文字起こし 🔗
Carolyn Spector: Hi everyone and welcome to another episode of Recycle Content, a podcast of the Association of Plastic Recyclers, an international nonprofit and the largest North American organization focused exclusively on improving recycling for plastics. I'm Cara Picciaro and I'll be your host today. Launched in 2025 in honor of the 30th anniversary of the APR Design Guide for Plastics Recyclability, The 2026 APR Recycling Leadership Award celebrate leaders who are unlocking the future of plastics recycling. This year, we accepted nominations from across North America in four categories, Outstanding Leadership, Processor of the Year, Package Design Innovation, and Utilization of Post-Consumer Recycled Content. Winners were once again announced during the Plastics Recycling Conference, And we look forward to having all the winners join us on the podcast this year. Today, we're talking to the winner of the Outstanding Leadership Award, Dr. Ed Sacci, the R &D Director for Packaging Technology Platforms at PepsiCo, where his work centers on advancing recycled plastics, as well as renewable, refillable, and fully recyclable packaging solutions. Ed brings over three decades of experience to the packaging industry. And with his combination of technical expertise, collaboration, and commitment to advancing recyclability worldwide, he has achieved a transformative impact on recyclable packaging design. Welcome, Ed, and thanks for joining us today. Thank you very much, Kara, for this great opportunity. Hi to all my PepsiCo colleagues, and a very special greetings to all working in or participating in plastics recycling. Yes, I'm sure a lot of them will be listening in today, Ed. To kick things off, let's kind of take a step back and start from the beginning. I talked a little bit about your background, but let's get into that a little more. How did you initially get involved in the packaging industry and how has your career evolved over the years? And of course, what originally sparked your interest in sustainability and recyclability? I first learned about packaging. while visiting a Rutgers University open house as a high school student. I originally intended on studying civil engineering, but while at Rutgers I learned about packaging engineering and I actually interned with the Center for Plastics Recycling Research and worked unknowingly to me at the time with professors who were involved in the early days of APR, the likes of Sid Rankin and Howard Frankel. But the big move for me into packaging came later when when I was at Allied Signal, our department was basically disbanded. So what happened was ⁓ I was working in a central research role and I scrambled to look for a new role since my department no longer existed and found a new role in the engineering plastics division. And within engineering plastics, I was really lucky to join a new technology team led by, in my opinion, one of the greatest industrial chemists of all time, Dr. Chris Acapetti. And it's there we worked on completely new materials for packaging. And that really was it. That was the big move for me into packaging. And at that time, it was all about a shift into PET from glass for the beer industry. So we developed gas barrier materials to protect beer in this new PET bottle. And then while doing that, I learned about this organization called APR. And ⁓ at that time APR stood somehow for association of post-consumer plastics recycling. So it was a little different. This was around 1999 or 2000 when I attended my first APR meeting. And then just on a personal level, environmental improvement was always important to me. I learned it from my mom and from my grandmothers. The idea of taking care of nature. Never hurt a fly. If you find a spider in the house, you help it get outside. you never waste food. one of my grandmothers could feed an army with some really good food from one roasted chicken. So it was from those early days and influences from my family that I became interested in environmental sustainability. So a long history in the industry and really way back to the beginning of APR too. And of course, combined with that family history to really get that interest in the environment and sustainability and conservation. We are glad it brought you to where you are now and to all your time with APR, of course. You've been an integral voice at APR for many years to help guide our organization and create design guidance for recyclable packaging. You touched on it there, but tell us a little bit more about your involvement with APR. And what are some developments or achievements that stand out most to you? Thanks. Voice is a good word. I try and speak up on issues that are important in our beloved PET technical committees. Of course, in the early days, those meetings were led by the great Dave Cornell. May he rest in peace. Yes. And we're more of an academic lecture, a very good one, from Dave. With an overhead. With an overhead. I can't forget about that. Dave preferred photons over electrons. Yes. But as years went on, there was a need for more folks to speak up in the meetings. And I think asking a question or seeking clarity or just repeating something can be helpful, not only to the questioner, but to others in the room. So I encourage all to speak up respectfully as it enriches us all. And without question, others before me forgot more about recycling than I will ever know. I am not in their league, the likes of Schloss. Shedler, Bedard, Tosito, Cornell, to name a few, especially Dave. But I learned a lot from them. I saw in them a love for what they did and a passion that I saw nowhere else in business. As far as actions, a few for me personally included helping to develop the APR Technology Review Panel for new innovations. I remember in the early days we didn't have that and I was... I was strongly in favor of having such a review panel and I know it continues to this very day, very effectively. Supporting
