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WINNING GOLF MIND with Lee Crombleholme | Dope Stroke Podcast Show #8

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WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:09.962 You know, you talk about first-tea nerves, players getting nervous in front of more than three players. 2 00:00:10.402 --> 00:00:11.622 That is normal. 3 00:00:12.183 --> 00:00:15.864 We need to normalise nerves and pressure and anxiety. 4 00:00:15.984 --> 00:00:17.685 It's a human emotion. 5 00:00:18.126 --> 00:00:27.010 A couple of years ago, when Matt Wallace was in the playoff at Cron, I was working with him then, but he actually said in an interview, so I can say it. 6 00:00:27.070 --> 00:00:32.773 He went into that playoff really flat, got beat, and then when he was in the playoff a few months ago, 7 00:00:33.473 --> 00:00:36.677 Man possessed, he was just like, this is... 8 00:00:37.277 --> 00:00:39.680 He obviously birded that first playoff hole to win. 9 00:00:42.548 --> 00:00:46.290 Hey guys, welcome back to episode number eight of the Doak Stroke podcast. 10 00:00:46.370 --> 00:00:50.012 Took a little bit of heat last time, last episode, I'm sure you guys heard it. 11 00:00:50.252 --> 00:00:52.553 Mr. Darrell Evans is joining me and Chris Ryan. 12 00:00:52.573 --> 00:00:54.874 Today we do have a special guest, I'm gonna get to that. 13 00:00:55.154 --> 00:01:11.562 Did take a little bit of heat from the dog in the last session, so today, those of you watching on YouTube will notice I am at the KBS Golf Establishment, which is player-driven, tour-proven, which perfectly ties into today's guest because I'm joined by 14 00:01:12.242 --> 00:01:14.784 Wirral Massive inductee. 15 00:01:15.124 --> 00:01:24.450 Not absolute Wirral Massive, but he's in there for his Hall of Fame stuff that he has achieved with Paul Waring, who obviously is, we are Wirral Proud. 16 00:01:25.251 --> 00:01:32.636 The man today actually got me a loose Challenge Tour card back in about 1985, so he gets credit for that too. 17 00:01:32.996 --> 00:01:36.557 He's helped countless amateurs, countless mini tour players. 18 00:01:36.937 --> 00:01:39.037 He's helped top 50 players in the world. 19 00:01:39.497 --> 00:01:48.539 He's one of those behind the scenes guys that people don't realize are there until you turn up at a World Golf Championship. 20 00:01:48.619 --> 00:01:52.680 And he's cruising around, staying behind the scenes, doing great work. 21 00:01:52.780 --> 00:01:55.541 It's Mr. Lee Crumble home from Winning Golf Mind. 22 00:01:55.581 --> 00:02:00.402 Lee, first off, congratulations, because you are the psychologist for Paul Waring. 23 00:02:01.821 --> 00:02:02.521 Cheers, Trotty. 24 00:02:02.561 --> 00:02:08.243 Yeah, that was rather nice, that one, to be fair. 25 00:02:08.984 --> 00:02:11.644 It was a fantastic week. 26 00:02:12.385 --> 00:02:13.565 Started off great. 27 00:02:13.725 --> 00:02:19.527 He's been playing good for a while, to be fair, and it was only a matter of bringing it all together. 28 00:02:20.408 --> 00:02:26.170 And he just happened to bring it together on one of the bigger weeks on the DP World Tour. 29 00:02:26.870 --> 00:02:28.170 Excellent timing as well. 30 00:02:28.390 --> 00:02:29.951 So, yeah, all good. 31 00:02:31.898 --> 00:02:41.101 So, Lee, with that sort of move that he made right at the end there, which has now secured a PGA Tour card, will you end up spending a lot more time over there? 32 00:02:41.141 --> 00:02:42.722 But you do a lot of stuff in America anyway. 33 00:02:42.762 --> 00:02:52.266 So I'm just trying to think about how your life changes, if at all, with this fact that Paul's obviously gone on to do so well. 34 00:02:52.966 --> 00:02:55.767 Well, I'd go over once a month anyway to see Matt Wallace. 