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Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams. Welcome to my podcast Checking In with Michelle Williams, a part of iHeartMedia and The Black Effect. My next guest is such a boss. Okay, not just a boss for the Graham. She's a real boss. But the most important part of her that's boss to me is that she's a boss in prayer. She's a boss as an entrepreneur, She's a boss as a pastor. She is a absolute boss. And guess what, she just may inspire you to take the next step in your life right now on Checking In with Michelle Williams. Listen, everybody, I am just really, really, really happy to have this awesome guest. I'm trying not to say all the churchie words on this auspicious occasion, but listen, I'm happy to know this woman. I'm happy to know this amazing wife, media mogul mother. I probably didn't say it in the correct order because I'm not looking at a piece of paper. Not only wife mother, media mogul, but founder of Woman Evolved. Did I say author of amazing books? You guys, I want y'all to welcome my friend, my girl, Miss Sarah Jakes Robert.
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Speaker 2: Come on podcast. I am really digging podcast Michelle. I like all of them Michelles, but podcast Michelle is doing a thing for me.
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Speaker 1: I like her word. Come on in affirm, come on, give it all, give it all. Last time I think I was on your podcast or I'm sitting down with you for your digital series, we talked about affirming one another and you did not know how to take it. I was like, Sarah, you are a bomb.
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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know. Here we go see and I'm yeah, that happened.
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Speaker 2: You know.
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Speaker 3: I'm receiving it. I am receiving it.
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Speaker 2: I think that I have to allow myself to receive those truths about me, because you know, when you've had self doubt or insecurities, like those are the thoughts that are at the forefront of your mind. And when someone speaks something that like wages war with that thought, you have to like wrestle it down to receive it as truth. And so what you caught me in was the middle of my wrestling process. But I'm receiving it.
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Speaker 3: I love it.
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Speaker 1: Okay, y'all, we are two minutes and twenty five seconds into this podcast, and she already dropped about three tweetable nuggets instagram worthy caption I'm a love on her for a second. She's a boss, okay, b a wse just doing so many things? How are you balancing it all?
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Speaker 2: I don't think that I am, you know, I feel like I have relieved myself from the pressure of feeling like balance means that everything is running at the same case and same speed and same efficiency all at the same time. I think that my new goal is to really make sure that I am being attentive to what needs my attention the most and delegating in the areas where it allows me to perhaps grow someone else or handover the ranks to different part of it. But I just feel like balance can be a little bit of an illusion, and sometimes balance makes me feel pressure like I like the idea I'm doing the best that I can more than this pressure of I need to make sure everything is moving at the same case. For me, that creates a little bit of a sense of anxiety. It's from the place of center, with me being balanced and angered within myself, that I can then execute what needs to be done outside of me, and that is what brings me the most peace. So I don't think I'm balancing everything at the same time. I think I'm finding in their balance and then executing based off of what comes to mind from that place of peace.
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Speaker 1: Wow. So do you feel like that eliminates the difficulties of you building you?
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Speaker 2: Well, it does in a way, because I feel like everything that I build is organic.
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Speaker 3: To who I am.
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Speaker 2: I think that when I am trying to balance everything at the same time that I find myself building for other people or building at the case of what other people need.
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Speaker 3: But I feel like when I am.
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Speaker 2: Balanced on the inside of myself that I'm able to produce what is organic to who I am, So there's not pressure to perform.
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Speaker 3: If that makes.
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Speaker 1: Sense, Come on somebody, So it sounds like to me then too, Then you are able to even build the atmosphere around you and train the people around you to like uh uh, and you're building your atmosphere of how you want to thrive.
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Speaker 2: Some days I can cook and work out at six thirty and go and film and record and preach. Some days I can do that. Some days all I can do is taking that, you know what I mean?
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Speaker 1: Some days.
