Episode 75: Eileen Sendrey, RCST, CMT, Breema Instructor and Practitioner, Womb Surround Facilitator, Prenatal and Perinatal Somatics Practitioner and Instructor의 전체 녹취록

and mentoring with Myrna Martin and Ray Castellino. 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:32.800 Eileen's work is based on the understanding that each individual has an inner guidance system to their own optimal health. 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:39.840 People don't need to be fixed, just supported and connecting with their own innate rhythms, impulses, and intentions. 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:52.319 And today on the show I have my really good friend and colleague, Eileen Sendry. 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:02.000 We're friends and colleagues and do so much together. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:04.479 I'm so appreciative of you, Eileen. 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:06.080 Really welcome to the show. 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:08.879 Thank you so much, Kate. 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:14.479 And I um just really want to appreciate this space for this conversation. 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.160 And I really appreciate all the spaces for conversations that you create. 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:29.360 So I just feel a lot of warmth in my heart right now and um just joy to be here with you. 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:31.199 Yeah, me too. 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.759 I'm sitting here reflecting on all the things that we've done together. 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.680 Um, because we didn't really meet until we did the advanced family training with Ray Castellino. 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:43.120 I mean, that was the first time I met you. 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:45.519 I didn't really know about you before then. 00:04:45.759 --> 00:05:08.480 And you and I and Marmot Stetzinger sort of formed a group and deepened into our knowledge and our practice of being with families, with this thing that we love so much, the working with families through the Castellino lens, just understanding that babies are sentient and family work is so important. 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:28.639 Um but I then we went on and we we've done the hearth together and we've explored so many things and we stay in peer supervision together all these years, um, so many years later, uh, that we we still develop and have each other's back in so many ways. 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:38.240 And so I'm I'm wondering, Eileen, if you would like to share a little bit about yourself, like some of your history and the things that you want people to know about you. 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:40.399 Sure, thank you. 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:53.360 Yeah, as I'm sitting here, as I was listening to you, what is coming up for me is uh me as a little girl. 00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:56.319 And um I am bilingual. 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.680 I grew up in the United States and Finland. 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:19.360 And so there is a way that who I became is um really informed by um being bicultural, I don't know how you would say that, just um two cultures that really um impacted me. 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:37.199 And um at a very young age, I, you know, looking back, I didn't have words for it, but I had very high empathy and um a lot of um, you know, at eight years old, I was

following what was happening in the world. 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.079 I was very aware of suffering. 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:49.759 And um I I remember writing at 10 years old that I wanted to end suffering in the world. 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:55.279 And so it was um, and I was very um tuned into people with wisdom. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:02.879 You know, that was when I think about who were at like celebrities, I was interested in at a very young age. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:14.240 I was interested in people who um had wisdom and were um uh interested in positive change in the world. 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:25.439 So that was something that I was very aware of, like both feeling the suffering and also seeing that there were people who were actively doing something about it. 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:28.000 Uh you know, now I have more words for it. 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.879 I I don't think I had the awareness to frame it the way I am now. 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:37.279 So this is more my older self looking back at my younger self. 00:07:38.879 --> 00:08:02.160 And um, I feel like this current working in pre- and perinatal somatics, working with families, is such a natural um evolution from who I am essentially as um as a personality and as an individual in the world. 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:15.199 And then also all of my experiences of um just all the things that I've done, uh, community building, um healing work. 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:22.720 And I just remember in my 20s having a sense that I wanted to help children. 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:35.840 And um and I think it's very remarkable how we have these intentions that come at a very young age and we don't actually understand them. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:54.799 We feel impulses, we have um intentions, and we don't really understand them until we get older and wiser and start really um feeling the direction of our lives and our interests, and those interests develop and mature. 00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:02.480 And so I just am very satisfied with where I am today in my work. 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:12.720 Um, I feel like it combines all of who I am, my gifts, my attributes, and all of my learning and experience. 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.120 Yes, I would agree. 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:24.080 I mean, also just people know like you are a Brima person, which has a bodywork modality. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.279 I know that really informs your worldview. 