35 00:02:56.651 --> 00:03:00.354 who's obviously playing out on the PGA Tour. 36 00:03:00.515 --> 00:03:08.642 I've worked with him, well, in this run for about two and a half years now. 37 00:03:08.782 --> 00:03:09.903 We worked previously. 38 00:03:11.444 --> 00:03:19.532 So they're both going to be on that same schedule, which is the non-elevated event or signature events or whatever they're calling it this year. 39 00:03:21.293 --> 00:03:25.435 So, yeah, they're both going to be playing pretty much exactly the same schedule. 40 00:03:25.495 --> 00:03:34.780 So rather than me going over to just see Matt, I'll be going over to see Matt and Paul, which is obviously, you know, much better. 41 00:03:35.020 --> 00:03:36.301 You know, it's great. 42 00:03:36.521 --> 00:03:37.502 So happy days. 43 00:03:37.522 --> 00:03:42.544 So I lost a little bit of audio there, slight technical issue, but we're back. 44 00:03:42.564 --> 00:03:46.826 I had my mate actually from the Wirral calling me, but thankfully I'm back in the room now, Lee, so we've got you. 45 00:03:47.167 --> 00:03:47.587 But... 46 00:03:48.443 --> 00:03:52.789 Just so I can catch up a little bit here, you have that great victory, you have that win. 47 00:03:52.850 --> 00:03:54.272 Obviously, you work with Matt Wallace as well. 48 00:03:54.312 --> 00:03:57.496 I just heard you covering that, which now gives your schedule the same thing. 49 00:03:58.137 --> 00:04:01.943 When these guys come to you, or when any customer comes to you, 50 00:04:02.490 --> 00:04:04.171 Are they playing well? 51 00:04:04.191 --> 00:04:05.632 Are they generally playing poor? 52 00:04:05.732 --> 00:04:09.994 I can obviously speak from personal experiences that, and I want to give a bit more context to that. 53 00:04:10.054 --> 00:04:10.955 That was the goal. 54 00:04:11.435 --> 00:04:13.696 You and I worked together many years ago when I used to play. 55 00:04:13.756 --> 00:04:18.979 And I think like I've just done some time with short game chef, Paul, I've just done some time. 56 00:04:18.999 --> 00:04:19.820 I'm all over the show. 57 00:04:19.880 --> 00:04:21.501 Parker McLaughlin out in Arizona. 58 00:04:21.921 --> 00:04:23.982 And we worked on short game. 59 00:04:24.022 --> 00:04:31.006 One of the things he spoke about though, is he gets a lot of people that are returning to golf
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after having kids, starting a family, they've been good players, then they're coming back. 60 00:04:31.907 --> 00:04:37.860 Are your clients that or are they predominantly tour players? 61 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.964 Right now, because I travel so much. 62 00:04:41.023 --> 00:04:43.944 I probably do 25 tournaments a year. 63 00:04:44.604 --> 00:04:49.987 So I'm kind of slightly different to a lot of the sports psychologists that are out there. 64 00:04:51.227 --> 00:04:54.688 I do like to travel to tournaments and see my clients face-to-face. 65 00:04:55.649 --> 00:05:00.511 In answer to your question, are they usually in a good spot when they come and see me for the first time? 66 00:05:00.651 --> 00:05:00.851 No. 67 00:05:00.871 --> 00:05:05.513 There's probably only Matt Wallace who's... 68 00:05:06.193 --> 00:05:14.502 who when we first started working together in, I think it was 2018 or 17 or something, he'd won about three weeks before. 69 00:05:15.684 --> 00:05:20.869 But he knew that it was, whenever the Open was at Carnoustie around that time, 17, 18, 17, 70 00:05:23.492 --> 00:05:35.317 He called me and asked to see me because even though he just won, I think he just won his second or his second event or something, he knew that he wanted to get better mentally. 71 00:05:36.317 --> 00:05:38.238 And he is literally the only one. 72 00:05:38.998 --> 00:05:43.600 that has ever rung me up when they're not kind of at the lowest ebb. 73 00:05:43.940 --> 00:05:48.782 Because when a player, a tall player, starts to struggle, they will look at the technique. 