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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio, news.
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Speaker 2: Let's get more analysis of the incoming Congress. Bloomberg Surveillance co-host Anne-Marie Hordern is joined by former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel.
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Speaker 1: Anne-Marie.
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Speaker 3: Good morning, Dani.
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Speaker 1: That's right.
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Speaker 3: Not just the former Chicago mayor, of course, former White House chief of staff to President Obama and the former ambassador to Japan.
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Speaker 1: So thank you so much.
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Speaker 3: For joining us this morning.
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Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
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Speaker 3: I think our viewers, Ram, just want to get a sense from you on your reaction to last night. And I will say, we spoke on the phone a few weeks ago. You were actually in South Carolina. And you said you are not thinking about this in the way it's going to play out. You thought it was going to be seismic.
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Speaker 1: And you were right. It was.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So a couple of things.
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Speaker 4: One, this is a repudiation of Trump and the Republicans. What the Democrats do in 2027 will determine whether they have won. by building a broad-based coalition that solidifies what happened last night.
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Speaker 1: Republicans, independents, voting for Democrats and giving them a second look.
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Speaker 4: We can decide whether this election is transactional or transformational. What I saw in South Carolina, and let me kind of draw this out for the viewers. This is very similar to 06 when I chaired the effort to take back the House and make Nancy Pelosi Speaker. Unpopular presidents, check, check. Unpopular war, check, check. Unpopular corruption, check, check. Rising gas prices, check, check. Here's the difference. In 06, people were tired of six years of Republican rule and disappointed in President Bush.
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Speaker 1: Here they are angry. at President Trump, that's.
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Speaker 4: Why you see these numbers of turnout across all parts significant.
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Speaker 1: Why are they angry?
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Speaker 4: He says, I'm gonna put money in your pocket, and they watched him two years putting money in his own pocket. He said, I'm gonna end endless wars, he starts an endless war. He says, I'm gonna bring prices down, and through tariffs in the war, they spike.
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Speaker 1: Nobody, Emery likes to be played as a chump.
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Speaker 4: And he played them like fools, and they gave him a two-by-four upside his head.
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Speaker 3: So this is a referendum on Trump, though.
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Speaker 1: 100%.
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Speaker 3: This is not voters saying, I agree with all these Democratic policies.
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Speaker 1: It's a repudiation, not a vindication.
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Speaker 3: So where does this leave the Democrats, then?
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Speaker 1: Because people, from what you're saying.
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Speaker 3: People are not going out and saying, we agree with everything some of these Democratic candidates had to.
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Speaker 4: What Democrats have to do, in my view, in 2027 is deliver on change in speed. That means you should have hearings, follow the money, where did it go, who gave, who paid, but deliver a lobbying.
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Speaker 1: And ethics bill.
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Speaker 4: Last one was when Senator Obama and Congressman Emanuel in 2007. Deliver a raise in the minimum wage. Deliver a restriction and repeal of these punitive tariffs. deliver healthcare reform you can get done on the legislative basis. That would vindicate change and reestablish trust. And here's the one thing I would say, and I've said this when we were in South Carolina, I had just given this speech, so I want to say it here. Look, the young men and women on the USS Abraham Lincoln, I've been on that ship, my two kids are Navy Reservists. They were at sea for 322 days.
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Speaker 1: Rancid food, no bathrooms. The U.S. Congress, 100 days in session. Get to work. Roll up your sleeves with speed and with substance. Deliver change.
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Speaker 4: And if Democrats do that, the Republicans, non-MAGA Republicans that voted for you are going.
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Speaker 1: To say, you know what? I'm good with this. Does Trump work with them? He has no other choice.
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Speaker 3: Because he says that he has veto power.
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Speaker 1: He's leaning into that. Well, there's no doubt.
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Speaker 4: Now, everything I just mentioned to you, let's just take that apart. You, I would put in there the five things. For all three branches, ban on stock trading, ban on prediction market participation, mandatory blind trust, mandatory retirement or term limits, and what I call the Kushner rule, no foreign money while in service and two years after.
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Speaker 1: There's a lot of Republicans who agree with this. That's right.
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Speaker 4: Even in Trump's administration agree with this. Republicans will vote for it, and the president has a decision. Sign it, we win. Veto it, we win. Minimum wage, sign it, Republicans will vote for it.
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Speaker 1: Sign it, we win. Veto, we win.
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Speaker 4: The tariffs will be, there will be a lot of Republicans, if you look at the advertising, against his tariff.
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Speaker 1: Policy, and he has to make a decision.
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Speaker 4: So he has a say, and my usual approach when I was mayor, when I was also chief of staff, we're going to find common ground, and when we don't, I'm going to stand my ground.
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Speaker 3: If this is a repudiation on Trump and not an enforcement on these Democratic candidates, what is your advice and have you spoken to Senator Chuck Schumer, Hakeem Jeffries? How are they going to bridge the more progressive wing of your party to the centrists?
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Speaker 4: Well, look, by picking issues that unite Democrats. So, ethics reform, and I'll give you an example, and this is a thing that leadership has to do. As I said, I'm for the
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hearings because I think it's important to find out what's going on with this Venezuela money.
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Speaker 1: Where'd it go?
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Speaker 4: You don't know, you're a business channel. You have no idea. And that's money that's supposed to, there. Now you can go towards impeachment, And that will be a food fight with no result. You can do lobbying and ethics reform, unites the Democrats, divides Republicans, and that will get signed into law. So you have to seek the key on both politics, whether it's legislative or electoral. What unites our team and divides the other side? And if you seek that bipartisanship, now, look.
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Speaker 1: Have you spoken to them at all about this? I've communicated. Do I look quiet and silent or shy? No. Well, you're never quiet and silent.
