Ep 49. Liani Strauss on Keeping Tracksuit on Track의 전체 녹취록

that I swim with, are really that for me. 15 00:02:47.060 --> 00:03:00.799 There's a few more people as well, but I think just showing up week after week, swimming in the ocean and like experiencing that sort of thrill brought us together and I think they swim with me, but there's so much more that comes along with that. 16 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:16.140 So we cook together, we share a love of like reading, exploring. That's really awesome to have in a place where you've kind of like moved countries and had to start anew. So yeah, sport's a big part of what I love to do. 17 00:03:16.150 --> 00:03:25.280 People underestimate how hard it is to like start from the ground up in new countries. Like, I've done it from the UK and New Zealand, and I'm about to do it again in Australia. 18 00:03:25.820 --> 00:03:42.140 So when you came back from South Africa, how old were you, and was that really when your career started? Yeah, I was just graduated from uni, so 22 I think, and I came to Australia with nearly no plan. 19 00:03:42.180 --> 00:03:51.880 It was one of the decisions I've kind of thought about, not the least, but I didn't overthink the decision of moving countries, strangely enough. I kinda just packed up and went. 20 00:03:51.980 --> 00:03:59.740 And when I got to Australia, I was a live-in nanny for a family while I figured out my next move just so that I could have board and food. 21 00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:12.700 [laughs] And through a family friend, I actually landed an internship at a creative agency and brand consultancy called StepChange, and that was kind of my first real little work experience. 22 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:23.040 I was just an intern, but I got a peek into the world of startups kind of. They were operating like a startup. I remember that was the first time I heard the word stand up and everyone was- [laughs]... 23 00:04:23.080 --> 00:04:25.600 actually standing up, uh, in a little circle. 24 00:04:26.280 --> 00:04:43.180 And the energy was just really cool and now that I think back on it, that was my first exposure to brands and brand-building as well because they were a consultancy that were helping brands refresh their brand presence and tone of voice and websites and all those things. 25 00:04:43.230 --> 00:04:49.740 So anyway, that kind of nicely came full circle with my Tracksuit [laughs] my current Tracksuit role. 26 00:04:49.780 --> 00:05:04.600 But yeah, it helped me kind of understand that different types of roles existed outside of what I maybe thought was the path I would take, which was going into management consulting because that was what I was exposed to I guess in South Africa. 27 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:19.260 But Australia really... There was so much more out there, which was amazing. And yeah, that's kind of how my journey started, I would say. Awesome. So tell me more about Blue Crush. How did this group, I guess, exist? 28 00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:30.480 'Cause I get the feeling that this is like a huge part of your balance outside work. What is like your purpose with Blue Crush and yeah, what distances do you guys swim? What are you up to? 29 00:05:31.219 --> 00:05:51.120 [laughs] It's funny how we came together because it was almost not that intentional, but I met my friend Liz through a mutual friend and had been thinking about going to this ocean swimming group called Salties in Bondi for a little while but didn't want to go by myself and was kind of intimidated by the whole thing. 30 00:05:51.200 --> 00:06:04.090 But I was a swimmer in high school, so I was like, "Okay, I probably could swim across Bondi Bay," but Liz was just always the one that recruited everyone to these community things 'cause it's just like her bread and butter. 31 00:06:04.640 --> 00:06:18.848 And I finally went along with her, and we started going every Friday, and I think what happens when you commit to something consistently is you find people That do the same and have the same interests and kind of the same ethos about what that thing means to them. 32 00:06:18.968 --> 00:06:29.388 So Liz and I started going every Friday, and I-- through Liz I met Alex, and we met the other Alex also at Salty's. We were kind of not that close. We were just swimming. 33 00:06:29.888 --> 00:06:45.468 And then I think it was Liz who told us one day that there was this big swim event called the Rottnest Channel Swim, which is a crossing from Perth in Western Australia across to Rottnest Island, which is a 20-kilometer channel. 34 00:06:45.548 --> 00:06:57.068 And you can s- cross this channel by yourself, but you can also do it in a team of four. So she was trying to rally a team and got Alex, and Alex said yes. And I was on the fence. 35 00:06:57.148 --> 00:07:00.908 I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I wanna do a channel crossing. Seems pretty intense." 36 00:07:00.968 --> 00:07:10.408 [laughs] And then on the day, we were in the ballot-- she was in the ballot to get an entry to this thing, and she was like, "I need a fourth person. Like, Liani, please would you just swim with us?" 37 00:07:11.028 --> 00:07:20.807 And I was like, "Oh, okay, fine. Sign me up." And we got into the, the entry portal. You have about five minutes to submit your entry, and you had to choose a team name. 38 00:07:21.468 --> 00:07:29.168 And I was with her at the time, and she was, like, frantically putting these things in. She was like, "What are we gonna make our team name?" And I just said, "What about Blue Crush?" 39 00:07:29.348 --> 00:07:41.688 And we wrote it down, and the rest is kind of history. Um, and what that led to is us training together for a few months, multiple times a week. And then, yeah, we went and did the Rottnest Channel Swim. 40 00:07:41.908 --> 00:07:52.008 We've kind of been very close since then because it's one of those things where you have to overcome something that's quite challenging, and you connect and bond through that. So the name has kind of stuck. 41 00:07:52.048 -->

00:08:00.788 There's just four of us, and we still swim together. But that was really the, the tipping point, I think, the Rottnest swim. That's so good. 42 00:08:00.888 --> 00:08:11.948 It's almost like-- I feel like that name is gonna become a Netflix documentary one day. [laughs] I hope so. We've been captured once or twice by some of the photographers down at Bondi, so fingers crossed. 43 00:08:11.988 --> 00:08:25.728 [laughs] Awesome. That's so good. How did that swim go? The swim was challenging. Part of why we bonded so much is because of the lessons that we learnt that day. We actually got hit with some rough conditions. 44 00:08:25.848 --> 00:08:38.308 It was, like, three-meter swell, like, 40-kilometer-an-hour winds, and- Geez... just, like, very stormy. If you think about movies where ships are, like, in the ocean, [laughs] that's what it felt like. 45 00:08:38.488 --> 00:08:49.468 Um, but we persevered, and we were, like, so positive. We were pumping music and like, "We got this." So we swam, and we made it about halfway across the channel. 46 00:08:49.508 --> 00:09:01.908 At which point, we couldn't even see that we were going in the right direction because it was so, like, misty and chaotic. And I was in the water at the time, and they actually stopped me and, like, pulled me out. 47 00:09:01.978 --> 00:09:07.538 They were like, "You gotta get out. They've called it off." And I was so confused. I was like, "What do you mean? What's going on?" 48 00:09:07.588 --> 00:09:14.008 I thought maybe there was, like, a shark or something, and they had to pull everyone out of the water. But it turns out that it was just too dangerous, the conditions. 49 00:09:14.068 --> 00:09:25.168 They didn't have enough medical support for the solo swimmers, and they decided to call off the event due to the conditions. And I think in that moment we had to have a lesson in acceptance- Mm-hmm... 50 00:09:25.188 --> 00:09:33.408 because there was absolutely nothing that we could do to change the outcome. We couldn't make it to the finish, even though we wanted to try, we wanted to keep going. 51 00:09:34.088 --> 00:09:46.108 So yeah, we had a moment of like, "Oh my goodness, it's over," and we had to just accept and move on. And none of us left feeling like we hadn't accomplished the swim. We still felt really proud. 