Contentment or Complacency? How to Tell the Difference의 전체 녹취록

it's from China, it's sketchy? what if I told you it was from France? I'm like, it's just interesting, right? we were and mom's like, Well, China's communist. And I was like, Well, what's wrong with communism? I go, I don't want to live in communism, but you how it's just like it's the propaganda of how we were raised about certain things being good or bad. And I'm like, it just kinda makes you think, mom, where are we getting this information from? And she was like, Well, I'm an American. I'm proud to be an American. And there are people who live in America and they don't want to be American. And I was like, Mom, can can you bitch about your marriage and still love your husband? And she was like, Yeah. I'm like, well, why can't you be dissatisfied with things that are happening in America but still wanna be in America? You know, and I do think we are in this polarized world where it's like one or the other, right? So it's like you can, Kelly (03:42) yeah. Jessica (03:44) right? It but it's like we're not allowed to like in the mommy world, right? In the mommy world, you can't say, my God, it's really hard being a mom. And people are like, you should be grateful. Some people wish they could have kids. It's like, no, I can be grateful. Both can be true. We can contain multitudes, right? Kelly (04:02) it's interesting they say that because that was the one thing that when I went to Barbara King Solver's like book tour event, Jessica (04:10) Yeah. Kelly (04:11) one of the key things she made was the idea of duality, that two things can be true at the same time. It was Jessica (04:15) Yeah. Kelly (04:16) a really big push for is sort of like one of her core beliefs, and that Jessica (04:21) Mm-hmm. Kelly (04:22) it is like the idea of why people love reading books. You can be a 12-year-old. Boy on an adventure and still be a mom making dinner because you're living in this immersive world, right? And Jessica (04:32) Well, like that. Yeah. Kelly (04:35) so I I think that's very true. And for some reason, there is this belief that you can't do those things at once. you can't Jessica (04:42) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (04:44) be happy and content. But I think about this too is like, again, the books we read, how many characters Jessica (04:51) Yeah. Kelly (04:52) that we all, the best-selling books, all these, different fictional novel novels where Jessica (04:57) Right. Kelly (04:58) the person who is happy and content, those are the people we like love, right? They just seem so at ease with their lives and like living in the present in that way. I don't know. Let's keep going on this though, Jess. Jessica (05:12) Well, I'm following well, I'm following all these books where they're dissatisfied or lonely and they're on journeys, right, to Kelly (05:20) Yeah. Jessica (05:21) find themselves, But and I you know and Kelly (05:23) Yeah. True. Yeah, there's that too. Jessica (05:26) and I think sometimes growth doesn't mean something's wrong, right? It means recognizing that you don't you don't need to change something, Growth actually means recognizing that you don't need to change something just because other people are changing things too, right? Kelly (05:44) Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the opposite thing, which is like when does containment be contentment become complacency? Because that is I think where I even sometimes could like assume that that mean the same thing, even though I know that they don't, you know. Jessica (06:01) Yeah, yeah. I think one clue is when we keep telling ourselves we're fine with something, but we notice that we're consistently dissatisfied or disconnected from what we say matters to us. Kelly (06:15) So when we're saying we're happy with something, but maybe we're not completely honest about that. Jessica (06:23) Yeah, and I also don't want to make this sound like everybody needs to examine every comfortable part of their life looking for a problem. Yeah, sometimes Kelly (06:31) That would be exhausting. Jessica (06:34) you really are happy and it's wonderful, but if there is an area of your life you keep thinking, I wish this was different, and you never take any steps toward changing it, that might be worth exploring. Kelly (06:46) it's interesting they say that because I think about friendships being an example, right? You have friends Jessica (06:50) Mm-hmm. Kelly (06:51) who you've known for a very long time, and you tell yourself you're content with those relationships, but maybe you leave every interaction feeling very drained. Jessica (07:02) Yeah, or maybe you've been wanting to build new friendships but it's uncomfortable to put yourself out there. Kelly (07:08) it's like you're right, because it's like sometimes it's easier easier saying, It's fine, I don't need to worry about I don't need new friends. I don't need any new friends. Jessica (07:17) Right. But what we're really meaning is I don't want to go through a the awkwardness of meeting