Why this Avalanche AVAX Digital Asset Treasury Company is a Game Changer! with Bart Smith の全文書き起こし

00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.400 effectively we were just interested in the concept of bitcoin, 71 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:53.560 and you know, we were just you know, we were 72 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:56.000 basically just like investing in bitcoin long there wasn't really 73 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:58.719 much more to do there, you know, as in the 74 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.360 ICO boom in the twenty on the teen timeframe, we 75 00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:04.919 became very active in a limited number of tokens where 76 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.120 we were quite sure that the SEC was going to 77 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:12.199 name you know, certain commodities as commodities and not name 78 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.879 them as securities, and so we kind of limit our 79 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.519 approach mostly to those names like cooin, bitcoin, bitcoin cash, ethereum, 80 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.199 and theorem classic, stuff like that. And then kind of 81 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.480 as there was that ICO correction in twenty eighteen, you know, 82 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.199 we went to try to kind of expand and kind 83 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:29.959 of set up like a proper OTC desk, and you know, 84 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:34.120 we just really couldn't get terribly comfortable with kind of 85 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.839 the legal and regulatory advice that we were getting and 86 00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:39.920 others were getting, and so, you know, we kind of 87 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:41.800 were very interested in the space. We made a lot 88 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:44.319 of direct investments over that time, but kind of there 89 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.639 was a period there for a while where we weren't 90 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:48.759 as active as maybe some of the other kind of 91 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:52.600 bigger US market making firms, and then kind of near 92 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:55.399 the twenty twenty one kind of run up, and that's 93 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:56.879 when we kind of made the decision that if if 94 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:59.959 we want to do this, and Susquehanna and my person 95 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.839 all kind of view of the world is taking a 96 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:06.120 very conservative approach towards legal and reguatory compliance, and that 97 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.079 just meant, you know, doing it offshore. And we knew 98 00:05:08.079 --> 00:05:09.560 that people were doing it in the US and they 99 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:12.720 were using VPNs and you know they which really just 100 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.680 means they're they're you know, they are you know, they're 101 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.120 they're not abiding by they're terms of service. But it's 102 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:20.639 you know, just in a broader sense, if we were 103 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:21.959 going to do this, we wanted to do it in 104 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.160 the most compliant and effective manner, which

meant, unfortunately, in 105 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:29.000 that timeframe, you know, going offshore, and that's what we did. 106 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:30.639 You know, we set up a global business that was 107 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:33.480 in three time zones but just not you know, in 108 00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:34.319 the US. 109 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.360 BART things have changed so much drastically since twenty fourteen. 110 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.519 We went from being taboo and the stigma of this 111 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:45.079 being used by criminals to this full blown asset class 112 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.319 that now Wall Street firms are jumping all in. They're 113 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:54.480 going neck deep adopting, launching, crypto trading, custody, tokenizing stable coins, 114 00:05:54.519 --> 00:05:57.199 and much more. Plus we have some legislation like the 115 00:05:57.279 --> 00:05:59.720 Genius Act. What is it like looking back and seeing the. 116 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:03.959 Growth it, you know it it felt really bleak for 117 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:07.199 a while there. And while there has been a tremendous 118 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:12.199 amount of progress in the last twelve months, uh you 119 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:14.519 clarity Genius Act, you know, and we're not We're not 120 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.040 through the woods on that. I not to take a 121 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.120 somewhat more parish view than many people, but like, there's 122 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.519 still a lot of work that needs to be done, 123 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:26.680 and we need to codify clarity, right because you know, 124 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.519 if you don't create laws that you know that and 125 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.120 rules to follow that are very clear, well then you're 126 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.279 just subject to the same kind of you know, regulatory 127 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.480 arbitrage that has existed historically. So that's something that you know, 128 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.920 in twenty twenty five, we need to kind of close out. 129 00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:43.120 It's kind of difficult right now with the government being 130 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:46.120 shut down. So those are things that i'm i'm i'm 131 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:48.759 looking at. And then what you're going to need to 132 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:53.199 have some sort of harmonization of regulatory rule making around 133 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:54.920 the globe, right, and you've seen a little bit of 134 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.920 like kind of things to be excited about. The US 135 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.000 is working with the FC in London, which has always 136 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.319 been like a fairly difficult and slow moving regulator, to 137 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:07.720 maybe harmonize some of their rulemaking. But then you have 138 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.040 all these other money centers you're going

to have. You know, 139 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.959 you have mic ou to for for broad EU, you 140 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.839 have you know, a lot of people going to UAE, 141 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.040 and then you have all the money centers you know 142 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:19.920 in in in the far East, right, so you have 143 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:24.959 like Singapore, Hong Kong, Soul, Tokyo. So there's a lot 144 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:29.519 of things for global firms, particularly global banks, to make 145 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.319 sure that they, you know, that they are harmonizing the 146 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.639 rules so that they can run businesses globally and they 147 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.199 don't have to have a different set of rules and 148 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:40.399 a different set of groups and and and groups that 149 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:44.279 can't really function, you know, globally, because there's different rules 150 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.959 and reanks in each locale. So I think we've made 151 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:52.480 a lot of progress. I think institutions are very interested. 152 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.639 What we haven't solved for is kind of this, you know, 153 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.839 banks being able to be kind of prime brokers for 154 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.160 are for liquidity providers and market makers in the space. 155 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:04.879 I think, you know, the events from a couple of 156 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.519 weeks ago, that was the function of that. Like there's 157 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.720 just there isn't enough capital that's fungible and and where 158 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:15.800 you can arbitraze price differences and different platforms and in 159 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.720 different in different areas, so that stuff it still needs 160 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.079 to happen. But like from where we were twelve months ago, yeah, 161 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.360 it's you know, we're white years, so that that part's good, 162 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:27.600 but we still have a lot of work to do. 163 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:30.600 Yeah, it's a great point because I've been hearing some 164 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:33.759 folks are, for example, not happy with the EU and 165 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.720 the MECA regulations there and there's some departures. But then 166 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.399 you know, you have the United States getting ready to 167 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:41.679 pass the Clarity Act once the government opens up. But 168 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.159 to your point, how does this all mesh together? And 169 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.720 with these big jurisdictions. So, like you said, this is work. 170 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:51.039 To be done here. Correct, Yes, I agree. 171 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.440 All right, let's talk about Avalanche treasury. Cope, give us 172 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.879 the full rundown, the history, the mission, and much more so. 173 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:02.159 So in my previous firm, you know, we were we 174 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:04.720 were looking a lot of these digitalistic treasuries, and you 175 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:06.399 know there's there's some are good, some are you know, 176 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:09.120 we're less attractive to us. We were very interested in 177 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:11.519 like different structures. Right, there's a lot of firms that 178 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.679 are just taking kind of an existing OpCo and they 179 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.200 just do a pipe into it. And you know, oftentimes 180 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.919 that company that's pivoting from a you know, a failed strategy, 181 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:23.559 whether it's you know, gaming or betting or like it's 182 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.559 like a hemp manufacturer. There's like, you know, there there 183 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:31.639 are you know, the different like medical failed companies, and 184 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:34.639 so in my opinion, those are more problematic, right, they 185 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:37.480 have they have historical problems you have to address. They're 186 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:40.200 operating companies, they're registered, they're regulated, so you have to 187 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.159 kind of continue to run these often failed businesses while 188 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:46.039 the primary business is completely unrelated. And like to me, 189 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.320 that was always kind of difficult. And so when the 190 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.639 concept of an Avalanche digitized of treasury came along. You know, 191 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:56.840 people reach out to us because in the last round 192 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:01.519 of Avalanche raised money, we were one of the largest 193 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:05.279 participants in that race. So there, you know, people knew 194 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.320 that that we were constructive on Avalanche, and I was 195 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:11.240 personally constructive. And then as you know, it was kind 196 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:12.720 of in the early stage of thinking about what that 197 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:14.519 might look like. You know, I had some very strong 198 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.799 opinions about you know, what would lead to success and 199 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:19.120 what you know, the next generation of these debts are 200 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:20.679 going to look like. And the more that I was 201 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:22.320 thinking about it, the more I thought, you know, this 202 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:25.879 might be a unique opportunity to do something different. And 203 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:27.360 you know, there's going to be a lot of these 204 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:30.360 digitalass of treasuries, and I think, just like in every 205 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.200 other part of the capital

