Building the Operating System for Global Work: Ontop CEO on Payroll, Compliance & Scale의 전체 녹취록

00:04:56.800 And we raised our series seed of 4.5 million dollars. 00:04:56.959 --> 00:05:08.079 So it was a very enriching experience at say, where you get to learn the tactical things, but actually then learn to fundraise, which is not something that it that comes very naturally to it's not easy. 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:09.759 It's not easy, it's very difficult. 00:05:09.920 --> 00:05:25.439 And then I think YC really sets you up for success on clarity, just cutting through the BS, you know, and just explaining clearly what you're doing, and that clarity really gives you a North Star on where to where to go and how to build it. 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:26.240 Awesome. 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:27.680 Let's talk about on top. 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:29.920 What problem does on top actually solve? 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:32.959 And this is how I explain it to my family and my parents. 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:35.600 Moving money across borders sucks. 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:36.079 Right? 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.959 The old system, banks are not efficient moving that money. 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:43.439 Wire transfers, we've all felt that pain. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:49.839 Now imagine having to do that for hundreds of employees that you might have overseas. 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:51.120 It becomes a burden. 00:05:51.199 --> 00:06:01.199 You need at least 20 administrative people just sending out wires and moving money and figuring out how to contract them, what to sign, what documents to collect. 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:03.040 It becomes a huge overhead. 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:08.959 That's what we detected when we saw the opportunity while we were in lockdown during COVID. 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.680 So what we built is actually very easy. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:20.720 We help companies hire and pay anywhere in the world, just as if you were paying someone here locally where you set up your office. 00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:29.199 And that eliminates the borders and the restrictions that we previously had on how to expand internationally, for instance. 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:30.959 What talent to access. 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:51.279 In essence, we discovered a new way of moving money, getting people paid, and that led us to become a very unique kind of fintech where people can hold their money in dollars, can access a card, can access financial services, and then take that account wherever they go, wherever they decide to work. 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:53.199 That's the concept of freedom. 00:06:53.600 --> 00:07:02.560 What were the challenges of you as a founder, like um establishing on top in those much countries and what work needs to be done for that to happen? 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.079 Yeah, you know, Angelique, how they say that ignorance is bliss? 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:06.480 Yeah. 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:07.680 That's so true. 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:17.040 If I would have known what I noted today about compliance, contracts, money movements, I would have never started this business. 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:23.120 So actually, the hardest thing was actually putting myself in the shoes of the user. 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:24.959 How does this really work? 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:31.920 What does it look like to have a very smooth global transactional system? 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:46.319 And then from that ignorance of not knowing what we were doing, actually try to piece in together the different aspects to it because when you operate in 150 countries, one of the hardest things is compliance. 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:51.920 Each country has different regulations, requires different documents for people to get contracted. 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:53.839 Then let's talk about money movement. 00:07:53.920 --> 00:08:00.879 How do you move money from the US to more than 150 countries and make it a seamless experience? 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:06.160 If you try to do it via the banking system, well, it might as well take one month to do so. 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:06.480 Yeah. 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:12.399 And the challenge was how do we move money in minutes, not days, not months? 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.920 In minutes so that people can get paid in a very easy way. 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:24.000 So piecing that together, plus all the compliance needed around any money movement system is paramount. 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:30.079 As an investor of mine told me, he told me, he told me, hey, we're not in Kansas anymore. 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:31.360 This is not easy. 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:33.600 This is not starting a fitness company. 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:35.919 This is things that you go to jail for. 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:49.840 So you need to take money off compliance, KYC, KYB, AML, all of these strange names that were unknown to me, I had to become an expert on it and take it seriously. 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:51.360 So those were the challenges. 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:59.679 How to build something that scales fast, but without doing anything that's stupid that compromises my employees, my investors, and myself. 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:08.639 And some of the establishments and corporations around here still believe in the old ways of like, hey, you have to be in the office nine to five. 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:13.519 In terms of your shoes as a founder, you've worked with your employees, they're all remote. 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:14.960 What's the result you're seeing? 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:19.360 Is there a big difference from I'm sure you also have experience of working with folks in office? 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.639 Is there a big difference in terms of performance that you've been seeing? 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:23.919 Big difference. 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:29.360 When you give people back their time, it's incredible how much more productive and creative they get. 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:38.960 When you limit people and make them go to an office just because you have this very fancy office

