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Welcome in, Clear Path Nation.
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This is Stuart Smith here for another edition of Clearpath Radio Podcast.
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And I am here with Mitch Davies as well.
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Welcome in, everybody.
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How are we doing?
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This week we're going to talk about a kind of a different subject for us, something that um, you know, I don't usually kind of talk about my faith.
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And so um I did have so I was out in a conference in Houston um last week.
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And that was a fun one.
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Really good.
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And um visiting with fellow advisors from all over the country who were sharing ideas and just fellowship and just having a good time together and really talking about the business and and a lot of other things.
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And I went to a faith-driven breakfast meeting, which I was invited to and really um didn't didn't kind of know what it was all about, but uh, you know, faith-driven.
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I said, well, it's you know, let's check it out.
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Let's go see um what's going on with this.
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And so, man, I'm glad I went because um I got the opportunity and the distinct pleasure to hear from a gentleman named Walter Nossbaum, who um is a theologian um and also a very successful business person, but um really just you know uh unbelievable guy, just a super guy and great speaker.
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And he gave a lecture at that breakfast on the parable of the rich fool, which apparently is in Luke 12, for those of you who um are familiar with this.
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And you know, it was such an interesting talk where he talked about um the fact that this you know farmer that you know had an overabundance of crops and just you know, overflowing riches, so to speak, was, you know, in this kind of place where he was, you know, I need to build more um, you know, more barns to house the overflow of goods and and and crops that I've been blessed with and my land's been so productive, and how he had kind of was saying that he had reached this place where he had more than he could ever consume, and how he was looking forward to basically um uh having a life where he could just eat, drink, and be merry.
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And um the um the Lord called him a fool.
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And you know, I think if I'm correct, that you know, he he made some comment to the effect of you won't be around to enjoy the the the riches that you've you know you've accumulated here.
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Um and you know, it was just a really fascinating talk and it um it got me thinking and just like any uh really good um speaker should, um, and any really good sermon or or anything that you
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hear should really get your get your mind ticking and get you thinking and and open up your your thoughts and and you know I was laying in bed that night and I just couldn't sleep because I was thinking about you know this concept of you know what what would the biblical view of the concept of what we think of as retirement, like what would that be?
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And and and is there even any references?
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Is there anything, any scripture, anything that talks directly to what the biblical view would be of our concept of of retirement?
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And and so that was that that fascinated me.
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It's so interesting, man.
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You know, it's so as a as a Christian myself, you know, we talked after the seminar, and uh, you know, you were like, does it reference retirement explicitly?
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And we were kind of like, we sat there for a minute, like I don't I don't know.
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I don't I don't think so.
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So as we've been doing this research, we found that it's you know, it's we'll talk about it in a bit, but retirement's more of a modern kind of thing, right?
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I mean, it's you know, in that time things were very different, and it's just it's more of a modern thing.
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So it it had one explicit mention of it, and I'll let you kind of touch on it.
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But it was very interesting to kind of do this research, and you know, it ties really well with a lot of the concepts we talk about anyway, right?
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And uh it's very interesting.
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It's been cool to do this research, and um, I'm excited for this one.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, I mean, you know, it interests me really because this is the profession I've dedicated my life to.
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This is this is what I live, eat, breathe, and sleep every day.
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And I was just kind of curious.
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I've always felt like this profession is extremely admirable, what we do.
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And I've always felt like that done correctly, it's just one of the you know, most admirable and and really a place and a position where you can help a lot of people along the way and and improve their lives and put them in a better place um financially and you know, which obviously leads to being in a better place spiritually and emotionally and all of those other things, because you know, without financial stability, it's hard to really get a grip on the other pieces that you're that you're working through.
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But um I felt like we do really good work and that we really help people and make a difference.
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And that's really what I've based my entire career on is helping people and making a difference.
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And so the biblical view of what you know, what how would you know God feel about that profession and and the concept of retirement and and what kind of inferences from scripture in the Bible could I take and and really try and understand that.
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So we're gonna go down that that road today and just kind of talk through it.
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Um the only direct reference in the entire Bible to the concept of retirement, and we'll just start by saying retirement is a very modern concept.
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Um, the the concept of working to a certain age and you know, accumulating enough to be able to not continue the type of work you do and maybe um switching gears to a different phase of life is a is a modern concept.
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In in ancient times, people pretty much worked until they were until they passed away.
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Um and you know, so you know that's it's it's it's interesting to think about, but there is a reference, and it is in numbers eight, and it simply states at the age of 50, they must retire from their regular service and work no longer.
