NBA Second Apron: Why the Knicks Could Be the Next Team Broken Up의 전체 녹취록

Lakers, right? And the Knicks, and every other team is gonna struggle. Are you pro or con? Is that a pro or a con? Steve: be in professional sports wanting to allow a team to spend as much as they want, and there's a reason. [00:06:00] If you think about the Utah, I'm using Utah Jazz. That's a small market. Jose: Yeah. Perfect Steve: Their tickets are probably cheaper, and they're not making the money that the Lakers would. Also, their local television contract, Jose: Right Steve: Lakers have their own network. Am I correct? The Knicks ha- the Knicks have their own network. Jose: I don't know Steve: money off of that, where in those markets like Utah, they're not. So you gotta equalize it in some way. And every player in the NBA, unlike baseball, a guy's good, he's getting over 30 million easily on his next contract. In baseball, it's not always that way, and they're not getting paid ex- exorbitantly as they do in in, in basketball. So there's a lot of things you gotta take into account, and when you realize you understand Jose: Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy, and the right landing spot is probably [00:07:00] somewhere between what the NBA has now and what what MLB has, although it's worked pretty well for MLB. Some people might disagree 'cause they hate to see what, the Dodgers are going for the three-peat right now. But it, it, there's some, the Major League Baseball is as popular now as it's ever been, so there's something to be said for that. I was at a game in Utah not too long ago maybe a couple years ago now. And it, yeah, I can say I had pretty good seats at a pretty good price. And I've said it before here, great environment and great fans. It was a random Thursday, I think, against a, a not good Orlando Magic game team rather, and I enjoyed my time in Utah, so tip of the hat to the Jazz Steve: give you a quick thing. Think about this. The Lakers play tonight and Utah plays tonight. Jose: Okay. Steve: people do you think are watching the Laker game, and how Jose: Yeah. Steve: are watching the Utah game? Jose: Yeah Steve: That's why the money is a problem because if the Lakers are smart enough, the [00:08:00] Knicks have their own station, MSG. So Dolan's making the money on, on, on those games where Utah probably doesn't have their own. Or Charlotte, and there's not as many fans that are Charlotte Hornet fans compared to, Jose: yeah. Steve: fans Jose: Yeah. Yep, agreed. A-a-and yeah the Lakers do own their broadcasting rights. Yeah. Charter Communications and the Lakers jointly own. So yeah, you're you're spot on. Let's talk about Jalen Duren. This has been bubbling for a while. We've talked about it. He originally balked at five years, 200 million from the Pistons. Pistons didn't blink when Duren missed media day at the start of preseason. Finally, Duren just said, "Okay, I'll, I'll take your 200 million." So the two are re- the two are reunited, but you called it out. There's gotta be some lingering effects here,

right? Steve: there's gotta be, and players usually, they don't fight over money. [00:09:00] But he's gotta be a little bit bitter because I'm sure his agents were telling him, "You're getting max money," he didn't get it, and he's probably not gonna be happy about things. And if things go south in any way with the Pistons not playing well, anything, he's gonna want out. And he's close with Cade Cunningham, but... In fact, the only thing he did team, as a team group, was he went to the Cade Cunningham's birthday party. But otherwise, he stayed away from them all. And there's gotta be lingering feelings here. And I'm sure he's not happy with Trayden Lang- Trajan Langston Langdon, the the GM or the president of the organization because he's the one that did the negotiating. In fact, the word is that Tom Gores, the owner, got involved in it and assured Durrant of certain things, gave his word, and that was what pushed it across. There, there's a lot of bitterness here. And I don't know if it gets healed right away or what, what happens Jose: Yeah. And it's just one of those [00:10:00] things, we talk a lot about, the right fit and, just being able to be in the right environment. It matters, right? Winning is a lot of things, right? And one of-- part of it is having to be in the right environment with the right coach, right teammates. And in the professional game, it's about you know, respect , Steve: respect, Jose: Jalen Duren feels disrespected, but right, but it's impactful. Steve: I agree. I Jose: And, if Jalen Duren feels disrespected is, Steve: I, Jose: is he not gonna give his full effort? Steve: I agree. I agree, but the respecting i- it's not respect. Money. Jose: But yeah Steve: respect and that's a little silly Jose: Yeah. Yep, and $200 million, man, please respect me that way. Let's move on to the interesting. You rattled off a whole bunch of them. Let's talk about as many as we can get through. First off the Toronto Raptors. They've got a re- a reunion with Kawhi Leonard. He's coming off his greatest [00:11:00] season at, at, at an old age, right? If... We talked about the NBA being a young man's game. Kawhi had his best season at a relatively old NBA