Reality / Winner의 전체 녹취록

just hit all the right marks, and I found it very charming and a very entertaining film. 00:05:19.029 --> 00:05:31.909 But then old Sweeney kinda hit a slump for a little bit, until her most recent film, The Housemaid, somehow grossed $300 million at the box office. 00:05:32.229 --> 00:05:34.709 And it's already been greenlit for a sequel. 00:05:35.109 --> 00:05:36.949 That is utter insanity. 00:05:36.949 --> 00:05:39.430 This is not a story that needs a sequel, A. 00:05:39.430 --> 00:05:50.709 And B, you and I saw this film and were highly entertained by it, but I don't think I even realized it was a theater release until reading the box office numbers later on. 00:05:50.709 --> 00:05:53.509 And this thing was a massive hit. 00:05:53.509 --> 00:06:07.750 Now, initially I went into her film Reality with super low expectations after we recently saw her in the true crime boxing film, which we will also be covering someday, Christy. 00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:11.829 And I thought she was absolutely terrible in that film. 00:06:11.829 --> 00:06:14.310 Like, really, really bad. 00:06:14.310 --> 00:06:20.149 But spoiler alert, Sydney Sweeney fucking kills it in this role. 00:06:20.149 --> 00:06:27.589 She totally blew me away, and it's seriously the best acting I've ever seen from her in anything. 00:06:27.589 --> 00:06:30.149 She really, really impressed me. 00:06:30.469 --> 00:06:43.990 I had told you that I was listening to a podcast and one of the hosts mentioned um Sydney Sweeney, he really likes her just because of her physical appearance, but he mentioned the movie reality, and everyone was like, wait, what? 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:44.949 You watched that? 00:06:44.949 --> 00:06:47.349 And he's like, Yeah, Sydney Sweeney was awesome in it. 00:06:47.349 --> 00:06:49.669 So I'm glad his review was accurate. 00:06:49.990 --> 00:06:56.709 This film would unfortunately be classified in one of Sweeney's bombs over the past two years, This and Christy. 00:06:56.709 --> 00:07:01.029 I know neither film did very well at the box office at all. 00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:05.669 However, I think reality deserves a second glance from people. 00:07:05.669 --> 00:07:24.069 That was a pretty well-made film, and we'll get into it more in a bit, but it had a lot of the feeling that I was craving from the movie Snowden, and did a very good job of building tension and developing characters with very little to work with. 00:07:24.469 --> 00:07:27.509 Well, let's dig a little into these movies, shall we? 00:07:27.750 --> 00:07:28.469 Absolutely. 00:07:28.469 --> 00:07:34.310 Are you ready to get real about how reality and winner actually got made? 00:07:34.629 --> 00:07:36.629 125 pounds, you guys. 00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:37.750 Flatter me. 00:07:41.990 --> 00:07:43.189 That was on your driver's license. 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:44.149 That's right. 00:07:44.709 --> 00:07:46.469 Okay, well, I lied. 00:07:46.469 --> 00:07:48.469 Don't we all? 00:07:50.469 --> 00:08:07.829 Reality

is a 2023 American film directed by Tina Satter, who co-wrote the screenplay with James Paul Dallas, rescripted almost entirely word for word from the original FBI transcript taken during Reality Winner's initial interrogation. 00:08:07.829 --> 00:08:14.870 The film stars Sidney Sweeney as Reality Winner, with Josh Hamilton and Merchant Davis co-starring. 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:27.909 Reality centers on the FBI interrogation and arrest of Winner that took place on June 3, 2017, at her home in Augusta, Georgia, where she was questioned for roughly an hour by FBI agents R. 00:08:27.909 --> 00:08:30.229 Wallace Taylor and Justin C. 00:08:30.229 --> 00:08:31.189 Garrick. 00:08:31.189 --> 00:08:41.430 Before the film adaptation, director Tina Satter actually turned the interrogation transcript into a verbatim stage play called Is This a Room? 00:08:41.430 --> 00:08:44.950 named after a line spoken during the interrogation. 00:08:45.350 --> 00:08:53.590 And fun fact, that play, it's not only every word that's verbatim, it's every audible breath and cough. 00:08:53.910 --> 00:08:58.070 Wow, that is a crazy amount of attention to detail. 00:08:58.070 --> 00:09:18.070 The play first premiered at The Kitchen in New York City in 2019, then ran off Broadway at the Vineyard Theater before eventually making its way to Broadway at the Lyceum Theater, opening on October 10th, 2021, and closing on November 27th of that same year. 00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:35.509 Because Reality Winner was incarcerated during the early runs and later under supervised release, she was never able to attend the productions in person, but did stay in contact with the creative team and even joined the Broadway Curtain Call remotely on opening night. 00:09:35.830 --> 00:09:45.509 She was actually on house arrest when it was playing in 2021, and it ended like right around the same time that the show did. 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:48.310 So it's pretty unfortunate timing. 00:09:48.710 --> 00:09:54.310 I would be so bummed if someone made a stage play about me and I never got to see it. 00:09:54.629 --> 00:10:01.750 I feel like it's also rare, too, that the writer and director of the play would go on to also write and direct a movie. 00:10:01.750 --> 00:10:04.310 I feel like they usually switch those out. 00:10:04.790 --> 00:10:12.230 Usually they do, but we talked about one not too long ago that did something similar with a few good men and Aaron Sorkin. 00:10:12.230 --> 00:10:17.030 He had written the play and went on to write the film adaptation as well. 00:10:17.030 --> 00:10:26.070 But it is much more rare for someone who wrote and directed the play to also come back to write and direct the film adaptation. 00:10:26.070 --> 00:10:34.710 It's just a very different medium, stage plays and film, so a lot of the time they want to hire someone more familiar with that medium. 00:10:34.710 --> 00:10:42.710 Is This a Room helped draw broader industry attention to Winner's story and eventually led to plans for a screen version. 00:10:42.710 --> 00:11:02.389 As the adaptation moved into development, Satter remained attached to Direct, and in June 2022, it was officially announced that Sidney Sweeney would take on the lead role of Reality Winner, starring alongside Josh Hamilton and Merchant Davis in what would become Satur's feature film directorial debut. 00:11:02.389 --> 00:11:05.190 And I think Satter did a very good job with this film. 00:11:05.190 --> 00:11:07.270 I look forward to her next project. 00:11:07.270 --> 00:11:10.470 If she gets one, I know this one didn't do that well. 00:11:10.470 --> 00:11:25.590 Once cast, Sweeney prepared for the role by studying interviews and communicating directly with Reality Winner through Zoom calls and text messages, allowing her to better understand Winner's speech patterns, mannerisms, and overall personality. 00:11:25.590 --> 00:11:32.870 Sweeney also incorporated some of Winner's publicly shared workouts into her own training as part of her preparation. 00:11:32.870 --> 00:11:41.509 Winner additionally stayed involved throughout the production as well, often consulting with different departments throughout filming to help maintain accuracy. 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:47.030 Did you check out any of Reality Winner's workouts online for this episode, Ashley? 00:11:47.350 --> 00:11:47.990 I did not. 00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:48.710 I should have. 00:11:48.710 --> 00:11:51.590 She is definitely a workout buff. 00:11:51.990 --> 00:12:03.110 Yeah, she's like one of those crossfitters from what I've seen, and seems like she could probably kick my ass and outrun basically everyone I know. 00:12:03.110 --> 00:12:08.550 Filming began in May 2022 and was completed in just 16 days. 00:12:08.550 --> 00:12:22.550 They started by shooting the exterior scenes first, then moved inside to film the interrogation sequences, which were shot mostly in chronological order, which is pretty unusual since most movies are filmed out of sequence. 00:12:22.870 --> 00:12:37.750 I get why you would want to film those in order though, because the mood and tension of what's happening in the scene is going to build based on the questions asked and the dynamics between interrogators and reality winner. 00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:41.590 It would be harder, I imagine, to film that out of order. 00:12:41.910 --> 00:12:56.230 I totally agree, and one advantage this film had going in was that it is a box movie, and for those of you who are not familiar with that term, it is a movie or TV episode that takes place primarily in just one location. 00:12:56.230 --> 00:13:07.190 So the film reality takes place entirely at reality's home and her front yard, allowing for filming chronologically to be a lot more plausible. 00:13:07.190 --> 00:13:23.509 Because in normal productions, they have several different locations that they may have only for a limited time, so they will have to film all of the sequences that are at that location in a single day

or a couple of days, just so they don't have to pay to return to that location later on. 00:13:23.509 --> 00:13:26.550 In a film like this, that's not really an issue. 00:13:26.550 --> 00:13:32.550 Our second film, Winner, takes a very different approach to the same story. 00:13:32.550 --> 00:13:40.230 The film was released in 2024 and directed by Susanna Fogle and written by Fogel and journalist Carrie Howley. 00:13:40.629 --> 00:13:42.230 Oh, Carrie Howley, that's funny. 00:13:42.230 --> 00:13:46.629 One of the books I read for this is actually written by her. 00:13:46.629 --> 00:13:58.070 It didn't have as much information about Reality Winner as I wanted, so I had also supplemented it with Reality Winner's autobiography, which she just released in September. 00:13:58.470 --> 00:14:09.110 The film stars Amelia Jones as Reality Winner, alongside Connie Britton, Danny Ramirez, Catherine Newton, and Zack Galifanakis in supporting roles. 00:14:09.110 --> 00:14:16.150 I never thought we would talk about Zack Galifanakis in two separate episodes in this podcast. 00:14:16.150 --> 00:14:21.350 He was also the star of the film Masterminds, which we covered a few seasons back. 00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:25.030 We don't get a lot of comedies on this show, believe it or not. 00:14:25.030 --> 00:14:41.830 While the film Reality focuses almost entirely on the interrogation itself, Winner expands outward, telling a broader biographical story that explores her upbringing, Air Force service, and the events that ultimately led to the intelligence leak. 00:14:41.830 --> 00:14:54.870 Fogle has described the film as a coming-of-age story about a regular young woman trying to figure out what the right thing to do is, even when that choice could turn her life completely upside down. 00:14:55.270 --> 00:15:00.470 Reality Winner was a crypto-linguist for the Air Force and NSA. 00:15:00.470 --> 00:15:03.910 She also knows several Middle Eastern languages. 00:15:03.910 --> 00:15:07.350 I would not call her a regular young woman. 00:15:07.670 --> 00:15:10.629 You know what, you make a very good point there. 00:15:10.629 --> 00:15:24.230 Fogel said that at first, Reality Winner was just another name she had seen in the news, but years later she read journalist Carrie Howley's long-form New York magazine profile, Who is Reality Winner? 00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:29.030 Which eventually became the basis for the screenplay that Howley later co-wrote. 00:15:29.030 --> 00:15:38.870 For the film, Fogel reunited with actor Amelia Jones, whom she had previously directed in the 2017 psychological thriller Cat Person. 00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:52.070 After being cast, Jones spent time preparing for the role through extensive research, including traveling to meet Winner in person so she could better understand her life, personality, and experiences. 00:15:52.550 --> 00:15:57.430 And then when I read the script, the script was quite funny, and I was a bit shocked. 00:15:57.430 --> 00:16:06.150

And then when I was able to go fly to Kingsville to meet her, I understood why the script was funny because she's a hilarious person. 00:16:06.150 --> 00:16:11.110 And um yeah, I uh I had a really good time getting to know her on a personal level. 00:16:11.110 --> 00:16:24.310 I got to meet all her animals that she rescued, and I got to do her CrossFit class and her yoga class, and I had loads of questions to ask her, but I also got to know her and I think it was perfect, really, because that's what we're trying to do with this film. 00:16:24.310 --> 00:16:29.750 We're trying to humanize reality and show people that she's so much more than just a name and a headline. 00:16:30.470 --> 00:16:42.070 It must have been so weird for a reality winner meeting and working closely with these two actresses that are going to play her in two different movies that came out right around the same time. 00:16:42.389 --> 00:16:44.710 The timing of this is pretty crazy. 00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:52.550 She most likely got a call from Sidney Sweeney and just a few months later was talking to Amelia Jones. 00:16:52.550 --> 00:17:02.389 Two films about your life coming out so close together like this must have been a very strange, surreal experience for reality. 00:17:02.790 --> 00:17:05.430 And so close to getting out of prison, too. 00:17:05.430 --> 00:17:15.909 Like that's a really tough time when you're trying to readjust to normal life, and now her life isn't normal because Hollywood is breaking down her door. 00:17:16.470 --> 00:17:23.269 Other cast members also did their own preparation by connecting with the real people they were portraying in the story. 00:17:23.269 --> 00:17:36.869 Connie Britton and Catherine Newton both spoke with their real-life counterparts and apparently would call them before specific filming days to understand exactly what they were feeling when the events had happened. 00:17:36.869 --> 00:17:54.069 Winner herself also spoke with the filmmakers and shared details from her experiences, though she has said that she does not plan on ever watching any movies about her own story, and would rather people focus on the bigger issues behind the case instead. 00:17:54.069 --> 00:17:58.949 So she most likely didn't even see these movies after all of that. 00:17:58.949 --> 00:18:09.429 Filming for Winter took place in Winnipeg, Canada, and other locations across Manitoba, and production wrapped on November 21st, 2022. 00:18:09.429 --> 00:18:19.349 Alright, Ashley, should we open the last file of season 5 and see how reality and winner present the evidence on screen? 00:18:19.589 --> 00:18:22.470 Yep, I have my magnifying glass ready. 00:18:35.109 --> 00:18:49.589 Winner opens with Reality Winner, played by Amelia Jones, being escorted away and handcuffed by federal agents, as she introduces herself through a voiceover, admitting that most people have probably never heard of her. 00:18:49.589 --> 00:18:56.629 The film then flashes back to Kingsville,

Texas in 2001, when Reality was only nine years old. 00:18:56.629 --> 00:19:08.869 Little Reality is in the midst of helping pick out a puppy for her older sister Brittany's birthday, along with her mother Billy, played by Connie Britton, and her father Ron, played by Zack Galifanakis. 00:19:08.869 --> 00:19:24.629 Despite his children's rousing glee at the prospect of owning one of the lovable furballs, Ron still has ethical objections to buying a puppy from a pet store and proceeds to explain exactly what a puppy mill is to his two young daughters. 00:19:25.029 --> 00:19:27.029 They gotta learn sometime, I guess. 00:19:27.429 --> 00:19:44.470 Utterly distraught by the thought of the remaining dogs being left behind to potentially be euthanized, reality impulsively opens up all of the cages, releasing a playful pack of pint-sized puppies into the mall as her father looks on approvingly from the sidelines. 00:19:45.189 --> 00:19:50.789 If I was at that mall and I saw that, I would scoop up one of those pups and leave the store. 00:19:51.109 --> 00:19:54.869 It was very adorable chaos that she started, I will say that. 00:19:54.869 --> 00:19:58.789 However, I don't think you would have grabbed one of these dogs because they were all huskies. 00:19:58.789 --> 00:20:04.309 And huskies can be a handful, and you have talked me out of purchasing one before. 00:20:04.309 --> 00:20:16.869 Unfortunately, reality's rebellious rescue results in her family being unable to purchase a dog that day, causing tensions between the family later that evening during Britney's birthday celebration. 00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:21.669 I mean, yeah, she now has zero presence because the dog was supposed to be their present. 00:20:22.149 --> 00:20:26.629 This is a recurring theme between reality and Britney. 00:20:26.629 --> 00:20:32.230 Reality seems to ruin a lot of things for her older sister. 00:20:32.230 --> 00:20:50.869 Over cake, we learn that Billy works as a social worker, while Ron is a self-proclaimed unemployed writer, still dealing with the lingering effects from an injury he sustained years earlier by regularly consuming prescription pain medication like Tic-Tacks to help manage his discomfort. 00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:55.269 And clarifying question: Billy and Ron are married at this point? 00:20:55.750 --> 00:20:57.829 Yes, they are married at this point. 00:20:57.829 --> 00:21:01.349 It's not outright stated, but it is implied, I guess. 00:21:01.750 --> 00:21:03.109 Because they live together. 00:21:03.429 --> 00:21:07.029 Yes, they are all living under the same roof at this time. 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:17.109 The next morning, as reality and her sister are watching cartoons, their program is suddenly interrupted by breaking news coverage of the September 11th attacks. 00:21:17.109 --> 00:21:23.189 The entire family soon gathers together watching the events unfold in stunned silence. 00:21:23.189 --> 00:21:32.470 The following day, while target shooting with her

father, reality asks why the United States can't just talk to the terrorists to find a resolution. 00:21:32.470 --> 00:21:48.949 Ron tries to explain that when people don't speak the same language, they often can't understand each other, an idea that sticks with reality, prompting an early interest in learning other languages so that she can one day understand both sides of global conflicts. 00:21:48.949 --> 00:21:51.429 The story then jumps ahead to H. 00:21:51.429 --> 00:21:51.669 M. 00:21:51.669 --> 00:22:01.349 King High School in 2008, where a staunch Air Force recruiter is speaking to a shop class full of slack jawed teenagers, along with reality. 00:22:01.349 --> 00:22:05.429 During the recruiter's spiel, he incorrectly states that Iraq was. 00:22:05.429 --> 00:22:08.549 Responsible for the September 11th attacks. 00:22:08.549 --> 00:22:21.029 So reality quickly chimes in to challenge the claim and speak a little pashtu, showcasing both her knowledge and research into Afghanistan as well as her fluency in Iranian languages. 00:22:21.029 --> 00:22:38.549 After class, the recruiter expresses interest in harnessing reality skills into a career in the Air Force, but reality shows little interest in military recruitment at first, being far more interested in focusing on her volunteer work while getting ready to attend Texas AM in the fall. 00:22:38.549 --> 00:22:52.549 Later on, reality gets a call from a female Air Force recruiter who speaks to her on a more personal level by explaining exactly how reality's language skills could make a real difference helping civilians in conflict zones. 00:22:52.549 --> 00:23:04.710 The recruiter's words seem to resonate with reality, and over the next few days, she becomes increasingly frustrated by the rampantly casual racism she keeps noticing throughout her community. 00:23:05.109 --> 00:23:08.470 Did you ever have military recruiters come to your school? 00:23:08.789 --> 00:23:11.750 I don't think they ever came to my school. 00:23:11.750 --> 00:23:20.710 I remember seeing them at malls and things like that, but no, I don't think we ever had a recruiter come into class and like pitch the idea of joining the military to us, did you? 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:30.309 We didn't have them come into class, but a few times I uh vaguely remember them having like a table set up in the cafeteria for lunch. 00:23:30.309 --> 00:23:33.429 And I don't really like the idea of that. 00:23:33.750 --> 00:23:38.309 Now that you mention it, I think my school did have something like that. 00:23:38.309 --> 00:23:48.869 Like they didn't come in and speak to people, but I'm pretty sure they did have a table outside of the cafeteria with pamphlets and a recruiter there to speak to anyone interested. 00:23:48.869 --> 00:23:50.309 And yeah, I totally agree. 00:23:50.309 --> 00:23:55.269 The army should not be out here trying to recruit kids in high school. 00:23:55.669 --> 00:24:08.389 The argument for it, I guess, could be that it

