Young Törless (1966) dir. Volker Schlöndorff의 전체 녹취록

young filmmakers, directors, and producers have, in recent years, received a large number of prizes at international festivals and gained the recognition of international critics. These works and their successes show that the future of German film lies with those who have proven that they speak a new film language. In Germany, just as in other countries, short film has become a school and place of experiment for feature film. We declare our right to create the new German feature film. This new film needs new freedoms. Freedoms from the conventions of the established industry, freedom from the outside influence of commercial partners, freedom from control by special interest groups. We have concrete intellectual, formal, and economic ideas regarding the production of the new German film. Together we are prepared to take economic risks. The old film is dead. We believe in the new one. And that last bit there sort of becomes the rallying cry of the old film in the dead, Papa's cinema is dead, is sort of the rallying cry of. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: Oberhausen and that group of short film directors who want to make their own sort of stuff. I think especially what sticks out to me in regards to what I know about New German cinema from the Oberhausen Manifesto is their the language about commercial film and like we've we've shown that you know they're basically saying that this previous generation of filmmakers who are trying to make work that is commercially viable does not is not you know it's not making money and nobody's happy artistically and so we want to make films that are not influenced by commercial viability that represent, you know, the future of German film, this new film language that has more artistic merit than perhaps commercial merit. At least at first, they say they're prepared to take economic risks, but they're definitely setting themselves up for this should be funded by outside sources because it might not They're they're already setting themselves up for we want to work outside this sort of capitalist system of you get funding from outside investors and they exert a lot of influence on a film to make sure that it makes money on the back end. So that's what sticks out to me. Anything stick out to you, Felicia, about this? Felicia Maroni: Yeah. I think what sticks out to me especially is and it's not directly written in this, but is for sure and this'll come up throughout the series with specific directors, not all of them, but the influence of them being inspired by definitely the French New Wave and their way of creating films. But also what sticks out to me is kind of where it ended after this and the fact that As someone who went to film school, we weren't really taught about New German cinema and, you know, every time I read this manifesto, I feel personally inspired to make I was like, Maybe I should make my own film even though it's not film has always been in my interest but more of the history side. But I feel like, you know what, let's go out and just do something and I really wish that more young filmmakers would read this manifesto and take inspiration 'cause I think it's very inspirational to be like, There should be funding for arts. Just point blank. And you should be able to fund people who want to create innovative stories as opposed to copying what other countries and cultures are doing because it doesn't translate necessarily as well if you go from like America to Germany. Only someone like a fast brinder was able to do it, but even how he did it was very different than how someone was doing it in the States. So I think it's a very inspirational manifesto and I think more people should be writing their own man manifestos and taking things into their own hands. It's it's a scary time for filmmaking and art right now and it feels like people are starting to get complacent and I hope that this is not the case and there's a bit of a revolution and just taking things into their own hands. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. I've also, you know, going through all of this research on New German cinema, thinking about film movements over time, that to some extent, film movements are named as film movements after the fact. And so we sort of reconstruct based on what's happened. But if I had to think today about like, are there any film movements that are Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: active and thriving. Like it's really dicey. You know, maybe you'd say South Korea has a pretty good film movement ongoing, but that's you know been going on for 20 years. So is there Felicia Maroni: I know. Mm. Bryan Loomis: Is there a new thing that's launched that's going to turn into a film movement that has its own identity? And I don't know, and you don't necessarily need that to have good films, but I look at what's coming out in the festivals and such, and it seems very I mean, it's arthouse stuff. Some of it is quite good, but I don't know that it's Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: innovative in the same way as a lot of this stuff was. So we do need voices like this who are saying we want to give a new kind of film the chance to come to life for film to survive long term. Like there needs to be innovation, new things happening. We can't just repeat what has been done in the past. So there I mean there are different types of stories being told today that are very exciting. And so I think that's where, you know, you've got new queer cinema starting in like the nineties or so, but you know, trans directors getting the chance to make films. Like that has not happened until, you know, the past 10, 15 years, perhaps, that I'm I'm super aware of at least. I mean, you've got the Wachowskis, Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Mm-hmm. No. Yes. Bryan Loomis: But they're established before they come out as trans. So a little bit different there. So I think those sorts of things are very exciting. And like that to me feels like the future of film and where the the new film movements are

going to be. so that that's the most exciting to me. So on a more optimistic note and film movements are dead, there's no innovation, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: Yes. Exactly. There you go. I I really hope, that they follow in the footsteps and I I think there there definitely is hope. It's I don't think it's hopeless at all. And I think that it's oddly enough. I do wanna just say that Kluge was actually a a lawyer before he became a filmmaker. And I think, you know, his knowledge of being able to engage with other human beings is how Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: he's not the only person who wrote this manifesto but he definitely had a a heavy hand in this and I think that's why it's so it's so gripping and it was able to achieve what they were able to achieve from this. So you can do anything. You can be anything and then you can make a film. Bryan Loomis: Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. He he was a lawyer. He's also a writer. He writes extensively about film, social criticism. He is really insightful in the way he writes. I find, and we'll get into this with the film itself as well, but I find that he is more. Felicia Maroni: Uh-huh. Bryan Loomis: Of a theorist and has really compelling and neat ideas about film. And I don't always feel that he's able to capture the ineffable and artistic in his films. It seems very derived from his way of thinking and logical in a way that like when I read what he writes. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: It's like, wow, this guy has great ideas about what films can be. And you can see how it led to the films that he created. But there is something about great filmmaking that can't be captured simply with words. And, you know, we try, we write film criticism, we talk about films, but they're that Felicia Maroni: Mm. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: Ineffable quality beyond just what can be said about a film is very important to the quality of of that film. And I feel like sometimes that's a little missing in Kluga's work, but wondering how you feel about him as a director overall. Felicia Maroni: Yeah, I agree. I think I like the idea of him more than necessarily his work and I do it's interesting because I did enjoy this film, but I think what I enjoyed even more was the research on the film. more so than the film itself, because the film and again, we'll get into this for sure, but the film demands a lot of its audience, because of the way it's cut, because of the way it's structured. And if you're only watching this for the Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: once you're probably gonna feel a little bit confused, like why did he make these choices and what really happened in this film, but I think it requires definitely more than one watch and I think again, I can understand where he's coming from, where he has these great big ideas and he wants to transport them to film in an interesting way. It's just a little bit more difficult to digest, especially on a first watch, more so than maybe a lot of