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Speaker 2: This is all I have for you today is rest and learning to be okay with that. For me is balanced because I have to. I think it's all about knowing your triggers. It's easy for me to fall into this idea of performing for other people and not knowing who.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: I want listen. I think you've brought up that word performance about three times, and there is a such thing as a person being a performance oriented person where I will do this for this type of response, even it's for a response that you think you owe yourself instead of saying no, baby, sit down. You don't have to perform for anybody else's type of response. Just make sure that you're doing everything from an organic and authentic place and just from a place where you feel like, no, this is necessary for me to do. You also talked about balance. You are showing that you can be all of those things that you are and still have a career. I guess, as they're saying redefining what a woman's role has to be in this world, you know you just don't have to well, I hope I don't get in trouble, but you just don't have to stay home. You just don't have to be putting the turkey in the oven. You just don't
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have to be making sure that when he comes home you're readily accessible for whatever he needs. You're showing no, no, no, I can work. I can have the career you say you're you said working preaching the podcast. You have a clothing boutique, you are a mother, you are a wife. And I just remember some years ago I was telling someone that was working with me at the time about all these things that I wanted to do, and they were like, no, that's too much. I think you should just focus on one thing. While I do agree, we have to focus on one thing and every now and then and master that area. As they say, you don't want to be jack of all trades and master of none of them. I totally get that, but just to know that you are encouraging people. Of course, we got to have structure that you can do it all. What advice can you give to women today who want to take it to the next level with their career or aspirations.
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Speaker 2: I think that next level is always an inside job, like to really come to a place where you understand, like why do I want to take it to the next level? Because you can say I want to build the vehicle. I know where the destination is, but like, what is going to be your fuel to the next level? And armed with that to really create space in your world for you to get there? Right, So if we use this car analogy, like there are certain times when you don't drive in la there are some places you go to the other side of the city at a certain time because you just know traffic. So you have to really assess, Okay, this is where I want to go. What is going to motivate me to withstand whatever resistance is going to be a part of that path? And then how am I going to execute this practically? What does that mean about my job? What does that mean about what time I wake up in the morning. I think it starts from the inside with external ponents that we begin to incorporate to make sure that we're able to move to that.
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Speaker 3: To that next level. But it's not enough to just want to go to the next.
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Speaker 2: Level if you don't know why, because when you do meet resistance, and you will meet resistance, you have to be able to popify whether or not you have what it takes to overcome it. And so why am I doing this? Why is this important to me? And understanding that, I believe is really I'm going to say three quarters of the battle from there. Execution is a Google you know, search away, but that why you can't find on Google?
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Speaker 1: That why is.
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Speaker 3: Down on the insight?
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Speaker 1: Come on, come on, and I think you're already helping me transition over into while doing all of that. How you're managing the stress of it all? Even during this time during the pandemic, we see how the state of the country is, and we see anxiety and depression rates are on the rise. If you don't mind sharing, just personally, what are you doing to manage your stress during this time?
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Speaker 2: I am kind of known around my house for suppressing my functions.
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Speaker 3: Because sometimes they nobody got time.
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Speaker 2: To feel things, all right, I have to get things done right, That's that performance thing, right. So what I am learning to do is to create space for me to feel and to identify what I'm feeling and to be okay with feeling that, because one, I need to figure out what I'm feeling, and for me, that takes work. For other people it might just be like there for them, but like I need to understand why am I feeling the way that I'm feeling, how can I love myself from where I am right now? How can I love this brokenness? How can I understand this brokenness? And then how can I allow myself to be loved and to growth? What do the perspectives look like? What does worship look like? Do I need to let someone into this moment? But it's about stillness for me, Like I was just sharing a message about how important it is for us to really take time to be intentional about being slow, because we have such a microwave, rapid crashit boss culture and it is amazing. But the truth is that if we don't take time to cultivate being slow, then we will end up being machines when we were created to be.
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Speaker 1: Being Well, you know that I hate. I've been hating that, saying while you was sleeping, I was grinding. Well, you crazy because I'm gonna take a nap. Well, I'm tired and I'm gonna take a nap. I'm gonna arrest. You were saying how you were allowing yourself to just be and allowing yourself to feel. Is it easy for you to be vulnerable?
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Speaker 3: You know, I think being transparent and being vulnerable are two different thing.