74 00:05:49.202 --> 00:05:51.403 Obviously, they'll start to look at the goal swing. 75 00:05:51.423 --> 00:05:52.724 They might change coaches. 76 00:05:52.744 --> 00:05:54.705 They might change caddies. 77 00:05:55.145 --> 00:06:01.588 But then, you know, they're still struggling with building confidence, and that's where someone like myself comes in. 78 00:06:01.648 --> 00:06:03.749 So we put programs in place. 79 00:06:05.094 --> 00:06:08.062 that get them to practice a bit more efficiently probably. 80 00:06:08.082 --> 00:06:10.429 You know, I'm just talking generally. 81 00:06:10.549 --> 00:06:12.234 But, you know, in order to – 82 00:06:13.778 --> 00:06:23.462 You can't guarantee an increase in confidence, but you can significantly roll the dice in your favour for improving confidence by setting challenges and stuff in practice. 83 00:06:23.482 --> 00:06:30.606 And then just general counselling as well, trying to get them to recall when they were playing the best and what kind of things they were doing. 84 00:06:32.026 --> 00:06:33.587 So that kind of stuff. 85 00:06:33.707 --> 00:06:37.749 And then once you've got started the confidence cycle, 86 00:06:38.793 --> 00:06:45.375 Then you've got to start looking at how they deal with pressure, you know, at the other end of the leaderboard. 87 00:06:45.855 --> 00:06:49.216 And so it kind of goes through little phases like that, really. 88 00:06:49.996 --> 00:06:50.856 What's your preference? 89 00:06:50.896 --> 00:06:54.277 Is it to have someone playing well or is it to have someone playing poorly? 90 00:06:54.697 --> 00:06:58.598 And then is pressure at the top of the leaderboard the same as pressure of trying to make the cut? 91 00:06:59.838 --> 00:07:06.799 It's very similar, to be honest, because it's a human thing rather than a golfer thing. 92 00:07:06.819 --> 00:07:17.782 So the perceived threat response or anxiety or whatever, they happen at both ends of the scale, but just for different reasons. 93 00:07:18.162 --> 00:07:20.502 But they're just threats. 94 00:07:20.662 --> 00:07:27.764 So helping a player recognize the threat, be aware of the threat, know that the threat is there and try not to... 95 00:07:28.624 --> 00:07:32.987 One of the key things is people try and get rid of the threat. 96 00:07:33.027 --> 00:07:39.851 They might start to wish that threat away or wish the emotions away or the thoughts. 97 00:07:40.751 --> 00:07:42.372 It's the worst thing that you can do. 98 00:07:43.413 --> 00:07:47.295 Well, I have those threats with my wife and kids and dog. 99 00:07:47.615 --> 00:07:52.178 So is it the same advice for them as it is for the golf course? 100 00:07:52.258 --> 00:07:57.020 No, you better off just go to the golf course when all that's going on. 101 00:07:57.040 --> 00:07:57.961 You can take the dog. 102 00:07:58.832 --> 00:07:59.695 Yeah. 103 00:07:59.715 --> 00:08:02.545 Josh, he steals all the balls, the little shit, I tell you. 104 00:08:05.335 --> 00:08:10.416 So, Lee, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this. 105 00:08:10.796 --> 00:08:13.957 You're obviously working with some incredibly elite players. 106 00:08:14.597 --> 00:08:20.219 And there's going to be people listening to this podcast now who have the same issues but on a different level. 107 00:08:20.259 --> 00:08:24.360 They might be on the 15th hole on for their best ever score. 108 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:28.241 And they feel the pressure that Paul Waring would have done according to what he's gone Sunday. 109 00:08:28.761 --> 00:08:31.702 So what you do with someone like Paul Waring... 