markets, you're going to have 206 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.440 winners and losers. And you know, if you built one 207 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.799 that was you know, purpose built to do uh to 208 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:43.759 provide you know, exposure to the avalanche ecosystem, but you 209 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:46.200 could go beyond, you know, what you might be able 210 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.519 to get by just owning the underlying spot commodity or 211 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.720 an ETF. Like I think there's a unique opportunities that 212 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.120 this type of structure provides. And so the more you know, 213 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.200 I thought about it, the more excited I got, and 214 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:58.840 you know, ultimately I ended up here. 215 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:02.720 And there's going to be the question that folks have is, well, 216 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:05.399 why not Bitcoin, why not eat? Why not Salona? Why 217 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:07.000 avax or Avalanche? 218 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:12.120 So I do think that one of the benefits of 219 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:14.759 the regulatory clarity that we've had and the excitement they 220 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:19.159 have around it is that like, finally, institutions, governments, you know, 221 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:23.200 are going to be able to implement blockchain technology to 222 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.960 make their businesses better, right, and so at its core, 223 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:31.639 you know, blockchain technology is is software and so so 224 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.279 now if you say, okay, well how are businesses going 225 00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:38.840 to implement blockchain technology? I do feel like Avalanche has 226 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:42.159 a very strategic advantage in like a kind of government 227 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:44.519 and business vertical that it's you know, it's not the 228 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.039 mag one, right, the mag seven. So like throughout the 229 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.639 last couple of decades, there have been many winners in 230 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:55.039 technology put through software. They had different approaches and so 231 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.720 you know, you had you know, telecom, you have Internet, 232 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.159 you have SaaS, you had all these different areas. You 233 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:03.960 could have a winner or multiple winners. I think as 234 00:12:04.720 --> 00:12:07.960 people look to implement blockchain technology into businesses, one of 235 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:11.399 the difficulties they have is that businesses don't want to 236 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.919 take their private information, all the customers private information, and 237 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:16.879 put it in a public blockchain. It's just like it's 238 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.759 not it's not it's not starter, right, So you know 239 00:12:19.799 -->

00:12:22.360 what a lot of people have done is is maybe 240 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.279 looked at like ethereum and building you know, kind of 241 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:27.440 an L two. Like the unique structure of the Avalanche 242 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:29.279 chain is if they have this kind of three chain 243 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:32.080 approach and and one of them, the C chain, allows 244 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.559 people to build their own l ones kind of out 245 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:38.159 of the box in a way that's supported by this 246 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:41.600 broader network. And you know, you don't need to have 247 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:45.159 like an army of software developers to develop that. So 248 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.879 you see in companies like Robinhood or uh you know that, 249 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.039 you know Google, they're gonna build their own They're gonna 250 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:54.320 build their own change, which makes total sense because they 251 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.039 want to implement k y C and a m L. 252 00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:58.240 They don't want to put their their customers you know, 253 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.039 private information on public lock chain. But most importantly, like 254 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.080 they want to own the entire financial stack, right like 255 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.240 they want to be able to customize it and so 256 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.279 but then at the end they want this kind of 257 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:11.559 base layer, you know security, and that's where you've seen 258 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.080 Ethereum have success. Right There's all these L two's that 259 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:15.919 are building on top of the Ethereum and they're basically 260 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:21.679 just paying for THEEUM level one, you know security. And 261 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:25.480 so for me just looking at all of the companies 262 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.399 that have already been building on Avalanche because they have 263 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.960 the capacity to customize an L one, but then you know, 264 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.840 into a the security of the Avalanche, which is also 265 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.120 EVM capatible, so you can you can connect out for 266 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:41.200 the rest of the world like KKR, Polo, Toyota, FIFA, 267 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:47.000 like big brand names are utilizing Avalanche today to build 268 00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:51.679 for a myriad of reasons. Avalanche team has really built 269 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:55.519 in Japan and in Korea and other parts, Like they're 270 00:13:55.600 --> 00:13:58.559 kind of market leaders in a lot of these spaces, 271 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.960 and you know, I just don't think people really understand 272 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:05.840 how differentiated AVAX and Avalanche is. So like when I'm 273 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.799 looking at kind of an opportunity, you know, it's it's 274 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.159 you have all of this stuff here and really you 275 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.279 just need to be able to package it and market it. 276 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.720 In a way that people can understand the opportunity, and like, 277 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:20.000 what a better way to do that than to create 278 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.679 a regulated public company that's audited that you can go 279 00:14:23.720 --> 00:14:26.879 out and basically reboot, you know, the marketing, you know, 280 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:29.919 in in partnership with all of people from the ecosystem 281 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.720 to kind of make people aware of like what's going 282 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:34.600 on in Avalanche and why they might want to own 283 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:38.000 a little bit of exposure to the ecosystem in their 284 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:39.840 investment portfolio. 285 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.879 Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And uh, obviously I'm an 286 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:47.120 AVAC tookenholders. I'm very much aware of all the adults. 287 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:48.840 But I don't mind the bias. I don't mind the bias. 288 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:49.360 It's okay. 289 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.679 Yeah, but I wanted to make sure that question was 290 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.240 answered for people who don't hold avacs already, having they 291 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.120 don't know much about Avalanche. So I think it's important 292 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.360 to outline now which you did. So you know, you 293 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:03.960 mentioned that this this is not only about holding AVAX 294 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.720 but also participating in the ecosystem. Let's double click a 295 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:09.960 bit into that, like, how what are some of the 296 00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:12.679 initiatives you'll be doing as far as supporting the ecosystem? 297 00:15:13.399 --> 00:15:15.440 Right, so you know we're going to take a lot 298 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:19.080 of keys from the regulators. Right, So there's there's been 299 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:22.679 a wave of these dead Lasha treasuries and so we 300 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.360 you know, we're as we're going through our own s 301 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.559 four and we're our goal is in the first quarter 302 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.519 of twenty twenty six to successfully merge with Mountain Lake 303 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:35.399 Acquisition Corp. Will be a listed company. We are going 304 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:37.440 to There's a lot of things that we can do 305 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:39.679 and that I believe we're going to be able to do, 306 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.440 but we have to also just kind of go through 307 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:44.919 this process and make sure that that everything that we're 308 00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:46.879 doing is aligned with the