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Speaker 1: Two different things, yes, because I feel, especially as women, I think sometimes we are always on watch, and I believe we build these walls that we don't even know we're building. You know, that's just a way of coping, that's just the way of protecting ourselves. My mother never said you gotta be a strong woman. I just saw her strength. I never saw her crumble. I never to this day. I saw my mom cry for the first time in like two thousand and nine or ten at my grandmother's funeral. I never, in my forty one years of life have seen my mother cry. And I just remember that was a complaint in a relationship of mine, is that I'm not vulnerable. Although I feel Out'm transparent, I'm very honest, but I'm like vulnerable. So what do you mean? You want me to cry when the sun rises? You want me to cry when the birds are chirping. I don't know, but I feel like as I begin to do some healing of my own heart, I found myself being vulnerable to the point where a couple weeks ago, I was like, oh Lord, no, I need you to hearten my heart again. I don't want to feel this.
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Speaker 2: Is it easy for people to be vulnerable, Like, I don't think it's like easy, like it's not my default setting. But it is a mess space in which I know I must live in and it just requires humility, it requires
grace, it requires courage, and don't even talk about inviting someone else into that space. That's when it gets real real.
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Speaker 1: What have been some of your coping strategies during this pandemic?
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Speaker 2: Have you?
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Speaker 1: Are you a homebody? Has the pandemic been working for you? It's been working for me because I like being home.
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Speaker 3: I love being home.
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Speaker 2: Home, home is my and I think before the pandemic, I was traveling and moving so much that it took me some time to accept that I didn't have to move anymore.
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Speaker 3: And it was really like.
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Speaker 2: It was emotional for me even like it's on a spiritual level, because it gave me time to finally accept my life. And that's why I think that idea of like embracing the love is so important because your life is changing and you're moving and sometimes we miss out on what has really transpired inside of us.
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Speaker 3: And so it has been working for me. Yeah, I love being home.
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Speaker 2: It's allowed me to really prioritize my health, like At first I was eating all of the next and then I was like you for not taking your You're always on the move, so like, let's really determine like who we're going to be in this moment. And it's made me a better mother, a better wife. I'd like to say, it's made me a better and more intentional friend too.
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Speaker 1: That is awesome. And that's what checking in has been about, is making sure you are checking in with you, yeah, checking with others, and of course more importantly checking in with God. I know you've had your share of counseling single women, and I know just a few days ago you posted the most beautiful dope picture of you and Terree Pastor Terrey Roberts, your husband. I know you have many thoughts on women and singleness, and I just think that that question could It's so it's so broad. If you had one thing to say today as a relation to women in singleness, whether it's waiting, whether it's not worshiping the desire of marriage or investing in yourself, just basically, what should we be doing right now?
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Speaker 2: I think that one of the things that we haven't done the best job at doing in the really affirming a woman in her identity outside of marriage. And I think marriage has become like this arrival, this trophy, this awar that you get for doing things the right way if you leave it up to religion. Yes, yes, I believe this single woman should really take the time to really love and embrace who they are without the validation of a relationship or a man that makes them feel better. Like I think my most treasured moments with myself happened when I was single.
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Speaker 3: Now I share my life with my.
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Speaker 2: Husband and I have a life that I love because I married someone who was worthy of me sharing my life with. But I would have never made that decision had I not taken the time to really love and understand my own self worth and value. And that doesn't come from being with someone. That comes from being with yourself.
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Speaker 1: Come on, because I feel like when you have a need to be with someone, maybe that's where you settle.
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Speaker 2: So much of your identity is then wrapped up into that person you know, and so like, I know who I am unless I am with you. And I think that one of the reasons I know, for in fact, one of the reasons my husband loves me is because, like I know who I am outside of our marriage, so I know who he's receiving. I know what I can do, I know what I can't do, I know when I'm off center, what I need he to Our marriage is successful because it depends on an awareness like about our self. And if you don't have that self awareness going into a marriage, you're going to abuse the person you're with because you're going to ask them to be medicine for your soul twenty four to seven because you don't know what it takes to heal you yourself.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. So basically we have to have a way where we are soothing ourselves. We are not asking them to fill us up. Although it's nice because affirmation fills you up, protection fills you up, respect fills you up. But at the same time, you're not coming into the relationship so empty like this cup I hold in my hand, and you're expecting them to fill you up so much and you don't have anything to fill them back up with in return. And I will say when you look at that that that is definitely not fair. You spoke about the church's response to singleness and marriage. I want you to know that I appreciate on your podcast when you have doctor Anita Phillips on there talking about mental health. What do you think overall the church's response to the topic of mental health has been lately.
