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Hello and welcome to Shoot the Hostage with me, Sarah, and my partner Dan. We're a movie podcast and we cover eight films per season on a specific theme. Now, we swear we chat major spoilers and we occasionally cover triggering topics. So, please do use listener discretion. If you like what we do and want to support us, consider hitting five stars on Spotify or maybe subscribing or even reviewing on your platform of choice. We also have a Patreon with a free tier for lineups and updates and two paid tiers with extra cont. content and early adree uploads. Right, on with the show. We are back for the fourth episode in your season of movies about after death or movies which are after death.
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The season is called after death.
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Welcome to the season. Right. Fresh tape.
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Welcome to season 17.
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Do you want me to take over? Be good.
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Go on.
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We're covering Joel Schemacker's Flatliners.
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We're in We're going to be inside Joel Schumacker's head.
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We are for flat sort of
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for an hour and 50 minutes.
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Sadly. Sadly,
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Joel Schemack is After Death.
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Yes. Postumous. He's postumous, isn't he?
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Yeah.
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But that's not why I chose it.
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Prolific. No. Why did you choose it?
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Um because I used to love this when I was a teenager and I was really curious as to whether it would stand the test of time.
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Uh spoiler alert, it didn't.
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No, I don't think I don't think it does either.
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No.
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No.
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But there is still things about it that I like.
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It's a weird film, isn't it? Like, I'm not going to I'm not going to get into the the thick of it just yet,
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but my main memory of this film is that God, everyone talked about it in the ' 90s, in the mid '9s, and I don't know why
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it was big.
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It was It was big. And it was on television all of the time.
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Y
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everybody's mom loved Flatliners
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and I sort of had a very strong memory of it or at least a few frames, a few like shots from the movie had stuck in my mind, but it's been 30 years since I've seen it. A good a good 30 years. And I didn't love it when I was a kid anyway. I thought it was proper boring.
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Did you?
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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My opinions will change very much.
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Oh, no.
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It's changed a bit. It's it's I've got a different view. I still don't like it very much, but it's it's for different reasons, I think, which will which we'll get into.
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I still sort of medium like it.
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Yeah, there's things that I do like about it.
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Yeah.
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But I think they're the things that are stopping me from going this is a turd fight. There's just a few things like Yeah, that's cool.
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Okay. Well, I'm intrigued to hear it.
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Um 1990. This is This is This movie. It's the I believe it's the fifth movie from 1990 that we've covered.
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Oh.
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Um any guesses?
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No, not one.
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Uh Kevin Bacon.
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Um Kevin Bacon.
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Yeah. Tremors.
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Tremors. Tremors.
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I'm going to
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ass blasters.
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Guess a police academy.
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No.
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No. Okay.
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No. Police Academy released in 1990. Well, I don't know. Maybe. I didn't check that one.
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I don't think so. I think it was 89 number six. And I think Moscow was
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94. Yeah.
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Believe there was a 5year difference between that. Yeah.
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What else then?
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Total recall.
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Of course. Oh, in my head that's so firmly in the 80s.
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Really?
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It's crazy.
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Oh, for me it's like it signif ies the the end of the 80s and we're taking everything that's beautiful and good from the 80s and um and then we're transitioning into the '9s
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giving it a little bit of 90s sensibility.
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Yeah, I like it. It feels like a a very obvious like line in the sand, like a demarcation point. It's like right this is a 90s starting now. We're bringing Paul Vhov. We're bringing Arie.
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Okay.
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Yeah. Um and I'm here for it. And Dean Norris.
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Don't forget Dean Norris.
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And Dean Norris. Yeah. And Robert Picardo as Johnny Camp. Um Gremlins 2 was 1990 which we covered.
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Of course, we just did that.
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Just last season.
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Crazy.
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Just a couple of months ago.
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Yeah,
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it is a crazy movie. You're right.
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But that also feels very 1990 because it was just like everything but the kitchen sink at that point, wasn't it?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, you're right. Oh my god.
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In a way, that's sort of that took everything that I hate about the 80s and made a joke out of it.
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Yeah, I get it.
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Yep. And hustle culture and corporations and all of that stuff. Um, did Gremlins 2. We we spoke about that film funnily enough in the Gremlins 2 episode. Um
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we do do that.
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What?
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We do do that.
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We do do
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we do do
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do you do
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do
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I do sometimes? I do.
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What else was that? It
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uh one more. It's one of yours.
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Just tell me.
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Clive.
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Clive B.
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Oh, Night Breed. f***.
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Yeah, that's why I wanted you to get it cuz it's one of your favorite movies.
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But again, very 80s coded.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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But but yeah, it fits with the whole like, oh, you're chucking everything in here.
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Yeah. The 1990 was a lot, wasn't it?
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It was. It was a very lot. Yeah, it was a much a much a lot.
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A much a lot.
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It was. Um, so the budget for this was 26 million USD
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and the box office, I thought it would be more, but it was 61 million. I thought it would be more because it had like everybody famous at that time in it and also Oliver Platt.
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I love Oliver Oliver Platt. Leave him alone.
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I'm not Look, I I think this movie actually stars some of the greatest actors of their generation and also William Baldwin.
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Yeah,
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I think Oliver Platt's great.
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Yeah.
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And he's very memorable in this.
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Okay.
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William Baldwin less so. Can you believe that in the big 2026, we live in a timeline where William Baldwin is maybe the best Baldwin. Can you believe that?
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Um, it's it is pretty wild. Yeah,
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cuz Steven's gone mental and Alex killed someone.
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Have you he wasn't he? I mean, let's Yeah, let's not go there. Um, yes, Stevens. Have you seen some of his his um social media?
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I've heard about it. He's off his rocker, isn't he?
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He's fully lost the plot, man.
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He's gone all Randy Quaid.
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Yeah, he's very Randy equated co. Yeah. The Baldwins just a normal family.
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Yes.
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The cast as you've uh you've mentioned that you feel that it's some of the greatest actors of their generation in this. Who do you who is that then?
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Julia Roberts is amazing.
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Julia Roberts. Yes, I 100% agree. Julia Roberts.
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She's incredible.
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And and that that's it.
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Some of the biggest stars of their generation.
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Thank you cuz I love Keith Slin like I I I I love Young Guns basically and I suppose he was just around when I was growing up in a lot of movies that I liked when I was growing up.
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Lost Boys.
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Lost Boys is amazing.
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Obviously another Joel Schumacker.
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Joel Joel Schumacker. Yeah, probably my favorite Joel Scheacker.
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Agreed. Agreed.
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Um but I've never really considered Kefir Sland an incredible, amazing, talented actor. I just
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He's a good actor.
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Is he? I've just never thought
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I think he's a solid character. Yeah,
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I'm I'm honestly I'm not saying that I don't think that he is. I've just never thought about it.
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I don't think he was just coasting on nepotism. No, I think he was I think he was good.
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Nepot. Has he got a famous famous daddy?
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Um you might have heard of Donald Dald Southerntherland.
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Oh, Donald Southern. Yeah. Yeah. So, famous papa. Famous papa. And he's in this movie. I don't know if my I mean I would say Oliver Plat is my favorite um character in this. Doesn't get that much to do.
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I think Julia Roberts is great in this and Kevin Bacon. I like Kefir Southerntherland, I think, does his job.
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Well, he was always the d*******.
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Yeah, but I hate his character. That doesn't do that any favors. And then there's there's William Baldwin and the the the the just absolutely horrible things that that character does with no f****** resolutions.
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Yeah, look, we're going to talk about that. Believe We'll get to that. Yeah.
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Uh, what's your favorite Joel Scheme movie?
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Oh, Lost Boys.
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You know, the Lost Boy. Why do you say about that? The Lost Boys.
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Lost Boys.
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Lost Boys.
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I don't do this. I don't know if it's like an autism thing, but people have always taken the piss out of the way that I pronounce specific words.
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Apparently, I say Saturday. Really weird.
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Say it again.
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Saturday.
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Saturday.
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Saturday.
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No, it sounds all right to me.
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Or walnut.
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Walnut.
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Walnut.
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Walnut.
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Walnut. Walnut.
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Walnut.
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I would say
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that might just be a northern thing.
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Yeah, it could be.
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I would say walnut.
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Walnut.
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Walnut.
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I think
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you don't pronounce the T. You just go nut.
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Nut.
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Yeah.
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Wnut.
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Like that.
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Walnut.
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Yeah. Join us next week for more nut.
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So, Lost Boys, you're you're a fan of um
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the Gerard Butler Phantom of the Opera movie, aren't you?
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I am. Yeah. I'm one of the few.
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Yeah.
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But I I was a big fan of the musical before the movie came out.
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Andrew Lloyd Weber.
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Yeah. I don't love Andrew Lloyd Weber.
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Who does?
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Some people,
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I guess.
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Musical theater people.
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They must cuz he's rich.
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Yeah. Um I would say that was the only musical that I really cared for.
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Um but I also love the Universal Monsters Phantom of the Opera. I just love the story.
