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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody, Welcome to conversations. I'm so delighted we actually we've actually found our next guests. We've caught up with him. We've tried a couple of times, but he's been a little bit elusive. I don't know whether he's media shy. I'm not sure about that, but he is one of the great Australian it's one of our great Australian athletes. Rob Deeka Stella at one stage, your world champion marathon runner, so he joins us today. Rob, thank you so much. How are you good?
00:00:24
Speaker 2: Thanks Cornsey? Yeah, great to finally hook up.
00:00:27
Speaker 3: We've had a couple of false starts and in the marathon that's not a good thing to have a false start.
00:00:35
Speaker 2: We finally got across the line, so let's give it a crap.
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Speaker 1: You are the director of the Indigenous Marathon Project, and that's what you were in Adelaide for a few weeks ago, and then we came back for the Adelaide Marathon too. I'm intrigued with this, the Indigenous Marathon Project. What is it and how did you get involved with it?
00:00:54
Speaker 3: Well, I know we've got a little bit of time, so I'll try not to drag it out too long. Basically, the Indigenous Marathon projects started back in twenty ten, two thousand and nine, twenty ten, when this valure in Sydney, Matt Long approached me and he had this idea of wanting to do a documentary to see whether we could identify a couple of Aboriginal vlos from Central Australia and train them for you know, sort of six to nine months and then take them to the New York City Marathon and see whether they could run like the Africans. And you know, the concept being that you know, for generations and generations, Aboriginal and Ti Strait Islanders have traveled across the continent similar to the Africans and you know, as great hunters and gatherers, and whether they had that same long distance running ability that great Kenyans and Ethiopians and Kanzaminians and others have.
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Speaker 2: So it was a.
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Speaker 3: Really interesting question because you know, sort of distance running and marathon running is an interesting talent area of talent identification because it doesn't matter how much natural running endurance running ability you have, if you don't do the training, then you're never going to know, you know, I mean, you know, there's all sorts of potential Olympic distance raining champions out there who just haven't had the opportunity or haven't done the training, and.
00:02:38
Speaker 2: It takes you know, sort.
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Speaker 3: Of three to four years of good, hard, solid training to see whether you've got what it takes. So you know, sort of obviously there's huge success in a lot of the other sports, you know, sort of in sprinting with people like Kathy Freeman and Packrick Johnson, Harvandkype. In all of the footy codes, especially the AFL where where it's a running running game and you know you can have midfielders that are running twenty k in a game.
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Speaker 2: You know, so.
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Speaker 3: That ability to run long distance has been sort of maybe that question is out there. And then you know, obviously in other sports in a basketball and others that are more power and explosive. But we've never had an endurance athlete from Aboriginal Triustralia Island, Australia. So this project started as almost a talent, I do think, to get a couple of Aboriginal fellows. And this fella said, look, you know he just run the city the surf in Sydney. His brother had just run a marathon, but he didn't obviously know about high performance training, so he got in contact with me. Eventually we identified four Aboriginal fellows, two from Alice Springs who have just come back from and one from up in arnhem Land, up a little community called man and Greta, and another feller from the Kimberleys in kannan Aah just over the n t w A border. And those four fellows sort of put their hand up to do something that no Aboriginal or ty strata had ever done before, partly because they didn't know what a marathon was, no idea, They've never heard of a marathon. They were all footy players, basketballers, but they're pretty cool. To get a free trip to New York that's hounded pretty pretty attractive. So so Matt and I and his production team we you know, sort of work with those fellows for about six or nine months, you know, all sorts of challenges. And for me as a as a you know, a white fellow who grew up in Melbourne and had a wonderful family and education and then went on to race around the world, I spent more time with Africans and training my African training partners overseas, living and training overseas with them than I had with our own First Nations people, So, you know, sort of, it was an eye opening experience and very confronting to actually see firsthand a lot of the statistics that we all know about, you know, sort of the gap in life expectancy and all those things. But the thing that concerned or the thing that disturbed me the most was that what I saw was like a lack of a lack of confidence, a lack of self worth, a lack of personal significance. And I think that that is a really horrible and insidious position and situation to be in, when you feel as though you aren't entitle to have dreams, when you know you're not entitled to believe that you can achieve things, and you know, sort of, and when they all eventually, despite a whole range of different situations, when they all eventually got to New York, and when they all eventually ran across the finish line in Central Park pair when they crossed the finish line, they'd run only one of the fell at. One of the four had run thirty k in his training, and the other three had struggled to get through fifteen k twenty k training runs, and when they all bounded and jumped across that finish line and pumped the air and put their fists up, and you know, sort of what I saw was this incredible sense of achievement. And with achievement comes pride and self
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worth and self belief. And with self belief, pride comes courage, and courage means that you then are prepared to take on things in your life, take on challenges, and then you know, sort of, so that's how it started back in twenty ten with four aboriginal men, you know, Charlie Ma. Charlie has now fifteen years on. He's run all six world major marathons, so he's run New York, Boston, Chicago, Tokyo, Berlin.