with new furniture, they still feel start feeling trapped. 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.559 That's not the world we live in right now, especially for women. 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:46.080 Women were getting penalized in the old system. 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:54.960 Because what does that mean when you have a family, when you need to take care of your household, of your kids, and but then they make you go to an office just because? 00:09:55.440 --> 00:10:04.159 Right now, with this new system, we're actually empowering a whole new workforce of people to be able to meet the needs of their families but also hold high-performing jobs. 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:20.080 And that's really inspiring because, in a sense, it's giving back the power to people that didn't have that uh opportunity before, and now they can it can make ends meet in the correct way without having to sacrifice their life. 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.159 That in itself is the most amazing benefit that you can give someone. 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:30.159 And when you treat your team right, they're happy, they're at peace of mind. 00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:33.279 Well, that makes you very productive. 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.679 People start loving the company because it's actually not at battle with their life. 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:48.399 And that's truly where inspiration, where creativity are fostered and can really come through, and that benefits everyone. 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:56.240 And of course, let's not even go to the cost savings that you might have while having people work remotely. 00:10:56.720 --> 00:11:12.320 When you don't need to invest in fancy coffee machines and office furniture that no one uses and all the little added things, saving costs, making people more efficient, and the company as a whole more well-rounded. 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:16.879 Because when you have people from different parts of the world, well, the culture flourishes. 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:21.919 It's amazing to have that clo cross-pollination of ideas and that global mindset. 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:23.440 That's something that's really powerful. 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:24.240 Amazing. 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.639 Let's talk about your go-to-market strategy and growing um on top. 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:32.000 How difficult it is to sell on top in those types of markets. 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:35.200 Do you want to move money easily at better fees? 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.279 Do you want to hire people outside your local talent pool? 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.279 When you start answering those questions, the answer is an obvious yes. 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:45.120 How do I sign up for this? 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:51.279 Especially because the selling point is very strong when you realize this is not an HR problem. 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:53.279 It's a money movement problem. 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:59.840 And actually, people p care about their paycheck, how fast it gets to you, how you can use it. 00:12:00.159 --> 00:12:00.399 Right? 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:13.360 And this is true for uh remote workers in emerging economies that don't or were not able to hold US dollar accounts, for instance, or an international card. 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:31.039 When you add up all of those points, the go-to-market becomes really easy because we're actually telling you, do you want to optimize your operations, not have to spend thousands and thousands of dollars a month in administrative staff and wire fees and uh contract revision? 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.759 Do you want to do everything automatically and you can basically cover the whole world? 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:52.080 You could have people in Argentina, in Colombia, and Spain, and make your company much more efficient, go around the clock, and you won't even have to think about how to do that because our system, using AI, using all of our compliance systems, uh, will figure it out for you. 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:59.039 You just have to press a button, you'll get everyone paid, people will have amazing benefits, and they will love working for you. 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:03.679 In terms of go to market, what was the biggest contributor of your pipeline today? 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.039 We started out with a very strong pipeline around partnerships. 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:07.360 Okay. 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:16.799 So staffing companies, recruiting agencies, I mean, everyone in the HR business that had built the EHR stack but didn't have the payments resolved. 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:23.679 We really went deep into the fintech aspect to it because, as I said, this is not an HR problem, it's a money movement problem. 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:25.440 And we solved that first. 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:30.879 So by building that infrastructure, we can connect it to virtually anyone that is in the same kind of business. 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.279 And they use it very gladly because it works. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.159 It's the most advanced pay orchestrator in the world. 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:44.480 And now our second motion in our go-to-market is how to turn that into an engine that attracts the global workforce. 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:52.960 So we're launching the global account, and that is a unique kind of account that you can have from anywhere in the world. 00:13:53.120 --> 00:13:55.200 You can open and set up in minutes. 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:59.039 It's an account set up in dollars, very soon in euros. 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.159 You can have a card, a non-top Visa card. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.919 It's a platinum card, beautiful card that has tons of benefits. 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:10.399 And then you can set up a fund where you can plan for retirement. 00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:13.200 You can access different financial services. 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:20.240 Plus, that makes it super easy for people to request payments from new employers, new clients. 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:37.440 Where