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Speaker 2: Lately, I think that we have come to a place where we have accepted that we are outleads when it comes to helping people walk through mental health issues, and I think that's a beautiful space to be in.
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Speaker 3: I can tell you.
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Speaker 2: About Bible study, but at the end of the day, I am not a clinical professional who can help you understand the way that your brain works, the way that your mind responds to trauma. And I think that we are allowing ourselves to be okay with that, which is freeing so many people to use prayer and therapy or weapon and not feeling like I have to choose one or the other, or that makes me less of a believer, because I've seen so many people now embracing mental health perspectives that just five years ago we would have said, you need to pray that away, or you just need to turn on the worship music and that out of go away. When you feel the Holy Spirit empowering you, it may not mean that the depression breaks you instantly in that moment, but they could definitely, Spirit is empowering you to call that therapist to finally be Okay, we're going to get that medication. And that's like the Holy Spirit
can work in a number of ways, and I feel like that's important for you people to know, even if you don't get that immediate breakthrough in the moment, if you feel like now I feel empowered to call someone, Now I feel empowered to get help. That is the Holy Spirit too, like we're going to take what he gives us an apply it to the tools that are available to us.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, I always say prayer and therapy go hand in hand. Every Monday around noon has been my standing appointment. And when I get off of my therapy, zoom, I know I can take more specific things to God in prayer, be like, now God, you hurt the therapist, you hurt what she said. And I really just encourage people that Sarah said, you can do both. You can pray and have a therapist. Because we have to also know that we cannot put everything on the minister or the pastor. You know, every minister and pastor they're not trained in that area of mental health. But I do feel like some churches are now having in house therapists in their ministry, or they have more contacts when they come in and say, pastor, this is what I'm doing this, this is what I'm going through. And instead of him just reading you a scripture or praying for you, he can do that, but he also can go into his contact list and say, hey, I want to refer you to this trusted clinical practitioner to help you in whatever area you need, and that does not diminish the God in you. I don't want people to feel like, well, if I go to therapy or if I talk to somebody about it, that I'm leaving God out the equation if I don't talk to him. I think that we are able to do both. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. If you can just encourage everybody out here about keeping their faith and how to empower us during this time. We don't know how long this pandemic is gonna last. We don't know if things are going to go back to normal. Can you give us just a moment of encouragement.
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Speaker 2: What has been encouraged me encouraging me in this season, whether it's the political division, or the pandemic or the racial undrest, is that God has not been caught by surprise by any of it. That he may look at it and his heart is breaking, but he's not looking at it as the way that I am, and that he knows the end from the beginning. And if He chose for us to be alive in this season, at this time, in this generation, it's because we can be a part of bringing the change and the transformation that is so desperately needed. And so you're listening to this, and maybe you've been feeling stressed, maybe you've been feeling lost in computer. I want you to know that you are here by design, on time, that God has a strategy and a plan, and I want to empower you to move whatever stressors, to make space to go to therapy, to get the help that you need so that you can be clear about how you can be a change agent in this season. Nothing changes the atmosphere like being a part of the change. And so I want to encourage you to do the work,
to show up so that we can see this world turn into what God had in mind when he placed us in it.
00:22:00
Speaker 1: My gosh, y'all, I'm gonna send her a cash app.
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Speaker 2: You know.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: And I say that because you always drop so much knowledge and insight for us to take away and actually apply it. It's so practical, but yet it is powerful. Sarah, I want to thank you for joining me on my podcast today. I really appreciate you forgiving us your time today.
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Speaker 3: I love you. I'm so proud of you.
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Speaker 2: I cannot believe that we are doing something new and amazing. That I shouldn't be new and amazing.