52 00:09:46.188 --> 00:09:59.148 So, but it was a crazy experience. Definitely the wildest ocean I've ever been on. [laughs] That sounds very intense. Yeah. [laughs] That's a bit about you and your personal life. So let's start with your career arc. 53 00:09:59.408 --> 00:10:11.848 Can you start to walk me through that? You've kind of gone from industrial engineering to customer insights to BizOps at H开pm, which is a insurance tech, actually connected to Queenstown, strangely enough. 54 00:10:12.148 --> 00:10:24.568 Uh, Jason- Yeah. [laughs]... the CEO, launched Mountain Club, which is a co-working space in Queenstown. And then you've gone on to BizOps at Tracksuit and then a chief of staff. So what are the things that you've seen? 55 00:10:24.758 --> 00:10:36.908 What shaped your growth? What lessons have you learned along the way on that arc? My arc has been interesting, and I've struggled a bit with kind of knowing the right direction to go in, if that makes sense. 56 00:10:36.968 --> 00:10:47.228 Because industrial engineering is a super generalist-focused type of engineering, and that's what drew me to it. And I guess it gave me a lot of optionality. 57 00:10:47.368 --> 00:11:00.498 But with optionality comes, like, you need to make a choice sometimes. But I've always tried to be extremely intentional with the choices that I make with my career, where I didn't think very much about moving countries. 58 00:11:00.888 --> 00:11:12.667 With every role that I've taken, I've almost agonized over whether it's the next right step for me or whether I'm just kind of getting fogged with something that society is telling me to do or something like that. 59 00:11:12.728 --> 00:11:24.328 So I think I've tried to experiment early on in my career with a few different roles to find what really resonates, and I hope to continue to do that so that I can have, like, many more careers throughout my life. 60 00:11:24.428 --> 00:11:37.248 But with Fathom, I was just very lucky to be given a shot at the customer insights role. I had never worked in a startup before, didn't really know how they worked or how to function in a, that type of environment. 61 00:11:37.808 --> 00:11:47.888 So came in very raw, I would say, and was just lucky with the people around me, that they took me under their wing and kind of showed me the ropes a little bit. And that was cool. 62 00:11:47.908 --> 00:11:58.228 It was a customer-facing role, which taught me to have empathy with the customer because they were the end user of the product, and I played a role of being, like, the bridge between the product and the customer. 63 00:11:58.408 --> 00:12:08.828 And that was really interesting learnings to have and has taught me a lot about what it means to kind of service customers in a tech environment. 64 00:12:08.838 --> 00:12:21.648 The learning curve was real, and I was thrown into rooms facilitating sessions about our product with senior executives from, like, PwC, AWS, the ASX, like, all these crazy companies. I was completely out of my depth. 65 00:12:22.108 --> 00:12:32.528 But what I kept telling myself is that I know more about our product than they do, and that's my only advantage here. [laughs] Because on paper they have so much more experience than I do. 66 00:12:32.568 --> 00:12:45.956 And then Fathom went through an acquisition, which Was a really interesting process and kind of triggered my interest in the internal workings of the company, where previously I was external-facing, like working with our customers. 67 00:12:45.986 --> 00:12:54.916 This acquisition really got me thinking, like, "How do the cogs kinda turn

behind the scenes?" That's what I started to think about and started to speak to people about. 68 00:12:55.526 --> 00:13:05.216 And then I found this community, and it was called the Early Work Community, which now they've kind of, yeah, pivoted. But I joined that and said that I was interested in ops. 69 00:13:05.836 --> 00:13:15.856 And a girl called Ilaha reached out to me, and we started chatting, and she was trying to get into ops, and then a little group was born which we called the Ops Masterminds. 70 00:13:15.886 --> 00:13:23.476 And there was like five or six of us that went out for dinner once that Ilaha had organized, and we're still in a WhatsApp group now. 71 00:13:23.516 --> 00:13:33.936 We go out for dinner, like, I guess every six to eight weeks and just chat about shared challenges and things. And that really helped me land the job at Open. 72 00:13:34.036 --> 00:13:42.476 And again, a leap of faith taken by the COO, Nate, that I would be able to come in and learn because on paper I had no track record of doing ops. 73 00:13:42.976 --> 00:13:57.756 But I somehow convinced him that my transferable skills would get me there and that I was just, like, malleable enough that they could teach me anything that they wanted to and I could be like a sponge absorbing the ways that they work. 74 00:13:57.796 --> 00:14:00.596 And I think that was really helpful for them at the time. 75 00:14:00.616 --> 00:14:14.636 And Open had just raised a Series B, needed to focus on operational efficiency, and the bizops team became like a bit of a SWAT team that would just be deployed into different areas of the company and solve the biggest challenges that we were facing. 76 00:14:15.336 --> 00:14:22.416 I guess insurtech sounds pretty boring, but I just loved the problems that we were solving. 77 00:14:22.476 --> 00:14:37.856 We had such an epic business infrastructure in kind of like how our data was structured and things, so we could get information about nearly anything to understand what was working well, like what was really inefficient, how our call center was performing. 78 00:14:37.956 --> 00:14:43.176 So I really learnt a lot from that and was working with a bunch of ex-consultants who 79 00:14:44.116 --> 00:15:00.216 they structured thinking and just way to craft narratives to take people on the journey was just incredible and really lucky to have been exposed to that because I think a lot of bizops folks come from consulting backgrounds, and I did not have that frame of reference at all. 80 00:15:00.736 --> 00:15:02.216 So that was really great. 81 00:15:02.736 --> 00:15:17.836 And then unexpectedly, Tracksuit came across my path and filled a gap that I didn't know that I was missing, and it was really that resonance with the mission of the company, which is basically helping brands build sustainable businesses. 82 00:15:18.316 --> 00:15:26.076 And I really love that because it means that they actually have to strive to create real value that resonates with people. And I've always just had a love of brands. 83 00:15:26.376 --> 00:15:41.776 So I think that and the opportunity to be part of the early days when nothing is really defined and everything is a bit chaos just seemed really interesting to me and like a challenge that I would grow from. 84 00:15:41.836 --> 00:15:53.636 And yeah, it definitely has been that. So I agreed to go for coffee with Dan, who was the chief of staff at the time, and the rest is kind of history. [laughs] So you mentioned a couple of things there. 85 00:15:53.716 --> 00:16:05.536 You mentioned almost that SWAT team moment and people taking a chance on you. How have both of those things kind of helped you discover where you spike in terms of your skill set? 86 00:16:06.356 --> 00:16:10.056 I think people taking a chance on me is quite empowering. 87 00:16:10.656 --> 00:16:21.556 It's daunting because you want to try and prove that they made a good decision, so I think that drives you to try really hard and make the most of that opportunity. 88 00:16:22.496 --> 00:16:31.596 And then I think the SWAT team thing just taught me that I have a knack to learn things quite quickly, and it's really interesting. 89 00:16:31.656 --> 00:16:37.926 I think the, like, the engineering background a little bit has helped me be a bridge between technical and non-technical stakeholders. 90 00:16:38.616 --> 00:16:44.266 So that SWAT team thing is like you go into a new function in the business that you know nothing about. 91 00:16:44.276 --> 00:17:10.876 The stakeholders in the business that you're working with are maybe deep experts in that area, and your job is to get up to speed on how that function works, what the problem is that they're having, and what potential solutions could be very quickly so that you can suggest what to do and design a process that's gonna, like, alleviate the tension point or be a, a solution that has longevity that you can set up and then step away from. 92 00:17:11.416 --> 00:17:16.756 And the only way to do that really well is to quickly understand the environment that those people are working in. 93 00:17:16.816 --> 00:17:34.956 So I think that's helped me a lot in my journey in an ops role where the context is changing all the time and the quicker that you can understand, like, what the different variables are that those people are working with, I think the more effective you can be and the better the solutions are that you can create. 94 00:17:35.816 --> 00:17:49.296 And actually, I spoke to your wonderful partner as part of my prep for this discussion, and he really pulled out the analytical skills that your engineering background has given you for this, like, ops environment. 95 00:17:49.316 --> 00:18:07.016 But he also mentioned that during this journey of growth, you've shifted from needing structure, almost like a tell me what to do and I'll complete, to backing yourself with that figure-it-out-mentality, and he almost like sees this