can open doors and give people a career that might need to take a more unconventional career route for whatever reason. 00:24:08.389 --> 00:24:17.669 But I also feel like 16, 17, 18, even 20-year-old people, you don't fully understand what you're signing up for. 00:24:18.069 --> 00:24:19.269 I totally agree. 00:24:19.269 --> 00:24:28.710 This seems like something that teenagers would join while not fully understanding all that it would entail. 00:24:29.189 --> 00:24:33.829 Especially in situations where they offer like a huge signing bonus. 00:24:34.230 --> 00:24:49.429 When I was a teenager, my decision-making skills were pretty impulsive and not very researched, so I think a lot of people get recruited in similar circumstances where they don't fully grasp what they are getting themselves into. 00:24:49.429 --> 00:24:50.549 However, I could be wrong. 00:24:50.549 --> 00:24:56.149 I know a lot of people out there are in the military, and if you have a different point of view, we'd welcome to hear it. 00:24:56.149 --> 00:25:01.669 Back at home, Brittany is preparing to announce her engagement during a family dinner that evening. 00:25:01.669 --> 00:25:12.869 But just as the family is settling down into some casual conversation around the table, reality suddenly cuts in to announce her own impulsively life-changing decision. 00:25:12.869 --> 00:25:16.069 Brittany, how is your job at the lab? 00:25:16.470 --> 00:25:17.589 Oh, it's good. 00:25:17.589 --> 00:25:20.629 It's part-time, so I still have time to study. 00:25:20.629 --> 00:25:23.109 And I really can't drop below an A-. 00:25:23.109 --> 00:25:29.349 Um want to get that internship with the microbiologist that Taylor already has that he got freshman year. 00:25:29.669 --> 00:25:35.750 There is actually only one problem that you might think that she's too cute to be a scientist. 00:25:35.750 --> 00:25:39.750 I mean, maybe he just likes hot interns, right? 00:25:39.750 --> 00:25:41.109 He chose me. 00:25:41.669 --> 00:25:42.389 Oh my god. 00:25:42.389 --> 00:25:45.189 So I joined the Air Force. 00:25:45.189 --> 00:25:47.750 Boot camp starts the day after I graduate. 00:25:47.750 --> 00:25:48.710 Really? 00:25:48.710 --> 00:25:50.949 You can say that right now. 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:53.750 She's joking. 00:25:53.750 --> 00:25:55.750 It's a joke, right? 00:25:55.750 --> 00:25:59.029 The military has no humanities. 00:25:59.029 --> 00:26:00.549 You you realize that, right? 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:03.189 No literature, no, no philosophy. 00:26:03.509 --> 00:26:05.029 I can read all that stuff on my own. 00:26:05.189 --> 00:26:07.349 I don't think you understand the full context of what you're doing. 00:26:07.669 --> 00:26:13.349 The full context is I'm not spending another four years in a hick term full of racists who don't care about humanity. 00:26:13.349 --> 00:26:14.949 And I already signed the contract. 00:26:14.949 --> 00:26:17.750 Basic training, language school, Afghanistan. 00:26:17.750 -->

00:26:19.029 It's done. 00:26:20.949 --> 00:26:25.109 Speaking of contracts, we're getting married. 00:26:25.109 --> 00:26:31.109 Oh two comments. 00:26:31.269 --> 00:26:34.629 I love how they're both trying to one-up each other. 00:26:34.629 --> 00:26:37.750 That really seems like what the sisters are doing here. 00:26:37.750 --> 00:26:41.189 And man, great call on the casting. 00:26:41.189 --> 00:26:43.829 They look like they actually could be related. 00:26:44.230 --> 00:26:54.629 Seriously, Catherine Newton and Amelia Jones in this film, they have very similar hair colors, and their facial features even are remarkably similar as well. 00:26:54.629 --> 00:26:58.470 It was a very good casting choice for these two to play sisters. 00:26:58.470 --> 00:27:11.189 After completing basic training, Reality spends the next two years in language school, studying Farsi and Dari, before later being assigned to Fort Meade, Maryland in 2011. 00:27:11.189 --> 00:27:25.109 There, she begins working in a large open office lined with cubicles similar to a call center, where she is tasked with monitoring and translating intercepted Taliban communications from Afghanistan. 00:27:25.109 --> 00:27:31.990 Though the work is tedious and repetitive, reality nevertheless quickly excels in her new position. 00:27:32.470 --> 00:27:46.949 Even though it is not what she hoped for or expected, she really, really, really wanted to be deployed overseas, and unfortunately, the recruiters neglected to tell her that linguists typically do not have that career trajectory. 00:27:47.349 --> 00:27:53.109 Snowden also wanted to be sent overseas, but did not get to go to where he wanted. 00:27:53.109 --> 00:28:01.029 And I think people need to realize if you join the military, you don't have any control over where they are going to be sending you. 00:28:01.349 --> 00:28:10.230 One thing that Snowden and Reality Winner have in common is that they both got into this career because of 9-11. 00:28:10.230 --> 00:28:18.230 They were deeply impacted by that, and a desire to help people that they viewed as vulnerable and needing of aid. 00:28:18.629 --> 00:28:22.549 But beyond that, those two do not have very much in common. 00:28:22.549 --> 00:28:35.269 I know you and I have discussed reality off-mic quite a few times, and she's a little firecracker, and Snowden has a much more, let's call it, monotone personality. 00:28:35.269 --> 00:28:42.949 So beyond their NSA work and leaking confidential information, I don't think these two have a tremendous amount in common. 00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:44.069 No, they don't. 00:28:44.069 --> 00:28:49.909 We'll get into this a little bit later, but even how they leak the documents is starkly different. 00:28:50.309 --> 00:29:04.949 One night, while working the graveyard shift, reality intercepts a live transmission indicating an imminent attack, which she then relays to her superiors, leading to a counter-strike, resulting in multiple civilian casualties. 00:29:04.949 --> 00:29:17.189 Though situations such as this are considered part of the job, reality is still unsettled by the thought of her actions directly contributing to the loss of innocent lives. 00:29:17.189 --> 00:29:29.109 As a coping mechanism, reality begins channeling her emotions into intense CrossFit workouts, along with extra volunteer work at the Henley Hills Assisted Living Facility. 00:29:29.109 --> 00:29:40.949 One afternoon, while walking home, Reality impulsively drops in for a drink at a local watering hole, where she meets a handsome bartender named Andre, played by Danny Ramirez. 00:29:40.949 --> 00:29:51.909 As it turns out, Andre regularly attends the same CrossFit classes as Reality, but she has always been so focused on her own workouts that she never even noticed him. 00:29:51.909 --> 00:30:02.789 The two soon begin chit-chatting for a bit as Andre shares his ambitions of returning to school someday to become a veterinarian, which reality finds exceptionally appealing. 00:30:03.349 --> 00:30:05.029 She is an animal lover. 00:30:05.509 --> 00:30:06.710 She sure is. 00:30:06.710 --> 00:30:08.789 She does a lot of volunteer work. 00:30:08.789 --> 00:30:12.470 She works with the elderly, she works at animal shelters. 00:30:12.789 --> 00:30:19.990 At one point, she even signed up to help push kids in wheelchairs during marathons. 00:30:20.389 --> 00:30:27.269 She honestly seems like a generally good person who just wanted to help others. 00:30:27.269 --> 00:30:39.029 That week, after another CrossFit session together, Andre asks Reality Out for an impromptu hang sesh, leading to an evening of burgers and bonding in Andre's Chevy and Paula. 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:43.269 Have you volunteered at an animal shelter? 00:30:43.269 --> 00:30:45.269 Because vet schools want that. 00:30:45.909 --> 00:30:49.669 No, but I do watch a lot of like vet TV shows. 00:30:49.669 --> 00:30:51.109 I watched this one called um Dr. 00:30:51.109 --> 00:30:51.990 Chris Petbet. 00:30:51.990 --> 00:30:54.549 You know, it's this guy that's uh a vet in Australia. 00:30:54.549 --> 00:30:54.949 Uh-huh. 00:30:54.949 --> 00:30:55.429 You've seen it? 00:30:55.509 --> 00:30:56.309 Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. 00:30:56.389 --> 00:30:56.869 Do you watch it? 00:30:56.869 --> 00:31:02.389 Like people walk in with like animals like Katie in the second, and they're like, Mike, do you know anything about mall soupils? 00:31:02.389 --> 00:31:04.789 My pit wombat's been bit by Fawn Stiles. 00:31:04.869 --> 00:31:05.669 Yeah, hoy might. 00:31:05.669 --> 00:31:09.189 Can you can you get this poison dot shooting shrimp out of me, Garrett? 00:31:12.230 --> 00:31:13.669 You sound like a pirate. 00:31:13.909 --> 00:31:15.189 A hoymite. 00:31:15.189 --> 00:31:20.629 So Danny Ramirez is kind of having a little moment. 00:31:20.629 --> 00:31:23.349 He was in the last season of The Last of Us. 00:31:23.349 --> 00:31:25.109 I cannot recall who he was. 00:31:25.109 -->

00:31:28.629 He's not Pedro Pascal's brother, and he was only in four episodes. 00:31:28.629 --> 00:31:33.909 So I'm not sure if he was someone at the camp they were at or if he's on the bad side. 00:31:33.909 --> 00:31:40.069 But he is also reuniting with Pedro Pascal for a movie called De Noche. 00:31:40.069 --> 00:31:44.949 And it is the movie, Remy, that has had a bit of a sordid production. 00:31:44.949 --> 00:31:50.789 Walking Phoenix was initially attached and apparently demanded to have the script rewritten. 00:31:50.789 --> 00:31:53.669 So it was very graphic. 00:31:53.669 --> 00:31:57.109 It's about two men that fall in love and flee to Mexico. 00:31:57.109 --> 00:32:12.309 And apparently, Walking Phoenix just wrote these crazy scenes in it that ended up being too much for him, and he just suddenly dropped out, and the movie was in limbo for a while until Pedro Pascal signed on recently and has saved it. 00:32:12.789 --> 00:32:16.710 I knew I recognized this actor from something. 00:32:16.710 --> 00:32:22.230 I thought he was the blue beetle in that movie at first, but that is not who this actor is at all. 00:32:22.230 --> 00:32:25.829 However, I do remember him from The Last of Us, and he was good in that show. 00:32:25.829 --> 00:32:30.549 And I'm actually looking forward to that film he is making with Pedro Pascal. 00:32:30.549 --> 00:32:32.949 I know there was a lot of controversy surrounding it. 00:32:32.949 --> 00:32:46.629 However, him and Pedro, I think, will do a remarkable job, and I'm very interested in seeing the finished product, especially after Joaquin Phoenix was so bashful about partaking in the production. 00:32:46.629 --> 00:32:57.990 Later that night, Reality convinces Andre to help liberate a neglected dog that has been left outside in the freezing cold and snow for the past several days. 00:32:57.990 --> 00:33:11.109 Once freed, reality decides to keep the canine and is extremely turned on by Andre's humane heroics, leading to both reality and the dog staying overnight at his place. 00:33:11.109 --> 00:33:24.389 The following morning, Andre learns that reality isn't just a nickname like he had originally assumed, but rather her actual given name, chosen by her father before she was born. 00:33:24.389 --> 00:33:33.189 I honestly was expecting a bit more of a story during this scene, but that's literally all she says is that it's her real name and her dad picked it out for her. 00:33:33.509 --> 00:33:34.389 I have the story. 00:33:34.389 --> 00:33:35.750 Do you want it now or later? 00:33:36.069 --> 00:33:36.949 Let's go with now. 00:33:36.949 --> 00:33:38.069 I'm curious. 00:33:38.389 --> 00:33:42.549 So, Ron and Billy have two daughters. 00:33:42.549 --> 00:33:46.789 Billy got to choose the name for their first daughter, Brittany. 00:33:46.789 --> 00:33:51.349 And part of the deal was that Ron got to choose the name of their second child. 00:33:51.349 --> 00:33:58.710 And Ron really wanted his children to succeed and lead a successful life that he hadn't. 00:33:58.710 --> 00:34:05.750 And one day in Lama's class, he saw a woman wearing a shirt saying, You coached a real winner. 00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:12.470 And he thought the name Reality Winner would help emulate the success that he wanted for her. 00:34:12.789 --> 00:34:18.389 So her dad literally just saw it on a t-shirt one day and said, Yep, that's my daughter's name. 00:34:18.710 --> 00:34:21.110 From what I could tell, yeah, that's it. 00:34:21.429 --> 00:34:25.429 Well, when inspiration strikes, who are we to deny it? 00:34:25.429 --> 00:34:35.750 On the day of her sister Brittany's wedding, their father Ron misses the rehearsal dinner and arrives late to the ceremony, visibly loopy and overly medicated. 00:34:36.069 --> 00:34:39.670 God, my mom would kill my dad if he did that. 00:34:40.069 --> 00:34:53.829 Yeah, it's pretty tragic seeing him come in, and he still desperately wants to be a part of the wedding, but he's in no condition to do so, so they just kind of have to keep him in the back room for the most part, away from everyone. 00:34:53.829 --> 00:35:02.309 And you can tell he's very saddened by this, like he wanted to be a part of it, but his demons and his addiction are getting the better of him. 00:35:02.309 --> 00:35:13.349 During the reception, reality also learns that her parents have decided to separate, adding another layer of emotion to what was already a tense family gathering. 00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:32.549 Two years later, Reality and Andre are living together, and her life has settled into a steady routine of intelligence work, intense workouts, occasional intermingling, and often attempting to subdue her own conscience from the mounting moral compromises tied to her current occupation. 00:35:32.549 --> 00:35:48.630 One evening, while watching television together, a breaking news report interrupts the broadcast, announcing that Edward Snowden has been identified as the person behind the NSA Leak of Classified Documents, exposing America's Global Surveillance Program. 00:35:49.029 --> 00:35:53.269 This is really all reality winner knew about Snowden? 00:35:53.269 --> 00:36:05.190 I didn't know this, but apparently, if you have security clearance, you are not allowed to go on the internet and look up information that is related to security breaches. 00:36:05.190 --> 00:36:10.309 If it's discovered that you have done that, you can get your security clearance taken away. 00:36:10.309 --> 00:36:21.989 So how this played out later at her trial is her lawyers that had security clearance, only one of them did, the other ones were trying to get it, and I think eventually did or were still waiting by the time she pled. 00:36:21.989 --> 00:36:23.110 Spoiler alert. 00:36:23.110 --> 00:36:27.670 But they couldn't even Google the document that she was accused of leaking. 00:36:27.989 --> 00:36:35.349 But I just couldn't imagine working at a job with such strange, strict guidelines.

00:36:35.829 --> 00:36:37.509 I don't even think it does make sense. 00:36:37.509 --> 00:36:48.630 If it's on the news and all over the internet, it's not like you're violating anything or risking national security by seeking more information about what's already out there. 00:36:49.029 --> 00:36:59.989 That is true, but I'm assuming that they want people to only be looking into the information that they are supposed to be looking into and not anything else. 00:36:59.989 --> 00:37:03.989 Like, stay focused on your task, and that is it. 00:37:03.989 --> 00:37:23.989 As time passes, reality begins to consider alternative career options once her military service has been completed, and is flabbergasted to learn of the exceedingly high starting salary for an NSA contractor, somewhere in the realm of $150,000 a year. 00:37:23.989 --> 00:37:36.469 Even so, Reality chooses to spend the majority of her efforts on applying to various humanitarian organizations, preferring to pursue work that would allow her to help more people directly. 00:37:36.469 --> 00:37:46.630 Eventually, Reality receives an invitation to interview with the nonprofit organization Friends Across the World for a potential position in Pakistan. 00:37:46.630 --> 00:38:00.949 Overcome with joy at the prospect of finally working in the Middle East like she had always dreamed, Reality impulsively quits her surveillance job, causing a severe rift in her and Andre's relationship, ultimately ending in the couple's breakup. 00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:02.949 Wait, isn't she still with the Air Force? 00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:04.069 How could she just quit? 00:38:04.389 --> 00:38:06.869 It's a little murky the way the film presents it. 00:38:06.869 --> 00:38:14.549 It seems like she is applying to these jobs, and her service is basically almost up by the time she's applying to this job. 00:38:14.549 --> 00:38:22.549 So when they call her in for the interview, I just assumed her service had been completed at that point and she was just staying around for the paycheck. 00:38:22.549 --> 00:38:24.789 But it is a little unclear. 00:38:24.789 --> 00:38:38.469 Now, more ready than ever to leave her old life behind, Reality travels to Seattle for the nonprofit organization's initial interview, which unfortunately does not go as she had planned. 00:38:39.269 --> 00:38:41.269 You have a fascinating resume. 00:38:41.269 --> 00:38:43.429 The volunteer section goes on for pages. 00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:46.869 Well, it's recycle paper, so thought I'd be thorough. 00:38:46.869 --> 00:38:53.269 Well, um, there's just one thing I need to clear up, just to check that box before I send your paperwork through. 00:38:53.269 --> 00:38:55.509 There's just a small mistake on the application. 00:38:55.829 --> 00:38:56.789 Oh, sorry about that. 00:38:56.789 --> 00:38:57.429 What is it? 00:38:57.670 --> 00:39:00.230 Well, in the space for college degree, you wrote Air Force. 00:39:00.230 --> 00:39:03.509 So I'll just have to correct that and put your undergraduate information here. 00:39:03.750 --> 00:39:06.150 Well, actually, I went straight to basic training out of high school. 00:39:07.190 --> 00:39:07.429 Ms. 00:39:07.509 --> 00:39:11.110 Winner, you are aware that this job requires a four-year degree? 00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:19.190 Yeah, I did see that, but I figured since I spent those years in the Air Force learning languages, they don't even teach a Texas AM. 00:39:19.989 --> 00:39:22.630 But the military isn't college. 00:39:22.630 --> 00:39:25.829 You're really telling me I need a degree to hand out blankets? 00:39:25.829 --> 00:39:26.230 Well. 00:39:26.230 --> 00:39:28.710 We do much more than hand out blankets, of course. 00:39:28.710 --> 00:39:30.309 We think through problems. 00:39:30.309 --> 00:39:32.069 Just like we do in the military. 00:39:32.069 --> 00:39:33.829 Life or death problems. 00:39:33.829 --> 00:39:36.230 I'm just saying we have a protocol. 00:39:36.469 --> 00:39:40.150 They they they told me I could do my time in the military and then work in a refugee camp. 00:39:40.389 --> 00:39:41.110 Who told you? 00:39:41.110 --> 00:39:41.909 The recruiter. 00:39:41.909 --> 00:39:42.949 Which recruiter? 00:39:42.949 --> 00:39:44.069 Someone from here? 00:39:44.069 --> 00:39:45.909 No, the Air Force. 00:39:45.909 --> 00:39:51.269 I understand you're disappointed, and I please take all the time you need. 00:39:52.069 --> 00:39:55.110 And this is a real problem she encountered. 00:39:55.110 --> 00:40:09.190 She didn't go to college, but she spent two years in intensive training, learning very unique languages, and got a whole slew of real-world hands-on experience that no other applicant will have. 00:40:09.190 --> 00:40:18.630 But because she doesn't have a BA or BS by her name, she was just shut out from all these positions that she was well qualified for. 00:40:19.029 --> 00:40:34.389 And I do think that this is another aspect that many teenagers might not realize, thinking going into basic training and a career in the military could count as a college degree later on when it is considered something separate. 00:40:34.789 --> 00:40:39.190 I wonder why she could have qualified for the GI bill. 00:40:39.190 --> 00:40:52.389 Maybe her prison sentence disqualifies her from that now, but I know several people who have done time in the military and then use funds from the GI bill to later complete a college degree, and it pays for a good chunk of it. 00:40:52.710 --> 00:41:01.110 It still has to be a bit of a bummer to go through everything and then realize you need to start college after going through the military. 00:41:01.110 --> 00:41:09.829 Now, with no job and nowhere else to go, Reality must move back in with her mother until she can get back on her feet again. 00:41:09.829 --> 00:41:21.509 While spending some time target shooting with her father one day, reality learns that Ron has been avoiding treatment for his recurring heart condition due to