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:39.440 And um I really enjoy your body-centered practices that you've brought to the hearth, and that they're very authentic and they come from you so deeply from within. 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:58.000 And then, you know, discovering the prepared needle somatics, you know, studying with Myrna Martin the way I did also, and then moving on to study with Ray, and become a womb surround facilitator, just uh approved by the Castellino Corporation, which is a hard thing to do. 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.360 It's hard to be the approved facilitator. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.559 You have to sacrifice a lot um to do that. 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:10.559 And like you've you've really been on the co you stayed the course, as they say. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:12.399 You went the long mile. 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:25.360 Um yeah, and then you oh I always enjoyed watching your work with children, um, the play, so fun and so also deep. 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:31.600 Um, so you have I know you have a lot of skills, and now you've joined me in a lot of ways. 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:45.519 Like we did some, you know, presentations for the Castellino Corporation, and now we're um we are creating these advanced modules in the integrated prenatal and perinatal dynamics. 00:10:45.759 --> 00:11:08.480 And I really would like to talk about those with you so that people can get a handle on like really what the blueprint and also the the pre-perinatal somatics is is good for um in terms of resolving or integrating our our biggest challenges that can run so invisibly in our lives. 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:14.480 And like a lot of my podcasts are with guests who understand the early layers. 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:29.120 Um but we haven't yet really talked at in-depth with with um so people can understand more what are double binds and and why do we talk about them so much in pre-perinatal work. 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:35.759 So I'm wondering if you would start our conversation that way with what are they and why do we talk about them so much? 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:36.879 Yeah. 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:51.440 Well, what I think I'll start with is um a really um deep-seated knowing that I have gained from my Brima practice. 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:58.000 Um, Brima is a practice of being present in the body and in our lives. 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:08.399 And in Brima, there is uh one of the principles is no judgment. 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:22.639 So the direction is to create a non-judgmental atmosphere where for for yourself relating to yourself, but also with another person. 00:12:23.600 --> 00:13:20.480 And so what I want to begin with um as I speak about double binds is actually my complete trust that this person is coming to me with challenges, but that there is uh inherent health and wisdom that the fact that this person has come to see me is that health is wanting to emerge, it's wanting to be known, and this challenge that somebody has come to me with, or if I'm with a family member or a friend that um I'm supporting somebody uh non-professionally, I know that there is something healthy, something vital, something wise that wants to emerge. 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:32.320 And so when I look at the bind, I see I'm I'm also seeing the health wanting to emerge. 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.000 So that's what I want to begin with. 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:46.879 Well I have two responses to that, and you know one of them is how do you know health is emerging? 00:13:48.080 --> 00:14:15.919 But also just to define

the bind, for people out there listening, like Ray Castellino, I think Ray Castellino made a lot of wonderful contributions to the field of understanding what you know what has been called per psychology, and then his insistence on this is not psychology, this is a somatic uh space, an implicit memory, somatic, it has to be from the body, not just the psyche. 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.399 So he developed you know lots of tools that we learn in long-term training. 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:32.320 I mean, those are very comprehensive, and it takes time to really integrate and learn all those, you know, these 10 years to become proficient at them. 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:42.320 And um and then what he added these whoops around, which is a wonderful technique and probably one of the best for helping integrate early layers. 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:54.159 And then he really, with his partnership with Anachitti, developed the blueprint more and um and he added up from very early the double bind practice. 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:04.879 And double binds are a place in our system where we feel like we no way out, there's no no good avenue to proceed. 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.120 And I often call it a stuck place. 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.159 But it's more than just stuckness. 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:21.200 There can be a lot of feeling to it, a lot of life, death, uh type of feeling or urgency, or a big sense of betrayal or horror connected to our experience. 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:37.039 And the nervous system will have several different responses to it, and then it gets repeated and repeated and repeated until somebody like you or me or someone who understands binds can be with them. 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:49.519 And then we have protocols that we've learned and that we um that we we apply to the work, which we're going to teach our students um in the advanced modules. 00:15:49.759 --> 00:16:01.600 There's three of them and learning how to recognize them, learning what skills they are, learning protocols, and then understanding their application to the modern birth um setting. 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:09.759 So these are the things that we teach in the on our integrated prenatal and perinatal dynamics program. 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:17.600 And I'm so honored that you get a chance, that you are with me and not get a chance, not that you've made a commitment with me. 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.320 Because it does take commitment. 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:26.960 You it's not about suddenly having a full house of people who want to learn. 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.240 We just do it because we love it. 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:40.320 And we often make jokes about it, like this is how we party, this is our good, our good space, this is what we dig in and feel good about in our work. 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:49.360 And so I do remember in our first module that we've written together, you taught you say to participants, look for health emerging. 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.279

