just hard because I also don't feel like I don't think we make it easy to talk about either.

00:25:41.456 --> 00:25:48.805 You know, I think obviously death and all that is a really rough conversation to have with people. 00:25:49.194 --> 00:25:53.966 And I think that, you know, understandably, it's hard to have that. 00:25:53.966 --> 00:25:57.576 The other thing that I think is a problem, because I remember having this conversation 00:25:57.576 --> 00:25:59.899 with both my mom and my dad about what they would want. 00:26:00.671 --> 00:26:08.019 It all goes to hell when it's actually here. My mom did not want to stick around 00:26:08.467 --> 00:26:12.200 with a feeding tube, with all the things, just like you said, your stepmom. 00:26:12.425 --> 00:26:15.752 And my dad overrode all of it. 00:26:16.205 --> 00:26:21.526 We were heading for a hospital ethics hearing just before she finally passed 00:26:21.526 --> 00:26:27.077 away because he was just ordering all sorts of invasive tests, 00:26:27.936 --> 00:26:33.609 refusing what the doctor was saying, refusing the things that she had put in her advance directive. 00:26:33.969 --> 00:26:38.426 Like I was fighting him on it. My brother and my dad were ganging up on me so 00:26:38.426 --> 00:26:41.806 that I, you know, I had felt like I was the only one that was fighting for what 00:26:41.806 --> 00:26:44.482 she actually wanted. That's literally where we were headed. 00:26:45.602 --> 00:26:49.286 So it's all well and good to say those things and make those plans. 00:26:49.286 --> 00:26:51.453 But when you're in that moment. 00:26:52.070 --> 00:26:52.343 Yeah. 00:26:53.649 --> 00:26:58.533 And I just have to say, for anybody who doesn't have all their plans set up, 00:27:00.392 --> 00:27:05.482 if you have children, set your plans up because that is something that makes 00:27:05.482 --> 00:27:12.072 the caregiver, whether your parents are still alive or not, it makes, they have a plan. 00:27:12.072 --> 00:27:16.935 Whoever is executing the plan before or after has the plan. If there's no plan. 00:27:17.388 --> 00:27:22.352 Oh, yeah, you are, you are screwed nine ways to Sunday. And people get freaked 00:27:22.352 --> 00:27:24.631 out because it's lawyers and, oh, my God, it's expensive. 00:27:25.078 --> 00:27:29.772 It's honestly not expensive to do a will. If you want to do an estate plan, 00:27:29.772 --> 00:27:32.352 which is a little bit more involved, which I highly recommend. 00:27:32.352 --> 00:27:35.510 Yeah, it's a little bit more. But I am telling you. 00:27:36.328 --> 00:27:43.211 There's no fresh hell like somebody's estate being in test date and you having to deal with all that. 00:27:43.211 --> 00:27:46.421 Like, I mean, think about it. Look at everything you have to deal with. 00:27:46.421 --> 00:27:49.280 Like, Karen has to sell her dad's house and deal with all this stuff, 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.502 you know, which still hasn't sold. And he's passed in February. 00:27:53.263 --> 00:27:59.091 And this is a giant nightmare. But there was a plan in place. So it's like. 00:27:59.091 --> 00:28:00.221 It's a nightmare with the plan. 00:28:00.521 --> 00:28:03.461 Exactly. But at least you know which nightmare you're in for, 00:28:03.461 --> 00:28:06.001 you know, and you don't have to have the courts get involved. 