you know, the SEC and 309 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.320 other regulators. So I think that's an important point that 310 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.840 you know that we are going to continually evaluate that. 311 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.639 So let's putting that aside. There's a lot of things 312 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:01.240 that happen in an ecosystem that have value that doesn't 313 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.600 fully or a majority kind of a crewe down to 314 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.279 the token. So like so if you think about Ethereum, right, 315 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.480 which is you know, the largest non bitcoin blockchain, and 316 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:12.639 I always have kind of thought, like, you know, bitcoin 317 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.399 is digital gold, right, it's over here, and there's a 318 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.879 world where people might build applications on bitcoin but it 319 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.879 feels like pretty far away from that. So excluding that 320 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.080 in Ethereum you've had, you know, it's the largest blockchain, 321 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.440 it's the oldest, and there are a lot of applications 322 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.759 that have built on top of Avalanche right Ave Right, 323 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.720 it's worth four billion dollars, it's seen one of the largest. 324 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:35.879 It's not the largest lending protocol you have like Uni 325 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.559 swap right, which is a trading platform decks that it's 326 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.080 on top of the built primarily on top of Ethereum. 327 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:45.200 That's worth a four million dollars. You know. A lot 328 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.600 of the value of those companies doesn't go down to 329 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:50.679 the Ethereum network. Some does, but like it wasn't as 330 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:54.000 if if you owned you know, Uni swap, or if 331 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:57.240 you owned ave, you know, you've got a different kind 332 00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.519 of return than would trickle down to Ethereum. You know, 333 00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.480 the the value of you know, fully diluted value of Ethereum, 334 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.240 you know, give or take, you know, rounding broadly, it 335 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:09.039 is probably like five hundred billion dollars. Right. A lot 336 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:13.240 of the excitement around Ethereum is stable coin usage, right, 337 00:17:13.319 --> 00:17:15.599 and Tether's the bigges stable coin in the world. Teather's 338 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.599 worth five hundred billion dollars, right, So like teather being 339 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.319 you know, and and some of that crews down to 340 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:23.240 Tron because you know, there's a lot of tether on TRON, 341 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:27.559 So like some value accrue down to ethereum from tether, 342 00:17:27.720

--> 00:17:30.000 but like how much you know, and like how much 343 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:34.039 accrued from AVE and how much accrued from uh, you know, 344 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.039 all of these other platforms out for the unisops of 345 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.240 the world. So like there's definitely a network effect that 346 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:42.119 will happen that will creue more value. So if you're 347 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:46.799 looking to get exposure to implementation and growth of the 348 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:50.519 avalanche ecosystem, you can own AVAX and like that should 349 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:53.559 work to some degree. But all of these l ones 350 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.400 that are being built on top of avalanche, where you 351 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.960 have these kind of private companies or governments or different 352 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:03.279 you know, uh kind of news, like builders that are 353 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.759 building applications on top of avalanche, some of that will 354 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.440 crew down because there will be a network effect. But 355 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:10.480 if you could get a little piece or you could 356 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.559 invest in, you know, some of those companies, that probably 357 00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:17.519 gives you a much better exposure to the growth of 358 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:20.400 the ecosystem. So you know, we're going to own evacs, 359 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.880 We're going to stake it. You know historically, you know, 360 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.240 very conservatively, you know that's gotten you know, mid single 361 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.680 digits to like high single digit kind of yield returns 362 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.559 from from you know, taking the AVAX and using it 363 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.119 to secure the blockchain. So we can do that. There's 364 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:39.279 other things that we would love to be able to do. 365 00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:40.960 Can we you know, buy a validator and run our 366 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:44.839 own notes and you know, could we lend our avax 367 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.599 to builders and applications and l ones that are building 368 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.799 on avalanche right, and can we work with them to 369 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.519 help them kind of with their staking, you know, with 370 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.240 their their the avax they need. Can we work with 371 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:01.400 them to make their businesses better? Can we do you know, 372 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:05.240 DeFi activities in the space. Can we there are derivatives obviously, 373 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:07.240 you know, coming from Susquehanna, like, there's a lot of 374 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:11.359 driven activity that you do with options and future strategies 375 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.759 that can generate diversified and maybe in some cases higher 376 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:17.200 levels of income. So what you end up getting is, 377 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.119 you know, this this diversified pool of of exposures that 378 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.519 should do better. If the ecosystem does really well, then 379 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.920 if you just owned the token seuth so like you 380 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.240 know that that that is the thesis that we're going after, sure, 381 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:37.160 is that we can provide a much better kind of 382 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.839 holistic exposure for value accrual for uh for individuals in 383 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.599 a way that is the access they want, right Like 384 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.920 many you know, many high net worth individuals and institutions 385 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.680 like they just they're either can't or do not want 386 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:58.720 to buy you know, spot commodities, digitaliztic commodities on unregulated exchanges. 387 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:00.880 That's it's not how they want to interact. So if 388 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:04.559 I can create you know, a public company where people 389 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:08.400 can invest through convertible bonds or through preferreds or through 390 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.200 straight equity, and they can hold it in the brokerage 391 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.000 account and they can they can invest in it just 392 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:14.599 like they invest in everything else. And then you have 393 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.039 this exposure where we can take you know, that capital 394 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.200 and then we can put that into the enterprise that 395 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.160 is avalanche and you know, you would imagine that that 396 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:29.000 that capital coming in should provide you know more you know, uh, 397 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:31.559 you know, gas for the fire, so to speak. Right, 398 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:34.119 You're gonna you're gonna help to like to to implement 399 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.119 more capital into the ecosystem, which should you know, you 400 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:40.359 would hope help the ecosystem grow. So that's kind of 401 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.880 like the dual nature, right, So like you you allow 402 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.640 regulated exposure for people in the way that they want 403 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.799 to invest, and then you take that capital and you 404 00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.640 invest it into the ecosystem, which you would hope benefits 405 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:53.599 the growth and is mutually beneficial for for for the whole, 406 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.559 you know, for both parties. So that that's the concept 407 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:58.240 as I think about it. 408 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.759 And then for this thinking rewards and the DeFi yield 409 00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.400 and so forth, will that be