we're giving people anywhere in the world the option to have a very, very work-friendly account that they can take anywhere, either if it's uh their day job, standard job, or they're doing mini jobs or side gigs, they can use it in a very versatile way. 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.559 And that in itself is giving people freedom. 00:14:40.639 --> 00:14:44.320 Yeah, it's giving them power to take that account anywhere in the world. 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:56.399 So if you move to Mexico tomorrow, you don't even have to worry about setting up a bank account there because you take your on-top level account with you and you can just get paid and transact from there. 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:57.120 I like that. 00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:04.159 So you can literally travel the world and then just have on top with you and you have a and not have to worry about that, which is so difficult. 00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:13.840 When I when I moved to this country, one of the most difficult things that I had was opening a bank account, getting a credit card, oh, the credit score, we won't give you anything. 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:15.440 So it's really difficult. 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:23.120 If you think about how contractors have been treated as second-class citizens, it actually makes no sense. 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.000 Yeah, and a contractor is a job, you know. 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:30.720 Why should we treat them in the banking system as a second-class citizen? 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:33.679 And contractors are the future of the world. 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:40.799 If you think about where people are working, how they're working, what it actually makes no sense that banks are not paying attention to this. 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.360 It makes no sense that you can't get credit, you can't get a mortgage if you're a contractor. 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:51.039 So that's what's about to change, and that's the thing in the market that we're capitalizing on. 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:55.840 It's a a systemic failure in the market that we decided to cut through. 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.240 The peril space in general is, you know, there's a lot of competition there. 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.279 You have deal, you have remote rippling, and all that. 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:10.159 How do you compare on top and what's the main differentiator of on top versus those competition out there? 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.799 Yeah, basically they went deep into HR. 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:19.440 They are giving a vote of confidence to something called EOR, employer of record, so traditional employment. 00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:30.000 The difference is we went deep into fintech, moving the money, understanding the financial services around the new workforce, which we consider to be contractors. 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:34.080 So we decided to venture out of EOR, full-time employment. 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.080 We're not building for that because we understood, and what we're seeing is that the world is going contractor. 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.639 EOR is a thing of the past. 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.440 EOR is a tax on your company. 00:16:46.320 --> 00:17:08.480 If you're paying$10,000 a year per employee, that's way too much when you have this sophisticated contractor agreement where it's easy to transact, it's clear for both parties, you can bake in IP things, you can just customize it in such a way that it becomes fair for both parties and then m the money move moves in a smooth fashion. 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.799 What was the biggest pushback you've gotten whenever you pitch on top? 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:14.000 I'm I'm curious about this. 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.240 I think your take on remote work is very timely. 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:28.240 But have you encountered any circumstances wherein you're pitching or you're talking to you know an establishment and they're like, they're not ready for this, or there's pushback that you've been receiving? 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:29.440 Maybe walk us through that. 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:35.200 Well, the first thing is there's many believers, there's many non-believers in remote work. 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:35.519 Yeah. 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:35.920 Right? 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:43.039 They're still skeptical, and that's the older generation because they haven't set up the correct framework on how to work remote. 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:46.559 So whenever they're they've tried it, it doesn't work. 00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:56.960 Have you seen people that just take calls and don't have their camera on and they don't have proper systems in place, they don't teach people how to communicate remote, they don't set up proper goals. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:01.519 So, in a system where you don't have the framework, remote work falls apart. 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:08.240 So there's non-believers, people that are confusing, I would say, the map for the territory. 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:22.880 So they're stuck in this concept of what work means, what an office means, what hard work means, and they see it as okay, no, remote work uh actually doesn't help you achieve your goals as fast. 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:24.880 I strongly disagree. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:29.680 And then the other challenges is okay, why don't you grow faster? 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:39.440 And this is where it gets tricky because we've had to compromise speed, I would say, to be able to take care of compliance in the correct way. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:47.519 We have very consolidated partners that we operate with that require us to handle things in a very orderly way. 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:58.000 We can't mess it up, we can't do crazy things and just go and move fast and break things because when you break things, you might end up in jail or you might end up in trouble. 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.160 And you don't mess with people's paycheck. 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:12.480 So we take that very seriously, and we've spent our

fair share of time building and really consolidating that infrastructure so it's safe, so that it works, that's efficient, and that it's on the latest technologies. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.200 For instance, we're now incorporating stable coins. 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:21.279 How to make that safe enough, how to make that understandable, because there's people that still don't understand how stable coins work. 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:37.920 And it's part of that uh where we get challenged uh on speed, on growth rates, but I'd rather not grow that fast and keep everything very well built because I'm like we're building a company for the next 30 years, not for the next two years. 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:46.319 We are already profitable and growing, and that's very important, and keeping our team engaged, living and drinking our own Kool-Aid. 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:58.240 So we are 185 people in 20 different countries, and it operates beautifully because when some of us sleep, others are working, and it's yeah, so it's a non-stop operation. 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.079 What's next for on top? 