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Yeah.
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So that's the excuse I'm giving.
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I would say out of all of the musicals that I'm aware of, I must surprised that that would be the one that you would lean towards. And I have seen a handful of musicals and they've never been my
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three.
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Yeah, I've seen like three, but I would probably say this is my favorite one out of the ones I've seen as well.
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I've actually seen the Joel Scheme one. Okay.
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And I thought it was all right.
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Like I didn't mind it.
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Um as musicals go.
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Yeah. It's a decent film as long as you don't mind people bursting into song every now and again.
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Well, that's my problem with musicals. They're just not for me.
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Yeah.
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But like I was able to tolerate I was able to get through that one.
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Yeah.
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Um It was fine. Um, I would have preferred it if Gerard Butler was like shooting at planes or something or, you know, punching.
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He's doing that in every other movie that he's in.
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Yeah, I know. And they're great.
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Just let him do something different.
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Let him wear a mask and squirtle around.
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No, let him do Geosttor Storm, too.
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You saying Geio Storm?
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No.
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Too busy watching Phantom of the Opera.
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Stop getting
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Well, now you've sold it.
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Um, the writer of this film is uh someone called Peter Farardi.
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Okay. What else has Peter Farardi done?
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Uh well, there was a a reboot of um Flatliners which is credited as story on.
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I have seen that one sadly.
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And also um have you seen the the remake?
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I have not.
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Oh, you haven't? Wow.
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Diego Luna Elliot Page. Y
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No, I haven't. But I know
I know roughly the premise. It's about near-death experiences.
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I've got a hunch. It's a hunch. Yeah, it's not good. And also, there was another film called Pathology that was effectively the same premise that came out before it, and that was s*** as well.
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So, just just maybe leave this premise alone.
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We're we're really struggling to to nail near death experiences,
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apparently. So, do
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you know, I think I I think I've got an idea why. I think it's because no, can no one relate to that concept because they're not dead yet? So, is this only is this only a concept you can revisit once you've died?
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Well, I I think so. I think the concept somewhat works in this because because of what they do with it. Like I think nobody can really relate to a near near-death experience apart from a tiny percentage of people
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people who have actually gone through near death experiences.
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Yes. Yeah. Um and and published findings of which there are many online.
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But something we have all experienced and which I talked about at the the top of the season is loss. grief
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and kind of wishing that maybe you could have done something differently or seen that person one last time or whatever else. Um, and I think they do a somewhat decent job of that. I mean, like Julia Roberts is maybe the only decent person in this movie and and they do a reasonably good job of kind of making her our proxy.
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Yeah.
237
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In that regard.
238
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Yeah.
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But otherwise, it's nonsense. Yeah, it is. It is a bit. Um I I think the Gigi Roberts section of this movie is is really the only part that I think is mildly interesting
240
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in terms of the the characters um arcs and stories and what's actually happening to them.
241
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I don't know.
242
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And everyone else I'm like what?
243
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I'm highly entertained by a small boy beating up Keith Southerntherland various points throughout this movie.
244
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Yeah. Um we maybe we'll we'll we'll come back to this to to this chat.
245
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Okay. Um cuz I before um I mentioned Peter Farardi but I forgot to tell you what else he's written is significant because there's a film that you really like called The Craft.
246
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Oh, he wrote The Craft
247
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apparently. So yeah.
248
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Oh, cool. Nice one, Peter.
249
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Which is about a um
a catering service in the film industry.
250
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Yes. Craft craft services.
251
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That's right. Yeah.
252
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Uh Salem's Lot 2004. He's credited credited as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's got Rob Low in it.
253
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Oh yeah, the miniseries. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was decent.
254
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Okay. Um, I haven't seen it since, but I remember it being decent.
255
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I'll say that
256
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,000
good. I will probably not get round to that.
257
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Yeah.
258
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Um, the DP on this and one of the reasons why it looks
259
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f****** gorgeous,
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is um, Yandon.
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Yan.
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Yan, who obviously is the director of uh, the movie Speed, which is the um,
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inspiration of our our name.
264
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Yes. Is where our name comes from.
265
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He also directed Twister.
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Yes.
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Which is is a film that will probably appear on the lineup at some point.
268
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Oh, you're going to pencil that in.
269
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Most likely chosen by me when I do my season of wind.
270
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Wind. Okay.
271
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And I can put
272
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Can I Can I please request that we cover Demon Wind?
273
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Yeah. Okay. Right. Is that about a like um a curry house that's haunted or
274
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No. No.
275
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You you It's It's so bad that it's very enjoyable. I'll say that.
276
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Okay. Yeah, we can put that on.
277
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Okay. All right. I didn't know Yander Bon directed um Tomb Raider 2: The Cradle of Filth.
278
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Did he? The Cradle of Filth.
279
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,000
Um yeah. No, I don't think I knew that.
280
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What else did he do? I know the big ones, obviously.
281
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Oh, I I would say his most wellreceived film is something called Speed 2: Cruise Control.
282
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Mhm. Which I own on VHS for some reason.
283
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Why do you own I'm glad that you said you own it, not we own it.
284
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I thought I would let you off.
285
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I own Speed.
286
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,000
Yeah.
287
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,000
But not I don't own Speed Too.
288
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,000
Um we own we own Speed 2 on VHS because um the listing was for both tapes.
289
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I wanted Speed and it was like two quid for both.
290
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,000
Okay. It's cuz no one else f****** want Speed.
291
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I know.
292
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Did you hear about the bloke that it was a few years ago now that it was his mission to buy every VHS copy of Speed 2 on the planet? Or not Speed of Of Speed One.
293
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I was going to say if he wants another one of Speed Two, he's welcome to it.
294
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:54,000
Speed two would be really easy to cons. acquire all of them because you just go to the tip. Just go to the tip in every county,
295
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,000
you'll find all copies of Speed Too.
296
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Um but yeah, and obviously Jand Deon um was a DP at this time, 1990, just before that uh having worked on Die Hard. So just like action helped shape I think it's like him, Tony Scott and um and the Brookheimrs and Don Simpsons and that sort of crowd, those producers sort of helped shape how action movies look over the next 10, 20 years, I think.
297
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Yeah.
298
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Um, and I think I I feel like that Yandon is just someone that the the people just don't talk about enough. I think like he's not done I I think just with speed, it's such a monumental gamechanging action film, which is really stupid,
299
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but it's just somehow so good.
300
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Yeah.
301
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:01,000
And I don't think he gets enough credit for making that cuz it could have just been really s***.
302
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:02,000
Yeah.
303
00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:03,000
And I think it's all in the directing, obviously the acting and stuff as well and the writing and how attention works, but to to translate that onto the screen, I think
304
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from page to screen, it could have gone very differently.
305
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,000
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It just hit that the right kind of balance of stupid, cheesy, and just cool action.
306
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,000
Yeah.
307
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,000
But uh we did, you mentioned Police Academy earlier, didn't you?
308
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,000
Yeah, I often do.
309
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,000
I don't know why.
310
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The edi the editor of this movie was um the editor on the first Police Academy movie. Robert Brown.
311
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Oh,
312
00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:12,000
what an illustrious career.
313
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And um producer Michael Douglas who was in he was in a film called Jewel of the Nile.
314
00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:14,000
That's the only thing you'd know him from.
315
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,000
Yep.
316
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,000
But yeah, obviously after this, few years after this, he did um work with
Schumacer again in Falling Down.
317
00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,000
Yeah, he did. Yeah. So, he must have got on got on the set like, "Oh, we made we made millions of dollars. We must work together again. Okay.
318
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,000
It's how these deals work.
319
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,000
Yeah.
320
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,000
Um, what's your ke for Southernland is someone we've spoken about before in the uh Freeway Show
321
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and Stand by Me briefly.
322
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:22,000
And Stand by Me and Dark City.
323
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,000
Of course.
324
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:24,000
This is our fourth Ke movie.
325
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,000
Crazy.
326
00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,000
Yeah.
327
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:27,000
I had no idea.
328
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,000
I suppose we're getting to that point now, aren't we? Where is like I'm going to have to stop saying, do you know how many times we've done this milk this person's films? Because it's every time it's just going to be like four or five. Um, Julia Robert. I believe is this the first Julia film that we're doing.
329
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,000
Okay.
330
00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,000
I might get Erin Brockovich in a season. In fact, I almost Well, I toyed with the idea of putting that in in true crime.
331
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Yeah.
332
00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:32,000
But it felt a bit sort of true crime adjacent.
333
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:33,000
Yeah. You could do an environmental season. You could do like a lawyers season or something or Yeah.
334
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,000
Legal eagles.
335
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,000
Yeah.
336
00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,000
True stories or, you know, there's a bunch of things you could get that into and I'd be I'd be up for covering that as well.
337
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:37,000
Oh. Well, What else we got? Oh, Kevin. We haven't even mentioned Kevin Bacon.
338
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Yeah, we have. We mentioned him because he was in Ass Blasters.
339
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Bone.
340
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,000
What?