as a point when you just, like, really started flying as an operator. 96 00:18:07.076 --> 00:18:09.965 Can you take us and the listeners back to that moment? 97 00:18:11.356 --> 00:18:28.676 I don't know if it's a moment more than it is a culmination of moments and a few little data points or signals along the way that helped me realize that no one was gonna tell me what to do. 98 00:18:28.736 --> 00:18:38.536 [laughs] I think engineering is probably one of them where you're solving problems that have no memo and no answer. And that's quite scary. 99 00:18:38.636 --> 00:18:51.156 But I think probably two distinct examples from my time at Open that, like, really helped me with this realization is, one, I got feedback from my manager that I needed to back myself more. 100 00:18:51.236 --> 00:19:05.236 Like, I was super capable, but I wasn't coming across as someone that, like, backed myself, and his advice was that I should act as if, so almost like as if I'm more senior than I am or as if I'm more confident than I feel. 101 00:19:05.276 --> 00:19:14.196 And I think that was a real trigger in how I approached my work and the tendency to wait for guidance the way that was probably, like, drilled into me in high school and things. 102 00:19:14.236 --> 00:19:25.196 And then the other was when I worked on one of the toughest projects I've probably ever done at Open, I worked closely with the founder and CEO, and he would frequently say in meetings, "Please challenge me. 103 00:19:25.496 --> 00:19:37.976 I'm just making it up as I go." And that's really stuck with me because it made me realize that no matter how senior someone is or how experienced they seem, they're also making it up in a way. 104 00:19:38.036 --> 00:19:43.876 And, and what making it up means is just experimenting, trying things, seeing if it will work. 105 00:19:43.956 --> 00:19:54.456 And those two examples and I guess just the fact that in startups you won't make it if you wait around [laughs] I think made me just shift gears and just try. 106 00:19:54.466 --> 00:20:06.556 I'm lucky to have worked with leaders as well that give me that room and don't micromanage, but rather just trust that I'll be able to figure it out and then you kinda just have to step up to the plate. So 107 00:20:07.676 --> 00:20:12.516 yeah, it's been a bit of an evolution, I would say. [laughs] Yeah. That's so powerful. 108 00:20:13.236 --> 00:20:35.816 And a- actually, Alex, one of your Blue Crush pals, I actually really love this as a superpower, but she really named you as a human being able to help regulate the emotional temperature in high-stakes environments, and I think this is something that everyone learns on their leadership journey, but no one really, like, knows it's a skill, and I think her naming that is really powerful. 109 00:20:36.476 --> 00:20:42.216 So especially because it's not in your job description ever, but, like, we are expected to do it. 110 00:20:42.436 --> 00:20:55.456 So I'd love

to know, how have you learned to, I guess, regulate your emotions and keep calm under pressure, especially when you're in this glue style role where you're actually holding a lot of other people's emotions? 111 00:20:56.276 --> 00:21:11.836 It's a very astute observation of Alex, one that I probably haven't been able to name as something that I do myself. So i- yeah, an interesting kind of reflection to think about me as someone that is able to do that. 112 00:21:11.876 --> 00:21:22.416 I think I have a deep sense of empathy and often feel things on behalf of others, which can be a blessing and a curse, and I think it helps me relate to people. 113 00:21:22.456 --> 00:21:33.876 So my mom was a big role model here, and she's one of the most selfless and thoughtful people that I know and always holds space for others, so I think I've seen it demonstrated throughout my life. 114 00:21:34.496 --> 00:21:43.616 And I have found myself playing that role where I can be an ear to listen, a shoulder to, like, lean on when people need. 115 00:21:44.116 --> 00:22:04.556 But knowing what to hold is something that I am working on because it can be heavy and not everything is mine to solve, and I, I'm having to go through that journey, especially in this chief of staff role, when a lot of things come your way and you know a lot of information about a lot of different people. 116 00:22:04.636 --> 00:22:15.706 People tell you things, but it's really about figuring out when to just be an ear to listen to so- for someone, because sometimes that's enough. But then knowing when... 117 00:22:16.276 --> 00:22:23.836 let's say there's a trend or you are seeing signals that are recurring, when you actually need to do something about it and take action. 118 00:22:24.396 --> 00:22:33.796 So I think it's something that I'm still learning to do so that I don't feel heavy [laughs] when holding lots of space for people. 119 00:22:33.886 --> 00:22:44.876 And I've been also just learning how to make space for myself through different ways of working, like taking a day at home, 'cause I generally just love to go to the office and chat to everyone. 120 00:22:45.356 --> 00:22:55.616 So yeah, it's something that I'm figuring out, I would say. Yeah. But I love these moments where people tell you these things that you're great at, and you're like, "Oh, I never realized that I did that." 121 00:22:56.176 --> 00:23:02.246 So that naturally brings us to Tracksuit. So as you've kind of alluded to above, you've had a couple of roles there. 122 00:23:02.256 --> 00:23:15.516 So you've had your early zero-to-one builds in BizOps, and then you've had this transition from BizOps to chief of staff. So how do we begin to unpack this story? Early BizOps at Tracksuit was so much fun. 123 00:23:16.496 --> 00:23:23.236 I remember the days... Like, I joined, it was just Dan and I. We were basically just running operations. 124 00:23:24.036 --> 00:23:34.276 I was standing on the shoulders of giants because Dan honestly did so, so much in his first couple of months in Tracksuit before I joined. But we were the whole ops team, and everything was our remit. 125 00:23:34.796 --> 00:23:49.596 We looked after legal, invoicing, ESOP, office management, company coffee outings, literally everything. We were in a tiny little office in the Commons, and just the energy in there was electric every day. 126 00:23:49.656 --> 00:24:01.916 We were just trying to solve new things, and we went from, for example, issuing ESOP in just ANZ to setting up entities in the US and the UK to enable ESOP in those markets. 127 00:24:01.936 --> 00:24:10.316 And we had to build a system that let us, like, issue all of the required documents, which is vast and varied, for those four markets repeatably. 128 00:24:10.436 --> 00:24:22.856 So we stitched together like a Zapier, Google Sheets, DocuSign piece of art that eventually broke, but we were just kind of rolling with it and things were moving extremely quickly. 129 00:24:23.456 --> 00:24:31.756 But we were the bridge that helped set up processes and functions and then watched specialists come in and help those functions fly. For example- 130 00:24:32.768 --> 00:24:43.348 We hired in Josh, our financial controller, who just took over everything and did it way better than I guess we were able to, but we could create that bridge for him to come in and do that. And the same with legal. 