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Speaker 1: What sort of times is he running.
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Speaker 3: He's running you know, sort of round about a bit under three hours, you know, sort of two fifty three hours. So it's so that as the program right in that very first year changed from being a talent identification to looking at how.
00:07:55
Speaker 2: Running you know, we all know running is good for your health.
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Speaker 3: You know, running in terms of physical activity addresses every single chronic deserves.
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Speaker 1: It hasn't helped my knees.
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Speaker 2: No, well, you're probably not doing enough.
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Speaker 3: Corn Well, I feel your pain getting a bit sore as well, but I know that when I.
00:08:16
Speaker 2: Run a little bit, my legs are stronger, and you know it's.
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Speaker 1: The you know you always had, you did have strongly, except you were renowned for that A big leads.
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Speaker 2: Yeah well yeah yeah.
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Speaker 3: So anyway, the IMP now has grown into the IMF, the Indigenous Marathon Foundation, so where a health promotion, not for profit charity. We still take a group of average on entire straight Islanders twelve six men and six women age between eighteen and thirty.
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Speaker 2: We're taken to New York each year.
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Speaker 3: And we've just come back from Alice Springs where the twenty twenty four squad on Saturday ran their selection run.
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Speaker 2: They had to run thirty kilometers.
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Speaker 3: On the outskirts of Alice Springs to demonstrate that they were ready and they all got through that. So you know, in a little over a month they'll be heading off to New York and be lining up and they'll be joining. You know, we've got one hundred and forty two graduates all who've come through and run major international marathons in the last fifteen years. And as I said, you know, Charlie's gone on and run all six majors. We've got two other women that have done all six majors and running.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: Is now becoming a normal.
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Speaker 3: And just another thing that you do within First Nations Australia.
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Speaker 2: And that's what I wanted to do.
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Speaker 3: I wanted to normalize running for average or entire Straight Islanders. I wanted to create leaders and inspiring role models.
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Speaker 2: And all of our guys.
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Speaker 3: Come through the program and graduate with coaching qualifications, so there's a compulsory education element, so they all have to come out with a Certificate in Leadership and Health Promotion Level one, Recreational Run Coaching with Athletics Australia and Aboriginal and Tyres Straight Island Mental Health, First Aid and CPR Sports CPR and First Aid certificate.
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Speaker 2: So the running side of it is obviously really important.
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Speaker 3: If you're going to run a marathon, then you've got to do the training, but also the education and media training and interviewing and a whole host of other things so that they can then step up into those positions where they can have a positive impact.
00:10:37
Speaker 1: Rob Decas tell as my guest, folks, is the found of the Indigenous Marathon Foundation. There's so much to talk about with him, we will run out of time back shortly. My guest on conversation today is Rob Decastella, one of our great Australians, one of our great Australian athletes. He is the founder of the Indigenous Marathon Foundation, which does great work in communities, first nations, people giving them self worth and goals and ambitions, and centered around running and running marathons. But I touched on something when we were chatting in the first break Rob, I've often thought, you know, with these people out there, indigenous people in whatever communities, there must be someone out there who can naturally run, who has got the genetics to run as fast as Usain Bolt Or used to read about the Zulu warriors, who would you know, run thirty k's and then fight a battle anfidipities who ran the first marathon. Well he hadn't done any training. What's been your experience? Is there this natural talent out there that could just put on a hair of spikes or running their bare feet and beat Usain Bolts?