341
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,000
Kevin Bone.
342
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,000
Oh, yeah. He's Who plays a character called David Labracio.
343
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,000
Labracatio. Yeah, of course he does.
344
00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,000
He might be my second favorite character in this.
345
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,000
I think so, too. I I because I didn't really like the others, you know. Oliver,
346
00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,000
we're not really supposed to.
347
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,000
I like I It's Oliver Platt.
348
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:48,000
Yep.
349
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000
And then it's Julia Roberts. Oh, Oliver Platt's your number one.
350
00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:50,000
Yeah, cuz I just like Oliver Platt.
351
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Yeah.
352
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:52,000
And then um
and then Kevin Bacon. Okay.
353
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,000
And and the reason I put Kevin Bacon at the bottom of that is just because
354
00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,000
he was sort of a bit nothing like he was he was great and I I like particularly this came out in the same year as Tremors. He's Valentine and you know fun and stupid and it's a
355
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,000
Oh, he's a lot more memorable in that one. Yeah.
356
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:56,000
Yeah. But this one he's a completely different character and and I like seeing that difference. However, it was such a pain such a underwritten character and this the demons that he faces is just stupid. Like it's
357
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it's um
358
00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,000
oh you bully you called someone a name.
359
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Yeah, I get it. Okay, that's something that you feel bad about and you feel guilty for and you should
360
00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,000
Yeah.
361
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,000
Um but ultimately the the the part in this movie which I suppose is is supposed to be scary or or like some sort of horror. He's on a train. It goes dark and then a child says like your fart smell bad s*** bomb. on.
362
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She doesn't even say that.
363
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,000
Okay.
364
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,000
Briefly turns into George Carlin.
365
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,000
Yeah. I mean, I don't I mean, I don't love the idea of being haunted, but if I'm going to be haunted, then I would rather have a ghost that just stands there and swears.
366
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,000
Says rude words. Yeah.
367
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,000
Fine.
368
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:08,000
Especially if it's a child, like, come on. I could take you in a fight. I ain't scared of that ghost.
369
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,000
Yeah. I ain't scared of no ghost.
370
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:10,000
Yeah.
371
00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,000
But it did give me hope that maybe one day on their deathbeds, um, my childhood bullies will come to regret their actions.
372
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:12,000
Yeah, maybe they'll do a near-death experience and you'll haunt them.
373
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:13,000
Maybe.
374
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:14,000
But I don't Okay, so they go into the the they they K Sand's like, "Really want to kill myself today?"
375
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,000
Mhm.
376
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,000
Cuz I want to prove that there's an afterlife.
377
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,000
Yes.
378
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:18,000
So he kills himself. He proves he doesn't he can't prove that there's an afterlife. That you can just say, "I saw some things." And I don't understand how that research is any different than the research that already exists.
379
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,000
It is It absolutely isn't. They're just
380
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,000
The only difference is that they're doing it intentionally and most other people who have near-death experiences is because of like a natural disaster or a car wreck or something or maybe a survived suicide attempt
381
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,000
and he's just like, "Let's do this today." Well, okay. But Julia Roberts has already been collecting stories of people's near-death experiences, so how is yours any different?
382
00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,000
Yeah,
383
00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,000
absolutely. No, you make a really good point, and I'm about it on you.
384
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,000
Yeah. So, so that kind of baffled me a little bit cuz okay, it's a controlled environment. They they're trying to they're they're recording it, you know, that's their evidence, I guess, and then um they flatline. It's very clever that they got that that title um in there, but it essentially he's just coming back and going, "It's real."
385
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:25,000
Yeah,
386
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,000
it's real. Promise. And they were going Okay,
387
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,000
now I want to do it.
388
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:28,000
Now I want to do it. Why?
389
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:29,000
Yeah.
390
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,000
They're all like, "All right, I believe you.
391
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,000
All right, because a doctor has said it." Mhm.
392
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,000
Okay, fair enough.
393
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,000
Carries more weight. They're not even doctors. They're students.
394
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,000
They're student doctors. They're 38-year-old student doctors.
395
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,000
Um, and why is William Baldwin there?
396
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,000
What does he want to contribute?
397
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,000
Nothing.
398
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:38,000
Misogyny.
399
00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:39,000
Yeah,
400
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,000
that's about it.
401
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,000
Well, but so um so Nelson ke Um Kevin Ke ke Ke kefir Sland he
402
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,000
Kevin Kevin
403
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,000
he's he's hellbent on researching the afterlife and also like I don't know I suppose his motivation is his experience when he was a kid and being involved in essentially killing a child. So that's kind of his motivation but that's not revealed until sort of later. So the whole way through the film you're like why are you doing this?
404
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,000
Well to why do you want to because he wants the prestige I guess.
405
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,000
Yeah but that's that to me is why I didn't have too much trouble sort of buying the idea that they would go about this because
406
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,000
a lot of doctors, particularly surgeons, have a bit of a god complex. They're a bit they can become a bit self-important. Um, so that bit didn't bother me.
407
00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:47,000
But but but what what bothers me is that I and I guess I'm just sort of repeating myself really and
that what what's what new are you doing? Because they couldn't they didn't have evidence. They can't bring I suppose they brought back a ghost with them, but they didn't know. No one else could see it. So how the f*** do we know that just not mad like there's they they didn't have any apparatus any they didn't measure anything apart from the fact that they had died and then they had come alive again.
408
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,000
Well, it's
409
00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,000
and then the rest of it is anecdotal.
410
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,000
Yeah, of course it was. It's always going to be anecdotal. It's the same same thing as like alien abduction. You can stand in the middle of a field going, "Please abduct me." And if they abduct you and you come back and it was intentional, then everybody else still only has your word to go off when you're like, "Yeah, and then they stuck this thing up my bum."
411
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:51,000
Do you know? me.
412
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000
Did they do that?
413
00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,000
Probes. Yeah.
414
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,000
You're going to write on the se on the roof of the house now. Please object me.
415
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:55,000
One of the bum tails.
416
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,000
I don't know. Every time grays I was going to say every time grays are like portrayed in TV and film, they've got massive fingers. So, I don't think I'd want that.
417
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:57,000
Do aliens have lube? That's the question.
418
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,000
Probably. Yeah.
419
00:06:58,000 --> 00:06:59,000
Yeah. Okay. Well,
420
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,000
I don't know if it's lube, but they generally have a lot goo like
421
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:01,000
probably some like green goo lying around that works, you know, as long as it's not toxic.
422
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,000
Yeah.
423
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,000
You know, as long as it helps ease things along, that's that's need. Yeah.
424
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:04,000
I'm glad we have these important conversations.
425
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:05,000
Well, nobody else is going to, are they?
426
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,000
No, I don't think they are. For good reason.
427
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,000
But I think I'm just I'm angry at the the Nelson character cuz I'm like you so much risk
428
00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,000
for what reward? You're not doing anything differently unless
429
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,000
that character is just like I just need to know for myself. And I didn't really get that. That's just me thinking about that. I didn't get that from the performance. And maybe it would have been better if he wasn't a doctor. If they weren't doctors. Um like it was more clear that they would just wanted to experience this for themselves.
430
00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,000
Yeah. I mean, I guess I guess they wrote them as doctors because they have access to the equipment for resuscitation and all of that stuff.
431
00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,000
There's a there's a there's a there's there's a practical reason that they're doctors. I understand.
432
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Yeah. But it might have made more sense if they weren't because doctors also would understand the risk of being dead for
433
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,000
Yeah.
434
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,000
You know,
435
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,000
well, the risk of being dead is that you might stay
436
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:16,000
you stay dead. Yeah.
437
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,000
If the wind changes
438
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,000
becomes permanent.
439
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,000
Yeah.
440
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,000
Exactly. So yeah, if it was just lay people then that might have um made a bit more sense, I guess.
441
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,000
So my biggest my first biggest problem was like why are you all doing this? Ke Southern does it and then everyone else is like oh need to do it.
442
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,000
Make me dead now. I would say that Julia Roberts character is probably the only one. Rachel, is she called Rachel? I think she's probably the only one who actually has a a decent motivation and that's sort of because she's
443
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haunted by the death of her dad and sort of stricken with guilt that maybe she caused it.
444
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,000
Yeah.
445
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,000
Either directly or indirectly. Um and she was sort of desperate to figure out if there was something good after death,
446
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,000
if he was at peace. Yeah. And and like you say, she felt a lot of guilt. about that too.
447
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,000
Mhm.
448
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,000
I I think this for me it's a frustrating one because there's there's something there. There's something interesting there.
449
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:29,000
Yeah.
450
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:30,000
Like I I I and obviously it's shot beautifully.
451
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,000
Oh, it looks incredible. We can't state that enough.
452
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:32,000
Yeah. It looks really great and I like the score as well, particularly in the first half.
453
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,000
James Newton Howard.
454
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:34,000
James Newton Howard. Yes.
455
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,000
And I really really like the score at the start, especially when we're doing all of the setup and like laying the groundwork for this film is I get I got really excited going I might love this film
456
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,000
and then I didn't. So that was annoying.
