Help! How do I START using the rod when my son is 11?의 전체 녹취록

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WEBVTT 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:14.720 And welcome friends to Generations Kevin Swanson with you today, Todd Strasser and Bill Roach with us with another segment of Discipleship for Dads. 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:16.719 So I'm here to learn some things from you, brothers. 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:26.079 So uh you know, this is an opportunity for iron sharpening iron, just a little bit of mutual edification, and hopefully we'll edify a few of the guys listening to the program right now. 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:28.960 And this comes from a letter that was sent into the program. 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:36.799 And by the way, if you have anything to put on the table, yeah, it's uh host at generations.com or uh mail at generations.com, either way. 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:50.399 Okay, so um this this man he's he's come to the point where he came to solid biblical teaching about three years ago, uh, and his former beliefs have been blown to pieces. 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:52.399 His list is long, he's not gonna give us the list. 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:56.479 Um but it has to do with the training of his children. 00:00:56.719 --> 00:01:06.640 Um he says that during his son's early years, we were exposed to some of the quote gentle parenting nonsense, and the rod was hardly ever deployed. 00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:12.000 As my son, now 11 years of age, grows older and boundary testing becomes more robust. 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:21.680 I am convinced more than ever that the fact that I neglected the rod used very infrequently, but to good effect when deployed, has the potential to backfire down the line. 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:31.920 Where I am struggling is how to now start using the rod, not having done it consistently for many years, and even finding myself wondering if it's not too late, that I may have missed the window of opportunity. 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:40.799 My son is not rebellious and knows what obedience looks like, but I'm concerned that continuing on the path I am now will cause more pain down the line. 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:44.480 In other words, not using the rod in the future is going to have some troubles. 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:45.599 Please help me. 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.560 Okay, so that's the question he poses to us. 00:01:48.719 --> 00:02:00.319 And I I I want to I want to you know broaden this, at least initially, to say, okay, you're navigating changes, theological and practical reforming in your life, and this is what happens to all of us. 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:07.519 You know, we we we change, we hopefully are improving a bit, but often our wives and our children don't come around quite so quickly. 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:10.000 And I think that's actually almost the principle. 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:19.520 Sometimes our wives are a little more so-quote unquote conservative and staying, you know, on the track in these men are have this radical reforming going on. 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:25.680 And that that's not unusual in families, whether it be in the theological realm or the more practical realm. 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:28.639 Um so how do we navigate these changes? 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:34.240 Now, one of the things you've said, Bill, all the time at Father-Son retreats and different things, you say, Well, you've learned some things here. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:35.919 Be careful how you implement that. 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:36.319 Right. 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:36.719 Yeah. 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.639 You want to you change change can come slowly, right? 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.360 You've got to remember that God does the pruning. 00:02:43.919 --> 00:02:44.960 He uses us. 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:49.280 But it's at the end of the day, I was reading in John chapter 15 this morning. 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:54.479 Uh every branch that does not bear fruit, he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.719 So God's desire is that there's going to be much fruit in this family's life. 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.439 But he's the one that has to do the pruning. 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:03.919 I think he prunes me first. 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:04.800 Don't forget that. 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.319 He's working on this guy. 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:08.240 He's working on you. 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:08.960 That's right. 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:10.639 There's a God is very efficient. 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:13.680 When he's working on one, he's always working on the other. 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:19.919 But don't feel like you've lost an opportunity or there's only so much window that you have. 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:21.840 God knows exactly where you are. 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.919 He knows when you were messed up theologically, and now he knows that you're you're proving theology. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:36.240 But I'd say the best theology is that you realize that you're a sinner, that you're repenting, you're confessing, and that's going to be the best way to get to your son's heart. 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.000 And I think at least humbly confessing that you didn't have it right, that's right. 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.280 And that uh, you know, the word of God is instructing you. 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:48.960 And you're sitting at the feet of Jesus and you're listening to him, and he's teaching you some things. 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:49.199 Right. 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:52.240 And uh you want to share those with your children as well. 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:57.120 And the idea that somehow, you know, I'm learning about parental authority here. 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.120 I'm just gonna impose as much authority as I possibly can upon y'all. 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:02.960 That doesn't go well. 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:07.520 It's better to say I am increasingly under the authority of Jesus. 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:24.639 And and Jesus is telling us that we need to, you know, love our enemies, be kind to those who despitefully use us, and we need to grow in this