the other films we're gonna cover in this series, I think. I think it's probably the most, you know, you know, cut up versus the other ones that are more linear. So Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Yeah. At first I thought and I think I even read somewhere that it is sort of told out of order. Watching it again and giving it a more careful watch, I wasn't quite sure on that. It does seem to be told in a linear fashion, though some things sort of recur in interesting ways of like the past repeating itself. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Bryan Loomis: So there's some aspects of that, but it does feel as you're watching it a little bit choppy. And I think that's intentional. you had some interest an interesting quote here on Kluga's theory of montage. Would you like to share that? I think it leads right into what we're talking about, right? Felicia Maroni: Yes. Yeah. So there's a great article on Senses of Cinema which will be linked for sure in the show notes and highly recommend for anyone who's interested to to read it. 'Cause they have a lot of information on in that article about his career and not necessarily just about this film, but what he was interested in, how his style of film making came about. But They talk about his theory of montage and they say Kluge has sought out to theorize and put into practice a new conception of montage distinct from both invisible editing strategies of Hollywood and commercial film practice, and dialectical montage as theorized and practiced by Sergei Eisenstein and the Soviet school of filmmakers. So if you're familiar at all with Eisenstein and how he did montage. You can see that for sure that he was influenced by his work. and I've read some other interviews with him because Klugid passed away this year. Is it this year or yeah, this year. So and he was actively still talking to a lot of publications who were anyone who was interested in talking about his work or German cinema or cinema in general. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. This year. Yep. Felicia Maroni: And he says that he was definitely inspired by Eisenstein, but he was even more inspired by Goddard and his style of editing, which I think if you're familiar with a specific era of Godard and how he would like to like his stories are linear but kind of like what you were saying, sometimes things are intercut where it makes you feel like it's not linear. But what Kluga was saying was that I the way I create a montage or editing style is that I want to have the audience be a active participant. So they need to think about and they need to fill in blanks. And sometimes you see a scene and you see another scene and you're like, What do they have to do with one another? Because then it cuts back to another scene. and you're left to just think about what they had to do with one another and it's all relevant and it all makes sense but it definitely d requires you to be actively watching the film. This is not a film that you can just have on in the background and be doing something else at the same time because you will miss a lot. And it's a short film. It's a shorter film. So I think you can definitely give it all the attention it requires and it deserves because I think it's a very interesting film. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. The influence of French New Wave on Kluga in general and this film especially is so striking. If this film was, you know, set in France and dealing with French economic conditions, you would not blink an eye watching this as a part of the Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: French New Wave and particularly that influence of Godard is so striking on what what Kluga's trying to do. And so I think, you know, thinking about Kluga as just a theorist, like there are things he's doing stylistically here that are non-didactic. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: And that's an issue that I have with the film is that it's trying too hard to make its point in some ways. But I there there is Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: real artistry beyond just that that you can see in that that's very inspired by Goodard and French New Wave filmmaking. Vivre-Savie is a very similar film to this. So thinking about like the episodic nature of that, looking at the way women are treated Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: it it's just so so similar in what he's trying to do. So yeah, there's definitely that direct inspiration. But also he's inspired by a lot of the people that the French New Wave were inspired by. and even worked with Fritz Lange for a short period. I didn't know before doing the research that Lange actually went back to Germany to make a film. but yeah, you wanna talk about the this yeah. This film that he made? Yeah. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yep. Very brief. Very briefly he did and this is part of like two films that he did that were both set it he went back to Germany, but both these films are set in India. So because as one does. and you know, at that point in Fritz Lang's career he'd been working since, you know, the silent era, had his stint in America where really he made him na his name for himself like worldwide. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Felicia Maroni: And then towards the end of his career he goes back to Germany and he does a couple of these films, but the one that Kluga worked for him as an assistant was on the Tiger of Eschpinar Eshpiner. I this is one that I it's one of the last ones I still haven't seen of his and it's just been sitting there for me to watch and anyone I've talked to is like, watch it if you're a lying completist but don't expect anything that's not gonna be slightly problematic. so I I will eventually watch it, but I think for at least Kluga, who we both know is a huge film nerd, I think being able to work with Fritz Lang, in any capacity, even if he wasn't doing technical work, he was his I think definitely meant the world to him and probably learn so much from just watching him direct and I think that's why you can see he's a very capable

director with this film, even if the style is like so opposite to anything that Fritz Lang would ever do. Fritz Lang would never make something like this. I don't think his mind works that way, but I'm sure being able to watch s like a master work especially even later in their career because at at this rate Fritz Lang has like maybe one or two other ones. He goes back to America to finish off his career. But I think that that was probably fantastic. I mean I would have been like this is the best day, best, you know, few months of my life. Bryan Loomis: Yeah, just being able to work with him. And then Lang also shows up yeah to bring it back to Godard, he shows up in contempt too as himself. So yeah, he's definitely inspirational to the French New Wave. And if I was trying to launch a Felicia Maroni: There you go. Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: new kind of film in Germany, I would certainly look back to that sort of Germanist expressionist and those era of filmmakers of there was great a great film being made in Germany in the twenties. And so being able to work with Fritz Lang is just sort of a dream opportunity for somebody who's trying to restore the country to cinematic excellence in some ways. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: So it's really neat that that happened. Yeah, and like you said, like the st stylistically very different, but just being able to see a master at work, I'm sure had an inf influence. Felicia Maroni: There you go. for sure. For sure. I will say the last thing on the the French New Wave I mean not the last thing 'cause I'm sure it'll come up, but even the way he styles his sister in this film is very Anna Karina. They have the same hair, same look. To the point where I actually when I first saw the just the images from it, I thought maybe it could be her, so a lot of Godard influence, for sure. Bryan Loomis: Cool. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. D I will say one key difference is that it's his sister. And I think the casting of his sister is so influ is so interesting. And so Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: You know, Alexandra does not come off as I mean, there are sex scenes here. she is naked in in the bath for a bit. The camera almost feels afraid of her when she's naked in the back. So you can feel the influence of like, This is my sister, you know. no so there's but there's I think it brings a really interesting and unique dynamic to this film versus those good artists. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: films Where she is not sexualized at all, but there's this sort of fraternal empathy in the way she is filmed and portrayed here that I think is really interesting and unique. so so I enjoy that. Though, yeah, I will say it it is very influenced by those Goddard films, clearly, but not quite as sexualized, maybe as Goddard. Felicia Maroni: Mm. Yes. Yeah, I think I think whatever else will p probably come up in the as we talk about the film itself and the style a little bit more. No. I mean,