Load full transcript
refinements to the critical guidance for PET. Of course, others wrote it, but I was happy to help edit and refine. Develop the color sortation of labeled articles was something that I worked very strongly on. We had a near infrared sort technology, but we didn't really have a color sort. Protocol so I was I was involved in that and enjoyed working with that group Probably the work I am most proud of is the Dave Cornell plastics Hall of Fame nomination Which I had the honor of working on closely with Steve Alexander and then more recently I've I've come to enjoy a role of support on the PET technical committee serving as vice chair and helping Megan who was doing just an incredible job and then very recently work on perforated shrink labels to help improve color sortation and yields at PET reclaimers. So those are a few of the areas that I've been part of and been proud of. Yes, just a few. Many substantial informative contributions to APR. And I love hearing you give all those shout outs to so many important people that have contributed as well. it only highlights what I said right in the intro about how important collaboration is with you. So you clearly are showing that with all calling out these important people, including Dave, who we miss dearly. So that's great to hear. And thanks to your vision and leadership at APR, of course, and at PepsiCo, PepsiCo's beverage portfolio is nearly 100 % recyclable, which is setting a benchmark for the entire industry. What are some examples of recyclable package design changes that you've been able to implement throughout your career? Well, there are a ton of folks at PepsiCo working on packaging and ensuring it is designed very well. 93 % of our primary and secondary packaging in our key packaging markets was designed to be reusable, recyclable, or compostable. And for our primary plastic packaging and key packaging markets, we achieved a 5 % reduction. in our absolute tonnage of virgin plastics between 2023 and 2024. And recycled PET is a big part of that. But some other examples ⁓ specific to me, ⁓ Tropicana. For a while, there were very few options for handleware containers that have a handle, especially a flow through handle where the product passes through the handle. And some were not fully compatible with PET recycling. They were close, but they weren't all the way there under the APR Critical Guidance Protocol. And I was honored to support Dr. Clarence Sequeira, who really was the lead in launching a recycle compatible flow through handle bottle. That one was made by via extrusion blow molding. To do this, actually Clarence, but a number of us worked in a remote lab that was adjacent to Graham Packaging's facility in Bradenton, Florida, which was also adjacent to the Tropicana plant in Bradenton. And we worked on this technology together and we made sure that the resin met APR critical guidance and we had phenomenal support from the team at Indorama on that particular project. Then we come to find out that the label on that bottle turned out to have an issue with a non-releasing adhesive. Recyclers in Canada in particular took notice of this and they were segregating this Tropicana bottle out due to its incompatibility. The label was staying on the flake and then it was carrying through to the pellet and creating some quality concerns. So I visited several of those recyclers up in Canada to speak to them about the issue. I actually, brought back some pictures to share with the folks back in the home office. And later we adopted a PSL label, which was fully compatible with the support of a lot of folks within the APR. And then that label was expanded to other packaging, such as our Life Water Bottle. Another area is shrink labels. I could not complete this podcast without raising shrink labels. And at the time, the shift from PETG to crystallizable polyester, and that was led by Dr. Wei Long Chen. Again, I was fortunate to work with some great scientists at PepsiCo. And then a final area that I'm working on today is a little bit behind the scenes, but equally important, and it's around recycled PET quality and specifications. And this has a focus on ensuring we have a rigorous approval process for recycled PET that we utilize in our packaging. So those are a few examples. All important work and a lot of people outside of the industry don't realize how important these things are and they contribute to the recyclability. Labels are something that we always have a large focus at APR and within our industry and you have helped lead the way with a lot of great changes on that front. You've also been a driving force behind the global adoption of the APR preferred design principle. So What do you think needs to happen next to scale recyclable packaging design in 2026 and beyond? I think it's a good understanding of APR design guidance is a key and also a good understanding of the PET collection, sortation, reclaiming process. I think it's critical for folks who work in this space to be comfortable with the APR design language and to familiarize themselves with