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Welcome to yet another Pudgecast episode.
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I'm your host, Oliver Heute.
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This is your favorite revolutionary podcast.
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Today you might have seen uh with a special topic uh being Australia, which is where this very podcast is recorded.
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And the good news for me is I don't have anyone online today, so I can take those off and just speak to my co-hosts in person who've come all the way to the interrogation room to tell us stories about revolutionary Australia.
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Now you might think Australia Revolution, that just doesn't happen.
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Is that right?
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Hello everyone.
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Dave Sloan?
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Oliver, thank you for having us.
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Uh yeah, absolutely, that's right.
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There's a lot of revolution, rebellion, riots, and uh fist fights in Australia, and we'll tell you all about it.
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But people don't seem to know about it.
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James, you're an immigrant, just like myself.
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Before you came to Australia, were you aware of any coups or revolutions, riots in Australia?
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Did you ever learn any any of that?
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No.
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I think the only thing I was aware of was neighbours and home and away.
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Yeah, Crocodile Dundee.
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Crocodile Dundee.
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Um he was uh a cinema revolutionary, still is, uh Paul Hogan.
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But I I have to agree with you, James.
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I I don't remember any stories about revolution riots.
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Uh I think from abroad, Australia is always perceived as a very peaceful country, very stable political country.
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We've had um Federation, which is sort of the Australian form of independence in 1901.
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Ever since then, have there been coups or not?
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I think some people might argue that.
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But today we dig a little deeper.
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We go, what, into the 19th century exclusively.
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I think all three topics that you brought along are from the 19th century.
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And uh let's give us a little sneak peek in preview.
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All right, we're working backwards.
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So mine is in 1861, the Lambing Flat riots.
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You would never have heard of Lambing Flat, and I'll tell you about that in a minute.
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I have no idea, by the way.
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At this time, usually I do a bit of research um to have an idea of who the expert is and what they're talking about.
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Lemming flats means nothing to me, so I'm I'm very excited.
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Uh James, what did you bring for us?
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Okay, guys and girls.
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So today I'm gonna be talking about the Eureka Stockade, which its genesis was in 1851, and its conclusion was in 1854.
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Oh, so it went on for a while then?
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Well, not really, but I'll explain about that in a minute.
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Okay, great.
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But the topic we're starting with today, David Shields.
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Hi.
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Uh, we're looking at the Rum Rebellion.
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So this is the fledgling colony in New South Wales, 20 years after the arrival of the first fleet.
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And the first, and up until this point only, military coup in Australian history.
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I'm so glad to hear the word coup because that's what putsch means in German, and this is the coup cast.
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So Yeah, it is.
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Um in order to have a coup, you need a political system that is either overthrown or attempted to be overthrown.
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Yes.
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So what is the political system at the time in Australia?
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So give us an idea.
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Small colony um overseen by a governor who uh at his disposal has a um military or the New South Wales Corps as they were called.
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Basically, there are still very few free settlers in this colony.
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Uh, it wasn't well developed.
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There were a number of convicts, so there was free labor um that existed.
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The governors uh they took their orders ultimately from the UK.
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Governors were replaced um intermittently.
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And this story starts with um another figure of history, someone that you're very fond of, um, or his story at least.
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It is um when the f the governor Philip King, who was overwhelmed by his duties in dealing with renegade members of the New South Wales military, um, was replaced by William Bly.
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So William Bly I know that name.
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Um what can you tell me about William Bly?
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Mutiny on the bounty.
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So um it's a story I always loved.
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Um uh there's a there's a black and white, there's many uh film adaptation, I think.
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Uh there's probably one every decade as
Load full transcript
well.
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But um the one that I remember best, and I have a look if we can find some footage because we are now also on YouTube for everyone who's missed that.
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So um, if you're on YouTube, you might be seeing some ships sailing across the screen right now.
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But um, there's one from the 60s where Marlon Brando plays I can't believe that Fletcher Christian.
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Um and I can't, I think Howard something was the name who played Captain Bly.
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And he's such such a perfect villain, and that's why I think I liked him.
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He's like because you sort of sympathize with him because they are in those extreme challenging circumstances.
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They're on the other side of the world, you can't just stop and get supplies or anything.
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The Pacific is vast, obviously, and uh uncharted territory, um, quite literally, because this is only a few decades after Captain Cook, right?
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So um 20 years old, the colony.
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Yeah.
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So it's no one would have a clue where they actually are on you know, um, on the map.
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And and and the people who were manning those ships were quite questionable characters themselves.
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It's not like today where we talk about a professional navy with people who do this for a living.
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This is people that were, you know, um gang pressed into uh staying months and months on a ship, um, no matter what circumstances was.
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So you got health challenges, you got psychological challenges, you got criminals on there.
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And and I I envy, I don't envy anyone who has to uh enforce any form of discipline.
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And Bly did this, but he crosses the line and becomes a bit of a sadistic character, and I think that's what the story lives off.
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Um and then you you sympathize with um Fletcher Christian, who is this young upstart, honest, righteous man, but then in the end it's like, is he?
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And and the amazing thing is, without giving away too much, but obviously he puts him on a little tugboat, is that the word?
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Uh a launch, yeah.
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So a small open boat.
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And uh Bly managed to navigate.
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Obviously finding places to stop in um and you know, take on supplies, etc.
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But he made it back uh to the Australian mainland.
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And this is where our story starts.
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Well, um there is a there is a gap in time between him returning and becoming governor.
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--> 00:06:33.279
He's appointed governor because he has a reputation as a hard man.
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So uh it it wasn't like he was tainted in the eyes of the British um government uh based on what happened on the bounty.
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And he was sent to Sydney to clean up this mess um that had sort of taken root uh in the in the fledgling colony due to a number of reasons.
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It was an English colony at the time.
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Uh so basically, due to the fact the distance, etc., this colony was short on most things.
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Um and currency was one of those.
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So the primary form of currency uh and what was used within a barter economy was rum.
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I think rum was used as a generic term for any distilled liquor.
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The New South Wales Corps had a monopoly on the importation of rum, and they also began to import um stills, and they were creating or they were distilling their own rum, so effectively printing money.
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So this group, this military group, um referred to as a gang, or you could call it a cartel almost, had complete control over this industry, and they were also um not a better by, but another prominent Sydney um resident, a free settler and the wealthiest man in the colony, James MacArthur, had an interest in the uh the rum trade as well.
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Bly was sent in and given the explicit order to basically shut this down.
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And um we know how he went on the bounty in terms of his interpersonal skills, and um he made enemies very, very quickly in the colony because, as you can imagine, people who have had the run of the green for 15 years do not want to give up um any of that power or influence uh that they had accrued.
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And so William Bly, he um replaced Rum uh with uh a different form of hard currency, which was very unpopular with members of the New South Wales Corps.
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And also what he did was he challenged MacArthur in terms of the um the land grants that this man was getting from the United Kingdom.
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He was getting some of the biggest land grants um for grazing um uh uh in in the colony, and he was very, very wealthy.
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So Bly is taking on the wealthiest man in the colony and the military as well.
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He is very, very, very unpopular.
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The head of the New South Wales Corps was a man called Johnson, and so the three characters in this story are Bly, Johnson, and MacArthur.
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The New South Wales Corps, were they sort of akin to like the East India Company?
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Were they like a private?
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No, they were lit there was literally just the garrison.
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It was a garrison um colony, um, and these were the men who were in charge of keeping order, um pushing the convicts around, telling them what to do.
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And they had the they had the run of it.
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So it's like a almost like a military junta in a way that they ran this.
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And the governor, Philip King Pride Bly was almost impotent in in their in in the face of them.