thankfully, 'cause that would be a little bit odd. Bryan Loomis: makes Karina. Yeah. It would be, yeah. So we're grateful for that. We're grateful. the let's see, anything else about Kluga before we move on? We've jumped around a bit here, but Yeah. Cool. Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: So how would you say this film is important to the new German cinema movement and genre? Like when this film is released, what does it do for launching this movement? Felicia Maroni: Well, as we mentioned, it i it was the very first to get the funding, post the Oberhausen manifesto, so that's important in of itself, being the jumping start point from it. And because of the way he created this film, it does start off a new way of creating visuals and style for film that just wasn't seen in Germany. especially not since as we mentioned, like the twenties where they were doing something very new and specific. Germany was in a point where they were just trying to make the most inoffensive and like easy watching style of films. And here he does create a new cinematic language. Yes, it's inspired by a lot of other people, but he does it in his own way. It won the Silver Lion at Venice, which is a huge award, and it it really just brings a lot of validation to the movement. not that they were looking for awards or money, as you mentioned, but getting a award is always a good thing. You know, it it's gets more people to acknowledge the film outside of the festival and outside of the country and it's not a film that's widely st Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: spoken about today but I still see even in the research I saw a lot of arthouse theaters and cinemas around North America and Europe who were actively still showing this film and stating it as being like, you know, an incredibly important film to jumpstart the movement. So I I think as much as it's him and this film are not as much spoken about, but people who are into the movement can recognize its importance for sure. Bryan Loomis: Yeah, absolutely. The winning an award, I mean If you are going to say my film is going to have artistic merit over economic merit, you know, the external indicator of artistic merit really has to be, you know, an award. It could, you know, the director can say, I made a great film all day long. You can point to maybe critical, contemporaneous critical response as well. But winning an award is such a prominent recognition of artistic merit that for It really serves as an early validation for this movement and the artistry of this group of short film directors who's now seeking to make feature films. That this project is working. The very first film wins a prominent award at one of the biggest film festivals around. And it's an award for the direction of the film. So it's saying this director did did a great job. And then he actually wins. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: The Golden Lion, the biggest prize at Venice the following year for artists under the big top Perplexed.

So he gets that early recognition for the movement and becomes a prominent voice that allows this funding to continue to be a thing because it's the very first wave of funding here and it's early validation to the ones providing the funding that there is something artistically compelling happening here that's being recognized. Felicia Maroni: Yeah. I think you know, any country Trying something new and getting recognition like that is important and it's again why a movement that people still talk about. And I can't think of any more recent I'm very bad at keeping up with Venice in the past winters 'cause I think did Venice just happen? Bryan Loomis: Mm. No, it's happening in a couple of months. Can just happened. And Venice, you know, Pedro Modovar, obviously a great director, but he won for the room next door a couple of years ago, which is a terrible film. So of course, you know, these awards do not always go to the best film. Felicia Maroni: okay. yes, okay. 'Cause I like, I don't know who won. Mm-hmm. Mm. Tell me about it. I know. We see that a tiff here a lot. A lot. Bryan Loomis: Yes. Yes. So yeah, the audience award and such goes to more of like a a crowd just the crowd pleaser, the thing that makes people feel good. I mean all all award shows I think have that problem to some extent, but I think it can be a historical indicator of something that's happening. yeah, certainly. Felicia Maroni: Gosh. Mm-hmm. Yes. Bryan Loomis: So what about like the hallmarks of this film or its style are influential? So we've got this montage style that's not quite Hollywood, that's not quite Eisenstein. Do you see a lot of influence from this film on the future directors in New German cinema? Felicia Maroni: It's odd because I don't see a ton, as at least of the ones that we're covering, and I see that he kind of continues to do that. but even like the other film of his that I watched, Big Mess, is not as it's not stylistically similar like this one. So it's interesting that people weren't more inspired by it. I think they were more inspired by the themes. Bryan Loomis: Me neither. Yeah, but Felicia Maroni: as opposed to the style because I think the way he tackles, you know, the East and West Germany and coming together and but that's essentially what the film is about, about a woman who's from East Germany coming to West Germany and the difficulties that she faces and I think the themes of him putting that out there and out in the open when a lot of films from Germany were just not even acknowledging this past at all. And it's interesting because she also doesn't really want to talk about the past. and and you get why, 'cause she's just like, I want to move on, I want to create a new life for myself, a new persona, basically. And it's I think it it it it follows a lot of what the the manifesto was talking about, of like we need to acknowledge what happened and how we're moving on, as opposed to just pretending to move on and not acknowledging it. And some

films are more overt than others, that we'll cover for sure. But I think this one is an interesting way how he's tackling it because he's not getting into the depths of, you know, what happened. But it's there. It's there within the how the people interact with one another and it's there in their mindset and you can feel it. Even with the the choppiness of how the story is told. You can feel that it's just there lingering. Which is I think something that a l inspired a lot of other directors. It's like the lingering of the evils of the past and how the new generation who wasn't necessarily there for it can reckon with that and create their own work and move on from that. So I think that's to me at least, is what inspired other filmmakers from the movement, but I wonder how you feel about it. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I don't see a whole lot of influence on the other New German cinema directors. I think they mostly take their inspiration from other sources. Maybe you could say there's a little bit of influence on vendors. He seems the most similar stylistically in what he is trying to do, but not so much the Felicia Maroni: Mm. Bryan Loomis: Like you said, like other directors follow the content. He maybe would be the closest stylistically, but not so much on on the content side of things to what's happening here. But yeah, the the economic miracle is ongoing in Germany at this time. So even though Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: The film industry in Germany is not doing particularly well. Other industries really are manufacturing, automotive manufacturing, in particular, German cars are huge at this time. The Volkswagen Beetle is sort of this iconic image of German industry and commercialism. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: The economy is really thriving, inflation is low, people are getting employed, and this film is a little bit of a counterpoint to that: of saying this thriving of industry is working for some people, but not all people. And showing how people can get left behind, even when all of the economic indicators of okay, what is our unemployment rate and how is inflation and all of this stuff looks good, but there are still people who are being left behind and not everything can be reduced to a statistic. There are actual people whose stories need to be told to understand. What is happening here? So I find that really compelling of an idea. And this is there are other films that cover the East Germany, West Germany, divide. There are other films that Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Very different very different ways of storytelling, even, overall. So to be make a great mix for the series. Bryan Loomis: Talk about the economic miracle to some extent. I feel like it's not quite as well covered in New German cinema as maybe some other topics. So I like that this one is trying to tackle that and and look at that from sort of a critical lens. But they they are themes that will recur in the future, certainly. Yeah, a lot of variety within the industry of the way things are are within the movement of the way that things are portrayed, even if it's the same sort of subject matter matter. So it's always interesting. All right, let's get into the film itself. I think that the first thing that Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. definitely not at a shortage of that. But it's always interesting, I think, especially as we've kind of crafted this series, to see how different directors tackle similar themes and what was more important to them and and why. So it'll be interesting to see as we progress throughout 'cause just looking at what we have on the docket, I'm like Bryan Loomis: I wanted to talk about was Alexandra Kluga's performance it is so prominent in this movie where you're watching her and and the way that she is performing. What did you think of this performance? Felicia Maroni: I really liked her in this I mean, this is the first time I'm ever seeing her in anything and I think what she does with the role is very interesting because She kind of comes across as a bit meek and shy and an introvert, but there's a bubbling rage within her because she keeps getting thrown around from person to person and she's just not able to succeed in any sort of way. And as you're watching her, because at least to me I I really gravitated towards her and I liked her and I was rooting for her, I'm thinking about why are these people being so mean to her. There's no real reason other than that's just how society was and that's sometimes people get the short end of the stick and I think she portrays it really well and I wonder how it was like for her to work with her brother and I think because they're siblings and they're obviously they must be close if they you know, he cast his sister, there's that trust that you can feel with him being able to, you know, allow her to explore her feelings in specific ways that I think the film in someone else's hands would have been sometimes someone a director might have been harsher towards her character. and I think there's a softness that I can feel from his side that he lends to her. And then it radiates through her performance. I think she's very good. And I'd like to watch more of her work. I know she didn't do a a a ton, but Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: I I think she does a great job. What did you think? Bryan Loomis: Yeah, I think she is wonderful. You'd certainly characterize her as a non professional actor. She worked with really exclusively her brother on films. She was a doctor for her primary career. But she did recur and so seems like whenever he wanted her to show up in a film, she'd go along and give a performance. But very naturalistic style. I think her personality Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: jumps off the page, but being being a a doctor herself, she is putting herself in the shoes of someone who's maybe more, you know, lower class, coming from East Germany and really struggling, where from what I can see, she was

probably not struggling in the same way in terms of her career or such. But she I think is is fantastic. She has these little like micro expressions on her face at times that are just like, wow, you can like really see the personality. And I think that's where the non-professional actors can really shine, and just like showing their personality where there's not a lot of artifice there, and you can just see like this is the way that a person. Felicia Maroni: Mm. Yes. Bryan Loomis: Would act. I actually watched a film recently from other New German cinema directors, sort of being being shown. So the film is called Where Does Your Hidden Smile Lie? It's a documentary about Jean-Marie Straub and Danielle Huilet as they are editing the film Cecilia. Felicia Maroni: No. Bryan Loomis: Which they made in the late nineties, early two thousands. So they this is far after the movement, but they maintained the same style from the time that they were working in New German cinema to afterwards. They also very much prefer non-professional actors. And there's you're watching them as they're editing the film, which is such a fascinating time because they're arguing over like what frame do we start on? Do we start five frames later? And they care so much about all of these details that you would never think of. Felicia Maroni: Mm. Bryan Loomis: One of the things they say about non-professional actors, they've got a young actor who's the lead in the film, and they're commenting about how he takes a sip of water as if he is sleepwalking, and that's exactly what they want. You know, they're they're looking for the way he would take a sip of water. Felicia Maroni: Ha ha ha. wow. Bryan Loomis: a as if nobody was watching. And it is really hard with professional actors to capture that from their perspective at least, the being able to do unconscious movements as if nobody is watching. And I think that that reminded me of of this film and some of the ways that Alexandra Kluga moves, makes expressions, you know, just inhabits this this person is very Felicia Maroni: Yes. Bryan Loomis: Very naturalistic and just as if she's walking around. And so for a non-professional, I think, you know, obviously for a professional who's been trained to perform in a certain way, that would be hard to capture. I think it'd also be hard for a non-professional, though, as well, to because you're conscious of being filmed, and that by nature of the camera being on you, changes things. It changes how you act and behave. And so being Being able to get into that space where you're just being entirely naturalistic as if you are not being watched, I think can be hard. And I think she does a great job of it in this film. Felicia Maroni: Yeah, I agree. And it's interesting because I think the way with the s late sixties and seventies in cinema around the world, we see it even in American film and you know, the new American film that we get, and the use of the more often use of non actors. It's like what you said, I think there's there's both sides of it. Like a professional actor is gonna be a little bit more controlled and they it thought deeply about every move that their actor or that that they're gonna make for their character. And a non professional, if you pick someone up off the street to be in your movie, they're gonna be like, Well there's a camera I'm a little bit more self conscious. So you need there's like a mix and you even see it in like De Sika when he used a lot of non actors and his work and a lot of kids and somet it just I think it also comes down to the director and how they're able to make someone comfortable because someone like Kluga obviously was very good at directing actors and someone like De Sika who's picking well I I was gonna say he's picking kids off the street. That's actually sounds really bad. But he's choosing children that he's meeting to be in his films and they They give you some of cinema's greatest performances and they've never been in a film before that and some of them were never in a film after that. so I think them being siblings, the two Klugas, Alexander and Alexandra, which is also very interesting, w what their parents thinking. They're like, Listen, we've got one name and we're doing this. there's obviously a bond. Bryan Loomis: Yeah, what were their parents thinking, you know? We're running it back. Same name but female. Felicia Maroni: I feel like it was like they thought they were having maybe a girl at first and they were like, Well, they were attached to this name, so they gave Alexander and they're like, Well, now we get to use Alexandra I I don't know if that's that's what they thought. But you can definitely feel the the the bond between them and i if you ever read any interviews with him and him talking about his sister, he he's definitely he he admires her a lot. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Could be. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: And also their parents have two kids who were one was a lawyer and one's a doctor. I think that's what that's especially I'm sure at that time was everyone's dream. One goes on to create films and a and whatnot, but he's still successful in his own right. But yeah, there's definitely a bond. Bryan Loomis: Absolutely, yeah, and that sibling dynamic to making the film I think is is just pretty unique and they're collaborating in a unique way that I think works to the film's benefit. And so that is an aspect of this film that I find really notable and i it's worth watching just for that to see how would Felicia Maroni: Mm. Bryan Loomis: somebody direct their sibling and portray it it brings such an interesting tension to this story that really is focused on generating empathy and sympathy for this character. the use of a sibling from the filmmaker's point of view brings an intro. There are lots of films that are trying to generate empathy and sympathy for their main character, but the sibling dynamic entering into that br makes it so unique in a way that I I really