collection sorting and MRFs, reclaimers. Be sure that people in your organization are familiar with all of this. Encourage them to take the APR design training. I remember in the early days as that was being developed, I had the opportunity with John Standish and Steve to meet with them and to start to talk about what a design training course might look like. And they've taken it to just phenomenal levels, especially now with Kurt Kozard involved. Also, what needs to happen to scale recyclable packaging? I think it's more about the person. It's important to have a love for nature and a love for the environment. It's important to have a positive attitude. It's important to be kind and have a willingness to work together, share both blame and credit. Believe me, all of the technical stuff will come. We have plenty of technical expertise and experts. I also recommend reading some texts or,
for example, a summary of Pope Francis' encyclical, Laudato si, praise be to you. where he shares his love for the environment and ways we can improve it. And yes, he mentions recycling. The Pope mentions recycling. That's great to hear. And speaking of improve, I think you mentioned in your question, how can we improve? I love that sentiment. I love it much more than reduce. I shudder when I hear folks say, let's reduce the environmental impact. I say, let's improve it. And that's the key for me to. to scale recyclable packaging in the future. I like that. I'm going to add that to my talking points. Not reduce, but improve the impact. You mentioned the APR design training program. Completely agree, of course. This is a great way for companies to gain a better understanding of how the APR design guide works, as well as recycling in general. You mentioned understanding how the recycling process works. That's all part of that training program, too. We have another program, ⁓ Recycling in Action Month, that's coming out this May. That's where we encourage people to sign up for tours so that you can see behind the scenes at a material recovery facility, a MRF, or a reclaimer, how recyclables are collected, sorted, and then sent to a reclaimer to be turned into another material that has a new life. But also how you mentioned the person. That's so important too. And we all need to work together to make this happen. We have the technical side. have people who don't fully understand that technical side, but let's just all understand the impact of all these things and recycle and work together. So all of those things are so important. I'm glad you mentioned beyond just our industry and the technical stuff too. Very important, very important. Plastic recycling does continue to face significant challenges as we all know. We're not always hearing good news about plastic recycling, but we're always still working to improve it. People who are pushing for change within companies and organizations are often met with resistance and obstacles around package redesign, recycled content, and other sustainability initiatives. Can you share any stories about roadblocks you've had either in the past or even in addressing current design for recyclability challenges? Absolutely. But first, as you described, there are challenges that recyclers are facing on a daily basis. ever increasing. So firstly, I would like to acknowledge the innovation, the engineering marvels, the dedication, the incredibly hard work of plastic recyclers and reclaimers, especially the reclaimers. There is more technology there than it might take to put a person on the moon. I think Dave or John or Steve used to say that. They all like that one. So thank you, reclaimers, for all that you do to overcome all of the roadblocks that you face. Roadblocks for me came much more frequently in the early days when there was just a few of us in my company that were strongly focused on environmental sustainability. I mean, but there were several, but now it's much greater. There is a huge focus on environmental sustainability at PepsiCo and we see it at other companies as well. So at that time it was really about educating others about the issues due to poor package design. And once people understand that design is inextricably linked to PCR quality and to PCR supply, it's much easier. It's a much easier conversation. But still, there are certain designs for recycling that brands struggle with. One of those is full coverage shrink labels. While they are made from crystallizable polyester and wash-off inks, they can still be missorted at a PET reclaimer, even in the presence of delabellers. So we've been working in the label working group of the PET technical committee on evaluating perforation patterns that would facilitate the removal of full coverage sleeve labels and other partial coverage, but specifically for full, that would make the underlying bottle, the clear PET bottle, more visible and ensure that it's sorted correctly. So we've worked on that. We've had the honor of working on that with several PET reclaimers and they open up their facilities for us. They work side by side with us. These were hot days in the summer and they all rolled up their sleeves and they know who they are and I really appreciate all the effort they gave us. Other areas where you've got to overcome some roadblocks is on recycled content. You know, there is a link between recycling rate, recycled content. and ultimately recycled PET quality. So we have to manage that well and ensure that we maintain the quality of recycled PET. And fortunately, we have some