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Just because you you did you did use my favorite word coup at the start, and I'm still trying to understand the political system.
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You've described it a bit, but so this is the this is George and England we're talking about, right?
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1808.
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So it's 1808, it's basically the Napoleonic Wars.
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Yeah.
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England is under siege, more or less, during that time, I would say, all the way up till 1815 when things started calming down in Europe.
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And is that one of the reasons why people had a free fall down here that England was just distracted on the continent?
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And number two, was the English society replicated down here?
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So was there nobility, were there different um levels in society, class differences, and they just replicated it here?
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Or was it like a new world idea where people just started and anyone could become a governor?
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And you mentioned the most powerful person, rich person, was he a a nobleman as well?
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Uh no, I think it's more of the new world.
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It's uh it is a bit of a free-for-all.
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And a lot of these people are um taking every any opportunity that they can to make money.
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And the two ways to make money uh is to one, to if you're a free settler, to receive a um a land grant and to start a farm and hopefully successful, because at this stage a lot of the farming was st still failing.
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Um and it was.
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It was only 20 years old.
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Um the population wasn't huge.
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And I I think that the way that the economy was controlled by the New South Wales Corps, they became known as the Rum Corps, probably inhibited the actual growth of the colony because it was um corruption from the top.
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The corruption was just every every segment of society was completely corrupted.
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Um and I think it was still it's a small colony, it's an outlier.
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I'm not sure how much interest Britain at that time really would have had on they obviously didn't want this
colony to fail.
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Um, but I don't think they it's not um as if they had the same concern vis-a-vis like America and um the 18th century, for example.
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This is a tiny outpost.
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It's the only colony on the Australian mainland.
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Um there are people in Van Diemen's Land, but there's basically that's not even that hasn't even been declared a colony yet.
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So it's just this little outpost um with a bunch of uh rowdy military types who've stitched up the yeah, the the black market in terms of everything.
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When you look at a map these days, um it is uh in and around what we call now Sydney.
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Correct.
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Yeah.
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So probably East, what we'd call the eastern suburbs around that part of Sydney.
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As a penal colony, there were strict rules regarding if you abetted or aided the escape or were connected to an escape of a convict, you could face um significant sanction.
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And because the real really the only way in and out, because you're not escaping into the hinterland, is via a boat, all of the merchants had to pay significant deposits.
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I think the equivalent of per boat, a deposit of$85,000 if they wanted the boat to leave Sydney Harbour to go anywhere.
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Um and that deposit was only returned when it was when the boat returned and it was proved that no uh convict had used it to escape or um had been helped in in getting out of the colony.
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What happened is one of MacArthur's boats, the Parramatta, someone, managed to sneak on board and get out of get out of get out of Sydney.
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And on return, um Bly decided to turn the screws on MacArthur.
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He um confiscated his boat, he summoned him to court, and MacArthur flatly refused.
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So these guys had a standoff, basically.
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The next step in terms of the escalation of this is that MacArthur um was arrested and imprisoned by Bly, and um he was supported, MacArthur was supported by a number of military officers, and Bly then he made a decision to frame this as an attempted mutiny and he called Johnson, the head of the Rum Corps or the New South Wales Corps.
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Um he he said he needed this man and his um the military that he's in command of to come to Government House to um like deal with the situation, to um crush the mutiny and and probably imprison those officers.
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But uh Johnson decided, again, someone who was not a fan of Bly, he um he went and released MacArthur.
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He got all of the Rum Corps together, we're talking maybe three
to four hundred men.
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They marched with the full band playing um in a in parade style through the streets of Sydney to Government House and arrested Bly.
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And they they basically said, We're we're we're taking over.
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Yeah.
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Um they Johnson became I suppose the quasi leader, the the governor um in situ, and basically undid all of the reforms that Bly had attempted to bring in.
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So, in that sense, technically speaking, yeah, a military coup.
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So the governor has been arrested, detained, and and removed from power um by the military that is supposed to serve and protect him.
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It seems to be a theme in Bly's life, right?
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This is the second time almost the identical thing has happened to him that the people he was meant to command rebel against him and he doesn't get away with it.
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Yeah.
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He he's got this formal power, but what I take it is that there are very few people in New South Wales that are his sort of supporters or um very few.
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He had a couple uh there were a couple in the judiciary, uh, but again, he'd he'd he'd gotten MacArthur offside, and that's yeah, the richest man in town, and then those with all the military power.
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Not a not a smart political operator, Bly.
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Um Maybe he's just not a nice guy.
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I don't think he was.
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There's another instance prior to the film he's not paid him off.
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That's a movie.
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You always watch the movie.
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Yeah.
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But let's talk communication then.
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You can't just pick up the phone Westminster Abbey or anything, right?
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So How would that be communicated?
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Uh letters on other ships.
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It would take six weeks.
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How long would that have been?
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Eight to twelve?
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No, longer.
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Remember, there was months.
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There was no Suez Canal, nothing.
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So you had to go all the way um around Africa at least.
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Yeah.
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Um would have taken a long time.
00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.679
But again, you you mentioned the East India company, so I assume there was maybe some communication that way.
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But I think through yeah, Cape Town and then up to England would have been a long time.
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Well the turnaround
would be six months then, right?
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That they need to get there and then orders to return.
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Yeah, I would say so.
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Do you reckon that they would have had in the UK I mean it wouldn't have been that long.
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It would have been within a lifetime, right?
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Of the American War for Independence.
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Whatever.
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Do you reckon they had that in mind?
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Like when they overthrew Blyang?
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No, but I just wonder like like the UK government, if in London, if they'd be a bit paralyzed because you don't want to overstep the mark, right?
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Or like and then set something the equivalent of like the Boston Tea Party off or something like that.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I know it's different.
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It's probably too small.
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Like it sounds like Yeah, I suppose the difference is that I don't think there are any free I don't think there are any private citizens who are involved in this.
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It was just simply this military group wanting to re get their hands back in the in the in the trough, basically.
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They wanted to start making money again.
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I think the other thing here is um the colony of Australia at the time had a purpose, and that was a place to put all the convicts.
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That's right.
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So from England's point of view, do they really care as long as they can keep filling it on with the bigger?
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Yeah, we were not producing really anything for export.
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They, you know, there was no wool big wool industry.
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I did MacArthur became the biggest sort of um became that guy.
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He became that guy.
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Uh but at this stage it was still, you know, still small fry, I think.
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Okay.
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Did he become Governor MacArthur, is that right?
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:49.680
Um subsequent to Bly's arrest, the British couldn't quite figure out what to do, and no one really wanted to take responsibility and then, you know, try to rein in the um the the New South Wales Corps.
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:57.279
But eventually an interim governor, um uh Fravog was sent out uh and he arrived in, I think, about June.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:05.839
So this rum rebellion took place on the 26th of January, 1808, and Favreau, he arrived um a few months later.
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.319
Johnson and MacArthur were sent to um the UK on trial.
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:16.240
Bly were he went back to the UK and he became he was promoted and became an admiral.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:20.160
Um MacArthur, he would the there was no sanction on him.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:23.359
He just was not allowed to return to New South Wales until 1817.
00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:28.880
So he had about he had to sit and cool his heels in the UK for you know six or seven years.
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:39.759
And Johnson was basically kicked out of the Navy, but he was permitted to return as a private citizen, and he had a substantial estate here from all of the nefarious stuff he was doing.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.000
Um, it was such a just country.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:46.079
Like anywhere else, they would have lost their heads, right?
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:52.079
Like in those days, trying to overthrow the guy, actively being successful in overthrowing government.
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.480
It's like, oh, okay, you're suspended from duties for a little while, but then you can live on.