131 00:24:43.588 --> 00:24:48.448 We've got Dave from legal, which we call him Dave from legal. [laughs] So The Office. 132 00:24:49.258 --> 00:25:06.188 [laughs] Yeah, I was really out of my depth, like managing sales contracts and working with a bunch of lawyers and trying to understand the lingo, to Dave coming in and just absolutely streamlining everything, and now holds the whole of Tracksuit's legal work, uh, which is incredible. 133 00:25:06.868 --> 00:25:28.668 So yeah, it's been an evolution from that perspective where we were kind of scrappy doing everything to now having people that really know what they're doing so that Dan and I have moved into roles where we're focused more on kind of turning the strategic vision of the company into operational reality almost, and that's kind of the transition from biz ops manager to chief of staff, I would say. 134 00:25:29.068 --> 00:25:42.088 The nature of the work is similar, where we're solving problems and helping the business run effectively. But the biggest difference is probably in my biz ops role, I was semi-protected. I was in a very defined space. 135 00:25:42.128 --> 00:25:55.488 I was in a team where now with chief of staff, I'm quite exposed. In a way, everything I do is high stakes and high impact because it affects nearly everyone in the company. I'm exposed to more information. 136 00:25:55.568 --> 00:26:04.568 I'm exposed to more conversations and need to learn how to channel those into, like, effective solutions without getting distracted and overwhelmed. 137 00:26:05.148 -->

00:26:20.068 So many things can, like, funnel to you as chief of staff, so part of the job is really proactively making time to think about the highest leverage places to focus, and that's something that I'm still learning, but that's probably been the journey. 138 00:26:20.108 --> 00:26:35.428 And now the next phase is all about setting up systems that can scale, where before it was okay to Band-Aid things together. Let's talk more about this COS and executive relationship and what that looks like in practice. 139 00:26:35.628 --> 00:26:47.758 What's one thing that's made it work well for you and Connor as you've, like, onboarded into this role and now gone through the next fundraise, and how do you support him and the wider executive leadership team? 140 00:26:48.948 --> 00:26:50.788 I think the first thing that Connor and I 141 00:26:51.888 --> 00:27:03.608 focused on and is never finished, we'll continue to focus on this, but building trust, and that is so critical in a relationship with an executive that you're working with and with most people. 142 00:27:04.128 --> 00:27:20.388 But we sat down and we talked about our preferred ways of working and how we take feedback and how we look and sound when we're feeling stressed, and that was really powerful. 143 00:27:20.438 --> 00:27:35.688 And even more so then we went out for dinner and just stepped away from work and talked about what we enjoy doing, like family life, all of that kind of stuff, and I think that foundation of trust translates into the work that we do together. 144 00:27:35.928 --> 00:27:47.848 So another principle that we have at Tracksuit is something called a say-do ratio, and it's really, really important for all of us to have a high say to do ratio. 145 00:27:48.328 --> 00:27:59.308 Basically, if you say you're going to do something, how often do you actually do it? Is it 100%? And I think the way that Connor operates is he's very giving of trust. 146 00:27:59.508 --> 00:28:07.888 So we talk about something, I say I'm gonna do it, and he just trusts that it's gonna happen and doesn't feel the need to check in or follow up. 147 00:28:08.348 --> 00:28:30.878 So as long as I'm doing what I say I'm going to do, that trust will hold, and I think that's the foundation of how we work together, which has been really cool and we've had to be really good about communicating if we're working on something together, what is the first draft so that we can iterate and move forward without trying to get something perfect or... 148 00:28:30.908 --> 00:28:39.828 Yeah, it's about open channels of communication and kind of figuring out what works and what doesn't work, and then acknowledging it and changing it and experimenting. 149 00:28:40.248 --> 00:28:49.987 We've been experimenting with a decision tree framework as well, so I can learn what level of decisions I should be raising to him versus I can just make on my own. 150 00:28:50.528 --> 00:28:59.198 So that's more than one thing, and I

know you asked for one thing, but there's three things for you. [laughs] Operator. I have a quick ask. 151 00:28:59.448 --> 00:29:05.098 This show is all about creating space for tech operators and learning how to be a better operator along the way. 152 00:29:05.608 --> 00:29:15.608 Please help me reach the builders, doers and multipliers behind great founders by hitting subscribe or follow wherever you're listening. Thank you. Operator. 153 00:29:15.688 --> 00:29:22.158 Are you seeing your support extending beyond Connor to the leadership team, or are you just more of a close ally to them? 154 00:29:23.228 --> 00:29:39.378 So my support extends to the whole leadership team and making sure that what we do at the executive leadership level is filtering down into the rest of the business. This is something that I, like, needs some work. 155 00:29:39.428 --> 00:29:49.888 It's been a crazy couple of months coming into the role and, like, finding my feet, so I think it's something that will develop more. But definitely that's part of the role because I'm... 156 00:29:50.568 --> 00:29:59.848 Yes, I'm chief of staff to, I guess, reporting into Connor, but I'm chief of staff for the whole of Tracksuit, and that's a big responsibility to bear. 157 00:29:59.908 --> 00:30:26.208 But I see it as an opportunity to make sure that everyone in the business has the right information so that they can work with clarity, and that means that the things that are discussed at the executive leadership meetings need to find a way into people's day-to-day work so that they all know they're going in the right direction and they're aligned to kind of the vision and the bigger strategy of where we're going. 158 00:30:26.238 --> 00:30:32.508 And I think a chief of staff role and, like, the level and the bar that you're trying to hold is forever raising. 159 00:30:32.528 --> 00:30:43.418 But given you mentioned there that, you know, it's early days, like, what bar are you holding for yourself? What level are you chasing? I guess what makes a chief of staff irreplaceable in the seat? 160 00:30:44.356 --> 00:30:56.056 Probably what makes a chief of staff irreplaceable and what I would want to be brilliant at is the ability to zoom out, zoom in in any given situation. So 161 00:30:57.156 --> 00:31:06.536 zoom out in, like, you understand the business context, you understand the commercial levers that can be pulled to drive outcomes. 162 00:31:06.656 --> 00:31:14.126 You understand the people impacts of decisions that are made, but at the same time, you know what's going on under the hood. You know 163 00:31:15.256 --> 00:31:23.456 that X customer churned last month and it had this impact, and you know the bottleneck that's happening in X team over there. 164 00:31:23.476 --> 00:31:37.376 And I think being-- having the context on both of those levels makes you a connector of people that operate in either the one or the other. So either in the zoomed out world or in the weeds. 165