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Speaker 4: So here's what I would say, but I don't reveal those kind of conversations, but know that I've had conversations. Here's what I would say to you that's important. You now have a senator in South Carolina, a senator in Kansas. Things that haven't happened before. Since the 30s. 1939 in Kansas. You now have possibly a senator in Mississippi. And you have a governor in Georgia. You have a governor in Nevada.
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Speaker 1: Texas. And Texas.
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Speaker 4: That is not because there is a giant pull for DSA. That was a giant pull, and this is the key part, It was Democrats, independents, and non-MAGA Republicans that gave us this majority.
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Speaker 1: Build on that coalition. Don't put at risk a South Carolina senator. Now, I was in.
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Speaker 3: Is that the Democrats' biggest risk?
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Speaker 1: Well, you've got to be.
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Speaker 4: Strategic about it, and you've got to be thoughtful about it. You've got to deliver change that also, as I said, brings Democrats together.
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Speaker 1: Now, one of the rules I had as.
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Speaker 4: Mayor, one of the rules I used to say, or comments I used to say to President Obama... In politics, sound is not always fury. Sometimes it's just sound. Just because somebody is loud doesn't mean they represent a lot of people. A lot of people intimidated the Biden White House not to deal with the border.
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Speaker 1: They didn't represent the American people. They just were loud.
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Speaker 4: I can go through the list with you, but you get that gist. And so you have to know the difference between sound and fury. Now, I think there are a lot of things that will bring Democrats together.
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Speaker 1: Focus on those. Bring the energy.
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Speaker 4: But I also want to say something that is not just a substance. The American people want to see speed. And the Democrats sometimes get very focused on the rules and not on the results. Focus on the results, not on the rules and the process and in that effort. Like I would say today, I will give you an example. First two months, we're gonna have an ethics bill out of the House. You forget that in 06, when Nancy gets the gavel, we're caucus chair, we pass the six in 06 in 100 hours.
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Speaker 1: Move.
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Speaker 2: Speed counts.
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Speaker 1: Do you think they're going to do that? Yes.
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Speaker 3: Or do you think it's going to be a lot of noise around hearings? The incoming oversight chair said, quote, lawyer up.
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Speaker 4: You should have hearings because there's a lot of corruption out there. And I'm from Chicago. I have a high standard when it comes to corruption. You should have those hearings. But if you don't deliver lobbying and ethics reform, those hearings was just about.
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Speaker 1: Vindication. Not vindication. Vindictiveness. Deliver.
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Speaker 4: That change so that the Republicans who took a bet on the Kansas senator, the Republicans that took a bet on a Democratic senator in Texas, then you'll have said to that coalition, that was a good bet.
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Speaker 3: Let's talk about 2028.
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Speaker 1: Let's say we did and we don't. No, let's talk about 2028.
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Speaker 3: Who do you think this puts in prime position?
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Speaker 4: Oh, look, that's a fair question, but not the right time to ask the question.
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Speaker 1: I think what you will see— Well, because you're probably going to run. Well, look, here's how I look at it.
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Speaker 4: In 2024, the party didn't have a choice. We were told to. 2020, the same thing. 2016, you got to.
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Speaker 1: Go back to 08.
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Speaker 4: It's been 20 years since our party had a good thrashing, and we should have a good thrashing.
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Speaker 1: We should have a good debate.
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Speaker 4: Now, as I joke, 2028, it's going to be Baskin and Robbins.
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Speaker 1: You're going to have 31 flavors.
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Speaker 4: And if I decide to do this, I'm going to be Rocky Road.
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Speaker 3: Okay, but here's the problem. Can someone like you win a primary in the Democratic coalition?
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 1: Even when you have.
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Speaker 3: very left-wing progressive candidates that are also likely going to throw their name in the wing.
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Speaker 1: That's great. That's good.
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Speaker 4: Look, I'm good with across the board having a good thrashing. But here's what I know. In Michigan, or take Ohio, or take Wisconsin, or you can also go to Maine. Four states, Minnesota being blue, Ohio being red, Michigan being a battleground. You had a governor and a Senate candidate The governors all came out of the pragmatic wing of the party, and the senators all came out of the progressive wing. In those states, from blue to red to purple, the pragmatic governor won by an average 2.5% better than the progressive. Now, you could take a lark and just think that this election says that we are now the majority party and the country believes it. agrees with Democrats, or you can say, okay, there's a lesson here, and I believe when you look across the board in New Jersey governor's race, five primary candidates, the most conservative wins, and the second, or rather the third, was also on the moderate to conservative side. So look, I just think ideology and the way I look at it. Look, when I was mayor, I took on a failed education system that was failing our kids. When I was the president's chief of staff, I took on a failed financial system and a failed health care system. When I was President Clinton's senior advisor, I took on a The NRA and the insurance companies are two separate.
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Speaker 1: Giving kids, 10 million kids, healthcare they never had.
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Speaker 4: I've never accepted the status quo when it fails the American people.
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Speaker 1: And if people like that, great. If not, I'll go fly fishing.
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Speaker 3: I know you're a good fly fisher. I know you're not here to make any sort of big announcement for 2028, but Danny, I have to say, the former Chicago mayor, former Chief of Staff to President Obama, former Ambassador to Japan, Does at the end sound like he's excited potentially about throwing his name in the ring for 2028? Yeah, maybe one extra.
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Speaker 1: It's all the Starbucks coffee.
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Speaker 2: We need to get you some more Starbucks coffee. I think that's the only answer to this. Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1: Thanks.
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Speaker 2: Both of you for joining for that excellent conversation. Anne-Marie Hordurd and Rahm Emanuel, whose career spans many legislative, executive and diplomatic roles.