110 00:08:32.605 --> 00:08:34.686 and the tactics and the skills that you develop with him. 111 00:08:34.706 --> 00:08:38.589 Is that pretty much the same as with an average golfer or is it a slightly different model that you use? 112 00:08:39.830 --> 00:08:40.851 It's exactly the same. 113 00:08:41.671 --> 00:08:47.195 The, the model I've created, um, over time and you know, I, 114 00:08:48.926 --> 00:08:51.028 is a human model. 115 00:08:51.628 --> 00:08:54.190 It's for humans, not just golfers. 116 00:08:54.230 --> 00:08:57.353 So you can use it if you're in motorsport. 117 00:08:57.393 --> 00:09:00.255 You can use it if you're trying to pass exams. 118 00:09:00.275 --> 00:09:10.342 You can do it whether you're an amateur, trying to get your handicap down from 20 down to 18, or whether you're
trying to win a Rolex event or play in a Ryder Cup. 119 00:09:10.903 --> 00:09:12.224 They're exactly the same things. 120 00:09:12.764 --> 00:09:21.996 There might be some little kind of slight changes with the goals that you would set, but they run through a consistent theme for sure. 121 00:09:22.416 --> 00:09:29.665 One of the questions I was going to ask you is, have you ever had any either tour player or just general player who you've worked with for their golf? 122 00:09:30.546 --> 00:09:54.591 who've come to you six months down the line and said you know what that's really helped me with my work environment or my social side of things or do you find that it can sort of bleed into other areas of someone's life and actually improve other aspects absolutely and you know i openly encourage that and from the start i will explain to them that not only will this help your performance um 123 00:09:55.286 --> 00:09:59.070 but it will also help you in your general life as well. 124 00:09:59.310 --> 00:10:08.278 You know, I've worked with kids over the years who might have some exams coming up, and we talk about it. 125 00:10:08.378 --> 00:10:15.325 We talk about doing the same structure, getting organized, organizing your time, you know, 126 00:10:16.572 --> 00:10:20.475 knowing that the threat comes from often lack of preparation. 127 00:10:20.855 --> 00:10:28.501 So absolutely, and in the work environment, off the back of working with some golfers, I've worked in some businesses historically. 128 00:10:28.521 --> 00:10:43.193 I mean, I don't usually have time for it at the moment, but I ended up working in quite a few recruitment consultancy companies quite a few years ago, which I've thoroughly enjoyed because it's all the same stuff. 129 00:10:43.293 --> 00:10:44.494 It's human performance. 130 00:10:47.092 --> 00:10:53.454 Just thinking about that, actually, and just rewinding it a little bit back to some of the guys that you start working with in the beginning. 131 00:10:53.974 --> 00:10:55.695 Now, obviously, they come and see you. 132 00:10:55.755 --> 00:11:04.777 They need that confidence sort of shot in the arm, should we call it, and all the strategies to help them cope in different situations on a golf course, whatever their situation might be. 133 00:11:05.298 --> 00:11:09.939 But they're also then going to see their golf coach, potentially making a change to their golf swing. 134 00:11:10.319 --> 00:11:20.126 Maybe there's some more tactics and strategies that are taking place and their fitness trainer and their physio, they're doing some work on the body to try and help them get into different positions, whatever it might be. 135 00:11:20.747 --> 00:11:28.833 There's a whole range of contributing factors that can help improve or not improve as the case may be performance. 136 00:11:29.772 --> 00:11:33.194 So I'm quite keen to figure out how do you measure this? 137 00:11:33.795 --> 00:11:38.257 You can measure it in terms of how many