00:31:37.416 --> 00:31:49.636 Yeah, being almost the connector between those two and being able to speak both languages and jump between them really effectively seems like quite a superpower, [laughs] or yeah, a powerful thing to bring to a team. 166 00:31:50.296 --> 00:31:58.516 And that's what I would be chasing more so than a particular level. But I see so much growth potential for me in this role. 167 00:31:59.116 --> 00:32:10.776 Um, because the company is evolving so much, the role is never likely to become stagnant or uninteresting. It'll probably become more challenging and interesting as the company changes. So 168 00:32:11.756 --> 00:32:23.476 just becoming really effective at doing that, connecting and knowing both the small and big picture of things. Yeah, nice. And I'm gonna follow that thread for the next two questions. 169 00:32:23.556 --> 00:32:28.336 So we're gonna start with the in-the-weeds version, and then we'll go to the zoomed-out version. 170 00:32:28.496 --> 00:32:40.356 So in the weeds, I guess, what have you seen break cross-functionally as you've grown from that fifty-employee mark to the hundred-employee mark to the now hundred and fifty-one [laughs] employee mark? 171 00:32:41.336 --> 00:32:49.026 I could probably rattle off a list of things that I've seen break. Invoicing processes. [laughs] No, that's a silly one. 172 00:32:49.096 --> 00:32:58.116 But I think culture, ways of working, operating rhythms, frameworks like ESOP frameworks, salary frameworks. 173 00:32:58.156 --> 00:33:08.236 There's so many things that you build for a certain point in time that you obviously try and think twelve months ahead and build them for the future. 174 00:33:08.736 --> 00:33:18.976 But inevitably, when you grow much faster than you anticipated, things either break or just need to be redefined. And that's exciting. It's a sign of growth. 175 00:33:19.096 --> 00:33:29.616 So we always at Tracksuit see it as a privilege that we get to kind of reinvent the way that we're doing things or just like reset and become intentional about the way that we want to keep doing them. 176 00:33:30.156 --> 00:33:40.976 Because things like culture, when you scale, if you're not doing it intentionally, it's gonna take on a life of its own. That's been really interesting, and I'm happy to go into any of those in more detail. 177 00:33:41.476 --> 00:34:01.456 But at the moment, ways of working and kind of operational rhythms is a big focus because we've now got so many people, and making sure that every single person in the business knows where to get information, where to share information, what they are working on, how it aligns with the strategy becomes more and more important because you're not all in one room anymore. 178 00:34:01.716 --> 00:34:13.376 You're in four different time zones across the world in different teams that have different priorities. So yeah, that's definitely a big one that we're focusing on as we hit this hundred and fifty employee mark. 179 00:34:14.316 --> 00:34:14.876 Yeah, totally. 180 00:34:14.916 --> 00:34:30.176 And you do such an incredible job of culture at Tracksuit, and I think everybody in the ecosystem here in New Zealand and Australia and the US and the UK can all say, like, it's a really admirable brand from the outside. 181 00:34:30.756 --> 00:34:42.896 So let's dive deeper into the examples around the culture piece and the ways of working. Like, people wanna show up every day knowing their work matters, which is a culture and a ways-of-working problem, right? 182 00:34:42.936 --> 00:34:45.796 So what's some more detail that you can share on that piece? 183 00:34:46.956 --> 00:34:59.636 This year especially, we've been going through a big cultural reset just to make sure that we're still aligned and, like, have the right perspective of what we're doing and why we're doing it. 184 00:34:59.676 --> 00:35:11.656 The reason that the Tracksuit culture exists and continues to exist in the way that it does and it shows up in the way that it does is because it's built into the DNA of Tracksuit. It's in every decision. 185 00:35:12.226 --> 00:35:24.566 It's in every conversation that is, like, at the forefront, and it's really driven from the founders, Matt and Connor, and I think it has to be that way if you wanna permeate it through the growth of a company. 186 00:35:24.616 --> 00:35:36.096 In every hire that we make, in every office that we open, the way that we go about that almost reflects the culture that we want to build. So it's kind of the backbone of Tracksuit, I would say. 187 00:35:36.656 --> 00:35:58.176 And things like the high-care, high-performance principle helps us understand that the more that we are caring towards each other, and that's not in like a nicey nice way, but in a, like, I care about you being better, so I'm gonna give you this feedback, or I care about doing good work, so I'm gonna spend another hour making this even better. 188 00:35:58.936 --> 00:36:07.616 That level of care actually lifts performance across the board. So we've really been trying to figure out ways to bring that to life. 189 00:36:07.636 --> 00:36:26.336 And our head of people, Christine, who is just like incredible with this stuff, is putting together a new, new frameworks for everyone to understand, like, what great performance looks like, so that people don't need to guess and don't feel like they don't know how to live up to that culture and that value. 190 00:36:26.956 --> 00:36:38.395 The same with the high say-do ratio thing. It's like if we keep calling out where people are saying things and then doing them, it kind of perpetuates that culture and lifts the bar for everyone. 191 00:36:38.436 --> 00:36:47.786 So culture is really, really intentional at Tracksuit. Everything we do is on purpose and with purpose, thinking about how we're showing up. 192 00:36:48.266 --> 00:37:06.200 And then into ways of working- I think is an ongoing puzzle that I'm

navigating, especially in my role where internal communications is such a big part of it, and figuring out how to get the right people in the business, the right information at the right time through the right channel. 193 00:37:06.739 --> 00:37:13.400 I'm not saying there's, like, a, a right way, but that's another way to give the people the clarity. 194 00:37:13.410 --> 00:37:27.360 So building systems that enable that is really important, while at the same time not inundating people with process just for the sake of it, but again, being intentional about what the purpose is of the systems we're putting in place. 195 00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:34.920 Like this year, we overhauled our quarterly planning process, and we use a framework called the W Framework, which is actually... 196 00:37:35.190 --> 00:37:39.960 It was an article in First Round Review that Airbnb and Eventbrite use, and it's this cool framework. 197 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:50.160 And we've been experimenting with that just so that we run some kind of planning process because before it's like everyone gets in a room and we've got a plan. Now we've got multiple different teams. 198 00:37:50.220 --> 00:38:00.040 Each team needs a plan, needs to filter that down. It's things like that where you have to keep raising the bar in what the company needs at that time. 199 00:38:01.060 --> 00:38:14.980 I think it naturally leads us back to the zoomed-out version of you guys have just raised a Series B. I don't know if anyone knows about that because you've not promoted it amazingly. [laughs] Surprise. Surprise. 200 00:38:15.520 --> 00:38:23.240 So you're at Series B now. We've got ways of working and, like, strategy, the W Framework, so you're doing bottoms-up, tops-down planning. 201 00:38:23.660 --> 00:38:37.340 Like, what are you most excited as Leanne, as chief of staff, about this next stage of growth? Ooh, we're just incredibly excited to figure out ways to bring more and more value to our customers. 202 00:38:38.100 --> 00:38:48.500 Our company's not that... it's not that old, and for the most part, we are selling the same thing that we were four years ago, which is brand tracking and brand health metrics. 203 00:38:48.560 --> 00:38:56.320 So I think figuring out ways to unlock more and more value for customers with the data that we have is very exciting. 204 00:38:56.420 --> 00:39:31.220 And from a business perspective, I want to work towards being a world-class chief of staff that's just driving immense value in the business that I work in, and I think building up my toolkit to do that is really interesting and kind of being intentional and conscious about the different tools that I put in the toolbox through the things that I get to work on and what I'm exposed to is really exciting because there's not that many people that get to be a part of a company that's growing quickly around the world, that's resonating with people, uh, but that also is an incredibly fun place to work. 205 00:39:31.700 --> 00:39:39.080 Um, like, we all work really, really hard, but we see the enjoyment as well in the challenge of kind of banding together. 