lack of health insurance coverage. 00:41:21.509 --> 00:41:32.150 Because of this, Reality reluctantly decides to pursue a position as an NSA contractor in order to help pay for her father's medical bills. 00:41:32.150 --> 00:41:40.630 The story then flashes forward to Georgia in 2017, where Reality is about to begin her first day on the job at the NSA. 00:41:40.630 --> 00:41:55.029 Though the job is mentally stimulating and pays very well, Reality must endure hours upon hours of 24-hour news stations playing as a constant backdrop whenever she is in the office. 00:41:55.029 --> 00:41:59.269 This would drive me absolutely fucking crazy. 00:41:59.590 --> 00:42:01.590 So I left this out of my part. 00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:04.309 It's not the news coverage that upset her. 00:42:04.309 --> 00:42:07.750 It was the NSA was playing Fox News. 00:42:07.750 --> 00:42:16.389 And reality winner, spoiler alert, did not vote for Donald Trump and disagreed with much of his politics and policies. 00:42:16.389 --> 00:42:23.110 And in the human resources rules, the NSA was supposed to be like politically neutral. 00:42:23.110 --> 00:42:33.750 And so she complained that her facility was violating that policy by putting on news shows that were right wing instead of more in the middle like they should have been. 00:42:33.750 --> 00:42:39.829 And I would lose my mind if I had to listen to Fox News for 10 plus hours a day. 00:42:40.150 --> 00:42:55.110 Yeah, my apology to any Fox News fans out there, but I primarily consider that sort of thing to just be propaganda to get people worked up about certain issues while having them ignore other issues. 00:42:55.110 --> 00:42:56.869 It's just my personal belief. 00:42:56.869 --> 00:42:59.989 I do not watch any 24-hour news stations. 00:42:59.989 --> 00:43:05.349 In fact, I primarily avoid the news because it's very bad on my mental health. 00:43:05.349 --> 00:43:12.630 But Fox News is definitely the worst channel you could have playing at your job all day, every day. 00:43:12.949 --> 00:43:19.750 Well, especially during that time, right after the 2016 election, like the whole country was so divided. 00:43:20.069 --> 00:43:29.429 Seriously, I quit Facebook around this time because the content that was showing up on my newsfeed was just getting me angry. 00:43:29.429 --> 00:43:40.949 And it really does seem like this was a period of time when there was a lot of anger and a lot of conflict in the country between the left and the right. 00:43:40.949 --> 00:43:45.750 Not that much has changed, but it seems to really have kicked off around this time. 00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:53.349 Despite the annoyance, reality does her best to just stay focused and do her job day after day. 00:43:53.349 --> 00:44:05.190 This strategy seemingly works, at least for a while, until one day when reality can't help but catch a news clip from an interview with Donald Trump dismissing rampant allegations of Russian. 00:44:05.190 --> 00:44:09.349 Interference in the 2016 presidential election. 00:44:09.349 --> 00:44:20.150 Letting her curiosity get the better of her, Reality decides to dig a little deeper by using her own authorized access to personally investigate the issue. 00:44:20.150 --> 00:44:32.389 Much to her surprise, Reality soon stumbles upon a virtual smorgasborg of classified files, extensively detailing numerous Russian cyber attacks, targeting U.S. 00:44:32.389 --> 00:44:37.909 companies, voter registration systems, and local election infrastructure. 00:44:37.909 --> 00:44:45.590 That night, during her evening run, Reality receives a phone call informing her that her father has been hospitalized. 00:44:45.590 --> 00:44:53.590 Reality rushes to be by his side, staying with him overnight in the hospital as he peacefully passes away in his sleep. 00:44:53.590 --> 00:45:09.989 Though she is emotionally devastated, reality returns to work the following day as a means of distraction, but is still unable to avoid the incessant talking heads relentlessly playing on multiple TV screens in every office. 00:45:09.989 --> 00:45:24.789 Throughout the day, reality becomes increasingly unsettled by the public narrative, claiming that there was no proof of Russian election interference, which directly conflicted with what she had personally uncovered the previous day. 00:45:24.789 --> 00:45:34.150 Though she may have felt powerless in the face of her own father's mortality, telling the truth is one thing she still feels she has control over. 00:45:34.150 --> 00:45:43.349 Acting on impulse, reality covertly prints out several classified documents and hides them in her pantyhose to pass through security undetected. 00:45:43.750 --> 00:45:45.670 So it wasn't several documents. 00:45:45.670 --> 00:45:48.789 It was actually one document that was five pages. 00:45:48.789 --> 00:45:51.750 That is all she printed out and all she sent. 00:45:52.309 --> 00:45:59.590 I guess I just had assumed it was multiple documents because I saw her stuffing five pages into her underwear before leaving work. 00:45:59.590 --> 00:46:11.029 After work, reality stops by a mailbox on her way home and anonymously sends the documents to an independent investigative news organization called The Intercept. 00:46:11.509 --> 00:46:14.869 So here is another connection to Snowden. 00:46:14.869 --> 00:46:24.549 The Intercept is actually a publication that was founded in 2014 by Laura Potrius, Glenn Greenwald, and Jeremy Shaw. 00:46:24.549 --> 00:46:27.110 Remy, do you recognize those first two names? 00:46:27.429 --> 00:46:28.869 I absolutely do. 00:46:28.869 --> 00:46:32.869 They were involved in the release of the Snowden story. 00:46:33.269 --> 00:46:33.829 Exactly. 00:46:33.829 --> 00:46:44.230 So after that, they founded the Intercept in 2014 and really prided itself on the security and protection it typically provided whistleblowers. 00:46:44.710 --> 00:46:45.670 Ah, alright. 00:46:45.670 --> 00:46:54.309 I was not

familiar with the Intercept, but knowing that now, it makes perfect sense that that is where she decided to send the document. 00:46:54.630 --> 00:46:59.269 And unlike Snowden, this is the only place reality sent the document. 00:46:59.269 --> 00:47:01.590 She had no plans on releasing it elsewhere. 00:47:01.590 --> 00:47:09.590 Snowden was talking to people initially from two different news organizations, and then when he was in Hong Kong, a third became involved. 00:47:09.909 --> 00:47:14.230 Yeah, it really seems like this whole thing was done almost spur of the moment. 00:47:14.230 --> 00:47:22.150 Like she prints it out, she smuggles it out of the building pretty easily, and then literally just mails it out on her way home. 00:47:22.150 --> 00:47:27.110 It does not seem like this was a really planned out thing at all. 00:47:27.110 --> 00:47:33.670 While Snowden was reaching out to reporters, he was planning his escape, reality just kind of did it. 00:47:34.230 --> 00:47:40.630 In her book, she actually does say that she doesn't know why she chose to print it that day. 00:47:40.630 --> 00:47:45.190 But then there's several reasons that are provided or explained. 00:47:45.190 --> 00:47:51.349 So I think she does know, but she does say that it was just a very impulsive act. 00:47:51.670 --> 00:48:01.029 On June 3rd, 2017, Reality goes to work at the NSA as usual, still waiting anxiously for the story to hit the media. 00:48:01.029 --> 00:48:09.989 After finishing her shift, she returns home, parks in her driveway, and begins casually scrolling through Tinder profiles on her phone. 00:48:09.989 --> 00:48:22.789 From here, our story shifts over to the events depicted in the film Reality, which opens with two FBI agents arriving outside of her car and tapping on the window. 00:48:22.789 --> 00:48:32.789 Much to her surprise, reality looks up to see two FBI agents standing outside of her vehicle. 00:48:32.789 --> 00:48:38.789 Agent Garrick, played by Josh Hamilton, and Agent Taylor, played by Merchant Davis. 00:48:40.150 --> 00:48:41.509 How's your day today? 00:48:43.110 --> 00:48:43.590 Pretty good. 00:48:43.590 --> 00:48:45.509 Just got some groceries. 00:48:47.590 --> 00:48:48.549 Alright. 00:48:48.549 --> 00:48:55.190 Okay, well, the reason we're here today is that we have a search warrant for your house. 00:48:57.110 --> 00:48:57.429 Okay. 00:48:58.230 --> 00:48:58.869 All right. 00:48:58.869 --> 00:49:01.190 Uh, do you know what this might be about? 00:49:02.869 --> 00:49:04.710 I have no idea. 00:49:05.829 --> 00:49:06.150 Okay. 00:49:06.789 --> 00:49:11.029 This is about uh possible mishandling of classified information. 00:49:11.909 --> 00:49:12.789 Oh my goodness. 00:49:12.789 --> 00:49:13.269 Okay. 00:49:15.190 --> 00:49:23.509 So the second they said that, reality says in her book that in her mind, she's just like, I am so screwed here. 00:49:23.509 --> 00:49:26.869 I would be peeing myself if this happened to me. 00:49:26.869 --> 00:49:37.670 Two FBI agents just knock on my door, and the silence between them, which we have cut out of the clip we just played just for time's sake, is deafening. 00:49:38.069 --> 00:49:52.549 Yes, the audience couldn't see in the clip that I just played you that the agents both flash their FBI badges to reality before jumping into the fact that they have a warrant and what they are there for. 00:49:52.549 --> 00:49:56.869 And I would absolutely be freaking out. 00:49:56.869 --> 00:50:07.590 I don't know if I could stay as calm as she appears on the outside in this scene, but I love how you can still see a bit of nervousness in Sweeney's performance. 00:50:07.590 --> 00:50:12.469 Like she's trying to play it off, but you can tell she's like, oh no, this could be something bad. 00:50:12.710 --> 00:50:18.949 Well, and after they show her the badge, there's a good 15 seconds where they're not saying anything and they're just staring at her. 00:50:18.949 --> 00:50:20.789 And that's an interrogation tactic. 00:50:20.789 --> 00:50:24.069 People feel uncomfortable when there is silence. 00:50:24.069 --> 00:50:33.989 So a lot of times, detectives will purposefully be quiet for a long time, hoping that the person they're talking to will fill the silence. 00:50:34.309 --> 00:50:42.069 It makes the other person feel awkward, so they are compelled to just talk in order to fill the space. 00:50:42.069 --> 00:50:46.710 And the entire film is full of interrogation tactics. 00:50:46.710 --> 00:50:54.389 And I found it very interesting to watch it all play out, as it actually did in the real FBI transcript. 00:50:54.389 --> 00:51:11.110 After stepping out of the car, Reality, played by Sidney Sweeney, is informed that the agents have a federal warrant allowing them to search her residence, vehicle, electronic devices, and person for evidence related to the mishandling of classified information. 00:51:11.110 --> 00:51:20.389 And I didn't mention this in my summary, but they take her cell phone and ask for the password to unlock it, and she just says, Oh, there's no password. 00:51:20.389 --> 00:51:23.110 And they look at her like, What? 00:51:23.110 --> 00:51:27.110 You don't have a password on your phone and you work for the NSA? 00:51:27.110 --> 00:51:40.069 During the encounter, the agents repeatedly remind Reality that speaking with them is voluntary, but she agrees to cooperate and answer their questions without an attorney present. 00:51:40.389 --> 00:51:53.989 The whole nature of the voluntariness is something that her lawyers bring up before her case is resolved, because yes, they told her she was there voluntarily, but at this point, they have taken her phone. 00:51:53.989 --> 00:52:02.549 She is a 25-year-old girl surrounded, surrounded by federal agents that are tearing her home apart. 00:52:02.549 --> 00:52:06.150 And how voluntary would that actually feel? 00:52:06.549 --> 00:52:12.069 Yeah, it would be a very intense situation to stand up for

yourself in. 00:52:12.069 --> 00:52:17.909 And I think that's exactly what the FBI was hoping for in this situation. 00:52:17.909 --> 00:52:20.469 It's almost an intimidation tactic. 00:52:20.469 --> 00:52:25.989 Like you can say you're not gonna speak to us, but do you know what's gonna happen after you say that? 00:52:25.989 --> 00:52:27.029 Probably not. 00:52:27.269 --> 00:52:32.710 And she also had two rescue animals, a dog and a cat, that both did not like men. 00:52:32.710 --> 00:52:37.909 So throughout this whole encounter, she's worried that her dog is gonna attack one of these guys. 00:52:37.909 --> 00:52:41.750 Her cat is gonna attack one of these guys, and they're gonna be shot and killed. 00:52:41.750 --> 00:52:52.469 So I could not imagine her being like, okay, I'm gonna leave, and I'm just gonna leave my beloved animals in here, having no clue what you're gonna do to them or what they're gonna do to you. 00:52:52.789 --> 00:52:54.230 And that is portrayed in the film. 00:52:54.230 --> 00:53:00.549 It shows the agents having a difficult time getting the animals wrangled into an outside area. 00:53:00.549 --> 00:53:05.590 And reality is really, really concerned for her animal safety. 00:53:05.590 --> 00:53:10.309 She seems more concerned about them than she does about her own well-being. 00:53:10.309 --> 00:53:27.029 As FBI agents begin swarming through reality's property, Agent Garrick tries making casual conversation about the neighborhood, her dog, and even CrossFit, offhandedly insinuating that he already knows a great deal about her. 00:53:27.029 --> 00:53:29.029 Permission to speak freely here. 00:53:29.029 --> 00:53:34.230 This movie is filmed exactly the way I wish Snowden had been filmed. 00:53:34.230 --> 00:53:45.429 The scenes are incredibly tense, and so much of the drama comes from what isn't being said, like you had mentioned earlier, Ashley, with those long pauses in the conversation. 00:53:45.429 --> 00:53:58.150 The agents clearly know that she understands why they're there, she knows that they know, and the unspoken tension makes the whole sequence incredibly riveting to watch. 00:53:58.389 --> 00:54:00.710 And we had talked about that in our Snowden episode. 00:54:00.710 --> 00:54:18.949 We had mentioned several different points in the story that could have been translated exactly like this on screen, where the tension is, like you said, created by what we as the audience understand and what we know the people understand, but isn't being said. 00:54:18.949 --> 00:54:22.469 It is being shown to us, not told to us. 00:54:22.869 --> 00:54:31.750 While the other agents secure the house, Winner discloses that she owns several firearms, including a handgun and a pink AR-15. 00:54:32.230 --> 00:54:41.269 I plan on never owning an AR-15 just because I don't think they're necessary, but if I did, I would want that one. 00:54:41.670 --> 00:54:49.989 I'm pretty sure one of my New York friends who has a lot of similarities to