00:11:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, there's it's been a fascinating journey for me. You know, like the last fifteen years has been incredibly inspiring and disturbing and formative. I've learned a lot about Aboriginal entire Straight Island culture and people, and there's a beauty and a richness out there, which you know, one of my goals through the foundation is, you know, how do we become a platform or a voice to share more about the strength and the beauty and the resilience of our First Nations people and cultures because you know, of the country are non Indigenous and a lot of them, a lot of us haven't had the opportunity to see and be exposed to the good stories. You know, we get bombarded by all the negative things, you know, sort of if something happens in the community or closing the gap statistics are out there, but we don't hear the good stories. You know that It's something the media is not really good at, is it, you know, sort of showcasing and telling the positive, inspiring and uplifting stories.
00:13:01
Speaker 2: And we need to do that more.
00:13:03
Speaker 3: And that's why, you know, sort of the concept of getting a group of eighteen to thirty year olds who have never run before and in six months take them from no running to running the biggest marathon in the world in the biggest city
in the world is an amazing demonstration of their ability, their running ability, but it's also a demonstration of their commitment and their drive and their determination and their purpose. And you know these days, you know, we had over one hundred and eighty applicants this year for the twelve positions that we select so across across First Nations, Australia the IMP program because of all of the graduates that have gone before, you know, we talk about the ripples going out in the pond, and all of our graduates have inspired other family and community and friends to think about being part of it. And it's not you know, the trip to New York. In the early days, it was all, you know, sort of a free trip to New York and Times Square and Empire State Building and all that stuff. Even during COVID when there was no international travel and there was no New York City Marathon. We said to our guys, said, look, you know we can't get you to New York. You know that you're not going to get to run that marathon. Do you still want to be part of the program. And every single one of them said absolutely. They said, it's not just about going to New York.
00:14:29
Speaker 2: It's about being a.
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Speaker 3: Role model and having a difference and having an impact on our families and our communities, and they wanted to challenge themselves. So you know, sort of it is having a huge impact. And like I said, we've moved very much away from looking at running talent. You know, it's not a talent ID program. And even though you know marathon is in the name Indigenous Marathon Foundation or the Marathon Project, it's not really about just running the marathon. The marathon is a metaphor for struggle and achievement and commitment and hard work, and that's you know, and that's the big picture of what a marathon is now, you know, sort of the word marathon is synonymous with all of those those challenges and achievements. And we are you know, we are now because you know, all of our graduates come out with coaching qualifications. They go back to their communities after they've done done the marathon, they go back as IMP graduates one hundred and forty two in the last fourteen years, and they start their own little running programs and running.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: And walking groups in community.
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Speaker 3: So we've got nearly fifty running and walking groups that we call imf RAW Raw Running and Walking and they organize training sessions and they organize events and they you know, they provide that leadership in their communities. And to answer your question, we are seeing some of the young, the young kids, the twelve, thirteen, fourteen year olds who are showing ability to run distance. We've got a young fellow up in Brisbane who's now represented Queensland at the national Championships and he's come through our imf RAW program and he's only just turned eighteen and he's just absolutely in love and passionate about distance running. So you know, I'm sure down the track we will identify really that superstar who can go all the way to representing Australia on the world stage and hopefully like Kathy Freeman.
00:16:45
Speaker 2: Does, and did you know.
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Speaker 3: They also will inspire more average on entire strata Islanders to engage and get involved in running. But also, you know, we're really much more focused on healthy lifestyle addressing, you know, the building up mental health, resilience and developing that sense of increasing the fabric within within community and being those positive role models so they can support and change the futures for their children, their nephews, their nieces and their friends.
00:17:25
Speaker 1: I've heard you use the word disturbing a couple of times, and I read you've talked about how the conditions of some indigenous communities is a national disgrace and the complication of little things like trying to get a passport because there's no birth certificates. So when you venture into these communities, what are your first impressions?
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Speaker 3: Well, it's a first of all, I think what i've I mean, I still have a lot to learn.
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Speaker 2: You know. The first thing I'll say is that.
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Speaker 3: The more the more I learn, the more I realize I still need to need to learn a lot. So by no means you know, sort of qualified or an expert to come in a lot of these things.
00:18:08
Speaker 2: But what I what I.
