A Radical, Counterintuitive Stress Reliever with Alua Arthur | Staff Picks의 전체 녹취록

--> 00:04:35.459 I like to show off. 72 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:37.339 It's like an SAT word, revivify. 73 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:39.279 I'm going to look that up afterwards. Thank you for 74 00:04:39.579 --> 00:04:41.120 accentuating what an asshole I am. 75 00:04:41.139 --> 00:04:45.860 You got it. I don't know how many of the 76 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:49.100 practices are conscious, but I will tell you some of 77 00:04:49.139 --> 00:04:52.839 the ones that sometimes I use, occasionally when trying to 78 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:56.000 make a decision in my life. I'll look at it 79 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:59.620 from my deathbed. With this decision that I have to 80 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:02.730 make right now, looking forward to my deathbed, will I 81 00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:04.230 be happy I did it? Will I be sad I 82 00:05:04.250 --> 00:05:06.930 didn't do it? Or will it matter at all? Most 83 00:05:06.949 --> 00:05:08.730 of them fall on the, it won't matter. Then it 84 00:05:08.930 --> 00:05:10.290 doesn't matter what I do. I can just figure out 85 00:05:10.310 --> 00:05:11.889 how I'm feeling that day and decide what direction I 86 00:05:11.930 --> 00:05:14.350 want to take it in. But if it has some 87 00:05:14.430 --> 00:05:18.540 other bigger implication, like moving or breaking up with somebody, 88 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.579 then looking at it through the perspective of my death, 89 00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:23.319 I can see a little bit more clearly who I 90 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:24.930 want to be. And like how I want to show 91 00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:27.490 up for my life. So that's one that I use. 92 00:05:27.550 --> 00:05:29.600 But I use it sometimes for silly things like trying 93 00:05:29.620 --> 00:05:30.779 to figure out whether or not I want to take 94 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.839 a nap. And the answer is always, yes, take a nap. 95 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:34.519 I'm always going to take a nap when I think 96 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:36.939 about it from the perspective of my death. Which I 97 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:39.639 think some people would think that you'd rather not nap 98 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:41.879 and just do the thing. Because there's that old adage, 99 00:05:41.899 --> 00:05:43.639 you can sleep when you're dead. But that's not sleep 100 00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:46.850 at all. It's dead. But I like rest. I want 101 00:05:46.889 --> 00:05:49.670 to feel rested in my life. And so when I'm 102 00:05:49.689 --> 00:05:52.069 looking at it from the perspective of my death, I'll 103 00:05:52.110 --> 00:05:55.060 take a nap. Another thing that people can do that 104 00:05:55.100 --> 00:05:58.079 sometimes I suggest is to look in the mirror in 105 00:05:58.100 --> 00:06:02.199 the eyeballs, in your own eyeballs, like deep, not searching 106 00:06:02.220 --> 00:06:05.319 your face, but looking in the eyeballs and repeating, I'm 107 00:06:05.339 --> 00:06:07.579 going to die a couple of times and see what 108 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:10.879 it brings up and be present with whatever it brings up. 109 00:06:11.910 --> 00:06:14.509 It could be scary, but I find that people often 110 00:06:14.550 --> 00:06:16.550 feel a little bit more peace. It's a little bit 111 00:06:16.589 --> 00:06:19.790 of a stress reliever to be aware of the fact 112 00:06:19.829 --> 00:06:21.410 that you're going to die consistently. 113 00:06:22.509 --> 00:06:24.670 Is it a stress reliever because it gets you out 114 00:06:24.689 --> 00:06:28.230 of worrying about demonstrably stupid shit or is it a 115 00:06:28.250 --> 00:06:32.310 stress reliever because you're taking this fear that's lurking in 116 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:35.069 the corners of your consciousness and dealing with it forthrightly 117 00:06:35.110 --> 00:06:35.430 or both? 118 00:06:36.230 --> 00:06:41.199 Both, both. I think in the immediate, it makes microscopic 119 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.240 the thing that you're worrying about. But in the longer picture, 120 00:06:45.860 --> 00:06:49.579 it gives greater perspective on life itself and how as 121 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:51.689 you look at the things that scare you, And then 122 00:06:51.730 --> 00:06:53.189 be with the things that scare you and then take 123 00:06:53.230 --> 00:06:54.769 the sting out of them tiny, tiny. 124 00:06:56.329 --> 00:06:58.750 I have more questions about these practices. And I've got 125 00:06:58.769 --> 00:06:59.879 a list of some of them I want to ask 126 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:02.069 you about. But just on this question of fear at 127 00:07:02.100 --> 00:07:06.500 the end, I have, you know, no experience compared to you. 128 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:08.420 But I did volunteer in a hospice for a few years. 