Reality Winner has a pink shotgun of sorts. 00:54:49.989 --> 00:54:58.549 The agents then carry out a full search of her home, seizing her cell phone, laptop, and other electronic devices as part of the warrant. 00:54:58.549 --> 00:55:03.670 She eventually agrees to sit down for an interview in a creepy back room of the house. 00:55:03.989 --> 00:55:09.269 Why it's creepy is because it's a room that she never used, so there was no furniture in it. 00:55:09.269 --> 00:55:11.909 It was basically just a storage space she was using. 00:55:11.909 --> 00:55:18.549 It's like the front living room sitting area, but she never went in there, and there was just nothing in there. 00:55:18.549 --> 00:55:21.029 So they just all sit on the ground. 00:55:21.349 --> 00:55:26.789 And this is the room that the play, Is This a Room, is named after, I assume. 00:55:26.789 --> 00:55:32.150 And I referred to the room as creepy because that is how reality referred to it. 00:55:32.150 --> 00:55:34.309 She thought it was a weird, creepy room as well. 00:55:34.630 --> 00:55:36.789 I can't remember why she thought it was creepy. 00:55:36.789 --> 00:55:39.909 It was listed in the book, but I didn't write it down. 00:55:40.389 --> 00:55:48.469 It's basically just an empty white room in the back of the house that looks like it hasn't been well maintained in a while. 00:55:48.469 --> 00:55:51.909 It's just weirdly eerie and empty. 00:55:51.909 --> 00:56:05.190 From there, Agent Garrick and Agent Taylor formally identify themselves on the record, explaining the warrant and beginning the official questioning while the search feverishly continues elsewhere in the home. 00:56:05.509 --> 00:56:13.750 Another point going back to the voluntariness of this confession, I believe at this point they had taken her keys. 00:56:14.069 --> 00:56:26.309 I may have missed that part, but at this point they are already starting to photograph things, bag them up as evidence, and they are taking basically anything that they want to as potential evidence. 00:56:26.309 --> 00:56:33.429 During the interview, the agents begin documenting her personal background, employment history, and security clearance. 00:56:33.429 --> 00:56:36.069 She confirms her prior service in the U.S. 00:56:36.069 --> 00:56:53.829 Air Force, her TSSCI clearance, and her employment as a contract linguist for Plurberus at the NSA's White Law Building, including her assignment to the Iranian Aerospace Forces office and her proficiency in Farsi, Dari, and Pashtu. 00:56:54.230 --> 00:56:57.670 What did you think about when you saw the name of that company? 00:56:57.989 --> 00:57:02.389 I thought of the show Plurberus, of course, one of the best shows on TV. 00:57:02.389 --> 00:57:07.190 I don't think I had ever heard that word before the show, and now I saw it here too. 00:57:07.429 --> 00:57:09.110 That's exactly what I thought about too. 00:57:09.110 --> 00:57:13.190 If you guys have not watched show Plurbus on Apple TV, watch it. 00:57:13.190 --> 00:57:14.630 It is phenomenal. 00:57:14.949 --> 00:57:19.670 Yes, that is completely unrelated, but nevertheless, watch that show. 00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:23.349 It is probably the best thing on TV right now. 00:57:23.349 --> 00:57:46.630 When the agents explain that the investigation is tied to a report about mishandling classified information, she quickly brings up an earlier workplace incident from February 2017, saying that during onboarding, she accidentally printed a classified email and without realizing it, carried it past an internal security checkpoint before the mistake was caught and reported. 00:57:46.630 --> 00:57:52.230 Something she insists was simply an accident that had already been taken care of. 00:57:52.549 --> 00:57:55.429 It was actually so much more benign than that. 00:57:55.429 --> 00:58:07.670 It was her first day on the job, and the document she brought with her was a printout with her temporary email password that she had already changed, and she didn't even leave the building. 00:58:07.670 --> 00:58:14.309 She went into the cafeteria area, not knowing that that was technically outside of the quote unquote secure perimeter. 00:58:14.789 --> 00:58:37.750 Agents Garrick and Taylor acknowledged the earlier workplace incident, but continue to repeatedly circle back to the same core questions, such as asking whether she had ever taken classified documents out of the facility, emailed or downloaded sensitive material in ways she wasn't supposed to, or shared classified information with anyone who wasn't authorized to see it. 00:58:37.750 --> 00:58:43.429 Each time she says no, consistently denying any purposeful wrongdoing. 00:58:43.429 --> 00:58:59.029 She does acknowledge that she occasionally viewed internal drone feeds and mission-related material through authorized systems, but maintains that her access was within the scope of her clearance and not connected to any misuse of information. 00:58:59.029 --> 00:59:17.989 The agents keep probing for inconsistencies, asking detailed questions about her clearance history, how much system access she actually had, whether she ever printed materials that weren't related to her assignments, and whether she had ever taken reference material or NSA pulse articles out of the building. 00:59:17.989 --> 00:59:29.110 Agent Garrick then bluntly tells her that they have evidence she printed documents related to and that investigators know far more than they have let on so far. 00:59:29.110 --> 00:59:40.469 Reality responds by admitting that she sometimes printed internal pulse articles to use as scratch paper, but insists that they were always properly thrown away and never taken home. 00:59:40.789 --> 00:59:46.389 A fun fact, most offices use shredders to get rid of documents. 00:59:46.389 --> 00:59:47.670 No, not the NSA. 00:59:47.670 --> 00:59:49.349 They have burn bags. 00:59:49.670 --> 00:59:54.949 So they put it in a bag and it gets burned at the end of the day,

or is there like an incinerator in the cellar? 00:59:55.269 --> 00:59:56.869 It gets burned somehow. 00:59:57.190 --> 01:00:00.150 Probably just a guy in the basement with a book of matches. 01:00:00.469 --> 01:00:08.949 It makes sense because technically with shredders, as we saw in Better Call Saul, if you are really committed to it, you can reconstruct that. 01:00:09.349 --> 01:00:17.829 Oh, I learned that at a very young age from the film Batman Returns, in which the penguin glued together an entire pamphlet of documents that had been shredded. 01:00:17.829 --> 01:00:22.549 So yeah, burning is the way to go if you're trying to get rid of sensitive info. 01:00:22.549 --> 01:00:34.389 Throughout the interview, reality stays cooperative and conversational, though she clearly becomes increasingly nervous as the seriousness and scope of the investigation begin to sink in. 01:00:35.110 --> 01:00:39.429 I don't think you're a, you know, a a big bad master spy or anything, okay? 01:00:39.429 --> 01:00:39.909 I don't. 01:00:39.909 --> 01:00:40.869 I don't think that. 01:00:40.869 --> 01:00:44.789 I think that I've looked at the evidence and it's compelling. 01:00:44.789 --> 01:00:46.789 No, I'm not sure why you did it. 01:00:46.789 --> 01:00:48.869 And I'm curious as to that. 01:00:48.869 --> 01:00:53.429 But I think you might have been angry over everything that's going on politics-wise. 01:00:53.429 --> 01:00:58.389 Because you can't turn on the You can't turn on the TV without getting pissed off. 01:00:58.389 --> 01:01:00.150 Or at least I can. 01:01:00.150 --> 01:01:03.509 I think you might have just made a mistake. 01:01:03.509 --> 01:01:10.069 Now, why I'm here and why I want to talk to you is to figure out the why behind this, okay? 01:01:10.069 --> 01:01:13.429 So I ask you again. 01:01:13.429 --> 01:01:15.590 Did you take it out and send it? 01:01:16.389 --> 01:01:22.869 And unfortunately for reality, she believed him when he said he just wanted to understand why. 01:01:22.869 --> 01:01:25.509 The FBI did not want to understand why. 01:01:25.509 --> 01:01:30.949 They were there for one reason and one reason only, and that was to get information against her. 01:01:31.269 --> 01:01:37.110 And the tactics of trying to be like, I relate to you, I know the news is really stressful. 01:01:37.110 --> 01:01:38.230 Is this why you did it? 01:01:38.230 --> 01:01:41.989 Like trying to rope her into confessing. 01:01:41.989 --> 01:01:47.590 It's very, very fascinating to me watching these sort of procedures go down. 01:01:47.590 --> 01:02:03.190 Realizing the agents already know far more than she initially thought, reality eventually admits to printing out the documents in question, then smuggling them out of the building and mailing them to Why did you print that one out? 01:02:03.829 --> 01:02:05.670 Because I wanted to read it. 01:02:05.670 --> 01:02:17.509 Uh the way I I downloaded it, it was hard to read, so uh uh just it looked like a piece of history, you know, and I I I wanted it on my desk for like a day. 01:02:18.469 --> 01:02:20.469 Did you uh how did you find it? 01:02:21.989 --> 01:02:31.989 Uh so if you go on polls, there's uh uh at the top right they have a tab that says articles, and I I scroll through those. 01:02:31.989 --> 01:02:52.069 And I don't know if you guys saw the one about the miniature ponies, but uh yeah, no, no, that was uh that was number one for like a year, so obviously I go to check to see if there's any other gems, and then there was there was that one, and I saw it in the news, and I was just like, yeah, I uh I wanted to read it. 01:02:52.069 --> 01:02:53.909 So yeah. 01:03:09.750 --> 01:03:18.549 She then walks them through exactly when, where, and how she sent the material, along with any reasoning behind her actions. 01:03:18.549 --> 01:03:27.110 Although the agents seem satisfied with her full confession, reality is still asked to wait as the process continues. 01:03:27.110 --> 01:03:34.069 Finally, at around 5 15 p.m., she is placed in handcuffs and taken into FBI custody. 01:03:34.469 --> 01:03:44.150 And one of the reasons they had to wait is because they wanted to search her before, and when I say search her, I mean her body, before they took her into custody. 01:03:44.150 --> 01:03:50.710 But these ding bats, even though that was listed in the search warrant, they didn't even bring a female officer with them. 01:03:50.710 --> 01:03:54.949 So they had to wait for one to be sent, which took another like 20 minutes. 01:03:55.349 --> 01:03:57.269 That's what they were waiting for. 01:03:57.269 --> 01:04:06.869 Okay, that was not clearly stated in the film, but it is a female officer who finally searches her and places her in handcuffs at the end. 01:04:07.190 --> 01:04:09.269 Yep, they had to wait for that person to get there. 01:04:09.590 --> 01:04:32.150 There is a scene in the film where they are waiting for the female officer, and reality goes to the restroom, and she has this brief moment by herself where she looks at her reflection, and you can tell just the weight and gravity and severity of this situation is really sinking in. 01:04:32.150 --> 01:04:41.989 And the fact that she has this time to let it sink in further and further and further, I would just be a mess by the time I actually got arrested. 01:04:41.989 --> 01:04:48.789 And I also want to mention, while she's being arrested in this scene, she is really concerned about her animals. 01:04:48.789 --> 01:04:58.309 She wants to be able to call someone to come and take care of her dogs and feed her cat, and she really does not seem that concerned about what's going to happen to her. 01:04:58.309 --> 01:05:03.670 She just wants to make sure that while she's gone, her pets will be taken care of. 01:05:03.670 --> 01:05:09.670 The film Reality closes with the following quote from Reality Lee Winner. 01:05:09.670 --> 01:05:15.989 I knew it was a secret, but I also knew I had pledged service to

the American people. 01:05:16.469 --> 01:05:21.349 And it's funny because the Russian interference in the election wasn't a secret. 01:05:21.349 --> 01:05:25.349 By the time she leaked this document, it was on the news 24-7. 01:05:25.349 --> 01:05:26.789 It was already out there. 01:05:26.789 --> 01:05:30.150 She just had this document that proved it. 01:05:30.710 --> 01:05:47.429 Shifting back to the film Winner, we watched news footage from multiple networks announcing that a 25-year-old NSA contractor named Reality Winner has been arrested for leaking classified documents related to Russian interference in the 2016 election. 01:05:47.429 --> 01:06:00.469 Though there is some coverage focusing on the documents leaked, the majority of media attention seems to be primarily focused on her unusual name while ignoring most of the facts. 01:06:00.469 --> 01:06:09.429 Through narration, reality reflects on the fact that if people recognize her at all, It is often because of her name rather than her actions. 01:06:09.429 --> 01:06:20.549 Reality is indicted under the Espionage Act and charged with the willful retention of national defense information, entering a plea of not guilty. 01:06:20.549 --> 01:06:33.829 During the early court proceedings, the prosecution highlights elements of her background, including her interest in Middle Eastern languages and travel, while also introducing personal text messages as evidence. 01:06:33.829 --> 01:06:43.509 And the messages in question that they bring into evidence in the scene are mostly joking messages that she was sending to her sister. 01:06:43.509 --> 01:06:57.670 Like one message was reality claiming that she says, I hate America three times a day, which is obviously meant to be a joke, but it is taken out of context for the court proceedings. 01:06:57.670 --> 01:07:24.869 Reality is denied bond and held in solitary confinement while awaiting trial, spending 41 days in near total isolation before being subjected to a legal form of torture called diesel therapy, in which a prisoner is repeatedly transported between facilities, often for long stretches of time, on multiple flights or bus transfers, leaving the prisoner sleep-deprived and disoriented. 01:07:24.869 --> 01:07:28.150 And this sounds like my personal living hell. 01:07:28.150 --> 01:07:40.389 I can't stand being on airplanes, and the idea of being stuck on an airplane for days and days and days, I would totally lose my mind by the end of it. 01:07:40.389 --> 01:07:43.670 Had you heard of diesel therapy before, Ashley? 01:07:43.989 --> 01:07:50.069 Not the term, but it's basically referred to, or as how she describes it in her book. 01:07:50.069 --> 01:07:52.630 It is not quite how you explained it. 01:07:52.630 --> 01:07:57.190 It's a way to transport prisoners in very uncomfortable ways. 01:07:57.190 --> 01:08:00.309 So she wasn't on a plane for eight days. 01:08:00.309 --> 01:08:13.670 They just really didn't tell her where she was going and

transferred her to these places where she shouldn't have been for no reason at all, and she wasn't even told why she was being taken to these different places. 01:08:14.069 --> 01:08:22.229 Well, in the film, after eight grueling days of so-called diesel therapy, reality is eventually placed in a crowded detention setting. 01:08:22.229 --> 01:08:31.269 You know, one of those places where the prisoners are all in one room and there's a bunch of bunk beds all over the place, and there's like 15 prisoners in the room. 01:08:31.269 --> 01:08:36.470 And this results in reality being assaulted by one of her cellmates. 01:08:36.949 --> 01:08:41.269 And the inmate that actually assaulted her, she was having a mental health crisis at the time. 01:08:41.269 --> 01:08:46.710 I think how she described it in her memoir is the jail had been withholding this woman's medications. 01:08:47.269 --> 01:08:52.869 So she wasn't attacked because her name was in the news and the person recognized her or something like that. 01:08:52.869 --> 01:08:56.789 The person was mentally ill and took it out on reality. 01:08:56.869 --> 01:08:57.670 Aaron Powell Exactly. 01:08:57.670 --> 01:09:00.710 And they ended up making up and being fine afterwards. 01:09:01.269 --> 01:09:13.909 Well, reality struggles to adapt to her life of incarceration, and soon realizes how limited her ability will be to publicly tell her side of the story. 01:09:13.909 --> 01:09:26.229 Facing the possibility of a lengthy sentence, she ultimately agrees to accept a plea deal, coming to the conclusion that fighting the system on her own may be nearly impossible. 01:09:26.229 --> 01:09:33.510 The film then moves forward to her sentencing, where she receives a prison term of five years and three months. 01:09:33.510 --> 01:09:49.109 While incarcerated, Reality receives a letter from her former boyfriend, Andre, including a photograph showing him holding his veterinary certificate and wearing a wedding ring, signaling that he has moved on with his life and completed the goals he once dreamed of. 01:09:49.430 --> 01:09:50.869 Aw, good for Andre. 01:09:50.869 --> 01:09:52.149 Dreams are possible. 01:09:52.470 --> 01:09:53.029 I know, right? 01:09:53.029 --> 01:10:00.470 I was rooting for Andre throughout all of this, and he also has a new adopted dog that is very cute in the photo as well. 01:10:00.470 --> 01:10:12.789 The film ends with Reality acknowledging that meaningful change often requires risk, leaving open the question of whether the cost of her decision was truly worth it. 01:10:12.789 --> 01:10:21.350 Before the closing credits, we learn that Reality Winner was incarcerated for four years and was released on probation in 2021. 01:10:21.829 --> 01:10:35.989 And it ended up being four years instead of the five years and three months that she was sentenced to, because the sentence did include credit for time served, which she ended up being in jail for about a year, and then she had a few months earned

for good behavior. 01:10:36.630 --> 01:10:47.350 And we failed to mention this up until this point, but this is actually the longest sentence in modern history that a whistleblower has ever received. 01:10:47.350 --> 01:10:51.590 Reality currently works as a CrossFit coach in Texas. 01:10:51.590 --> 01:10:59.590 She plans to found a charity, research climate change solutions, study neuroscience, and lobby for prison reform. 01:10:59.590 --> 01:11:06.069 And that was Susanna Fogle's Winner and Tina Satter's Reality. 01:11:06.069 --> 01:11:09.109 Any initial reactions, Ashley? 01:11:09.430 --> 01:11:10.710 Yeah, I'm really curious. 01:11:10.710 --> 01:11:12.149 What movie did you like better? 01:11:12.390 --> 01:11:15.829 Hands down, reality was the better film. 01:11:15.829 --> 01:11:31.590 Reality is taking the subject matter extremely seriously, extremely realistically, and it is clear that they are trying to portray these events as accurately and detailed as possible. 01:11:31.590 --> 01:11:32.630 And it shows. 01:11:32.630 --> 01:11:37.510 And Sydney Sweeney is a powerhouse in this role. 01:11:37.510 --> 01:11:43.029 She has so many emotions that she runs through so well and so convincingly. 01:11:43.029 --> 01:11:54.630 She starts off as nervous, she's trying to make casual conversation, and you can see the anxiousness and fear kind of rising in her throughout the film. 01:11:54.630 --> 01:11:59.750 You see her feeling relieved after she has finally confessed to everything. 01:11:59.750 --> 01:12:22.390 And there are brief moments where she's in the midst of being questioned and she's very, very nervous, but there'll be a moment where she brings up her dog or her cat or something, and her demeanor just changes for a few seconds to feeling very happy and comfortable when she's talking about her pets, then immediately reverts back to anxiety when she's finished talking about them. 01:12:22.390 --> 01:12:26.470 It's an amazing performance, and it's a very well-made film. 01:12:26.789 --> 01:12:28.309 Was Winter even funny? 01:12:28.309 --> 01:12:34.470 It's listed as a dark comedy, and I guess there were a few scenes that you showed me that I was just like, huh. 01:12:34.470 --> 01:12:38.710 But it didn't strike me as something that would make people laugh. 01:12:39.109 --> 01:12:48.229 There are comedic scenes, or scenes that are supposed to be comedic, but it's not like a clever comedy or anything like that. 01:12:48.229 --> 01:12:54.949 If anything, this is a serious story that Winner decided to film like a comedy. 01:12:54.949 --> 01:13:03.829 The few jokes that I can even think of off the top of my head have to do with her relationship with her sister and how she keeps ruining things for her sister. 01:13:03.829 --> 01:13:10.309 But beyond that, it's a serious story, but it is shot and acted like a comedy. 01:13:10.309 --> 01:13:14.949 It's a strange choice that I don't think does the story justice. 01:13:15.269 --> 01:13:16.789 Well, let's