new people. Kelly (07:25) Which is understandable in some way, but I d I think it depends on it always I guess it does take effort, right? To kind of lean into that idea. Jessica (07:35) I yeah, it's different, but it's different w from saying, I don't really want new friends versus I'm avoiding this because it's difficult, right? Kelly (07:44) Well, and thinking about complacency in that way where you're when you say everything's fine, you're just sitting. I guess I think about that with complacency, right? Is where you're just sitting in this situation and you're not doing anything to change what you're wanting. And maybe Jessica (08:02) Yeah. Kelly (08:02) that's where contentment is kind of the same but different. Because I guess I see contentment as like a mix of like, you're not exactly unhappy about it. But I guess in both complacency and contempt, you feel like there's not, is there a a forward movement? You're just sitting in this thing? I don't know. Jessica (08:18) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (08:20) Okay. So

let's keep going about this. I heard a question once that I think is really useful here to think about as we're examining our lives in that way, which is what if nothing changed in whatever area of let's say we're tink thinking about friendships, right? What if nothing changed in your friendships for the next five years. Jessica (08:41) Yeah, that's a good one. Kelly (08:45) So maybe it's something to think about that as you're determining if you're happy I sh that's the thing, is if you're content or not. Is it's like if this never changed, would that be okay for you? Would that be okay with you? Jessica (08:58) Yeah. Kelly (08:58) Five years is a long time, in my world now. Maybe when we're 95, not so much. I don't know. Feels like a Jessica (09:06) Yeah. Kelly (09:06) long time. But meaning it's also here that faster than But just thinking about if long time being like, could you handle that for five years? I don't know. Okay. So if your friendships stay the same, would you still feel happy? your career. maybe your daily routine, your relationship with your spouse, your kids, like certain things where maybe it's things aren't going the way you want them to be. Jessica (09:34) Yeah, I like that because it moves us away from what we think we're supposed to want. And what I'm thinking Kelly (09:41) Yeah. Jessica (09:41) about, and I would add something, if your answer is that you wouldn't be happy, that doesn't necessarily mean you need to make some dramatic change. Kelly (10:08) Yeah, I think that, we don't want to I can't even imagine doing that dramatic overhaul. It's like our life is full as it is. And Jessica (10:16) Yeah. Kelly (10:16) so it's not like making some major shift is needed immediately. Jessica (10:21) Yeah. It might just mean something deserves your attention. I think that is where comparison can get really tricky. Cause sometimes Kelly (10:26) I like that. Yeah. Jessica (10:29) we convince ourselves that we're complacent just because someone else is doing more. Kelly (10:34) Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a great way to think about it too. you know, it's like I'm perfectly happy in my career and what I'm doing. And then you see somebody somebody starting their own business, and then you're like, am I Jessica (10:50) Yeah. Kelly (10:51) now am I no longer ambitious? Am I like staying where I am and not moving Jessica (10:55) Yeah. Kelly (10:56) forward? Jessica (10:57) And it doesn't mean that you've lost your ambition, but maybe your priorities have changed, which we talk about a lot. And maybe you genuinely want to spend your time differently. One of the things I'm thinking about that we haven't used an example of is like our body and our looks as we're aging. Right. You know what I mean? It's like Kelly (11:14) Yeah. Jessica (11:16) It's almost like there hasn't been space. So we had the body positivity movement and then that disappeared and now skinny is back in. And I think about like you can we've talked about this a lot, but

you can love your body and work to love yourself, but also change things, right? You know what I mean? Like, Kelly (11:35) Yeah. Jessica (11:36) I think too many people right now are like either no makeup, no Botox, or plastic surgery. And it's like, why can't you? why are we giving shame? Okay, go gray, wear your hair white. But that doesn't mean that people that dye their hair don't love themselves. You know how how there I don't know if you've seen that around where they're like, Well, I we need to see wrinkles. We've earned these wrinkles. Okay, good, wear your wrinkles. But if Susie wants Botox, who cares? So I just think there's like again, like not a lot of opportunity in our culture for duality. You know what I mean? Like, like you're saying. Kelly (12:15) I think that's fair to think about in that way. And Jessica (12:18) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (12:19) for many of us, I sit can sit here and say, I agree with you. You do you, right? but