So I'm wondering if you could describe that for our listeners. 00:16:55.440 --> 00:17:00.240 Well, um, thank you for all that you said about binds. 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:10.960 So I really think that the understanding of double binds and how to work with them is what is really valuable about our work. 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:21.920 And I actually wish that every teacher and therapist and um medical professional knew about double binds and how to work with it. 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.240 So I appreciate all that you said. 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:47.440 And um a lot of how we track our sessions is by when we're sitting with an individual or we're sitting with a group or sitting with a family, is that I'm tracking them both by what is said when the people arrive about their intentions and their challenges. 00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:56.960 And then I'm also feel feeling um what's happening somatically, what's happening energetically. 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:12.000 So I'm tracking people by, you know, skin changes, um, facial expressions, postures, movements, but then also what do I feel in the energy field? 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:17.440 And we are all electrical beings and we resonate with each other. 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:25.759 And when we're in a room with each other, um, we can feel what's happening with another person or with the group. 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:35.359 So one answer to um health emerging is there's a felt sense of it that I have. 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:50.799 It feels like an opening, it feels like a settling, it feels like um a lifting of tension because sitting in double bind tension fields, it's very tense. 00:18:50.960 --> 00:19:19.359 You're in like a tension with the person or with the family, and then all of a sudden there's an easing up, and like I can see my hands that are making this opening gesture because that's how it feels like all of a sudden an opening happens, and then when I feel that opening, I'm listening to what is being said, and often there's insight that comes from the person. 00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:38.079 I'm really wanting the opening and the insight to come from the client or in the family field because that's part of the protocol for double binds, is that I'm not coming in to rescue someone. 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:41.359 And this is actually a principle of Brema, too. 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.799 I'm not trying to fix somebody, I'm not trying to rescue somebody. 00:19:44.960 --> 00:20:00.160 I love that about our work that I'm holding space for somebody to have an insight about their challenges and to integrate their challenges, but then to also feel that opening, that settling. 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:17.119 And a lot of times there'll be this big exhale that comes, and it could even happen in the group that there's a big exhale, and so those are the signs that health is emerging. 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:35.119 And um I I feel like there's we're kind of swimming in this murky water, and then all of a sudden, there's this little um I always think of it kind of like um diving into an underwater cave that opens up into light. 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:44.720 That's how I picture it in myself, and so um and what the health is that emerges, it depends on the person's intention. 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:49.359 Because again, I'm not trying to figure out how to fix somebody. 00:20:49.680 --> 00:21:04.960 I'm just listening, I'm listening to their intentions, I'm listening to what is unfolding, and then responding to that, and then reflecting to them when I feel that opening, I'll say, I can suddenly feel a settling. 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:06.400 Can you feel that? 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:19.680 And then usually it then leads into um one thing leads into another, and then something opens for the person. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:35.920 And the longer they've been working with me, or in this kind of work, not maybe specifically me, the more they have the capacity to actually um go with to open up into whatever is emerging. 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:39.359 That's excellent. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:47.680 Like I feel like really helping people understand the tension feel like we'll be in sessions. 00:21:47.759 --> 00:22:03.039 You know, people will come because they feel stuck, or they feel frustrated, or they feel like um they want their life to go in a different way, or often people come to preparing somatics because it's They've tried other things and nothing has helped. 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.920 And or you know, they get a sense that they have these implicit memories. 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.599 And it's you can't access it through talking about it. 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.960 You have to access it through the memory in the body. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.119 So, like that's what we studied exquisitely for so many years. 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:21.440 I mean, I'm 30 years into it now. 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:31.519 And just really understanding these early layers and how even the bind itself, like this tension field, usually it's two or more things. 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:36.559 You know, if I do this, if I go this way, it will hurt, or if I go that way, it will hurt. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:37.920 There's no good way. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:45.519 There is a tension field that emerges, and and you can feel it as practitioner, it feels to me very tight. 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.960 I'm very stuck, breath is shallow. 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:58.400 Um, and so really helping people get that okay, the bind usually started before they got there as a human, before they were conceived. 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:09.119 Um, if this chronic place, that then it repeats until you know it gets pretty big until you know we can really understand this, it really needs to be addressed. 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:20.240 And so I just feel like when I'm working with the tension field, um, you know, they're naming that okay, this is happening now. 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:21.119 I feel