get into post-production. 01:13:16.789 --> 01:13:18.550 I'm curious how these movies did. 01:13:18.869 --> 01:13:26.789 Reality premiered at the 73rd Berlin International Film Festival on February 18, 2023. 01:13:26.789 --> 01:13:35.109 Prior to the premiere, MK2 Films acquired the film's international sales rights, and HBO Films later secured U.S. 01:13:35.109 --> 01:13:36.149 distribution. 01:13:36.149 --> 01:13:53.350 The film debuted on HBO on May 29, 2023, followed by theatrical releases in several international markets, including the United Kingdom and Ireland on June 2nd, Australia on June 29th, and France on August 16th. 01:13:53.750 --> 01:13:54.869 Okay, so I was right. 01:13:54.869 --> 01:13:57.350 It wasn't released in theaters at all in the United States. 01:13:57.350 --> 01:13:58.869 It was just thrown on HBO. 01:13:59.269 --> 01:14:03.189 Yeah, this film had an extremely limited release. 01:14:03.189 --> 01:14:07.750 In fact, I was surprised to find out that it was released in theaters at all. 01:14:07.750 --> 01:14:24.390 Reality currently holds a 93% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, with a critical consensus that reads Reality's narrow scope and gripping fact-based story add up to a riveting showcase for Sidney Sweeney in the title role. 01:14:24.390 --> 01:14:31.590 And here is just a brief clip of Miss Sweeney discussing what she hopes audiences take away from the film. 01:14:37.269 --> 01:14:43.269 And I hope that they see that we are humanizing a moment in someone's life. 01:14:43.670 --> 01:14:46.069 Well, in that regard, I think the film succeeded. 01:14:46.069 --> 01:14:48.789 I did think that reality was a person. 01:14:49.269 --> 01:14:55.430 It seemed like she was not expecting that question and tried to think real quickly on her feet. 01:14:55.829 --> 01:15:11.029 Well, nevertheless, Sidney Sweeney received a 2024 Critics' Choice Award nomination for Best Actress in a Movie or Miniseries for her portrayal of Reality Winner, while the film itself was nominated for Best Movie Made for Television. 01:15:11.029 --> 01:15:19.750 Reality also went on to win a Peabody Award, recognizing the film as a powerful dramatization of real-world events. 01:15:19.750 --> 01:15:29.350 The following year, Winner premiered at the 2024 Sundance Film Festival on January 20th, with Reality Winner herself in attendance. 01:15:29.670 --> 01:15:32.149 So she had to have seen it if she was at the premiere. 01:15:32.550 --> 01:15:33.269 Not true. 01:15:33.269 --> 01:15:42.069 Many celebrities and guests will attend the red carpet portion of a premiere and then not stick around for the film itself. 01:15:42.069 --> 01:15:45.269 I know your man Leo does that with all of his films. 01:15:45.269 --> 01:15:50.949 He doesn't like watching himself on screen, so he'll attend the premiere and then leave for the film. 01:15:50.949 --> 01:16:12.229 Winner was released on September 13th, 2024, and currently has a 56% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes, with a critical consensus that reads, Susanna Fogle's comprehensive take on this true story has some rooting interest thanks in part to Amelia Jones' engaging performance. 01:16:12.229 --> 01:16:18.069 But a discordantly jaunty tone keeps it from being a real winner. 01:16:18.390 --> 01:16:22.309 Ah, so it seems like critics agreed with you on which movie was better. 01:16:22.630 --> 01:16:25.829 Alright, well that's how the movies tell the story. 01:16:25.829 --> 01:16:31.989 But now let's get into the actual reality of Reality Winner. 01:16:59.829 --> 01:17:06.710 Her dad, Ronald, often said his chance at success was deliberately sabotaged by his own family. 01:17:06.710 --> 01:17:18.390 As the story went, he'd once been a baseball prospect invited to try out for the New York Yankees, but his father allegedly broke his ankle to stop him from playing. 01:17:18.710 --> 01:17:19.510 What the fuck? 01:17:19.510 --> 01:17:20.470 Why would he do that? 01:17:20.470 --> 01:17:23.350 He didn't want his son to play for the Yankees? 01:17:23.350 --> 01:17:25.430 He must have been a Boston fan. 01:17:25.750 --> 01:17:32.149 Like many of his stories, it wasn't always easy for reality to separate fact from fiction. 01:17:32.149 --> 01:17:38.949 Ron was a compulsive storyteller, and over time, his claims became the cornerstone of his life. 01:17:38.949 --> 01:17:43.430 He said he studied theology and psychology, but rarely said where. 01:17:43.430 --> 01:17:54.390 After his undergraduate thesis was reportedly rejected, he dropped out and moved to a reservation in Canada for several years for reasons that were never explained. 01:17:54.390 --> 01:18:02.949 Reality suspected he fled the country to avoid being drafted into the Vietnam War and hid his true reasons out of shame. 01:18:02.949 --> 01:18:09.350 By the early 1970s, he'd returned to the United States and drifted into a life of petty crime. 01:18:09.350 --> 01:18:22.390 He briefly married and had a daughter named Nikki, but was not involved in her life after he spent two years in the Ohio State Penitentiary, possibly for stealing a vehicle from the cemetery where he worked. 01:18:22.390 --> 01:18:26.069 Reality's mother Billy also had a difficult childhood. 01:18:26.069 --> 01:18:29.909 Her parents were poor, abusive, and mentally ill. 01:18:29.909 --> 01:18:39.510 Determined to escape that cycle, she put herself through college and studied sociology at the University of Wisconsin, where she met the much older Ron. 01:18:39.829 --> 01:18:42.069 What was the age gap between the two? 01:18:42.390 --> 01:18:43.829 21 years. 01:18:43.829 --> 01:18:52.789 They quickly married in 1990 when Billy became pregnant with her first daughter and moved to Texas, where she began working for child protective services. 01:18:52.789 --> 01:18:58.069 Only weeks after Britney was born, the family was T-boned by a drunk driver. 01:18:58.069 --> 01:19:03.829 Ron's lower spine was shattered, and Britney's umbilical cord stump

ruptured. 01:19:03.829 --> 01:19:12.470 Within the year, the family bought 60 acres of land near Kingsville, Texas, about 100 miles north of the Mexican border. 01:19:12.470 --> 01:19:16.869 Reality, her mother, and her stepdad still live there to this day. 01:19:16.869 --> 01:19:20.869 Reality was born on December 4th, 1991. 01:19:20.869 --> 01:19:29.750 Within the year, he had over 10 surgeries to rebuild his spine and became addicted to oxycotton when it hit the market in 1995. 01:19:30.309 --> 01:19:32.069 Okay, that's what he was addicted to. 01:19:32.069 --> 01:19:38.390 The film is a bit unclear as to exactly what pills he is taking throughout. 01:19:38.710 --> 01:19:45.909 There's been several movies and TV shows about all the lawsuits that came following the introduction of this drug. 01:19:45.909 --> 01:19:47.670 One of them we do have on the list. 01:19:47.989 --> 01:19:54.069 And it is criminal how frequently and carelessly this stuff was being prescribed. 01:19:54.390 --> 01:20:01.750 Well, unlike many Americans, Ron's addiction to Oxy lasted the rest of his life and had grave impacts on his functioning. 01:20:01.750 --> 01:20:07.989 He was sick and bedridden for most of reality's childhood and never could hold down a job. 01:20:07.989 --> 01:20:13.750 As his illness worsened, he grew paranoid, delusional, and suicidal. 01:20:13.750 --> 01:20:19.909 After their parents divorced when reality was six, the girls saw their father every other weekend. 01:20:19.909 --> 01:20:25.590 At first, they enjoyed these visits since they ended with extravagant shopping sprees. 01:20:25.590 --> 01:20:32.069 But the appeal dimmed as the girls grew older and started to realize that their dad wasn't a functional parent. 01:20:32.069 --> 01:20:43.269 When he wasn't laying in bed in his trailer, he took the girls with him to bars, trips to Mexico, and drug runs involving the pharmaceuticals he was now using and peddling. 01:20:43.829 --> 01:20:46.710 This was all excluded from the film. 01:20:47.189 --> 01:20:50.069 Billy, on the other hand, worked constantly. 01:20:50.069 --> 01:20:57.989 As a CPS supervisor, she spent long hours away from home, but made sure her daughters were never late to school or activities. 01:20:57.989 --> 01:21:04.149 She poured herself into holidays and birthdays, determined to give her children stability and joy. 01:21:04.149 --> 01:21:11.029 Because of her work ethic, the family lived just above the poverty line and owned their mobile home and land. 01:21:11.029 --> 01:21:19.430 It wasn't until Billy married reality's stepfather Greg in 2000 that she finally got a stable conventional father figure. 01:21:19.829 --> 01:21:25.909 Greg is in the film winner, but much later in reality's life. 01:21:26.229 --> 01:21:29.670 Despite everything, Reality loved her dad deeply. 01:21:29.670 --> 01:21:36.390 He was intelligent and curious, but just not motivated, willing, or able to really achieve anything. 01:21:36.390 --> 01:21:41.670 He loved testing her with IQ questions, trivia, and word games. 01:21:41.670 --> 01:21:46.949 They bonded over history documentaries, politics, religion, and guns. 01:21:46.949 --> 01:21:58.710 After 9-11, Ron was the only adult who spoke to 10-year-old reality directly and seriously about what happened and encouraged her growing interest in politics and global affairs. 01:21:59.029 --> 01:22:06.949 I got the impression that reality was much closer with Ron while Brittany was much closer with her mother Billy. 01:22:07.510 --> 01:22:11.510 In high school, reality worked hard to earn her father's attention. 01:22:11.510 --> 01:22:17.829 She began studying Arabic and Islam largely because it was what he wanted to talk about. 01:22:18.309 --> 01:22:20.550 Could he speak those languages? 01:22:20.869 --> 01:22:24.309 No, he was just interested in global politics. 01:22:24.869 --> 01:22:28.149 So she was taking up hobbies that interested him. 01:22:28.710 --> 01:22:30.630 So she could talk to him about them. 01:22:31.109 --> 01:22:32.470 That is very sweet. 01:22:33.189 --> 01:22:37.269 Drawn to Judaism and its history, she also learned Hebrew. 01:22:37.510 --> 01:22:38.869 That is impressive. 01:22:39.510 --> 01:22:45.829 She studied Latin and was so committed to Arabic that a Turkish art teacher connected her with a tutor. 01:22:45.829 --> 01:22:52.309 Despite her academic and athletic successes, reality struggled behind closed doors. 01:22:52.309 --> 01:22:58.390 As a teenager, she developed bulimia and hid it from everyone until she was arrested. 01:22:58.390 --> 01:23:04.390 As the stress grew, binging and purging became the only thing she felt like she could control. 01:23:04.390 --> 01:23:09.989 By her senior year of high school, she realized her parents couldn't afford to send her to college. 01:23:09.989 --> 01:23:17.029 Her love of languages, interest in global affairs, and desire to make a difference pushed her towards the military. 01:23:17.430 --> 01:23:21.510 That is something that I wish was highlighted more in the film. 01:23:21.510 --> 01:23:40.149 It seems like it was a conscious decision of reality in the film winner to pursue the military instead of college, while I think a circumstance where someone may not have the financial means to go to college and joins the military instead is much more relatable and realistic. 01:23:40.550 --> 01:23:51.109 Well, interestingly, she did apply to Texas AM and was later accepted into the engineering program with a full scholarship, but by that point, she was already intent on enlisting. 01:23:51.510 --> 01:23:56.470 So she had already made up her mind at that point, but could have gone to Texas AM. 01:23:56.789 --> 01:23:58.470 On a full ride scholarship. 01:23:58.470 --> 01:24:07.029 She began speaking with recruiters about being a linguist specializing in Middle Eastern and African languages. 01:24:07.029 --> 01:24:10.229 She even excelled on the language aptitude test. 01:24:10.229 -->

01:24:15.829 But at the urging of her mother, she changed gears and instead joined the Air Force. 01:24:15.829 --> 01:24:21.029 One of Gary's kids was in the Air Force for like eight years. 01:24:21.029 --> 01:24:26.949 So she talked to him, and after that conversation, she decided to enlist in the Air Force instead of the Army. 01:24:26.949 --> 01:24:33.670 Six months after graduation, Reality left for eight weeks of basic training in Corpus Christi, Texas. 01:24:33.670 --> 01:24:39.989 From there, she was sent to the Defense Language Institute on a military base near San Francisco. 01:24:39.989 --> 01:24:46.390 She really wanted to learn Arabic or Pashtu, the primary languages spoken in Afghanistan. 01:24:46.390 --> 01:24:52.630 Instead, she was assigned Farsi, a language spoken almost exclusively in Iran. 01:24:52.630 --> 01:25:00.789 This was a huge disappointment since Iran was a middle-income country with a highly educated population and a large military presence. 01:25:00.789 --> 01:25:07.989 She imagined herself helping the world's most vulnerable people and assisting middle-class Iranians didn't fit the bill. 01:25:07.989 --> 01:25:11.909 Language school was one of the most stressful times of reality's life. 01:25:11.909 --> 01:25:22.630 She started having panic attacks, returned to binging and purging almost daily, and became fixated on exercise, running so much that she fractured her feet. 01:25:22.949 --> 01:25:36.309 In the film Winter, it does show her running pretty consistently as an outlet for her emotions, but it does not depict her fracturing her feet while doing so, though she does pass out at one point. 01:25:36.869 --> 01:25:41.189 Well, the gym became really the only place where her mind felt quiet. 01:25:41.189 --> 01:25:48.470 After language training, she moved on to military intelligence school at an Air Force base in San Angola, Texas. 01:25:48.470 --> 01:25:52.550 She was given her first assignment before leaving San Francisco. 01:25:52.550 --> 01:25:55.430 The Farsi team would be working under the NSA. 01:25:55.430 --> 01:26:07.750 What she hadn't known before enlisting is that cryptologic linguists were typically stationed at only two places Fort Meade in Maryland or Fort Gordon in Augusta, Georgia. 01:26:07.750 --> 01:26:11.909 She asked her superiors what she had to do to be stationed abroad. 01:26:11.909 --> 01:26:22.390 She was told that if linguists were deployed, it was typically alongside the army to Iraq or Afghanistan to help with interrogations or debriefings. 01:26:22.390 --> 01:26:30.470 This future was possible for her, but she had to finish her Air Force enlistment first before transferring branches. 01:26:30.869 --> 01:26:50.550 In the film Winner, the Air Force recruiter pitches her by telling her a story about basically being able to open the line of communication between soldiers and the civilians there and how beneficial that could be, and really frames it like you would be there in person helping

these people communicate. 01:26:50.550 --> 01:26:53.829 But it seems like that was not the case at all. 01:26:54.149 --> 01:26:56.470 And that is really what she wanted to do. 01:26:56.470 --> 01:27:04.309 After nearly a year and a half of training, Reality was stationed in Maryland and got her security clearance in early 2013. 01:27:04.309 --> 01:27:07.350 She was ready to put her language skills to use. 01:27:07.350 --> 01:27:18.309 The classified surveillance operation run by the NSA involved recording and archiving the content of virtually every cell phone call in Afghanistan. 01:27:18.309 --> 01:27:22.390 The scope of the program in Pakistan remains unknown. 01:27:22.390 --> 01:27:30.710 Conversation deemed concerning were routed to linguists like reality who transcribed them for intelligence databases. 01:27:30.710 --> 01:27:34.390 But the people reality listened to were not what she expected. 01:27:34.390 --> 01:27:38.710 Most of them weren't al-Qaeda or professional terrorists speaking in code. 01:27:38.710 --> 01:27:47.269 A lot of the conversations were painfully ordinary, people talking about their families, meals, weather, or daily frustrations. 01:27:47.269 --> 01:27:55.269 She started pulling up the real time greeny aerial videos of the people she was listening to in an effort to get more context. 01:27:55.269 --> 01:28:01.909 She wanted to learn the customs, politics, and rhythms of life in the country whose language she was translating. 01:28:01.909 --> 01:28:05.430 If a conversation seemed relevant, she typed a summary. 01:28:05.430 --> 01:28:13.029 Into a computer forum, and sometimes someone far, far away would act on it by ordering airstrikes. 01:28:13.029 --> 01:28:18.550 Over time, reality became horrified by how many people were being killed. 01:28:18.550 --> 01:28:24.949 Despite excelling at her job, she wasn't proud of being good at identifying who would die. 01:28:24.949 --> 01:28:32.069 What haunted her most were the civilian deaths, or as the military called them, collateral damage. 01:28:32.069 --> 01:28:39.189 To supplement her work, she watched Afghan news broadcasts and followed Taliban's social media accounts. 01:28:39.189 --> 01:28:41.670 Because yes, the Taliban has social media. 01:28:41.670 --> 01:28:42.949 Isn't that crazy? 01:28:43.269 --> 01:28:45.029 Yes, that is insane. 01:28:45.430 --> 01:28:49.269 Well, she began to notice movement patterns that troubled her. 01:28:49.269 --> 01:28:58.869 The NSA was routinely scheduling airstrikes when targets were traveling to and from conflict zones, often with their families. 01:28:58.869 --> 01:29:03.909 In some regions, the Taliban was actually actively fighting ISIS. 01:29:03.909 --> 01:29:11.269 It seemed that the US was inadvertently strengthening ISIS by their attacks on the Taliban. 01:29:11.590 --> 01:29:12.869 That's very interesting. 01:29:12.869 --> 01:29:16.550 It never even occurred to me that that could be the result of this. 01:29:16.789 --> 01:29:18.069 And it makes sense, right? 01:29:18.069 --> 01:29:25.909 If you have two enemies and your two enemies are also fighting each other, if you're targeting one of those, the other one is gonna get stronger. 01:29:25.909 --> 01:29:31.510 Meanwhile, political leaders on both sides claimed that the war was being won. 01:29:31.510 --> 01:29:35.430 But from reality's vantage point, that narrative felt like a lie. 01:29:35.750 --> 01:29:45.590 Oh, like how George Bush did that public announcement on an aircraft carrier saying mission accomplished when the Iraq war first started. 01:29:46.069 --> 01:29:54.390 No president is gonna go out there and say, well, we're involved in this really lengthy, costly war and we're losing. 01:29:54.710 --> 01:29:55.189 I don't know. 01:29:55.189 --> 01:30:02.630 I would kind of respect a president if he just came out and said, you know, folks, we're not doing too great, and just was honest for once. 01:30:02.869 --> 01:30:12.869 Given the top secret nature of her work, reality was prohibited from talking to anyone about anything she saw, heard, or translated. 01:30:12.869 --> 01:30:15.750 She had no choice but to suffer in silence. 01:30:15.750 --> 01:30:22.550 Here's a clip of her mom remembering the only time her daughter mentioned how deeply her work was impacting her. 01:30:23.029 --> 01:30:29.750 Only one conversation that I had with her did she ever let on how heavy her work was. 01:30:29.750 --> 01:30:42.390 I'll never forget because she said, you know, when you're watching somebody on your screen and that person goes, poof, you've got to make sure that you've got everything right. 01:30:43.269 --> 01:30:46.309 This is a lot for a person to keep inside of them. 01:30:46.309 --> 01:30:55.269 I cannot imagine not being able to talk about anything having to do with what you're doing eight hours a day, five days a week. 01:30:55.670 --> 01:31:03.350 Reality sought therapy in the summer of 2015 and was reassigned to another NSA posting in Augusta, Georgia. 01:31:03.350 --> 01:31:04.710 She loved it there. 01:31:04.710 --> 01:31:07.989 She developed a routine and worked fewer hours. 01:31:07.989 --> 01:31:19.670 By the time she received her reenlistment offer in September 2016, she had spent six years working as an Air Force cryptologic linguist, four of those with the NSA. 01:31:19.670 --> 01:31:27.189 The hope she had of getting to the Middle East collapsed when it started to look like Trump would win the 2016 election. 01:31:27.189 --> 01:31:35.350 She also spoke to a supervisor who bluntly told her that her military career would involve her sitting in a basement until she retired. 01:31:35.350 --> 01:31:40.390 There was no desirable path forward for her as a linguist in the military. 01:31:40.390 --> 01:31:44.149 The classified nature of her work posed another problem. 01:31:44.149 --> 01:31:49.029 Any resume she submitted had to be approved by the Air Force. 01:31:49.029 --> 01:31:55.430 And they