new technologies that really will assist in that area, such as enhanced recycling, Blake to resin, Blake to preform, and other new technologies to kind of help the much larger mechanical supply chain and ensure that we have plenty of material in the system and the material is flushed and preserved. You mentioned a couple times the link between design and the quality of PCR and PCR utilization and that's something we talk about often at APR. A quote that Steve Alexander, the president uses a lot is that brands and manufacturers need to understand that they are their own material suppliers. They have to design for recyclability So that those great reclaimers that you mentioned, we have over 80 in the United States alone working every day to recycle plastics, but they need this quality material so that they can create that PCR that you can then buy again and put in your products again. So it's so important that everybody understands that link there and how important it is. Agreed. What's the next big project that you're focused on right now, whether at PepsiCo or through your work with APR and the PET technical committee? Is there anything that you can share with us about what's ahead? Definitely. Enhanced RPET with Eastman is one of the big areas that I'm super excited about. Taking difficult or even
non-recycled materials today and converting them into virgin quality recycled PET is something that's just extraordinary. To take and convert these types of materials into high quality PCR helps the whole supply chain by introducing more virgin-like material into the market. It also reduces waste into landfill, incineration, and potentially into leakage into the environment. So I'm really proud of the work that PepsiCo and Eastman Chemical are doing on commercializing the Eastman PET Renew technology, which again converts difficult to recycle polyester feedstocks to high quality PCR via what's called the methanolis pathway. And Eastman has done a really good job investing in scaling this technology and we're proud to partner with them and commercialize that. Also, the Eastman technology is complementary with the mechanical recycler community. So materials that are difficult for the mechanical recyclers to process can now be transferred over to Eastman where they can process those types of materials. So I think that's a very exciting area. Very looking forward to that in the future, seeing more of that. Also, another area that we're focused on is our internal testing now on commercialization of, again, these full crystallizable polyester sleeves with wash off inks and with perfs. So with that approach, we should be helping reclaim our yields and quality by preventing missortation. And then what's after that? I'm personally very interested in any technology that creates higher quality mechanical RPET, ensuring the aesthetics of the packaging that's created from those materials. Because it's very important for us to maintain good aesthetics in our packaging, good quality in our packaging. And mechanical recyclers, reclaimers work really hard in making that happen. And APR has right now a recycled PET color reduction working group. And I think that work led by John Standish and Clarence Sequeira will be very consequential. And also at PepsiCo, we too are working on ARPET quality enhancement. And we hope that will ultimately lead, as Dave would say, to more good bottles. Yes, you mentioned quality. That's so important. And labels, those are always an issue we're dealing with. And I'm also glad that you mentioned aesthetics. because it is possible to develop fully recyclable packaging and packaging components that still maintain the aesthetics that brands want and need to sell their products. And it's just unrealistic to say, well, we just need to put that aside. It just needs to be recyclable. No, it most definitely be both. Always glad to hear making that connection there. Thank you. Yeah, I fully agree. And it's through the detailed work of mechanical recyclers. It's the front end, it's the whole bottle sortation, it's the washing, the allutriation, it's the flake sorting, it's all the attention to detail that they place that ultimately leads to a very high quality mechanical Arpet material, fully suitable for use in beverage packaging. And we use quite a bit of it. Exactly. We can take that recycled material and put it right back into beverage bottles and other food contact material. And also, lots of other applications that are equally as important to that. You've talked obviously a lot about collaboration and so many great teams and people that you have had the opportunity to work with and collaborate with throughout the years. What advice would you give to someone who's new to packaging recyclability or just starting their design for recyclability journey? So are there any key lessons that you've learned along the way that maybe you wish you'd known earlier? And kind of what skills or mindset do you think is most important for making a meaningful impact on sustainable packaging? My recommendation is try and learn as much as you can and do so from what I call the Mount Rushmore folks. So speak to them, learn about their experiences, learn about their backgrounds, schedule some one-on-ones and meet with them. I can guarantee you the folks that I'm... thinking of would be more than happy to spend time with you, especially if you're new to the field. While the APR receptions are phenomenal, don't solely rely on them to talk to people. Exactly. Go and enjoy, but that's