457
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:37,000
Yeah.
458
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,000
But yeah, the way that it looks, the all of the different colors they used, a lot of practical solutions to things makes it look unique.
459
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,000
Yeah.
460
00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,000
And I loved that.
461
00:07:40,000 -->
00:07:41,000
But then we had then we got into the story stuff and the premise the idea of them having the near-death experience and then bringing something back with them I thought was interesting. And what's your take on what they were? Were they ghosts or were they just manifestations of their guilt?
462
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:42,000
Um, I viewed it literally. I think I don't think it was like a manifestation as such. I mean, particularly because Kefir Sutherland's character has physical injuries that I don't think he gave to himself, but also I don't think the film is smart enough to do anything. anything other than the literal, if that makes sense. That sounds like such a dig, but it's not like a it's not a cerebral movie, even though it tries to pretend to be at points.
463
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,000
Yeah, I think I I was sort of struggling with that. I was thinking about it, like are they are they ghosts? Are they actually the spirits of the people or are they manifestations of the memories of the people?
464
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,000
Yeah. I mean, it's not literally ghosts because obviously the girl
465
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:45,000
when he's still alive.
466
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,000
Yeah. Exactly.
467
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,000
Yeah. Um, but I don't know like when you're talking about afterlife, I can let a lot lot of stuff go because obviously as humans we experience time in a linear way. I imagine if there is an after afterlife, I imagine that goes away and you can probably revisit things whenever you like. So the fact that you're
468
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,000
uh alive now doesn't mean that you're alive at another point.
469
00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,000
I hate this.
470
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,000
So you're you're both dead and alive, which would obviously fit um into the box with the cat.
471
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,000
So ah shroing is Sarah,
472
00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,000
I think if you if you do take the notion that they're all ghosts, it makes William Baldwin's story line much darker.
473
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:53,000
Oh my god. Yeah.
474
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,000
Like not only did he film these women, he murdered them afterwards.
475
00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:55,000
Yeah. And but but you know, maybe maybe we're doing something a bit more interesting then. Maybe that's that's
476
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,000
I wouldn't I wouldn't hate that, you know, but then you have to give him his comeuppance properly if you do that. Like he gets off so lightly. Oh, he gets dumped by Hope Davis. Oh, no.
477
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,000
Yeah. No. Like, if you're going to include that, then that's got to be the movie. Like, I probably out of all of the what we saw, I would say probably I would prefer them to expand on a Julia Robert serial killer.
478
00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,000
But if but yeah, if they're going to include the William Baldwin and all of the heinous stuff that he did, then let's do that. The Doctor turns out to be a serial killer and has been a a sex pest with all these women.
479
00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,000
Yeah.
480
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,000
Um but for some they just included it Uh because he likes to film women secretly. Um and
481
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,000
sex crime, by the way.
482
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,000
Yeah. Yeah. And then he's haunted by the uh the them, I suppose. But like what's what's going on? Because he's he he goes to walk into his apartment and then it's just a ghost going, "Oh, hello, William Baldwin.
483
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000
Naughty boy."
484
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,000
Yeah. Do you Yeah. He shouldn't have done that. He's like, "Right, see."
485
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,000
Oh, no. Visions of sexy women all over my apartment. How terrible.
486
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,000
Yeah. It's not a punishment, is it? It's like stay right there. I'll get my camera.
487
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:07,000
Yeah.
488
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:08,000
And then it's just not resolved at all. You get
489
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,000
Yeah. And we never revisit that.
490
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,000
Three of the characters are resolved and it's like they just forgot about I think that they just had that there and they're like we don't know how to resolve like what's it just felt so random.
491
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,000
A giant woman comes in out of nowhere and chops his cock off. That's his ending.
492
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000
It's so unnecessary for it to be there. I think you've got enough in all of the other stuff.
493
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,000
It's bizarre. It's really bizarre and it absolutely doesn't work in a postmeto world. No, definitely not. It did work then and it doesn't work now.
494
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,000
Yeah. Well, I mean the the crimes that that works, but the fact that he doesn't really suffer any repercussions because of them doesn't work.
495
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:15,000
I see what you mean.
496
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,000
And also Oliver Platt severely underused. He's the only one who doesn't actually flatline.
497
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,000
Yeah. And I I don't mind that cuz you know I'm I'm team Platt. I'm I'll be like do you sorry you No, I'm not going to do that. I don't need to be dead.
498
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:18,000
I'm actually doing everything I can to not be dead. Yeah,
499
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,000
to be honest,
500
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,000
I don't mind not knowing what happens after we die.
501
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,000
Well, the way I see it is that we're all going to find out eventually.
502
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,000
What's the hurry?
503
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,000
Like just be f****** as humans, isn't it? We want it now.
504
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,000
Well, it's know right now.
505
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,000
It's sort of making me think of our discussion um about Martyrs
506
00:08:25,000
--> 00:08:26,000
um last week.
507
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,000
No, but I mean the whole premise is them trying people to find out what happened.
508
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,000
Spoilers for Martrs.
509
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:29,000
The How far down this road do we want to get?
510
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:30,000
s***. Okay. Um, yeah, there's
511
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,000
Should I just beep that bit?
512
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,000
Yeah, beep it. That's That's a great idea. Yeah,
513
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:33,000
nobody will ever know.
514
00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,000
Um, but yeah, there's a lot of very very very similar themes.
515
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,000
The only real difference is that in Flatliners, it's voluntary.
516
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,000
Yeah,
517
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:37,000
you can't really bleep that. Um,
518
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,000
yeah, I can.
519
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:39,000
I'm just digging my own grave at this point
520
00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:40,000
cuz the people that have listen to that show will know and have seen Even if they haven't listened to that show. If they've seen Marts, they know what we're talking about.
521
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,000
Yeah. Go and watch Marters, though. What are you doing with your life? It's incredible.
522
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,000
I I mean, watch it if you want, but don't feel like you need to.
523
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,000
It's better than Flatliners.
524
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:44,000
I Yeah, I agree with you, but what would I what would I watch on a Tuesday?
525
00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000
Yeah, that's not that's not what I said, though, is it?
526
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:46,000
It' be reluctantly be flatliners. Um Yeah. What were we talking about? Oliver Platt.
527
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,000
Oliver, thank you. I love Oliver Platt. Have I mentioned that? I thought he was funny in this. I I I thought there was a bit too much comedy in this as well. It felt like
528
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,000
Yeah.
529
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:49,000
Every other scene felt like an opportunity for someone to do a quip and I just thought this is not a quick time movie. I understand it's a Joel Schemacker film and he wants to have fun.
530
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,000
Yeah. There's going to be an element of the mainstream of course.
531
00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:51,000
Yeah. But there was just too much of it and and and a lot of it didn't work as well. It's like you should have cut that joke. You should have cut that joke. Some of it I thought was brilliant. My favorite part was when they first they they did the first experiment when Nelson went under
532
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:52,000
and he said, "Look, this is what we're going to do. You're all going to kill me." Oh, by the way, we're doing this tonight, but this is the first time I'm explaining to you how to do this. You should have done a dress rehearsal or something, maybe. Yeah, more prep.
533
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,000
Um, so he says to everybody, "Look, we're going to do this tonight. Um, I have written this document that absorbs involves you of all crimes in the event that I'm dead for longer than I want to be, which wouldn't stand up and go.
534
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,000
I absolutely would not.
535
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:55,000
No. And but I like that the Oliver Platt character acknowledges that. And I think it's really funny when Kefa Southerntherland starts to go under. You cut to Oliver Platt and because there's that really beautiful set where they're they're doing this in this like abandoned warehouse thing.
536
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,000
Oh yeah, that looks great. Like the lighting from below
537
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:57,000
and some coming through the the windows and stuff. But I love when Keifa Southerntherland's going under for the first time. You cut to of a plat and he's at the only source of light that he can find at the window like properly trying to look at this look look at this um this this document that that Nelson's written and that just killed me. I thought that was so pun. Um I thought that was really funny and I I I gather that's probably some improv I would guess or like maybe not like I'm going to do this right now but it feels like an actory thing to do. Feels like a very Oliver Platt thing to do because he's supremely talented and underrated.
538
00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,000
Um and I can't wait to talk about him in something I've got coming up next season.
539
00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,000
Oh. Oh,
540
00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:00,000
I've decided my next season already.
541
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,000
Okay.
542
00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,000
You know this. I've told you.
543
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,000
I know what the theme is, but I don't know what the film is.
544
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000
Oh, he's he's great.
545
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,000
Oh, okay. Interesting.
546
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,000
Um,
547
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,000
yeah, I think you're right about the quippiness and and the quirkiness as well. Like, why have we got Kevin Bacon? I'm too cool to use doors. I'm going to repel down a building.
548
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:08,000
What?
549
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:09,000
What the f***? For what purpose, Kevin?