wouldn't let her mention anything about missions, intelligence work, or regional specialization. 01:31:55.750 --> 01:32:01.189 So it's like having something on your resume that you can't say anything about. 01:32:01.510 --> 01:32:04.710 It has to be like really, really, really watered down. 01:32:04.710 --> 01:32:18.309 And I think that's why in the clip from Winter, where it shows the person she's interviewing with for the job, and that lady says, Oh, you have a really impressive volunteer section, because that's the one thing she could actually expand on. 01:32:18.309 --> 01:32:27.109 Reality also lacked a traditional college degree, having spent her formative years in military training schools rather than universities. 01:32:27.109 --> 01:32:34.149 On paper, she wasn't competitive enough for the overseas humanitarian or policy work she wanted. 01:32:34.550 --> 01:32:37.350 Which is absolutely crazy. 01:32:37.350 --> 01:32:40.869 This woman was built for humanitarian work. 01:32:40.869 --> 01:32:45.670 It's all she wants to do, and they're not letting her do it for ridiculous reasons. 01:32:45.989 --> 01:32:51.269 In October 2016, Reality received an Air Force Commodation Medal. 01:32:51.269 --> 01:33:12.390 She was praised for assisting in the geolocation of 120 enemy combatants during 734 airstrikes, facilitating more than 800 intelligence missions, producing thousands of reports, aiding in hundreds of captures, and contributing to the deaths of more than 600 people. 01:33:12.390 --> 01:33:15.430 In other words, she was good at killing people. 01:33:15.829 --> 01:33:25.750 Yeah, I'm sure she would have preferred to get a medal in how many people she had saved as opposed to how many people she played a role in their deaths. 01:33:26.069 --> 01:33:31.670 Reality elected not to reenlist and was honorably discharged in November 2016. 01:33:31.670 --> 01:33:35.590 She started looking for contracting jobs to strengthen her resume. 01:33:35.590 --> 01:33:41.989 In December, Reality was visiting her family in Texas and planned to make a trip out to see her dad. 01:33:41.989 --> 01:33:46.390 By that time, he was in hospice at her half-sister Nikki's home. 01:33:46.390 --> 01:33:52.789 His health had been deteriorating for years, with dementia taking his memory and ability to speak. 01:33:52.789 --> 01:33:55.430 She never got to make that final visit. 01:33:55.430 --> 01:33:59.829 Just four days before Christmas, he fell out of his bed and died. 01:33:59.829 --> 01:34:08.630 While processing the loss of her father, Reality got a call from Pluribus International Corporation, a Defense Department contracting company. 01:34:08.630 --> 01:34:16.390 She signed a one-year contract and started orientation in Augusta, Georgia on February 9th, 2017. 01:34:16.390 --> 01:34:22.470 Her job involved translating Farsi documents related to Iran's aerospace program. 01:34:22.470 --> 01:34:33.670 On her first day, she took a slip of paper with her already changed temporary email password to the Starbucks in the downstairs cafeteria because she didn't even have a desk yet. 01:34:33.670 --> 01:34:37.109 So there's nowhere she could have even left the piece of paper. 01:34:37.430 --> 01:34:39.350 Yeah, that's completely understandable. 01:34:39.350 --> 01:34:42.630 It was her first day, she needed her password, and she went to get a coffee. 01:34:42.869 --> 01:34:44.550 And she didn't even leave the building. 01:34:44.550 --> 01:34:51.350 But because the cafeteria was downstairs, no one had told her that that area was out of the secure perimeter. 01:34:51.670 --> 01:34:53.590 Then that was a complete accident. 01:34:53.909 --> 01:34:58.550 And she was written up for this, but she only had to watch a PowerPoint presentation. 01:34:58.550 --> 01:35:02.710 Nonetheless, it reinforced how rigid the environment would be. 01:35:02.710 --> 01:35:06.470 The job itself was mind-numbingly slow. 01:35:06.470 --> 01:35:14.069 Like Edward Snowden, reality had hours to kill every day and started perusing the NSA's internal internet. 01:35:14.069 --> 01:35:20.069 She also started listening to a podcast from the Intercept called Intercepted. 01:35:20.390 --> 01:35:21.269 Clever. 01:35:21.670 --> 01:35:26.550 It was hosted by journalists specializing in foreign affairs and national security. 01:35:26.550 --> 01:35:34.789 For reality, it became a lifeline, a welcome distraction from the growing political climate she disagreed with to her core. 01:35:34.789 --> 01:35:41.670 At one point, she even emailed the publication for a transcript of an episode about climate change. 01:35:41.670 --> 01:35:54.390 On May 9, 2017, Reality came across a five-page classified intelligence report detailing Russian-directed cyber attacks on VR Systems, a U.S. 01:35:54.390 --> 01:35:57.909 company that sold voter registration software. 01:35:57.909 --> 01:36:06.550 The document described two cyberattacks carried out by Russians' military intelligence agency during the 2016 election. 01:36:06.550 --> 01:36:17.590 Essentially, Russian operatives first sent phishing emails to employees at VR Systems and successfully obtained login credentials from at least one staff member. 01:36:17.590 --> 01:36:29.670 Using that access, they sent malware-infected emails to more than 100 election officials, disguising the messages to appear as if they came from the legitimate vendor. 01:36:29.670 --> 01:36:38.149 For months, reality had watched the public debate swirl around whether Russia had attempted to undermine American democracy. 01:36:38.149 --> 01:36:45.350 And now, she and thousands upon thousands of other federal employees now had concrete proof. 01:36:45.350 --> 01:36:49.590 To her, this seemed like something the public deserved to know. 01:36:49.590 --> 01:36:53.670 A document that could shut down this pesky debate once and for all. 01:36:53.670 --> 01:36:58.789 There was also the fact that everyone at her office was openly talking about it. 01:36:58.789

--> 01:37:08.869 It was the most read item on NSA Pulse, an internal platform similar to Twitter that showed which reports were trending among intelligence staff. 01:37:09.189 --> 01:37:14.949 In the movie Winner, this is kind of streamlined to her just opening files on her desktop. 01:37:15.269 --> 01:37:18.069 Yeah, she didn't set out searching for this document. 01:37:18.069 --> 01:37:28.069 This was an internal feed that everyone at the NSA had access to, and this document just showed up as number one, as the most read document. 01:37:28.069 --> 01:37:38.470 During this time, the Trump administration was also seeing unprecedented levels of leaked information, more than the past three years combined. 01:37:38.470 --> 01:37:46.069 Reality assumed it was only a matter of time before someone would bring this document to light, if it hadn't been done already. 01:37:46.069 --> 01:37:58.069 Later that same day, the same day she saw this document, Trump fired FBI director James Comey, who was leading the investigation into Russian election interference. 01:37:58.069 --> 01:38:03.670 Reality imagined the possibility that reports like this one would be buried or destroyed. 01:38:03.670 --> 01:38:06.069 So she decided to print a copy. 01:38:06.069 --> 01:38:10.710 That way, at least one would exist outside a classified server. 01:38:10.710 --> 01:38:11.909 Isn't that crazy? 01:38:11.909 --> 01:38:21.430 The day this document starts trending is the same day that the FBI director looking into the same topic that this document is about is fired. 01:38:21.750 --> 01:38:29.029 It does not surprise me in the least that this man was fired for trying to do his job in this situation. 01:38:29.430 --> 01:38:35.109 I know, but Trump didn't know that this was showing up on NSA servers as the number one document. 01:38:35.109 --> 01:38:39.189 It's just such a weird coincidence that these two things happened the same day. 01:38:39.189 --> 01:38:50.789 Well, when there was no news of a document leak the next morning, reality printed it, folded it in half, stuck it in her pantyhose, and smuggled it out of the facility. 01:38:50.789 --> 01:38:59.590 After teaching yoga class, she slipped it into a parking lot mailbox without leaving a return address or any identifying information. 01:38:59.590 --> 01:39:02.470 The document was on its way to the Intercept. 01:39:02.789 --> 01:39:07.510 I forgot to mention in my part that she sent the document out anonymously. 01:39:07.829 --> 01:39:14.869 And the reason why she chose the Intercept is they were known for their standout security protocols. 01:39:14.869 --> 01:39:26.949 For example, for the Snowden documents, they kept all those files in a locked room that was being video recorded at all times, and you couldn't go in there alone. 01:39:27.350 --> 01:39:31.909 I mean, this seems like the logical place to send out these documents to. 01:39:31.909 --> 01:40:05.269 You mentioned this to me off mic a little while ago, that reality is incredibly naive throughout this situation. 01:40:05.269 --> 01:40:11.829 And this is a pretty prime example, thinking that you're just gonna get a slap on the wrist for this sort of thing. 01:40:12.149 --> 01:40:13.029 It really is. 01:40:13.029 --> 01:40:20.869 That and her not realizing why the FBI was at her house that day and what their true intentions and motivations were. 01:40:21.350 --> 01:40:27.029 Yeah, she didn't seem to really grasp the severity of doing this sort of thing. 01:40:27.350 --> 01:40:31.189 The political climate no doubt contributed to her decision. 01:40:31.189 --> 01:40:38.390 She strongly agreed with much of the policies being enacted, including military actions overseas. 01:40:38.390 --> 01:40:50.229 She also believed this document shouldn't have been classified in the first place, since Russian election interference was everywhere on the news and any potential damage had already been done. 01:40:50.229 --> 01:40:55.590 There really wasn't anything in there that she thought pose a national security risk. 01:40:56.309 --> 01:41:15.029 Because in 2017, that was there was one question that was being asked every single day, and it was not something that we had as a nation really um had faced before. 01:41:15.029 --> 01:41:31.989 Like people, it was just one debate that was going on, and I honestly felt like it was the NSA's job, or at least it was someone in the government's job, to lay bare the actual facts for everybody. 01:41:31.989 --> 01:41:41.909 I get just felt like that was their responsibility instead of letting it foment to such a toxic level that things weren't getting done. 01:41:42.390 --> 01:41:47.750 So it sounds like she was just sick and tired of hearing everybody argue about it. 01:41:47.750 --> 01:41:51.590 And she was just like, here it is, here's the proof. 01:41:51.590 --> 01:41:54.390 Can we just shut up about it and move on? 01:41:54.710 --> 01:41:56.149 Yeah, here's the answer. 01:41:56.149 --> 01:42:02.710 The NSA and so many other people had access to put this debate to rest and no one was doing it. 01:42:02.710 --> 01:42:09.750 And she's like, What is going to hurt national security by showing, yes, this did happen? 01:42:09.750 --> 01:42:12.229 Trump wasn't involved per the document. 01:42:12.229 --> 01:42:14.630 It was just this phishing scam. 01:42:15.029 --> 01:42:22.550 And we do need to clarify that the documents did not prove that Russia interfered in the elections. 01:42:22.550 --> 01:42:27.269 It just proved that they attempted to interfere in the elections. 01:42:27.590 --> 01:42:32.470 After mailing the document, days passed with nothing about it on the news. 01:42:32.470 --> 01:42:38.949 Reality continued to go to work as normal, frustrated that she risked losing her job for nothing. 01:42:38.949 --> 01:42:45.510 One day, she got an email from a small airline advertising heavily discounted flights to Tel Aviv. 01:42:45.510 --> 01:42:51.670 She clicked the link and

perused other flights to some of the places she had always wanted to visit. 01:42:51.670 --> 01:42:57.189 Needing a change of scenery, she settled on a trip to Belize for Memorial Day weekend. 01:42:57.189 --> 01:43:01.590 It was closer, cheaper, and a place of personal significance. 01:43:01.590 --> 01:43:09.989 Her dad had always been fascinated by the disappearance of the ancient Mayan civilization in the country, but he never got to go visit himself. 01:43:09.989 --> 01:43:13.350 The trip was a chance to get away and to honor him. 01:43:13.350 --> 01:43:19.909 While reality was in or planning her trip to Belize, the Intercepts office in Washington, D.C. 01:43:19.909 --> 01:43:25.109 was looking into the five-page document that landed in their rarely checked P.O. 01:43:25.109 --> 01:43:25.670 box. 01:43:26.069 --> 01:43:27.590 They don't check the mail often? 01:43:27.590 --> 01:43:28.949 Hire a mail clerk. 01:43:29.269 --> 01:43:33.590 Yeah, it was thought that it had been in there for a couple weeks before they even found it. 01:43:33.590 --> 01:43:39.670 The document was labeled Top Secret and marked SI for Special Intelligence. 01:43:39.670 --> 01:43:53.670 Instead of going through the top-notch security team, who didn't even learn about the report until after it was released, it was handed over to two relatively new reporters, Matthew Cole and Richard Espesotto. 01:43:53.670 --> 01:44:02.949 Both came from television news and had no experience in digital security protocols or the handling of classified documents. 01:44:02.949 --> 01:44:15.029 For days, Cole questioned whether the document might be a hoax, since it wasn't from a cultivated source and no one had reached out to them about it through the secure online platform. 01:44:15.029 --> 01:44:23.590 In an attempt to authenticate the document, Cole contacted the NSA's head of public affairs on May 30th, 2017. 01:44:23.909 --> 01:44:30.229 Wait, so he just called the NSA and was like, hey, did you guys send a document to us? 01:44:30.550 --> 01:44:32.710 No, so he wasn't asking if they sent it. 01:44:32.710 --> 01:44:38.390 He was trying to see if this document was real, which actually isn't unheard of or uncommon. 01:44:38.390 --> 01:44:42.869 What is uncommon is the steps he took next to authenticate it. 01:44:42.869 --> 01:44:48.470 So he said the Intercept had a classified report concerning Russian election interference. 01:44:48.470 --> 01:44:49.510 That's fine. 01:44:49.510 --> 01:44:55.989 When the NSA spokesperson asked to see it, he sent photographs of the printed pages. 01:44:55.989 --> 01:45:06.309 What he should have done is retype the text or paraphrase it, which is the standard protocol for verifying sensitive material while protecting the source. 01:45:06.309 --> 01:45:17.909 Instead, because he sent pictures of the actual pages, the NSA could see the crease down the middle from where reality folded it, which alerted them to the fact that it was printed. 01:45:17.909 -->