it. 00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:22.000 Do you feel it? 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:33.200 I'm wondering how is it for you, I mean, do you feel the field like I do that tension place, the two poles creating this um place what feels unmovable? 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.400 Yeah. 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:46.640 Um, as I'm listening to you, um, I really relate to the tension that I really felt. 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:51.680 You know, before I did this work, I really felt that tension. 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.640 And when we start this work, we don't really have words for it. 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:15.359 It just um people come to me because, as you know, my child is misbehaving, or my child can't, my infant can't settle, or I feel anxious, or I feel like I can't progress in my life or in relationships. 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:28.240 So there's often some kind of um challenge that people are perceiving in behavior of children, in how I feel. 00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:40.000 And so usually what happens is there's this idea that there's something wrong with me, there's something wrong with my child, there's something here that needs to be fixed. 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:55.440 And um, just as you're saying, sometimes double binds are they're called ancestral double binds, that these are really something that came from ancestral influences from even before we were born. 00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:11.680 And so it's just this big blob of tension and confusion and stuckness and hopelessness that can just feel like this big impenetrable blob. 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:38.480 And um when I sit with somebody for the first time, I may not know the specifics, but I can feel that there's like there are these layers that come all the way from the ancestors to the present through their conception, gestation, birth, and then the life that unfolds from there. 00:25:40.240 --> 00:26:11.119 And I can feel it in the tension in my body, I can um feel that there's this blob, and then I help people bit by bit to understand that there are challenges that we have in the present, but then there is also just this energy and tension and confusion and all those feelings that come from all the way from the history. 00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:19.440 They kind of compress into this big blob, and I can feel it when I sit with them. 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:58.720 You know, that's one of the things that's so important about our training is we learn how to sit in attention field and be curious and explore rather than feeling like we have to run in and rescue or uh fix or um change this person's life, but to how to start to um decompress all of those layers and then start to pull out one layer, one thread at a time to help people understand all the layers. 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:12.720 And I I think that what's so important is that I'm sitting there with the eye that there is both health emerging here and there's also something really did happen. 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:19.039 Something really did happen to this person, something really did happen to their ancestors. 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:42.400 There's actually nothing inherently wrong with this person or this family, but they're just caught in these layers, and it's just the like a one foot in front of the other, just like one thread at a time, unwinding this blob of tension and all those different qualities of the bind. 00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:44.319 Right. 00:27:44.960 --> 00:28:03.920 Well, it's relieving to listen to you because I can just feel the blob, but I can also just feel the soothing sensations of someone being present with all these this anatomy of the double bind. 00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:18.319 And in our training, I usually teach like the very first module about the ancestral, you know, the idea that there's something from the ancestors that may come into the present and we can differentiate. 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.200 That was about them, that's them, and this is me. 00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.640 And that's sort of what I call double bind light, you know, just simple differentiation. 00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:41.519 And it it is true, like when we get caught up as practitioner in the bind, we will speed up and we will feel like we have to fix it or argue with it or make it somehow different when that's just not how we do it. 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:55.599 Um so learning how to sit and then be able to really start to disentangle, and you have to go at the pace that the person can go who's sitting in front of you. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:02.720 It's all of Castellino's work, which I really love so much about Ray, is that he teaches from the inside out. 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:18.319 And that is what we we have to do also, and to help people understand the anatomy of these binds, whether it's two competing, sort of very high activations. 