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Warning.
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This episode may contain content that might be upsetting for some listeners.
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This can include violence, gore, suicide, grief, alt activity, disturbing rituals, drug use, and some sexual content.
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Listener discretion is advised.
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There is psychopathic, there is an associate.
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There is psychopathic, there is an associate according to the Before we get into the nitty and gritty.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Split Screen.
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My name is Kyle Clark.
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And I'm Angelica Clark.
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And this is a podcast where we do deep dives into the minds and lives of horror movie villains, suspense thrillers, and true crime stories.
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And I am a clinical therapist, and I will be psychoanalyzing main character or characters of whatever movie, book, or TV show we are discussing.
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And today we are going to be diving into Midsomar.
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As part of our continued A24 series, if you haven't been listening.
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Yes.
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And so Midsomar, it's a film that looks bright and beautiful on the surface, but underneath it is deeply unsettling.
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It's directed by Ari Aster.
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Midsomar flips the typical horror formula, though.
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Instead of darkness, shadows, and night scenes, almost everything happens in broad daylight.
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The sun barely sets, and that constant brightness creates a strange sense of exposure, like there's nowhere to hide.
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What a wild ride this movie takes you on, not just what's going on in front of you, but what's also going on in the background.
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What are your thoughts?
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Well, to be completely upfront, you know how I feel about the movie.
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Now, you know how I felt about it when I first saw it, and I absolutely hated it.
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Hated every minute of it, but the more I watch it, the more I like it.
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Yeah, you start picking up on things you didn't see before, and things start to make sense the more you dive deeper into what's going on.
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And so this movie at the center of the story is Danny.
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She's a young woman dealing with overwhelming grief after a family tragedy.
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She travels with her boyfriend Christian and his friends to a remote Swedish village to experience a rare midsummer festival.
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What starts as a cultural trip slowly turns into something more disturbing.
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When watching the film, as we see what happens to her in the beginning, uh horrific what what happens to this poor girl.
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And the more I watch it, the more I really This director has a way of really wanting to display an emotion, and that emotion is grief.
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He picks and chooses these actors and actresses because if an actor or an actress is doing their job correctly, you feel that emotion as the viewer.
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When Florence Pugh's character gets the news that her sister had taken her own life and took the lives of their mother and father, you can feel it.
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Yeah.
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And it the that feeling though is more prominent and hereditary.
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But what a what a crazy what is that, like the first twenty-five minutes?
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That's like the first ten.
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Man.
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Like within the first ten minutes, she's experiencing all of this at once.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, the movie has a lot more elements than just that.
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It's like one of the most interesting things about Midsommar is not just that it's a horror movie, it's also about relationships.
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Danny and Christian's relationship is already falling apart before they even arrive.
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Early on in the movie, before she finds out that her parents and her sister are gone, he's with his buddies trying to figure out how to get out of there.
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Yeah.
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There's a lot, I feel like, for you in this film particularly, you kind of have your pick of the litter.
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I know.
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Uh, and since we're kind of already on him, because the movie isn't really about him, no, it's about Danny.
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Let's talk about Christian for a minute.
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I hate to go back on this again.
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Because I feel like every time we talk, it's the same thing.
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He has narcissistic tendencies.
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At the at the beginning, you're kind of like, okay, no, he's just unhappy in his relationship, can't really blame him, and then you're kind of like, oh, it's really sweet that he's helping her and that he's being there for her, and he's continuing on the relationship, and then like as he continues it, you're like, Ugh.
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He's gaslighting.
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Like he gaslights her at every moment that he can, making her out to be the bad guy.
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He's probably told his friends several times just how clingy she is, how
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awful she is, makes her feel bad for things on purpose.
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Um continues to badmouth her when she's not around, and then you know, like whenever he forgot her birthday.
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And he tried to make it seem like he didn't forget her birthday.
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He had this whole cake ready, and oh, I didn't forget, like, tries to make her like she knows that he's a piece of shit.
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But then he continues to try and put this face on, like, oh, I'm the greatest thing that's ever happened.