potentially paid out in 410 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.480 dividends or reinvested. 411 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:09.079 Again we you know, we haven't gotten that far in 412 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.079 the strategy. And mean I would think I think that 413 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.880 you know, dividends and paying out dividends is something that 414 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.599 you know companies do when they're kind of in a 415 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.279 later stage of growth. Right. So like typically when you 416 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:23.079 have kind of you know, growth companies, particularly like you 417 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.480 know high growth companies, like, the best use of that 418 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.759 capital is to continue to reinvest it because your kind 419 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.799 of expected rate of returns are going to be higher. 420 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.599 So I would my guess is that the best use 421 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.880 of you know, whatever capital we have would be to 422 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.680 continue to try to find the best returns. But like, sure, 423 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.359 if it you know, if there are certain situations where 424 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.400 you know, it would make sense to pay a dividend 425 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:47.880 or a special dividend. But yeah, I think you know, 426 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.680 right now, we're, like I said before, we're going to 427 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:52.920 kind of take the cues from the SEC and make 428 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.759 sure that we you know, we're disclosing risks and we're 429 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.000 and we're setting this up in a way that is compliant. 430 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.839 And then yeah, well as a lot of just Trypto 431 00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.160 in general is like not being overly prescriptive and and 432 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.039 just kind of taking what the market gives you. And 433 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.240 so you know, we're gonna we're you know, Lane Littman 434 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.559 is my CEO, who he was the president Hidden Road 435 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.519 and and spent many years you know, working at ad 436 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.200 Vertue and and and you know Coleman and but banks, 437 00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.720 like we've seen a lot of iterations of this, and 438 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.799 so you know what we're gonna do is we have 439 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.799 a strategy. We're going to communicate, you know, owning and 440 00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.240 staking Avax is going to be a very large portion 441 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.240 of it. And then to the extent that we can 442 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.759 have other additive sleeves of our strategy that are smaller, 443 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.799 but we we believe would offer a diversified, better exposure 444 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:45.039 and you know, hopefully provide kind of risk adjusted you know, 445 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.920 good rates of returns for investors. Like that's that's the plan, 446 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:50.359 oh for sure. 447 00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.720 And as far as your au M, I read that, 448 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.480 uh looking to buy a billion dollars of AVAX tokens, 449 00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:56.920 Is that right? 450 00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.680 I mean yeah, Ultimately, you know, we have we close 451 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.519 a private placement and then we have this you know, 452 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.799 pending business combination with Mountain Lake ac Position Corp. You know, 453 00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.200 at that point, depending what the market does, that that's 454 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.200 going to be somewhere in the mid hundreds of millions, 455 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.680 if not higher. But yes, the idea is to as 456 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:25.240 the as avalanche continues to grow, is to continue to 457 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.440 try to seek out capital again in ways that people 458 00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:31.799 want to invest in the market, to help inject more 459 00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.720 capital into the space. The thing that's interesting to me 460 00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.599 is that and you know if over time, you know, 461 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.880 sometimes you'll hear me save this over and over like 462 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.960 every other industry was allowed to grow this way, you know, 463 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:49.559 software SaaS, you know, telecom, the Internet, and that you 464 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.680 created a public company and you wrote you raised money 465 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.599 through debt or through converts or through equity, and you 466 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.000 took that money and invest in the enterprise. The enterprise 467 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.440 did well, bondholders and equi holders did well, and this 468 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.480 industry was specifically not allowed to do that. And so 469 00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:10.359 this digitalized a treasury structure allows for that to happen. Right, 470 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.160 you can go, you have a public company and you 471 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.960 can raise money in you know, in the public markets 472 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.240 in a variety of ways, and that could be issuing equities, 473 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:19.519 but that you know, there's other things that you can 474 00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.759 do that might be attractive to both a different type 475 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.799 of investor and we might be more attractive in trying 476 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:29.680 to generate more AVAX per share for our shareholders. And 477 00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.759 so that to me is what I find most exciting 478 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:37.279 about this structure. And then obviously because you know it's 479 00:24:37.359 -->