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:35.200 Um, it can be sympathetic arousal or parasympathetic shutdown, they're both there, foot on the gas, foot on the brake, however you want to call it, and somatic experiencing speak, we called it global high intense activation or GIA. 00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:55.200 And there are all these symptoms and that come with the bind, but spinning and looping, and you know, being highly activated and then shut down in the course of periods of short periods of time and feeling, you know, like you can't stay with yourself, you jump out of yourself. 00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:06.559 And as practitioner, we're able to sit there and name all these things, okay, and slow the pace, keeping in connection with the person, allowing there to be some experiences. 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:16.319 Um, and I know that uh Ray gave us protocols and working with groups and working one-on-one. 00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:26.319 So I don't know if you want to just touch on them because I know we're going to be teaching them in our advanced modules, but I wouldn't mind hearing if you could summarize. 00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:30.400 What would you want to say to people

listening? 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:32.720 Um if you could. 00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:34.000 Yeah. 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:40.240 Um, I really appreciated all the qualities of the bind that you were describing. 00:30:40.960 --> 00:31:04.240 And one of the things I really teach my groups, my clients, um, I work on it myself, is that um the bind layers, you know, when we're we have our own bind layers, when we're in relationship with somebody else, we're feeling their bind layers. 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:17.599 When we're in a group, like let's say you're a teacher, you know, there are all the bind layers in the group that are all showing up in the group field. 00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:23.920 Again, we're electrical energetic beings and we vibrate with each other. 00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:47.200 And so um, as a teacher, as a facilitator, as um someone working with somebody therapeutically, we want to create a coherent, um, balanced um vibrational field to which the group or the individual can um resonate with. 00:31:48.319 --> 00:32:01.680 And um so part of that for myself um as the leader, um a really important tool is naming. 00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:03.839 You you mentioned that. 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:35.039 And so part of the blob, part of that that undifferentiated, like knotted up blob, is that there's just this un this felt but unnamed, just layers and layers of tension and suffering and um just different things that happened and unresolved traumatic events um ancestrally and in our own life. 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:47.279 So as we start to slowly over time, and what will be named depends on the particular intention for that day. 00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:53.440 So there's you know, we just take one little bite-sized piece at a time. 00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:27.680 And so I just, you know, as I'm feeling the tension field, as I'm listening to what the person is saying, I will reflect and name what I'm perceiving, what I'm curious about, and then I help the person also start to name um just the layers, you know, the the per and we really want to start to do this for children. 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:48.559 I mean, children can be taught to do this at a very young age, and to just name just the different layers of the historical experience, the different layers of a personal experience, or just um what am I experiencing right now? 00:33:48.720 --> 00:34:50.480 Some sessions were not even into any kind of content, but we're just following um somatically tension and um naming what is being experienced, what is being felt, and then having me there or having a group there to really receive that storytelling so that the person can understand what happened to them individually and ancestrally and culturally, and then also to be able to through storytelling what we call integrate it or digest it, and then something starts to again the health emerging, what we talked about, once somebody starts to feel the support of the of the therapist or the group, then suddenly something new will start to again. 00:34:50.559 --> 00:35:03.199 I'm I have these this gesture that of this opening hands, like in that space, in that meeting of that story, something new starts to emerge. 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:14.639 And even, you know, in an ancestral story, I know for myself, I was first identified more with the pain of the story. 00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:31.840 But then as the health starts to open, I just feel you know, I'm just right now something came to mind, an experience I had, where suddenly I felt so much love and appreciation um for my ancestors and their capacities. 00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:50.639 And um, and so that's the possibility as we just um uh unwind these little threads that then more and more joy, ease, pleasure, happiness, um, even in challenging times, becomes available. 00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:53.679 Right. 00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.559 Good. 00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:02.320 Well, I I feel like um when I first learned about the binds, you know, there was one protocol. 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:06.159 Now there's several, which is nice to have. 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:10.800 You can have a toolbox when you're heading toward the bind. 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:13.920 The very first one is so important, the naming. 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:16.480 And somebody will say, What? 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:18.320 I have a what? 00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.800 And there's a name for it, which suddenly things begin to settle. 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:34.880 And then you know, Ray originally, when I first met him, he was teaching how to go from one side to the other of the two bot, the two poles that are holding this stuck place. 00:36:35.920 --> 00:37:05.039 And um, you know, John Chitty would say, you know, you get the pendulum swinging to relieve fixation, it's a fixed state that that is a very embedded, often it has, like I said, layers like you have described, ancestral, and then it could be something prenatal, something birth afterbirth, and then they begin to repeat as the pattern really wants to be integrated and giving it a sense of of agency itself, the pattern which will just repeat. 