00:28:06.001 --> 00:28:11.381 At any rate, we digress, rabbit hole, moving on. Hey there, I'm Lisa Coracella-McDell, 00:28:11.381 --> 00:28:16.199 your midlife Pacific Northwest princess, here to guide you in the art of next leveling your life. 00:28:16.669 --> 00:28:19.267 I'm passionate about women's health and wellness in midlife, 00:28:19.505 --> 00:28:22.733 especially for moms parenting kids with unique needs like I do. 00:28:23.180 --> 00:28:27.181 I truly believe we can learn, grow, advocate, and care for the planet while 00:28:27.181 --> 00:28:30.448 taking care of ourselves and our families. And I'd love to help you do the same. 00:28:30.634 --> 00:28:34.871 And I'm beyond excited to tell you about my membership for Maxed Out Mamas just 00:28:34.871 --> 00:28:38.931 like me, the Empowered Parent Collective. It's a space for parents to confidently 00:28:38.931 --> 00:28:42.551 advocate for their kids, build inclusive communities, educate themselves, 00:28:42.551 --> 00:28:44.687 and find balance and support along the way. 00:28:45.042 --> 00:28:48.131 To find out more about the Empowered Parent Collective, my classes, 00:28:48.131 --> 00:28:52.891 wellness offerings, parenting tips, advocacy resources, and exclusive drinks 00:28:52.891 --> 00:28:56.646 with the girls goodies, head to nextlevellifewithlisa.com. 00:28:57.040 --> 00:28:59.270 Let's survive and thrive in the messy middle together. 00:28:59.966 --> 00:29:07.041 So the big question is, how do we, if we're going to maintain these caregiving 00:29:07.041 --> 00:29:10.771 roles, which we probably are because we love our people, we're socialized this 00:29:10.771 --> 00:29:14.084 way, right? So it's not like we're going to just stop caring for everybody. 00:29:14.705 --> 00:29:18.407 How do we care for our people without disappearing ourselves? 00:29:19.801 --> 00:29:24.119 I mean, I think the boundary thing is the secret. It is sure not easy to do. 00:29:25.109 --> 00:29:30.472 I feel like for me, it just has been this constant, like, you know, 00:29:31.027 --> 00:29:34.144 what do you want to say? Building the muscle up over the past few years. 00:29:34.777 --> 00:29:38.573 Setting little boundaries and then all the way up to some of the bigger ones 00:29:38.573 --> 00:29:41.133 that I've been setting. You know, even with my kids, you know, 00:29:41.133 --> 00:29:45.683 like my daughter was being a nyah nyah yesterday. And I finally was like, 00:29:45.683 --> 00:29:48.088 you know what? I don't deserve to be treated like this. 00:29:48.401 --> 00:29:53.028 I will speak to you when you are able to be respectful and kind and I walked away 00:29:54.511 --> 00:29:58.386 I think that you have to get comfortable with doing that because no one

else 00:29:58.386 --> 00:30:03.266 is going to do it for you. And I think that we think, I don't know what we think, 00:30:03.266 --> 00:30:07.043 that if we wait around long enough that people will be like, oh, I'm so sorry. 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.646 It doesn't really happen that way, often at least. 00:30:12.646 --> 00:30:16.166 So I think that you are the only one that's going to be able to change this, 00:30:16.166 --> 00:30:22.646 sadly. And I think that being better and better about setting boundaries is 00:30:23.026 --> 00:30:26.040 really kind of the key, in my opinion. 00:30:26.835 --> 00:30:30.736 Right. And I think we need to teach our young, the young women in our lives 00:30:30.736 --> 00:30:35.626 how to do this early on, because then they won't get to their 40s and 50s and 00:30:35.626 --> 00:30:38.224 feel like, oh my God, I'm losing my mind, 00:30:38.793 --> 00:30:42.636 you know, because I'm juggling all these balls and I'm trying to take care of 00:30:42.646 --> 00:30:44.802 everybody because I can't set boundaries. 00:30:44.999 --> 00:30:48.576 So if we can encourage our young, the young women in our lives to learn how 00:30:48.576 --> 00:30:52.526 to set boundaries, then they won't feel guilty setting boundaries with their 00:30:52.526 --> 00:30:55.152 parents or whoever they need to when they're older. 