Jito Foundation's Marc Liew on Why Institutions Are Turning to Solana | Blockcast 83 の全文書き起こし

trade financing, digital assets, and most notably CBDC, central bank digital currencies. 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:56.399 We had the opportunity to be in front of a lot of regulators, really understanding their learning curve and see how we can help them. 00:04:56.399 --> 00:05:05.279 Um so I was at R3 working with uh different regulators, different central banks and institutions in terms of looking at digital assets and CBDC. 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:10.560 Um I was at R3 for about six years, and then I had an opportunity to join Ripple. 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:23.920 Um, so that was really interesting because we were actually at a crossroad where thinking about okay, CBDC, is this going mainstream or is stablecoin gonna be you know the thing to go as the next phase of crypto evolution? 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:33.279 I still remember um when I joined Ripple, um we had the opportunity to really assess CBDC or stablecoin. 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:49.040 So in the end, we decided that you know, because of how the landscape is actually evolving and more fiat currency is actually coming online, we had the opportunity to pivot uh from focusing on CBDC into launching our own stablecoin RLUSD. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.120 Um, huge market cap right now. 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:56.079 But back then, if you look back like 20 months ago, it was just USDC and USDT, right? 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:03.600 But right now, you see so many other uh payments companies launching their stablecoin, so many stablecoin companies launching their own blockchain. 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.959 So you sort of have the trifecta. 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:13.519 You gotta have a payments network, have your own stable coins and uh and the blockchain technology underpinning it, right? 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:18.240 I call that a trifecta of killer use case for blockchain technology. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:26.879 But when you look at it, it is still talking about bringing traditional fiat currency on-chain, right? 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:32.720 And Daka, you've been in this space for a while, you know how hard it is to bring traditional money on-chain, right? 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:37.759 You need to think about wallet addresses, blockchain addresses, etc., etc., etc. 00:06:37.759 --> 00:06:55.040 So, what actually drew me to Solana and Jito Foundation uh subsequently, I wanted to look at how we can evolve, you know, um, the whole industry beyond just like bringing traditional assets on chain, right? 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:06.639 Has anyone ever asked about how do we actually make crypto more accessible for the wider audience, for the track fire guys, for the NCD guys, without having to go through all the technicalities of crypto, right? 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.560 Um so Gito actually has a really strong narrative, right? 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:14.639 Um Gito obviously is the Solana revenue engine, right? 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:21.839 We call it the revenue engine because we help to govern um

and allocate most of the transactions on Solana. 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.639 Um 93% of validators on Solana uses uh Gito's uh product. 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.199 We have a few products, happy to go through them. 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:35.920 Um and Gito really helps to actually secure the decentralization part of the Solana network. 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:49.439 So if you think about the comparison between the Web 2 technology and the Web3 technology, I think us as active Web3 participants, we have an opportunity to really build a self-sustainable Web3 economy, right? 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:59.199 That is totally different from your traditional SaaS model where you charge like an annual fee and then you expect your customers to pay you year in, year out, and then cross your fingers that they they like it, right? 00:07:59.199 --> 00:08:02.800 Web3 is a very different ballgame altogether, right? 00:08:02.800 --> 00:08:07.199 Web3 is about community, about developers adopting the blockchain. 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:12.240 At the end of the day, you know, some of the um economic values get passed back to the participants. 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:13.839 And I think that's really wonderful. 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:17.759 And in the long run, you know, it can be a self-sustainable new economic model. 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:18.160 Yeah. 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.759 Well, the whole promise of crypto was generally peer-to-peer. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:29.279 So even if you are securing a network, it's still kind of a peer-to-peer where everybody participates and they get they get the economic rewards from it. 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:35.679 So I totally understand the dynamics of like the crypto how it's very different from the traditional finance businesses. 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:44.480 But since I got you here, and I'd love to ask you uh from your previous kind of work on working on payments, crypto was designed, as I mentioned, it was like a peer-to-peer. 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:45.679 So we take out the middlemen. 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.159 In the payment space, how many middlemen are there? 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:55.759 Because, you know, as you mentioned, it's a very, you know, opaque industry that you don't really see what's going on in the background. 00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:01.600 So if I tap with my card um at a POS machine, I get a receipt that says World Pay. 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.399 I didn't even use World Pay, but like World Pay comes out, right? 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:18.879 So there's a lot of companies that are participating in the network so that your payments can actually get done from your bank account, through a credit card, through uh whatever you know, middlemen who are who are in between to that merchant, right? 