206 00:39:39.140 --> 00:39:52.080 I'm excited to just keep doing that and keep figuring out how to empower people at Tracksuit to do their best work because I think I can have a role to play there in my role as chief of staff. 207 00:39:52.120 --> 00:40:09.340 Yeah, I think I can really help and do that so that people feel like they have meaning every day when they come to work because of how I've set up systems or whatever it is to connect those three things that I mentioned earlier of strategy, systems, and people and be at the intersection of that. 208 00:40:09.420 --> 00:40:16.380 Oh, it's so exciting. So then let's reflect. What would you say your superpower is at the moment as an operator? 209 00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:31.160 My superpower that comes quite naturally, I would say, is empathy and building trust, and I think this is quite essential when your job often relies on others doing what you ask of them and getting buy-in to do certain things. 210 00:40:31.220 --> 00:40:40.980 So that's a really helpful superpower. Another one that's quite random, but I can't help but throw in, is that I'm quite resourceful and creative under pressure. 211 00:40:42.040 --> 00:40:52.580 An example is, like, whipping up dinner with nearly no or very unrelated ingredients in the fridge and just, like, creating something, and I think at work it's the same thing. 212 00:40:52.660 --> 00:40:59.300 Like, under pressure, kind of need to think on your feet. That's when I'm probably my most creative. 213 00:40:59.340 --> 00:41:12.660 An example is we had our monthly track meet and I was in the office in Auckland and I had to quickly jump up and introduce two people on the mic who had just started, so new starters, and usually we... 214 00:41:12.720 --> 00:41:20.940 There was so many new starters every month that we would kind of just welcome everyone generally. But this month we had only two people, 215 00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:31.700 and it was about two minutes before I had to jump on and I had this spark of inspiration and I quickly ran up to each of them and asked about a recent hobby that they have taken up or enjoy doing. 216 00:41:32.460 --> 00:41:42.840 And then I, like, went, jumped on the mic and introduced each of them and said, "Hey, like, Josh is starting today. He's just got a new puppy and loves spending time with her. 217 00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:46.080 Alan joined and he loves cooking and he's a real foodie." 218 00:41:46.160 --> 00:41:58.560 And I think that just added a little edge for them and made them more approachable as well for other people on the team, and I feel like that was just a moment where I was, like, under pressure and I was like, "How can I make this better than just an intro?" 219 00:41:59.020 --> 00:42:03.740 [laughs] Yeah, you're almost, like, pulling out parts of the human to then

make it relatable. 220 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:13.320 Yeah, and there's, like, little moments like that where it's just I kind of have to think on my feet, which is when the creativity comes out. Yeah, nice. 221 00:42:13.560 --> 00:42:26.540 And then on the flip side, what do you think you're either working on or unlearning for this next stage in your leadership? It's a bit of a continuous journey, but I still need to figure out how to fail faster. 222 00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:32.620 This goes against all my natural instincts and somewhat perfectionistic tendencies. 223 00:42:32.740 --> 00:42:44.040 I always wanted to make my younger sisters proud, and so I'd put on a brave face and just, like, try and pretend that I'm not perfect, but try and strive to be as close to that as possible. 224 00:42:45.120 --> 00:42:58.740 But I think I've come to learn that being vulnerable, adventurous with trying, and also light-hearted in being okay with failure and making light of situations, because it's really not that serious, opens up my relationships so much more. 225 00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:10.700 So I'm, I'm really trying to, like, lean into that so that I don't lose touch because I'm striving for, like, perfection in a way. Again, it comes back to, like, waiting for guidance kind of thing. 226 00:43:10.720 --> 00:43:23.700 It's like no, just fail fast and learn through doing. So it's something that is not always easy, but we'll keep trying. But then when vulnerability meets empathy, got like a power move. 227 00:43:24.600 --> 00:43:39.260 Yes, I think so, and more powerful than your natural instincts would tell you. And then if we had to reflect on your entire career, what would the toughest moment of your career be? Gosh, tough moment. 228 00:43:39.560 --> 00:43:44.060 I think feeling genuinely lost with what I should do in my career. 229 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:58.860 Uh, when I was on my strange gap year time in Australia when I was working as a nanny, I applied for every single one of the consulting firms and got rejected, and at this point I didn't really understand what startups were or that I could work at one. 230 00:43:59.420 --> 00:44:05.440 But I was just quite lost at what my options were and how I would actually make something work. 231 00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:15.480 I threw everything into looking after these kids while also interviewing, trying to work out my purpose in my job, and didn't know anyone at the time. 232 00:44:15.520 --> 00:44:20.280 I was new in Australia and didn't really have a friend group to connect with. 233 00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:31.610 Probably didn't look after myself that well, and actually just ended up in hospital with burnout, which was really crazy because I was like, like, "What could be possibly wrong? I'm, like, healthy. Everything is fine." 234 00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:44.940 But I think all of those things kind of just accumulated. I didn't really ask for help. I didn't tap into anyone. I was trying to do it all by

myself, and that was a really tough moment, but a massive lesson obviously. 235 00:44:45.070 --> 00:45:04.220 [laughs] All those times always are, and I think I just recovered by reaching out to my support system even if they were far away, because the hidden cost often of moving countries is just, like, having to rebuild that network of support when you go through the times of uncertainty or loneliness. 236 00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:09.580 Uh, but if you, yeah, don't learn to reach out and ask for help, then just it's so much harder. 237 00:45:09.680 --> 00:45:23.400 So yeah, I would say that was a tough moment, and it was even, like, pre-career, properly kind of started, which is so strange. But once I got going, it's like momentum helps a little bit and you're like, "Okay, I can... 238 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:34.160 As long as I just kinda keep trying, [laughs] I'll be okay." But that starting point was really tough. And what's that told you about the signals that you need to look out for burnout today? 239 00:45:34.240 --> 00:45:46.480 I've gotten to know myself a lot since then, and I've managed to set up my life in a way that really supports my cup and my energy levels. 240 00:45:47.040 --> 00:45:57.980 Like, I know that if I've got a massive week at work and also have events on every night or social things on every night, I'm, like, not gonna be in a good place by the end of the week. 241 00:45:58.560 --> 00:46:10.120 So I've learnt how to manage my energy in that way, and exercise honestly has been a massive, massive part of that because I prioritize it above, like, everything. 242 00:46:10.240 --> 00:46:22.320 I wake up and the f- that's the first thing I do, even if it's just going for a walk. It just helps me regulate my nervous system, and that's helped me actually really not get to that place again. 243 00:46:22.350 --> 00:46:32.780 And I think taking time off and switching off completely is really, really tough to do in our industry because your laptop's always with you, your Slack's always with you. 244 00:46:32.820 --> 00:46:41.100 It's not like you go home and you just leave it all behind. It's... I'm a chronic thinker at nighttime, 'cause that's when I solve things 'cause it's quiet and peaceful. 245 00:46:41.600 --> 00:46:49.480 But really having, like, a routine to switch off in the evening so that I don't wake up thinking about work [laughs] has been super important. 246 00:46:49.560 --> 00:47:01.650 So yeah, just learning how to manage my, my energy, and I think I don't always get it right to kind of preempt feelings of being really low or close to burnout. We call it being crispy at Tracksuit. 247 00:47:02.040 --> 00:47:21.980 But I think also, speaking of crispy at Tracksuit, is that our founders have been really open and vulnerable about their own experiences with burnout and the way that we've set up certain policies at Tracksuit about annual leave and things like that have also just encouraged us to look after ourselves and