birdies and what your score is and how much money you make at the end of the year, and I get all that. 138 00:11:38.598 --> 00:11:44.401 But how are you able to demonstrate to somebody, hey, yeah, your confidence has gone from this to this? 139 00:11:45.202 --> 00:11:53.067 Or is this more honest reflection type thinking that the individual, in this case the golfer, would have to go through? 140 00:11:53.876 --> 00:11:57.137 If your bank balance goes up, I'm sure it's a fantastic barometer, Daryl. 141 00:11:57.757 --> 00:12:03.820 No shit, but that's what I'm trying to ascertain, is where do you position that, right? 142 00:12:03.900 --> 00:12:07.061 You can easily work out how many families you get. 143 00:12:07.721 --> 00:12:10.862 It depends how many times the investment section of the bank call you. 144 00:12:11.002 --> 00:12:13.683 If they call you three times a year, then you're doing really good. 145 00:12:14.944 --> 00:12:16.404 Well, nobody's calling you, Trotty. 146 00:12:16.424 --> 00:12:20.125 That's all you need to know right now, yeah? 147 00:12:20.185 --> 00:12:21.286 Why do you think I called Lee? 148 00:12:23.959 --> 00:12:28.641 I imagine Lee's on a commission of your on-course earnings. 149 00:12:28.661 --> 00:12:31.783 And we both know that's pretty dog shit at the moment with your golf game, right? 150 00:12:35.385 --> 00:12:38.647 Listen, people in glass houses can't be saying bugger all. 151 00:12:38.667 --> 00:12:40.007 I know where I sit, mate. 152 00:12:40.127 --> 00:12:40.868 I know what I do. 153 00:12:40.888 --> 00:12:44.370 Anyway, anyway, Lee, back over to you. 154 00:12:44.390 --> 00:12:44.610 Yeah. 155 00:12:45.930 --> 00:12:46.811 Yeah. 156 00:12:46.891 --> 00:12:49.312 No, honestly, it's a great question. 157 00:12:49.432 --> 00:12:50.133 It's, um, um, 158 00:12:51.323 --> 00:12:55.368 Because, like, the psychology, I call it an invisible skill. 159 00:12:55.508 --> 00:12:57.851 You know, it's an invisible process. 160 00:12:58.732 --> 00:13:04.839 You know, it's not like, you know, a golf swing where you can put it on a camera, you can put some lines on and you can see the change, or you go into the gym. 161 00:13:04.899 --> 00:13:09.624 And as you can see, you know, I'm massively into going to the gym. 162 00:13:09.804 --> 00:13:10.605 And so, you know... 163 00:13:11.426 --> 00:13:12.887 It's not the case. 164 00:13:13.508 --> 00:13:16.290 But, you know, you can tell if you do it. 165 00:13:16.330 --> 00:13:17.711 Lee, it's a podcast, mate. 166 00:13:17.731 --> 00:13:18.472 They can't see you. 167 00:13:18.752 --> 00:13:20.473 You could look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. 168 00:13:20.493 --> 00:13:22.075 You're there six days a week, pal. 169 00:13:22.175 --> 00:13:22.655 Ripped. 170 00:13:22.675 --> 00:13:28.300 Lee, I'm just top of the grip. 171 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:29.060 Well, I am, yeah. 172 00:13:29.961 --> 00:13:31.302 My body's a temple. 173 00:13:31.542 --> 00:13:32.223 Temple of doom. 174 00:13:33.831 --> 00:13:41.033 But with the gym stuff, you can objectively measure those improvements because you can lift more, blah, blah, blah. 175 00:13:41.293 --> 00:13:50.496 But what I do have is I have self-reflection feedback forms that I've created over the years for tour players. 176 00:13:50.556 --> 00:13:53.217 There's two that I use primarily. 177 00:13:53.677 --> 00:13:55.958 One's a mastery versus ego feedback form. 178 00:13:56.918 --> 00:14:04.126 So you've got the mastery side of the game, which is appreciating the nuances of the game, and it's more process-based. 179 00:14:04.946 --> 00:14:12.554 But then the opposite end of the scale is the ego side, which would be more outcome-based, and it's like what we call a Likert scale. 180 00:14:12.935 --> 00:14:14.196 So it's zero to 10. 181 00:14:14.216 --> 00:14:17.900 So you can have opposite kind of... 182 00:14:19.619 --> 00:14:20.679 Opposite statement. 183 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:23.861 So it might be I was very process-focused. 