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They may assist their brothers in performing their duties at the tent of meeting, but they themselves must not do the work.
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And I was really that really kind of wow, like that's that's interesting because um, you know, you think about back in those times how difficult the work was.
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And you know, you're talking about back breaking really kind of all the work was that right there, and so um the Levites Um that this passage refers to served from 25 to 50 and then formally stepped back um from primary tabernacle service, um, but they did not stop showing up.
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They continued to assist and support their younger generation.
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And, you know, this is interesting because I think what we've always talked about with our clients without even understanding this was the I think, you know, when it comes to our view of retirement, it's not maybe the traditional view of, you know, retiring from work and living a life of just, you know, complete leisure and and having no responsibilities whatsoever, and really only being focused inward on yourself at that point and your own needs, and that's something we've never ever kind of talked about that as the way retirement should be for folks.
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And what we've often shared with our clients was the happiest people that we know in retirement are people that do not necessarily retire, you know, away from work or retire away from their career, but people that retire to a new life and you know, still a life of purpose and still find purpose in what they're doing, but you know, it's not as strenuous and and as
exhausting and as grinding as maybe what they did throughout most of their working life.
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Right.
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But maybe that they kind of take on at some point more of a mentoring, teaching, you know, but still again, give having purpose and feeling like they're, you know, they're still accomplishing things and still feeling good about, you know, what they do day to day.
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And I think that when we, you know, when I look back at at you know, the 25 years of of clients that I've worked with and helped, the ones that were the most happy were definitely the ones that were doing that.
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Yeah.
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No doubt.
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And you know, when we hear the people, I mean, when we hear the people who come in and they're scared of retirement, it's a scary thing.
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You know, it's it's very scary.
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There's a lot of factors going on.
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But when it comes to just the time spending element of it, the people that are scared, you know, they'll say something to me like, I mean, what am I gonna do?
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Just sleep and watch TV all day?
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You know, and it's like those are the people that are scared because they're you don't have that purpose.
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And that's what we preach and hear so often is exactly to your point, you have to, you know, we'll spend a few years working with clients who are getting ready to retire, helping them build that life that they're gonna go to.
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So when we finally retire a client, they're more excited to do that than they were way more than work, you know.
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The ones who have a hard time with that are the ones who kind of get to that point and they're like, uh, I'll just keep working, I guess.
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I don't know what else I'd do, you know?
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Yeah.
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So that's and it was really cool to see a biblical connection to that idea.
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And in that, you know, you continue to lead, continue to teach, continue to help, but it's not required.
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You don't need to do it to feed feed your family, right?
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You've built up the assets to do it and you can do it out of your heart and out of purpose.
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And that's what it really preaches.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, how cool is that?
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So cool, man.
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You know, think about retirement as you know, when you get to a place in life where you finally have a choice, where you finally have the freedom to make a choice to say, I'm not doing
this again, like Mitch said, to support my family or to make ends meet.
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I that is already taken care of.
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I'm now switching to a place where I'm doing things out of a out of you know the kindness of my heart and because I want to share the wisdom that I've been so blessed with in all the years that I've, you know, that I've been working, and I want to pass that on and still feel purpose and and still feel um you know, the drive to get up and do that every day.
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And I just I think you know, if you want true happiness and true freedom in your retirement, that that's that's how you find it.
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And and you find it in in you know, that type of of attitude and and pressing forward.
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So, you know, um Genesis 2.15 before the fall, the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
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You know, a common misconception is work is a result of the fall.
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And it is not, it is not.
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Work existed before sin.
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So what the fall introduced was toil, frustration, and futility.
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It touched the conditions, not the calling.
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So, you know, that's really interesting to think about in that there was purpose and work before the fall, and it's not a result of the fall.
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I do see that common misconception and that people would think that way.
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And I find that fascinating to really understand that no, um, it is not a result of the fall.
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Work was there before sin.
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Yeah.
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And so that tells you that work is good.
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Right.
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And, you know, I I love that because um, you know, a lot of people would disagree.
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Yeah, certainly.
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And I think that, you know, it is um it is important to understand that concept that that work is good and purpose is even better.
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And you know, work with purpose, work with purpose for the Lord, you know, and and give everything you have every day.
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And it's, you know, retirement is not, you know, it's not rest, it's it's reorientation.
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And it's just, yeah, absolutely.
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And um, I think that that's kind of the point of Matthew 11, 28 through 30, is that you know, retirement is not rest, it's reorientation.