550
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000
Oh, lord. Cuz that's when that's when Nelson's like, I'm putting a team together, right? On the night that I'm going to die, I'm going to find someone to help me
551
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,000
the day off.
552
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:12,000
And who better than this person that's abs sailing out of the dorm room.
553
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:13,000
Okay, you seem like a good choice. I guess I guess the idea is that you really can only get people that are on the fringes like scientists that are sort of don't play by the rules and they're mavericks. And he and what you know, how are we going to make the audience
understand that this guy doesn't play by the rules? I guess we'll tell the audience that he doesn't believe doors and you said absolut I God when that happened I'd sort of think I sort of got a bit of whiplash cuz I turned around to you like why is he absolutely
554
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,000
I had an out of body experience at that point never mind near death just like what the f*** is he doing
555
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,000
what's going on and the whole film I was just sat there waiting for an explanation
556
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,000
yeah waiting for it to become relevant
557
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,000
yeah
558
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,000
has he got a phobia of doors I mean
559
00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,000
does he absale in his spare time and he just had that lying around was like I've got like you have to if you don't keep using it, does it like just like
560
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:20,000
disintegrate? Disintegrate or something?
561
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:21,000
Yeah, like shoes. If you don't wear shoes for ages and then sometimes if you wear them, they can get dry rot and fall to bits,
562
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,000
right? Yeah.
563
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,000
Just like that.
564
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,000
That that can happen. Yeah.
565
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,000
But um maybe the stairs fell off like
566
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,000
maybe they collapsed.
567
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:27,000
Maybe they all have out of their build out of their windows. I you know, I sort of would have preferred that.
568
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,000
The lift's broken.
569
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,000
The lift's broken. Yeah.
570
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,000
There was a fire. Don't use the shift in the event of a fire use this absailing equipment instead.
571
00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,000
Yes.
572
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:32,000
Yeah.
573
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,000
But there was a cut scene where we see Kevin Bacon setting the fire,
574
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:34,000
right? Yeah. That's that. See, this is better. I want to see him setting the fire abs out of the building. Like if you're going to do something crazy like that and leave us without any simple explanation, at least make it interesting.
575
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,000
Make it wild.
576
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:36,000
Make it Yeah. The whole time I'm just like, why did that happen? And
577
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,000
well, there was just a fire in the corner of the room and he was like, "Oh no, my rope's flammable. I better get it out of here as quickly as possible. I know,
578
00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:38,000
but it also didn't feel like it fit with his character really cuz I would say that he was probably Oliver Plat aside, one of the most he does go under, but he does Yeah. He's sort of when he experiences the afterlife, he's like, "Look, we shouldn't be f****** with this s***."
579
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,000
Yeah.
580
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,000
And um so he's the most levelheaded.
581
00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,000
Yeah. He's like the only one who tries to talk Julie Roberts out of it.
582
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,000
Yeah. Yeah.
583
00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:43,000
So Why was the episode weird? I'd love to know what the reason for that was.
584
00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:44,000
Strange characterization.
585
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,000
I think maybe the reason was Joel Schumacker.
586
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:46,000
Yeah, I think you're right.
587
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:47,000
Yeah, I think he was just sat there going, "Oh, what if No, you coming out of a door is a bit boring, Kevin."
588
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:48,000
Yeah, that's how that went. We've seen that. It's been done.
589
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,000
What about if you skydive into No, that's too much. What else can we do?
590
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:50,000
Yeah, they they wanted to skydive, but the accountants were like, "No, we've gone over budget. Well, what can you afford then? Well, we've got this abs equipment. It's just in the corner.
591
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,000
A bit of rope over there.
592
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:52,000
If we don't use it, it's going to disintegrate. So, we better get it get it on set.
593
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:53,000
Yeah.
594
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:54,000
And the stunt just like send a stunt team home. They don't need to know about this.
595
00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:55,000
Save some money. And Kevin Bacon's not a huge name at that point. So, he's probably not even got insurance or whatever today. Oh god.
596
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,000
Kevin, sign this waiver real quick.
597
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,000
Sign this waiver real quick. Yeah.
598
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:58,000
Oh dear. All right.
599
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,000
I think he probably was one of my favorite characters though, thinking about it.
600
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,000
Bacon. Yeah,
601
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,000
yeah,
602
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:02,000
in retrospect now that we're talking about it,
603
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,000
like I said, you've got Julia Roberts, Oliver Pla, Kevin Bacon on one side, and you've got Nelson Baldwin.
604
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,000
Is that it, or is there another one?
605
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,000
There's there's the four men, and then there's Julia Roberts as token female.
606
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,000
Yeah, we've got to have a woman in there that all of the men want to have sex with.
607
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,000
Yes.
608
00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,000
Why?
609
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,000
We just I don't think Oliver Platt
610
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,000
no
611
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,000
sexually harasses her in any way.
612
00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,000
No, it's just the other three.
613
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:13,000
Yeah,
614
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,000
it's only 75% of See, it's not all men. I keep telling you this. No,
and I keep saying it on the internet every time I'm
615
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,000
three and four.
616
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:16,000
It's not all of them though, is it? Cuz I said not all of them. Now, if you said, "Is it most of them?" I couldn't deny that. I would try. I'd find a way.
617
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:17,000
It's most of them in Joel Scheacker's world, apparently.
618
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,000
Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was weird as well. Like, it just it dates it, I suppose, doesn't it? Like, we've got to have some sort of love interest, love triangle. None of it really goes anywhere like Apart from the obviously Kevin and B Kevin and Bacon.
619
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,000
Kevin and Bacon.
620
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000
Like a cop show in the 80s. One bloke called Kevin. One like called Bacon who's a pig. It's a talking pig.
621
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,000
Yeah. It's Turner and Hooch except it's a pig.
622
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,000
Yeah. Um Yeah. Obviously Kevin Bacon and Julia Roberts, they get together and I don't know. It was It wasn't really necessary in it, but it's, you know, it's that time and everyone's got to have a love interest or whatever in it. But I don't understand. Why? Al I guess William Baldwin's just a sex pest. So any any any time that he gets an opportunity to
623
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,000
with a pulse
624
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,000
to be inappropriate. Yeah.
625
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:25,000
Yeah.
626
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,000
And some without.
627
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:27,000
Yeah.
628
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,000
Um Yeah.
629
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:29,000
Most likely. Yeah. And then um but then also there's this love triangle with um Nelson and Kevin B. Character names, actor names all mixed up together here.
630
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,000
Labra. Yeah. Nelson, Labracio, and Rachel. And then we already hated Nelson, but then he just turns into a nasty piece of work after that.
631
00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,000
He knows the risks. He's bought a child ghost with him
632
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,000
and he's getting beaten up. He's getting his ass handed to him by a minor alluded to earlier and he doesn't tell anyone, you know.
633
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,000
Would you?
634
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,000
Also, do you think that the reason he didn't say anything because he was too embarrassed?
635
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,000
Yeah. I'm not going to admit to an 11year-old handing me my ass. But but it wasn't like 20 years ago that he killed that kid. So that kid's the same age as him. The ghost.
636
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000
Oh, it's so confusing.
637
00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:37,000
No, it's a kid.
638
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,000
I don't think the rules are fully fleshed out.
639
00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:39,000
No. No. A Yeah,
640
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,000
it's ambiguous.
641
00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,000
A lot of it's without flesh.
642
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,000
Yes. Yeah,
643
00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:43,000
entirely. Uh but yeah, I didn't I didn't need that love triangle. That didn't go anywhere. It just sort of made me even more salty on the Nelson character, which didn't do me any favors cuz by the end of it, I meant to kind of think that he's redeemed, I guess, in some way. Like,
644
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,000
it was pretty halfass the way that they tried to redeem that character.
645
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,000
But I think that's what they were going for.
646
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,000
He's our main our main guy in this, right?
647
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:47,000
Or we character we see first,
648
00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,000
which sort of indicates that he's
649
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:49,000
kind of the main protagonist.
650
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,000
Yeah.
651
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,000
Slash antagonist.
652
00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,000
Yeah. I mean, he's not a guy. But I I
653
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:53,000
He killed a child.
654
00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:54,000
No,
655
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,000
even though he was a child, he still killed a kid.
656
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,000
Yeah. He should still feel bad about that.
657
00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,000
Yeah.
658
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000
But his redemption is um if it was meant to be that way, if it's meant to play that way, is that he obviously dies and they're going for longer and longer. They're having a an auction on how long they can be dead for. Um and when the last time that he goes under, he like makes a phone call and he's like, "I'm going to got to do I know how to fix things." At which point Kevin Bacon is already gone. Look, don't worry. I just said sorry and it was fine.
659
00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,000
Yeah.
660
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,000
So, I I I do wonder if maybe Nelson should have just gone to the grave of this kid. Maybe, god forbid, did he ever consider speak to the family and saying, "I'm really sorry I killed your family relative."
661
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,000
Yeah. Accept the consequences.
662
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,000
Accept the consequences. Yeah.
663
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,000
That's the only way to atone really.