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:56.880
Yeah.
00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:06.880
And I look the I mean it makes sense, obviously, looking at it, the way they solved the problem was they just recalled the New South Whale Corps and they they replaced them with a different regiment.
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:12.799
And Macquarie was sent and became the new governor of New South Wales.
00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:17.680
So presumably MacArthur in Sydney is named after this chap, right?
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:18.160
Aaron Powell Yes.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:30.720
So there's a lot of um yeah, a lot of names that are re recognizable, uh whether they be electorates or um other other sections of um yeah, it's a lot of sheep.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.200
Yeah, he was a grazier and did wool.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:34.160
Wool was his thing.
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.920
Well, since the World Cup's on, there is a football team called MacArthur Rams.
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:38.640
Yeah.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:39.359
There you go.
00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.960
Yeah, well, that's part of Sydney, and um yeah, that's exactly how that worked out.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:43.599
Yeah.
00:19:43.839 --> 00:20:00.880
Uh and I think, yeah, if you look at the history of the New South Wales colony under Macquarie, that's when it sort of um yeah, established itself, but it was also Sydney's expansion, um, increasing numbers of sort of clashes with the uh local indigenous population, etc.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:18.799
Um Macquarie is celebrated, but also I think he was probably celebrated for the first hundred and seventy years after um the establishment of the Sydney colony, but again, more recent um investigations into how he dealt with um and engaged with the local population.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:23.039
The local indigenous population have kind of complicated that legacy somewhat.
00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:28.000
So yeah, a lot of big a lot of big character, main character energy in this Rum Rebellion going on.
00:20:28.160 -->
00:20:31.920
These guys were Yeah, they were they were pitted against each other.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:38.880
Bly, interesting character, um, picked the fight with the wrong people, basically, and had no friends to back him up.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:41.759
So Yeah, because authority only goes so far, yeah.
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.640
If if and that this is what we learn on this podcast all the time.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.599
Like you can't overthrow a government if you've got people backing you.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:57.039
No matter what titles you have, whatever armies you or regiments you think back you, if they don't actually do it when it matters, then it's all just nil and void.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:57.839
And it's just a title.
00:20:58.079 --> 00:20:59.440
Yeah, what do they really care about?
00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.559
Um Did Bly get another job once he got back to the Trevor Burrus.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:05.440
He became an admiral, so yeah, he was he he served in the Navy.
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:07.119
He died in 1817, I think.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:09.039
Yeah.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:09.920
Okay.
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:11.119
Just keeps coming back.
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:12.400
Interesting period.
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.440
So that was the first uh decade of the 19th century.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:16.000
Correct.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:17.039
Rum Rebellion.
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:17.759
Rum Rebellion.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:21.119
For everyone who started listening a little late, why was it called Rum Rebellion again?
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:22.160
Were they all on Rum?
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.759
No, it's an interesting one.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:25.680
Um I think it was reframed.
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:39.119
They used the name Rum Rebellion to try to suggest that the reason these people um mounted this military coup was that they were depraved alcoholics.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.759
And that reframing of this narrative came during the peak of the temperance movement.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:48.880
So people were alcohol was seen as, you know, the devil's liquid.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:57.680
And this was just one way of proving that this was something that you needed to abstain from because it would drive people to commit crazy acts of treason.
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:10.240
Um, but I don't know, I think we've held on to it because it Is rum was, you know, it was significant in terms of um the economy and yeah, it it it's an engaging it's an engaging handle for uh for a it's catchy.
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:10.799
Yeah, it's catchy.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.000
It got minded catchy.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.799
Um so we we put that in the in the reels to promote this podcast.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:16.799
Rum and then did that actually happen?
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:17.440
It did.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:22.079
New South Wales, as we call it nowadays, but the New South Wales was a lot different to what it was.
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:31.039
One last thing that I've written big letters here that I would like to add um it also the Rum Rebellion also spawned Australia's first ever political cartoon.
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:53.759
So there was a a picture of Bly or a cartoon of Bly um being dragged out from under the servants' beds in um Government House that was published in a public forum, not in the newspapers, it was also like the first art exhibition in Sydney was basically humiliating this guy and trying to depict him as a coward.
00:22:53.920 --> 00:23:01.119
So that was the narrative that was run with immediately after the yeah, after his overthrow.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:03.359
I I I want to read a book about Bly.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:04.880
I'm really fascinated now.
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.359
What a liar.
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:06.000
Interesting character.
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:07.599
There's other stuff too.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:15.759
But he has this consistent, it's just consistently belligerent and he's consistently like getting people offside.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:19.839
The more he fails, the more successfully becomes.
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.200
He would have grown up the most I mean, pretty brutal.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.039
Brutal living circumstances.
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:35.359
Yeah.
00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:40.480
Well, like the only person that actually tried to defend him and prevent the overthrow.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:50.000
There's actually a boy as well that plays one of the key roles on the on the mutiny as well, and that would have been been him, like 30, 40 years earlier or something like that.
00:23:50.799 --> 00:24:03.839
Well, apparently the only person that stood up for Bly and tried to prevent the overthrow from happening was his daughter, who met the New South Wales Corps at the gates of Government House with an umbrella and was like swinging it at them and saying, like, get out of here, what are you doing?
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.759
Well they pushed past.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.599
So, like there were yeah, there was no there was no blood spilled, so bloodless coup.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:13.359
Um, and then it just became an administrative nightmare for the for Britain.
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:21.119
So I think they were very happy to recall the New South Wales Corps to have Macquarie in place and just like okay, yeah, just get on with it.
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:22.640
No more headaches, thank you.
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:36.480
Yeah, and just confirming all on the backs of indigenous people who would have called us home uh only a few decades earlier, displaced, driven off their land, and then there's white men fighting each other over that land, money and power already, just a few decades in.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:42.559
So it wasn't really a an a new paradise, new world sort of spirit anymore.
00:24:42.799 --> 00:24:44.240
Because we haven't done that episode.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:55.920
I want to do it one day, but it does remind me a fair bit of Christopher Columbus when he became governor of Hispaniola, and then he was the poses was overthrown as well because even the Spanish uh crown thought he went a bit overboard.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:25:00.319
Yeah, the way he he behaved and and treated uh indigenous people as well.
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:01.279
That's it.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:01.680
Thanks.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.160
Uh topic number one on our special.
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:08.000
Um again, we've got three topics today, all Australian topics.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:13.920
Um many people in the world think there was never a rebellious soul in this country, but there have been, and we changed.
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:16.720
We are like very, very obedient.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.680
Oh, absolutely.
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.799
Very, very obedient.
00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:24.000
Compared to Russia, France, South American countries.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.920
Um But there's attempts, and that's what it's about today.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:32.880
But you said officially that's the only military coup in our state.
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.640
Well, which call it one you want, coup d'etat, military coup, overthrow of a government.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:38.079
1808 Rum Rebellion.
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:43.839
Official, you can you can say that there are others which were coups, but well, that's that's a topic for another podcast.
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:44.880
Excellent.
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.920
Now that brings us to a second guest here today, uh co-host James Bennett.
00:25:52.319 --> 00:26:00.799
James, you've you're in the middle of this, still in the 19th century, and I claim that your topic is probably the most known one, at least in Australia.
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:06.160
So if you ask anyone on the streets, especially of a certain generation, they've probably heard of today's topic.
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:09.200
However, most of uh Putchka's followers are now overseas.
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:10.880
By the way, we're in over 70 countries.
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:11.680
Can you believe it?
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:12.720
Pretty exciting.
00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.119
So we cracked that not a few weeks ago.
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:17.200
Um, so just give us a bit of context.
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:18.000
What's your topic?
