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This file was generated by Descript
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INTRO
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Today on the podcast, I am
talking to Jeffrey Mead.
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Jeff is the founding director of
entrepreneurship at Paul Quinn
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College, and by 2028, every single
student there would have to have
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launched a business generating
real revenue before they graduate.
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It's not optional, it's mandatory.
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An actual business with real life stakes.
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On today's podcast, we talked about
the actual shift of what it takes
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to take a first generation college
student's mindset from don't fail to
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fail fast, and why most schools get
entrepreneurship completely wrong, and why
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Jeff is open sourcing the entire model.
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All right, let's get into the podcast.
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PODCAST
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Raul: jeff, I firmly believe that
there's gonna be two types of vocations
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in the future and one is gonna be
employee, one is gonna be entrepreneur,
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and I think one might be going away.
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I'm curious to know, like, why
you're diving into, like, really
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focusing on students in college
starting a real business and having
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those entrepreneurial skillsets.
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Jeff Meade: first thanks for having me
I I would say you know since schools
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have been around they've done a really
good job at getting people employed
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Like they the whole point of going to
school for the most part is you wanna
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expand knowledge of students but you
also wanna make sure that after those
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four years that there's a job waiting
for them And so we've kinda optimized for
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that Schools know how to do that really
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Raul: mm-hmm.mm.
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Jeff Meade: But what we've seen and if
you've read any reports on what it looks
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like it's hard for age students young
people to get jobs and it's just because
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the world is changing Like we're we're
not sure what those future jobs look like
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And what we've heard from employers is
we need people who can think on their
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feet who can be creative who can adapt
to whatever it is the world is gonna look
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like by the time they graduate college
And so for us our response to that is Oh
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we know exactly how to do that It that
would be an entrepreneur Like you want
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somebody who could think entrepreneurially
right Somebody who's creative who where
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most people see a problem they're like
Oh this is a solution You know like I I
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can figure out how to how to work around
this And so that's what we're doing It's
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really helping students start businesses
in school Uh it it you know the program
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is called Every Quinite is an entrepreneur
Paul Quinn is the college And for us
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it really is we wanted to be bold and
we didn't want it to be an option And
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we wanted to change the mindset for our
students really around do you create
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something from nothing right lots of our
students are first generation students
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and I think as a result of being first
generation students they've probably
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grown up around a lot of scarcity in
their world And so just even the mindset
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shift of thinking like an entrepreneur
one where you approach things out of
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abundance Like how do we how do we look
out at the world say to ourselves Oh
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I can fix this Right And and so that's
what we're trying to do with the Every
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Quinnite is an entrepreneur program
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Raul: No, I really like that.
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I resonate a lot because, like,
everything you just said first gen
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here in the US the one program that
changed my entire trajectory was an
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entrepreneurship program back in college,
but it was only, like, 12 kids selected
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at the entire school of business.
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So I think it was not 100%
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I think it was, like, one or 3% of
the business school or, like, the
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entire ... and it was optional.
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So, like, you didn't, like, you tried and
then you did have to start a business in,
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in some cases, but, like talk me through
because you have a, a no optional 100%
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by, what is it, 2028, where every single
student has to have a, yeah, real venture
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that actually generates real revenue.
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What are the requirements?
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Is it a dollar?
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Is it 100 bucks?
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Is it a thousand bucks?
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Like, what, how do you quantify
what a real business is?
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Jeff Meade: so the real business is
it's it's so funny because when students
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first
Load full transcript
get here And you know we just
launched I've been at Paul Quinn for
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going on a year and a half now And so
I've just started this program with
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our entering freshmen so the juniors
and the seniors and those folks they're
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like Oh that looks cool it looks like
a lot of work Uh but but it is actually
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modeled after my alma mater So I went to
Babson College which is known for their
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entrepreneurship program that's if you Oh
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Raul: professor of Absence.
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Jeff Meade: world so
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: Babson does really cool is
they have what they call FME and so it's
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like foundations of management experience
when we were there we called it freshman
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management experience it's essentially
every freshman has to start a business but
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you don't start it by yourself you start
it in a group And I always thought that
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was really cool and and thought Man why
doesn't why don't more schools do this And
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so having the opportunity I brought that
thinking over here and it really is every
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student who comes in now has to start
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generates revenue some of our students I
I've seen in this first couple months they
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are starting businesses and it has been
hard to actually revenue and there are a
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lot of pivots And so for me I'm like that
qualifies Th this is they have identified
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customers right It's what I like to call
it is what we're doing is experiential
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learning but there's stakes involved right
Um and so it makes it a it makes it real
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So no we don't have a bar like $1,000
It is really you're going through the
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Raul: Don't do it.