00:24:39.880 not a mutual fund or an ETF, like, you don't 480 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:44.039 have to prepare yourself for the possibility of deploying money 481 00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.480 on any given day that you weren't prepared for or 482 00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:48.880 having to redeem money. Right, so if you if you're 483 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.599 open to a mutual fund redemption or an ETF redemption 484 00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.559 and having get any given day, that's very limiting in 485 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.000 what you can do to provide exposure to you know, 486 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.480 your yes, because in theory, you know you hope this 487 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:05.880 doesn't happen, but on some given day, everybody could come 488 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.079 and rush to want a redeem and so you need 489 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:12.440 to be able to meet those redemptions. And that is 490 00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.240 very limiting in what you can do to try to 491 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:20.480 maximize a longer term strategy. So yeah, I think I 492 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.480 think that's the I think that in the evolution of 493 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.440 kind of these digitous of treasuries, I think that's the 494 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.039 most compelling argument that people will come to realize with like, 495 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.880 this is just a better structure to invest in an 496 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.359 early what is still, in my opinion, a very early 497 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.880 emerging technology. 498 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.200 So on that note of being an early emerging technology, 499 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.440 I wanted to get your take on this trend and 500 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.480 how long you think it lasts. You know, where this 501 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.640 asset class grows and there's maybe less volatility, but there 502 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.480 is this staking and the you know, DeFi component where 503 00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.240 you can do a lot more with the asset right. 504 00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:58.799 But you know, let's say a bear market or a 505 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.359 market downturn rolls around. How are you preparing for that? 506 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.680 And do you see other dats failing you know, maybe 507 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.200 some consolidation and things like that. 508 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.640 Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to how other people 509 00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.119 are thinking about it. But like the thing that I 510 00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.400 found most surprising about that, you know, that sell off 511 00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:17.039 you know whatever at this point, it was like three 512 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:20.680 Fridays ago. Was how surprised that people were right? Like, 513 00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:25.160 it's like these asset classes are very volatile because their 514 00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:29.079 early stage, all good new ideas are volatile, right, and 515 00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.279 so you know, you have to have the expectation that 516 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:37.759 that you know, when volatility or when you know, a 517 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.440 sell off happens, like you need to be prepared that 518 00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:43.480 that could be, you know, a pretty meaningful sell off 519 00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.680 and it could last for a long time. My first 520 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:51.039 job out of college, I worked at Payne Weberg, which 521 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.920 was later acquired by UBS. And you know, the market 522 00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.200 was at the very end of the like the internet 523 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.839 dot com bubble, and so for the first like four 524 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.960 or five six months i work there, the market just 525 00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.880 went up, right, and then it went down for three years, 526 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.559 so you know, two thousand and two thousand and one, 527 00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.599 two thousand and two, all negative years de s and P. 528 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.599 Five hundred. So that was like a very formulative experience 529 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.880 for me. So like you have to you know, we're 530 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.000 thinking about these this vehicle as a long term vehicle, 531 00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.039 but like it's the idea here is not to try 532 00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:23.519 to take incremental risk that is unwarranted. The idea is 533 00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.640 to take a long term approach that is prudent, that 534 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.799 provides kind of the best exposure you can for your shareholders. 535 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.920 And so as we're thinking about in this, you know, 536 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.000 this strategy going forward, you always in the back of 537 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.799 your mind have to keep thinking like, well, you know, 538 00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.440 like if you have this massive people are coming into 539 00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.839 the space because they think they have a one, two, three, 540 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.240 five X. You know, I don't have any forecasts of 541 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.200 of you know, where the market capitalization is going to go. 542 00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:52.160 But it's like it's you know, if you're buying this 543 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:53.839 is because you think that there's an opportunity for to 544 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.799 go meaningfully higher like that. There's no free lunch, right 545 00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.640 like that that's going to come with periods of doubt 546 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.759 and periods of fear, and that's when you're gonna have 547 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:04.839 you know, market selloffs and the and the best thing 548 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.680 that you can do is to position yourself

to benefit 549 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.759 from those moments and not to be the person who's 550 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.880 being harmed by those moments. So, you know, I think 551 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.400 that that will be a key component of of how 552 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.240 we think about it. And then yeah, you have like 553 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.279 you said, there's there's all of these digitals of treasuries 554 00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.880 out there. They're gonna have to distinguish themselves, right, They're 555 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.200 gonna have to. They're gonna have to you know, they're 556 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.880 gonna have to capture mind share from people, and they're 557 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.160 gonna have to be able to communicate like an effective 558 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.119 strategy and and then deliver on that. So like the 559 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.920 capital markets, if nothing, are very efficient and so over time, 560 00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.799 I think you will see kind of winners and losers 561 00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:46.240 that that that kind of show up, you know, over time. 562 00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:49.160 And you know, I think that that we're excited about 563 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.599 our ability to to to navigate that. 564 00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.000 Yeah for sure. And uh, I'm just curious to see 565 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.519 how things play out. And and uh I believe in 566 00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.160 the digital asterid treasuries of course, and I think it's 567 00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.799 a great approach, great a hybrid approach of crypto and 568 00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.920 the trad fire world and you know, allowing folks to 569 00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:10.599 get exposure. But you know, I guess, as with all 570 00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:12.759 things in the free market, you're going to have companies 571 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.880 that are well run and some that are poorly run. 572 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.400 And uh, you know, the tips are going to fall 573 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.519 with a fall in the volatility hits or at the 574 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.680 bear market, so we'll have to wait and see. 575 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:23.839 Yeah, I mean, I think that was part of the 576 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.160 reason why we went the route we did, which is 577 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.920 to kind of set up a purpose built company from scratch. 578 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.920 Right so you know, when when you when you you know, 579 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.359 when you look at the company, it's called the Avalanche 580 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.319 Treasury Company, right, Like, there is no doubt in kind 581 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.519 of what we're doing. Our sole focus is going to 582 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.240 be on delivering kind of value to customers and in 583 00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.880 shareholders in a in a in a way that that 584 00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.720 you know, we feel like can better represent the growth 585 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.720 of the ecosystem. And and yeah, and I think that 586 00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.880 you know, we we like there's gonna It's not like 587 00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.920 I'm not worried about well, you know, an alternative investment 588 00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.119 per se. It's just like there's a whole world of investments. 589 00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.680 Like they don't need to own crypto at all, right, 590 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.400 they don't need to own blockchain technology. So can we 591 00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:17.680 effectively communicate a value proposition of owning you know, this 592 00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.720 asset versus any other asset? And now, and I think 593 00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.359 if you're listed, you know, on a public stock exchange 594 00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:27.759 in the US, you are now competing against basically every 595 00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.799 asset in the world. And so I think that that's 596 00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.640 what we're focused on, is providing you know, a structure 597 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.079 and a company and an exposure that people are interested in, 598 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.960 and then being able to communicate that effectively. Yeah. 599 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.359 Absolutely, And then on the communication of communicating that effectively. 600 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.519 You know, you have ETFs out there, right, there's going 601 00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:50.400 to be a vx boty tfs and so forth. So 602 00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.920 I'm curious, you know, how would you'll be what would 603 00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.000 be your elevator pitch to say, hey, this data is 604 00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.160 better than just buying an ETF. 605 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.599 Well, you know what's funny is that, you know, treasuries 606 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:06.240 as like every kind of uh, you know, anytime there's 607 00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:09.160 like a new vehicle or something that's in favor, you know, 608 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.839 there's a lot of criticism that comes with that. Back 609 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.640 in like the two thousand and eight time frame, two 610 00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.279 thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, there was a 611 00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.720 ton of criticism about ETFs. The ETFs provided like a 612 00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.480 systematic risk and that the creation redemption, uh, you know, 613 00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:27.759 mechanism was going to fail under a massive amount of 614 00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:31.759 like market drests, and that you know that that ETFs 615 00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:36.200 were creating it impossible for small and mid capitalization companies 616 00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:39.200 to seek capital that can differentiate because people were just 617 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.920