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:19.279
Okay, guys and girls.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.640
This is for all the people out there who haven't followed Australian history pretty closely.
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.119
Um, and it's not something that I actually knew about at all.
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:30.640
But like Oliver says it, it probably is the most sort of, I guess, well-known.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:31.759
What's renowned, yeah.
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.920
Particularly with the Eureka flag, which I will explain about in a moment.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:37.599
But basically, I'll set the scene.
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:45.519
So 1851, um, gold was discovered in Victoria, which is in the west, I believe.
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:46.720
Ballarat.
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:50.400
So it's south of the continent, but in the South of the continent, okay.
00:26:50.559 --> 00:26:52.240
So yeah, west of Victoria.
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:54.559
I had to look this word up because I didn't understand it.
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:56.799
Apparently the gold was alluvial.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:58.559
Does anyone know what that means?
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:00.799
Oliver, do you know what that means as the host?
00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.720
Extremely pure?
00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:04.640
Yeah, who knows what it means.
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.920
Doesn't that mean it's kind of sitting close to the surface and you can just dig it up?
00:27:08.079 --> 00:27:08.960
Ah, well done.
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.759
That's why there's a lot of panning going on, it's floating around.
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.400
Yeah.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:12.960
Exactly.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:14.880
Alluvial means near the surface.
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:20.079
So basically alluvial means that it's very like easy to access.
00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:25.599
So there's uh, I suppose not there's not a high barrier to entry into the bigger.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.599
You don't have to freelance a deep mind.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:29.519
Freelancers can can get at it.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:30.240
Absolutely.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.000
Which is exactly what happens.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.839
Um so this is about in 18, yeah, 1851.
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.440
So as a consequence, what happened was that they had they actually had a problem.
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:45.680
I was reading about this, a lot of people just quit their jobs, even in Victoria, and just went up there to like chance their arm at getting it.
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:46.880
Get rich very quick, right?
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:47.599
Yeah, get rich very quickly.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:48.880
As long as you can work a shovel.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:49.599
Pretty much.
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:53.039
As normally happens, a lot of people came to Australia.
00:27:53.119 --> 00:28:01.519
So you had a lot of Americans, Canadians, British, Irish, uh, a lot of Chinese came as well to to get the gold.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:09.119
Um and so, I mean, Australia was obviously still a very new colony at the moment, country, you know, it was before Federation.
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:16.000
So you had a whole load of people go into a relatively small area very, very quickly.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:20.079
So one of the consequences was that infrastructure really struggled.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:24.640
Okay, a lot of these guys were living in tents in shacks on these mines.
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:28.000
And so the colonial authorities wanted to sort this out.
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.559
They obviously wanted a cut of all of this gold.
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:35.920
What the colonial authorities did was they issued what was called mining licenses.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:47.920
So this was basically a mining license was basically saying, you know, in order to mine for gold, you have to pay us money to give us these, and we'll give you a mining license.
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:58.240
But the only difference is is that normally these licenses or licenses would be considered sort of like if you get gold, then you would give us a cut.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:03.440
But the only difference is with these mining licenses, you had to pay for them, regardless of if you found them.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:08.400
So you pay up front for the right to go and dig, as opposed to paying a commission on what you find.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:09.519
Here's an analogy.
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:10.559
It's like a fishing license.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.640
You have to pay for it no matter if you catch a fish or not.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:13.359
Pretty much.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:13.599
Yeah.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:15.839
Sounds like my way of fishing.
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:16.160
Yeah.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:16.640
Yeah.
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.000
That's how I fish as well.
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:18.400
Good.
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:18.880
It's the best.
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:20.319
I don't even get a license.
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.480
But anyway, well, I don't catch anything, so it doesn't matter.
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:23.599
Let's take that out.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:24.240
Thank you.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:25.359
Authorities are watching.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:27.119
Victoria Police take note.
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:31.359
The mining license was um imposed.
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.839
This was really unpopular amongst everybody.
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:35.440
It was kind of like a poll tax.
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:39.359
Um, so a lot of these guys weren't very happy about it.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:43.599
And apparently the colonial authorities were not very nice about enforcing it.
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:46.480
So there was a governor called Charles Hotham.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.680
Um he came in in about 1954.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:30:01.680
And like I think William Bly, he seemed to have like a sort of a unique combination of uh lack of people skills, bit of a dictator, not very good, basically.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.240
He was basically incompetent and failed upwards.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:09.839
Now, leading up to that, there were a few um, I guess, miscarriages of justice.
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:18.160
There was a bloke called James Scobie, who was a Scottish miner, and he was killed by a publican called Bentley.
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:20.960
Um who the Bentley Hotel up there.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:27.599
Anyway, went to trial, Bentley got off, and this caused like a massive ruction, um, a fair amount of trouble.
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:31.759
And there was this hotel was burnt down um as a consequence.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.880
I guess a febrile atmosphere, you would call it.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:35.920
Weird.
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:47.839
Um, and like one of the things that struck me when I was reading it was that a lot of these miners that came across, they were saying that they were quite um politically engaged.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.839
You know, they weren't just like forced labour.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.759
These were guys that had seen an opportunity and had came over.
00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:09.119
They reckon there was a lot of um, I suppose, influence from sort of like particularly from the Irish miners because they had come over from colonial Ireland, they weren't too keen, obviously, on the British colonial authorities.
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:19.119
Yeah, and then simultaneously have people from the US, so they they have free-spirited people, they they used to not having a They said about the US and like the Republican movement and stuff like that as well.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:19.440
Yeah.
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:22.960
How does this work timing-wise compared to the California gold rush?
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:27.839
Like have you got people who are experienced in that sense coming from America to Australia?
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:28.240
I don't know.
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.359
When was the gold game?
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:30.319
There was a gold rush.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:30.640
Yeah.
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:32.160
Um we looked that up.
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.759
We would drop the number on the screen.
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:35.359
We have a YouTube channel.
00:31:36.559 --> 00:31:38.480
The miners weren't happy about this.
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:43.279
They felt there had been a miscarriage of justice, the mining licenses came into it.
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.480
So they called what was called the Ballarat Reform League.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:48.319
So it's sort of like organized labor.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:48.960
Okay.
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:55.839
So anyway, the Eureka flag is Does anyone know, able to describe the Eureka flag?
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:56.960
Dave, you seem to know a bit.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:57.920
It's blue.
00:31:58.160 --> 00:31:58.559
Blue.
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.000
It's got a white cross on it.
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:00.480
Yeah.
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:00.880
Alright.
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.240
It's got like five stars on it.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:02.960
Five stars.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:04.880
Is that meant to resemble the Southern Cross in a way?
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:05.359
Yes.
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.119
That's the Southern Cross constellation.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:16.000
In a more kind of geometric arrangement rather than the true sense of the one of the things I read about it is it doesn't have the British flag on there.
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:16.960
Like that was taken out.
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:18.240
Doesn't have the Union
Jack.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:22.880
But um I I thought uh when I came here, because I saw it a lot.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.839
I don't think it's as prominent anymore as it used to be a few decades ago.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:30.079
But I thought it had a Scottish connection just because of the colours, the blue and the white.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:40.559
Um but you talked about Irish minors and it doesn't seem to have like any type of ethnic like ethnic origin in terms of like it came from a particular place.
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:40.960
Yeah.
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:43.839
Like obviously what we were talking about earlier, like the Eureka moment.
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:48.160
Does anyone want to talk tell me where the Eureka moment came from?
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.920
I know the word eureka.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.880
It's like what you're meant to yell out when you find something you've been looking for.
00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:53.279
Yeah.
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:54.000
It's a good word.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.200
I actually couldn't find anything as to why it's called the Eureka flag.