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:24.879 So could you explain a little bit how that plumbing works and how how how many participants are there in that space? 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:27.039 Yeah, no, that great question, right? 00:09:27.039 --> 00:09:37.039 So if you look at the current state of the economy that we are we are actually in, obviously um there are so many different types of cross-border payments, right? 00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:45.840 You're talking about remittances, you're talking about e-commerce payments channel, you're talking about aggregator, you're talking about card networks, visa, mastercard, so on and so forth. 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:54.159 And there are so many fintechs out there um trying to create solutions um utilizing some of these existing rails, right? 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:55.679 And you're absolutely right. 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:58.159 There are so many middlemen right there. 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:03.279 Um is there an opportunity where we can streamline everything overnight? 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:10.480 The question, I'm sorry, the answer is no, unfortunately, because the payments business has been around for a very long time, right? 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:19.279 No matter what, you will still need this so-called middleman to function in order for our economy to still keep you know uh running, right? 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:21.440 The the lights being turned on, etc. 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:28.480 But over time, is there an opportunity for us to reach that state where some of this middleman can actually go away? 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:29.919 The answer is yes, right? 00:10:29.919 --> 00:10:34.159 Stablecoin is definitely a very good utility to actually do that, right? 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:35.759 Look at Tether. 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:47.360 I think they go grow to where they are today, having less than 100 employees because they really attack the problem right from you know the root cause, right? 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:52.000 Giving people the the tool um to transact, you know, in the real world, right? 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:56.320 How do they actually disseminate um stable coins into the real economy? 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:06.559 Um but you know, coming back to our economy right now, most of these so-called middlemen are obviously getting into the stablecoin game as well, right? 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:22.399 I say at least for the next two to three years, you still see this um development happening because uh whether you like it or not, stablecoin is probably one or two use cases in crypto that has still got legs to run. 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:28.480 Um and it makes sense from an economic point of view, because it's about bringing traditional fiat on chain. 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:34.879 But over time, right, the competition will actually um filter itself out, like whoever can actually stay. 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:41.919 Because at the end of the day, you if you want your stable coin to thrive, you need to have adoption, right? 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:43.759 And how do you drive adoption? 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:46.559 You need to have network effect and economy of scale, right? 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:55.840 So probably the larger,

the larger incumbents already with their own payment networks, it's actually much easier for them to integrate stablecoin within their payments network. 00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:04.240 And in that process, maybe they can streamline the process and then get rid of some of these middle components that's you know slowing down the payments. 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:08.000 So that's the way I see how the in the industry is actually evolving into. 00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:08.559 Yeah. 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:11.440 Even in the crypto space, obviously you have to on-ramp. 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.759 And then even if you go to a merchant, it doesn't mean that they're gonna accept your US dollar stables. 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.720 So there has to be some middlemen in between, right? 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:34.399 So, you know, in in the current setup today, I mean, do do we have we eliminated a lot of the middlemen that is in the traditional space that you know we don't and and and um has it become a lot more efficient, do you think, in your view? 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:38.720 I think we are definitely becoming more efficient. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:41.600 You mentioned a very important point, which is on-ramp, right? 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:45.600 So when it comes to on-ramp, there's also an opportunity to talk about off-ramp, right? 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:59.440 So, for example, you know, if someone who is actually working in, I don't know, Spain, trying to um, you know, send money home into the Philippines, obviously there's on-ram and off-ram, you know, um, you know, you can't just spend euro in the Philippines, right? 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:08.159 You will still need local uh payments company that helps with that FX conversion, and then ultimately people can off-ram into you know pesos and spend locally. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:11.759 So that is still gonna be a necessity, right? 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:16.799 But we see it happening maybe over time, it will get more streamlined. 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:34.240 Say, for example, you know, hypothetically, let's just say USDT becomes so um, you know, broadly adopted, everyone started transacting in USDT in terms of or instead of their local currency, then maybe there's an opportunity that you know something will emerge over time as like a widely adopted standard. 00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:35.120 Right. 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:35.440 Yeah. 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:35.759 Okay. 