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:32.000 And so we're we're when we get usually it's the adult, but the family comes also, family gets stuck in binds, and like the work of the integrated prenatal and perinatal dynamics is really meant to go right to that the the birth sequence or the prenatal around conception, just working with that that and afterbirth also, like feeding challenges are especially bindy. 00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:53.360 Um but really helping identify those places right away so they don't fester um uh in the in the family, in the person, but really able to, as practitioners, really helping people find the middle way, like first it was the middle way that would arise. 00:37:53.920 --> 00:38:03.519 Now there's an array of health, I would say, um that can arise out of working with a bind state. 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:26.239 And we do have tools um

that have developed over time, and um just to name them like experiencing the two sides or exploring what's good about the two sides that can really lead to blueprint easily or getting underneath the tension field, which um I've found people can do. 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:32.559 They can drop into that the blueprint state that are they're underneath all of that. 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:43.199 And then our presence and inquiry is what really helps them uh helps them be curious, which is again is a blueprint state. 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:52.159 Noticing what happens to the tissue in the body, um, because that's the way through is the feeling state. 00:38:53.679 --> 00:39:11.280 So that's sort of the synopsis that you know we'll be teaching in our advanced modules, like how to be with all of that, and and really practicing because I don't know about you, Eileen, but every time I went for supervision with Ray, it was always how can I be more efficient and working with double binds? 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:14.320 It takes time to learn. 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:34.480 It takes it's best if you can practice in a cohort, because there can be group dynamics also that Ray taught, especially working with the small groups that was doing the benefit of working with another practitioner and helping yourself learn a team approach. 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.599 And um, Ray was really good at that. 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:43.679 And um I kind of feel like is there anything more you'd like to add for now? 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:50.639 Because I feel like we'll we can stop here and return to some of these themes in a future podcast. 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:56.159 So I'm wondering if you would like to just add any more about this subject. 00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:01.920 Yeah, there are two threads that come up for me um in just what you said. 00:40:02.719 --> 00:40:20.079 And um, the first one that um as I was listening to you talk about all the different ways that we um work with double binds, is that as I was saying before, one of the tools is naming. 00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:25.760 And you even mentioned just now many of the ways we name things. 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:40.960 And so part of part of unwinding that blob of tension and suffering and despair is that as practitioners, we learn pattern recognition. 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:50.320 We learn about all of the things that happen ancestrally and in birth and gestation and conception and afterbirth. 00:40:50.639 --> 00:41:04.480 So that not only are we naming layers, but there is a um an understanding of both optimal, healthier, like there's no there's no perfect. 00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:06.320 You know, perfect doesn't exist. 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.320 We talk about good enough. 00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:22.079 And so we understand both healthy processes and we understand what happens um that's interrupting or non-optimal, and it always depends on the individual. 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:32.800 So that part of that is what

the tools that we're holding and the understanding that we're holding to witness um what is arising. 00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:46.239 So to help name from our experience and understanding um of all the different parts of the sequence um from ancestral influences to the present. 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.000 Um, so um, and I could just go on forever about that. 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.960 So I'm gonna stop with that. 00:41:55.280 --> 00:42:02.320 But then the other part of Ray Castellino's protocol is adding resource, adding support. 00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:13.280 And so for me to be able to work with double binds with other people, I actually need to have resource myself. 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:22.159 You know, you mentioned that Marmot, and you're my that, you know, how we meet regularly and support each other. 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:26.159 And I have another group that I meet with. 00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:38.800 And I really think that having those layers of support for myself adds resource for the person or the family or the group that I'm working with. 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:57.039 So he was Ray was so brilliant at um just understanding that some layers are so big that one person working with one um another person or a group, they can't hold all those layers. 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:06.880 So resource is needed for the individual and the family, but also for the practitioner, facilitator, teacher. 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:29.679 And so um that is one of the things I appreciate about the understanding of integrating traumatic events that we have in pre- and perinatal somatics, is that I myself, as a practitioner, need to be held. 00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:40.639 And then that in turn adds resource and support for the family group or individual that we're working with. 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:48.559 And um, that's what I appreciate about our relationship so much is I just really feel that support. 