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Speaker 3: It is just what you do.
00:22:37
Speaker 1: Okay, come on, come on, well, thank you so much. We continue to lift you up and support everything you gotta do. Tell us where we can find you, and tell us anything next for you that we need to be aware of. Thank you, Sarah. We'll see you later. Okay, everybody, y'all aren't gonna hear me crying. I'm gonna try to get myself together when I say. Sarah is a friend and a sister. Sarah and her husband, they were there for me in a really, really dark moment, and I really appreciate them for that. I really thank her for not judging but praying. And we need people like that in our life when we are going through. None of us are immune to going through. And I just pray right now that everybody listening to this episode, I just want to let you know I pray that you have a safe circle. I pray that you have safe people so that when you're going through or even when you want something to celebrate, that you have a safe crowd of people who will love on you. Because yes, we have people that we can call on who actually love when we're going through something. Right, the reason why I'm crying is because which I said I wasn't gonna cry, is because she can celebrate this moment for me with my podcast. She has a podcast too, but she's not saying, well, I have a podcast, so why would I do your podcast. It's not that kind of spirit at all. And my book is called checking In, And I just am so grateful to have others that I can check in with because I teach people check in with yourself, but check in with others. And just know, I pray you feel like you're not a burden to people. There are so many people who have died by suicide simply because they felt they were a burden to somebody, simply because they felt like they could not pick up the phone and call somebody or do this when someone asks us how we're doing we lie and say we're fine. But because of the spirit that Sarah left behind, I want to go even further and pray that you feel you are your strongest when you could admit your weakness. It takes strength to tell somebody I'm not doing okay. I feel like I want to give up. You are at your strongest when you can even tell somebody yo, I even have a plan to take my own life. I'm not just talking about it. I'm gonna walk this out. I actually have a plan, and I just pray right now that you have a safe circle. We will also be providing resources for you to call. There are so many apps that are available for you to get a therapist or someone that you can talk to where you can see them face to face. Listen, y'all, we invest in our our hair, our clothes. We invest in the latest sneakers, but we're buying sneakers that cost three hundred dollars and in some places that is three therapy sessions. And if you feel like I'm preaching, I am because I want us to get to talking it out with somebody. You can do it. Men, especially, I want you to know you are at your strongest when you can admit a weakness or a struggle, and if I do, say so myself, you're a little more attractive when you can do that. Women, there is something about us being able to be vulnerable, not needy, but just vulnerable and say I'm not doing well, I'm in need of help. I'm not the strong woman that y'all see on Instagram because how many of us. We post so many things on Instagram that people don't feel like you need help. They don't feel like you need help, so they're not gonna check on you, and they say check on your quote unquote strong people. I just want to also let you know I've been there. You know. People are like, well, your friends are Beyonce and Kelly. I've got other friends, but those are the two people that people bring up the most and they say, well, those are your friends. What do you have to be sad about? You know, my depression and anxiety it started way before coming into this industry. Mine started out as whatever age around sixth or seventh grade. That's when it started for me. So you can't equate someone's success with how they're feeling on the inside. I didn't have an outlet. I didn't know what to call it. I just knew I was not feeling the same, and I thought that therapy was just for maybe upper class white people. And like I said, I talk about it more in my book Checking In. You guys have to get into it. You have to read it. You have to know getting help is one of the strongest, swaggiest things you could ever do. I can go on and on and on. I think my takeaway is you are loved. We talked about strength, we talked a little bit about entrepreneurshiping and building yourself, but I think I'm led to tell you throughout all of this, this conversation went in a whole nother direction. I just want you to know you're loved and you can make it. You're not alone. It's heavy lifting to do the work, but you can do this. You can do this if we go lift weights at the gym, or do pushups, or do whatever. If we lift that coffee cup to our mouths, if we lift that honey bun or whatever it is, that kale and spinach or that memosa, whatever you got in your hand right now, I think it takes that same amount of energy to pick up the phone and get the help you need. Or send a text to somebody. Heck, if you want to me a DM in my Instagram messages and just get it out, Get it out. Once again, you are loved. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.