00:18:10
Speaker 3: Do see is a completely different set of priorities and values across a lot of a lot of average and entire straight islanders. The commitment and obligation of and to family is enormous. The love and the and the caring and the connection to country is a strong spiritual connection. The roles and the obligations of the old people and the importance of the young people listening and connecting to the old people is a beautiful and wonderful thing, and some of these things are starting.
00:18:51
Speaker 2: To fragment and pray a little bit around the edges.
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Speaker 3: And it's important to you know, sort of differentiate the remote communities because we cover a small, little tiny remote communities up in the apy Lands or up in the Torres Strait or up in arnham Land. We also cover the regional towns, you know, the country towns and the regional areas, and we also cover the cities. And there's a lot of a tore Straight Island as obviously that live in the cities, you know. So it's a it's a very comprehensive and diverse group of Australians. But the connection and the bond that they have and the pride that they have in identifying as mob is a beautiful and powerful thing.
00:19:45
Speaker 2: And you know, it's been a.
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Speaker 3: Privilege for me as an old, an old marathon runner we saw these like U Cornsey to identify some of these amazing, amazing Australians.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: How well are you accepted?
00:20:04
Speaker 3: Look, I think I'm pretty well accepted in most places.
You know, a lot of a lot of grandparents remember me of their parents and grandparents, and you know, it's it is incredible.
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Speaker 2: Especially that Conwealth Games back in nineteen eighty two.
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Speaker 3: Let everyone remembers that though yeah, yeah, well it was a bloody long time ago, you know, sort of over forty years ago now, But but you know, sort of, I don't know, maybe there's just something about running or the simplicity but also the challenge of it.
00:20:46
Speaker 2: It just you know, connects people and you know, it's you don't.
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Speaker 3: Have to there's no rules, there's there's you know, there's no offside, there's no.
00:20:55
Speaker 2: You just get out there and run.
00:20:57
Speaker 3: And and for me to be able to share the global running family and running community with average AUTRII straight Islanders, so that now they stand on the starting line of any of the big events, proud as as Australians and proud as average on a tariro straight Islanders to be there and and you know, to to know that they're welcomed and we're still you know, you know, I was just up in Sydney for the Sydney Marathon a couple of weeks ago, and you know, the Sydney Marathon is striving and very close to being recognized as the seventh World Major, along along with the you know the other huge international marathons and and the organizers up there, you know, Wayne Laden and his PONT three group and Athletics Australia. The event owners are committed to showcasing Average on Tariro Straight Island culture as part of the identity of the marathon. And there are us, you know, to be able to see that Average on Tyros Straight Island culture is a national treasure. You know, we are so privileged in this country to have such a strong and vibrant and rich Average or Tyro Straight Island culture. The history has been challenging, but it is it is strong, and it is thriving today and it is a beautiful and rich and important part of Australia's identity and we need to embrace. And that's why we need to showcase a lot more positive stories because you know, that's you're never going to embrace something if all you hear is the negative. So we need to tell the positive and we need to change the narrative, flipping it away from the deficit to the to the achievement.
00:22:50
Speaker 1: Rob Deeka still as my guest, folks. He's the founder of the Indigenous Marathon Foundation or Indigenous Marathon Project and all the aspects that that entails, trying to get him to talk about himself when we come back after the break. I know he doesn't like doing that, but we might be able to get some stuff out of him back shortly, folks, welcome back to conversations. If you've just tuned in, we're speaking to Rob Deeca Stella, a great marathon runner who has got a brand new project he's had in recent years as the founder of the Indigenous Marathon Foundation, and the project which schools and educates young Indigenous Australians and prepares them
for running a marathon basically, but also for life and tries to improve the conditions and the circumstances in which they live and play. I was intrigued Rob to see the kids and the schools who compete for that national championship and they're covered in dust and they're covered in their colors, and that must be an absolute delight to see those.
00:23:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've just come back from a big event up in Finn North Queensland, up in outside of Weeper, little community called Mapmnhum and an Assex the shoe company who have been an incredible partner and supporter of the foundation since we started have just donated four hundred pairs of shoes and socks to the community.