184 00:14:23.881 --> 00:14:24.921 I was very score-focused. 185 00:14:24.941 --> 00:14:27.442 So rate yourself from 0 to 10. 186 00:14:27.582 --> 00:14:29.903 That one's about 22 items. 187 00:14:30.443 --> 00:14:33.104 And then I've got another one, which is the 12... 188 00:14:35.898 --> 00:14:38.820 mental, you know, primary mental skills or something like that. 189 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:39.621 I forget what I call it. 190 00:14:40.181 --> 00:14:58.253 And the players rate themselves with, like, confidence, mental pre-shot routines, how they talk to themselves, how their levels of acceptance of what the golf ball does and also their acceptance of how they are feeling and thinking. 191 00:14:59.114 --> 00:15:02.957 So, you know, when they fill those in, it gives us – 192 00:15:03.757 --> 00:15:07.280 their perceived value for those. 193 00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:16.346 And that's, you know, there's no real measure, you know, that you would want to do for confidence and all these skills. 194 00:15:16.366 --> 00:15:18.547 But we have a go with them. 195 00:15:18.647 --> 00:15:26.433 So just by creating, by getting the player to feed back to themselves on a regular basis, we create a learning cycle. 196 00:15:26.953 --> 00:15:28.014 And, you know, I don't... 197 00:15:29.995 --> 00:15:33.498 My thing is I don't like telling players what to do. 198 00:15:33.698 --> 00:15:41.005 I'll ask them questions and draw out kind of the answers that they want and what they can run with. 199 00:15:41.285 --> 00:15:49.472 We find that adherence to any kind of program works a lot better that way, specifically with the mental game. 200 00:15:50.453 --> 00:15:55.137 How long do you usually work with someone and what's your longest serving client? 201 00:15:56.482 --> 00:16:02.047 Yeah, he stuck with me. 202 00:16:02.787 --> 00:16:06.971 Worst client ever. 203 00:16:07.031 --> 00:16:11.334 I've worked with Paul Waring for probably over 10 years. 204 00:16:12.195 -->
00:16:20.362 I've just started back with Andy Sullivan again, who we've worked on and off for probably similar. 205 00:16:20.942 --> 00:16:22.504 I've worked with Kiridek for... 206 00:16:23.647 --> 00:16:26.568 probably about seven years, eight years. 207 00:16:26.648 --> 00:16:28.469 I kind of lose track. 208 00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:32.891 Matt Baldwin, worked with him since he was a teenager, you know. 209 00:16:33.751 --> 00:16:37.632 So a lot of the guys have such a long time. 210 00:16:38.313 --> 00:16:52.438 You know, with a golf swing, you can have like an imprint, and Bubsy can maybe talk on this a bit more, but you have things that you do as a golfer as you become better and better, and they're like your thumbnail. 211 00:16:52.993 --> 00:16:55.696 thumbnail, they're like your fingerprint of your golf swing. 212 00:16:55.836 --> 00:16:56.356 You know what I mean? 213 00:16:56.376 --> 00:16:57.537 Your thumbnail is pretty good enough. 214 00:16:58.078 --> 00:17:01.361 But in this day and age, Bubsy, of social media, your thumbnail is good enough. 215 00:17:01.761 --> 00:17:03.483 They're your DNA as to what you do. 216 00:17:04.184 --> 00:17:04.384 So, 217 00:17:05.797 --> 00:17:13.447 With the mental game, is it the same thing that people can often trip up over the same things on given weeks? 218 00:17:13.467 --> 00:17:14.629 Is that a pattern that you see? 219 00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:15.871 Absolutely. 220 00:17:15.891 --> 00:17:22.920 And that's why I travel so much, because what we're doing is we're taking some bad habits. 221 00:17:24.201 --> 00:17:26.543 and trying to evolve them into better habits. 222 00:17:27.704 --> 00:17:38.991 So over time, you need to keep on top of them because the golfer's DNA will want to revert back to the old patterns and old habits. 