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area and that area in our family, and I'm the first one who needs to confess and to grow in these areas. 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:25.759 I think that's what you're saying here. 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:26.639 Yes, yes, yes. 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:29.839 This is God is that's God is gonna help us to do this. 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.120 That we I need first of all to be to be humbled. 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.319 You know, somebody said that there are two types of people in the world. 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:39.120 There are humble people and those who will be humbled. 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:45.120 Well, now you're getting into the second category, you know, and you you're you're moving over to the first group. 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:45.759 Yeah. 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.079 Okay, Todd, your thoughts on on this. 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:59.439 Um, yeah, I really appreciate this this dad's desire to see, you know, his son raised uh in with with you know some some obedience and respect. 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.000 That's that's what he says, and that's that is really important. 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:14.959 Um but underneath that, right, what's going on is a soul that uh that trusts God because otherwise, you know, obedience is just it's just expedient or external. 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:19.600 Yeah, so so there's there's the heart, there's the shepherding of the heart to Christ. 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:20.879 That's fundamental. 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:24.879 And then there's also a relationship between the father and the son here. 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:29.120 Um and you know, sometimes we get these questions and it's hard to know everything. 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:33.040 Maybe there's all that taking place wonderfully, but I think those are very foundational. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:36.800 I mean, we we just don't want to jump to, well, let's fix the behavior. 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.759 Uh we we go, yeah, what's going on in this child's soul? 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:41.680 Is this is the child trusting in God? 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:46.399 Is he is that is the fruit being born out of obedience and respect from that? 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:55.519 And the relationship where the father, if he's confessing, he's he's a sinner, he's saying, I'm confessing, I'm a sinner before God, I have to trust in Jesus, we all have to trust in Christ. 00:05:55.600 --> 00:06:01.839 Um, is that happening which will enable the son to look to his father and to trust him? 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.000 So let's be sure that the bigger picture of gospel shepherding is happening. 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.680 You know, it's not just this, okay, I've just got to make sure you're obeying here. 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:10.240 That's right. 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.920 But be sure that the entire picture of the gospel is understood. 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:21.839 Here's another question that seems to be underlying all of it, which underlies, you know, all of parenting, and that is,

what is it to love a child? 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:22.879 We to love. 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:23.759 We're called to love. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:26.560 And then we talk about tough love, right? 00:06:26.959 --> 00:06:28.800 It's a pretty typical approach. 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:34.319 Uh in God applies a tough love to us because of the discipline that he brings to us. 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:35.600 Got it. 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:42.639 But what is it to love a child, and how do we communicate that to the child day to day? 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:48.720 And I think I think the first question any parent has to ask is, do I really love the child? 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:49.360 Right. 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.040 I mean, you know, be honest about it for a moment, and maybe perhaps you don't. 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:54.800 If you don't, then confess that. 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:59.519 Ask God for help here that he would put the love of God into into you. 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:08.959 And and now you're you know, your child is seeing that love expressed in a hundred different ways, not just in the use of the rod, but other ways as well. 00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:14.319 And I do think the introduction of a fair amount of firmness into the home might be appropriate. 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:26.319 The idea of gentle parenting, we've had a program on this, is uh is that there's not a firmness about the parenting, but ultimately, what do we want in terms of firmness? 