00:24:16
Speaker 3: They covered all of the expenses to send five of their staff up there, and there was a big Aboriginal cultural festival up there. And in conjunction with the cultural festival, week or two before we arrived there, we've been doing promotional activities in the school and also in the health clinics and getting getting people to come in and do health checks, and rewarding the kids for performance and attendance at schools with little wristbands. And on the day of the fun run, the ACIS guys set up this little you know, sort of pop up assex shoe store in the middle of the red dirt up there, and the kids and the and the parents and adults come along and redeem their wristband for a new pair of shoes that the guys fit. And then and then we hold this beautiful color run, which you know, it just makes running fun.
00:25:13
Speaker 2: You know.
00:25:14
Speaker 3: Sort of a lot of people, you know, especially footy players and others, you know, sort of have this negative association with running. You know, it's what you have to do when you turn up late to training, you know, go run a couple of laps or whatever. So sort of a punishment that we've got to change, change the way the way people see running, to see it as a beautiful, rich and and something that you can do. You know, you don't have to hurt yourself when you run. If you're hurting yourself, then you're running too fast. You need to slow down a little bit and just you know, sort of enjoy the wind and the sound and the sun and the country where you are.
00:25:54
Speaker 1: I always heard, regardless of how far rob Let's talk about you, the Wikipedia, that great source tells me that you are of French and French Swiss nobility. Now that itself is intriguing. Now, what do you know about this, this noble family from which you emerged.
00:26:17
Speaker 2: Dick Castella of the Castle. So yeah, my.
00:26:21
Speaker 3: Great grandfather came out from Switzerland with his brother and settled down in Victoria in the Yarra Valley, and it was some of the first Vinta culturalists.
00:26:32
Speaker 2: So grew grew grapes.
00:26:33
Speaker 3: And produced wine and had a huge, huge vineyard down there in the Yarra Valley, which you know, sort of an evolution is still going. So Saint Hubert's was was my great
grandfather's vineyard Yeering Station or Yeringburg back then was his brother's vineyard. And yeah, so that was in a sort of the ancestor three to our family. And you know, I've always been brought up with a sense of responsibility and a sense of significance within a strong family structure and very proud. So you know, I'm the eldest son of the oldest son of the eldest son, going back quite quite a few generations.
00:27:20
Speaker 1: So I'm told you're one of seven kids, is that right.
00:27:23
Speaker 2: Eldest of seven?
00:27:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and your dad, I read your dad also back in the fifties was running marathons. Now there would have been an unusual thing to do.
00:27:34
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, my dad back back in the in the in the sixties and seventies got into running from a health perspective. So his mum passed away from a heart attack in the forties, so you know, we were gifted with.
00:27:54
Speaker 2: A high risk heart disease problem.
00:27:56
Speaker 3: And my dad had his first heart attack when he was forty nine. So he was young, yes, and got into to running, changed his diet, you know, sort of got into a little bit of meditation and back back then, which was pretty crazy but the running was a big part of it, and he went on to run you know, I think thirty marathons had a time of around a time of two fifty eight when he was I think in his late fifties, and you know, sort of ended up passing away when he was seventy three, halfway through a thirty kilometer training run and was just running with his dog and had a heart episode and collapsed and passed away on a footpath and the dog just sat there next to him, and then someone came along and called an ambulance, but it had already passed away. But he passed away doing something that he loved doing. And considering you know, sort of back then, to have a heart attack in your late forties but then to continue to thry to do amazing things into your seventies was a demonstration of his commitment to changing his lifestyle. And he had a huge impact on me obviously, and a lot of other people in the community as well, because he became a real advocate for you know, sort of healthy eating and making exercise a part of your life, and and also you know, just you know, having having a bit of a laugh and a joke every day as well, you know, not taking things too seriously.
00:29:31
Speaker 1: I did read a line a quote of your was out of one of the one of the pieces that you not you didn't write, but you were interviewed, and the line was, we were made we were made to feel special as kids. Was the family gift of your parents that we were made to feel special? And I wondered, how did they make you feel special?
00:29:50
Speaker 2: Well, I think, yeah, that's right.
00:29:52
Speaker 3: I think I think that's one of the greatest gifts that my parents gave me, was that not only was I made to feel special, was made to feel as though I was destined to achieve, so achievement sat comfortably on my shoulders. You know, I wasn't really uncomfortable with being successful, but hopefully I wasn't overly arrogant full of myself either.
00:30:20
Speaker 1: Difference It does sound a touch arrogant.
00:30:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah it does, but there is a subtle difference between just you know, sort of being comfortable because you know, one of one of the big challenges that a lot of people who.