223 00:17:39.471 --> 00:17:42.914 So that's why I travel so much, is because I want to keep on them. 224 00:17:43.734 --> 00:17:47.637 But some of these old habits have got these players to where they are, though. 225 00:17:47.717 --> 00:17:52.420 Like, for example, I have an arsehole counter. 226 00:17:52.747 --> 00:17:56.130 for when I play, how many times I call myself an arsehole, and it's a lot. 227 00:17:56.591 --> 00:18:04.239 And if that arsehole, yeah, if that counter goes below a certain number, then I drop off peak performance the other way. 228 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.383 Like, it needs to be a healthy amount, each 18 holes. 229 00:18:08.984 --> 00:18:09.224 So, 230 00:18:10.161 --> 00:18:17.708 Do you know, is there is there sometimes some negativity that's a good thing as well in order to get you into a state where you need to be to perform? 231 00:18:18.169 --> 00:18:21.031 Well, just before you answer that, Lee, that kind of leads into my question. 232 00:18:21.192 --> 00:18:23.374 So you can answer mine and try to at the same time, if that's all right. 233 00:18:25.552 --> 00:18:28.073 Tyrell was in the news a fair bit last week because of his antics. 234 00:18:28.113 --> 00:18:28.673 He broke a club. 235 00:18:28.713 --> 00:18:29.413 He said some things. 236 00:18:29.853 --> 00:18:39.915 So to Trotty's point, if you took Tyrell's level of frustration and took it to zero, would he struggle then to perform at the same level, which I guess is what kind of Trotty was saying. 237 00:18:39.955 --> 00:18:43.016 Is it trying to find that happy balance or happy medium for everybody? 238 00:18:44.736 --> 00:18:44.916 Yeah. 239 00:18:45.376 --> 00:18:45.616 Yeah. 240 00:18:45.976 --> 00:18:46.996 Yeah. 241 00:18:48.597 --> 00:18:50.617 You know, again, you're working with the person. 242 00:18:50.717 --> 00:18:51.957 You're not working with the golfer. 243 00:18:52.237 --> 00:18:54.978 Now, you know, someone like Tyrell, 244 00:18:55.958 --> 00:18:58.840 You know, he loses his shit, you know, left, right and centre. 245 00:18:58.900 --> 00:18:59.720 He's okay with that. 246 00:19:00.141 --> 00:19:02.482 You know, sometimes he takes it over the top. 247 00:19:02.842 --> 00:19:03.083 Yeah. 248 00:19:03.243 --> 00:19:04.784 And he would probably admit to that. 249 00:19:05.284 --> 00:19:07.105 But he's world-class at refocusing. 250 00:19:07.365 --> 00:19:11.448 That he's so good at just, you know, it's cathartic for him. 251 00:19:11.528 --> 00:19:13.269 You know, he needs to get it out. 252 00:19:13.389 --> 00:19:17.232 John McEnroe was the same in tennis, for those of you who are of a certain age. 253 00:19:17.672 --> 00:19:18.593 But, you know... 254 00:19:19.833 --> 00:19:24.395 We see people in different sports all the time who need to get it out. 255 00:19:24.415 --> 00:19:27.097 And then they become the characters. 256 00:19:27.157 --> 00:19:31.399 But historically, in sport, there was a load of those kind of guys. 257 00:19:31.419 --> 00:19:32.559 Look at Michael Jordan. 258 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:33.500 Do you think he would have been... 259 00:19:34.405 --> 00:19:43.428 as good if he wasn't going around telling everyone at the Chicago Bulls to pull the socks up and get stuck in. 260 00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:52.092 There has to be that level of arousal where a player can perform at their peak. 261 00:19:52.132 --> 00:19:54.272 Now, it's different for everyone. 262 00:19:54.352 --> 00:19:55.333 It's different for everyone. 263 00:19:55.653 --> 00:19:57.514 You wouldn't... 264 00:19:57.754 --> 00:20:00.455 If Matt Wallace was going around like... 265 00:20:02.235 --> 00:20:02.595 I don't know. 266 00:20:04.800 --> 00:20:05.981 name a really calm goal. 267 00:20:06.001 --> 00:20:09.383 Someone, you know, Freddie couples, someone like Freddie couples. 268 00:20:09.403 --> 00:20:09.583 Yeah. 269 00:20:10.024 --> 00:20:13.947 You know, would it, would he, would he play, you know, to the level that he is doing? 270 00:20:14.047 --> 00:20:18.730 No, no, he wouldn't because he needs to be amped up to a certain level. 271 00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:22.853 Obviously, and like anyone who's like that, it can spill