00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:58.799
Does anyone else know?
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:00.799
Not sure why it is.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:06.799
Is it the one it was hoisted above the the barricades at this particular incident?
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:11.839
Did it take the name from that particular incident?
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:13.359
Is that where the flag got its name?
00:33:13.599 --> 00:33:14.000
I don't know.
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:14.960
That's the question I'm asking.
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.279
Aaron Ross Powell So the flag was created by what was called the Ballarat Reform League.
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:29.119
So this was before like the Trevor Burrus So it was the Ballarat Reform League flag, which then took on the significance as the Eureka flag after this incident.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.960
Which explains why it's still very prominent on Australian building sites because unions are still using that very flag.
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:42.160
But I don't think I don't think it was it wasn't called the Eureka flag when it was probably something that's sort of come about from that.
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:49.519
What happened after this was that the miners built what was called a stockade, which is why it's called a Eureka stockade.
00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:52.720
My reading of it, it was kind of almost like a bit of a shack.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.559
So it was like a fortification.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.839
So like a um barricade.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:33:59.039
Yeah, a barricade.
00:33:59.119 --> 00:33:59.359
Yeah.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:33:59.839
Okay.
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:04.160
Was it intended to be like a defensive structure or was it just like a clubhouse?
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:05.519
I think it was like a meeting place.
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:05.759
Yeah.
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:07.279
From what I can gather.
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:13.920
The colonial authorities decided that this wasn't gonna um fly.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:22.480
So they attacked in the morning of um let me see, it was the 3rd of December 1854.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:24.239
So they attacked before dawn.
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.840
They reckon they did this because they wanted the miners to not be prepared.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.199
Apparently the miners weren't very well uh armed.
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.880
Twenty-two miners were killed.
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:35.599
Four soldiers were killed.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:36.639
Why not?
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:43.599
What are the um probably mythologies about it is that there was this massive battle, this massive fight.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.639
Um from what I've read, it took about 15 minutes.
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:47.599
Yeah.
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:49.360
So they didn't put up much of a fight.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:35:00.239
And 170 years later, we're still talking about which probably gives us all some context of Australia being a very conservative Pacific country.
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:00.960
Passive.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.760
Passive, yeah.
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:05.840
So there's relatively small events, uh quite significant in the history of Australia.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:06.320
Yeah.
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:06.559
Yeah.
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.000
Which is a good thing, yeah.
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:14.800
For context, it's a good thing that we don't have much more bloodshed um in in those early days.
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.719
But just in summary, it's all about taxes in the end, right?
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.679
That's what it sounds like.
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:21.360
So there's a gold rush.
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:21.679
Yep.
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:26.400
And again, in in David's episode, we talked about it's still a very colonial structure.
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:32.800
Um, it's it's you know, you got a governor as well, so that's representing the the the king at the time here.
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:33.360
Yeah.
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.159
Um but the people here don't want to borrow it.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:41.599
They're like, no, we want to live our own way the way we think because we're not in England and that's probably why we left.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:49.119
Well, no, so in actual fact, one of the things I read was that this wasn't like a war of like independence.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:56.559
Like the miners, the miners weren't sort of thinking that they wanted to separate from like the UK or whatever.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.039
It was more like you say, it was more like a rebellion.
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.039
Like a mini Boston Tea Party, right?
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:01.599
Kind of.
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:03.840
Very, very, very miniature.
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:04.639
Yeah, okay.
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:13.119
So um, but this wasn't a uh I guess a rebellion in the way that you may like in terms
of like a coup or anything like that.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:17.599
It was more like you say, it was like things to do like workers' rights, it was lots to do with this mining license.
00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:20.000
Sort of like government overreach as well.
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.480
Yeah.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:30.239
Um but one of the interesting things is that the miners were caught, the miners that were arrested that didn't die were charged with high treason.
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:35.039
Um subsequent trials, they were all acquitted by jury.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:47.679
So there was a lot of public support for the miners, and there was also um, I guess, a lot of concern about the overreach of the authorities at that time.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.519
Which again blows my mind.
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:52.159
It's so reflective of what you just what you just said, right?
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:56.400
So I mean simultaneously we've got indigenous rights trampled, right?
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:01.440
Like there's massacres happening, human rights don't play a role, even though they're also subjects of the crown.
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:21.679
Um but then Dave, you and I we did an episode on the Paris Commune, France, middle of Europe, 20 odd years later, and thousands of people just get slaughtered by the authorities, no trials, no questions asked, and they build a church on top, problems solve.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.599
Here we are on the other side of the world, in in the wilderness, really.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:27.360
Like we're talking effectively.
00:37:27.679 --> 00:37:31.760
You know, there would have been a few houses, it it's nothing like we think of Australia today.
00:37:32.000 --> 00:37:35.039
I don't know what the population was, a few thousand people, I would say, in Belarus.
00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:36.320
It wouldn't have been much.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:43.280
And and very temporary, because in Australia we do have those deserted mining towns that are now just a couple of ruins in the bush and they're left.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:52.639
But then still you have that sense of English judicial system and justice, and they actually bothered putting a jury together.
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:56.559
And everywhere else they would have just been hung and that's it.
00:37:56.960 --> 00:38:00.800
Well, they were charged with high treason, which was uh It's a political thing, right?
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:01.599
Yeah, sure.
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:04.639
But like capital punishment would have followed had they been found guilty.
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:05.920
Oh, okay, they would have been hanged, yeah.
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:06.800
Yeah, they would have been hanged.
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:07.360
Yeah, okay.
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:18.159
An interesting thing that in 1855 was that the mining licenses were revoked and a more sort of equitable uh system was put in place.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:30.800
Also, one of the guys that was part of, I suppose, the rebellion was a guy called uh Peter Leyler, who was a miner from uh Ireland that had come over here.
00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:38.159
He eventually became, I think he became yeah, the speaker of the Victorian Assembly in later life.
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:40.480
He also lost an arm as well.
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:42.079
He had an arm amputated.
00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:44.880
We had an arm story in the Mexican episode, remember?
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:45.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:46.719
What happened to it?
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:49.119
He lost it, founded, and rolled back to hospital with it?
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.159
And that is a monument for the arm.
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:55.599
It wasn't stitched back on, it didn't grow back.
00:38:56.559 --> 00:38:57.360
No, I don't think Peter still.
00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:58.480
He didn't want to leave it on the arm.
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:00.239
Only only on Putcast.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:02.880
Um so this is 1850s.
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:07.440
This was 1855 that the uh licenses were revoked, yeah.
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:09.519
A more equitable system was put in place.
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:24.320
One of the things is that people talk about, well, because of this rebellion, because of like the things to do with like workers' rights and stuff like that, was that although the miners lost like, I suppose, the battle in quotation marks, yeah.
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.800
Um they won like the wider war.
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:32.400
The moral victory was theirs because it brought in reforms um afterwards.
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:35.599
Sets a precedent for the way that Australia grew up, right?
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:36.320
Absolutely.
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.400
Let's talk about myth building here.
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:40.320
You're a history teacher, David.
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:57.280
So this could have just been forgotten, never mentioned again, and it really would not even be a footnote in Australian history if there I think would have been bigger, more violent events following like the War of Independence in America, you know, revolutions overthrow, parliament houses burned down.
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:58.719
None of this ever happened in Australia.
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:00.079
Again, a very good thing.
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:12.239
Um, do you think what that this then led to this becoming such an iconic moment in history that a flag is still flown on every building site these days that that dates back to that moment in history?
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:18.960
Not to mention uh most school kids in Victoria would still probably visit Ballarat, Sovereign Hill.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:19.679
Sovereign Hill.