age. So does he make the Raptors a contender? Steve: Nobody's denying how talented he is. Nobody's denying that. The thing they're denying or wondering is how many games does he play? And that's the whole thing. But if you look at the Raptors, they do have a couple of decent players. RJ Barrett's nice. Immanuel Quickley has not hit his pri- he should've... I thought he'd be a better player. He's not. J- Jakob Poeltl was... In fact they couldn't give him away to Toronto. They didn't want him 'cause he's got... He's tied in for a couple years at good money. But he's supposedly healthy, and if he... it... There's a lot at... but even when you take what they have, they're not... I don't see them as a, a first echelon team in the East. I see them as a playoff team, but like a six seed type team. And I think that's the extent of what you're [00:12:00] going to see with that team. Scottie Barnes, I know their coach called him the future of the game or something along that line, the face of the league in a couple years. No. Scottie Barnes is not a good enough shooter to be the face of the league. He does a lot of good things on the court, but he's just not enough g- a good enough shooter to become the face of the league. So there's... It's just not quite... They're good, but they're not great, is Jose: Yeah. Steve: way to put it Jose: I think the absolute undeniably best thing, and you wrote about it, for Kawhi is just to get the season started so we, he, in his mind's eye, we can get past this Clipper thing. But it, Toronto's gonna play in LA in the Intuit Dome at some point. And I'll tell you something, Clipper fans are ready today for that visit Steve: It's bothersome. It- when he's been asked about it, he's been aloof about it, but it's bothersome because he had a hand in this mess, and he's walking away g- getting [00:13:00] re-signed for a ridiculous amount of money. And, it, it's bothers him to a fan that, Jose: Yeah. Steve: get away with that Jose: Yeah. That is what's bubbling up in every Clipper fan's body right now, and it's going to be wild when Toronto visits. That one is gonna definitely be circled on my calendar. Next interesting topic you talked about a college coach. We've got a new one in Dallas. You called out some that have been successful, Larry Brown Brad Stevens, Billy Donovan but there have been some failures too. What do you think of Dusty May's chances with the Mavs? Steve: I think three out of about nine or 10 coaches finished. Those three coaches were the only three that had over 500 records. And if you analyze it deeper, Brown is the only one that won a championship. Stevens didn't, nor, the, none of the three, neither did Billy Donovan. He won it on a college level, Donovan but he never won it in the NBA. So the point being that most of these coaches failed. Jose: Yeah. Steve: [00:14:00] And Dusty May is in an interesting point and what's very important here, I don't know if people realize, Ky- Kyrie Irving is well-respected by players. If Kyrie is not happy, Dusty's got a problem. Kyrie's been known not to always be happy. But so he's gotta come in and he's gotta sell his program on these people. But he's also... there's a lot of interesting things going on. an interesting swing the team took. like to play the odds here and I like to think if three out of 10 or three out of nine, whatever it was, were successful, that means, we're taking a risk here. And it's interesting and they also-- Dallas fired who got them to the finals two years ago. Went on, so it's a whole bunch of things going on here that, that are very interesting and I wouldn't wanna be Dusty May. It's a tough situation Jose: Yeah. I think it comes back to expectations too. You called that out before what

the fans expect of you. I wonder [00:15:00] what Maverick fans expect. If I'm a Maverick fan, yeah, I want them to be a little bit better. I'm not looking at a long playoff run. I don't even need them to be, winning 75% of their games. I just need them to be better. That's a win, isn't it? Steve: You're forgetting they, they have somebody who might be one of the top five players in the league in a couple years, and he's going to just get better, and that's Cooper Flagg. You got something to build off of. Yeah I'll tell you what and I'm no genius, but I'll say this. If Dusty May's smart, he better become close with Cooper Flagg, 'cause if he loses Cooper Flagg, there goes the... And he's, he's history Jose: No doubt. No doubt. They're coming off a 26 and 56 season, so in that sense, things are easy, set up for Dusty May 'cause you Steve: don't forget, Derrick Lively's gonna be playing. He's still hurting right now, but he will be back. He was out most of last year, and they got this little guard who might be the most talented player in the league, Kyrie Irving, Jose: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah[00:16:00] Steve: back. He was out last year. So just with that, what are they, high 30s? You're getting close to playoffs Jose: And that gets you to expectations, right? So that that's where it gets tricky. But yeah, we'll see how things play out. I think it's gonna be very interesting in, in, in Dallas and very interesting in Washington. There's my segue. Are Anthony Davis