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.840 I think we're derailed a little bit, so let's go back into the main topic. 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:52.399 Um so yes, so now you you're working you're working for a JITO Foundation, uh, and um what I understand from you know kind of what what JITO is is that it's a liquid restaking um um service. 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:54.240 However, I'm sure there's a lot more to that. 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:59.360 When I open up your webpage, obviously there's words like MEV, you know, there's liquid staking. 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:20.320 I mean, obviously the you know our audiences are well um well educated around crypto, but generally if we go to like a lay person and this and and talk about you know staking in general, I mean you have your kind of big staking providers of the world, like you have Figmint and you know, Killen and all these people who are also securing the Solana network. 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.639 Um how does Jito uh play into that? 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.159 Are they one of the participants or are they are you guys like a layer on top of that? 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:29.440 Yeah, that's a good question. 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:31.840 So happy to take it from the top, right? 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:44.480 So um what really attracted me to the Jito um um, you know, to Jito project is because Jito solves um the one thing that institutions hate most about public chains, right? 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.960 Um which is execution uncertainty. 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.720 Um so banks, institutions, they need certainty um and compliance, right? 00:14:52.720 --> 00:15:01.360 So Jito essentially transforms Solana from a wow ecosystem into an institutional great um global deterministic execution layer. 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:07.200 Um so we mitigate spam, fail transactions, and uh predatory MEV, right? 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:13.039 Solana is the you can think about Solana as the global execution layer for real economic value. 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:17.759 And Jito is the revenue engine that makes building on Solana profitable. 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:18.240 Right? 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:25.360 So let me actually go deeper into like some of the um products that we have that is actually helping to do that. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:31.600 So um I think layman term, you can think about Jito as the revenue engine of Solana, right? 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:35.600 So let's just say Solana is the highway, right? 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.519 Yes, you can drive super super fast, um, etc. 00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:47.919 But when it when when it gets too many cars on the highway, if you that if there's no traffic control, who gets to go first, right? 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:49.600 That's the biggest question, yes. 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:51.759 So this is where Gito comes in. 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:59.840 So we help to actually power more than 93% of Solana validators, and we run the largest liquid sticking protocol with a 2 billion TVR. 00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:06.240 So um coming back from the point of MEV, maximum uh extractable value, right? 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:16.240 So on most public chains, um value actually leaks because transactions get pulled into public main pool, people can see transaction details, etc. 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:20.720 People always get front run and then the sandwich attack, you know. 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.679 Um that actually adds on to a lot of uh challenges in terms of really adopting uh public chain. 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.799 Gito

actually like we plug the leak, you know. 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.360 We we are an integrated stack of three things. 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:40.240 First and foremost, we have the Jito Solana client, which is a software that 93% of validators actually run to optimize performance, right? 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:51.600 If you want your transactions to actually land faster uh on Solana, you can actually provide uh Jito chips so that it can land faster on Solana, um transactions get sequenced better. 00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:57.440 And then two months ago, we launched something called the Block Assembly Marketplace, or in short, BAM. 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:02.879 So BAM is an engine that actually captures MEV um transparently. 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:12.559 So um you know, without BAM, trading boards actually spam the network with millions of failed transactions trying to land a trade. 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:17.440 So this actually clocks up the chain, right, and degrades the user um experience. 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:27.279 So what BAM does is, right, without too going into too much technicalities, so BAM uses what we call a trusted execution environment, TEE, to create a secure auction. 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:33.519 So as traders, you bid to have your bundles included and your transactions go through. 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:36.960 Um so transactions remain private until they are executed. 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.599 So front running cannot take place, right? 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:43.440 And then the benefit actually leads to that is BAM creates an app auction. 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:56.559 So this reduces spam, increases reliability, and via the application control execution ace, um it allows apps builder to control their own transaction by um, you know, ordering to prevent exploitation. 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:02.799 Um and last but not least, the third product that we we are really proud of is uh JiroSol. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:11.119 Um pretty much is a token that packages the value within the Solana network and distributes it to the stickers, right? 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:16.960 Um you can think of Jirosol as like your deposit, right? 