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:20.000
Yeah.
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:23.440
And if you learn about the intricacies of the Eure Eureka stockade.
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.440
It's still part of the primary school curriculum.
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:31.519
I think they
touch on it briefly in maybe not in year nine anymore, but it it it's still embedded.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:32.400
Yeah, it's still embedded.
00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:44.639
But I also think that you know, like what you were saying is that because Australia back then was so small, and because it was probably so sort of like I don't know, like would parochial be the right word?
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.000
That's a pretty good word for it.
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:52.960
Yeah, like things which would seem pretty small take on like an outsized significance.
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.159
Because in that society back then it was a big deal.
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:57.199
It would have been, yeah.
00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:04.159
You know, you had basically a load of convicts, you had a load of prison officers that had come over, then you had all these free miners that had come over.
00:41:04.400 --> 00:41:09.440
Like you'd have had a lot of sort of, I guess, um, interesting individuals.
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:12.000
But and it was just a small microcosm.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:33.039
David, you just told us it's still in the curriculum, students living in Victoria in the south of Australia still visit a an outdoor museum called Sovereign Hill, uh, in the town of Bellaret, which is where the Eureka stockade took place um all those years ago, which again shows us that it was a significant event by Australian standards.
00:41:33.679 --> 00:41:35.119
Sovereign Hill.
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:41.599
It's traced back to that very moment that Australia became a nation because nation building is so important for Australia.
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:50.239
And Federation in 1901 wasn't that, you know, um, that trigger moment, like in other countries where you now have a national holiday based on that.
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.920
Australia didn't really have that.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:57.199
So is that why it was myth building, or does it deserve the place in history that it has?
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:10.320
I think when there's the first significant act of political resistance, um those things are usually, irrespective of how big they are, you know, in a country, sometimes they can take on uh a significance.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:11.679
And again, we've had nothing since.
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:16.559
Like you said, we were talking about how we are um fundamentally a very obedient country.
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:24.079
Uh so this as yeah, a challenge of government power, like you were saying, James, government overreach, workers' rights.
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:25.760
I think there's a confluence of things here.
00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:34.239
I remember as a primary school kid in the 1980s, almost this kind of martyrdom of these miners who suffered at the hands of the government.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:36.719
Um they who knows what they were actually like.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:43.039
They might have just been drunks who are caught unawares, sleeping in and um butchered by the government, but we don't know.
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:49.840
But yes, I mean at Sovereign Hill, they have a s a light show spectacular and a reenactment of the stockade.
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:53.760
It's one of the big events that you can go and um buy additional tickets to.
00:42:53.920 --> 00:43:09.760
So it still has the imagination of I don't know if we would say it's in the collective Australian imagination, but it's just it's definitely something that the majority of children who go to primary school um in Australia would be able to recognise and point out about Australian history.
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.960
Trevor Burrus, but but it's also like a larger thing about like the stories that nations tell themselves, right?
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:15.440
Yeah.
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:15.840
You know.
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:20.480
And it is like a almost like a finding like a f a finding story.
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.599
Political consciousness, maybe something like that.
00:43:24.000 --> 00:43:24.159
Sure.
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:24.800
Yeah.
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.119
Australia's growing up at this stage.
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:31.199
It's it's sort of an adolescent nation, I guess, is probably the way to describe it.
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.800
And uh m mum and dad England is uh is being more frequently rebelled against.
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.840
And it was uh it was multicultural already, as we've mentioned.
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:40.960
So it was people from all over the world.
00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:43.920
Yeah, correct.
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:46.639
And then it was rained back in uh fifty years, sixty years ago.
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:56.719
But it's also it's also interesting, like in terms of like why this particular story they decided to amplify it.
00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.599
Because yes, it is awakening of like your political.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.440
Conscience or whatever.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:09.199
But you could also see how governments or historians may be asked to play it down a little bit more in some respects.
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:19.119
Because you know, it does show I mean like kind of like if you like if you start a rebellion or whatever, then reforms can come in after.
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:28.400
It's just because I mean I don't think that something like this could have been there was there was probably so many things like this that had happened, but they never made it into the history books.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.360
So why this particular?
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:30.800
Yeah.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:32.239
Should I I don't know.
00:44:32.400 --> 00:44:36.719
I I I think it's about the sense of fairness, which is part of the the Australian psyche.
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:42.559
So Ballarat might not have been at this time, but was soon to be the richest city in the world.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:42.960
Okay.
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:46.639
Um so the distribution of wealth extremely
unequal.
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:54.239
Um and this is about people, I guess, getting a getting a fair go on getting their fair share, which is definitely part of uh the way Australians see themselves.
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.480
Yeah, the gold rush, the big equalizer, right?
00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:10.639
So getting away from that old hierarchical society in Europe and starting fresh here, and your title name didn't matter, but picking up gold from the streets basically on a creek uh could change your life for good, um, with all the bad stuff it came with.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:12.400
Now, here we are on Putschcast.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:21.199
Uh, this is a special episode you might remember, and uh, we're talking about Australia and moments of rebellion and even the coup that we've learned about today.
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.599
First of all, it's the Rum Rebellion in 1808.
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:28.320
Uh great name, interesting story, and the only documented coup in Australian history.
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:35.039
James, you just told us about the Eureka stockade, which is still known in the Australian psyche and taught in schools, as you told us, Dave.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:39.280
The next one, Dave Sloan, I've never heard about, I have to be honest.
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:41.920
Um, it has something to do with sheep or a lamb.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:45.679
And we've moved on almost 10 years, so we're in the 1860s now.
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:46.480
What is your topic?
00:45:46.719 --> 00:45:48.239
Look, we are still in the gold rush.
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.639
Uh, we're talking about the lambing flat riots.
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:53.360
It doesn't actually have anything to do with a lamb or a sheep.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:56.239
That's just the uh the name that goes with this particular place.
00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:01.119
Uh, but this is really adjacent to what we just heard uh uh about the Eureka stockade.
00:46:01.280 --> 00:46:05.119
Um so just to set the scene a little bit, definitely gold rush times.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:09.840
Now, the gold rush in Australia uh I think kind of roughly kicked off in about 1850.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.039
And it started in a lot of different places at once.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:28.960
Uh, this concept of alluvial gold, which we just talked about, which is gold that's kind of close to the surface of the earth and relatively easy to access with a pick and a shovel or like with a pan at a creek, uh, you can find yourself a nugget and uh and go home a wealthier person.
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:33.599
Um that concept in Australia uh created the gold rush.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:36.880
Um, masses of immigration um all at once.
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:41.119
I think the geography of Australia's got something to play here as well.
00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:49.679
Um I think at the time that we were talking about the Rum Rebellion, basically the whole population of Australia is isolated to the uh to
the east coast.
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:58.400
Um there's a thing called the dividing range, uh, which is you know big lumpy mountains that are kind of hard to cross that was basically keeping the population coastal.
00:46:58.719 --> 00:47:08.960
And uh in the early 1800s, I think it was uh somewhere about 1817, uh people first crossed the dividing range and effectively opened up the whole of the inside of Australia.
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.719
So not many people, huge expanse of land, and there's bits of gold lying around.
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:19.119
Uh so if you can find one and pick it up, you know, you're you're a wealthy person.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:26.000
That's the dynamic um that is causing the gold rush and is causing this place to explode.
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:42.719
So uh all of a sudden, um, there's this wealth dynamic, um, there's I guess a loss of control as well, because the government um or the um uh yeah, the the government that's in place really isn't big enough or broad enough to be able to keep all these things uh under control.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:45.519
So there's a lot of chaos going on around the place.
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:52.239
Um a little bit about uh Australia at this point in time.