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:31.279 Well, a conviction concerning the truth of God's word, uh a fear of God, right? 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:36.959 Blessed is the man who fears the God the the Lord, his seed shall be mighty in the earth, Psalm 112. 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.879 And so I guess the question is: do I fear God? 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:42.319 Do I love God? 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:44.079 Do I love his commandments? 00:07:44.240 --> 00:08:14.800 And am I grieved when my children are being unkind to each other, dishonoring of their mother, and you know, just in these fights and expressing anger all day long, and you see this chaos in the home, this you know, constant violation of the commandments of God, and it's grieving to you because you love God, because you fear God, and and you know, perhaps perhaps weeping a bit in the presence of your children. 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:16.639 Like, why are you weeping, Dad? 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.079 Well, I'm weeping because we're breaking the commandments of God in this home. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.639 We don't love God, and we're not loving each other, and it just causes grief to my heart. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:35.360 I think that would be, you know, the first way in which we express our commitment and our convictions concerning, you know, God and his holy law in our home. 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:41.919 So I guess let's start there and then and then we can work you know into perhaps the application of the rod. 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.799 Your thoughts, Phil? 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:45.519 You know, the there are attributes of God. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:50.799 I when I think of fathering, I think of attributes of God that I want to display for my children. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:56.559 Somebody said that a father is the first look that a child has of who God is, which makes sense to me. 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:03.200 There's two attributes of God that I'm very thankful for: his faithfulness or consistency and his mercy. 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:03.679 Okay. 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.519 And those are the two that I want to emulate in my fatherhood. 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:09.039 Almost like more than anything else. 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:10.799 More more than, you know, love. 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:11.679 There's lots of them. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:13.519 I mean, even gentleness is a great word. 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:18.080 These other people, they they co-op these words and then and then twist it up. 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:25.039 Gentle parenting is good when it's really truly in gentleness, but mercy and consistency. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:35.600 I think one of the most difficult things our children deal with is when we're inconsistent, when the rules change, when we're we do things because we're irritated rather because we're doing things in love. 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.759 And then mercy always triumphs over judgment. 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:44.480 Our children, if I want my every one of my children to to walk away from my home saying, you know, dad was a merciful man. 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:45.759 I remember that. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:47.440 That's what I want them to remember. 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:48.080 Exactly. 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:49.360 Thoughts on this thought. 00:09:49.679 --> 00:10:02.960 You know, I've been you know teaching through the Sermon on the Mount in the evening service, you know, and I and I and it's it's good to see Christ is just so direct, you know, and he he's making it very clear that the heart is how you love. 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:13.679 You know, are we are we are we showing this love to the heart of the child, not just you know to the outward behaviors, but I think what it what this ultimately comes down to is love is is faith. 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.240 It it takes faith on the dad that I look, I can't do this. 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.720 It's I have to, it's God that's gonna do this. 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:22.799 I trust that God will do this. 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:22.960 Right. 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:24.960 And it's faith in the child too. 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:26.960 It's we're trusting God together. 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.360 We're we're looking to God, you know, trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding. 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.360 How how do we teach that to a child? 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:36.960 It's not it's not gentle parenting, it's not, well, you can just do whatever you want. 00:10:37.039