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Jeff Meade: of what it takes to start a
business and so it's it has been really
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fascinating to see the types of businesses
the business ideas that folks are creating
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I like that the visions are getting really
big And so what we do is within the first
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semester is we push people to think in
terms of an MVP right Like what's your
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minimum viable product And so with that
we're like What is that that will actually
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entice someone to buy your product in the
marketplace And so we want them to have
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that big vision but it's also gotta get
a customer and you gotta convince them to
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buy And so we've had people some of our
students are selling things for $10 right
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$15 so it's just to get them And once
once you get that going then they're like
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I get it And then we can start turning
the switch to how do we scale this thing
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Raul: yeah.
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No, that's key.
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And even in the beginning I remember
in, again, my, in my journey and also
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seeing others around me, it would
start just like that, how to reselling
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items, and then from there, build,
build, they built, like, a figure
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e-commerce businesses out of college.
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So it's a real thing where you just
gotta keep trying and iterating.
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I'm curious, and I, and I was serious
on the point that I think that
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entrepreneurship is is a good answer for
the new economy that we're heading into,
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as well as the technological evolution.
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What are you guys doing to, like, empower
students with tokens, and how many tokens
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do you allocate per student, or are you
paying for any of the subscriptions for AI
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so that they can actually leverage that?
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I honestly, this is, again, I'm an
optimist, I'm an entrepreneur but
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also been in, in a program not the
same, but because I like the, the
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rigor, 100% of our students have
to go through building a business.
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That's, that's, you gotta,
you gotta anchor that.
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But right now with the technology, I
think this is one of the best times
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to be an entrepreneur because now
you can work on the speed of solving
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problems and actually having the
technical know- how or execution and
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power to actually deliver value faster.
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Jeff Meade: a good good question And so I
think what's fascinating is when I first
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got here my gut said you know we gotta be
all about AI Like every business should
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have an AI component And then the more I
talk to students I realize maybe not every
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business And and and what I mean is that
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: what I have been really
pushing them to do is is looking at truly
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solving a problem right And I think that
the nature of being 18 19 20 and being
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told you have to start a business is
you just come up with these really cool
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ideas I'm gonna one kid said I'm a I'm
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: for small business I'm gonna
use AI and I'm like Great what type of
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small business What problem do they have
Right So really pushing it to the core of
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what problem you're trying to solve And so
as a result when we get down to the core
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of it making sure you're solving a problem
people are willing to pay for the ideas
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Raul: First for, foremost.
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Jeff Meade: aren't fully focused on
AI Some of them are but we haven't had
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a challenge with like tokens and all
that I mean the students have access
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to all of that but no one's burning
through anything and they're not burning
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it through anything because we're
so focused on the top of the funnel
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stuff in many ways in terms of making
sure that you're solving a problem
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and and then really making sure yeah
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Raul: That's the key.
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Jeff Meade: there that values that problem
being solved and then how are you gonna
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deliver that to them And I think for us
as we talk through it what's happening
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is once they can solve that problem
and and they can deliver their solution
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to the marketplace then we wanna start
layering AI and other tools to optimize
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But but you know they're just they're
they're not AI first let's say that
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Raul: That's a good,
that's a good perspective.
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And, yeah, and for, just to give
you my perspective, working in with
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professional services, working with
other consultants, agencies, it's
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less of transforming how you deliver
with AI, but more about integrating
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the tech into your business model.
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So it's ... The number one
thing will never change.
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You gotta deliver value, which
is what you're focusing on.
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What is the actual pain point that is
significant enough that they want it
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get, to get rid of and buy a product or
service that doesn't exist, or that's
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different to get rid of that problem?
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That's never gonna change, and
I think that's, like, the basic
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fundamental principle like Gravity.
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But then, as, as you mentioned,
it's the same parallel.
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How do we either deliver that value with
more value, go deeper, help them do things
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we couldn't do before, or optimize on
the backend where how we run the business
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is more efficient versus, versus not.
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So it's good to see the young gen
still leveraging that, but then
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also thinking first of problem
first, because that's gonna
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Solving problems is, like, the, the
key thing for any, any work, really.
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What are the mindsets that
have changed for your students?
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Like, you mentioned first gen,
scarcity to abundance what are, like,
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the real changes that you're seeing?
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'Cause there's growth in,
like, the tangible growth.
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You start a business or you don't.
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You get revenue or you don't.
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You get a customer, you don't.
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Okay, that's binary, black, and white.
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Growth also happens, like, oh, they
come in and they have a new idea based
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on their pivot, or they see themselves
and their situations differently.