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:25.039 You go to the bank, you put in $100, and then the banks will tell you, okay, over the next six months we'll pay you X percent in terms of your deposit. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:31.440 Now the biggest challenge is you can't take out the $100 because you will lose your interest, sorry, right? 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:35.759 Jirosol, in a way, is very similar to a bank deposit. 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:42.079 You help to secure the Solana network by sticking Solana, but in return, you will get a token called JiroSol. 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:53.359 Now, this JiroSol, then you can deploy into DeFi applications as a collateral to borrow, to land out, and to do so many different things, right? 00:18:53.359 --> 00:19:07.920 Um, not only DeFi players are actually looking at JiroSoul as a collateral, we are also working with institutions who is actually actively looking at can they actually include J2SOL as part of their collaterals, whether it's market makers, whether it's prime uh brokers, etc. 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:16.240 Uh, and we're also working with ETF issuers to include JOSOL as part of their ETF filing to meet uh redemption uh requests as well. 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:17.039 Yeah. 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:27.519 So let's put in the pin on that la last part, but let's talk about the first two parts because um obviously if I had to compare Solana with Ethereum, obviously it's a much faster chain. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:32.319 I mean that's that's kind of kind of the the the catchphrase for Solana, right? 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.880 It's a better Ethereum, the faster Ethereum. 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:42.160 With Ethereum, in in order to kind of validate transactions, it takes like 12 seconds or so, if I'm c if I'm not mistaken. 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:51.519 Um so obviously it happens in a pretty fast speed to sort out okay which which transactions go into the block and you know, and then they're broadcasted, right? 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:55.920 In in terms of so, I I could probably imagine like it's much faster than that, right? 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:06.480 So you're saying that from bat with BAM, you're running auctions in a Split second kind of interim to actually do these auctions and put them in, put all the transactions in line. 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:07.359 Am I correct? 00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.759 Yes, that's the right way of actually understanding it. 00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:16.960 And we help with the governance of how blocks are actually being sequenced. 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:32.000 So ever since BAM's been launched, you know, we are having a lot of conversations with existing Solana validators in terms of upgrading their current infrastructure to BAM, which is a more streamlined approach. 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.680 And also from Gito, there's also something called a StakeNet, right? 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:51.039 So every time a stake actually comes true, via StackNet, the smart contract actually automatically and autonomously assign a stake to top validators to actually maintain and govern the allocation in a fair and transparent way. 00:20:51.039 --> 00:21:14.079 So that way also we help to actually make sure that, hey, you know, not only developers are actually profiting or enjoying the speed and all the nice features of Solana, but people that's actually doing a hard work, the validators, the people that's actually helping to secure the infrastructure, they are you know they they get the the right reward so that you know it's a sustainable business model that can run on a long-term basis. 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:34.960 And MEVs are generally known to kind of like make the um the I guess the staking, you know, or I'll say the blockchain transactions a lot more efficient because they'll try to find like, okay, um, you

know, what which which who who can pay the highest fees to get certain transactions done? 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:39.519 And obviously that would cause uh front running, back running, sandwiches, et cetera. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:45.359 Um and that's kind of how it uh has always been run um prior to uh Solana, I think. 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:54.400 And and then now with this, does it kind of lower the value of having MAV or does it enhance it? 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.000 Because I'm trying to understand here. 00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:02.319 So if you're trafficking everything, obviously it makes it a lot more fair, is my kind of understanding. 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:11.200 But it also takes out the kind of efficiencies of you know certain, you know, uh people kind of front running, et cetera. 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.519 Right. 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.680 So how do how do I kind of understand this? 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:15.920 No, that's a really good question, right? 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:21.440 Um, I think the way we look at it is no matter how you put it, there's always going to be two scenarios. 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.880 There will always be people trying to take advantage of certain features, right? 00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.480 There's always two sides of the story. 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:34.559 But when it comes to BAM, what we are trying to uh provide the community is a fair and square and transparent environment. 00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:37.599 Transactions details remain private until they are executed. 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:52.480 I mean, if you are a genuine developer who is actually trying to build uh and send through transactions, you love this because you know that you know uh your benefits is actually secure, and then your transactions can actually go through, and then you can, you know, deliver, right? 00:22:52.480 --> 00:23:02.000 And obviously, you know, if you are trying to speculate and profit from those old systems in terms of how MEV is actually run, that would be unfortunate news for you. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:13.039 So we believe you know in making a transparent system, putting it in place, and then over time serving the right type of profile in terms of developers and growing the ecosystem with Solana. 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:13.440 Yeah. 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.720 Currently, what is the uh staking rewards that one can get on JTO? 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:23.839 You know, JitoSoul typically gives out um six to eight percent of APY. 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.960 Um obviously, you know, it depends on how the market performs. 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:29.839 Uh, but typically you get that kind of uh range, right? 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:37.039 And obviously, JitoSoul, you know, is uh relatively new as a liquid staking um um utility token. 00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.680 And um, but the good thing is, you know, we have made so much inroads in the institutional space. 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:50.880 Just a couple of months ago, the SEC has actually released a statement uh concerning liquid staking tokens as that you know it doesn't fall within the securities law. 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:59.680 Um that has actually opened a lot of doors for us to have conversations with ETF issuers um in terms of including JitoSoul as part of their filing. 00:23:59.680 --> 00:24:05.359 So maybe let me just double-click a little bit in terms of the work that we're doing with some of the issuers um in the space. 00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:13.759 So um, you know, I still remember when the first Bitcoin ETF was launched, I think January 2024. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:25.920 That was a really good timing and window because if you think about it, is that ETF is such a good uh vehicle for a lot of these ThreatFi investors to get exposure to crypto, right? 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:32.720 Without having to acquire a hot wallet or cold wallet or having to worry about blockchain addresses and all that, right? 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:36.319 So these guys are familiar with the threat fire world, right? 00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:44.640 So um the best thing is how do we actually make it seamless and make it straightforward for them to actually tap into crypto assets, right? 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:59.680 ETF is definitely a vehicle because by launching ETF, that means to threat fine investors, they can easily invest into crypto assets via the threatfine brokerage accounts that they already have and they've been using for years, right? 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:01.759 This is where they are most comfortable with. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:12.319 So um we've seen Bitcoin ETF last year, we've seen a lot of uh Ethereum ETF last year, and this year the story is always about um Solana ETF, right? 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:28.720 So we work with a lot of different issuers, mainly from the states, in terms of helping them to actually um file for Solana ETF, and part of their filing actually includes JitoSol, certain percentage to be JitoSol, so that they can actually meet redemption requests. 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:41.839 Because think about it, if you are an issuer, whether you are BlackRock, you know, um 21 shares or Venek, you have customers always asking you, hey, all right, you know, I'm I'm done with this ETF, I want my money back, right? 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:42.880 Redemption requests. 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:52.799 Now the problem with that is what we are seeing is say Ethereum, um, I think the unstaking period is really long, but 44 days, 45 days. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.359 Um Solana is actually slightly better, two epochs, it's still about three or four days. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:01.039 But from an institutional client's perspective, it's still not good enough. 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.519 They felt that redemption means instant, you know, T plus zero. 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:13.680 If my client comes and you know, give me the ETF, I need to actually um give my clients back their money, right? 00:26:13.680 -->

00:26:16.319 Uh within the same day, settle back into the bank account. 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:23.119 So one way to look at it is that they park certain of their allocation in JitoSol, right? 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:27.440 Because technically JitoSoul um you know is staked Solana, right? 00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:36.960 So anytime they have a redemption request, they can sell the Jitoso, they burn the JitoSol, they can actually get Solana right away without having to go through and wait the unstaking period. 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.720 So that's a really good utility uh for Solana ETF. 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.079 So that's actually a very strong angle. 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:46.079 A lot of these uh issuers are actually looking at including JitoSol. 00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:59.599 Um VanEck has also filed 100% JitoSol ETF, and uh we're working with them, you know, um, and then all the other issuers in terms of helping to see how we can actually um bring this to market um as soon as possible, right? 00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:04.319 Um and of course, you know, JitoSol, there's also another very strong angle. 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.559 Uh we call it the Yield machine. 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:14.079 Um obviously, you know, uh if you look at the last decade, people buy digital assets purely on speculation. 00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:22.880 No matter how much of stories that you want to, you know, uh cover it or just you know build the narrative around, it's all speculation. 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.359 Yeah. 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:28.720 I mean, Bitcoin, uh proof of um soil values, yeah, you will always appreciate. 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:37.519 But at the end of the day, if you are an institutional client, if you want to deploy your treasury into digital assets, you need a stronger narrative than just speculation. 