--> 00:10:37.360 No. 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:40.159 How does the father trust in the Lord? 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:53.039 And I think it's ultimately by, which is really the same ideas, fearing God and recognizing that God has given us so much, what he's given us through his son, and how are we now responding to that in faith? 00:10:53.519 --> 00:11:00.720 I want to contrast the strong-willed in-your-face kind of child uh with the complacent child for a moment. 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:06.080 Thankfully, the complacent child is sinless and innocent, and there's no issues. 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:14.720 And so we're just gonna ignore that person and we're gonna move on to the strong-willed, in-your-face kind of disobedient kid in the home, to which you would say that's ridiculous. 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:31.759 Uh because you know, at the end of the day, often the complacent child is doing the best possible to keep you happy while suppressing some of the issues that that may appear in their teenage years or later on the young adult years. 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:33.600 So be careful. 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:34.799 Be careful. 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:40.320 Uh all of our children need Jesus, and all of our children need a measure of corrupted correction. 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.559 I think also the complacent child may actually be the harder child to understand. 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:45.200 Right, right. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.200 You know, under where are they coming from? 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:47.679 Right, right. 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:48.639 Are they hiding something? 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:49.200 What is it? 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:50.000 You've got to dig deeper. 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:55.679 Jesus had 12 disciples, so nobody can say to him, you don't know what it's like to deal with this kind of thing. 00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:56.720 Right, or that kind of thing. 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:58.080 He had 12 different ones. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:05.200 And I'm sure he had a complacent one, he had a Peter, he had somebody else that was quiet, and he had a Judas, all in the same group. 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:10.399 So God is God is ready to meet us wherever we are with with our child. 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:14.480 And so we we must do the best we can to understand each of our children. 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.279 And gentleness, I think, ties into this as well. 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:17.759 Right. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:30.960 Because gentleness, the way I see it, and you know, the praus Greek term for gentleness, meaning using the biblical terminology, uh, a calibration of the grip. 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:32.960 A calibration of the give grip. 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:42.480 There's times at which you do have to, you know, calibrate that gif to that grip to 47 psi versus 3 psi. 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:50.000 You're gripping something just a bit harder than you would a more tender person. 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:50.559 Right. 00:12:50.799 --> 00:13:02.320

And uh, and I say this, of course, metaphorically, it's it's like a robot grip on a heavy rock versus a light wine glass, different ways in which you would treat it. 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:13.600 Uh so calibrating to the strong-willed child, uh calibrating to the complacent child, but still there has to be something of a grip. 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:22.720 There has to be now I'm not talking about control here, I'm just simply talking about truthfully, you know, bringing a message to a child. 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:34.159 A lot of this is truth, expressing truth, saying, you know, you violated God's law in this way, or you're hiding something and you're not really walking in the light right now. 00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.919 And I just want to point that out to you. 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:41.279 You know, this is the way that we want to uh we want to disciple our children. 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:48.559 We want to be sure that everything is on the table, in the light, and we are expressing God's truth to them. 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:53.279 Uh the rod, as I see it, is more so an expression of the law of God. 00:13:53.519 --> 00:14:04.080 You violated God's laws in this area, and then the gospel comes in and says, Yeah, Jesus is here to save us from these sins. 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:06.720 And I I want to present the gospel to you as well. 00:14:06.879 --> 00:14:09.600 Let's pray to Jesus and ask him to help us here. 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:16.240 So I guess it's the full picture that needs to be conveyed, and it may be conveyed in different ways to different children. 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:16.559 Right. 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.799 Yeah. 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:17.519 Yeah. 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:23.200 And you see, you see in the word uh gentleness, uh often near loving kindness. 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:29.759 And so you're gentle out of love, but that calibration you're talking about is very, very important. 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:35.759 And I I think you know, this is this is like to dads out there, this is somewhere where dads go go wrong. 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:38.799 Like they're they're they we all wanna we're very task-oriented. 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:40.879 We wanna we see a problem, we want to address it. 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:47.200 Well, if I'm firmer, if I'm firmer or maybe too strong, it will fix it quicker. 00:14:47.360 --> 00:14:48.639 Yeah, that's not really how it works. 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:54.399 And or you know, and the opposite is if I'm just ah, just do whatever you want to do, well, that's disastrous as well. 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:56.399 And I think we see Christ do this too. 00:14:56.480 --> 00:15:04.960 You know, I was thinking about how um uh in Matthew 6, you know, they're there the disciples are all worried and he says, do not worry. 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.840 And he he doesn't say you have no faith. 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:09.200 He says, You have little faith. 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:11.120 Oh, you have little faith, do not worry. 