664
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:04,000
I think so. Unless you can kill yourself for a bit and then go to the afterlife and talk to a ghost. That's
665
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,000
Oh, that's a much better idea.
666
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,000
If you've got access to medical equipment, then I suppose you know it's two birds, one stone cuz you're doing the research and you're resolving your your demons and ghosts.
667
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,000
But whatever you do, don't plan any of it. Just do it really impulsively in people that you'll inform on the day.
668
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:08,000
You'll probably just figure it out. Yeah.
669
00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,000
Right. Have faith in yourself.
670
00:11:09,000 -->
00:11:10,000
Just wing it.
671
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,000
Just wing it. Like it's got you this far. Yeah. So, you know, you you've I got the impression that he's living on parents' money.
672
00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,000
Oh, that apartment. Yeah. Hell yeah. That was definitely mommy and daddy's money.
673
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,000
I think so. Yeah.
674
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:14,000
What student can afford an apartment that looks like that?
675
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,000
There was a part in it when William Baldwin goes, "Oh, if you die, it's like, well, yeah, that plan. If you don't come back, can I have your apartment? And I'm thinking, that's not how apartments work.
676
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:16,000
Yeah.
677
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:17,000
Oh, that was a joke. But I'm about to Why are you making a joke now when I'm about to die?
678
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:18,000
Just lightening the mood.
679
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:19,000
I'm I'm going backwards and forwards throughout this whole f****** thing. But
680
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:20,000
basically,
681
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,000
it's kind of a mess.
682
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,000
It is. It is a mess, isn't it? It's like interesting setup. Looks great. Good premise.
683
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,000
Oh, this is getting shaky. This is on shaky ground. And then we're just sort of repeating ourselves for for about 45 minutes in in the middle. there. And um but the last time Kefir Southerntherland goes under, he makes a phone call and says, "Look, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to make this right." And they all know what that means. He's going to kill himself for I don't know what was it, 5 minutes or something. They got up to he was dead for like 12 minutes or something in the end, I think.
684
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,000
Yeah, there would be some brain damage. Come on.
685
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,000
Yeah. Um and so they were like, "Oh, we've got to get to the gaff. Get in your cars." And then it cuts to them in the car and then they're doing quips again. Like, but your mates die
686
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,000
that if Do you like him? I don't know why you like him. Why are you hanging around in this piece of s*** in the first place? But if you do care about him, then why are you making jokes?
687
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,000
That would have been a better ending if he'd ended up brain damaged.
688
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,000
Yeah, I think it would have been better.
689
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,000
But he atoned.
690
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,000
I think it just honestly would have been better all around if that character had just died.
691
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:31,000
Yeah,
692
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,000
cuz in this I I know it's a Hollywood film and for some reason people don't want to see death in movies um like mainly
693
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:33,000
in a movie called
694
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,000
but
695
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,000
that's what we're here for. My point exactly is a film called Flatliners. Like a film about death, it's never going to be fun time and rainbows the whole time, is it? And also like if you're proving that the afterlife exists, then it's not really the tragedy that it could be, is it? Like cuz if there is an afterlife and it's all rainbows and it's all fun and glory, then g********** everywhere, then then what the problem?
696
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,000
That's somebody's idea of heaven.
697
00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:37,000
Yeah, I know. It sounds good to me.
698
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,000
Um Yeah. So, like you could have I think in this movie you could have probably had your cake and eaten it a little bit because you could have killed that character, but then also the audience is going to be like, "Oh, but he is." And you could have like put him on a cloud and get a halo on him and he's got chicken wings or whatever.
699
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,000
Sitting there flapping. Yeah. Go wild. It's a wild movie. Just go crazy with the concept, man. With Kevin Bacon abs sailing out of a window. Give him chicken arms. I'm not going to bat an eyelid.
700
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,000
That's fair. That's fair. Yeah, it did. It did kind of make me scratch my head a little bit why they were all so keen to save him at the end. It's like he's he's a legitimately terrible person. He's been awful to all of you.
701
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,000
Yeah. Yeah.
702
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:42,000
I don't know, man. I don't think I would have shed too much of a tear. Do
703
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,000
you know the the the most unrealistic thing I think about this is that when um I think if it was me, if I was in their position, say I was the Kevin Bacon character,
704
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,000
which he would be, let's be honest.
705
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,000
Um I don't know. I'll be Oliver Platt. I think just be making quips going, "Yeah, I ain't doing that. Knock yourselves out. Let me check the contract quickly." Uh, I think if say I'm Oliver Plat, right, and then everyone's had a go and now it's time for William Baldwin's character to go under. The second that he flat lines, I would like and then they're like, "Right, should we resuscitate?" I'll be hold
706
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:46,000
Let's just give it a minute, guys. Let's see how this plays out. Let's give him Let's give him a day or two and see if we can resuscitate him then cuz you never know. Maybe he'll come back with superpowers or something.
707
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,000
Maybe maybe we uh undertake a second experiment.
708
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:48,000
Yeah. Who knows? Maybe that character will come back and and have some sort of guilt about what he's done and try to um make things right.
709
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,000
Yeah.
710
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:50,000
But no, no, no, no, no. We're just going to just leave that there for you all to go. Is Is that it? Do we What?
711
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,000
I was so confused. Like was there was there something that didn't make final cut? Maybe
712
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,000
I reckon there is probably a longer cut. in here that it has to be like cuz I don't see how otherwise it sort of would have passed everything. I think there's a longer cut and they just sort of wanted it to be a
713
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,000
cuz that bit just doesn't resolve at all.
714
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,000
No,
715
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,000
like he gets dumped by Hope Davis and that's it really.
716
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,000
Yeah.
717
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,000
Never mentioned again. Yeah, that really bothered me. That's probably my one of my biggest gripes with the movie actually.
718
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,000
At least like at least have the old bill turn up or or like like we've found this evidence like and Hope Davis has turned it in or whatever. Like that's I Like if you to me that's sort of a bare minimum that you want to do with that character and that's going to cost you a couple of minutes. I'd say at least it's something but no he's just left hanging at the end and I guess he's just going to have a medical career now and no one's going to pay any consequences. We're just going to carry on.
719
00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,000
Maybe we'll do another Flatliners.
720
00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,000
Well, I'm sure he'll treat women with respect from here on out.
721
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,000
Yeah.
722
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:02,000
Yeah. I'm sure that character went on to do good things and be a really good person and contribute to the world.
723
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,000
But, you know, Best Baldwin.
724
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,000
Best best Bowwin. That character probably became a politician.
725
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,000
Oh, absolutely.
726
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:06,000
Yeah.
727
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,000
Yeah. They've all got skeletons in their closet
728
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,000
quite literally. Some of them are.
729
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000
Yeah. I do think, speaking of things that were caught, I do think it's not a joke.
730
00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000
It's not going It's not a setup. Don't worry. Um I do think this film is a bit drawn out.
731
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,000
Yeah, I agree.
732
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,000
I do think more should have hit the cutting room floor to be honest. I think it could have done would have been maybe 15 minutes shorter. It's not saying anything profound enough.
733
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,000
I think it's it's sort of in in that sort of no man's land where uh it could have worked maybe being 20 minutes shorter and we cut some of this odd stuff that doesn't work and just cut f****** William Baldwin out of it out of the thing. Why do he's got camera like what?
734
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,000
Um
735
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,000
or you put on another 20 25 minutes and we flesh out these things a bit more and we have more res resolution to this like it feels like it's it's tried to land somewhere in the middle and hasn't really hit either note.
736
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,000
Yeah.
737
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,000
So, I think I think in this instance, I agree with you. I think they probably should have cut it right down.
738
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:18,000
Make it a tight 90. Like, if you're going to make it a palatable movie for a lot of people to watch and consume. Uh, and it's just a cinematic kind of you're in and you're out. Let's eat some popcorn, think about death for a bit.
739
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,000
Um, like if you can do that, like
740
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,000
it's a fun time.
741
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,000
You keep it at tight 90. It's a it's a fun grand old time. Yeah.
742
00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,000
But no, it's it was it did feel drawn out because and and I said it earlier, but I feel like it did get really repetitive in the middle there.
743
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,000
Um, and that was part of the reason why it did feel drawn out to me, I think, as well, because
744
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:24,000
repetitive and a bit labored in places.
745
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,000
Yeah. Very so labored.
746
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:26,000
Yeah.
747
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,000
Like we mentioned the kid already. There's I'm I guess we're just meant to assume that the these ghosts have got superpowers like like they're really powerful because Kea Suffin can't get he can't maybe he just doesn't want to punch a child.
748
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,000
He killed a child. True. He did worse.
749
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,000
Stoned a child out of a tree.
750
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,000
He did way worse. Yeah. Uh but yeah, it's just it's it's a bizarro image, I guess. The idea of this kid just just hitting hitting him. Um
751
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,000
would you rather be beaten up by that child or have that child spit in your mouth, which was the worst punishment?
752
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:32,000
Beating.
753
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,000
Yeah,
754
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:34,000
obviously the beating.