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.279 What should we look out for in the next six to twelve months? 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.519 So, what you're gonna see is a very strong go-to-market around the global account. 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:16.960 Now we're really stepping in and consolidating that concept where you can have fiat, stable coins, where you can have an investment fund where you can access credit. 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.680 Yeah, we call it paycheck advance, right? 00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:24.000 So advancing the invoice contractors are sending their clients. 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.559 You can advance that paycheck at any moment in time. 00:20:27.200 --> 00:20:31.680 We're launching our full suite of financial services for this new workforce. 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:31.839 Okay. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:39.200 And going straight to the worker, saying you can open this up, set it up in minutes, and then just start requesting get paid. 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:44.160 So I would say in the next 12 months, you're gonna see really what hypergrowth looks like. 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.079 Now that we have everything ready, it's time to present the accelerator. 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:57.359 Your three books move from exposing collective stupidity around success to building powerful habits to exploring woo-bei and effortless action. 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:04.559 How those ideas taken together shape the way you build on top and the kind of global remote work culture you're trying to create. 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.839 I became an author by accident. 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.200 But the reason I decided to write three books and the third one is not out yet. 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:19.119 The reason is I kind of sensed it as the movements in a symphony. 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:28.559 So the first book exposes collective stupidity, which is what is stopping us, each and every one of us, of just building things and getting out there. 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:34.799 There's a lot of myths around what starting up means, how to start a company, what success means. 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:36.880 So that book eliminated that. 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:48.799 Powerful habits gives you a strong foundation around discipline, habits, stoicism, how to handle difficulty and embrace it, which is what you need when you start a business. 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.759 And then once you have that clear, strong foundation foundation, it's time to let go. 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.839 Wu Wei is the concept of effortless action from Taoism. 00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:58.480 Right? 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:05.920 And then you soon start realizing that when you have a strong foundation, you've started our company, our discipline, you need to start letting things go. 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:12.400 And that doesn't mean giving up, but actually being able to delegate, trusting people, not forcing things. 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:17.680 When you start micromanaging people and everything, that's when things go south, people get burnt out. 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:42.079 I kind of sense that in those are the three components, and I I I like to think about my books in that way, anyone that reads them, the three components to being able to start a company and not die trying, or eliminate the barriers, the mental barriers, and the beliefs and the myths, then just build a set of habits and discipline that sets you up for success. 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:42.640 Great. 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:46.160 For those folks who are actually interested, where they can find you. 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:49.279 Yeah, just go to getontop.com. 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.359 You can find us there on our webpage. 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:53.359 On social media, we're pretty active. 00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:56.000 LinkedIn, Instagram, TikTok. 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:57.440 Um, just reach out. 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:58.559 We're pretty responsive. 00:22:58.640 --> 00:22:59.759 We take that seriously. 00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:03.359 And of course, I'm always there, open up for a good chat. 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.759 Search me up in Link on LinkedIn. 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:07.519 I answer all of my messages. 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:11.759 I'm not like those founders that never answer the message. 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:13.359 I I always answer back. 00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:13.839 Amazing. 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:15.119 And I take that seriously. 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:16.400 So honestly, reach out. 00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:21.519 We'll be happy to help you out, scale your operations, figure out how to hire globally. 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:24.240 If you still haven't gotten into it, try it out with us. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:27.200 Start with one or two contractors and you'll see how your life changes. 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:28.400 Let's do hot takes. 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:29.359 I have four questions. 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.440 Yes, no, maybe, or if you want to pass. 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:32.000 Okay. 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:42.319 The next generation of unicorns will be built entirely by distributed teams. 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.799 No headquarters, no office, no exemptions. 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:45.759 Yes. 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:52.799 The 9 to 5 workday is functionally dead, and any company still enforcing it, quietly losing the best people. 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.319 Hell yes. 00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:01.920 Remote work has done more to close the global wealth gap than any government aid program in the last decade. 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:02.640 Yes. 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.559 The first trillion dollar HR company will never sign a lease. 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:09.200 Its only office will be a login screen. 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:10.319 Yes. 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:11.119 Amazing. 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.720 Thank you so much, Julian, for joining us. 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:13.279 This has been great. 00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:15.279 Thank you very much, Angelica, for the invitation.