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How are you seeing that shake out
in their own personal development?
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Jeff Meade: say the biggest thing I see
is around confidence right And and so
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Raul: Hmm.
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Jeff Meade: I think that really comes from
like I already said that they're first gen
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and in to on top of being first gen a lot
of our students are Pell Grant recipients
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and I know this very well because I was
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Raul: Hmm..
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Jeff Meade: Pell Grant recipient And so
putting myself in their shoes and and
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interacting with them what I realized
is that when you're first gen usually
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not always but usually your family puts
so much stock into you all the right
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things and not messing up right Like
just make sure you check the boxes and
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find a really good job Like we put all
we can to get you to that place so don't
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mess up And so imagine the family that
has armed a student their child with all
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that information and then they show up
to me and I'm like we're gonna fail fast
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I've violated everything that they've
just heard They're like No no no no I'm
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not supposed to fail I'm I'm supposed
to minimize failure at all costs And so
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they see failure as like a ding to their
identity right And so what I have to do
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build that confidence up and transform
their way of thinking like no failure
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is actually learning and it is a safe
place to fail here that they've never
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experienced that because they have been
the chosen ones You are the chosen one
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in your family when you are the first to
go off to college so I think the biggest
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thing I've I've been facing is is just the
confidence like don't know if I can fail
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or I don't wanna dream that big because
I don't wanna disappoint myself or have
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to tell somebody that I failed So that
that is that is the challenge that we are
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seeing now And and it's work It's it's
definitely work but but I recognize what
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it is we just have to try to overcome that
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Raul: So, like s- failure
is a learning l- feedback.
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It's safe to fail and what, what
else is, like, another key thing
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that, or cornerstone that you focus
on for them to change their mindset?
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'Cause what you're saying, literally,
is, is affected there because
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I live that, but even for the
professional or, like, the executive
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right now who is high performance,
it's the same mentality, "I can't
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Jeff Meade: Yeah No I liked how
you sum summarized that really
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quick I'd say the other one is
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Raul: fail.".
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Jeff Meade: probably I'd say this it's
the there's definitely something about
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it being a safe space Like I I feel
like we've all worked in environments
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where you wanna take a chance but you
get penalized for taking that chance and
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and for for many students that penalty
has been in their grades right And so
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actually just creating an environment
where they do see failure as part of the
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learning process but they also see it
as step on the journey Like you have to
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go through this This is like an emotion
this is part of the experience because I
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can't teach you the other things unless
you actually feel this pain what this is
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like right Probably similar to sports like
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: gonna lose a game right But
how do we get back up and play again
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: Um and and but in
academics we never teach students
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that We never teach that you're gonna
lose right
Losing has always been
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Cs Ds and Fs but so changing that
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Raul: Yeah.
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Jeff Meade: has been So I would I would
say for the professionals really like
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how do you create this space where people
are comfortable with failure and not not
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failure over and over again but you want
people to make new mistakes Uh uh you
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wanna create an environment where Yeah
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Raul: take risk.
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Jeff Meade: you definitely wanna create
a safe environment you don't want people
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making the same mistake over and over
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Raul: Yeah.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:08.540
Jeff Meade: Right
00:15:08.604 --> 00:15:10.794
Raul: not reckless, but no, you're
s- you're essentially helping the
00:15:10.794 --> 00:15:13.824
students mature, because I think those
are the, the two big, the two big
00:15:13.824 --> 00:15:15.684
R's, like, risk and responsibility.
00:15:15.684 --> 00:15:19.284
Responsibility, you gotta business,
you gotta uphold, you know, what
00:15:19.284 --> 00:15:23.334
your family's expecting, balance that
with risk taking, and I think that's
00:15:23.334 --> 00:15:24.504
getting people out of the shell.
00:15:24.724 --> 00:15:27.064
You're doing the podcast, I saw
your website, you're all, you're
00:15:27.064 --> 00:15:28.414
doing, like, writing and speaking.
00:15:28.594 --> 00:15:31.594
How are you open sourcing this, and
to use, to use that language, but
00:15:31.594 --> 00:15:35.404
how are you helping either share this
framework so that either ... 'Cause
00:15:35.434 --> 00:15:36.694
universities have to pivot.
00:15:37.174 --> 00:15:39.154
I don't care which university
you went to when you're
00:15:39.154 --> 00:15:40.684
listening to this, to, to this.
00:15:41.014 --> 00:15:43.534
Again, different stories,
different iterations, but,
00:15:43.534 --> 00:15:44.374
like, they're gonna change.
00:15:44.374 --> 00:15:47.494
Like, it's overexpensive and the
value prop is no longer there.