755
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,000
Yeah.
756
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:36,000
Yeah.
757
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:37,000
I suspected you would say that.
758
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,000
Yeah. But I thought I just didn't it didn't it didn't really work for me that and the kid in Bacon Mom was just even stupider for me. Like I
759
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,000
veered into silly territory.
760
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,000
Yeah, really silly. Like this is
761
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:41,000
I feel like the kid that played young Winnie probably had the best day on set though. Just like I get to say all this with no punishment. Oh my god.
762
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,000
Their parents were just just off camera just like seething.
763
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,000
Yeah. This
doesn't come home with you.
764
00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,000
Doesn't come home with you. No. Yeah, it was a fun day on set for that kid for sure. But just weird, man. Yeah,
765
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,000
just like Yeah, obviously that character is like I suppose the relatable thing in this movie is that we were all kids and we've all done s*** that we're not proud of and made mistakes and you the the good ones. I suppose we tried to think about that and think how we can do things differently. So I I sort of that was sort of relatable. Um
766
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,000
not for me. I'm a piece of s***.
767
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:47,000
But But just how it was executed, I guess. Yeah. And the haunting of a ghost. I think I wrote down actually a
768
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000
a line here. Try me. Let me try and find it here. Can you do some fill?
769
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,000
Would you consider this a thriller or a horror cuz for me it doesn't lean into the horror enough.
770
00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:50,000
It's a threr.
771
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,000
A threr. Okay.
772
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,000
Hiller.
773
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,000
Thorro. A thorough.
774
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,000
It's a Zoro.
775
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000
There's There's no good way to mash those two words together. Um, yeah. I I think for me I wish it had lent a bit harder into the horror elements.
776
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000
Yeah, I agree with you. It it did it sort of felt too thrillery. I think Yeah, it could have been it could have been more horror. Like they've got the ghosts, they've got the swear ghosts. Oh, I found the the the
777
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,000
the uh the quote, by the way.
778
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,000
Okay.
779
00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,000
Um, yeah, David David was told that his breath smells of buffalo farts. And that's like the scariest thing that could happen to that character,
780
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,000
right?
781
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:01,000
Maybe it does. Maybe his breath does smell buffalo fart.
782
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:02,000
A buffalo fart.
783
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,000
I've never smelled Kevin Bacon's breath.
784
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,000
So, who who knows? There's no way to prove it.
785
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,000
That's true.
786
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:06,000
Unless Kevin Bacon wants to come on a show and we can we can smell his breath and see if it actually smells like Buffalo farts and then
787
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,000
but then we would have to smell buffalo farts for the
788
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:08,000
Yeah.
789
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,000
there to be an accurate comparison.
790
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,000
True.
791
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,000
So, we'd have we'd also have to get a buffalo on the show.
792
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,000
All right. Well, look, if you're a Buffalo and you're available and if you're Kevin Bacon and you're avail likelier to get a buffalo, you know.
793
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,000
Never say never. Like I'm always hopeful and I'm pretty ambitious.
794
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,000
And I maybe we could get lucky. You never know. It could be like a two birds, one stone situation. Maybe Kevin Bacon owns a buffalo.
795
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,000
He might.
796
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,000
So let's hope
797
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:17,000
he's always singing at his goats.
798
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,000
He's always singing his go. Maybe he's singing at buffaloos as well.
799
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,000
Yeah. Just never know.
800
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,000
And then what will happen is we'll get we'll get the buffalo to breathe on us and we'll get Kevin Bacon to breathe on us and we'll say what we think and then we've got the evidence and then we don't let And then it's conclusive because that's how experiments work.
801
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000
Yeah. Yeah. You say what you you say what you experienced and then that's science
802
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:22,000
and nobody can refute it.
803
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,000
No.
804
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,000
Yeah. Agreed.
805
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,000
Empirical
806
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,000
like it can't can't be challenged.
807
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,000
Uncontestable.
808
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,000
Yeah.
809
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,000
What did you think of the religious imagery in this? Because it sort of starts and ends with religious iconography, doesn't it? So it's obviously
810
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,000
I'm guessing they're sort of intending that to be tied to the guilt element.
811
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,000
I think so. And obviously the idea of an afterlife is very much linked to religion anyway, right?
812
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000
In the in the sense I think Yeah. In the way that our society thinks of it. Yes. Only because religion is the thing that was around when civilization formed.
813
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000
Yeah. But it could quite easily be something else. It could quite easily be a different quantum realm or whatever.
814
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,000
It could be anything. That's why I I tend to align myself with agnosticism more than anything.
815
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,000
Well,
816
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,000
but like atheists don't believe that there's an afterlife. So,
817
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,000
it can mean many things and you know, it literally for me is just like after you're dead, what happens?
818
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,000
I don't I ain't got a clue. So, I'm not going to pretend to know.
819
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,000
I've never flatlined for two plus minutes, so I couldn't tell you.
820
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,000
But I I I find it very hard to believe that humans have guessed that the the right answer to that.
821
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,000
Um,
822
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,000
it's funny because all of the published reports of near-death experiences are very alike.
823
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,000
That is the interesting thing about it 100%. Yeah.
824
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,000
But then I don't know is it like a shared delusion?
825
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,000
I I've thought about this quite quite a lot. Have you?
826
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,000
My old man when I was a kid had a near-death experience and he explained to me his experience.
827
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,000
Okay.
828
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,000
And that's probably part of the reason I think my parents really liked this film. Maybe that was part of the reason why he he sort of watched it a bit as well.
829
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:49,000
But he expl to me that like he he died in hospital, floated up and saw his body. Um, which is something that loads of people describe. And it's hard to know if that is because that's what everybody says. So that's what you see.
830
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,000
Yeah.
831
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,000
Or if everybody says that because that's what happens. It's impossible. And and until you're there, it's impossible to know. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm sort of open to all possibilities. I don't write anything off. I just write off people that say they definitely know that. As soon as someone is confident, I was like, "Well, it's definitely not that then."
832
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,000
It's there's a fine line between faith and arrogance.
833
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000
Yeah. Yeah. But um but yeah, I remember my old man telling me that when I was a kid, and it always stuck with me.
834
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,000
And I've I've always found the concept of near-death experiences very very interesting. Like everyone speaks about the light, but again,
835
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,000
is it because that's what's in the culture and that's what they see? Um it could be true or it could be a universal thing because during death and when your brain starts shutting down maybe the chemical releases.
836
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,000
Yeah, that's how the meat and electricity interprets the the import the stimuli.
837
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,000
That's just how the body metabolizes the the drugs that it's releasing into your system to prepare you for death and the transition.
838
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,000
Um so it could be any number of things really. Um which is I suppose leans into more about why
839
00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,000
uh anecdotal evidence is not enough.
840
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:00,000
Yeah.
841
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,000
Because humans are unreliable as well.
842
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,000
So interestingly um suicide survivors actually report having quite negative near-death experiences.
843
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,000
Um, which I find very interesting because that sort of to me veers back towards the religious angle because is that like that there's some underlying guilt because nobody really wants to kill themselves. And I say this as somebody's sort of been on the verge a few times in my life. I one of the things that's always pulled me back from that, sorry not to get super heavy, otherwise silly show
844
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,000
we were joking about some from a window earlier.
845
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:05,000
Oh, we'll get back to that, don't you worry. Um, but one of the things that always pulls me back is the potent like the guilt. I don't want to do that to my loved ones.
846
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,000
Yeah.
847
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:07,000
So, maybe maybe that's the guilt as they're kind of dying that's influencing their experiences. It's fascinating, but it's it's so curious to me that
848
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,000
there's there's this delineation between the positive and the negative near-death experience, but they're all much of a muchness.
849
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,000
Yeah. And it's it is strange, isn't it? Because we we all are human. and for all of our differences and all different how different we all are, we're all basically the same um organism.
850
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,000
And so we all basically work the same way.
851
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,000
So it's kind of unsurprising that the the experiences if there's no uh spiritual reason for it whatsoever and it is all scientific and it is all chemical, then yeah, we're probably all going to experience the same thing.
852
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,000
Mhm.
853
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,000
So it's impossible to know. Like if you're just dealing with anecdotes, I don't know. I'm open to all of it. It could be it could be real. It could be could be nonsense. It could be absolutely nothing. I heard a good one. I forget who it was.
854
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,000
Oh, who was it? Oh, I think it was Himish Patel randomly on a podcast.
855
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,000
He was talking about how he's got a theory that when you die,
856
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,000
your brain starts experiencing time differently and then like a second can feel like a hundred years or whatever. And I love that theory.
857
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:17,000
Um, so that, you know, it could be something like that too.
858
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,000
Yeah. And and then maybe people were like, "Oh, it's the afterlife." But maybe it's you're just experiencing everything in that last second,
859
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,000
but to you it feels like an eternal experience.
860
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:20,000
Okay. Well,
861
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,000
bring back the g**********.
862
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,000
There's so much floppy hair in this film, isn't there?