respond to. Felicia Maroni: Yes. I agree. I also will say not to harp on it, but I think obviously it's great that they had a great pref relationship prior to this 'cause other siblings directing one another w sometimes. I think about if I had to direct my sister or my siblings, we'd be fighting. Who's to say there wasn't fights, but yeah. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? Sometimes that doesn't work. Yeah. I I acted in a lot of home movies growing up that my brother sort of took on the director and editor role for our little home movies that we would make, and me and some friends were the actors in these films. And so I'm very Felicia Maroni: Nice. Nice. Bryan Loomis: familiar with that sibling dynamic and how it can go well and in some cases not go well of there's definitely footage of him just getting really frustrated with me trying to do something a certain way or like cracking up laughing at a scene that's supposed to be serious or whatever it is. So Yeah, it it can bring an interesting dynamic to a film set though. that can't say that my experience making home movies as like a middle schooler and high schooler is indicative of what this would be like in a more professional setting with funding and such, but definitely familiar with that dynamic to some degree. Felicia Maroni: There you go. Bryan Loomis: So how do you think the film navigates these different systems in Germany at the time of the economic miracle? Felicia Maroni: It's interesting because we well, we haven't fully mentioned yet that Anita G is a Jewish woman living originally on the east side of Germany. She's coming over to the west, as we mentioned. For and what's in her mind is a better life, especially economically. And she keeps getting into trouble. with because at some point if you you know, you need money, you need sources to eat, you might be pushed to a point where you commit a crime. Even if it's a petty crime like stealing food from someplace. But every person in power that she comes across, because we see her interact with like landlords in terms of like paying rent and renting a place, bosses where she's working and losing her jobs, even professors where she's at and judges. She's interacting with a lot of people in power who should be there, I think in her mind are able to help her. But there there's like a ruthlessness to how she's being treated by all these people who are just kind of pushing her around and see her kind of as a a problem and a nuisance. I don't know how you feel about how these people are treating her. Bryan Loomis: Yeah, I I get the sense of their being very patronizing. I think in some ways she in order to survive in a system that she doesn't fully understand, she's just sort of nodding along and they just sort of go with that. I think particularly that scene with the Professor, where he's talking about what she's going to study, and he's just sort of doing all of the okay, you're gonna study this particular thing, and have you read this person and this person? No. Okay, well, we'll get you to read that. And it's very patronizing, and she clearly has no idea what he's talking about, but he doesn't There's no empathy there. It's just, okay, this person is not on my intellectual level, so I just wanna, you know, get them out of here, basically. the early scene with the judge where he is very cle many times he's like, you're just lying about that, or that's not there's no factual basis for that. Felicia Maroni: No. Bryan Loomis: is very unempathetic and rigid. And so there's a lot of I I think the the systematic nature of going through all of these different systems and showing the various ways in which they would fail someone like this is compelling, at least as an idea. And then in in in practice, I don't know that it works quite as well because of that didacticism of there it it's really trying to hammer its message across and I wish it would just like chill a little bit and be a movie. But yeah. Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Yes. No, I agree. It it does feel for sure heavy handed and I get it, like I I try I'm trying to give him a bit more grace because it's his first film and I think I would probably do the same if I if for some reason I was inspired by a message where it's like you've been thinking about this for years and you pour it all out into one film as opposed to like, hey, let's take Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: pieces of this and then we can explore it through multiple films. He threw it he he essentially trauma dumped into the whole movie. and it it sometimes it works, sometimes it feels like it's a bit much. And there are times where it feels like a bit much when you're watching these people just kind of pontificate on her and just as she's sitting there just taking it in and it it feels like Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Felicia Maroni: what did she really do at all to deserve any of this? And the answer is that she did nothing to deserve any of it. And I'm sure obviously this was, you know, something that the real Anita G went through. He does say that it's not, you know, a direct retelling of her story. He definitely had his own you know, stylistic flourishes to it, but he took the essence of her character and put her into a story that y he wanted to tell. I don't really know that much about her as a person, but I know that he did say that this is me creating my own story and using her as inspiration for what I wanted to tell. And you can tell he he definitely had something to say. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: Even if sometimes it's a bit much. Which I feel like Godard is also exactly the same way. Where you're like, Okay, let's relax a little bit. Yes. Depends. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Times. Yeah. The difference with Godard is the volume of films he's making. So even if like three out of four of them are like, I get what you were going for, but this didn't really work for me. Because he's making so many, he does sometimes stumble into because of how

brilliant he was, like a masterpiece. So yeah, when you're making like three films a year, you can you can have a lot a lot of duds, but Felicia Maroni: Yes. I know. Yep. Bryan Loomis: The I think it does I I'm not all that down on this film because I do think that the message is a strong one, and so I'm willing to meet it a little bit more halfway because I do think he has a point with some of this. And so I'm more willing to engage with a film that feels like Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: written, you know, a written persuasive essay if the written persuasive essay is strong. And so I think it it does work to some extent, even though I feel like it's it's going a little too hard on its points and not enough on Felicia Maroni: It's interesting because I think I I went into this one fairly blind and having a bit more reference of other ones 'cause it's probably one of the later ones I watched as we were doing prep for this. So I'd watched many others, so when I got to this one, I was actually shocked to see how we how we went about this because I just wasn't expecting that from this movement. And I think it's interesting the way he closes up on certain things or but Bryan Loomis: It's artistry, though it does have times where it is removing itself from telling the story and just doing these stylistic flourishes. So maybe we go there next of the the style of the films, there are these interludes, a lot of close-ups of people and faces. How do you think the style contributes to the film? Felicia Maroni: For me what was most interesting was like kind of inter interjecting imagery that felt like it was kind of out of nowhere and le allowing you to piece together why that was put there and the use of sometimes you see the characters speaking but we're not hearing their dialogue, we're hearing a narration. So it's like okay, once I settled into it, I was able to understand a little bit better what he was going for. But it's it's a bit of sometimes of a sensory overload. where you're like, okay, there's a lot of images happening that are not corresponding to the audio and then now there's audio not corresponding to the images and they're being interjected. but I think it's to me, kind of just hammers in the idea of creating a new language. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Felicia Maroni: in film. And as we mentioned, kind of closer up to the top, it is interesting that no one really took this and ran with it. They kind of just left it as its own artifact. And I dunno, that kind of feels a little bit special on its own right, but it's I think I think you can see the influence that he ha that he it was on him but I wonder if there's other directors post the German New Wave who was who were inspired by this that we just are maybe not as aware of because I can't imagine this film just being in a vacuum. But maybe it was. Maybe it's just like its own thing and no everyone was like, he did it, I don't even wanna attempt what he did. I don't know. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. I think the there probably have been films that were inspired by this, but they probably would be considered more, you know, to a film critic watching them, they would say, that's inspired by French New Wave filmmaking, because it is pretty similar stylistically and the French New Wave is just more prominent and popular than than this was. So I think you'd you'd say Felicia Maroni: Yes. Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: To me, the stylistic elements that work are mostly lifted from the French New Wave style. But there there are some unique things in here and I think he does some things that are at least intellectually interesting to me of that's an interesting choice, even if I don't necessarily feel them in my gut as wow, this is really effective. So I think there are some Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: Interesting stylistic elements. I think he probably gets better in his next film in terms of style and what he's doing, but that one is a little less seen than this. so we wanted to do this one as sort of the launch of the the new German cinema as well. So yeah, I think it's it's got some some interesting stylistic elements. I think the Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: Perspective, I think, can be really compelling, but I guess a recurring theme is like there's no one way to do film style that works. There can be many different styles that work for the nature of the film. And this to me, like being able to just capture her and her actions, being able to see her up close really helps you identify with her in a way. For a movie that is so focused on empathy, those close-ups, the way he really focuses in on mostly her face, but also, you know, her hands at times or different actions being taken. think that that works pretty well. I am partial to like the the more Japanese style of like showing things at middle distance or far distance and showing the action from that perspective. Felicia Maroni: Yes. Exactly. I think I think sometimes a close up can make you feel in the same way that a score can sometimes you're like, Okay, you're forcing me to feel a certain way But I think there is a bal a nice balance in this one where I think he's obviously hoping that you empathize with her, but I don't think he's forcing you to. I think it's in the performance, it's in the story and it's in the fact that you're watching a woman who's just kind of being beaten down by the system and I think it's something that a lot of us especially watching it in that in this day and age in twenty twenty six a lot of us can feel and even if it might not be super, super relevant to yourselves, y you're watching it on a to ba day to day basis that we can all empathize with her and what's going on. So good use of close ups I think. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Yeah, and it captures something that somebody like this might not even be fully aware that like this is just their ordinary life that they've experienced since they were born. So it feels very normalized to them. And I

think you see that in her performance where it's just like, this is just the way things are. And to us watching, it's like this should not be the way things are and the director is hammering that home. But somebody who's experiencing this in real life, I think, can just sort Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: they're just trying to get by and so it's just sort of floating from one thing to the next. At times she gets angry and yells at people and you're like, yeah, go go get it. But a lot of the time she's just like silently experiencing or suffering without even being conscious of how bad it's gotten and how things could be better, you know. Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Good. Yeah. Bryan Loomis: So yeah, that's good. well so why why don't you think Anita in the story is able to get traction when from all external indicators this is a time of economic prosperity in West Germany? Felicia Maroni: It was interesting 'cause I was thinking about it watching it and then post what the the situation was. And I don't think I could put into words myself what it was, but I read a pretty good article that I'll read a very quick quote on. And I think that to me at least, hit it right on the head for me. So this is an article on S from Swarthmore. And again, it'll be in the show notes but The writer was saying, Anita's existence reminds ordinary in quotes Germans of their guilt, so they treat her as if she were invisible, passing her on to be someone else's problem. Which I feel like f is the unwritten thing in this. Again, we mentioned she's a Jewish woman coming from the east side of Germany, coming over to the west side. And it seems to me that they see a difference right away. For us watching it, we would see zero difference. At least to me I'm like, you're all German. I don't I don't see what the difference could possibly be. But obviously for the people living there at that time, they see a divide in the same way that you would see a divide probably from like people from the East Coast to the West Coast o of our respective countries. Where you're like, we're all the same but there is certain differences. I think it's a little bit more intense in this one because you know, she is going to the West to seek a better life for herself. Or a life that she wants of her own, I think, and what she thinks is gonna be a better life, because she figures she can go there, probably do really well, get a nice apartment, get a nice job, and just live her own life outside of like living with her family, and that's just not happening for her. And there's there's no real reason It's so funny. Bryan Loomis: Trying to see if Ozzie's gonna bark. They're dogs barking outside and he hears them and has perked up. What are you thinking, Ozzie? Yeah. He likes to chill on the couch. He likes one of these days he is going to fall through this dog crate. Yeah. He likes to stand on it. Ozzie, get off of that. Get off of that. Felicia Maroni: It's so funny. I saw him chilling. I saw him chilling on the couch. I was like, my gosh. I didn't see him at first. other than the system just keeps rejecting her and they don't want her there. And I think that's for you as the viewer and myself what feels the most frustrating because they're like it's not like other films, like a more modern films where they would be like, This is a foreigner coming in who's trying to make a new life for themselves. This is someone who's also German. So you feel frustrated alongside with her of being like, This should be a walk in the park and it's Bryan Loomis: But it is not meant for a dog to be standing on top of that. so anyway. Okay. Trying to remember what I was going to say about that. yeah, I think I got it. let me do my marker thing. There we go. Felicia Maroni: No. It's really not. And you know, she ends up in a detention center at the end. and it just it feels like a wild ride for how short this movie is of all the things that she goes through that you're like, Wow, that's that's a bummer of an ending, for Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Okay, how do I wanna phrase this? I get time to think about it now. Felicia Maroni: I know. Bryan Loomis: Okay. Yeah, I think there's a discrimination, especially during the time of economic thriving for West Germany, of like they see capitalism is working for us. We are thriving, we are doing well, we're earning lots of money, and so there's this discrimination towards the the other socialist system of that's not for us. And if you come over here, you know, you're you're not one of us and you don't get to benefit from this system. So I think unconsciously that's certainly happening here. And I think Kluge certainly sees it that way because he starts with the scene with the judge saying, okay, so you came over from East Germany and what was your history? And no, I don't believe that and like all of this stuff. The the way that it's framed from that scene being the opening really gives you an indicator of what he thinks are the factors in her discrimination here. So Felicia Maroni: Yeah. No, I agree. It's hard. It's hard seeing all these people in power. And I will say, you know what, I I don't know if I even caught it myself, but I've read someone talking about that scene with the judge and the way the camera is placed and it's looking up at the judge kind of the way she would have to be looking up. And it's not like a new trick, but it is interesting and I think it's it works really well for this. I think a lot of the people in power, I think even maybe with the pre professor is framed a little bit higher and feels very overbearing as they're just kinda yelling at her. Stuff that you're just like, man, just shut up. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hold on. What where do I want to go here? Okay. so she ends up, you know, she gets evicted, she is fired from jobs, and then she ends up essentially in a detention center. How do you feel that this film ends for her? Like, is the ending strong here? Yeah. Absolutely. Felicia