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And like a a sidebar on that that quick little interaction that happened in the movie, he learned about her birthday from somebody who was not even associated with her friend group until he went out into the real world of from this cult that he comes from.
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Yeah, he even remembered her birthday.
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Yes.
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He remembered her birthday.
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And I think this time around when we were watching it, what did I say to you about Danny?
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Throughout this entire film, Danny is the victim, victim, victim.
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Yes.
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She has been put into some crazy circumstances that she did not at all manufacture for herself.
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He is awful to her.
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The entire movie, all she is trying to do is grief in the way that she knows how, which nobody knows how.
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We know that there's five stages, but we also know that there is not a time limit.
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On these stages, he pushes that and it makes him resent her even more than he already did, which then fuels that narcissism and that because like you said that he like gaslights her almost every time they're on screen together.
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Yeah.
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Like he is and and I don't know what what's keeping what would have kept her in that relationship for as long as she was.
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Maybe it was because of what happened to her, and that was the only like structure she can hold on to, which isn't good either.
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And not by what we can tell in the movie, she's not in therapy of any kind that we can tell.
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I did think it was interesting though that that she makes a point to say, like, when she's talking to Pelle and the friends about what her major is, and she talks about how she's a a psych major, and she's like, I know, that makes me crazy.
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Like I feel like that was kind of a little like you said, kind of an Easter egg for the whole for the whole movie.
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Yeah.
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But he also You know he's a narcissist because he doesn't just gaslight Danny.
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He does it everybody around him.
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He does it to all of his friends, like whenever he's trying to take Josh's idea.
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You mean Chidi Atagonia?
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Yes, Tidi Anagony, exactly.
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When he's try for those of you who don't know what that is, it's from the good place and you should watch it.
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It's fantastic.
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Um, anyways, uh he tries to take Josh's idea about his thesis and makes it to where tries to turn it around like, oh, well, I didn't know you were writing I just thought you were writing on the horca.
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R you're writing it on all these different countries, I'm writing it on the horca.
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So you can't say that I'm copying you because it's not the exact same thing.
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Like he he just gaslights everybody throughout the entire movie.
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Yeah.
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So that's how you know when someone's a narcissist is it doesn't just stop with one person.
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It'd be different if it was like he's unhappy with Danny, he's trying to be an asshole to her, so maybe she'll break up with him so that he has something else to complain about.
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But it's everybody he's like that too.
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Yeah.
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I feel like at the end of the movie that w his punishment is because of his narcissism.
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Like I feel like they're directly linked, and that's why he gets the punishment that he gets.
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Yeah, and I I think that's why the director focused on it as hard as he did, because it's this this film isn't just about a relationship between a man and a woman, isn't about a group of friends going out of town.
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This is this is about rituals.
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This is following a structure like that, being taken from normal society and being thrown into something else.
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On top of grief.
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And then let's put a little extra icing on the top of that cake with psychedelics.
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If you haven't seen the film, or if you have and you haven't noticed, if you pay real close attention to the background, after the scene where they initially take the first round of psychedelics, everything looks wavy.
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The whole background.
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So then it also, as the viewer, but this is another this is a twenty-four, not just Ari, but this is A24, makes you almost come up with your own version of an ending or your own version of an understanding of this film.
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Because is any of it really actually happening?
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Or
are they all crazily doped up on psychedelics?
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I mean, I personally think, unfortunately, this isn't just in someone's head.
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Well, and I think he does that on purpose because he's trying to in like incorporate you into the experience.
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Like they're taking these shrooms or psychedelics or whatever they are, but also it's trying to give you a kind of a taste of what they're experiencing so that you can kind of experience it with them.
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Well, yeah, and flipping the script, as apart from horror films usually take place at night.
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People are typically more afraid of the dark.
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No one's really ever done one where it's never dark.
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Yeah.
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And it's always daylight.
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And how do you make a horror film when the lights are on?
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And I mean, me personally, it takes a lot to spook me.
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I mean, this is what we do for fun.
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You would wouldn't believe what I do for fun that you don't see.
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V horror games, all kinds of crazy stuff.