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:12.559 I mean, even that is gentle. 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:14.799 He could have said, Are you even saved? 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.440 No, he doesn't say he doesn't, he just says, you know, let's let's let's trust God. 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:22.960 Let's grow our faith, let's trust God more and not worry. 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.279 And I think that's how a dad comes alongside. 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:31.840 You know, and and again, John 15 this morning is meditating on this uh the vine and the branches. 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:48.960 And the this analogy is so good because you have this you have this vine or you have this tree and it has all these branches, and God's gonna come in and cut out some of the branches, but it doesn't look better right away, except that the the the you know the dead ones are gone or the ones that aren't doing well, but it takes a while for the fruit to produce. 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.200 So you're just you're just heading down a new path. 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:56.399 What the rod does is redirects the path, but it doesn't fix things right away. 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.159 It's a it's a setting of the heart for a new path that God designs. 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.120 That's what the pruning's for. 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:05.600 Let's talk about the rod for an 11-year-old, 12, 13, 14, 15-year-old. 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:14.159 Um, I think I was 14 or 15 years of age where my dad applied the rod the last time to me. 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:19.519 And I guess the goal is not to have to use the rod. 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:20.639 Absolutely. 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.120 Right? 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.240 I mean, we don't want that. 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:29.200 We would like not to have to use the rod or God using it on us in uh our child raising. 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.519 So what how how do you brothers take that? 00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:37.840 Um I I assume it differs per child. 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.120 Every child's an individual, and we will you know it's a tailor made. 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.159 It's a foolishness calibration, right? 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.879 What foolishness is bound up in the heart of the child. 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.519 The rod of correction will drive it far from them. 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:56.559 So the the child's foolish at 10, 11, 12, 13, you're still using the rod in uh in my opinion. 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.480 And you would just continue to use it. 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.559 As long as they're in the hole. 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:04.160 Yeah, I I mean you're I'm trying to I don't even remember. 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:06.000 I think it was around 13 or 14. 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:08.240 Um each child was different for sure. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.119 I think I had a son that was was a little bit longer. 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.519 He just kept uh on a foolish path. 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:17.680 I'm not saying

that all the foolish, every last drop of foolishness is out. 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:24.000 Uh you know, but you you generally have a path of away from foolishness towards towards wisdom. 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:30.720 But certainly at 11 years old, and boys seem to be more so in this in this category. 00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:42.160 Well, I think the last time I used the rod for uh one of my children was when they uh were egregiously dishonoring to their mother. 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:42.720 Right. 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:48.480 So and that would have been, I'm thinking, 14 somewhere in there. 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.599 There was an egregious level of dishonor to mother. 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.000 Does the is the rod applied at levels of egregiousness? 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:56.720 Does it make sense? 00:17:56.960 --> 00:17:59.279 Yeah, I I would definitely say that. 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:08.559 In fact, even for this this guy reintroducing at 11, I would say at first for the blatant dishonor, blatant disrespect, lying. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.079 That was a big one in my home, too, that where the rod was used. 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.839 Todd, any thoughts on the use of the rod for older children? 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.119 So I think it's it's gonna vary on the family. 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:24.880 I don't think we want you know, there's not a rule, hard and fast rule that whatever this age you stop, this age you start. 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:26.880 But um so it's gonna be different for every family. 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.000 And I think within the family, it's gonna be different for every child. 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.400 Some child children are gonna respond differently. 00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:37.680 I mean, there are there are children that you can you can use the rod and it doesn't it doesn't affect them. 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:39.039 They don't flinch, you know. 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:44.000 They don't I mean the Lord the Lord tells us it's doing something in their heart, so we we need to follow that. 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:44.319 Right. 