Maroni: Yeah, it's it's rough to watch someone that's like to that point where you're like, you know, where do you go from there? And it's weird. I don't know if I'm read it into this weirdly, but I felt once she got into detention center, she seemed a little bit more at peace and calm. 'Cause she's like, Well, there's a roof over my head Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: I will get fed and obviously the situation is not good, but this is a bit more stable right now. And I I do hope for her that she manages to create a life for herself out of this, even if it's just going back to where her family is. But there was something in her performance that to me I read that she seemed a little less on edge than she was throughout the film. Because this is like, well, I'm here and there's nothing I can do about it right now and I'll be taken care of for however long I'm gonna be there. So as opposed to being like, when is my next meal? Where am I gonna sleep tonight? unfortunately she knows. So there's to me I read that. I don't know if you if that was just how I was reading it or if you felt that a bit on how she f was when she got there. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Yeah, there's something to a person like this who's just trying to survive, even if the situation is bad, like knowing what, you know, the the rules are and what's expected is almost even though it's a terrible situation, it's better in a way than just being adrift and not having that definition. Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: The I mean she has an affair with a government official named Pechota. That's a lot of what happens in the last half of the movie. She gets pregnant. We see her give birth at the very end of the film. He does. But there is still that divide of he's married, he's having an affair with her, it's never going to turn into something. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: thing more than what it is and then Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: He ends up essentially abandoning her and his baby at the end. So I think it's just another instance of like, yeah, we are interested in you as a romantic partner, but there's a limit there to the empathy because of the nature of the situation, and so It is an interesting ending and I think that's the way you need to end a film like this, like showing that there's no, you know, magic bullet for this person. Things are only going to get worse and ends up being more of a call to action. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Yes. I know. It's it's weird because I think a lot of the films we're covering, a lot of them probably have bummer endings. But this one I like exactly, I think it's perfectly how you said it. There is more of a call to action to be like, there's no reason that this should have even happened to her. So what are we gonna do to ensure future generations don't have to deal Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. Felicia Maroni: with these situations. So sometimes you need a downer ending to get the the message across. And I think the ending is the the whole film is strong, but I think the that last quarter of the film, if you'll if you will, is probably the strongest in wrapping up the message that he has. Bryan Loomis: Absolutely. All right. Well, Kluga made made some other films. we've seen a handful of them. So how do you think not as many as as we've seen for Herzog, of course, but how how do you feel that this film fits into his broader filmography? Are there other films that are worth watching as well? Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. No. Yeah, I mean I think that if you're getting into his work, I think you should a hundred percent start at the beginning and see that yeah, he didn't really continue on with the style, but I think it's interesting to see w what his intentions were. but he also does artists under the big top perplex, which you mentioned he's one of the directors, part of the Germany and Autumn film that includes a multitude of directors from the movement, including someone like Fastbender. and he also does The Big Mess, which I've seen, which is interesting, it's like a sci fi comedy film, which just sounds like something if from even doing research. Yeah. It didn't personally work at all for me, but I could see what he was going for. It c it actually kinda reminded me Bryan Loomis: The opposite of this. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: of Carpenter's Dark Star. But yeah, in that sense. I also Bryan Loomis: interesting. That's a movie that I love, but not one that I'd necessar I really like Darkstar. I think it's so much fun. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: I love Darkstar. People don't love it, but I love it. Darkstar's better than this one. But it's interesting. But Kluga goes on to I mean, continue making films, as we mentioned. He only passed away recently this year, but he goes on to be the founder of a television production company called Development Company for Television Program, DC T P Bryan Loomis: Yeah. All right. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: Which was known for its late night programs and often screened documentaries, a lot of them that he directed. because if hey, if you have a platform for it, why not screen your own movies? what was interesting to me was that I was reading an interview with him with Moobie and he was talking about the D C T P and he like, it's actually online now and there's live streams and they have all their magazine materials and a lot of reading stuff and you can watch some of the films that go on. So there's a website. DCTP or DCTP dot TV. It'll be in the show notes. I went on there. It was interesting. There was actually a live stream of stuff happening right at the top of the page. So that was cool to find out that it still lives. Yeah, today. Even post his him being around but also post its prime of being on television. So He was definitely one to keep up with the times. 'Cause he talks a lot about how he was interested in how the the boom of like YouTube and how people were able to create their own work and put it up on YouTube. So he was very interested in making

sure he kept up with modern styles of creating and showing films and So we have this. I highly recommend just even if you don't watch anything, just to click on it 'cause it's it's interesting. The layout of the the website is very interesting. Feels very eighties, but it's it's cool. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Maybe it hasn't been updated since the eighties, you never know. But that's amazing that you can watch their live streams and such. I'll have to check that out. Felicia Maroni: Ha ha ha. Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: we'd actually a little behind the scenes when we were thinking about films that we wanted to watch that we hadn't seen yet and trying to bookmark ones that might be interesting for the series, we had thought about Germany in Autumn because it's so many different German directors, deals with issues that are relevant to Germany at the time. And then we both watched it and were like, no, I don't think we want to do that one. So Felicia Maroni: Yes. Bryan Loomis: So it just wasn't quite as compelling as we were hoping, you know, it would be to to cover on on the series for either of us. So yeah, that one, his his segment and then everybody essentially except Fastbinder and Schlundorf I I don't don't really, you know, respond to what they were going for in a lot of ways in that film, but Felicia Maroni: Yeah. No. Bryan Loomis: Gosh, need to pause for a second to see what that was called. The is it just called German Autumn? Or what yeah, German Autumn is what I was saying. For dealing with German Autumn, which was a Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: that one is available and an interesting historical document for dealing with Felicia Maroni: yeah. Bryan Loomis: Period in nineteen seventy-seven where the Red Army faction essentially kidnapped a German industrialist and they end up killing the industrialists. Several of the RAF that's th that are in in prison, the leading members, are either commit suicide or are killed while they are in prison. A little bit unclear. But that season was a very fraught time politically for Germany. And so it it covers that and that is a very im important to the history of the German of Germany in in the seventies. So interesting to see artists capture it really just a year later. I think Kluga's best film that I've seen is his next film after Yesterday Girl, which is Artists Under the Big Top Perplexed. It's pretty similar in style to this, but it's dealing with the circus. And so the visual element of it and the things that he's trying to capture stylistically are just a lot more interesting because you've got more visual interest from watching circus performances going on. You got Felicia Maroni: Uh-huh. Bryan Loomis: elephants all over the place. Very similar in trying to make economic points about you know starting a business and how that might go wrong. And also a female lead character who is discriminated against. So capturing the same sort of thing from a slightly different angle, a little less well known than yesterday girl, but I thought it was a little bit better. so I really like that one and would recommend that. Folks check that out too. Felicia Maroni: Nice. Bryan Loomis: All right, we've got some double features prepared. We choose double features that are not from New German cinema itself. and I think we both swapped out our double feature for this week after the fact. So that's sort of funny. I I had one that was really obvious and then I chose one that was I think a little less obvious. So so that I I was it's a the original one was Wanda, which is a film I love and but is a very obvious comp for this movie in that it also as I was thinking about films that feature women and are looking at how they're treated Felicia Maroni: Yes. Yes. Bryan Loomis: By society, it's the most direct comp for what this is trying to do because the Both Anita and Wanda in some ways are very like voiceless and are not able to express exactly what they're feeling. I think Wanda is a far better film. I think it's really a masterpiece. It's it's an really incredible film. But both also open with, you know, a courtroom scene that's pretty instrumental in understanding who the character is. So there are a lot of comps there, but that felt really obvious. So that's not the double. Felicia Maroni: Uh-huh. Yes. It's funny 'cause I feel like I went the opposite where my first one was less obvious and I like, mm, I'll go for a more obvious one. So my original I'll say was my night at mods, the Romer film. And I think for me it's just visually it reminded me a lot of it. as I was watching it for some reason I was just getting my Night at Mod vibes. But then I eventually changed it, especially doing research. I was like, okay, it reminds me also of Godard Bryan Loomis: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: V Savie probably was better the choice, but I didn't think about that. I thought of La Chinoise and just the way the editing style is in that film and that that that one has a heavy handed message that they're trying to get across in this film, which I think is very reminiscent of what he's doing in this film. So I think if you want to see a direct influence on, you know, Kluga Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: y you probably should watch a Godard. and that's I don't know if I would necessarily probably even watch both of them back to back. You probably will feel exhausted after. But if you're like in like academic mode, I would recommend those two as as a double bill. Bryan Loomis: Mm. That's fair. Yeah. For me, La Chinoise is one of Godard's hits that I really like. it is it is a little bit more didactic, I guess, but I don't know, it just really works for me as well. So I think it's an excellent film and and sort of a fun pairing here. yeah, the Godard style is is very Felicia Maroni: I like it too. Bryan Loomis: very prominent of course in in Kluga. So I picked one Eventually that was more of a historical and film history comp than a stylistic comp. so I

thought of when we're talking about the Oberhausen Manifesto, the other prominent film manifesto that the only other thing that I can think of that's been called a manifesto would be the Dogma 95 manifesto from Felicia Maroni: Good. Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: The Lars von Trier, Thomas Vinterberg, and some other filmmakers who had a manifesto and a list of rules that that all films who were made in the dogma style needed to follow. So again, very, you know, they announced this thing and this vision for films. And then there were many films made in that mode by Vinterberg and Von Trier, not all of their films follow the all of those rules. In fact, Von Trier's first film after the Manifesto breaks a lot of the rules, so it's not considered a dogma film, but he does make some that do follow all of the rules. But the first dogma film is Dogma One is The Celebration, which is a Vinterberg film. very, very different film, of course, than Yesterday Girl, but in terms of being Felicia Maroni: Yeah. Bryan Loomis: A statement around what a movement is, and like this is what we are trying to do. And I really like the celebration. It is a tough movie to watch, but I think it's so good. Yeah. so I I really like that one. It's actually probably my favorite of the dogma, or I like it better than anything Von Trier's done. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: I know. Is it? that's interesting. Actually, you know what? I I think th I need just bringing up Dogma ninety five and I can't believe I didn't think about it. I think 'cause it's so important that, you know, people inspired, you know, I th I have to assume this this movement inspired them to create their own movement and seeing what they were able to do. And yes, they moved on. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Felicia Maroni: host that movement in their careers, but same with a lot of the directors did in in this movement as well, where they were doing new German cinema and then they moved past it. But I have seen Celebration this this I love Thomas Renterberg. This movie stresses me out so much. I was stressed the whole time. I was like I was on edge. I couldn't even enjoy it. I think I require a second watch 'cause I was like Bryan Loomis: It's very stressful. Felicia Maroni: It's a lot. Bryan Loomis: Usually when I feel like a movie is intentionally trying to stress me out, I sort of not having a good time with it. But for whatever reason, like this one just really that like acid tinged just. Felicia Maroni: Mm-hmm. Bryan Loomis: It it just really works for me for some reason. I can't really explain why why it works and why a lot of the other movies that are trying to do that don't work for me. But I think it's because it's a little bit more of a satirical take on it and I really respond to satire. and so that that I think element of it works really well for me. But yeah, the celebration, Thomas Vinterberg. Maybe read a little bit about it before you watch it, but Felicia Maroni: That's good. I think so. Bryan Loomis: Yeah, yeah. Worth worth knowing what you're you're putting yourself in for, but in this case. But I would say worth watching. So cool. Well that about wraps it up for this week. Felicia Maroni: Yes. Yes. No it is. Bryan Loomis: This has been Cinema Field Guide. You can find us at cinemafieldguide.com at Cinema Field Guide on many social media platforms. Where are we at, Felicia, on social media that people could check out? Felicia Maroni: We have the YouTube. So you can find us at this. You can watch us speak about the film if you or you can listen to us in the background while the video plays. we're also right now. Exactly. I hope. but obviously we're on all streaming platforms and we also have an Instagram, we have a Twitter, a K X, and we have a Blue Sky for right now. Those are the three that we have. Bryan Loomis: Mm-hmm. You may be watching us on YouTube right now. Imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. Felicia Maroni: Who knows, it might expand to further ones, but if you have any of those platforms, you can you know, follow us and keep up with what episodes are being released and what episodes are coming up on the in the series. So all of those things will be posted on on there for you to find. And you can also email us at Cinemafield Guide at gmail.com. Bryan Loomis: Yeah. Absolutely. Yep, we'll be announcing our next film for next week very shortly here. So be sure you're following along on social media for that. But yeah, this has been Cinema Field Guide and have a great week.