129 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:08.860 Wow. 130 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:10.959 And made a lot of really good friends there and 131 00:07:11.319 --> 00:07:15.920 had some powerful experiences. And I, with one exception, didn't 132 00:07:16.100 --> 00:07:19.430 see a lot of fear. toward the end? Did I 133 00:07:19.750 --> 00:07:21.970 just get lucky? Or is there something about the human 134 00:07:22.550 --> 00:07:25.180 organism that, I don't know, some sort of equanimity kicks 135 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:26.000 in around the end? 136 00:07:26.920 --> 00:07:29.160 I think the latter. I think that folks at some 137 00:07:29.220 --> 00:07:33.959 point start to reconcile their lives with their deaths and say, 138 00:07:33.990 --> 00:07:37.290 all right, we're here. It's part of why as a 139 00:07:37.329 --> 00:07:39.009 death doula, it's really important for me to work with 140 00:07:39.050 --> 00:07:41.449 somebody who's already come into some recognition of the fact 141 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:43.870 that they're going to die. Because otherwise, I am just 142 00:07:43.910 --> 00:07:45.939 working with their fear. Not to say that there isn't 143 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.519 any when the reconciliation is being made, but it's a 144 00:07:49.579 -->

00:07:53.610 much more pliable, fertile ground to work with. 145 00:07:54.170 --> 00:07:56.670 As a death doula, you don't necessarily want to come 146 00:07:56.709 --> 00:07:59.569 in and work with somebody who's still, quote unquote, fighting. 147 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:00.339 Right. 148 00:08:01.420 --> 00:08:04.949 Unless they can also hold that they're dying. People often 149 00:08:04.970 --> 00:08:07.110 think that my work is about helping people get over 150 00:08:07.149 --> 00:08:09.850 their fear of death, but it's not. I mean, have 151 00:08:10.269 --> 00:08:12.310 you ever tried to have a friend break up with 152 00:08:12.329 --> 00:08:14.629 a bad boyfriend or something like that? It's so hard. 153 00:08:15.230 --> 00:08:16.959 People just have to be ready to step into it 154 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.629 when they're ready. So... I don't do that necessarily. I 155 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:22.910 can just sit with people and their fear and their discomfort. 156 00:08:23.370 --> 00:08:25.069 But I'm not trying to get them from point A 157 00:08:25.089 --> 00:08:27.230 to point B. I'm just being with them where they are. 158 00:08:27.670 --> 00:08:30.420 So when people say to you, I'm terrified, I'm terrified, 159 00:08:30.439 --> 00:08:33.480 I'm just freaking out, you don't have something you say 160 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:35.179 that's comforting. You just sit in the dark with them. 161 00:08:35.820 --> 00:08:38.200 Yeah. What are you scared of? You know, we start there. 162 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:39.679 What is the fear? What's the root of it? Help 163 00:08:39.700 --> 00:08:42.279 them tease it out. And often, like we were saying before, 164 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.000 when we're looking at it directly, it starts to numb it. 165 00:08:45.830 --> 00:08:47.950 It's like exposure therapy in a weird way. Like you 166 00:08:47.970 --> 00:08:50.210 just start slowly numbing it. You take the sting out 167 00:08:50.250 --> 00:08:52.929 of the scary thing. And oftentimes it's things that we 168 00:08:52.970 --> 00:08:55.850 can do something about. Like if one of the big 169 00:08:55.889 --> 00:08:58.789 fears is the process of the body, which is a 170 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:00.779 big one. What happens when we're dying? What does that 171 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:04.179 feel like? We can start making plans to make sure 172 00:09:04.220 --> 00:09:06.740 that your pain is well managed, that you can have 173 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:10.000 clues for thirst. We can talk about how thirst is 174 00:09:10.379 --> 00:09:12.559 actually supportive at the end of life because it acts 175 00:09:12.620 --> 00:09:15.940 as an analgesic. It will numb the pain. There's things 176 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:18.580 that we can discuss to take a little bit of 177 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:19.240 the fear away. 178 00:09:20.110 --> 00:09:24.110 Thirst acts as a pain reliever or getting your thirst quenched? 179 00:09:24.549 --> 00:09:25.230 Dehydration. 180 00:09:25.450