and Ice Tray together winners? Do they make the Wizards winners? What do you think? Steve: They got some other players. They got Khris Middleton who also is an old-timer, but I would think he's probably gonna be playing 20 minutes a night. He's worn down. But... And they've got some good young players. Alex Sarr is a nice player. Johnson's a good player. They've got a bundle. Al Co- Quality is a good... They've got some good young talent. Not great young talent, but good young talent to go with it. they... And w- we can't forget about A- Stop Ayton, DeAndre Ayton. They've got him also. So and that's probably done for [00:17:00] Anthony Davis 'cause he doesn't wanna be a center. they've got some pieces. It's difficult because Trae Young is not a defender. But i- it's an interesting situation, and I kinda think they, they could be a playoffs, play-in team Jose: Okay Steve: what they have. Alex Sarr's gonna get better and he can play. And he's gonna surprise people. Now you got three, three legitimate bigs. W- if you wanna say Ayton's a legit, but you got Ayton, Davis, and Sarr. So y- you got something cooking there. And then you got Trae Young who, can score. So you got something. And, I don't know you're not winning a title, but Jose: You're right Steve: better for the Washington fans because they might Jose: Yeah Steve: close to the play- getting into the playoffs Jose: Yeah, and they're excited about AJ Dobbins too. So that, Steve: yes. Jose: Which Steve: gonna Jose: i-

is interesting. Y- you, you think so? I haven't seen enough of his game to Steve: I watched him in the Summer League and a couple things, and I just, I think he can play. I think the... him and [00:18:00] the other three, Wilson and Peterson, the first four guys, and Boozer, who were taken, are all going to be good players. And I don't think, nobody missed on those guys. And he's one of them, and I think he's obviously well earning the first pick in the draft, 'cause Jose: nice. Steve: good Jose: I'm excited to watch, and let's see if things turn around in Washington. Let's shift into the West. And we talked a little bit about this before we started recording. Arguably the best player in the association is on a team that's going backwards. All right. Tell us a little bit about Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets' season. Steve: I believe Jokic is now 31, so he's probably in his peak and, and so on. The Nuggets are interesting because I guess Al- Gordon played about, what, 40 games, 45 games? He's hurt all the time. Murray's always hurt or is sitting out back to back and all the other stuff. They're a year older. If you [00:19:00] expect good health, you're kinda being naive. the big problem, the big mistake they made was two- couple of years ago when they gave was it Christian Braun that contract because then they lost Payton Watson because they didn't wanna go too high, in the Jose: Yeah Steve: They obviously blew it and nobody wanted to trade for Braun. So they're in an interesting point. I kinda see it as they get older, it's a regression. They will, continue to... They might be the fifth seed next this year, but, or fourth seed, whatever. But, it's just n- it's gonna be a slow decline. Jokic can always keep you above water, and on any night he can light you up and beat you. But it just, I, I-- unless these guys all play 75, 80 games, it's gonna be interesting. And don't forget, and I'm not wishing it on him 'cause I think he's great, but Jokic has been healthy for much of his career, Jose: Sure Steve: stays Jose: Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go off script here [00:20:00] a little bit, which I know y- you're good with 'cause you've not write about this, but we've talked about it, right? And I gotta ask you and I think I know the answer, but I'll ask it anyway. You said some nice things about the Nuggets in that, right? Jokic can carry them, can keep them above water. Y- they're still a, decent team. Now we take a look at in Los Angeles, you got Luka Dončić. Same kind of player as Jokic, obviously shorter, right? But, a, a player that can do everything except defend. But I haven't heard you say anything as complimentary about Luka Dončić and the Lakers as you've said about Nikola Jokic and the Nuggets. Why? Steve: I think Luka Dončić is great for the NBA. He's a great player offensively. I also think, and this is only me talking, that the NBA is changing. The NBA wants, or been shown in some, some analytics that players are most productive in their first t- up to about 26 or seven. That's their best years they'll [00:21:00] have. Now, the NBA, a lot of teams are going out and giving 31-year-olds, Kawhi Leonard's 35, giving them a lot of money And they're not get- they're getting back 60 games. So I think they're wasting money. the, Kaw- Kawhi's good, but you never know when he's gonna play. And I think the future is young, good legs, can go every night, can play, and more importantly, can defend. And I don't, I think Luka fits into the old time team. Now, he's gonna be entertaining. I'm not saying he's terrible. No, he's not. He's going to be entertaining, but if you want to win as a franchise, a definite formula that needs to be taken. And if you're going to