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:54.719
Uh I think we I mentioned this just a moment ago.
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:56.639
It's got this adolescence about it.
00:47:56.800 --> 00:48:00.079
So it's sort of growing out of its English parentage.
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:08.159
Um and that kind of psychology um uh is really sort of starting to play out in the way that people are behaving.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.440
If you look at the immigration question, we've got tens of thousands of people coming into the country.
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:19.119
They're coming from primarily Europe and America, but there's also heaps of Chinese people coming in.
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.400
Now that's supported by the English government at this time.
00:48:22.559 --> 00:48:27.039
Running parallel, uh the opium wars have just concluded.
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:31.280
Uh there are agreements and treaties between the English government and the Chinese.
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.920
Um, Hong Kong's been handed over, Kowloon has been handed to the English as well.
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:44.480
Um, and in compensation, uh, the English are basically supporting uh and encouraging distribution of Chinese people into British colonies.
00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:50.079
Um now that sounds great, but the people in Australia are like, hang on a second, why are you sending them all here?
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:56.000
Um we want this wealth for ourselves, and that's creating a bit of resentment and um uh I guess part of the challenge.
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:57.119
All these things are going on.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.000
This place called Lambing Flat is in the middle of New South Wales.
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.719
There's nothing there except alluvial gold.
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:03.599
Um Lambing Flat.
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.239
Can you give us a modern day geographic anchor point?
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.519
Yeah, so Lambing Flat is not a place.
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:11.920
You won't find it on a map now.
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:16.159
Um it was basically the name of a paddock where uh where this mining was going on.
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:17.440
Very Australian, by the way.
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:19.920
Historic event named after a paddock.
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:20.480
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:21.599
Named after a nice paddock.
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:22.559
I'm sure it was a nice place.
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:25.760
Um today there is a town called Young just there.
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:31.360
Um so it's in kind of uh central southeast New South Wales.
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:39.360
Um if you looked at a map and saw Australia's capital, which is Canberra, uh it's probably about 150 kilometers northwest of there.
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:39.760
Okay.
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:42.559
So it it's a it's middle of nowhere ish, right?
00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:42.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.639
Um and it it's generally speaking, it's a nice place.
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.440
Um uh I think a lot of farming and orcharding and all that sort of stuff still goes on there today.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.599
There is no gold mining going on there today.
00:49:53.760 --> 00:50:02.800
So in in fact, even though the gold rush uh very much existed and there were people out there digging up like crazy, um, there aren't significant amounts of gold.
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.119
Uh so you know, it it turned out to be folly.
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:11.519
One of the things that's going on here though, we've got tens of thousands of people who are out in Australia trying to find gold.
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:13.519
There's a whole heap of Chinese people.
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:20.079
Um, and there's a pretty interesting cultural dynamic that's going on where we've got Australians and Europeans that are pretty happy-go-lucky.
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:24.480
They're disorganized, they're probably drunk most of the time, just going for broke, right?
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:32.159
They're digging holes, they're impulsive, um, probably um uh impatient, I guess, in the way that they go about it.
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:38.719
Then you've got Chinese miners who are organized, methodical, and really bring the industry, I guess, with them.
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:40.400
Well, they work very hard.
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:42.400
The Chinese.
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:43.360
Uh yes.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:43.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.320
So they're like professional miners.
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:48.400
Uh it i yes.
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:53.119
Um there's uh there are Chinese immigrants who are basically paid miners.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:53.599
Okay.
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:57.760
And there are Chinese
immigrants who are mining of their own accord.
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:09.920
The ones who are paid miners uh are working for relatively cheap wages and they're happy to do that because they're more frugal than their Australian or European counterparts, and that's another sort of source of resentment.
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.199
Um, but uh being organized themselves to go about this mining, um, it's really effective.
00:51:15.280 --> 00:51:16.880
Um they don't give up easily.
00:51:17.119 --> 00:51:24.159
They work hard, they work long hours, and funnily enough, they're more successful than their Australian and European counterparts.
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:26.079
And this makes people cranky, right?
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:37.599
So and at the start of 1861, so this is in summer of 1861, things start to get a bit sort of disgruntled, I guess, um, because the Europeans are getting upset with the Chinese.
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:39.360
The Chinese are more successful.
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:51.840
Um and at the same time, in uh the New South Wales Parliament, uh they're attempting to pass an act to exclude Chinese immigrants from Australia, or at least sort of control Chinese immigration.
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:52.159
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:51:52.320 --> 00:52:04.320
Just for historical or global context, this is the year the American Civil War started, which was all about race and the discriminating against people based on their ethnic origin.
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.599
So that might have influenced the way of thinking at least.
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:07.920
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:09.440
When they had the gold rush in California.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:11.119
They had all the Chinese go over there.
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:11.519
They did.
00:52:11.840 --> 00:52:14.639
And they excluded they were excluded from the states as well, weren't they?
00:52:14.960 --> 00:52:16.880
I think there was a lot of issues around that.
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:17.199
Yeah.
00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:20.880
And from what I understand, it it's that similar sort of dynamic, right?
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:25.920
Um, where you know people kind of organized and working hard were resented because of their effectiveness.
00:52:26.079 --> 00:52:44.000
Trevor Burrus, Jr.: So the New South Wales Parliament uh is sort of at the nexus of the uh the English encouraging Chinese migration into Australia and the Australian population kind of resenting the presence of uh Chinese gold miners because you know they're um they're taking our wealth.
00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:47.360
Um and they're attempting to pass this bill.
00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:50.000
Um what happens in the middle of 1861?
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.800
Um, A, that bill fails.
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:56.400
Um it does come back again later, but it fails at that point in time.
00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:04.559
Um and in this place called Lambing Flat, you've got about 3,000 sort of European and Australian miners, you've got about 2,000 Chinese miners.
00:53:05.039 --> 00:53:06.159
So there's a lot of people.
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:12.159
Um similar to how you described Ballarat a little earlier, uh, there's not a lot of infrastructure here, right?
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:18.480
People are living in tents, uh, they're like the the gold minings are um are fairly unsophisticated.
00:53:18.559 --> 00:53:22.559
They're just digging as deep as a human can with a shovel and then moving on to the next spot.
00:53:22.719 --> 00:53:24.639
So it's that sort of stuff going on.
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:32.480
Um they get themselves organized uh and they choose to try and drive the Chinese off the gold fields, right?
00:53:32.800 --> 00:53:42.880
Um so there is a major riot that uh I guess is the culmination of a fair bit of angst that builds up over time, and 2,000 Chinese people get driven out.
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.519
It's fairly non-bloody, right?
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:47.199
No one dies at this point in time.
00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:47.599
Okay.
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:52.960
It's brutal, um, and I guess probably fairly thuggish, but non-bloody.
00:53:53.199 --> 00:53:56.800
Um there is a there is a banner, there's a flag that still exists.
00:53:56.880 --> 00:54:07.599
It's uh kept in a museum, and I'll probably find an image for it so that we can stick it up on on YouTube, but it's uh it basically says roll up at the top and it says no Chinese in in huge letters.
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:21.440
Um there are some sympathizers, so there's um uh there's a family who keep a farm not too far far away, and they kind of shelter and accommodate thousands of Chinese people for a number of days and uh and sort of protect them.
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:34.880
Um there are journalists who uh are basically risking their lives to tell this story uh as it is and uh getting all sorts of backlash from uh from the uh the local organized miners.
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:37.360
But this thing kind of boils on for a couple of days.
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:52.000
The Chinese get pushed off the land, uh police do turn up, and where the real violence happens and where the one person who dies in this whole episode gets killed is when police engage with uh the Australian and European miners that actually instigated the whole thing.