find that balance. 248 00:47:22.120 --> 00:47:34.900 I guess there's never true balance but- Inverted commas for the non-video watchers. [laughs] Yeah, inverted commas on balance, because it's always like you are leaning in one way or leaning a bit more the other way. 249 00:47:35.520 --> 00:47:40.400 So it's all about environment, and putting myself in an environment where I'm supported makes all the difference. 250 00:47:41.120 --> 00:47:49.560 Yeah, totally, and as you were speaking, I was like, policies, the annual leave policies, and then you just, like, started saying it all. I was like- [laughs]... "Ah, so aligned." 251 00:47:49.720 --> 00:48:00.440 [laughs] Yeah, there's so much at Tracksuit that's just so awesome, the way that we're thinking about things from first principles and not doing them because the government has an annual leave policy. 252 00:48:00.460 --> 00:48:06.199 It's like, no, we're like, what makes sense for us, for our people, and I love that about Tracksuit. 253 00:48:07.220 --> 00:48:17.540 Yeah, no, and it's so important, and it's actually so refreshing to hear that you're having those, like, crispy, as you say, crispy conversations internally just to normalize things. 254 00:48:17.600 --> 00:48:28.680 Like, working hard for a high-growth startup does come with consequences. However, these are the things that we have in place to keep the crispiness at bay, I guess. Yeah, definitely. 255 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:43.940 Okay, so we're now gonna look at the ecosystem as a whole. What's your take on the APAC ecosystem right now? The APAC ecosystem is amazing. I feel like I need to reemerge into it a little bit, to be honest. 256 00:48:44.140 --> 00:48:54.360 I've been deeply submerged in the world of Tracksuit, and I love the internal company culture and community we have there, and everyone that I get to work with. 257 00:48:54.860 --> 00:49:12.747 So I feel like I need to get back in touch kind of with the APAC startup ecosystem, but I just think generally that I love that people are Co-creating and sharing knowledge, which I think I've heard is very different from somewhere like Silicon Valley, for example, which is quite competitive. 258 00:49:13.328 --> 00:49:21.168 I think in Australia, people are trying to do amazing work but are willing to share their knowledge and share their learnings. 259 00:49:21.428 --> 00:49:35.868 So that's really awesome and I think the challenge that we have that we need to step up to is to continue to take risks and not become complacent, I guess, because Australia's always been a place where things go quite well. 260 00:49:36.388 --> 00:49:46.408 But I think the people that will grow and succeed the most are those that are still willing to take risks and do things differently. So I guess that's something that I would encourage us to do as an ecosystem. 261 00:49:47.308 --> 00:49:58.688 Particularly in your space of chief of staff biz ops, where do you see this space and the roles heading? I think these types of roles are just going in the right direction, to be honest. 262 00:49:59.088 --> 00:50:07.148 These roles are incredible because you almost don't have a choice but to keep learning because they evolve so much. 263 00:50:07.228 --> 00:50:12.948 They change with the context of whatever company you're working in and whatever stage that company is at. 264 00:50:13.728 --> 00:50:21.848 Yeah, generalist roles are becoming even more interesting, I think, because of AI and AI driving almost higher talent density in companies. 265 00:50:21.908 --> 00:50:48.228 So I think generalist roles are poised to benefit from that if we can stay open to learning because over time, people that are, like, utilizing AI and trialing things and experimenting are gonna be capable to do more parts of their role more quickly and create value so that you actually just can get so much done with small teams and they'll have disproportionately more impact. 266 00:50:48.808 --> 00:51:04.508 So I think because the nature of our roles are so evolving, we are just primed [laughs] to lean on learning new things so that we can stay at the cutting edge and continue to create impact. Yeah, really exciting. 267 00:51:05.348 --> 00:51:07.438 I was reflecting on this in an interview. 268 00:51:07.868 --> 00:51:18.188 Gabby, Howard, and I had a conversation on the podcast and it was like, it's such an exciting but nerve-wracking time to be an operator because suddenly everyone's on this level playing field. 269 00:51:18.388 --> 00:51:37.868 No matter your seniority, everybody's learning and I feel like if you are like a learning machine and have this learning mindset, which many of this, like, chief of staff operator roles, I just feel like it's such a prime opportunity to just leapfrog using all these tools and we'll be the most efficient we've ever been. 270 00:51:37.908 --> 00:51:40.978 Totally. It's definitely a little bit intimidating- Oh, totally. [laughs]... 271 00:51:41.008 --> 00:51:56.028 because I find myself in this dichotomy of there's so much to do, I just need to get it done, and taking time to learn new things and experiment because inevitably at the start that will take additional time. 272 00:51:56.068 --> 00:52:07.228 It might save you time in the long run, but carving out, yeah, the space to do that I find quite challenging in the throes of the day-to-day. Okay, and then what's next for you? Oh my goodness. 273 00:52:07.528 --> 00:52:48.168 What's next for me is just, I guess, being intentional about my north star as, like, a chief of staff and where I want to play almost, and then continuing to add tools to my toolkit that will give me the ultimate choice and freedom, I guess, to do whatever I want as my passions evolve 'cause I know that I will change and I, I hope that this experience at Tracksuit and learning how the business kind of works, the inner workings of building a successful business, will help me launch into whatever I want to

next and have, like, my next career, or my next career 'cause I think something that's really appealing and, like, interesting is having many careers across your life. 274 00:52:48.708 --> 00:52:59.488 And yeah, I think this is gonna give me the freedom to do that, whatever it is. I don't have a specific plan yet. I'm just really enjoying where I am. And for you personally? 275 00:53:00.408 --> 00:53:04.457 Personally, I'm actually getting married this year. Oh, congrats. Um, [laughs] 276 00:53:04.918 --> 00:53:15.768 that's a really exciting time for me and my partner obviously, but also just coming together with my whole family and kind of resetting as a family unit, and I've been getting... 277 00:53:15.828 --> 00:53:25.528 Spending a lot more time with my sisters, building a relationship with them, so continuing to invest in relationships I think is the theme of my year. Oh, that's so lovely. 278 00:53:25.587 --> 00:53:37.088 Are you gonna get married in Australia, South Africa? In South Africa. Ah, how good. We're both... Our families are still back over there, so yeah, we'll be heading home. Awesome. 279 00:53:37.848 --> 00:53:50.888 So the final part of the podcast is we do a quick-fire round. So I've tailored these questions to you and your work, so just say what comes to mind. Copy that. Life hack from being part of the Blue Crush. 280 00:53:51.828 --> 00:54:01.868 Show up no matter what. Go-to move when exec meetings get emotionally charged. Ooh, I haven't actually tried this yet, but I'm going to. 281 00:54:02.168 --> 00:54:27.408 My partner recently told me about this concept that he learned at an offsite, and it's actually from, like, an- the Army, it's like an Army concept, and it's about detachment and basically the concept is that if you're in a situation that have heightened emotions or super stressful or someone's experiencing stress, the best thing to do is remove your own emotions. 