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:51.200 But you'll see others, I think um we we see others where you can just come alongside and it breaks their heart, you know, and that's all it takes. 00:18:51.359 --> 00:19:00.160 Um but one thing I just will say on this is that I to as much as you can, husband and wife need to have some unity on this because that that can go sideways too, right? 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:04.000 If if one husband or wife are not on the same page on how to go about that. 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.400 So it's a good thing for husband and wife to talk about. 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:06.720 Right. 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:16.559 Um, I mean the father can lead in that, but but may the the marriage unity be one so that the children are approached similarly in times of correction. 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.039 Right. 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:24.640 Also, I think I would recommend that the dad be

more involved in that level of correction versus mom in the later years. 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:25.200 Oh, yeah. 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:25.440 Yes. 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:37.039 Um, nevertheless, it may be that mom and dad should both be there to just exhort and to support one another and to uh to pray with. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:49.119 And remember, we don't isolate the rod from love, from prayer, from gospel, gospel, all that ties right in this idea that it's all law, all regulation, all behavioral modification. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.480 I mean, that that, my friends, is a recipe for disaster. 00:19:52.799 --> 00:20:00.400 If if our child training turns into behavioral modification, then all you're doing is training the external. 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:00.720 Right. 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:09.519 The heart is just completely full of all that green goo, and they get out of the house, and that heart just explodes and green goo goes all over the place. 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:17.440 Let me just say, just a reminder, I think we've said it before, but this is not a time to just be expedient because you're busy with life. 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:35.680 And I was actually, you know, with some with some uh clients, and uh the the child was misbehaving and the child needed to be corrected, but but just to grab the child and you know whack them and and I understood like it was embarrassing and all those things, but of course I'm going like take your time. 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.599 Like this is this is so important in a child's life. 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.960 Just take your time. 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.200 We can we can handle this just to handle it right. 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.279 It's just not a time for expediency, it's a time for love. 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:52.640 What about the guy that comes in from the the other door that he was overdoing the rod and he had bad theology in the use of the rod? 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:58.160 I remember early on I got a hold of that book that said, if the child does this thing, give them three swabs. 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.000 If the child does this, give them eight swabs. 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:02.160 No, and it was nice. 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.680 It was looking my accounting mind said, oh, this is a good way to do it. 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.279 That was not a good way to do it. 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:16.480 Thankfully it didn't last but maybe two two weeks or something that I realized that that was but you might have somebody coming in from the other side that's that's using the rod in a wrong way. 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:16.799 Yes. 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:26.000 And uh we need to make sure, again, this idea of love and and mercy, and the rod is just a tool, but the heart is the real issue. 00:22:50.259 --> 00:22:55.860 Well, let's talk about um maintaining your son's heart through this. 00:22:56.100 --> 00:22:58.180 I think it's uh Proverbs 23. 00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:02.259 We find the father in the book of Proverbs crying out, My son, give me your heart. 00:23:02.340 --> 00:23:04.660 Uh come close, observe my ways. 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:15.220 And so there is something about retaining the heart of your child during this these years and uh even through the corrections. 00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:18.180 And yet at the same time, there's a balance here, right? 00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:23.460 We we're not such people pleasers or child pleasers that that we neglect. 00:23:24.100 --> 00:23:25.220 The God pleasing. 00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:27.700 The God pleasing is fundamental, right? 00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:29.220 That's number one in our home. 00:23:29.539 --> 00:23:29.779 Absolutely. 00:23:30.980 --> 00:23:35.940 We are not child pleasers to the loss of the God pleasing. 00:23:36.019 --> 00:23:38.420 So we fear God first and foremost. 00:23:38.660 --> 00:23:42.660 And our goal in our home is to fear God and keep his commandments. 00:23:45.140 --> 00:23:47.700 But how do we retain the heart of our child, Bill? 00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:50.900 Is there a sense in which sometimes you're losing the heart of the child? 00:23:51.140 --> 00:23:52.819 You want to retain the heart of the child? 00:23:52.900 --> 00:23:54.259 How do you keep the heart of the child? 00:23:54.340 --> 00:23:57.700 Trevor Burrus, I'm humility is always a path. 00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:01.779 Remember, you're you want to be in a place where God's grace is in the home, right? 00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:05.059 Because you need his grace, you need his mercy. 