00:30:55.518 --> 00:30:59.806 Yeah. So then our girls won't feel like they're doing something wrong when they're 00:30:59.806 --> 00:31:01.433 setting boundaries. I tell you what. 00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:07.486 It's but it's society. Like, I mean, my daughter is going through something 00:31:07.486 --> 00:31:13.105 with her sport right now where she was trying to join a club team and it's really 00:31:13.453 --> 00:31:15.816 competitive and difficult and she was struggling. 00:31:15.816 --> 00:31:21.346 And the coach did some stuff that I was absolutely not OK with and would have 00:31:21.346 --> 00:31:23.589 said something had I known. 00:31:24.154 --> 00:31:26.191 But she kept it to herself. Why? 00:31:26.830 --> 00:31:31.966 Because she wants to fit into the team. Why? She's not expected to say no. 00:31:32.366 --> 00:31:34.829 She knows that, you know, she wouldn't get picked for games. 00:31:35.228 --> 00:31:41.968 She didn't want me to get involved because, as she puts it, you're going to go full Karen on him. 00:31:42.594 --> 00:31:43.370 Oh, ouch. 00:31:43.580 --> 00:31:49.351 Well, exactly. Number one. But number two, well, yes, your point being, 00:31:49.699 --> 00:31:52.676 But also I had to sit down and say to her Look 00:31:53.912 --> 00:31:59.207 There's no world in which you need to put up with abuse from anyone. 00:31:59.341 --> 00:32:03.521 I don't care what the scenario is and certainly not from adults. 00:32:03.950 --> 00:32:08.604 And you speak up, you say something. And if you can't, you talk to an adult 00:32:09.201 --> 00:32:12.452 that can help you out. But I told her, I was like, you're gone. 00:32:12.452 --> 00:32:15.062 You don't have to put up with that. But she's like, oh, but you spent all this 00:32:15.062 --> 00:32:17.372 money on it. I was like, I get it. I get it. 00:32:17.812 --> 00:32:21.782 But no, you do not have to stay in an abusive situation. 00:32:21.782 --> 00:32:27.642 And I was just so, I mean, I wouldn't have known, but it's, that's what I mean. 00:32:27.642 --> 00:32:33.762 It's just that indoctrination is like, it's, it's just seeping out of the pores of the walls. Right. 00:32:33.762 --> 00:32:37.842 Yeah. And I think in sports, in athletics, in college athletics, 00:32:37.842 --> 00:32:42.132 it's just normalized. It's so normalized for girls and boys. 00:32:42.132 --> 00:32:42.546 Yeah. 00:32:42.918 --> 00:32:51.072 And it's not okay. So why do you think we as women feel like other people's 00:32:51.072 --> 00:32:57.592 needs are so urgent or so important and ours can go on the back burner? 00:32:58.694 --> 00:33:00.336 Like, do you feel that way? I feel that. 00:33:00.458 --> 00:33:03.632 Do you? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. I've got to fight it all the time. 00:33:03.963 --> 00:33:07.772 I feel like a lot of this comes from the biological imperative. 00:33:07.772 --> 00:33:14.452 And what I mean by that is that when a baby is tiny, I don't care if you actually 00:33:14.452 --> 00:33:16.762 gave birth to that baby, if you adopted, whatever. 00:33:16.762 --> 00:33:24.562 If you are caregiving for a newborn infant, it is 100% of the time you. 00:33:24.562 --> 00:33:28.990 Yes, if you have a father involved, it's great, and they can give you a break. 00:33:29.286 --> 00:33:32.882 But let me tell you, I was actually, my husband was listening to this reel. 00:33:32.882 --> 00:33:35.092 I need to find out what it is when I can put it in the show notes. 00:33:35.092 --> 00:33:37.627 But this woman, this comedian was going off about how 00:33:38.536 --> 00:33:42.411 She was pretending she was a newborn and this idea of handing the baby to the father. 