pay, and think about this, I'm guessing, but I think the Lakers are paying about 130, 140 million for Kessler, Luka, and [00:22:00] Reeves, maybe more. the tax is somewhere around 210, that's leaving you 50 or 60 million 11 guys. It's kinda hard, and you're going to have a difficult time fitting a team in around that. So unless you wanna pay a lot of money in a tax. So that's my thought. And now Luka, I don't know exactly, but he's not playing a full season. Every year he's getting hurt more and more. He's getting older. That's why I believe that young teams, young legs are what the league should be moving towards. And if you're a GM and you're... Here, Karl-Anthony Towns we just said will be a free agent Are you gonna go out and sign him for 65, 70 million? You're nuts. You're absolutely crazy. He's 31. He's going ... it's just natural. And he's looking for, the last big contract. But the point being, [00:23:00] that's what I'm trying to say. You want guys that are gonna give you 75 to 80 games a year, and that's what, and do it playing well Jose: Yeah. Yeah, like I said, I kinda expected the answer and then and you hit it off the park. I get it. I don't disagree. And incidentally, yes Lakers top three, I'm rounding down just a bit, 30 million for one, 40 million for another, 50 million for the other, that's 120 million. So you can do the math. All right, that's the buzzer. It went off. We gotta talk about at least one of the next two because there's a couple of topics still on the table. The Magic enter a make or break season, and the Blazers' makeup I think is super odd. Can they win in the West? One's East, one's West. I'm West. We're gonna go with the West. Tell me about the Blazers. I am baffled. This is a team that was trending in the right direction had a coach I liked in Chauncey Billups who's gone because of reasons we shouldn't speak of. But he's not there anymore. Now they've got an odd [00:24:00] ownership. They've got a ton of guards. They got Ja Morant. Ugh. What's going on in Portland? Steve: first of all, did you just use the word shant? Jose: Shant. Shant, I did. Yeah Steve: I haven't heard that since about sixth grade in, Jose: Thank you. Steve: when we were doing grammar. Jose: You're welcome

Steve: But which just shocked me. I didn't think you had it in you. But, and you're younger, so I don't think they even taught you that word. I've never heard, I haven't heard that word in so long. But What's really interesting is these teams go into these rebuilds, Washington and them, then all of a sudden they get impatient, and they go out and get the old-timers and thinking that'll push it forward. Let's look at it. You got Ja Morant. Ja Morant is an exciting player, but his game is going to the basket. Now, Ja Morant is probably, what, 6'2" and about... not heavy, not thick or anything. He's taken a beating over the years, and he's missed a lot of games. I-yi-- he's a year older. You're gonna bet that [00:25:00] he's gonna be healthy all the time? I hope so, but it's a gamble. Then you took Damian Lillard. He's a Portland guy. He played... he belongs there. But he's coming off an Achilles tear. How-- and he's making a lot of money, and he's 35 or 36. What are you expecting? Is he gonna go out and get you 25 a night? If he does, that'd be great. A-and I'm sure he's gonna have some great games. But y-you're really taking a risk here, and this is while you have a couple good guards that are already there, Scoot Henderson and Holiday, who's a great veteran and Di-- Sharp who got hurt. And he's, he'll be out for a couple weeks. But you got five of them, and they're all healthy. What are you gonna do? And, and then what's last piece, Lillard's never been known as a defender. Ja certainly isn't. They're gonna start them together? So I don't quite understand. They were on the right track. And then you forgot your best player, Deni Avdija. What are you gonna do [00:26:00] there? Is he still gonna be your best player? Is he gonna get the ball to play? And they've got some pieces. Donovan Clingan can play. So it's just it's weird. It's a weird situation that all of a sudden, "Let's speed this up." And you're taking guys that, I don't know if a lot of p- a lot of teams would want Ja Morant at this point. And that's not even talking about the stuff he does off the court. I'm talking about just on the court Jose: I don't know exactly when it happened, but somewhere after Steve started talking about the Blazers, I lost my video and audio. I don't know what happened. But after he got done, I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was clearly incredibly insightful and on topic to which Steve replied Steve: I agree. I agree Jose: Thank you, Steve. Then in a throwback to me inexplicably using the word shant in a sentence, I called out a few more old-timey words just to beat [00:27:00] the horse dead, to which Steve replied Steve: We shan't go on anymore either. We're done Oh, God. Oh, God. At our age, that's uncalled for. But go ahead. Jose: And there you have it. Unfortunate technical errors happened, but we got through it, and I appreciate you sticking around until the end. I will give Steve the final two words. We'll talk next week everyone. Thanks again Steve: Take care