buying the index. And there's just like there was a 618 00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:43.880 lot of fun around ETFs and how was it was 619 00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:47.559 a you know, this like this really risky, dangerous, unproven 620 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.480 structure and then here we are, you know, fast forward 621 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.279 to twenty twenty five and people are saying, oh, these 622 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.720 digitalts of treasuries, you know, have all of these shortcomings. 623 00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:58.920 You should have been putting it into a ETF, right, 624 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.160 And so it's just funny how like things evolve over 625 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.400 time as people become familiar with structures. And ETF is 626 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.880 not good or bad. It is just a rapper, right, 627 00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:10.000 It just it's a function of what you put in it, 628 00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.839 and the same way a dies US treasury is not 629 00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:14.559 good or bad. It's just a function of like what 630 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.400 is in it and what do you do with that capital. 631 00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:22.640 ETFs are like one of the most democratizing you know 632 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.759 structures that have in financial services has ever created. Right, 633 00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.000 It Like it allowed people to get exposure to gold 634 00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.720 and to a whole host of things that in average 635 00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:35.279 small you know, institution or high not worth investor didn't 636 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.559 have access to and so if people want to use 637 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.680 ETF to get exposure to avax or any other crypto like, 638 00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:44.480 that is net positive and I'm very supportive of that. 639 00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.799 I would argue to the points I made earlier that 640 00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.839 just owning the avax token itself and then staking that 641 00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:54.160 for whatever amount that they're going to be able to stake, 642 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:55.920 given the fact that they're going to have to respond 643 00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:01.160 to to you know, daily creation redemn requests, and then 644 00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.640 the ability to trade that asset and keep that in 645 00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.400 line you every day in the marketplace, like it could 646 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.119 be an expensive proposition. I think by and large, market 647 00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.440 makers in the competitive marketplace will figure it out. But 648 00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.799 it's not totally clear to me how efficient a vehicle 649 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.680 you're going to have for uh, you know, avax or 650 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.839 some of the other tokens that aren't Bitcoin and aren't 651 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.640 ethereum right, And so to me, I think that there's 652 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.559 you know, we've seen these digitalish treasury structures over you know, 653 00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:33.640 the last couple of years, and so there's like I 654 00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.279 think in my mind, there's probably more certainty in my 655 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.960 in my from my position of of what, you know, 656 00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.440 what that looks like day to day, and less so 657 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.960 in all of these new ETFs that are coming out, 658 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.759 like managing that asset day to day and having market 659 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:50.480 makers keep that price in line with Spot like could 660 00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.759 be problematic. And and then again you're just kind of 661 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.599 because you have to have daily redemption and creation requests, like, 662 00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.759 you're just going to be very limited as owning the 663 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.400 spot market. And so our hope is that for people 664 00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:04.480 who would like to get you know, a differ, a 665 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.719 different exposure and maybe something that I would think would 666 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:12.239 be hopefully more of a true exposure of the growth 667 00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.480 of the ecosystem. I think you put those two things 668 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.119 side by side, and I feel very good about the 669 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.519 value proposition that that we put forth. And and for 670 00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:24.599 a lot of people that might just seem too complicated 671 00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:26.760 and that can buy the ETF and that's fine, right, 672 00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.440 you know. I I don't know over time if that 673 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.119 will get them what they're looking for, but I certainly 674 00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:33.960 understand why people would want to own it, and people 675 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.960 in general buying a BAX is good for the ecosystem, 676 00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.199 and you know, we're obviously very supportive of it. So 677 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:41.440 you know, like I'm you know, I spend a lot 678 00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:44.400 of time in that industry, you know, and I like 679 00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.639 you know, a lot of my friends are still working 680 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:50.280 at you know, all of these firms. Bit Wise are 681 00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:53.599 three guys that I've known for you know, over a decade, 682 00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.840 if not longer, And so they're gonna bit Wise is 683 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.039 going to launch an avax ETF And if you want 684 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.239 to buy an a bax ETF, you should the bit 685 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.280 wise etah for any of these other companies that are 686 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.880 listing them. So yeah, I think I think we're We're

focused, 687 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.639 like I said, on putting our strategy together and putting 688 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:11.880 forth the best strategy we can and then making sure 689 00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.960 we're doing it in a prudent way gives people the 690 00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.719 best exposure. And you know, there's gonna be a lot 691 00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.840 of other investment opportunities beyond crypto that we're also competing 692 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.639 for mind share. And so I'm in reality, I'm probably 693 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.480 more thoughtful about how do we distinguish the opportunity versus 694 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:32.000 like the field versus you know, a comparable passive exposure 695 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.360 or you know, owning spot on you know, coinbase or 696 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.519 robin Hood or something like that. 697 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.880 Yeah, yeah, that definitely makes sense. I'm curious. You probably 698 00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.599 can't talk about it. You mentioned go other investments. I'm 699 00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:45.679 assuming that's under wraps right now. 700 00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:49.800 Right yeah. I mean again, we're like we're still going 701 00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.039 through kind of the registration process, and so you know, 702 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:57.719 we will be in communication with with the regulators about 703 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:02.159 you know what what we'd be interested to do. You know. 704 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.079 The the the wonderful thing about the SEC and EDGAR 705 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.920 is all these filings are public, so you know, we 706 00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.360 also get the benefit of people who started before us, 707 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.000 and so you know, every time you know there's another filing, 708 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.719 you know, an updated regulatory uh kind of response to 709 00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:20.840 another one of the digitalist of treasuries, it's just an 710 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.079 opportunity for us to kind of clean you know, what 711 00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.280 is you know, what is in the gray area and 712 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:28.519 what is not and then you know, like I said, 713 00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.199 like we're going to take a very conservative approach towards 714 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:33.280 regulatory and legal compliance and we're not gonna go anywhere 715 00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:38.199 near gray areas. I feel pretty confident that the the 716 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.800 from from what I'm seeing in the market to date, 717 00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:46.000 like the these structures will be won't be very limited. 718 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:47.840 You know that they that that you know, as long 719 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.079 as you're disclosing and you are doing all the things 720 00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.239 that you're supposed to be doing, you know, from from 721 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.559 that perspective that you should have a you know, the 722 00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.480 ability to do whatevery other corporate treasury in America has 723 00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.719 been able to do. And I think sometimes people act 724 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.440 like these are new vehicles, right Like Berkshire Hathaway and 725 00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.079 Apple and Microsoft are like the largest corporate treasuries in 726 00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.599 the world. They just have this massive operating business alongside 727 00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.000 of it. But Berkshire Hathway doesn't. Berksure Hathaway just buys 728 00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.639 companies and they invest in other companies and then they 729 00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:20.519 have this huge pile of cast they use. So like 730 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:25.519 the concept of a corporate treasury and corporate treasury management 731 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.480 is not new, It's just it was taken and kind 732 00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.159 of implemented by Michael Sailor and micro strategies, and the 733 00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:37.400 benefits from being able to use that capital structure to 734 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:41.000 invest with a whole slew of people who today have 735 00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:44.280 not been able to access you know, this asset class 736 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.480 the way that they wanted to. And I think everyone said, wow, 737 00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:50.800 that's that's actually that's a great evolution of something that 738 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.639 already existed. I would like to apply that to this 739 00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:56.119 ecosystem and see if I can provide, you know, a 740 00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.599 better you know return or a better exposure for investors, 741 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:01.440 and so that's that's kind of how you know, we 742 00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:02.400 ended up here today. 743 00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.400 Byway, that's a great example that you gave with Berkshire, 744 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.079 Hathaway and Apple because of to your point of their 745 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.360 corporate treasury, right, it's loads of cash they're sitting on. 746 00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:18.119 So's that's a great, great example in regards to your 747 00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:22.199 timeline and roadmap, what are you expecting for the remainder 748 00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.440 at the end of this year excuse me, and going 749 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:25.400 into twenty twenty six. 750 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.000 So the next step for us is obviously to you know, 751 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.880 our registration in this business combination with with m LAC 752 00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:38.639 that we are you know, we're working through and the 753 00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.360 hope is that that would be you know effective or 754 00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:45.719 closed in the first