00:33:42.724 --> 00:33:46.976 I was like, bitch, what are you doing? You're handing me to some smelly man 00:33:46.976 --> 00:33:48.116 that doesn't smell like you. 00:33:48.116 --> 00:33:51.126 He can't even feed me. What are those round circles for? 00:33:51.126 --> 00:33:55.196 And it was like we were laughing hysterically. But that's what I mean is there's 00:33:55.196 --> 00:34:00.646 this biological piece to it that is just is what it is. 00:34:00.646 --> 00:34:03.666 Now, there's obviously different scenarios, right? 00:34:03.666 --> 00:34:07.006 There are two dads that can raise a baby, all of that. I'm just saying in the 00:34:07.006 --> 00:34:12.729 particular scenario of a woman caring for a newborn, whatever that looks like, 00:34:13.518 --> 00:34:19.376 there is an undeniable biological piece to it of feeding of whatever, 00:34:19.376 --> 00:34:20.576 even if you're bottle feeding. 00:34:20.576 --> 00:34:26.456 And I feel like it kind of sets us up is my point

in this long floundering ramble. 00:34:27.196 --> 00:34:34.724 You are so spot on. I just lived that last week because I went to go babysit 00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:40.916 my grandson with my son because my daughter-in-law had to go out of town for, 00:34:42.192 --> 00:34:44.646 a family situation with her mom and her brother. 00:34:44.646 --> 00:34:50.016 And so she was gone for two nights. So I was the cavalry and I came in to help. 00:34:50.793 --> 00:34:56.976 And, and I mean, my son is a great dad, extremely hands-on, you know, 00:34:57.356 --> 00:35:01.786 I, I love watching him learn and figure it out and just kind of be involved 00:35:01.786 --> 00:35:04.173 and do the things that he should be doing. 00:35:05.075 --> 00:35:10.165 He's not his, he's not my daughter-in-law. He's not mama, you know? 00:35:10.165 --> 00:35:15.003 And, and, and he, and I were joking. It's like moms and dads just do things differently. 00:35:15.521 --> 00:35:18.330 So the baby is literally, he's not even, he's almost two months old. 00:35:18.931 --> 00:35:25.715 And my son, when he cries, my son wants to be like, tickle him or like hold 00:35:25.715 --> 00:35:28.625 him and be like, kind of like playful with him. 00:35:28.788 --> 00:35:31.045 Oh, Jesus Christ. And it's like, it's like, 00:35:31.045 --> 00:35:34.855 Babe, sometimes that works. Sometimes he likes that because he definitely likes 00:35:34.855 --> 00:35:36.357 to be moved and rocked and all that. 00:35:36.711 --> 00:35:40.885 But sometimes you have to wrap him up and just pull all his limbs in and just, 00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:43.115 you know, rock the hell out of him. 00:35:43.115 --> 00:35:49.585 And then, you know, but it's just, I vividly felt what you are talking about 00:35:49.585 --> 00:35:52.845 right now. And it's, and it's true. And, and being a mother myself, 00:35:52.845 --> 00:35:57.573 even though I'm not a mother of my grandson, those, those instincts just all come back. 00:35:58.863 --> 00:36:04.443 And again, stereotypically, sure. Are there some men that know this instinctually 00:36:04.443 --> 00:36:06.038 and some women that don't? Sure. 00:36:06.501 --> 00:36:12.263 But I also think the research shows that there's like pheromones and all sorts 00:36:12.263 --> 00:36:15.249 of stuff that are involved. I don't care if you're breastfeeding or not. 00:36:15.726 --> 00:36:20.953 When a baby is that young, it recognizes its caregiver by sense of smell. 00:36:20.953 --> 00:36:24.282 I'm 99% sure that that is like science based. 00:36:24.560 --> 00:36:28.583 So some of it is just like, I mean. Yeah. 00:36:29.047 --> 00:36:34.653 You know, hopefully mom rolled around on some like baby towels or spit up thing 00:36:34.653 --> 00:36:37.407 or something so that, you know, you have that scent there. 00:36:38.165 --> 00:36:38.449 Yeah. 00:36:39.206 --> 00:36:41.226 So my point is that it starts there. 00:36:41.731 --> 00:36:45.812 Yeah. So we're fighting biology and we're fighting socialization. 