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And this film didn't scare me.
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It unsettled me to the core.
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But that was my experience.
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To some people, it could be terrifying, other people might feel that way, and I will I almost feel like I should go find a degree in filmology because I I absolutely love directors almost as much as I love the actors who play in their movies.
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They are the storytellers.
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And what a story.
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Let's let's talk about Danny.
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Oh, Danny, Danny, Danny.
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There's a lot going on with Danny.
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Um you know, again, she loses her entire family all at once.
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And then she goes on this trip with her neg emotionally neglectful boyfriend, might I add.
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And then she experiences firsthand, she watches two people dive off of a cliff and watches that with her own eyes.
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And then she experiences you know, multiple people within the cult getting hurt, or her friends disappearing, and then her boyfriend cheating on her and some cult real like some cult ritual.
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Yeah, like she's just I think she she's obviously experiencing trauma, like severe trauma and grief.
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But it almost I feel like they almost want you to to feel like she's crazy.
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Like she is maybe even schizophrenic.
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Right?
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Because
I even asked you at the very beginning that when she first takes the psychedelics, I'm like, what is she saying to herself?
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Why is she saying, no, don't think that?
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No, don't it's almost like she has a voice in her head.
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Telling, like, almost like voices are talking to her.
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And that's enhanced with the psychedelics.
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Like there are people out there who there's there are several diagnoses, if you will, of drug-induced whatsoever, drug-induced depression, drug-induced schizophrenia or other psychotic disorders.
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And she very well could be experiencing that, but I I think that she was I think you were right with that, where she was kind of experiencing her own like suicidal thoughts.
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Like, no, don't think like that.
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It's your birthday.
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You're not gonna think about that on your birthday.
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Yeah, I mean, or thinking about her family.
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Yeah.
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And the one thing about psychedelics is depending on how much you take and what you're taking, is gonna depend on what happens to you.
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And some people can have a conversation like you and I are having right now, and nobody else is in the room.
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And so I wonder if if she was either thinking of I shouldn't take myself out of the equation, or I don't want to see them, I don't want to see them, I don't want to see them.
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And it's hard to tell.
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There are certain parts of the movie too where she is seeing her sister.
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Yeah.
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We don't ever see her parents, but she has she sees her sister at least one time in the mirror during a psychedelic trip.
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I do know that there are some studies where psychedelics improve certain things.
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I I haven't seen very many where psychedelics improve your mental stability when it comes to things that are already wrong in your head.
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If you're already diagnosed with something, especially something severe, psychedelics is probably the worst thing that you could be doing.
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If you are going into a high feeling a certain way, that way your feeling is going to be amplified by whatever you're taking, either it's alcohol or it's drugs.
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And so if she's taking psychedelics, one, we don't know what she's taking or how much she is taking, but we do know that her grief is not just grief, it is severe and out of control grief.
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Well I mean psychedelics essentially open up more we'll say doors in your brain.
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That's why you get this this high feeling, this sensation of feeling I mean you feel good, but that's why people hallucinate, that's why they get more paranoid.
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So, I mean, in reality i it could go either way.
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And if you're already if your brain is already in an altered state mentally, it's gonna could it's gonna control your mood even more.
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Yep.
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So the criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder you technically you know, back whenever PTSD was first, I guess, created or named, it was shell shock syndrome.
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So it was all it only applied to soldiers who were veterans.
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And then as we grew in our research, we're realizing, oh, people who are sexually assaulted, people who are abused can also experience the same thing.
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So that's when they changed it to PTSD.
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And the first criteria is either directly experiencing a traumatic event or even indirectly, which no, she didn't see her sister, she didn't see her parents, but the way that she found out about it was traumatic, so technically that would count as a trauma for her because of the way that she found out.
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And then, you know, she's avoiding everything, her mood's changing, she's not really eating, she's withdrawing from people, she's having nightmares, she is um, she doesn't trust people.
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I think it made things with Christian harder and other people.
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She's more hyper-vigilant about her surroundings.
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All of those things are symptoms of PTSD.