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And I love that concept.
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You know, again, it's just it's just more of what we're saying here is that if you want to just retire to a life of complete gluttonous leisure and just be only concerned with your needs and and that sort of thing, I I feel like you're you will be miserable.
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Yeah, of course you're gonna be scared of that.
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Of course you're not gonna look forward to that.
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You think that that is going to be the life where you just you just put everything on cruise control and you have no worries, no cares, and everything just takes care of itself.
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And that is really not the truth.
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The truth is you have to continue to to produce fruit and to continue to you know be like purpose-driven, and still that's where you're gonna find your happiness.
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Um you know, uh my my mentor when I came into this business 25 years ago was a gentleman named Dan Rivers.
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Um, shout out to Dan out there, um, wonderful man who said to me one time very early in my career, he quoted, you know, you're either green and growing or ripe and rotten.
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And that really stuck with me because I think that that is a perfect analogy for what we're talking about here today, is you can't just retire and be ripe and rotten, right?
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You have to continue to be green and growing, you have to continue to be, you know, we all know those people, right?
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Like we all know the guy or the or the the gal who is you know knows it all.
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Yep, you you can't tell them anything.
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They they they're just they you can't teach them anything, they're not, you know, they're not open, they're just and they've you know, they've shut it down because they know it all.
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And you know, nobody wants to be around those people.
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No.
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And you know, um, we've known quite a few over the years.
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Um, I want to surround myself with people who are constantly open-minded, constantly willing to learn new things.
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I mean, no matter if you are brilliant and you know, you've you you are, you know, one of the brightest people ever, you know, some of the brightest people I've ever known were people who were constantly willing to learn new things and keep their minds open.
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And um, I think that's what you really have to focus on as you go through into retirement because it's easy just to kind of give up.
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It is.
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It is.
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And you know, that's what biblically and physically, I mean, that's what people are when people are scared of retirement, it's because they're scared that people say, well, if I don't we hear this all the time, sir.
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If I stop working, then my I'm just
gonna my brain's gonna slow down, right?
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And it's like what we preach so often, and so does the Bible, is there's so many other ways to stay green and growing than just the same job you've been working in the last 35 years.
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I would argue that it actually better than the same job you've worked in the last 35 years, right?
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You've been doing the same thing every day.
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It's like, what are the odds you're learning new things?
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Maybe, maybe not.
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But if you can step into other avenues, whether it's faith, whether it's community, whether it's volunteering, whether it's teaching and leading, there's so many other things that will continue to evolve and grow your brain and keep you because everyone wants to stay sharp and wants to stay involved, right?
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And that's how you live a long, happy retirement is by doing that.
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So having that mindset of, oh, if I stop working, I'm just gonna just you're gonna lose my brain, I'm gonna lose everything.
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It's no, it's like there's so many ways to do that, and that's what we try to preach so hard.
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It's again, that's why it's this matters so much to us is to see that biblical connection.
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Yeah.
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Some other biblical references that I found fascinating were, you know, in Proverbs 20, 21, 20, um, the point in there is kind of the why store up, fools consume everything now.
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Yeah.
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And I mean, boy, is that profound.
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I mean, it we see it all the time where people, you know, they they work so hard, they make, you know, good money, they um and they feel this need to live to a certain you know stature or to to keep up with, you know, other people, and you know, that, you know, we've gotta we've gotta have that new car every two years, or we've gotta live in this certain type of house, and we've gotta, you know, our kids have to attend certain types of schools and and they have to, you know, put on this face of that that they're just incredibly successful.
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And what's really going on behind the scenes is that they're they're not saving anything, they're spending everything they make to keep up this facade.
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And they what that ends up happening is sooner or later, you know, that catches up with you, and then you you start getting to towards retirement, and you're like, oh man, what am I gonna do now?
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We've lived this great life and and we've we've been able to keep this facade up for all these years, but we don't have any money for retirement.
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And I've seen it many times in my career where I've met with folks that, you know, pull up in the BMW and the the the wife is, you know, made up and wearing designer clothes and dripping in jewelry and and the you know, the the man has on the watch and the the suit and the you know, and then we get into really talking about, you know, well, what are you, you know, what what's behind that facade?
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What what do you have you saved money?
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Do you well, you know, and you come to find out that really they've leveraged everything to to just put up that facade.
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And I find that to be so disappointing when I see that because again, the the wives store up and fools consume everything now, and that's that's exactly what's going on there.