quarter of twenty twenty six. We 755 00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.320 absously need the government to open for that to happen, 756 00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.800 and so you know, I don't expect at this point 757 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.639 in time to have to adjust that that timeline. But 758 00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.039 we're you know, we are subject to you know, the 759 00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.800 things that are out of our control. And so once 760 00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.320 that that, you know, once that business combination, uh, you know, 761 00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.760 hopefully gets approved and closes, and then you know, then 762 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:13.360 it's it's you know, the strategy will go from there. 763 00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:15.440 And at that point we had, like I said, this 764 00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:20.199 permanent capital vehicle where you know, our investment timeframe is 765 00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:24.239 just way longer, right, and so you know we're looking 766 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.440 at you know, the opportunities that are in there that 767 00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.000 could supplement just owning AVAX and staking it, which again 768 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:34.159 is going to be you know, a large portion of 769 00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:35.519 what we're doing. I just want to you know, I 770 00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:37.000 don't want to think that this is going to be 771 00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:39.760 like you know, a venture funt right. You know that 772 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:41.880 this the idea is to have that at its core, 773 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.159 you know, is trying to return more avacx per share 774 00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.760 for you know, our shareholders. And then if we could 775 00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.599 have sleeves that are diversifying or a creative or provide 776 00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.639 different exposures, you know that I think that is going 777 00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.480 to be the differentiator. So you know, I would I 778 00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:01.280 look at it kind of in a two step process, 779 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.320 like we need to meet the obligations of of our 780 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.119 regulator and and and hopefully have this close you know, 781 00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.679 that requires the government to reopen and then and then 782 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.159 beyond that, I think then you know, then we're taking 783 00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.159 this kind of longer view, Okay, Okay, how do we 784 00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.880 how do we represent the opportunity set? Uh, you know 785 00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:23.119 that that this ecosystem provives, you know, in this vehicle. 786 00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.639 Something came to mind as you were talking about you're 787 00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:31.559 making those statements. We've seen a massive race kicking off 788 00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:34.000 with the tokenization market where a lot of firm looking 789 00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.519 to put stocks and different assets, money market funds and 790 00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.880 so forth on the blockchain. Would you look to explore 791 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:44.880 investing in assets that are tokenized on the Avalanche blockchain potentially? 792 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.360 Yeah. Again, that's that's something that's been you know, a 793 00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:53.599 big point of discussion over recent weeks and months, particularly 794 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:55.559 as you know in the digital ass of treasury world. 795 00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.159 You know, I think that there is a lot of 796 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:01.719 discussions about like, you know, what is security and what 797 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:03.559 is not a security? And so if you do it 798 00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:05.599 on an L two is it is it actually security 799 00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.079 because it's not really decentralized Versus if you do it, 800 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.880 you know, in a broader ecosystem, you can you can 801 00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:15.199 demonstrate sufficient you know, decentralization and that would meet different 802 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.760 rules for the SEC Like I think, I think tokenization 803 00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:23.280 is inevitable and so you know, having worked in traditional 804 00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:25.400 finance for all you know the bulk of my career, 805 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:30.519 Like even today it is it is insane to me 806 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.360 how manual stock trading is right. And so, you know, 807 00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:39.440 I think that there are certain parts about you know, blockchain, 808 00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:44.039 moving things on blockchains that requires like a very specific 809 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.639 set of skills and make sure like you're very you're 810 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.280 being very diligent at how you how you manage things 811 00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.679 on chain, you know, because in in in you know, 812 00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.039 the trictional finance world, if you send Google to the 813 00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:59.760 wrong you know, broker dealer, like you're getting that, you're 814 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.360 that back, right, you know, like they will they will 815 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:06.440 reverse that back. And so the thing to me that 816 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:11.519 is shocking is that how dated the infrastructure is in 817 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.880 in traditional equities, you know, globally, and like just how 818 00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:18.800 much inefficiency there is there. And so I think just 819 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:23.320 from like a basic like just modernization of the underlying 820 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:28.440 structure and plumbing of of traditional finance like bond trading 821 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:31.440 and equities, it's like it's really just like this cobble 822 00:42:31.519 -->