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:39.920 This is where JitoSoul comes in, right? 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:53.200 So if you can think about, you can think of JitoSol as a token that actually gives you the inflationary uh appreciation of Solana token plus all the MEV fees, right? 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:57.440 So suddenly your narrative becomes an infrastructure investment, right? 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:07.359 You're deploying your treasury into JitoSol because the more transactions that happen on Solana, the more fees will actually get collected and passed back to JotoSol holders. 00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:15.359 So it's a very strong narrative that institutional clients are very comfortable with, and then we're seeing a lot of uh positive uh attraction from that front. 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:15.759 Yeah. 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.319 So when you talk about, we talk to institutions. 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:24.720 Obviously, uh by this time, I think every institution generally knows what the value prop is for Bitcoin. 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:28.640 And I think for Ethereum as well, I think they're slowly catching up onto it. 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:43.039 And I think a

lot of that kind of uh narrative is around we're super decentralized, and you know, this is the first blockchain that has smart contracts as the biggest DeFi community ecosystem that blockchain companies have ever built. 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:45.359 So, what is the current narrative? 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:47.759 Not the retail side, but for the institutions. 00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:50.160 What is the narrative of Solana? 00:28:50.480 --> 00:29:05.440 Yeah, this is something very close to my heart as well, because having come from two uh major institutional focused L1s, I realized that decentralization is becoming less and less important for a lot of institutional clients. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:11.519 Because at the end of the day, if you think about it, people just want things to happen faster and bring asset on chain, right? 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:14.799 There's a whole stablecoin rush, there's a whole RWA rush. 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:27.920 So when I when I scan the landscape, I see Solana be still flying the flag for decentralization and JITO really building the infrastructure for decentralization, right? 00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:36.160 And I think that's like super important because we don't want crypto to turn into another SaaS model, right? 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:51.119 You don't want to be in a future where I don't know, your service provider is actually selling you something on a SaaS model, and they're using some sort of blockchain behind the scene to optimize that operation, right? 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:54.400 It's not exactly like a Web3 economic model. 00:29:54.400 --> 00:30:10.960 So when I look at Solana, I think Solana has the advantage of the winning second mover kind of tagline because maybe a decade ago, people still talk about TPS, people talk about performance and all that stuff. 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.200 Right now, people don't talk about TPS anymore. 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.839 People just see whether things can happen and things will stake, right? 00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:25.759 And if you look at the Solana ecosystem, all of the Defi projects that are building on Solana, they grow very organically. 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:31.519 They have their own very dedicated user base and most of these projects collaborate with each other. 00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:41.200 It's a very healthy kind of environment and Solana's vision has always been hey, you know, uh we are a monolithic uh blockchain layer, you know. 00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:47.839 It means all the liquidity from institutional side and retail side happened on Solana itself. 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:48.400 Period. 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:48.720 Right? 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:56.880 You're not you're not talking about silo liquidity, you're not talking about layer one, layer two, it's a very different vision altogether. 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.279 It's very close to what we are as an economy, right? 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:11.519 Can you imagine if you are in a world where your currency, you know, whatever that you're actually using is silo, and then you don't interact with other countries in the world, right? 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:23.200 In a way, so Solana it has that positioning in terms of a monolithic liquidity layer, and then JITO providing the infrastructure layer to govern some of these transactions, right? 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:28.000 And coming back to the decentralization part, um, we have our product called StakeNet. 00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:41.519 So StakeNet actually ensures every stake that comes through the protocol gets uh distributed autonomously through all the top validators depending on their performance via smart contracts. 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.119 No human is involved, no Jito um team members are involved in that process. 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:55.279 Even if one day Jito shuts or goes away, StakeNet will still operate on its own autonomously. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:59.440 And um yeah, I think that's the best way to really build decentralization. 00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:12.799 Um yeah, the way I look at it is that decentralization can only happen when you put the right tools in place and you have the right projects helping to push that vision forward in a in a in in a collaborative manner. 00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:22.319 And and the way I see it, Solana has a really thriving ecosystem and I think this is a good time to also talk about Breakpoint, which is happening next week in Abu Dhabi. 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:23.680 I think it's gonna be late. 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.599 Um you know, everyone from within the Solana ecosystem is gonna be there. 