01:45:30.309 Also, most modern-day printers use identification marks that can't be seen with the naked eye, but include the serial number of the printer that was used and the date and time that it was printed. 01:45:30.630 --> 01:45:36.630 I knew it was gonna be something like a code of numbers that revealed where and when it was printed. 01:45:36.630 --> 01:45:38.149 But that is crazy. 01:45:38.149 --> 01:45:42.229 I had no idea they could basically have it made with invisible ink. 01:45:42.470 --> 01:45:44.149 I had no idea either. 01:45:44.550 --> 01:45:47.029 And they got all this from a crease. 01:45:47.029 --> 01:45:49.109 That's incredible. 01:45:49.430 --> 01:45:54.149 The NSA then contacted the FBI on June 1st, 2017. 01:45:54.149 --> 01:45:58.470 And it did not take long for them to pinpoint the source of the leak. 01:45:58.470 --> 01:46:02.149 Only six people in Augusta had printed that report. 01:46:02.149 --> 01:46:12.390 Among those six, only one had communicated with the Intercept using a government computer because she emailed them asking for that podcast transcript. 01:46:12.710 --> 01:46:15.430 Wow, that really came back to bite her in the ass. 01:46:15.829 --> 01:46:25.109 June 3, 2017, just a few days after she came back from Belize, began as an ordinary Saturday for Reality Winner. 01:46:25.109 --> 01:46:33.510 She was at the gym by 6:30, had lunch with the guy she was crushing on, went grocery shopping, and got home around 2 o'clock. 01:46:33.510 --> 01:46:39.750 Immediately after, FBI special agents Wally Taylor and Justin Garrick pulled in. 01:46:39.750 --> 01:46:47.029 They told her they needed to talk to her about an investigation involving mishandling of classified information. 01:46:47.029 --> 01:46:52.149 Reality thought they probably knew something, but perhaps not everything. 01:46:52.149 --> 01:46:59.750 Maybe she could stall, figure out what they knew, talk to a lawyer, and figure out how to professionally survive this. 01:47:00.229 --> 01:47:02.630 That ain't gonna work with the FBI. 01:47:03.189 --> 01:47:11.829 Reality and the agents waited outside while countless others cleared her house and seized all of her electronics and personal diaries. 01:47:11.829 --> 01:47:17.670 For the next three hours, they sat on the living room floor while they questioned her. 01:47:17.670 --> 01:47:21.029 At first, the conversation didn't seem that scary. 01:47:21.029 --> 01:47:30.309 She was told her participation was voluntary, and the agents built rapport by talking about their careers, workouts, and pets. 01:47:30.630 --> 01:47:32.069 Relating to her. 01:47:53.829 --> 01:48:03.189 She acknowledged accessing information that she didn't technically need to know by sometimes watching drone footage of missions that her friends were working on. 01:48:03.189 --> 01:48:11.029 She occasionally printed out documents, another no-no, because she found it easier to transcribe them by hand. 01:48:11.029 --> 01:48:19.510 She also mentioned

that she downloaded the secure server tour, but only accessed it once because she was curious about WikiLeaks. 01:48:19.510 --> 01:48:23.109 She also gave them the passwords to her computers. 01:48:23.109 --> 01:48:30.149 Through it all, she adamantly denied ever taking anything classified out of an NSA facility. 01:48:30.149 --> 01:48:36.229 At this point, the agents told her they knew she leaked the report and just wanted to understand why. 01:48:36.229 --> 01:48:41.510 And she believed them, thinking they would understand that she did it for benign reasons. 01:48:41.510 --> 01:48:52.229 After she told them everything, she was allowed to call her parents and someone to take care of her pets before being carted off to the Lincoln County Detention Center in federal custody. 01:48:52.550 --> 01:48:56.149 She was not allowed to do that in the film Reality. 01:48:56.550 --> 01:48:59.989 Reality was indicted at her arraignment two days later. 01:48:59.989 --> 01:49:14.229 Her attorney, Titus Nichols, was assigned to the case just minutes before, since he was the only federal public defender in all of Georgia who had the security clearance to even review the classified material connected to the case. 01:49:14.550 --> 01:49:19.029 So is he just in the lobby and someone's like, get in there! You got a trial. 01:49:19.350 --> 01:49:22.309 A lot of times offices are in the courthouse. 01:49:22.309 --> 01:49:28.710 So yeah, they gave him the case and was like, She's gonna get charged with this crime in five minutes. 01:49:28.710 --> 01:49:30.149 Go down there and meet her. 01:49:30.470 --> 01:49:33.510 Talk about feeling overwhelmed in a hurry. 01:49:33.510 --> 01:49:36.869 This is quite the case to get slapped in your lap. 01:49:37.109 --> 01:49:45.590 During the brief hearing, the judge read from transcripts of jailhouse phone calls to her mom that reality didn't realize were being recorded. 01:49:45.909 --> 01:49:49.670 She didn't realize that her jailhouse phone calls were being recorded? 01:49:49.989 --> 01:49:58.710 So another person in jail let her call her mom using her pin, so she might have missed the this message is being recorded, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 01:49:58.710 --> 01:50:05.590 Based on a conversation about her finances, she was told that the government would not be paying for her. 01:50:05.590 --> 01:50:07.350 Legal representation. 01:50:07.350 --> 01:50:12.869 Luckily, Nichols said he would stay on the case with the help of another attorney named John Bell. 01:50:12.869 --> 01:50:16.229 He initially decided to do so pro bono. 01:50:16.229 --> 01:50:24.149 I'm not sure if he got paid or how much he got paid, but as I mentioned in a few minutes, she did get financial legal help. 01:50:24.149 --> 01:50:30.470 About an hour after the hearing, the Intercept published their article about the classified report. 01:50:30.789 --> 01:50:31.989 What timing? 01:50:32.309 --> 01:50:42.550 Again, it was done by just including a scan copy of the

printed pages, even though the NSIA warned them that they were searching for the source of the leak. 01:50:42.949 --> 01:50:47.670 How lazy are the people down at the Intercept that they're not willing to just type up an article? 01:50:47.670 --> 01:50:49.989 Okay, we scanned it in, let's print it. 01:50:50.309 --> 01:50:57.350 And if the security team would have been consulted at any point, they probably would have recommended doing that. 01:50:57.670 --> 01:50:59.750 That seems like common sense, yeah. 01:51:00.069 --> 01:51:08.229 Around the same time, the Attorney General released its own statement describing the leak as a threat to national security. 01:51:08.229 --> 01:51:19.269 Historically, defendants charged under the Espionage Act had been granted bail, since the crime is classified as a nonviolent white-collar offense. 01:51:19.269 --> 01:51:22.550 But reality's release hearing went differently. 01:51:22.550 --> 01:51:25.590 Her defense team came in at a disadvantage. 01:51:25.590 --> 01:51:33.989 They still needed security clearances to even review the classified evidence and didn't know the scope of what the government had against her. 01:51:34.309 --> 01:51:36.550 How were they allowed to proceed then? 01:51:36.550 --> 01:51:37.430 That's crazy. 01:51:37.430 --> 01:51:39.750 They couldn't even review the evidence? 01:51:40.069 --> 01:51:49.029 It's just a release hearing, and it had been five days since she'd been arrested, so they're not really arguing anything having to do about the report. 01:51:49.029 --> 01:51:52.470 It's just whether she poses a danger and should or shouldn't be released. 01:51:52.470 --> 01:51:53.750 It still sucks for them. 01:51:53.750 --> 01:51:55.269 They should know a little bit more. 01:51:55.269 --> 01:51:58.149 I guess you could argue it's not necessary at this point. 01:51:58.470 --> 01:52:04.550 Yeah, but at what point are they allowed to know the details of what their client is being accused of? 01:52:04.550 --> 01:52:05.829 I mean, this is crazy. 01:52:06.149 --> 01:52:08.789 Once those security clearances come through. 01:52:08.789 --> 01:52:13.430 So the defense was essentially going into this release hearing blind. 01:52:13.430 --> 01:52:17.109 But the prosecution, they were well prepared for battle. 01:52:17.109 --> 01:52:21.829 They painted reality as a highly dangerous national security threat. 01:52:21.829 --> 01:52:27.430 In their words, what they found in or her house was, quote, downright frightening. 01:52:27.430 --> 01:52:33.350 They referenced the tour browser, noting how it was often used to access the dark web. 01:52:33.350 --> 01:52:42.550 Social media posts criticizing Trump and sarcastic texts to her sister were spun as proof of her deep hatred of the United States. 01:52:42.550 --> 01:52:45.989 They cited entries from her personal journals. 01:52:45.989 --> 01:52:53.430 In one, she had written, I want to burn the White House down, find somewhere in Kurdistan to live or Nepal. 01:52:53.430 --> 01:52:55.269 Ha ha, maybe. 01:52:55.269 --> 01:53:12.710 Her browser history was submitted, showing that she Googled flights to Iraq and Jordan, looked up job postings in the Middle East, and visited Taliban news sites and Afghan papers, omitting that the later searches were done while she was working with the NSA to supplement her work. 01:53:13.109 --> 01:53:18.470 So they're trying to frame her as a possible terrorist sympathizer. 01:53:18.789 --> 01:53:24.069 Even her early interest in learning Middle Eastern languages was used against her. 01:53:24.069 --> 01:53:30.630 To the prosecution, this all proved that reality wanted to be anywhere but the United States. 01:53:30.630 --> 01:53:39.829 Lastly, her travel interest, childhood trips to Mexico, and recent trip to Belize was introduced as proof she might flee. 01:53:40.229 --> 01:53:44.550 Because she took vacations before she was accused of anything. 01:53:44.949 --> 01:53:48.949 And because she wanted to travel, which I think most people want to travel. 01:53:49.350 --> 01:53:53.750 Yeah, I don't think I'd be granted bail under those circumstances. 01:53:54.069 --> 01:53:56.309 Her defense team tried to push back. 01:53:56.309 --> 01:54:03.909 They called her parents as character witnesses, and they offered to post her bond by using their house and land as collateral. 01:54:03.909 --> 01:54:10.229 They promised to take responsibility for her and make sure she didn't miss a single court appearance. 01:54:10.229 --> 01:54:17.269 On cross-examination, the prosecutions implied that Billy and Greg didn't know reality at all. 01:54:17.269 --> 01:54:27.750 Her career and secretive nature of it was spun as proof of her quote, fractured personality, unquote, and sympathy with extremists. 01:54:27.750 --> 01:54:31.109 In closing arguments, assistant U.S. 01:54:31.109 --> 01:54:41.590 Attorney Jennifer Solari even argued that if reality was released, she might try to burn down the White House, move to Afghanistan, and join the Taliban. 01:54:42.390 --> 01:54:45.269 That seems pretty extreme. 01:54:45.590 --> 01:54:46.390 It's insane. 01:54:46.710 --> 01:54:49.510 So they're just using scare tactics, basically. 01:54:49.909 --> 01:54:50.869 And it worked. 01:54:50.869 --> 01:55:03.510 Twenty-five-year-old reality winner was the first civilian defendant accused of leaking information to the media under the Espionage Act to ever be denied pretrial release. 01:55:03.909 --> 01:55:06.630 And she was not a flight risk. 01:55:06.630 --> 01:55:13.670 This woman did not have all the resources in the world to just escape to another country and disappear. 01:55:13.989 --> 01:55:19.109 Nor did she have the personality or desire to do so. 01:55:19.109 --> 01:55:23.829 In the days and weeks that followed, reality was a media sensation. 01:55:23.829 --> 01:55:34.229 Mainstream outlets scored through her social media history, she was mocked for her name and appearance, dismissed as a joke, or

slammed as a traitor. 01:55:34.229 --> 01:55:42.069 To get a taste of what was out there, here's some clips from the late show with Stephen Colbert and the Daily Show with Trevor Noah. 01:55:44.470 --> 01:55:48.710 The leaker's name, and this is true, Reality Winner. 01:55:48.710 --> 01:55:51.189 So it's official. 01:55:51.189 --> 01:56:02.229 So a young female spy named Reality Winner stole intelligence from the Plurbus Corporation. 01:56:02.229 --> 01:56:08.470 That sounds like a James Bond movie, which of course makes Donald Trump small finger. 01:56:11.189 --> 01:56:11.829 Oh, okay. 01:56:11.829 --> 01:56:15.670 Look, if you're confused right now, it's because you're paying attention. 01:56:15.670 --> 01:56:17.269 Let me try to explain. 01:56:17.269 --> 01:56:23.269 What happened was someone leaked top secret information about Russia to the press. 01:56:23.269 --> 01:56:27.670 And that person's name is Reality Winner. 01:56:27.670 --> 01:56:32.710 Their real name is Reality Winner. 01:56:32.710 --> 01:56:35.750 And I mean, how is this real life? 01:56:35.750 --> 01:56:37.989 You know what it feels like right now? 01:56:37.989 --> 01:56:41.909 It feels like God had a midlife crisis and he quit his day job to make a web series. 01:56:41.909 --> 01:56:43.510 That's what this feels like. 01:56:44.869 --> 01:56:50.309 These are prime examples of why I do not watch late-night talk shows. 01:56:50.710 --> 01:56:54.789 And I hope they feel pretty bad for making these jokes about her name. 01:56:54.789 --> 01:56:56.390 Like, come on, guys. 01:56:56.390 --> 01:57:05.590 Although her parents were discouraged from talking to the media, they quickly realized they had to if they wanted people to know who their daughter really was. 01:57:06.229 --> 01:57:07.269 She's a good girl. 01:57:07.269 --> 01:57:08.309 She's a good person. 01:57:08.309 --> 01:57:12.069 She's never been in trouble with anyone or the law or anything. 01:57:12.069 --> 01:57:13.350 She always does what's right. 01:57:13.350 --> 01:57:14.470 She serves her country. 01:57:14.470 --> 01:57:16.229 She was in the Air Force for six years. 01:57:16.229 --> 01:57:19.029 Um, she she is a good person. 01:57:19.029 --> 01:57:23.670 She volunteers, she does whatever she can to make the community and the world better. 01:57:24.069 --> 01:57:40.390 This is depicted in the film Winner as the mom basically going a bat for reality because her daughter can't tell her side of the events, and she does a lot of appearances and really, really tries to advocate for reality. 01:57:40.789 --> 01:57:48.550 Well, because all she was seeing are people that are making fun of her daughter because of her name or how she looks or being slammed as a traitor. 01:57:48.550 --> 01:57:50.869 And she's like, that's not the full story. 01:57:50.869 --> 01:57:52.710 This is who my daughter is. 01:57:53.029 --> 01:57:59.350 Yeah, it's pretty stupid that everyone just focused on the name and not actually what the person did. 01:57:59.750 --> 01:58:04.390 At the same time, the Intercept was handling their own fallout. 01:58:04.390 --> 01:58:10.149 Reports surface that the head of operational security wasn't consulted at all. 01:58:10.149 --> 01:58:18.630 Outside organizations slammed the publication for not following the necessary precautions the publication so prided itself for. 01:58:18.949 --> 01:58:21.989 Yeah, this looks really bad for their reputation. 01:58:22.390 --> 01:58:30.710 The Intercept released a statement saying the allegations against Reality Winner had not been proven and that it wouldn't make any further comment. 01:58:30.710 --> 01:58:44.789 Soon after, editor-in-chief Betsy Reed issued another statement taking responsibility for, quote, this failure, and acknowledged that the organization's practices had fallen short of their standards. 01:58:44.789 --> 01:58:51.590 The publication conducted an internal review, but employees were instructed to not talk to the press. 01:58:51.590 --> 01:59:01.109 Co-founder Laura Portress did not heed this advice and was fired after expressing her dissatisfaction with how the report was handled. 01:59:01.510 --> 01:59:02.949 They fired her? 01:59:03.189 --> 01:59:04.309 They fired her. 01:59:04.309 --> 01:59:05.909 And they did fuck up. 01:59:05.909 --> 01:59:15.750 The whole reason she was caught was because the security team didn't consult security at all and just sent photos of this document everywhere. 01:59:16.309 --> 01:59:26.710 Proper procedures were not followed at all in this situation, and Laura should not be punished for simply telling the truth in this circumstance. 01:59:27.029 --> 01:59:31.750 Especially when she essentially just said the same thing the editor-in-chief did. 01:59:31.750 --> 01:59:39.269 Within a week of the release hearing, the government offered a plea bargain of five years in federal prison. 01:59:39.269 --> 01:59:43.029 To reality and her supporters, this was beyond harsh. 01:59:43.029 --> 01:59:50.789 Other public officials who mishandled classified information typically got off with probation or minimal sentences. 01:59:50.789 --> 02:00:05.029 For example, in 2016, retired Marine General James Cartwright pled guilty to giving the New York Times information about a cyber operation targeting Iran's nuclear program. 02:00:05.029 --> 02:00:15.189 He was sentenced to six months in jail, but almost immediately he was pardoned by President Obama, who also restored his security clearance. 02:00:15.189 --> 02:00:25.430 Although reality was facing up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, she decided to not take the deal. 02:00:25.430 --> 02:00:27.430 Public support was growing. 02:00:27.430 --> 02:00:45.510 A GoFundMe had raised over $12,000, and the freedom of the Press Foundation, whose board of directors included Edward Snowden and oddly nowadays John Cusack offered to help fund her defense along with the Intercept's parent company, First Look Media. 02:00:45.909 --> 02:00:50.149

We just discussed him a few episodes back in Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. 02:00:50.149 --> 02:00:55.109 I would not have expected any connection between him and Edward Snowden. 02:00:55.350 --> 02:01:01.510 Yeah, so now he's kind of rivaling Bill Camp with how many podcast episodes he's been mentioned in. 02:01:01.909 --> 02:01:05.350 I look forward to John Cusack's biography one day. 02:01:05.350 --> 02:01:08.789 He seems like he has had a pretty interesting life. 02:01:09.189 --> 02:01:16.229 Despite this public support, defending a national security case poses unique challenges. 02:01:16.229 --> 02:01:25.189 All the attorneys needed to have security clearances and couldn't talk about the case outside of secure phone lines and emails. 02:01:25.510 --> 02:01:28.550 This seems like a red tape nightmare. 02:01:28.789 --> 02:01:30.069 It gets worse. 02:01:30.069 --> 02:01:39.430 Meetings had to be done in sealed rooms called sensitive compartmented information facilities, and so I don't have to say that phrase again. 02:01:39.430 --> 02:01:42.390 I'm going to call these SCIFs. 02:01:42.390 --> 02:01:50.229 Since reality's legal team was scattered across the mid and eastern United States, arranging meetings was difficult. 02:01:50.229 --> 02:01:53.350 Even more so if they wanted reality to attend. 02:01:53.350 --> 02:01:59.189 She couldn't just call in from jail or meet with her attorneys in jail, as normal defendants can do. 02:01:59.189 --> 02:02:09.670 Most of the time, reality met with people from her legal team in a converted supply closet inside the courthouse that was made into one of these CSIFs. 02:02:09.989 --> 02:02:15.510 Wait, so a CSIF can just be a supply closet when it comes down to it? 02:02:15.829 --> 02:02:17.750 They had to convert it into one. 02:02:17.750 --> 02:02:28.710 I don't know what that means really, but they did that because otherwise, the only places these CSIFs are are inside secure NSA facilities. 02:02:28.710 --> 02:02:31.029 You need security clearance to get inside those. 02:02:31.269 --> 02:02:37.109 I'm just picturing her talking to her lawyer in a room that has like a bucket and a mop next to her. 02:02:37.430 --> 02:02:40.309 That and insulated walls is what I'm assuming. 02:02:40.710 --> 02:02:44.630 And one dangling overhead light with a pull string. 02:02:45.029 --> 02:02:58.149 Even though security clearances were taking longer than expected, the judge refused to delay trial dates beyond the delay he granted after the defense's appeal of the bail decision was denied. 02:02:58.149 --> 02:03:11.670 By the spring of 2018, Reality's legal team advised her to take the new plea deal, which had increased by three more months than the last one, with credit for time served and three years of probation. 02:03:11.670 --> 02:03:20.949 As we talked about in our last episode, to be convicted under the Espionage Act, the government only has to prove that classified information was disclosed. 02:03:20.949 -->