00:42:34.320 together kind of plumbing. That's that it's existed for over 823 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.079 one hundred years. And like you have this opportunity to 824 00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.360 like start clean and like start you know, if you're 825 00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.239 going to build the best way for people to exchange value, 826 00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:45.239 you know, over a blockchain, Like, I think that is 827 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:49.559 a tremendous opportunity and an avalanche. The community has been 828 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.880 focused on toganization, you know, you know from from the outset, 829 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.440 that was kind of the the like the core motivation 830 00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.960 of launching of this chain. So yeah, I think I 831 00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:04.480 think that kind of antiquated plumbing mixed with like people 832 00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:07.280 want twenty four to seven everything, and so you know, 833 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.519 in many cases we are limited to the trading hours 834 00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:12.480 that we have in all of these different old money 835 00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:16.039 centers because of this plumbing, right, and so you know, 836 00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.400 the as people are going to demand a higher layer 837 00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:24.119 level of access and liquidity, it just seems inevitable that 838 00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:25.079 it goes to tokenization. 839 00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.760 Absolutely. You know something I forgot to ask you earlier 840 00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.920 as far as the purchasing of these tokens and the 841 00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.880 custody of them, which institution or platform are you going 842 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:36.320 to be using? 843 00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.440 So we're going to be using a myriad of different 844 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.559 of different solutions. At this point, everything we're using is 845 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.639 a qualified custodian. You know, in crypto, you know, we 846 00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.719 don't talk too much about custody. So what I would say, 847 00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:56.119 is like, we are expecting that the the regulators in 848 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.920 the US are going to demand, you know, a very 849 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.679 regulated solution, and so our strategy has been to utilize 850 00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.239 that as such. So everything we're using now are you know, 851 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.719 qualified custodians. And I would imagine over time, you know, 852 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.199 if we were to deviate from that, it would come 853 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:20.320 after you know, a pretty exhaustive, uh set of conversations 854 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.960 with you know, our regulators. 855 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:26.119 Oh for sure, Bart, great stuff. Looking forward to the 856 00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:28.920 future updates around the Avalanche Treasury co. But thank you 857 00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.000 so much for joining me. I got some wrap up 858 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.400 questions here for you. First, if you get great Drown metaverse, 859 00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:35.199 would the theme. 860 00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.679 Be, Oh boy, you know, I'm a big sports fan, 861 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.360 and so I have like a college sports team, and 862 00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.199 I have you know, professional sports teams in the US. 863 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:48.280 My my my son is a is a a big 864 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:52.079 Liverpool fan, and so you know what you're seeing and 865 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:54.599 particularly on Avalanche right now, one of the areas of 866 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.920 growth in Avalanche has been uh, you know, the FIFA 867 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.480 World Cup in twenty two twenty six. They're they're they're 868 00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.119 trying to build ticketing solutions and fan engagement on top 869 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.159 of Avalanche right now. So that so that you have 870 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.880 this situation where you know, you go to sell a 871 00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.880 ticket and some bot buys it up and it's a broker, 872 00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:14.320 and they post out two hundred and three hundred percent 873 00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.000 you know, above the price they paid with consumers paying 874 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:20.559 this excess price right And so you know, blockchain technology 875 00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:24.599 where you can obscure private, you know, customer information, but 876 00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:27.400 you can still verify that person is like a verified 877 00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:32.239 purchaser and user of the ticket. That that's one technology 878 00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:36.719 you know that that Avalanches is implementing with with with FIFA. 879 00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.719 And then fan engagement tokenizing you know, your rewards or 880 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.360 you know right now they have a there's a partnership 881 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.840 they have with the LSU football team, and so if 882 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.000 you go and you're using your card and you can 883 00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.519 like get you know points that a crew for like 884 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.519 a Tiger token, they call it a go token. You know, 885 00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:01.800 you can spend that on you know, memorabilia or like 886 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.079 you know, a team T shirt or something like that. So, 887 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.559 like if you could go into a metaverse where you 888 00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.800 combine the ability to purchase ticketing right in a safe 889 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:13.400 place where you know you're buying you know, the actual 890 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:17.400 ticket from someone that's verified, and then you're also you know, 891

00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:19.719 crewing all of these other tokens that you can use 892 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.320 kind of in a metaverse to to purchase memorabilia or 893 00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:27.519 other kind of you know, fan things, and you have 894 00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.159 this like world where I could go from like one 895 00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.559 team to another in a different sport, in a different league. 896 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.880 That to me would be like a pretty cool start. 897 00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.519 So there's probably people out there who could come up 898 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.920 with something a little bit more imaginative than that, but 899 00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.079 just being able to kind of go into one kind 900 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:44.960 of metaverse where I'm surrounded by, you know, all the 901 00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.199 sports teams and I can engage in them in a 902 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:49.960 in a different way. I can purchase tickets, I can 903 00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.119 purchase memorabilia in a safe way. That to me would 904 00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:54.079 be would be pretty cool. 905 00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:57.039 Yeah, as a sportsman myself, I would love that. So 906 00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:02.320 I'm all for that. Rapid fire questions, favorite food, steak, 907 00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:04.360 favorite musician or band. 908 00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.599 Over time, I'm I'm I'm a little i' a little 909 00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:09.280 older than a lot of people in crypto. I'm still 910 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:13.440 a pretty big youtwo fan. Oh yeah, favorite movie, favorite movie, 911 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.400 Shawshank or Goodwill Hunting. I'll go Shaw Shank. 912 00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:20.079 Yeah, Shawshank's great favorite book. 913 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.360 Oh there's a great book that I was given when 914 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:30.599 I first came into working in finance, and it was 915 00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.119 a book that was called Never Eat Alone. And it's 916 00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.960 a lesson that I've learned over the years of like 917 00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:38.400 when you know, people come in and they work really 918 00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:39.960 hard and they kind of like wake up, you know, 919 00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.920 thirty years later and they've wasted all this time. And 920 00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.519 so you know that nothing is replaced by by you know, 921 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:49.280 interpersonal kind of relationships. And so it's it's it's taught 922 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.199 me like a lesson over time to like the interactions 923 00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.800 you get from just having sitting down and having a 924 00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.719 meal with someone just kind of provides like a you 925 00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.480 know a wealth of different benefits. And so that was 926 00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:03.719 a book that I learned on, you know that that 927 00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:05.679 I learned from very early on in my career. 928 00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:08.239 And when you're not working, what are you doing for fun? 929 00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:13.400 I don't I'm working a lot. I spend time with 930 00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.199 my kids, you know, I have my kids sports and 931 00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:18.800 that takes up, you know a lot of my time. 932 00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.239 If I'm going to get out and do a little leisure, 933 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.559 like I'd like to be on the water, So like 934 00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:25.800 being out on a boat is great, or you know, 935 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.079 the you know, the few times where I can get 936 00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.119 you know, a four or five hour window, maybe I 937 00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.039 can squeeze in around the golf, but in general, you know, 938 00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:35.519 when I have some free time, I just kind of 939 00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.119 want to be out in a in a nice kind 940 00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.000 of stream place. So a lot of times that's kind 941 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:39.519 of on the boat. 942 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.159 Awesome, Bart, pleasure chatting with you. Looking forward to the 943 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.159 future updates. Thank you so much for joining me. 944 00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.599 All right, Tony, congrats on being an AVAX holder. 945 00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:48.840 Yeah for sure. 946 00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:49.559 All right,