00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:29.440 And yeah, it's gonna be exciting. 00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:29.839 Yeah. 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:35.920 I was gonna I point you to it to that direction later, but let me derail a little bit. 00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:56.000 Because you work for R3, Ripple, I mean, you know, I've seen Solana, you know, really from its beginning and then you know have its kind of really questionable moment during the FTX collapse and then really kind of matured into this um blockchain ecosystem where you don't need that much like support from the outside. 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.359 It's like it just organically, as you mentioned, it started growing, right? 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:15.440 And you know, on the on the opposite end of the spectrum, and I don't mean to like bash any foundations or even Ripple at this point, but like I'm just saying, like the the XRP ecosystem hasn't really really grown that much of a DeFi ecosystem, right? 00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:21.519 But it's a monstrosity on of its own, and they could buy companies and do whatever they want. 00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:23.839 So, like, so what what do you think? 00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:25.440 And this is a personal question, right? 00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:27.119 A bit more philosophical as well. 00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:33.359 What do you think it takes for a blockchain to actually

get to where like Solana is? 00:33:33.359 --> 00:33:35.680 What is the kind of organical growth? 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:44.160 How do how does the blockchain foundation actually get that kind of organical growth as opposed to like really trying to pay for its growth? 00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:45.039 You know what I mean? 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:47.599 No, I think that's a really good question, right? 00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.839 So there are a thousand roads that can lead to Rome, right? 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:53.920 Depending on how you want to actually get there. 00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.640 And you are right, right? 00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:09.280 So there are definitely a lot of traditional uh financial players, especially from the web tool world, um, they're thinking about using certain elements of blockchain to optimize their businesses, right? 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:17.920 Makes sense because you know they they are they have they are incumbents, you know, they have a lot of customers to serve, right? 00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.599 It doesn't make sense to do like a whole big bang migration, etc. 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:32.320 but if you are a developer today that's just starting out in Web3 and you're looking for a place to land, um, Solana makes a lot of sense, right? 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:44.239 Because you know, great team building great stuff and and and and the ecosystem helps themselves, and most importantly, there's a lot of organic growth. 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:49.840 There's no right or wrong in terms of you know how to be successful in Web3, right? 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:55.679 I think it all depends on the different business model, one that's actually in, right? 00:34:55.679 --> 00:35:10.960 And I pointed out earlier during during um you know our session, obviously the flavor of the money right now is definitely payments network utilizing stable coins and uh blockchain technology because there's low hanging fruit, right? 00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.920 That trend will definitely continue. 00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:24.159 h maybe down the road, you know, there will be some industry shakeout, and then you will see one or two um companies you know emerging as winners. 00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:26.400 It's definitely a place to be. 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.840 Um but for Solana it's a very different positioning altogether. 00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:33.039 You know, Solana called itself the internet capital markets. 00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:44.079 Um, you know, essentially you look at Solana as like the NASDAQ of battery, like everything trades on Solana, even tokens from another foundation launched on Solana last week. 00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:48.960 So that is definitely something unique that's never never happened before. 00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:59.039 And um, yeah, we see a lot of opportunity on Solana, especially with Jito, and then we're hoping to um grow together with Solana and helping to serve the community. 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:05.360 So, yeah, coming back to your question, I don't there's no right or wrong way in terms of how you can be successful in Web3. 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.920 It it very much depends on the business model that one uh chooses to be in. 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:16.960 And for Jito, you know, we are we are bullish Solana from day one, and then we are here uh for the long term working with the community. 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:17.920 Right. 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:18.480 Okay. 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.559 Well, thank you very much for your time. 00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.920 I hope the uh Solana breakpoint is a big success. 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:32.960 Unfortunately, I can't go but I've been to some others, obviously while I was in Singapore or other parts of Asia. 00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:36.639 It was quite exciting to be at those conferences. 00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.880 Um but again, thank you very much for your time. 00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:41.119 Thanks for listening. 00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:45.760 If you like what you hear, give Blockcast a like and subscribe on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:49.599 And for all your juicy web30 news, keep updated on blockhead.co. 00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:51.519 Catch y'all in the next episode.