00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:07.460 And he says he gives grace to the humble. 00:24:07.539 --> 00:24:13.059 So when you when you come to your children, especially the boys, and you're just saying, you know what, I've just really messed up. 00:24:13.299 --> 00:24:14.740 Dad just doesn't have it together. 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:17.380 He's got he makes mistakes, he sins. 00:24:17.620 --> 00:24:22.340 You know, there's just there's very few young people that reject that. 00:24:22.580 --> 00:24:24.420 Just like, ah, dad's just a wimp. 00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:26.900 Look at him just confessing his sins over there. 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:37.460 No, I think it you want to draw your children's heart to you, you do it through confession and and and uh crying out to God and just saying, we're in this together. 00:24:37.700 --> 00:24:38.980 We all need God. 00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:42.100 Not I'm not the judge over you needing God. 00:24:42.500 --> 00:24:44.740 And I guess I want to express it this way. 00:24:44.980 --> 00:24:48.980 How do our children pick up the fact that we love them? 00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:51.380 Well, number one, do I love them? 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:56.420 And I'm communicating the fact that I do love them because I think that's a lot of what we're talking about here. 00:24:56.500 --> 00:25:03.460 When the hearts of the fathers turn to the children, children to the fathers, Malachi 4, 6 and Proverbs 23. 00:25:04.100 -->

00:25:06.740 Uh, there has to be some love. 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:14.420 You know, my child must be loving me, I must be loving my child, and somehow we need to communicate that one to another. 00:25:14.660 --> 00:25:16.019 So, Todd, thoughts on that? 00:25:16.100 --> 00:25:17.299 Have you have you thought through that at all? 00:25:17.620 --> 00:25:18.180 It's very important. 00:25:18.259 --> 00:25:30.420 I mean, Jesus, his his his his his biggest warnings uh were, you know, don't be like the Pharisees, don't be this cold-hearted, just outward-looking idea. 00:25:30.580 --> 00:25:34.819 He said, Let the children come to me, you know, sort of this picture of come and sit on my lap. 00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:44.420 So there's that affection, there's that kind of love shown, but it's shown by grace, by I'm I'm a sinner trusting in God uh just like you. 00:25:44.660 --> 00:25:52.500 So I we need to, dads, we need to cultivate that relationship that that Christ is calling us to first. 00:25:52.660 --> 00:26:01.220 I mean, that is the foundation, and it's it's a relationship that I love God because He's loved me, and I can love my children because I'm loved by God in the same way. 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.819 And brothers, I have to say, I think this is the most convicting thing in my life. 00:26:06.180 --> 00:26:17.299 Can I confess this in front of three thousand people or whatever I I'm just not sure that I love my children, I love my wife as I should. 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:20.019 I'm I'm a busy guy. 00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:22.019 Do I invest the time in them? 00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.299 Do I pray for them? 00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:25.940 And that's one reason we're doing this men pray initiative. 00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:26.580 For me. 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.100 We're actually doing it for me, it turns out. 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:28.980 I heard you pray. 00:26:29.299 --> 00:26:30.740 Lord, help me be less selfish. 00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:31.059 Yeah. 00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:32.420 I heard you pray that this morning. 00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:33.140 With the guys. 00:26:33.940 --> 00:26:34.819 On the men pray initiative. 00:26:35.779 --> 00:26:40.900 So, brothers, how do we discern our own love? 00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:44.980 And what are the things that are getting in the way? 00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:50.100 What are the blockages in terms of how we love our children? 00:26:50.420 --> 00:26:57.220 Now, gr yeah, granted, we're we're firm and we say, hey, stop dishonoring mother, start obeying God, believe in Jesus. 00:26:57.380 --> 00:26:59.620 Okay, I gotta get on with life. 00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:02.340 That can't be all there is to it. 00:27:02.580 --> 00:27:02.819 Bill? 00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:08.660 When your children sin, does it irritate you or does it break your heart? 00:27:08.980 --> 00:27:09.620 That's good. 00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:16.100 The more that it just irritates you is you probably have a love of self because they're bothering you. 00:27:16.580 --> 00:27:19.700 Breaks your heart, you have a love of God and you have a love for your child. 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:20.340 It's good. 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:20.660 Yeah. 00:27:20.900 --> 00:27:21.220 Todd. 00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:26.180 And and you know, as dads, we the tyranny of the urgent is always always souls. 00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:31.539 You know, are we thinking, okay, today I've got to fix this, I'm busy today. 00:27:31.779 --> 00:27:36.259 And I I just, you know, what's what's helped me in this is just to think about lasting things. 00:27:36.500 --> 00:27:45.380 Think about I mean, often I have to tell myself, okay, this child's like eight or whatever, but how is how is this gonna look when they're 40? 00:27:45.700 --> 00:27:51.380 And it helps me slow down a little bit and just really set my mind on things above and go, father, help me. 00:27:51.460 --> 00:27:56.259 Like help help me help me teach this child the truth, help me love them right now. 00:27:56.420 --> 00:27:58.340 I don't want to just be a fixer today. 00:27:58.420 --> 00:28:02.259 I want to be a father for for 40 years and love them. 00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:04.580 Yeah, and am I forgiving them? 