00:30:33
Speaker 2: Have success is that you you have a lot of pressure put on you.
00:30:39
Speaker 3: You know, once you're successful, once then there's an expectation if you're going to be successful again and again and again, and and the danger is that unless you're comfortable with that, you can start to look for excuses or you start to make excuses. And there's a you know, sort of in psychology, there's this self sabotage behavior that people talk about. So you've got to be you've got to be okay to be you know, number one, to be successful, But that doesn't mean that you're any better than anyone else. So my parents, you know, I guess, you know, by talking and sharing our family history and our heritage and the significance of our family made me feel special, but also made me feel as though it was almost an expectation that I was going to go on and do some some special things.
00:31:37
Speaker 2: So yeah, so you know, I was.
00:31:38
Speaker 3: I was really blessed and fortunate to have both my mum and dad to really help to instill that that belief.
00:31:48
Speaker 1: Some kids will tell the pressure of that expectation. Why why did you not?
00:31:54
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:31:54
Speaker 3: I mean, I started, I started winning races when I was pretty young, you know, So round about fifteen or sixteen, I was winning all of the school and state cross country and a lot of the track racers, setting national track records.
00:32:10
Speaker 2: By the time I.
00:32:11
Speaker 3: Was seventeen, I had an incredible coach, Pat Clohesi, and Pat also just instilled in me a foundation, you know, like just a solid, solid foundation of good values.
00:32:27
Speaker 2: Had a great training group. You know.
00:32:29
Speaker 3: I went to school at Ava College down in Melbourne and we had just a good bunch of guys who supported each other and got together and got up a.
00:32:40
Speaker 2: Little bit of mischief but not too much.
00:32:43
Speaker 3: And you know, sort of my running just progressed, and then I went from winning state championships to winning national championships and then you know, sort of opportunity to represent Australia. I think my first team was back in nine and seventy seven at the World Cross Country in Germany, and do soled off as a as a twenty year old running in the senior race, and then you know, sort of started to connect with a lot of our senior athletes, a senior distant runners and training up with those guys that also took me under their wing as a young fellaw and made sure I didn't get.
00:33:22
Speaker 2: Too full of myself.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: But also you know, instilled in me that sense of consistency and perseverance and you know, to be an endurance runner, you have to endure and that means that you have to you have to train consistently and persevere through the good times and the bad times, and the cold, wet winters in Melbourne and the hot summers.
00:33:50
Speaker 2: You just get out there and just keep on shipping away.
00:33:52
Speaker 3: And if you know, if you've got that genetic ability to continue to improve that I was fortunate to have, then you go on and do some pretty amazing things.
00:34:04
Speaker 1: Rob de Castello is my guest. Folks. We started out talking about the Indigenous Marathon Foundation and gave us a great insight to that. We haven't talked much about his actual running career other than the start of it. We might do that when we come back back shortly. Rob de Castella is my guest. We're doing it by a zoom link. Where are you based, Rob, where he's speaking to you from?
00:34:27
Speaker 2: Still here in Canberra? Yeah.
00:34:29
Speaker 3: Moved up to Canberra when the Institute of Sport opened the AIS back in eighty one and have been here pretty much ever since, other than a stint where I lived in Colorado in the US when I was training.
00:34:42
Speaker 2: At altitude over there, but pretty entrenched to you now.
00:34:48
Speaker 1: You represented Australia in your first Olympic Games in nineteen eighty in Moscow. No, that was controversial. Tell us about the lead up to that and that became tenth And I mean was that a six says for you coming to Oh?
00:35:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was huge.
00:35:02
Speaker 3: I mean it was you know, I was, I was young, I was idealistic, I was you know, sort of on the rise, passionate.
00:35:12
Speaker 2: Uh. And then you know, sort of all of the.
00:35:16
Speaker 3: Russian invasion into Afghanistan and the way that the Olympics and sport just became this this political tool.
00:35:26
Speaker 2: And I was.
00:35:28
Speaker 3: Fortunate to have some senior athletes, you know, around me, people like you know, Chris Wardlow and others that were so a little.
00:35:38
Speaker 2: Bit more mature and more worldly than what I was. And uh.
00:35:43
Speaker 3: And we had all sorts of battles in the public and the media about whether we as Australia should be sending a team, and you know a couple of high profile sports journalists who really.