00:54:52.239 --> 00:55:01.760
Eventually, there are a couple of hundred soldiers that are brought to the area and they stay there for a period of 12 months to calm everything down and get it back under control.
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:18.880
So this event, you know, it's not massive, um, but in the scheme of things, it's pretty significant because it really is about uh it really is about racism and it's about uh immigration and you know racial acceptance in uh in this new country of Australia.
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:37.920
Um what does happen is the New South Wales government does pass legislation, um, and there's a thing called, let me just check my notes, uh the
Chinese Immigrants Regulation and Restriction Act, which is a precursor really uh to the White Australia policy, which takes effect in 1901.
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:38.320
Okay.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:49.599
Um so this as a as a little example basically uh sets the scene for institutionalization um of anti-immigration in Australia.
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.159
So it's a significant, a really important event.
00:55:52.320 --> 00:56:13.119
And if you think about the effect of the White Australia policy, which more or less precluded or attempted to preclude anyone that wasn't from Europe uh from immigrating to Australia from 1901 until you know, like the mid-1950s, um, this is uh having a substantial effect on the way that Australia grew up and the way that we um uh you know the way that we've developed.
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:15.519
So pretty interesting little story.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.400
Aaron Powell So the Lambing Flat Riots.
00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.079
That's and it's about ethnic cleansing, isn't it?
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:24.400
That really is a form of ethnic cleansing.
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:25.599
It is, it is.
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:32.159
I mean, it's not uh that that term for me has sort of connotations of genocide and it's not that's what happened to indigenous people.
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:36.400
But it's uh it's a complete um lack of acceptance, right?
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:42.239
We don't we don't want you here, is the statement that's after inviting them to do all the dirty work and then when they're actually successful.
00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:43.119
Yeah, exactly.
00:56:43.280 --> 00:56:48.880
Um But I mean, you at the time, Europeans weren't didn't all see eye to eye either.
00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:53.840
Like even when you look at the Irish and the English, and back then the division was usually on religion, right?
00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:00.800
So Catholic versus Protestant was a huge um dividing line in in in the colony at the time.
00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:06.079
Um did they unite against the common enemy that were the Chinese?
00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:08.880
Yeah, that's that's the way I take it, yeah, absolutely.
00:57:09.039 --> 00:57:18.320
So the you know, the the 3,000 Australian and Europeans uh that were there that um uh that basically drove the the Chinese out um got organized around this cause.
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:20.880
Do you know what happened to the Chinese after?
00:57:21.280 --> 00:57:23.519
Uh they dispersed.
00:57:23.599 --> 00:57:26.000
They didn't necessarily go back to China, right?
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:26.239
No.
00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:32.239
Um so um they probably moved on to other gold fields or went uh went elsewhere in the country.
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:43.280
Uh absolutely uh there were a lot of Chinese in many, many places around Australia at this time, um uh all doing the same thing basically.
00:57:43.360 --> 00:57:44.719
It was alluvial gold mining.
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:45.760
They
were really good at it.
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:48.719
Um and uh they were heavily engaged.
00:57:48.800 --> 00:58:11.840
So the other population that many people don't know about is the Afghanis as well that were here in the in the 19th century as part of trekking, and hence all the camels in Australia that were brought in because of their resilience and their you know, they'd the the barren land that is the outback uh you know, there's some resemblance to Afghanistan and uh very arid landscapes, and they also were either forced to assimilate or depart again later on.
00:58:12.159 --> 00:58:16.000
Um that was the first, like because I was reading about that the other day.
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:19.679
That was one of the first terrorist attacks in Australia, wasn't it?
00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:24.719
And the Afghanis, those two Afghani camel herders or whatever they were, attacked.
00:58:24.960 --> 00:58:27.920
That's like one of the first recorded attacks from uh Afghanis.
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.679
Uh of this particular story.
00:58:29.760 --> 00:58:43.760
It's uh you know, it's the it's the gold rush and this um uh little uh little um racist incident that really set the scene for the way that Australia thinks about immigration and that um that sort of thinking stayed in place for a hundred years to come.
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:48.239
Yeah, and interesting again, uh James, your event was uh never forgotten, it's still celebrated.
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:56.159
Those two that you talked about pretty much forgotten, and it takes uh fantastic podcasts like Putschcast to bring it back to life and to discuss.
00:58:56.320 --> 00:59:05.679
I think that's that's um it's a statement on its own that we are we're very selective with our collective memory when it comes to Australian history.
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:06.000
Yeah.
00:59:06.159 --> 00:59:09.760
Um and this is again a very strong 19th century focus.
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:23.519
Uh you might be surprised, but there were events in the 20th century as well that are relevant to Putschcast, um, where some lawyers would still have a picnic today to figure out what actually happened, was it legal, was it not legal?
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:26.960
And there's one very prominent one, David, that we you are very passionate about.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:29.519
And maybe a future episode we'll deal with just that.
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:30.000
Tell us.
00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:30.800
I'd love to.
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:41.360
So the 11th of November 1975 is a date that a number of Australians um will know, and it's also probably one of the most politically charged in our nation's history as well.
00:59:41.599 --> 00:59:50.000
Um, I uh sometimes drink at a pub in Broadmeadows near my school, which um has a founding stone laid in it.
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:57.920
And funnily enough, the name of the person who opened that pub was the Honorable Goff Whitlam, and he did it on the 10th of November.
00:59:58.079 -->
01:00:04.400
So his last official act as the Prime Minister of Australia was opening the Broadmeadows Sporting Club.
01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:16.480
And so we often have a beer there and um, you know, consider how I suppose disappointing that might have been for him as like the the final the final act of his premiership.
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:25.519
But yes, there's a lot, and especially now that cabinet papers and other information and FOI requests um have been put in and things have been released.
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:34.000
There's more information that suggests there was collusion, um, not just between um Malcolm Fraser and the Governor General, other forces as well.
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:35.199
So it's a lot to look into.
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:48.400
Yeah, Defense of the Nation is again, we've learned about Governor Bly, you know, that long ago, 200 years ago, um, who was representing the monarchy here in Australia, and we still have that in place today.
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:51.039
So the political system has not changed that much.
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:56.400
We still have governors, but the power they hold is very different to the Bly days.
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:58.079
Yeah, that's right.
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:05.519
Um, I suppose the Governor General, the Governor General is it a it's a titular role, um uh ceremonial almost.
01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:16.400
But uh again, if you read the fine print, they do have we are a constitutional monarchy and they are the king's or queen's representatives, so they do wield, they can wield significant power.
01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.039
As they did in 75, which is the whole controversy, right?
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:19.519
That's it.
01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:22.079
Little teaser took Goth Whitlam 1975.
01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:23.760
Uh hopefully this year, David?
01:01:23.920 --> 01:01:24.880
You're making commitment?
01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:26.079
We're gonna talk about it?
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:27.039
Let's do it.
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:27.679
All right.
01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:31.039
So that's 2026, just for the record, not 27.
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:35.840
That's a commitment, David, this year, not for the big anniversary in 35.
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:36.960
Correct.
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:39.679
We probably should have gone last year, but oh well, that's fine.
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:42.800
And um, again, you've seen a wonderful Pudgecast shirt today.
01:01:42.880 --> 01:01:44.559
Um, David, great hat, by the way.
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:45.360
Wearing that.
01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.320
Excellent.
01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:51.039
Um, and to find out more about our podcast, uh, visit pushcast.com.
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:55.599
If you've got any feedback suggestions to putcast at gmail.com, send us an email.
01:01:55.840 --> 01:02:03.280
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01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:05.760
Um thanks and keep putting.