--> 00:09:26.590 So dehydration is good? 181 00:09:26.850 --> 00:09:29.049 At the end of life, yeah. It serves as an 182 00:09:29.149 --> 00:09:30.090 analgesic effect. 183 00:09:30.490 --> 00:09:30.870 Interesting. 184 00:09:30.990 --> 00:09:31.250 Yeah. 185 00:09:31.870 --> 00:09:35.230 Do you have any, having been around the end of 186 00:09:35.629 --> 00:09:38.759 so many lives, have you developed some sort of suspicion 187 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:40.460 about what's on the other side? 188 00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:45.799 No. I know I wish I did. What I notice 189 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.279 is how often it looks like peace on people's faces 190 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:54.409 as they're dying. Even if the mouth is open, because 191 00:09:54.450 --> 00:09:57.490 people do often die with their mouths open, it doesn't 192 00:09:57.529 --> 00:09:58.990 look scary. 193 00:09:59.940 --> 00:10:02.519 That's what I walked away with, oddly, was, you know, 194 00:10:02.539 --> 00:10:03.990 I haven't done it in a couple of years. This 195 00:10:04.029 --> 00:10:07.549 was pre-pandemic, but I walked away from my time in 196 00:10:07.590 --> 00:10:11.149 the hospice feeling much less scared. It's come back because 197 00:10:11.169 --> 00:10:13.990 I haven't been exposed recently, but it was not a 198 00:10:14.029 --> 00:10:17.259 scary place. And people weren't screaming in pain. Modern medicine 199 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.960 is quite powerful. And as we established, there's something about 200 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.299 the human organism that seems to ease into this transition. 201 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.519 But I remember quite powerfully feeling like it was a 202 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:27.899 relief to have that experience. 203 00:10:28.330 --> 00:10:29.529 Sounds like it's time for you to go back to 204 00:10:29.549 --> 00:10:30.009 the hospice. 205 00:10:30.029 --> 00:10:30.309 Yeah. 206 00:10:30.649 --> 00:10:36.210 And yes, absolutely. I find that people are more peaceful 207 00:10:37.009 --> 00:10:42.370 and they're ready on some level to die because likely, 208 00:10:42.549 --> 00:10:44.409 particularly in a hospice or so, it's coming at the 209 00:10:44.450 --> 00:10:46.779 end of a disease process. I was just tired of 210 00:10:46.789 --> 00:10:48.899 being sick. Yeah, that's true. I get the flu and 211 00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:51.860 after three days, I'm ready to be over it. Particularly 212 00:10:51.899 --> 00:10:54.740 when you are in a disease process that's likely going 213 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:57.549 to kill you. man, at some point you're just like, 214 00:10:57.610 --> 00:10:58.830 all right, enough already. 215 00:10:59.490 --> 00:11:01.509 My father used to have this joke about when you 216 00:11:01.529 --> 00:11:04.289 get the stomach flu that you switch back and forth 217 00:11:04.330 --> 00:11:07.169 between thinking you're going to die and fearing that you won't. 218 00:11:08.350 --> 00:11:11.480 Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's

good. 219 00:11:11.929 --> 00:11:14.440 So one of the other practices, if memory serves, that 220 00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:16.940 you recommend for people is to really get pretty granular 221 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:19.340 in thinking about how you want to die. 222 00:11:19.740 --> 00:11:21.159 I love that one. Why? 223 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:22.419 Why do you love that one? 224 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.450 Because it creates an ideal that can serve to create 225 00:11:28.490 --> 00:11:32.389 peace around it. So much of the fear around death 226 00:11:32.490 --> 00:11:34.070 is like, what's going to happen? What's it going to 227 00:11:34.129 --> 00:11:35.830 feel like? What's it going to be like? This is 228 00:11:35.850 --> 00:11:37.769 a scary thing. I can't even think about it. So 229 00:11:37.809 --> 00:11:39.029 if I can think about it in a way that 230 00:11:39.070 --> 00:11:41.509 feels peaceful to me, my nervous system will be soothed 231 00:11:41.570 --> 00:11:45.110 by the idea. And so I suggest that people fill 232 00:11:45.129 --> 00:11:47.750 it with as much sensory detail as possible. What's it 233 00:11:47.769 --> 00:11:50.129 feel like? What's it smell like? Who's there? Who's not there? 234 00:11:50.450 --> 00:11:51.990 What are you wearing? What are you seeing? What are 235 00:11:52.009 --> 00:11:55.440 you smelling? What time of day is it? Where are you? 236 00:11:55.779 --> 00:11:59.120 What's the lighting like? Make it really tangible. Because I 237 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:01.610 think once we can land it in the sensory experience, 238 00:12:01.950 --> 00:12:03.769 then we can ground it in the body. And then 239 00:12:03.809 --> 00:12:06.909 it doesn't feel so scary because this is my ideal death. 240 00:12:06.970 --> 00:12:09.929 This is something that feels comfortable or comforting to me. 241 00:12:10.669 --> 00:12:13.200 And oftentimes what I hear is it's like people's Sunday 242 00:12:13.269 --> 00:12:16.159 afternoon or when they're with the people that they love 243 00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:18.100 or when they're in their comfortable clothes or a place 244 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:20.470 that they're already familiar with. So if I think, well, 245 00:12:20.490 --> 00:12:22.750 if I can die in a way that I'm comfortable living, 246 00:12:22.769 --> 00:12:26.240 then maybe the process of dying won't be so bad. Maybe. 