00:35:55
Speaker 2: Got stuck into us.
00:35:56
Speaker 3: But eventually, you know, sort of we we went over there and it was an amazing in experience for me to see see the people, the people of Russia, not the politics of Russia, and to see the pride.
00:36:10
Speaker 2: You know, we remember the pride.
00:36:12
Speaker 3: That were in Australia had when we hosted the two thousand Olympics in Sydney, and it was exactly the same over there. The pride that the Moscovites had and the Russians had to bring and host the world in their in their country was a beautiful thing to see and and you know, for me it was it was just a wonderful stepping stone I think into my international running.
00:36:43
Speaker 2: You know, politics.
00:36:45
Speaker 3: Whilst you know, you have apartheid and you have other things going on around the world where where sport has has been affected and at the moment, you know, even the last Olympics with no no Russian team in Paris, you know there is there is maybe you know, some justification for.
00:37:06
Speaker 2: Politics coming in.
00:37:07
Speaker 3: But but back then, you know, Australia was still still trading with Russia. You know, there there was no there was no problems in taking there and selling our grain and everything else to Russia. But was the athletes going over there that they were the ones that were being used. So you know, you can't you can't have it both ways. So yeah, so Moscow was a great event and as you said, I finished tenth. That was incredibly proud of and had had a great a great exposure to the world.
00:37:39
Speaker 1: But that then then preempted an incredible run between eighty one and eighty three. You wonder what marathon in world record time? And then back in eighty three he won the World Championship in hell Sinki. Did you feel invincible?
00:37:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much? Yeah, yeah, look, you know, fukuok eighty one was was incredible.
00:38:01
Speaker 3: Then backed it up with the Conwealth Games in eighty two, and then off the back of that eighty three World Championships in Helsinki, went to Los Angeles as as favorite and made a couple of silly mistakes in my preparation and ended up fifth there.
00:38:21
Speaker 1: But then what mistakes did you make?
00:38:25
Speaker 3: I just overtrained, you know, I, you know, I've been training really well in the years leading up to it, but I thought, you know, this is the Olympics, I need to do more, and and just you know, overtrained and over raced and traveled, you know, sort of from Australia to the Northern Hemisphere a couple of times and just got worn out. You know, athletes, it's a fine line that you you know, we used to say, it's like like you're I've never served, but it's what I imagine. It's like trying to ride a wave on a surfboard. You know, if you if you go too far forward, you fall off. If you go too far back, you fall off. And you've just got to try to find that, you know, sort of that steady point where you're pushing but you're still absorbing all your training. And unfortunately, I just, you know, sort of overtrained the right reasons I overtrained.
00:39:18
Speaker 1: I read where you were running two hundred and twenty k's a week, was that right?
00:39:24
Speaker 2: And twenty would be my normal week?
00:39:25
Speaker 3: So and before Los Angeles I was bumping it up close to forty and you know, that's training twice seven days a week and doing you know, like four or five probably only had two recovery days Mondays and Fridays
with my recovery days, and every other day was a hard either you know.
00:39:44
Speaker 2: Thirty k or thirty five k long run or hard hell sessions and track sessions. So it is easy.
00:39:53
Speaker 3: And also, you know, I sort of had a pretty high profile back then, so I was doing a fair bit of sponsorship and and media and other things.
00:40:01
Speaker 2: And all of that just wears you down.
00:40:04
Speaker 3: And then off the back of Los Angeles, I relocated to Colorado. I realized that I needed to have a bit of a break from.
00:40:13
Speaker 2: The from the spotlight and the you know, sort of.
00:40:17
Speaker 3: The furnace of Australia, and based myself over there for the Northern Hemisphere summers, our winters, and then you know, came back after eighty four and had my best run ever, which was the Boston Mara Front in eighty six where I smashed the course record and ran my fastest.
00:40:39
Speaker 1: Time two hours, seven minutes and fifty one seconds.
00:40:43
Speaker 2: Two seven fifty one Yeah, amazing. Yeah.
00:40:46
Speaker 3: So and you know, and then off the back of that had the Coma of Games edin Burghs backed up my COMWAF Games gold medal over there, and yeah.
00:40:57
Speaker 2: And then you know sort of went on to My body was starting to get.