00:15:47.764 --> 00:15:50.314
So they're gonna have to change
regardless of what happens.
00:15:50.524 --> 00:15:53.884
How are you, Jeff, like, open sourcing
this or the framework or sharing
00:15:53.884 --> 00:15:55.264
the teachings or the insights?
00:15:55.264 --> 00:15:56.854
Like, are you writing a newsletter?
00:15:56.854 --> 00:15:57.924
Like, what, what are you doing for this?
00:15:58.170 --> 00:16:00.750
Jeff Meade: It it's something that that
I was talking about with some other
00:16:00.750 --> 00:16:06.920
professors so so one thing we do have is
we are trying We we do do case studies
00:16:07.020 --> 00:16:12.360
so we've started case studies and it's
so funny with with case studies is
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.710
that they take forever to get out into
the world right And and it's because
00:16:17.604 --> 00:16:17.644
Raul: Yeah.
00:16:17.670 --> 00:16:21.340
Jeff Meade: you know they're peer reviewed
they have to go through all these steps
00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:24.970
and and like I said I've been here a
year and a half and we've been moving
00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:31.090
on case studies but we've only had two
right Like one of them got published by
00:16:31.090 --> 00:16:36.770
Sage the other one is being reviewed by
HBS a Harvard Business Review Publishing
00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:42.080
but I was like This has just taken too
long and so what I wanted to do was
00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:46.610
create and what we're trying to do is
create a podcast that that can really
00:16:46.610 --> 00:16:51.500
just help people think through we're
doing here so that other folks can do
00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:56.110
it as well but our model is is very
much open source We think this model can
00:16:56.110 --> 00:17:01.690
be applied to a lot of dif to a lot of
small schools across the country and so
00:17:01.690 --> 00:17:04.270
I definitely want people to take up Yeah
00:17:04.664 --> 00:17:05.264
Raul: too, like,
00:17:05.290 --> 00:17:06.070
Jeff Meade: I want people to take
00:17:06.134 --> 00:17:06.374
Raul: you know,
00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:06.700
Jeff Meade: doing
00:17:06.884 --> 00:17:07.904
Raul: like a, a department.
00:17:09.914 --> 00:17:10.574
No, I like that.
00:17:10.784 --> 00:17:13.664
Yeah, I think that's the fastest
path to, to sharing that frameworks.
00:17:13.664 --> 00:17:17.964
Even the most powerful tool that I used
back then, and I still even reference it
00:17:17.964 --> 00:17:20.154
to this day, is the business model canvas.
00:17:20.154 --> 00:17:21.084
It's just a piece of paper.
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.100
Forgot, it was Eric Reese or whoever,
what whoever it was, but that little
00:17:25.100 --> 00:17:29.060
tool, I mean, I think if you, if you
develop that too for, for what you're
00:17:29.060 --> 00:17:34.270
running, make it simple, open books
podcasts, whatever it is to get the ideas
00:17:34.270 --> 00:17:35.930
out there, but that's pretty exciting.
00:17:35.930 --> 00:17:39.110
Jeff, for the audience, where
can people go to learn more about
00:17:39.110 --> 00:17:41.329
you and your work at Paul Quinn?
00:17:41.675 --> 00:17:44.476
Jeff Meade: The the easiest way
is if you go to Paul Quinn's
00:17:44.476 --> 00:17:47.306
website if you go to paulquin.edu
00:17:47.356 --> 00:17:52.216
then back/entrepreneurship you will
see that we're working on right
00:17:52.216 --> 00:17:56.896
now and to see all the stuff that
I'm involved in in terms of how I'm
00:17:56.896 --> 00:18:01.936
sharing out the information you can
go to my site and that's jeff-mead.com
00:18:01.936 --> 00:18:05.956
and mead is spelled M-E-A-D-E.com
00:18:06.236 --> 00:18:09.716
you can see all that we're doing here
at Paul Quinn and and all that I'm
00:18:09.716 --> 00:18:13.796
doing around venture-based learning
and that is my way to answer the
00:18:13.796 --> 00:18:16.586
previous question how we're trying
to get the material out to everybody
00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:22.770
Raul: Well, I'll put those
links in the show notes.
00:18:22.830 --> 00:18:24.480
Jeff, thanks again for being on.
00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:30.290
Thank you for listening to the podcast.
00:18:30.310 --> 00:18:32.520
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Again, that's DoGoodWork.
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00:20:00.310 --> 00:20:03.810
As always, it's an honor to be
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00:20:04.110 --> 00:20:05.260
This is Raul Hernandez.
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Do good work.