863
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:23,000
Who? My favorite floppy hair is a pl. I love his bow tie and his floppy hair.
864
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:24,000
I love his bow tie. He's such a nerd.
865
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,000
Yeah. I love him. I love him writing the
book on Addictify and just being a pretentious twat in his in his apartment.
866
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,000
But it does feel like he's from a different movie.
867
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,000
It does a bit. Yeah, it doesn't like why is he hanging him, Julia Robertson? Well, why are they all hanging around together? I don't get Well, Nelson and Why does anyone speak to Nelson?
868
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,000
I wouldn't tolerate him.
869
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Yeah. Or or um William I say William Butcher, but that's uh that's the boys.
870
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,000
The boys.
871
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,000
Why does anyone hang around with those two losers?
872
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,000
Don't know. Joel Schemacker obviously likes Kefir Southerntherland though. Liked multiple multiple times he's worked with him. Yeah,
873
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,000
five times I think.
874
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,000
Is it was um is Kea Southerntherland in Stmo's Fire?
875
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,000
I don't remember him in that. No,
876
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,000
I've never seen it so I can tell. I know it's about the Sesame Street guy, but he obviously was in Lost Boys.
877
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:37,000
Yeah.
878
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Uh what else?
879
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,000
Oh, yeah.
880
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,000
Well,
881
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,000
yeah,
882
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000
sort of.
883
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,000
Yeah, he's the he's a voice, isn't he? I think he might be in a in a I've only seen that once ages ago.
884
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,000
Yeah, same.
885
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:45,000
I think he's I think he is it a bit, isn't he?
886
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,000
Maybe.
887
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,000
I seem to remember an image of him wearing glasses or maybe Dark City again.
888
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000
I don't know. But yeah, they work together a bunch.
889
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,000
Maybe I maybe maybe I've underest maybe Kefir Soland is is better than I thought about than I gave him credit for.
890
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,000
I'm telling you, he's he's like good.
891
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:51,000
Yeah. Like he's done a lot of different things as well. He's been a he's been a lot of time he is this abrasive character and he does
892
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:52,000
he's good at that. Yeah.
893
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,000
But then I think about other things. And um actually, no, I can't. He's He's always that character, is he?
894
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,000
No.
895
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,000
Well, he was the hero in 24.
896
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,000
He was. Yeah, but he's he's still like Isn't he like torturing brown people in that, isn't it? Isn't he like a massive fascist?
897
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,000
I didn't watch it that much. I only watched season one, so
898
00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,000
I I listen, I haven't seen it.
899
00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,000
I don't remember that. I feel like I would do.
900
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,000
I could be unfairly judging it, but the impression I got from some of the trailers I saw was like, "America, we take no I could be completely wrong. Maybe it's great and maybe it's more critical of that sort of thing than I give it credit for.
901
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,000
I think I've sort of remembered it as being more progressive maybe because there was a black president.
902
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,000
Okay.
903
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,000
Dennis Hayesburg.
904
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:04,000
I I um I mean I haven't seen it so I'm I'm fairly judging it clearly but I at least thought that that character was maybe morally questionable
905
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,000
and did things for the greater good.
906
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,000
Yeah.
907
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,000
The greater good.
908
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,000
Um but so what's he done where he's a good guy? He was a it in Young Guns, but he still killed people in that. So, not not great. What?
909
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:09,000
He was an obnoxious bully in Stand by Me.
910
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,000
Yeah. Horrible bloke in that. Kefir, do some things where you're a nice boy,
911
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:11,000
mate. Well, if Young Guns free ever gets off the ground, then apparently it doesn't matter who's died in in number two. So, he can be in it.
912
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,000
Spoilers.
913
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,000
Yeah. Sorry. I can't remember actually if he Yeah, he died. I think so. Young guys, too. That's my favorite Belfa Saretti movie.
914
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,000
Yeah. You weren't a fan of Lost Highway, were you?
915
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,000
No.
916
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,000
Or Feast?
917
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000
Feast. Is that the one about um the dinner?
918
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
Nope.
919
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,000
Who am I thinking of?
920
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000
I don't know.
921
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000
The one where we ate the Michael Gambon or something? We all ate uh We're British now on Helen Mirinate.
922
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,000
The cook, the thief, his wife, and her lover
923
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:23,000
and the serpent. Yeah,
924
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,000
there were no serpents. What's your obsession?
925
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:25,000
I reckon they would probably say
926
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,000
that's an incredible film and that's going to make it onto one of my list.
927
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,000
That was a bizarre movie.
928
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,000
Loved it.
929
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,000
Yeah.
930
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:30,000
Um but yeah, I don't have a whole lot more to say about Flatliners.
931
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000
Yeah.
932
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000
Are we flatlining now? Are we?
933
00:15:32,000 -->
00:15:33,000
I think so. Yeah.
934
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,000
Flagging, are we?
935
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,000
We scraped barrel. I do you know what? I was a bit worried about this one
936
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,000
cuz I wasn't you I was out of the I wasn't really concerned but out of the anything done
937
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,000
out of the ones we done so far this season. This was the one after having watched it being like I've got less to say about this. And the only reason for that really if I had to distill it into a single sentence is that this movie is very much style over substance.
938
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000
And after you've spoken about the style, what else is there? But I suppose you talk about the lack of substance.
939
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,000
And how you wishing how you wish that you were watching the substance.
940
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,000
I would rather have been watching the substance. Yeah.
941
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,000
But do you know what? I I still gave it two and a half out of five. I still kind of
942
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,000
It's not a good movie. I don't think it's a good movie, but I think there is still a lot to enjoy here. Um I'm not in a rush to watch it again. And it is style over substance, but my god does it have style.
943
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,000
Yeah, it's kind of it's I think I'm probably on the same level as you. Two and a half. If it if not for the the Joel Scheme and Yand Bond of it, it's probably like a one one and a half movie.
944
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,000
And the Kevin Bacon AB sailing down a building. Yeah. And then the little flashes of really like the Oliver Platt and Julia Roberts is or the idea of that story line anyway. Like not that it was fleshed out completely because we sort of diverted to other bits needlessly. Um but there there's stuff that I like about it. I just I don't know. I don't think I'm ever going to voluntarily rewatch this. We've done it for the podcast now. If not for this, I'm not sure I ever would have. I might have been curious. You know what? I might have bought that arrow. The arrow Now, you know,
945
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,000
I'm glad I didn't cuz I would have bought it. Would have been another um another Crime Wave. Not Not as bad as Crime.
946
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000
God,
947
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,000
but um but yeah, I'm glad that I didn't buy it cuz I probably wouldn't watch it again.
948
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,000
But I I understand why they had a stab at a remake, though. This feels like a perfect
949
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,000
kind of example of what you should remake. Something that has
950
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000
because there are some missed opportunities
951
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000
potential but wasn't fully executed. Yeah.
952
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,000
But somehow they made it worse.
953
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000
So I hear Yeah, somewhere here. Um, but again, I can't reserve I reserve judging that because I haven't seen it and I don't think I'm going to watch it.
954
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,000
I wouldn't bother
955
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,000
if it's worse than this one. I don't think I bother.
956
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,000
No.
957
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,000
Kefir Southerntherland's in that one, too.
958
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,000
Yeah, briefly.
959
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,000
Yeah, I bet he's a really nice man.
960
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,000
I don't really remember the the details, but yeah, I'm sure.
961
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,000
Yeah.
962
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Time cast much.
963
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000
Well, I guess I guess um if we're if we're sort of done now, I guess we need to sort of go away and find out what Buffalo's farts smell like.
964
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,000
Yeah, we need to find us a buffalo
965
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:05,000
and give him bacon
966
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000
and feed it something that gives it wind.
967
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,000
Um, but before we uh embark on this wild experimentation, what are we doing for the next episode, Sierra?
968
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
So, this one was I guess this is my um throwing down a bone of the season.
969
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:09,000
Oh, thank you. I do love my bones.
970
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Uh we're covering the Frighteners.
971
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,000
Yes,
972
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,000
cuz I've only seen it once
973
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:13,000
about 25 years ago.
974
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:14,000
Do you remember much from it?
975
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000
No.
976
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000
Really?
977
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,000
Yeah.
978
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,000
I'm really looking forward to this.
979
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,000
I'm quite I'm quite excited.
980
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,000
I don't want to oversell it, but like I love I think this is just so much fun. Um
981
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000
maybe the last Peter Jackson worth watching
982
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,000
in our opinion.
983
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:23,000
It's controversial.
984
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,000
Yeah, I know.
985
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,000
It's controversial.
986
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Look, we're not Lord of the Rings people. Okay.
987
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
No. Um but yeah, Peter Jackson, who we spoke about in an earlier episode of the season, so feels like that's come full circle a little bit as well. But yeah, I'm excited for this one.
988
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,000
Yeah,
989
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:29,000
we've got that that arrow one. That arrow. It arrived today. Would
990
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,000
you believe? Perfect timing.
991
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:31,000
Let's go and stick it on now.