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However, you know, hallucinations and paranoia are not a part of PTSD, according to the book.
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However, why can those not be considered part of hypervigilance?
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I've said this before, I can't remember which episode it was that we were talking about, but I wholeheartedly believe if someone has experienced a significant enough trauma, they absolutely can experience hallucinations, paranoia almost similar to organic psychotic symptoms of schizophrenia or another psychotic symptom or syndrome, essentially.
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For sure.
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I mean, nightmares.
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Flashbacks.
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Flashbacks is a huge one.
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How do we know like her seeing her sister?
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That could be a flashback for her.
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You know, the paranoia is just hypervigilance because of everything that's happened to her.
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So I think it starts off with severe grief and trauma, but I do think at the very end she does have some sort of psychotic
break.
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Yeah, when she's covered in flowers, surrounded by people she doesn't know, all of a sudden now she's the center of attention, and she's literally watching a building burn down that her cheating boyfriend is in right now, and seems to have one hell of a laugh right there at the end.
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And I 100% agree with you.
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I think that with everything going on on top of the psychedelics and now adding all of this weird cult ritualistic experiences that she's having with these people, reality finally finally slipped for her.
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And I almost feel like that's how they get you.
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Yeah.
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Like now she can't go anywhere.
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She doesn't have anybody to go home to.
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Well, that's I mean, her extreme grief is used as fuel by the horga.
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Like I told you, she was originally not part of the group that Pelle was supposed to bring on this journey.
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She was an extra person.
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There was supposed to be nine sacrifices, she was the tenth person, so I think they were like, okay, well, what's her story?
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Pelle probably told them, well, she's grieving, her parents died, her sister died, her boyfriend's an asshole, you know, and they use that to kind of like bring her in.
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It's like Pelle talks about how him and his brother they were not born into that.
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They were brought in whenever their parents died in a fire, or what he says is a fire, and now doing more research, the fire that he's talking about, I'm pretty sure, is the fire in their sacred triangle chapel thing that Christian dies in.
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Yeah, so basically him and his brother were like Danny.
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Yes.
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They were stowaways that weren't supposed to be there, and mom and dad were part of the original nine.
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Yeah.
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Obviously, it seemed like they were too young to know exactly what that meant, or maybe they did.
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And they're so institutionalized and they're so programmed to this way of thinking that they're okay with it.
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And maybe they are.
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Well, I mean, his brother is he is his brother ends up being in the fire.
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Yeah, that's right.
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At the very end.
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Well, and then you notice too, at he's like, Oh, take this, it's for pain, and this'll make you not feel pain, and then the other guy, well, this will make you feel at peace or you know, feel no anxiety.
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And I I am I wholeheartedly believe that these two men sacrificing themselves willingly had so much faith in this cult that they really thought, Oh, I'm not gonna feel any pain.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.960
I'm doing this because this is my calling.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:46.559
And then he's I think he immediately realized, Oh shit, I can feel every s every single thing.
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.720
He told me I wasn't gonna feel any pain.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.680
So they have everybody, I mean, it's a cult.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:58.079
Everyone's brainwashed and now they're like they said, they re they recycle in the horga.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:11.200
Like they said, Oh, you know This lady's name, I can't remember what they said her name was, but we'll go with, you know, Julia, the old lady that ended up dying, and now the baby that's gonna be born is gonna be given the same name.
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.039
Like they have to replenish their society somehow.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:29.279
So why how are they doing that without bringing people in and feeding off of people like Danny who have nothing left and are already grieving and already vulnerable?
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:44.640
And then it was perfect that they just ended up being a couple, Danny and Christian, because now they can use him to help populate while also using her to get rid of him because of her grief and her trauma.
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:55.440
So whenever someone's experiencing trauma, they their judgment is already not a hundred percent there, especially whenever it's new.
00:22:55.519 --> 00:23:03.759
So they are already kind of grasping at straws, if you will, for anything, especially with grief.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:09.119
Like I need something to feel something that's not bad.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.880
These people made her feel part of something.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:30.960
They made her feel like you know, she could laugh, she could have fun, and that's what she needed in that moment, and they knew that and they fed off of that, and I think that is what brought her in, but it also fed everything else that led up to this point.