not the only way you should do it. Go and enjoy, absolutely. But schedule some time with folks. And I think you'll learn a lot. And I remember being at one of the first APR receptions and knowing virtually no one and someone came up to me and said don't worry in about another year You're gonna know everybody in this room and that did come true But again talk to those what I call them the Mount Rushmore folks now if you're gonna talk to Steve Alexander pack a lunch Because he can talk longer than your college calc professor who starts class by saying we're gonna finish early today I can think of a few to talk to Hanson Mukachin, Novato, Zhang, Harrison, Standish, Doram, Cozart, Sequeira. There's a bunch of great and amazing people out there. Pull them aside, ask them for some time. I was lucky in learning about APR early on when we were developing new technologies, but I was one of the few people at my former company, Honeywell, who knew about APR. So for young folks out there, inform your design teams. or inform people who are responsible for design about the APR, about the Design for Recycling Guidelines. Host trainings. Don't do it all by yourself. Sometimes we have a hero culture. Avoid that. Engage others in your company. Bring APR into your company for training. Have a learning mindset. Know that we live in a really challenging time. We heard that last week at the PRC and APR. But recycling was always an area where folks worked together. They worked hard together. Let's keep that spirit alive and well. And if you're a young person entering this field, keep that mindset. And with all the policy activity, it can honestly get a little daunting. So, collaborate, treat each other with respect, and we're gonna make this
recycling thing work. The last thing I would say is, and for me, it's the perfect... I have the perfect example, Saquera Chen. Surround yourself with excellent people. Always place character first. As I said earlier, the technical stuff, it'll come. And for all the young folks, be sure to visit Murph's and Reclaimers. Get in there, learn about it. Kara, you mentioned the recycling in action and otherwise schedule some time and learn about all the ins and outs of our industry. Great advice and completely agree with all of that. Yes, go tour a MRF, go tour a Reclaimer. Of course, we have a recycling action that's coming this May, but a lot of these facilities hold tours throughout the year. So definitely encourage you to check that out. Also, yes, learn from our Mount Rushmore, our excellent people. And I would... Definitely say that Ed Saci is on the Mount Rushmore too. So schedule some time with him when you're at an APR meeting or some other time. Thank you. That's very kind. To close things out, reflecting on your years of experience in packaging and design for recyclability, we talked about how your career kind of has evolved over the years, but how have you seen the industry evolve over time? What meaningful progress or shifts stand out to you the most and What developments give you the greatest sense of optimism about where the industry is headed? Even when APR was small, it was always super interesting and of interest. I remember there were never enough chairs at any meeting, probably a good problem to have. Now it's bigger, it's growing all the time. As we talked about, recyclers and reclamers pour a great deal of their time, talent, treasure into making recycled materials and they should be congratulated, honored. I have optimism about recycling. I like the new technologies that are emerging. I love mechanical recycling. I love the new sortation technologies that are developing. Decontamination technologies are phenomenal. On the salvolysis side of the house, I love the partial salvolysis technologies, the so-called flake to resin technologies. Fascinating. Produce a great quality material. And now we're seeing full solvolysis pathways, such as the methanolysis approach that Eastman takes. These are all great examples of incredible investment in this industry and incredible new technologies. And I'm just proud to be a part of it. I personally would love to see more spirited and respectful debate in committee meetings. Those meetings are a great opportunity to speak up. So for anyone out there who's attending those meetings, raise your hand. Let your voice be heard. Those are wonderful opportunities. know, I, I, before we close, have to mention, you know, as Dave would say, we need more good bottles. He would close many meetings with those three little words. As John Stannis would often say, do not let the great be the enemy of the good. And as was said for Dave in his plastics hall of fame nomination, Dave Cornell placed the small town of recycling. squarely on the map. Let's all continue to grow that town and fill it with optimism, hopes, and dreams. I love to end on that. There's so much to be optimistic about in our industry and all of the technology and developments that are out there despite the challenges that we have to face. So love to end on that optimistic note and a great quote from Dave. Thanks so much for joining us today, Ed, and thanks to everyone for listening. For more information about the APR Recycling Leadership Awards, the APR Design Guide, and much more, visit the APR website at plasticsrecycling.org. Check us out on LinkedIn, Facebook, and X at APR Recycles. And you can find recycled content wherever you get your podcast. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to subscribe, rate, like, and review.