Using simulation in Psychotherapy Training: What can we learn from the man who played Trump의 전체 녹취록

WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.959 Deliberate practice is all well and good for simple things, like learning how to play a musical instrument or learning how to master a sport. 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:11.199 But what about something complex like psychological therapy? 00:00:11.439 --> 00:00:21.920 When we think of our sporting or musical examples, it's easy to imagine David Beckham kicking the same ball a hundred times over and over again and honing his craft. 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:32.880 It's just as easy to imagine Leonard Cohen struggling over hallelujah over the course of 20 years with that level of perfectionistic reiteration. 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:41.520 But how do you do that for something that goes on for an entire hour and when often the feedback isn't known for at least a week? 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:44.399 The answer is simulation. 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:54.000 The closest that I've managed to find to psychological therapy in the deliberate practice research is actually American presidential debate preparation. 00:00:54.159 --> 00:01:01.280 And I saw this interview recently with the man who prepared Kamala Harris for his debate with Donald Trump. 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.359 Just have a look at what he's got to say. 00:01:03.679 --> 00:01:05.280 So tell me, take me through the prep. 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.519 First of all, what was your approach in that prep to playing Trump? 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:13.599 And what are the kind of signature things he does in debates that you were doing? 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:16.319 And then how was that kind of gamed out and prepared for? 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:25.120 From my perspective, you just want the candidate to get used to what they're going to see and hear and experience. 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:27.840 Did you do off the rails as him? 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:30.799 You do everything. 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.799 I mean, you do I'm the ball machine in my mind. 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.560 You know, you get a good tennis player who wants to get better. 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:40.719 Um I have friends who are obsessed with tennis. 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:42.319 They get a tennis pro. 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:48.000 You want to test your backhand, you set the ball machine to test your backhand. 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:49.359 You want to do your forehand. 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.920 If you want to use the ball machine as a target for your serve, great. 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.640 Um it's really it's simulation. 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:05.760 It's I think any kind of prep, whether it's congressional prep, deposition prep, or any kind of interview, you want people to have thought things through. 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.120 It's not like you're sitting around saying, okay, here is a good line, memorize it. 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:09.360 Right. 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:32.879 So although we often think of role plays as being artificial and not truly representative of what's going on in the psychology room, actually they are an effective simulation that lets people practice something over and over again, as he said, setting the ball machine and practicing the same skill until you do it in a way that you're actually happy with.