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It is, and that levies perfect into you know Proverbs 13 to 22.
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It says a good person leaves an inheritance for their children's, uh for their children's children, rather.
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And you know, that's that's so true.
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It's like it's another it's another way to think of, you know, it's it's not just how do you have enough money to leave and run out at the end.
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It's like if it's important to you to leave money to your children's children and to continue that generation.
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I mean, there's not I don't know what the stat is, but the amount of families that are able to continue generational wealth is very small, right?
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And if you can be in that position, that's amazing.
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And that's amazing biblically as well.
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Yeah, and I think it speaks to the fact that you know a lot of people feel some sort of guilt over having an abundance.
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And, you know, I think that what that, you know, what that tells us in that scripture right there is that that you shouldn't feel guilty.
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It's it's not being rich is not a sin.
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No, right.
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It's what do you you know what do you do with that money you know do how do you go about living your life is it all in just the um you know trying to please yourself or please you know um you and your spouse or is it in you know do you share that wealth to help to take care of others to pass on to your grandchildren you know to really you know do good things and and I think it's it's all intentional it's all weird do you have good intentions are you are you self-consumed or are you looking outward to help others and to be a blessing to others as well um with everything that you've been blessed with I don't think there's needs to be guilt there as long as your intentions are good.
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Right because I mean gluttony is a sin but you know we go back to the the very beginning of
this and the passage in Luke where you said you know God told him that you know you can't live that life and that's why you're gonna not make it through the night he didn't say you grew too much crop he said wanting to go live that life is the problem.
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And that's people have a hard time deciphering the gluttony between growing the growing the pot right there's nothing inherently wrong with growing that there's nothing biblically wrong with growing assets.
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It's are you going to live a life of gluttony and greed?
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That's the problem.
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Right.
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Because Timothy you know in Timothy it says you know wealth isn't condemned but the love of it is and you know that's that's really the whole thing in a nutshell that is is you know don't feel bad about your wealth right but don't fall in love with your wealth.
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Yeah I mean you know don't don't make it the basis of who you are and you know wealth is great and wealth does solve a lot of problems for folks but it is not you know it is not godliness and it is not you know the the key to happiness I mean there's a lot of very miserable wealthy people out there and there's no doubt about that.
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No doubt.
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And every time I come across those folks I'm a little bewildered at, you know, what are you so unhappy about?
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But it's because I truly believe it's because they've fallen in love with that wealth and and they're so all consumed with making sure they don't lose it and and stressing and all the anxiety about it.
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And and I just feel like that is such a waste of you know good energy and and very very valuable time because the real true currency in life is time not money.
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And you know there's a lot of wealthy older people that would give every bit of their wealth tomorrow to have just more time.
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No doubt.
00:25:43.379 --> 00:25:54.899
No doubt and what's I mean one of the most common things we've all heard preached is you know money isn't the root of all evil love of money is everyone in the world's heard that before preached in some way and it's the absolute truth it's it's not the problem.
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It's the love and the the things that come with money.
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But if money itself isn't inherently wrong.
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Yeah right well you know I I I've again I think just to kind of start wrapping this up you know I I was fascinated with what what the biblical view of what we kind of think of as retirement today would be.
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I think a lot of this scripture helped me to get real clear on what that is and what that could possibly be.
00:26:24.579 --> 00:27:32.019
I think again just to kind of recap that you know retirement shouldn't be um this idea of you know just pure leisure and you know just just gluttonous um you know self-indulgence it should be okay now I've earned the right to you know get kind of really give on my terms and and to be able to still be you know have meaning have purpose but to have it you know to be able to pick and choose how you're gonna do that but to maybe switch roles from being the you know being that that main worker the person that's carrying the load to being more of a mentor more of a teacher more of someone who is just sharing wisdom that you've been blessed with and you know like we've said before there's nobody out there that's worked a 30 or 40 year career and doesn't have something to give.
00:27:32.339 --> 00:28:38.419
Yeah absolutely they just absolutely do if you've if you've put in that kind of work and and it doesn't matter what profession we talk about you have knowledge to share you have wisdom and you should really start to look and think about ways that you can share that with others in a meaningful way that's going to give you purpose and just make you feel great about you know your your your last phase of of life on earth and um and just you you've been blessed so so give some of that back and I think it will serve you very very well yeah can agree more man that's that's that that's it well um that's been great discussion today Mitch thanks for joining me again it's been a wonderful topic to discuss and until next time guys plan wisely live purposefully and build a legacy that outlasts you all right and happy retirement