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:41.200
And you know, she I don't think it ever says how old she is, but if I had to guess, I would say they're like mid-twenties, because they're in college.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:42.960
Maybe early twenties.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.079
Yeah, I would agree.
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:52.160
And I mean, that's a good aid, that's pretty common age for psychotic breaks to happen.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:24:03.839
So I think honestly wouldn't surprise me if the entire thing is just one giant hallucination of hers, but because of her grief, and that's how she dealt with it.
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.240
I wouldn't be surprised at all.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.240
And that was kind of her rationalizing what happened to her.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.680
Like she already knew Christian was garbage human.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:20.720
She knew his
friends were the same way, and so for her, that's how she rationalized it was I'm gonna come up with this whole story in my head.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.519
And I tried to look it up, but it of course it wasn't telling me that.
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.559
But I would not be surprised if all of this was not really happening.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:36.319
It was all in her head, and that's why she's standing there at the very end with this big smile on her face because she's finally like, Yeah, I'm content with my own version of the story.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.960
Man, it was a great movie.
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:43.039
Everybody did a fantastic job, and the way it was filmed was incredible.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:47.440
I myself enjoyed it since the first time I've watched it.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:25:02.640
It gets better every time that I do, but that is what happens with A24 is the re-watchability of these films is incredible because of all of the little Easter eggs and things that you may not pick up on the first round that you watch them.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:14.559
That's why this is part of our process is watching the film, especially the day before or a couple of days before we record, is so that it it's it's fresh on our minds.
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:19.839
But well, like that pretty much sums up Midsomar, I think.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:29.359
Um really honestly, whi when it comes to Midsomar, it it's less about the jump scares and more about the emotional horror.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:30.079
Yeah.
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:48.160
It explores grief, isolation, toxic relationships, and the human need to feel seen and supported, even if that support comes from a very dark place like this cult that she our main character Danny finds herself becoming a part of.
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.200
And what a story.
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:53.279
Definitely what a story.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:55.759
Cannot wait for the next one.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.680
Not quite sure what that is yet.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:59.599
You guys will find out.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.039
And again, um, we have our Instagram, our email.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:05.599
If you know us personally, you know how to get a hold of us.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:18.559
If you have any ideas for a series or more A24 movies that you think we should, you know, jump on, please let us know.
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.279
Um as long as it's not hereditary.
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.240
I won't touch that I won't touch that movie with a ten foot pole.
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:25.599
I hate it.
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:32.640
But um we're always open to ideas, and if you want us to dive deeper, or again, it doesn't have to be a movie.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.400
We could do TV shows.
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:42.559
Um and I also want to reiterate, does not have to be horror necessarily.
00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:44.960
We are definitely open to other things.
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.000
We even talked about doing shameless, I think, at one point.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.000
So Yeah, and you could do an episode per character.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.559
Yeah.
00:26:52.880 --> 00:27:03.519
And but even that might be extremely fun, especially if people are watching a TV show or a series that they really enjoy, but they just really want to understand a little bit more.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:10.000
And I mean, this this podcast can literally go any direction.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:19.119
Everybody has something, and we're getting really good at figuring it out what it is.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:33.599
But uh, real quick to everybody at Hidden Vineyards venue who is listening to this podcast now.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:36.000
Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.160
I'll see you guys next weekend.
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:46.319
But I can't wait to get back in here and get to the next one.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:54.319
And I hope you guys are around and always feel free to let us know how we're doing, even.
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:58.240
Email us, message us on Instagram.
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:09.440
I might even think about developing a Discord at some point, especially when we start recording video for the podcast.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.960
Um that that will come in the coming months.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:22.720
We're getting ready to make a pretty serious move, and I would like to get that taken care of and settled before we start upgrading the studio.
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.720
So everybody, have a great week.
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:31.359
Please be safe wherever you're going and when you're listening to this episode.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:33.359
Have a good night, everybody.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:34.160
Thank you.