00:36:46.091 --> 00:36:46.573 Yes. 00:36:46.573 --> 00:36:46.938 So. 00:36:47.246 --> 00:36:47.963 Exactly. 00:36:48.763 --> 00:36:54.233 So easy. Our beloved listeners, we have to fight against this because those 00:36:54.233 --> 00:36:55.963 two things are pretty damn strong. 00:36:57.183 --> 00:37:01.643 Yeah. So if we want to choose ourselves, which we talk a lot about on this podcast, 00:37:01.643 --> 00:37:06.693 about, you know, choosing ourselves, we really have to recognize, 00:37:06.693 --> 00:37:08.290 yes, what we're up against. 00:37:08.958 --> 00:37:13.383 And then also, it's not like this big, you know, choosing yourself doesn't have 00:37:13.383 --> 00:37:18.373 to mean doing this big, huge decision or making this big, huge change. 00:37:18.373 --> 00:37:20.561 It could be tiny little things. 00:37:21.014 --> 00:37:21.356 Right? 00:37:21.699 --> 00:37:25.123 Until you get used to choosing yourself and then hopefully lead up to the bigger thing. 00:37:25.123 --> 00:37:25.455 Yeah. 00:37:25.669 --> 00:37:30.563 And and leading up to the setting those hard boundaries like you've had to set with your dad, you know? 00:37:31.291 --> 00:37:31.547 Yeah. 00:37:32.167 --> 00:37:35.513 But if you're not used to choosing yourself at all in any realm, 00:37:35.513 --> 00:37:39.923 you're never going to be able to do it when you need to, because life's going 00:37:39.923 --> 00:37:43.033 to hand you some shit sandwiches and you're going to you're going to have to 00:37:43.033 --> 00:37:44.550 know how to take care of yourself. 00:37:45.828 --> 00:37:49.896 So, and we're going to talk about some ways to do that specifically. 00:37:50.233 --> 00:37:55.138 And those of you that are after-hours subscribers and members, 00:37:55.138 --> 00:37:59.352 we are going to try to do like what we always do, provide some solutions. 00:38:00.019 --> 00:38:05.738 So yeah, so if you are a Patreon member, you will be hearing that on the Patreon 00:38:05.738 --> 00:38:09.115 podcast. What is the Patreon, you ask? Well, let me explain it to you this way. 00:38:09.545 --> 00:38:14.188 Karen, when was the last time you had a bougie cocktail and how much did it cost? Yes. 00:38:14.942 --> 00:38:18.302 Gosh, a bougie cocktail? I can't even remember the last time, 00:38:18.302 --> 00:38:21.482 but it was probably like $17 or $18. 00:38:21.482 --> 00:38:28.482 Okay, have I got a deal for you? After Hours is literally half the cost of a 00:38:28.482 --> 00:38:33.546 bougie cocktail per month. That's it. $9.97 a month, y'all. 00:38:34.196 --> 00:38:39.995 You cannot get a bougie cocktail for $9.97 a month. I'm just keeping it real out there. 00:38:40.419 --> 00:38:46.248 So on the outro, there's information about how to become a member. 00:38:46.577 --> 00:38:49.422 There's information in the show notes. If you're watching us on YouTube, 00:38:49.422 --> 00:38:50.862 there's a reel at the end of this. 00:38:51.187 --> 00:38:55.669 But essentially, the other

thing you're doing is you are allowing us to keep 00:38:55.982 --> 00:38:59.894 delivering the content that you've known and loved for two years. 00:39:00.277 --> 00:39:05.782 Your contribution is literally going to us expanding the community and doing 00:39:05.782 --> 00:39:09.142 more because, see, prior episodes, we've gotten to the point where we need a 00:39:09.142 --> 00:39:11.193 little help to do that and to keep it 00:39:11.716 --> 00:39:17.234 sustainable and impactful and continue to bring the quality of content that we are bringing you. 00:39:17.914 --> 00:39:20.126 Anything to add, Ms. Karen, to that? 00:39:20.334 --> 00:39:24.515 You know, if you are a Patreon member, you get the episodes a day early. 