282 00:54:27.428 --> 00:54:34.528 So almost, like, detach yourself from the situation, zoom out a little bit, and then you'll be able to make much better decisions. 283 00:54:35.268 --> 00:54:48.108 So I think instead of getting emotionally kind of, like, sucked in, pause, detach, and then act. So I think I'm gonna try that. Pause, detach, act. Great little motto. Love it. 284 00:54:48.167 --> 00:54:53.228 [laughs] Most surprising thing about moving from a biz ops role to chief of staff. 285 00:54:54.088 --> 00:55:03.568 The most surprising thing for me was when I moved into the chief of staff role, people in the office were greeting me with the title chief and doing a little salute. 286 00:55:04.748 --> 00:55:19.852 [laughs]So I'd literally walk in, they'd be like, "Hey, chief." [laughs] That's so good. So between you and Dave from legal- Yeah. [laughs] You got the ultimate welcome. So good. Um, framework or tool you swear by? 287 00:55:20.752 --> 00:55:34.092 A super simple one, but using my calendar as a to-do list, it honestly forces me to confront my limitations as a human being and the time that we have, and also encourages me to ship work that's not perfect. 288 00:55:34.292 --> 00:55:40.912 'Cause when the block is over, just send it. What's your idea? Is it, like, a two-hour block, one-hour block? 289 00:55:41.812 --> 00:55:50.932 Oh, it depends on the thing, and what helps with the calendar blocks is it also keeps you honest to how long things actually take. 'Cause we often underestimate how long things will take. 290 00:55:51.372 --> 00:56:01.822 So I think, yeah, reflecting on, "Hey, did I actually get this done in this time?" is good to calibrate your brain to, like, how long things take. So it depends what the thing is. 291 00:56:01.832 --> 00:56:13.752 Sometimes I put in half an hour, I'm like, "Write up strategy for X," and then I get to the day, I'm like, "This is so unreasonable." I've, like, tried to attempt doing 10 really intense things. [laughs] Totally. 292 00:56:13.812 --> 00:56:20.572 I love the thought, though, of, like, I use my calendar as tracking, but sometimes I don't think to reflect back on- Mm-hmm... 293 00:56:20.612 --> 00:56:32.452 actually how long did that take, and then take that forward to the next strategy task as an example. Yeah, totally. Best advice you learned on day one in your South African engineering days. 294 00:56:33.672 --> 00:56:48.512 Oh my gosh, day one was tough. They told us that, "Look around, like, only 60% of you will make it through the four years," which is pretty dire. But the real best advice is that every problem has a solution. 295 00:56:49.472 --> 00:57:01.072 I think that's just something that I've taken with me. It's like no matter the problem, you'll find a way to solve it, and it's just, like, not getting stuck on, "This cannot be solved." It's like, no, just find a way. 296 00:57:01.152 --> 00:57:07.152 Just keep going. Yeah. Coolest AI use case you've built or used recently. 297 00:57:07.212 --> 00:57:19.352 Something I've used recently, which is not very high-tech but was inspired by my colleague and insanely capable operator, Harry Flett, our VP of Product, gave me this idea. 298 00:57:19.912 --> 00:57:32.452 So I basically told ChatGPT to act as the best executive coach in the world and tell me how to be the world-class chief of staff. Like, what framework should I use? How should I set up my calendar? 299 00:57:33.092 --> 00:57:36.772 How should I go about engaging with the leadership team, the CEO? 300 00:57:36.852 --> 00:57:49.882 Anyway, it was just really awesome, and it was this cool prompt, and it just gave me this kind of framework and north star of how to work in an environment that no one really tells you how to do it. 301 00:57:50.421 --> 00:57:59.832 Sometimes really hard to have, like, KPIs. Like, am I g- doing a good job? I have no idea. So I felt like that was just a really useful thing to make me feel like, okay, I can do this. 302 00:57:59.991 --> 00:58:08.892 [laughs] I love that we've all got

a thought partner on tap now. It's- Yes... just so good. It's brilliant. A leader you admire. 303 00:58:09.921 --> 00:58:18.292 A leader I admire is someone who I've recently been introduced to and had the privilege of working with. It's Sam or Samantha Gadd. 304 00:58:18.392 --> 00:58:36.962 She's the founder of Humankind, which is actually a New Zealand company, and they focus on org design and employee experience, and I've just been working with her recently on some things at Tracksuit, and I've learnt so much already, and it's just been incredible to see the way that she shows up, and she's the kind of leader I'd wanna be when I grow up. 305 00:58:37.792 --> 00:58:49.012 Yeah, she's so awesome and just so intentional about that human design and experience. Yeah. Awesome. So lucky to work with her. One piece of advice you'd love to pass on. 306 00:58:50.012 --> 00:59:04.832 Piece of advice is actually something one of our team members said this week. We were out on a run, a team track run club thing, and Ella, one of our product designers, said, "Don't say no to yourself. 307 00:59:05.292 --> 00:59:16.432 Let others say no to you." And I thought that was so powerful because it's like, just always say yes to yourself and do the thing. Like, other people will say no, but keep saying yes to yourself. 308 00:59:17.372 --> 00:59:29.132 What should I ask the next chief of staff I interview? Maybe what's the strangest task you've ever had to work on and what you learnt from it. Sometimes the weird things have good lessons. 309 00:59:30.032 --> 00:59:39.252 And then who should I bring on the pod next? Someone who I've been chatting to a bit recently is, um, Julian Rapertoni. He is just an awesome operator. 310 00:59:39.492 --> 00:59:53.472 He's part of the Aussie ecosystem and just, like, has a great perspective on life and love sort of the way that he operates, but also is just someone that's easy to chat to over a glass of wine or whatever. 311 00:59:53.532 --> 01:00:01.032 So yeah, he was the head of operations at Unyoked for a couple of years, and now is the chief of staff at Clove, which is a seed stage startup. 312 01:00:01.112 --> 01:00:18.672 So yeah, just think he's seen some cool stuff and a great person to speak to. Nice. He's gone from the wilderness to recipes. Yeah. [laughs] I love that transition. [static] So building and scaling companies is hard. 313 01:00:19.012 --> 01:00:26.692 We all know that. But what's one mindset or daily practice that helps you stay grounded in the chaos of scaling? Something that stay... 314 01:00:26.852 --> 01:00:38.612 helps me stay grounded that I've talked about, probably it's a bit of a thread, but yeah, probably just the movement piece. And I think for me it's about movement unplugged. 315 01:00:39.212 --> 01:00:52.222 So swimming or running or even walking or reading with no technology is something that just helps me clear my thinking. It's amazing how much you can just get clarity of thought on a walk, stepping away. 316 01:00:52.792 --> 01:01:06.092 So yeah, I would say that's something I do daily, and it's extremely effective. Yeah, I love the unplugged moment. I feel like it for a while there I was going to sleep trying to listen to something to fall asleep. 317 01:01:06.172 --> 01:01:16.312 It doesn't work. [laughs] Does not work. It just sets my brain off on, like, all other tangents and then I'm, like, solving problems left, right, and center. 318 01:01:16.492 --> 01:01:23.912 [laughs] I know even if it's outside your industry, it's just like spark- Yeah... spark, spark. [laughs] Leonie, thank you so much for your time today. 319 01:01:24.052 --> 01:01:36.572 It's been wonderful to have you here, and I'm so pleased that we could both finally connect. So thanks for spending your Saturday with me. Where can folks connect with you? Just LinkedIn. Yeah, just find me on LinkedIn. 320 01:01:36.892 --> 01:01:46.652 I'd love to have a Substack one day, but one thing at a time. One thing at a time, girl. [laughs] Thanks so much, Laura. It was so lovely. And that's a wrap. 321 01:01:47.052 --> 01:02:01.052 Today's episode was recorded and edited by me, your host, Laura Nichol, with original music composed by Stephen Sheldon. If you enjoyed this episode, please give us a follow and we'll see you next time. [outro music]