00:41:01
Speaker 3: A little bit, a little bit injured and a little bit tired by that stage, and.
00:41:04
Speaker 1: I wonder why that is.
00:41:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably didn't didn't really look after myself as much as I should have, but I mean, yeah, it's it's very hard when you when you're exhausted, then you're tired, and you every every single day you're training hard, you're always tired, and then to you know, sort of have to put time into you know, doing recovery is a hard thing to do, so I probably needed to look after myself a little bit more. Luckily, my physique is and certainly back then was very robust and strong, and I was able to handle the trauma. Training is a balance between you know, sort of tearing tearing your body down and allowing it to recover and build up.
00:41:56
Speaker 1: How is it now? How's your body now?
00:41:59
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:41:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's I mean, my knees and hips get a little bit sore.
00:42:03
Speaker 1: But are you sixty seven these days?
00:42:06
Speaker 2: Sixty seven? Yeah?
00:42:08
Speaker 3: And I do a lot of martial arts now, so I've been down.
00:42:12
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about that. Is a Japanese an unusual martial art that I hadn't heard of before. Yeah, it's quickly about that.
00:42:18
Speaker 2: Well, it's a.
00:42:20
Speaker 3: Style of karate called okinaw and go juru and karate started in Okinawa, which is a little island between China and Japan. So so our style goes back to one of the founders of of karate in Okinawa, Nahate, So it's sort of the lineages of the karate kid you know, Agi sense is sort of based on the founder of our style, Churge in the argue.
00:42:52
Speaker 2: So I've been doing that now for over twenty five.
00:42:54
Speaker 3: Years and I have reached a fifth dan black belt god and my wife also is at the same she's Goadne as well.
00:43:05
Speaker 2: So we have a little a.
00:43:06
Speaker 3: Little club training. We've got a little dojo in the bottom of the house here and we have a dozen or so students that we that we train and still travel back up to Okinawa every year every.
00:43:20
Speaker 2: Two years and train up there.
00:43:22
Speaker 3: So it's and that's stretching and the full body functional movement has been a good thing I think for my body post post marathons.
00:43:32
Speaker 1: Do you kids run.
00:43:34
Speaker 3: I've got four kids eldest. Eldest now is in her early forties. She doesn't run, but she also does karate. She's a son dan't or third Dan, and my then two boys. My eldest son he runs recreationally just for for his health and well being. My second son ran the Melbourne Marathon a couple of years ago, but it wasn't I think it's hard. I think it's hard for my kids, you know, sort of following in my footsteps. So he actually ran the marathon with a weight belt, weight vest, just you know, because the marathon wasn't hard enough, so he thought he'll run with ten or fifteen kilos of waite strapped around his chest.
00:44:24
Speaker 1: And what time? What time did he do?
00:44:27
Speaker 2: I can't remember.
00:44:28
Speaker 3: What wasn't anything special, but he's They're all wonderful, beautiful people. And then my youngest youngest daughter, she plays a FL so she's been in the Giants Academy program up here in Canberra and she's a pretty pretty solid AFL player.
00:44:49
Speaker 1: Do you have a footy team like an AFL an AFL team?
00:44:52
Speaker 3: Well, I used to follow Hawthorne when I was down in Melbourne, grew up in Q and used to be a junior member when they played the Glenferrie All and back in the Peter Hudson and.
00:45:04
Speaker 2: Peter Crimmins.
00:45:05
Speaker 1: Peter Crimmins, Yeah, Peter Crimins, Peter Peter Knights.
00:45:09
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
00:45:11
Speaker 3: So I still I still follow Hawthorne when I when I can, but I'm certainly not a not a member or of any of the clubs, but enjoy watching most of the games.
00:45:23
Speaker 1: Been great speaking Rob, I really admired you from AFAR obviously, as all Australians have, your work with the Indigenous Marathon Foundation is amazing if you've given us a great insight to that, and I encourage people to look at the website. It's quite comprehensive. It gives you an idea of the four different programs that you have and some of the work that you're doing. So been great chatting, Thank you so much.
00:45:44
Speaker 2: Thank you Quanti. Great sharing a few stories and a couple of laughs with you.
00:45:48
Speaker 1: Good Rob Deeca Teller was my guest. Folks, thank you for joining us.