at the same time, I'm always like, man, that person could use a glow up, right? So like I guess that is where you go back and forth a little bit, right? Where like I see how beautiful somebody could be if they put a little more effort in. Jessica (12:40) But it's like as long as to me, effort is the key. And I think it's like, you I think you can tell when someone feels good about themselves. Right. And I see and and so Kelly (12:51) I totally agree, Jess. Jessica (12:53) you can have no makeup on and not wear a bra and I can think that you're gorgeous. Right. And so I think it's like you're saying you can just tell, like, I I feel good with the way I'm presenting myself today. You know what I mean? Kelly (13:05) I agree. And I think that that, although we're in some ways, I think I love this because I don't this is the idea of contentment and complacency where it's like, Jessica (13:13) Mm-hmm. Kelly (13:14) if you're perfectly content and you're carrying yourself a different way and you're not like you don't have Botox and you don't have a lot of makeup on, but you're just like who you are, the Jessica (13:24) Yeah. Kelly (13:25) energy in which you exude every every single one of us has that power, right? Jessica (13:30) Yeah. Kelly (13:30) And so it the contentment versus complacency is an interesting state of mind, right? Jessica (13:34) Yeah. And I think that gets into that comparison, which we're talking about in November. And so Kelly (13:40) Yeah. Jessica (13:41) asking yourself, do I actually want something different? Or I just do I just feel like I should want something different? And that's what we want to get into more. Kelly (13:50) Yes. I think that is the best question. And, you know, we've also had, I love that because, you know, we are I feel like November is our month of shoulds sometimes too. Like we've had Jessica (14:00) Mm-hmm. Kelly (14:00) many episodes over the years. definitely, listeners, if you haven't heard them, definitely check them out for previous November episodes about shoulds, right? Is the things that you think you should do versus like, do you really? Like really exploring, is it your internal motivation or is there some sort of outside pressure that you're like reflecting unfortunately. I don't Jessica (14:22) Yeah, yeah. Kelly (14:23) know. All right. So let's say someone realizes that there is something that they do want to change. Asking for a friend. What do they do next, Jess? Jessica (14:33) Yeah, I would encourage them to start small because I think we have this tendency to make everything into a major project. even I tell my clients to meet themselves where they're at. So if you're doing nothing, or not like, let's say you're like, I want to incorporate movement into my life and you're doing nothing, I don't think you should go to the gym five days a week. Right. I think that can Kelly (14:54) Yeah. Jessica (14:54) start by very small, parking really far away in a parking lot. Right. And walk, Kelly (14:59) Yeah. Jessica (14:59) to increase your steps, just start small. Kelly (15:02) Yeah, I think that's a good point because we all know when you do that, and I'm definitely as guilty, when you start that grand plan, you're apt to fail, right? You gotta start small. It goes back to even those of atomic habits and the teachings Jessica (15:14) Yeah. Kelly (15:14) of how you make changes. Jessica (15:16) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (15:20) yeah, I love this Jess. I think this is great. Jessica (15:20) Sometimes the most I think sometimes the most meaningful change starts with one conversation or one decision. Maybe you want to feel more connected to your spouse. It doesn't mean you need to book an elaborate vacation. Maybe it means intentionally spending twenty minutes together without your phones, you know? Kelly (15:40) or if you've been wanting to make new friends, maybe invite somebody to coffee. Coffee is such an easy Jessica (15:45) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (15:48) thing. It could be quick, it can be twenty, thirty minutes even just a quick coffee. Um Jessica (15:52) I would like to I'm gonna have AI scan all of our episodes and see if we if there's an episode where we don't talk about coffee. Kelly (16:03) I mean, or tea. If you aren't a coffee drinker, you can always grab tea. Or water, I suppose. Jessica (16:06) Yeah. Yeah. You know, yeah, but it's like exactly like if you're unhappy at work, maybe you start exploring what your options look like. I tell my clients it's like first of all, it's a huge step to be curious and know you want change. Second of all, gather information, right? It doesn't mean you actually the it doesn't mean the very first step is action. It's just gathering information. Kelly (16:28) Yeah. I think that's a great point because I also think sometimes when we do I for myself too, where it's like if you do want to make a change, this idea of what you think that change is gonna be is like overwhelming and prevents Jessica (16:43) Yeah. Kelly (16:44) anyone prevents us from like taking a