00:39:24.793 --> 00:39:25.281 Yes, you do. 00:39:25.890 --> 00:39:30.522 So that's kind of nice. And also, you have a front row seat to, 00:39:31.382 --> 00:39:35.892 because, you know, Lisa and I have things, we're cooking up for this community. 00:39:35.892 --> 00:39:37.972 The cooking is happening, yes. 00:39:37.972 --> 00:39:40.862 The cooking is happening. So you will have a front row seat to that. 00:39:40.862 --> 00:39:45.412 You will already be a part of the inner, I don't want to say inner circle, 00:39:45.412 --> 00:39:49.852 because I definitely don't want to exclude those who are not joining the Patreon yet. 00:39:50.131 --> 00:39:51.356 We love all our people. 00:39:52.018 --> 00:39:55.842 But you will be. You will be, you know, pulling up a chair, sitting at the table 00:39:55.842 --> 00:40:00.789 with us in our after-hours lounge and really having the deeper conversations 00:40:01.172 --> 00:40:02.124 that are important to have. 00:40:02.922 --> 00:40:06.102 And commercial-free, too. No commercials. Nothing. No outros. 00:40:06.102 --> 00:40:09.676 Nada. Just pretty much mainlining us for... 00:40:10.774 --> 00:40:16.644 A good hour. All right, people. Well, like, share. Send this to someone that 00:40:16.644 --> 00:40:20.445 you know is paying a heavy daughter tax right about now. 00:40:21.236 --> 00:40:25.584 Take a minute to go back and reflect on that number. Holy crap in a bucket. Yeah. 00:40:26.252 --> 00:40:30.152 But yeah, send it to someone you think would benefit from it. Yeah. Anything to add? 00:40:31.218 --> 00:40:36.937 No, we appreciate you being here. We would love for you to join us in After Hours and our Patreon. 00:40:37.529 --> 00:40:41.424 If you are leaving now, we just know we appreciate and love every one of you. 00:40:41.424 --> 00:40:44.115 And we will see you next week on the podcast. 00:40:44.772 --> 00:40:47.574 See you next time. Well, we've reached the part of the conversation where we 00:40:47.574 --> 00:40:49.054 probably should stop talking. 00:40:49.054 --> 00:40:49.934 But we never do. 00:40:50.354 --> 00:40:54.194 We really don't. But hold up. You're probably wondering where the rest of this episode went. 00:40:54.194 --> 00:40:57.874 I got you. This is why we have one brain. We've launched Drinks with the Girls 00:40:57.874 --> 00:41:00.115 2.0 and it's over on Patreon. 00:41:00.434 --> 00:41:04.579 We've realized some of our best conversations happen after we've officially wrapped things up. 00:41:04.788 --> 00:41:08.324 This is where you'll get the end of the conversation, plus early access to all 00:41:08.324 --> 00:41:10.529 the episodes so you never miss Last Call. 00:41:11.010 --> 00:41:14.824 You'll get the stories we probably shouldn't share, the things we weren't planning 00:41:14.824 --> 00:41:18.934 to say, the random rabbit holes that somehow become the best part of the conversation. 00:41:18.934 --> 00:41:21.854 Basically, all the stuff that happens when the microphones are still on, 00:41:21.854 --> 00:41:25.604 but we're no longer behaving ourselves like that ever happens. And best of all. 00:41:25.604 --> 00:41:30.054 You'll get in on the ground floor of the rocket ship that is Drinks with the Girls 2.0. 00:41:30.054 --> 00:41:33.004 We've been teasing this for a while now, and it's finally here. 00:41:33.004 --> 00:41:37.334 You'll get to own your very own slice of Drinks with the Girls 2.0 and help 00:41:37.334 --> 00:41:39.694 us launch this sucker into the stratosphere. 00:41:39.694 --> 00:41:43.124 So if you'd like to pull up a seat for one more round or join us for a coffee 00:41:43.124 --> 00:41:45.770 date, come join us on Patreon. The link is in the show notes. 00:41:45.886 --> 00:41:47.708 We'd love to have you, and we're saving you a seat. 00:41:48.399 --> 00:41:51.702 Wait, why are you still here? Head over to Patreon and join us now!