02:03:25.269 Motive doesn't matter, and the evidence against reality was indisputable. 02:03:25.269 --> 02:03:28.229 She signed a plea deal in August 2018. 02:03:28.229 --> 02:03:41.029 Despite being promised to serve her time at the facility of her choosing, the Federal Medical Center in Carswell, Texas, Reality First had to undergo diesel therapy, which we already talked about. 02:03:41.029 --> 02:03:45.989 She was first sent to the Baker County Detention Center in Florida. 02:03:45.989 --> 02:03:53.269 She was put in solitary confinement, reportedly for her protection, since she was a high-profile inmate. 02:03:53.269 --> 02:04:01.269 After eight days, she demanded to speak to the warden and pled her case about why she should be in general population. 02:04:01.269 --> 02:04:05.189 Essentially, what she said is, This is an ice facility. 02:04:05.189 --> 02:04:06.069 That's right. 02:04:06.069 --> 02:04:09.829 Reality Winner was moved to an ICE detainment facility. 02:04:09.829 --> 02:04:13.590 So she's like, most of the people in here don't speak English. 02:04:13.590 --> 02:04:15.590 Why would they know who I was? 02:04:15.590 --> 02:04:25.829 She was moved to Genpop, but immediately transferred to a jail in Oklahoma before finally arriving at Carswell in November 2018. 02:04:25.829 --> 02:04:31.670 For the first time in months, her parents finally could visit and knew where she was. 02:04:31.909 --> 02:04:34.069 This is depicted in the film Winner. 02:04:34.069 --> 02:04:42.869 Her mother is calling prisons all over the place trying to locate where her daughter is so she can see her and speak to her. 02:04:43.189 --> 02:04:46.149 Reality settled into a routine in prison. 02:04:46.149 --> 02:04:52.710 She got a job as a fitness instructor and incorporated nutrition into her classes. 02:04:53.269 --> 02:04:55.989 What did she talk about as far as nutrition? 02:04:55.989 --> 02:04:57.670 I mean, they were incarcerated. 02:04:57.670 --> 02:05:03.269 I figured nutrition was not the easiest thing to maintain in a situation like that. 02:05:03.670 --> 02:05:04.470 So it's not. 02:05:04.470 --> 02:05:07.109 And remember, reality struggles with bulimia. 02:05:07.109 --> 02:05:09.430 So nutrition is something that's very important to her. 02:05:09.430 --> 02:05:11.670 Her relationship with food is distorted. 02:05:11.670 --> 02:05:21.109 So what she was including in her classes is how to eat healthy in prison, and also importantly, how to eat healthy on a budget once you're released. 02:05:21.430 --> 02:05:23.269 That's very admirable. 02:05:23.590 --> 02:05:31.670 She was doing pretty well until she awoke to a female correctional officer touching her while she was sleeping in early 2020. 02:05:31.670 --> 02:05:40.229 She filed a complaint under the Prison Rape Elimination Act, but it wasn't even investigated until a few months before her release. 02:05:40.229 --> 02:05:41.909 And then COVID hit. 02:05:41.909 --> 02:05:48.069 As you can imagine, the disease was rampant in closed quarters like jails and prisons. 02:05:48.069 --> 02:05:54.789 Extended lockdowns left inmates isolated, stagnant, and desperate for stimulation. 02:05:54.789 --> 02:06:02.390 Reality started binging and purging again after a year of not doing it and began taking benzos and K2. 02:06:03.029 --> 02:06:09.909 I think a lot of people reverted to some bad habits when they were stuck indoors for two years during that time. 02:06:10.229 --> 02:06:13.109 Well, and it's even worse for people in prison. 02:06:13.109 --> 02:06:16.390 They were not only stuck indoors, they were stuck in their cells. 02:06:16.390 --> 02:06:22.390 They couldn't be let out for showers, they couldn't be let out for exercise time, they couldn't be let out for meals. 02:06:22.390 --> 02:06:27.670 They were essentially given sack lunches to eat in their cells for months. 02:06:27.989 --> 02:06:32.229 I was going nuts and I had a whole apartment and the outdoors. 02:06:32.630 --> 02:06:44.630 On April 24th, 2020, a federal judge rejected her request to commute the remaining 19 months of her sentence to home confinement due to COVID-19 risks. 02:06:44.630 --> 02:06:55.029 Her attorneys argue that her history of respiratory illness combined with immune complications linked to bulimia made her especially vulnerable to the virus. 02:06:55.029 --> 02:06:57.989 And she did, while she was in there, get it twice. 02:06:57.989 --> 02:07:11.670 On June 2nd, 2021, one day before the fourth anniversary of her arrest, Reality was released and transferred to the Residential Reentry Management Center in San Antonio, Texas. 02:07:11.670 --> 02:07:17.750 After six months, she was given an ankle monitor and released her parents on house arrest. 02:07:17.750 --> 02:07:33.430 Whenever she wanted to leave, she had to give the exact address and phone number of where she was going, the exact three-hour window that she wanted to be gone from her house for, and call whenever she left or arrived at either location. 02:07:33.909 --> 02:07:36.470 This is a lot of overkill right here. 02:07:36.949 --> 02:07:40.229 Can you imagine if she wanted to go to Walmart? 02:07:40.229 --> 02:07:49.909 She had to say when she was going, and then call before she left the house, when she got to Walmart, when she left Walmart, and when she got home. 02:07:49.909 --> 02:08:33.590 And that is the true story of Reality Winner. 02:08:33.590 --> 02:08:35.029 What do you think, Remy? 02:08:35.670 --> 02:08:50.789 I think Reality is a genuinely good person who did something sort of impulsively without thinking about the scale of the repercussions she would be facing. 02:08:50.789 --> 02:08:58.470 I do not think that Reality Winner is another Edward Snowden at all after hearing the story. 02:08:58.470 --> 02:09:08.149 I have met women like Reality Winner who do Crossfit and volunteer and love animals and are genuinely just good people. 02:09:08.149 --> 02:09:15.989 It seems like reality did something

without considering at all how serious that action would be taken. 02:09:16.309 --> 02:09:22.630 And it's really interesting because unlike Edward Snowden, she has straight up said, yes, I regret doing this. 02:09:22.630 --> 02:09:23.989 It ruined my life. 02:09:23.989 --> 02:09:28.309 It really seems that the government wanted to make an example out of her. 02:09:28.309 --> 02:09:31.590 People had been disclosing documents left and right. 02:09:31.590 --> 02:09:37.510 People way far higher up the totem pole had gotten caught for mishandling documents. 02:09:37.510 --> 02:09:45.189 Biden, Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump were all found to be in possession of classified documents in their home. 02:09:45.189 --> 02:09:48.789 All of these people get a slap on the wrist, if anything. 02:09:48.789 --> 02:09:57.269 But because she's just an ordinary person, she gets five years in prison for five pages of paper. 02:09:57.269 --> 02:09:58.470 That's wild. 02:09:58.470 --> 02:10:05.590 Five pages of paper that didn't include anything that would pose a security risk to the United States. 02:10:05.590 --> 02:10:11.590 If anything, it's good that this document was released because don't click phishing links. 02:10:11.909 --> 02:10:26.710 I don't know if she said this in any of her real life interviews, but at least in the film, she mentioned that part of why she regretted releasing it was the fact that the information she released didn't really prove anything. 02:10:26.710 --> 02:10:32.630 It proved that Russia had made attempts, but it didn't prove that they had succeeded in anything. 02:10:32.630 --> 02:10:40.949 And in the grand scheme of things, her life was destroyed for this not groundbreaking leak. 02:10:41.510 --> 02:10:47.670 Her life was destroyed for leaking five pages of what the country already knew. 02:10:47.670 --> 02:10:52.149 They already knew Russia had attempted to interfere, they just didn't know how. 02:10:52.149 --> 02:10:57.909 And all this document showed was that they sent dumb phishing emails that at least one person fell for. 02:10:58.229 --> 02:11:08.550 I almost find it weird to compare her to Edward Snowden because they are not on the same level in what they were trying to do or any of it. 02:11:08.949 --> 02:11:13.510 No, he planned the leak of who knows how many documents. 02:11:13.510 --> 02:11:23.350 It ranged from what 50k to 2 million pages of documents that, as we discussed in our last episode, did have global ramifications. 02:11:23.350 --> 02:11:24.390 This didn't. 02:11:24.710 --> 02:11:32.229 Personally speaking, I can relate a lot more to reality winner than I can to Edward Snowden. 02:11:32.229 --> 02:11:37.029 Reality does CrossFit, reality does volunteer work, she loves animals. 02:11:37.029 --> 02:11:46.949 She seems like someone that I could have ran into during the course of my life, and Snowden was far less relatable in that aspect. 02:11:46.949 --> 02:11:59.909 I can understand how someone would be watching the

news with all of these people arguing back and forth, saying there isn't proof, there is proof, there isn't proof, there is proof, and being like, just shut up. 02:11:59.909 --> 02:12:03.430 I'm gonna send this out, and maybe that'll end this. 02:12:03.430 --> 02:12:04.550 Here's some proof. 02:12:04.550 --> 02:12:05.590 Let's move on, alright. 02:12:05.590 --> 02:12:13.750 It seems like it was almost an act of frustration rather than trying to like bring down the government or anything like that. 02:12:13.750 --> 02:12:16.710 She was just, here's the proof, stop fighting about it. 02:12:16.949 --> 02:12:18.630 I totally agree with you. 02:12:18.630 --> 02:12:21.189 She didn't hate the United States. 02:12:21.189 --> 02:12:28.309 She disagreed with a lot of the current administration's stances, which a lot of people do. 02:12:28.309 --> 02:12:34.229 She wasn't trying to bring any sort of danger or ill will to the government. 02:12:34.229 --> 02:12:38.470 She was just like, this debate is going on and on and on. 02:12:38.470 --> 02:12:48.630 Here's this document that's probably gonna be released soon anyway, because there's been more classified documents leaked in the past six months compared to the past three years. 02:12:48.630 --> 02:12:51.590 I'm impulsively printing this out and sending it out there. 02:12:51.590 --> 02:12:52.869 Stop talking about it. 02:12:52.869 --> 02:12:53.909 It happened. 02:12:54.229 --> 02:13:00.309 Well, with that, let's get into our season finale's objection of the week. 02:13:00.710 --> 02:13:03.750 Your Honor, I object! And why is that, Mr. 02:13:03.750 --> 02:13:04.309 Eed? 02:13:04.309 --> 02:13:07.109 Because it's devastating to my case! Overrule. 02:13:07.109 --> 02:13:08.229 Good call! 02:13:08.630 --> 02:13:12.949 And in case this is your first time listening in, first off, welcome. 02:13:12.949 --> 02:13:22.470 And our objection of the week is the most superfluous difference between the film version and the real story. 02:13:22.470 --> 02:13:25.029 I will kick things off this week. 02:13:25.029 --> 02:13:33.189 My objection is that in the film Winner, Reality spoke Pashtu in high school. 02:13:33.189 --> 02:13:39.350 While you had specifically mentioned that she couldn't speak Pashtu in high school. 02:13:39.350 --> 02:13:41.750 So that is my objection of the week. 02:13:41.989 --> 02:13:43.029 That's a pretty good one. 02:13:43.029 --> 02:13:49.189 She did learn languages in high school, but the Pashtu came while she was with the Air Force. 02:13:49.510 --> 02:14:00.470 And in Winter, there's an entire scene where she speaks Pashtu to the recruiter in class, and that's one of the big reasons why he wants to recruit her to begin with. 02:14:00.789 --> 02:14:03.430 It was Arabic that she was learning in high school. 02:14:03.670 --> 02:14:06.069 It is definitely Pashtu in the film Winter. 02:14:06.470 --> 02:14:07.350 That's a really good one. 02:14:07.350 --> 02:14:09.989 This is gonna be tough because mine

is also pretty good. 02:14:09.989 --> 02:14:12.869 Mine is actually from the movie Reality. 02:14:13.109 --> 02:14:17.430 I didn't have any for reality, so I'm eagerly anticipating this one. 02:14:17.670 --> 02:14:27.909 In one of the initial clips you showed of the FBI agents arriving at her home after she pulled in, the timestamp was listed as 3.30 p.m. 02:14:27.909 --> 02:14:30.710 It was actually 2.30 p.m. 02:14:30.710 --> 02:14:32.710 I don't know why that happened. 02:14:32.710 --> 02:14:34.550 I don't know if that was an oversight. 02:14:34.550 --> 02:14:35.670 Very weird. 02:14:35.670 --> 02:14:46.470 But in both of the books I read and the Wikipedia, which I know take Wikipedia with a grain of salt, but in everything that I reviewed for this case, it was 2.30 that happened. 02:14:46.470 --> 02:14:48.789 And the interrogation was three hours. 02:14:48.789 --> 02:14:54.069 It showed her in the movie being taken into custody at 4:15, 5:30. 02:14:54.069 --> 02:14:57.269 Three hours puts that time at 2.30, not 3:30. 02:14:57.510 --> 02:14:59.909 Wow, I'm gonna just give you this one. 02:14:59.909 --> 02:15:01.590 That's pretty impressive. 02:15:01.590 --> 02:15:08.390 I had one more objection, but that will be much more appropriate for our verdict. 02:15:08.710 --> 02:15:14.229 At the conclusion of each episode, our hosts will deliver a verdict based on the film's accuracy. 02:15:14.229 --> 02:15:19.430 If the film is an honest portrayal of the events, then it will earn a not guilty verdict. 02:15:19.430 --> 02:15:27.909 If the adaptation is mostly factual, but creative liberties were taken for the sake of entertainment, the film will be declared a mistrial. 02:15:27.909 --> 02:15:35.670 But if the film ultimately strays too far from the truth, then it will be condemned as guilty and sentenced to a life behind bars. 02:15:36.789 --> 02:15:38.550 I'll kick us off for this one. 02:15:38.550 --> 02:15:44.229 We're gonna be giving verdicts to each of the two movies separately because they are two separate movies. 02:15:44.229 --> 02:15:45.909 I'm gonna start with reality. 02:15:45.909 --> 02:15:48.789 Obviously, this is gonna get a not guilty verdict. 02:15:48.789 --> 02:15:52.149 It's based on the transcripts from the FBI. 02:15:52.149 --> 02:15:55.750 There's nothing to argue there of why this would not be a not guilty. 02:15:55.750 --> 02:15:57.109 Moving on to winter. 02:15:57.109 --> 02:15:58.869 This one is kind of tough. 02:15:58.869 --> 02:16:02.229 There was a lot of big changes that they made. 02:16:02.229 --> 02:16:12.069 For example, in the movie, her parents divorce when she's already in the Air Force instead of when she was six. 02:16:12.390 --> 02:16:15.989 They announced that they're getting divorced at Britney's wedding. 02:16:16.309 --> 02:16:27.750 They also framed it as her decision to apply for contract jobs with the NSA, was because she wanted to help pay for her dad's health, which is not the case at all. 02:16:27.750 --> 02:16:31.189 Her dad was already dying in hospice care at that point. 02:16:31.189 --> 02:16:38.389 She also didn't go searching for information about Russian interference, she just stumbled upon it. 02:16:38.389 --> 02:16:41.190 So this one is really tough for me. 02:16:41.190 --> 02:16:46.549 I'm still, despite those changes, wavering between not guilty and mistrial. 02:16:46.549 --> 02:16:51.750 And I don't even have my mind made up right now, but I'm going to be forced to do so. 02:16:51.750 --> 02:16:54.549 The judge is not allowing me to leave. 02:16:54.549 --> 02:16:58.709 So I am going to go with mistrial. 02:16:58.709 --> 02:17:09.110 I think, especially when you compare it to the movie reality, they just kind of made these big decisions to change things that were rather large. 02:17:09.110 --> 02:17:11.829 So I'm being forced to make a verdict. 02:17:11.829 --> 02:17:13.190 I'm gonna go with mistrial. 02:17:13.510 --> 02:17:16.069 And I agree with you 100%. 02:17:16.069 --> 02:17:23.510 The film reality is literally taken from the transcript, so it's kind of hard to argue with that. 02:17:23.510 --> 02:17:40.950 And the attention to detail and the performances and the directing of the film is all extremely grounded and makes it feel like you are a fly in the room while all of this stuff is going down, and it's done very well and extremely realistically. 02:17:40.950 --> 02:17:45.270 Winner, on the other hand, takes a few liberties. 02:17:45.270 --> 02:17:51.670 I am not a fan of framing this story as a comedy. 02:17:51.670 --> 02:17:58.309 I think that lessened a lot of the dramatic scenes that were depicted. 02:17:58.309 --> 02:18:02.149 And I don't really think that this story is a comedy. 02:18:02.149 --> 02:18:10.309 It's about a young woman who got in way over her head and didn't even realize it, in my opinion. 02:18:10.309 --> 02:18:16.950 And the film does a lot of movie things, like this happened at this time to make this be more dramatic. 02:18:16.950 --> 02:18:20.469 So let's move this here, let's move this location here. 02:18:20.469 --> 02:18:28.789 A lot of shuffling events and times and locations just for streamlining purposes or dramatic purposes. 02:18:28.789 --> 02:18:31.510 And that's just not how it really was. 02:18:31.510 --> 02:18:34.870 So I give winner a mistrial as well. 02:18:34.870 --> 02:18:39.829 So not guilty for reality, but mistrial for winner. 02:18:40.069 --> 02:18:49.350 And with that, we are going to be closing our courthouse doors for a little bit to help us prepare for season six. 02:18:49.350 --> 02:18:51.829 Season six! That's nuts. 02:18:52.069 --> 02:18:54.870 Yeah, I can't believe we've made it this far. 02:18:54.870 --> 02:19:00.469 Six seasons already, in the words of the show community, six seasons in a movie. 02:19:00.469 --> 02:19:03.909 So I guess we're gonna make a feature film for season seven. 02:19:03.909 --> 02:19:06.309 But we will be back after a few weeks. 02:19:06.309 --> 02:19:25.510 Like I mentioned earlier, we are planning a wedding, so that is a little time consuming, but we are still going to come back with another season that will have more cases, more films, and will be even more interesting and entertaining than anything you've heard before. 02:19:25.750 --> 02:19:29.750 And don't worry, we will be dropping a little trailer about a week before. 02:19:29.750 --> 02:19:37.030 Listen to that because it'll give you a nice little overview of some of the movies and stories we will be covering. 02:19:37.270 --> 02:19:39.030 So mark it on your calendars. 02:19:39.030 --> 02:19:44.709 April 20th is the date that season six will be premiering. 02:19:44.709 --> 02:19:48.950 And until then, court is adjourned.