step forward at all. Jessica (16:48) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think there's something empower empowerizing. I just created a new word. There's something empowering. It's when you when you're empowered Kelly (16:57) I like it. Trademark. Jessica (16:59) to recognize, it's called empowerizing. there's something empowering about recognizing that you can want something different without needing to figure out the entire path immediately. Kelly (17:11) I think that's a great point. And let's use that as a segue to a reel over perfect moment. So question for you is where do you think you've confused being content with being comfortable? Jessica (17:28) I think sometimes I've done this with routines. I love having a routine. They make our life easier, but sometimes I get so attached to the way I do things that I forget I actually have a choice. Kelly (17:42) I think that's interesting. Jessica (17:45) Yeah, I keep doing something because it's what I've always done and it doesn't fit our schedule anymore. You Kelly (17:48) Yeah, yes, yes, yes. Jessica (17:51) our lives change, but sometimes we're still operating with these same expectations we had five years ago. Kelly (17:57) Yeah, I that's I mean, I feel like that's very relatable for sure, even for myself. Jessica (18:02) I I think it's also just allowing myself to pivot. so also just kind of giving yourself permission that something's not working, you know? Kelly (18:11) Yeah. Yeah. I think that that is the crux, right? Is it's like taking that moment to sort of be like, this isn't, I feel like I might need to make a change in this situation. Um, Jessica (18:23) Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (18:24) which I don't know sometimes because I think about that's to me, if we examine parts of our lives where like, this is hard. something feels hard that shouldn't be hard. That to me is where it's like contentment versus. comfortable. And that comfortable Jessica (18:41) Yeah. Kelly (18:41) isn't really comfortable if you talk think about it that way, right? Because Jessica (18:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kelly (18:45) it's just that you it's easier to do not you you feel like it's easier to do nothing than to make the change. But I think in the longer term, if you did make that change, it actually would make you feel more comfortable, ironically. Jessica (18:58) Yeah, yeah. Kelly (19:01) Let's talk about brighter moves, Jess. So my Jessica (19:03) Mm-hmm. Kelly (19:03) brighter move this week is to pick one area of your life and ask if nothing changed in this area for five years, how would I feel? Jessica (19:15) Yeah. I think that is such a great question to think about. And it again, Kelly (19:21) Mm-hmm. Jessica (19:21) that goes to even like my body and going on a GLP one where like if you've listened to the podcast Kelly (19:26) Mm. Mm-hmm. Jessica (19:28) all six seasons, of me like, right, okay, I've gotta like make this change because I'm trying to invest in my overall health, right? And my brighter move is a follow-up question. If I do want something different, what is one small action I can make? Not a total Kelly (19:48) Hm. Jessica (19:48) life makeover one action. Kelly (19:54) Love it, Jess. I like this and I want to sit with my all my aspects of my life to kind of see where those things fit in. And I loved it. Just a simple little action, right? Moving in that Jessica (20:05) Yeah. Kelly (20:06) that direction. Like sometimes we even talk about where it's like trying something on. Like what if you did, you know, what if did quit your job? Or what if you did change jobs? Or what if you Jessica (20:15) Yeah. Kelly (20:16) did get a dog? What would that look like? You know, how would that feel? So cool. I like this. Jessica (20:22) We're not assigning anyone a complete reinvention, just something small. And I think what I love about this conversation is that contentment and growth don't have to compete. Kelly (20:33) Yes, yeah, you can appreciate where you are and still be curious about what's next. Jessica (20:39) And you can also decide that what you have right now is enough. Kelly (20:43) Without needing to explain it to anyone else, just you. All Jessica (20:46) Exactly. Kelly (20:48) right. So next week, we're gonna continue on these really fun conversations for the month of November. and we will be talking about something that connects both of our two previous November conversations, and that is how do you actually decide? What success looks like for you. Jessica (21:13) Because that's difficult to do when you're constantly using everyone else's definitions. And if you Kelly (21:19) Yep. Jessica (21:19) want to get our freebie for the month, we have a fun freebie if you want to dive into fashion. we've got some prompts for you to have a little bit of fun with your fashion. And that can be you can sign up for our newsletter at chasingbrighter.com or follow us on our socials at chasing brighter. Kelly (21:36) See you next Thursday.