00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:56.239 And um also for me, I have a very strong connection to essence, God. 00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.760 And I also think for me, that's an essential part. 00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:15.760 Of adding resource is that you know, I feel both my support people at my back, but then I feel essence or spirit or the divine also at my back. 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:23.119 And um so I just wanted to mention adding resource, adding support. 00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:37.199 Um, and that's what I teach families too is like how to discover what they need as support, what they need as resource to be able to create the space to walk through the bind. 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:39.840 Right. 00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:40.960 That's beautiful. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:42.800 Thank you for adding that, Eileen. 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:43.920 It's true. 00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:49.760 Um the the blueprint is what also always present. 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:55.599 And I once asked Anna Chitty, how do I help people feel their blueprint? 00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:57.519 And she said, You feel yours. 00:44:58.480 --> 00:44:59.679 That's enough. 00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:20.800 And really believing that you know we are these immense, amazing beings that come into form, and we you know our our essence is impacted, obscured by these things that sort of coalesce and gather around us as we come in, but also our early experiences without enough support. 00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:34.800 And so there are lots of ways that we can start to feel wiggle room in the bind with enough support, and then the blueprint begins to move, things begin to move. 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:52.719 And certainly feeling enough support and also just dropping into our own blueprint, divine, our divinity, our consciousness, our whatever it is that um you are you want to call it, but it's it's there in all of us all the time. 00:45:53.119 --> 00:45:54.719 Yeah, yeah. 00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:00.960 I really like how you describe that, and even that hand gesture of that's exactly what we're doing. 00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:18.480 It's like where there's the stuck blob that we think is real, and then uh what we're creating is space so that the person and us with the person or the group can also feel that wiggling start to happen. 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:26.800 And then the health emerging takes over and ironic water clears itself, is what Randolph Stone said. 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:31.119 And that way the health is always there. 00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:36.559 And when John was sick, John Chitty he said, Please see me in my health. 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:44.400 And when people ask me what should I do, I said let's just see the person in their health and know that it's always there. 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:49.920 And I like how you started our conversation with well, people come to see me, that's the health. 00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:55.840 Health is there and the health is emerging, and that's our job is to help that. 00:46:56.000 --> 00:47:07.760 But once you begin to feel the the movement begin, then the health can often take take take the process and it becomes less refined. 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:20.400 But if there are lots of stack, what Ray would call it a stack, but the layers of challenge, it can take the presence of another person or a group, especially. 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:26.000 Group work is very potent when working with these states. 00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:34.800 Um they can really move all these layers, and it doesn't take a lot then. 00:47:34.960 --> 00:47:51.199 Um so that's why the womb surround is such an effective tool for working with these um binds that come so early in our in our uh history, in our bodies, in our cells, and in our lineage and in our field. 00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:53.119 Yeah. 00:47:53.599 --> 00:47:56.559 Well, thank you for talking with me today, Eileen. 00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:01.840 And I wonder if you might want to say, you know, what makes your life more beautiful? 00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:07.440 Hmm, what makes my life more beautiful? 00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:28.000 Um, there's so many beautiful things, but right now what I I'm even feeling is my connection with my body and um and just the pleasure I feel in just being in a body. 00:48:28.159 --> 00:48:29.280 I can feel it right now. 00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:34.400 There's something warm and connected that I'm feeling just from this conversation. 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:47.119 And so I I'm just really enjoying that I can feel it, and particularly as somebody who um, you know, I spend a lot of my life kind of disconnected and dissociated. 00:48:47.760 --> 00:49:04.639 And so I what makes my life so beautiful right now is that I can feel the pleasure of just being here, and even when things are hard, sometimes I just feel the pleasure of being here, even in those hard things. 00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:11.119 And um so I think that there are many things, but I'll just share that right now. 00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:22.000 Well, it's certainly been a pleasure to talk with you today, and we'll be back more to talk about the bind to help people really understand. 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.800 I think this is a good first little dip. 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:25.440 Yeah. 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:26.320 So thank you for that. 00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:27.440 Thank you so much. 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.559 Thank you. 00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:33.519 You've been listening to a more beautiful life podcast. 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:39.039 To support our show, please go to Patreon forward slash a more beautiful life.