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:05.380 Yeah. 00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:12.019 Am I you know putting up with a lot of grief from them? 00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:16.340 Am I always coming back to the table? 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:18.100 Am I praying for them? 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:22.420 Right, am I working towards restoring relationships with them? 00:28:23.059 --> 00:28:29.380 Am I doing something to overcome the blockages that tend to rise up in relationships? 00:28:29.539 --> 00:28:30.019 Right. 00:28:30.340 --> 00:28:31.860 Am I spending time with them? 00:28:32.100 --> 00:28:33.620 Am I praying for them? 00:28:33.860 --> 00:28:39.220 Am I um does love bear all things, believe all things, hope all things, endure all things? 00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:42.900 Uh you know, am I rejoicing in the truth? 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:43.299 Right. 00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:45.620 And I think, you know, am I affirming them? 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:47.380 Am I grateful for them? 00:28:47.779 --> 00:28:50.180 Am I expressing that I am grateful for them? 00:28:50.340 --> 00:28:57.779 I these are the sorts of things that keep occurring to me, and I think the Holy Spirit is really convicting me of these things. 00:28:57.860 --> 00:28:59.299 I want to grow in these areas, Bill. 00:29:00.019 --> 00:29:01.140 Are you interruptible? 00:29:01.220 --> 00:29:03.220 We've mentioned that's huge, right? 00:29:03.380 --> 00:29:09.620 And when you're interruptible, you're saying I esteem you as better than myself for the Philippians 2 kind of way. 00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:15.539 When um I'm ready for God to alter my path and alter my direction to help you. 00:29:15.700 --> 00:29:16.819 I'm ready for that. 00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.740 That speaks volumes of love. 00:29:19.059 --> 00:29:19.460 And yeah. 00:29:19.700 -->

00:29:22.740 Another way to say that is be willing to be disturbed. 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:25.620 You know, we have our agenda and our plan for the day. 00:29:26.180 --> 00:29:28.340 How can we be willing it to be disturbed? 00:29:28.420 --> 00:29:31.220 And you talked about affirming, which is so important. 00:29:31.380 --> 00:29:33.700 And I think a lot of us dads forget about that. 00:29:33.940 --> 00:29:35.860 Like, well, they're doing this wrong, let me affix that. 00:29:36.019 --> 00:29:37.539 Oh, they're doing something good, whatever. 00:29:37.700 --> 00:29:43.539 But we have to we have to affirm, we have to encourage, you know, on a on a high ratio level. 00:29:43.700 --> 00:29:46.500 Like, are we affirming and encouraging and building up? 00:29:46.660 --> 00:29:51.620 I mean, that's what we're called to do, and stirring one another up to love and good works and just giving that to our children. 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:55.299 Aaron Powell I sense we've been all over the map on this edition of the program. 00:29:55.620 --> 00:29:55.779 All right. 00:29:56.100 --> 00:29:58.819 Which is okay, because I think we need to be all over the map. 00:29:58.900 --> 00:30:01.700 And we need to we've been trying to get to the heart of the matter. 00:30:02.019 --> 00:30:03.220 I think that's what we're doing here. 00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.700 And I'm not sure we answered this brother's questions. 00:30:06.100 --> 00:30:15.460 We did the best we could, and if there's anything else we could add to this, please just get give us another answer at mail at generation.org, another question at mail at generations.org. 00:30:15.620 --> 00:30:24.340 Um but but I think we wanted to look at the bigger picture of what it is to be a dad and to be like Jesus in our homes. 00:30:24.740 --> 00:30:24.819 Right. 00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:25.620 Be careful. 00:30:25.700 --> 00:30:27.380 Don't implement too fast. 00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:37.059 It introduce the rod again, but do it sparingly at first, and be careful and remember that God is going to do the pruning. 00:30:37.220 --> 00:30:38.500 God will do it over time. 00:30:38.740 --> 00:30:40.900 Eleven years old is still a very young age. 00:30:41.539 --> 00:30:42.740 You've got a lot of time ahead of you. 00:30:42.980 --> 00:30:43.140 Good. 00:30:43.220 --> 00:30:44.580 Does anything else occur to you, Todd? 00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:58.660 Yeah, I again, as we said, you know, to the fathers out there, you know, it starts with our relationship with God, with our trusting, our faith in God, and being willing to, yeah, confess before our families and just come before them. 00:30:59.059 --> 00:31:03.860 Let's all start there and then engage our children and love them towards Christ. 00:31:04.180 --> 00:31:10.500 And grab Ted Tripp stuff, uh, Shepherding a Child's Heart, uh, Lupreolo and Heart of Anger. 00:31:10.660 --> 00:31:12.580 Uh, we've got a lot of that on the website. 00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:15.700 So, friends, um, there's some really good resources out there. 00:31:15.779 --> 00:31:18.580 Um, I'd also recommend Ken Sandy's Peacemaker stuff. 00:31:18.819 --> 00:31:25.299 I mean, the the relationship-oriented materials, be sure you've got four or five of the good ones in your library. 00:31:25.380 --> 00:31:27.140 You've gone over it with your wife. 00:31:27.299 --> 00:31:29.460 And and here's one more thing. 00:31:29.620 --> 00:31:33.299 Um, get resources from various sources. 00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:44.900 Uh one of the things I like to say is, you know, don't become the Ezoite or don't become the follower of the Pearlite, or that that can be that can be a ditch as well. 00:31:44.980 --> 00:31:49.700 So draw in from the Ted Trips, the Lou Priolos, the Ken Sandys. 00:31:49.860 --> 00:31:51.059 Uh, they've done some good stuff. 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:53.700 And all that material available at generations.org. 00:31:53.779 --> 00:32:00.740 Uh, this is Kevin Swanson, Tom Strasser, Bill Roach, inviting you back again next time as we continue to lay down a vision for the next generation. 00:32:10.340 --> 00:32:13.220 This has been a production of the Generations Media Network. 00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:16.580 For more information, go to generations.org/slash media.

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