247 00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:28.419 You do this in your talk, but can you paint 248 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:30.720 a picture of what your vision is? 249 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:36.360 Yeah. Sunset. Sun's going down. The sky is changing. The 250 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:38.299 colors are really vivid that day. It's not one of 251 00:12:38.340 --> 00:12:39.850 these days with all the clouds, so I can't see 252 00:12:39.870 --> 00:12:44.409 the sky. But everything's changing. It's really pretty. I can 253 00:12:44.470 --> 00:12:46.870 see it. Ideally, I'm outside on a deck or something 254 00:12:46.909 --> 00:12:49.299 like that. in my own bed or a bed that 255 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.309 can be wheeled outside. There's no machines. I can hear 256 00:12:52.350 --> 00:12:55.970 the wind and the leaves. I can smell some Nag 257 00:12:55.990 --> 00:12:58.960 Champa Amber. My people are around, but they're not just 258 00:12:58.980 --> 00:13:01.639 like hovering over me, looking at me, because I don't 259 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.740 like being center of attention. It would make me really uncomfortable. 260 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:05.960 You don't like being the center of attention? 261 00:13:06.019 --> 00:13:06.320 No, I don't. 262 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:08.059 You just came off stage in front of 2,000 people. 263 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.379 And they're wearing bright orange, and I don't like it. 264 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:13.960 She's wearing bright orange, and it's pretty fetching. 265 00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:16.840 Thank you. But I want them to be like over there, 266 00:13:16.980 --> 00:13:21.220 talking amongst themselves and comforting each other. I want soft things. 267 00:13:21.259 --> 00:13:23.799 I want to feel soft things. I would love it 268 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:27.509 if there were sunflowers nearby. I want like a mustard 269 00:13:27.529 --> 00:13:30.590 yellow blanket or something. I just want to feel cozy 270 00:13:30.649 --> 00:13:35.429 and warm and safe and like people care, but I'm 271 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:37.360 not going to totally fuck up their lives by the 272 00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:38.029 fact that I'm dying. 273 00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:42.519 What about pain relief? Do you have some desire to 274 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.860 avoid that so you can be maximally conscious? 275 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:47.620 Yes, I would like to be as conscious as possible, 276 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:48.559 but with my pain managed. 277 00:13:49.029 --> 00:13:53.259 So middle path between obliteration through morphine and being as 278 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:54.779 awake as you can tolerate. 279 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:58.139 Absolutely. Although I know some people that want to be 280 00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:01.580 as awake as they can. One guy who I supported 281 00:14:02.070 --> 00:14:04.909 doing his end-of-life plan didn't want any pain medication at all. 282 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:06.450 That's what he said. 283 00:14:07.309 --> 00:14:08.070 Did he change his mind? 284 00:14:08.389 --> 00:14:09.350 I don't know. He's still living. 285 00:14:09.610 --> 00:14:10.049 Oh, great. 286 00:14:10.309 --> 00:14:10.509 Yeah. 287 00:14:17.909 --> 00:14:20.840 Thank you to Alua Arthur. She's amazing. And thank you 288 00:14:20.899 --> 00:14:24.539 to Lauren Smith for honing in on said amazingness. We'll 289 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.240 put a link to the full episode in the show 290 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.080 notes if you want to go check it out. Also, 291 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.879 Alua wrote a beautiful book called Briefly Perfectly Human, and 292 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.929 you can learn more about her at goingwithgrace.com. Another quick 293 00:14:35.950 --> 00:14:38.909 reminder before you go, scoot on over to danharris.com to 294 00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:41.350 become a paying subscriber, and you'll get access to a 295 00:14:41.389 --> 00:14:45.049 bunch of perks, including bespoke companion meditations that come with 296 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:49.700 every full-length episode, plus live video guided meditation sessions, ad-free 297 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:54.820 versions of this podcast, and much more. Check it out, danharris.com. Finally, 298 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:57.490 thank you to everybody who worked so hard to make 299 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:01.309 this show. Our producers are Tara Anderson, Caroline Keenan, and 300 00:15:01.389 --> 00:15:04.169 Eleanor Vasili. Our recording and engineering is handled by the 301 00:15:04.210 --> 00:15:06.870 great folks over at Pod People. Lauren Smith is our 302 00:15:06.929 --> 00:15:10.750 managing producer. Marissa Schneiderman is our senior producer. DJ Kashmir 303 00:15:10.830 --> 00:15:13.789 is our executive producer. And Nick Thorburn of the band 304 00:15:13.970 --> 00:15:15.169 Islands wrote our themes.