over, you know, 272 00:20:23.975 --> 00:20:27.856 The skill is getting it back and being able to focus on that next shot. 273 00:20:28.357 --> 00:20:36.580 So it depends on the person's personality, you know, and where they live within that kind of boundary, you know. 274 00:20:36.620 --> 00:20:39.801 And how it's a broader boundary than people think. 275 00:20:40.361 --> 00:20:43.362 I assume it's a, yeah, that sounds really interesting. 276 00:20:43.402 --> 00:20:47.423 So I assume when you're thinking about it that way, it's like there's a tipping point sort of both ways. 277 00:20:47.443 --> 00:20:54.285 So you can either be too relaxed and underperform or over aroused using your word to underperform as well. 278 00:20:54.785 --> 00:21:02.707 Like that window might be quite narrow, but I assume, and correct me if I'm wrong here, it's probably a lot easier from your standpoint to work with someone who's more likely to, 279 00:21:03.107 --> 00:21:25.005 sort of tip over the edge so that therefore you can pull them back into that frame of mind as opposed to try and push them forward into that more aroused mindset i'm just curious to how that works because sometimes i go and play golf and you know sometimes i'm right up for it and it's great and then other times i just can't get myself motivated to make another freaking bogey to be honest but uh 280 00:21:25.585 --> 00:21:30.027 How do people operate in terms of that environment? 281 00:21:30.907 --> 00:21:32.048 Oh, Corey's always hands up again. 282 00:21:32.108 --> 00:21:32.868 Let's say that for him. 283 00:21:32.968 --> 00:21:37.150 If a 130 ball speed is arousing, then frick, I mean, good for you. 284 00:21:38.231 --> 00:21:38.611 Show off. 285 00:21:39.271 --> 00:21:41.612 It's actually 135, I'll have you know. 286 00:21:41.632 --> 00:21:47.034 Stop showing off. 287 00:21:47.055 --> 00:21:48.215 A good example of that. 288 00:21:48.275 --> 00:21:49.235 Well, a couple of examples. 289 00:21:51.028 --> 00:22:01.034 If you've ever walked a practice round at a tour event with a player, and I'm sure most of us here have, players get bored in practice rounds. 290 00:22:01.634 --> 00:22:08.198 They get bored and they start hitting loose shots, or it might be late on in a pro-am or something like that. 291 00:22:08.258 --> 00:22:13.741 So that shows that they're under-aroused, if you like, before Trotty starts coming up with some smut. 292 00:22:16.001 --> 00:22:35.648 But then, you know, a couple of years ago when Matt Wallace was in the playoff at Cron against Thriston Lawrence, he said, you know, I was working with him then, but he actually said in an interview, so I can say it, you know, he went into that playoff really flat. 293 00:22:36.792 --> 00:22:38.854 And obviously got beat. 294 00:22:39.274 --> 00:22:44.679 And then when he was in the playoff a few months ago, he was like man-possessed. 295 00:22:45.019 --> 00:22:48.001 He was just like, this is happening. 296 00:22:48.842 --> 00:22:53.906 His manager, Greza, said, right, get focused now. 297 00:22:54.086 --> 00:22:55.367 Get focused for this playoff. 298 00:22:55.507 --> 00:23:01.833 And he was just like the Matt Wallace that we know, just tunnel vision right into it. 299 00:23:01.953 --> 00:23:04.815 And then he obviously birdied that first playoff hold to win. 300 00:23:07.537 --> 00:23:19.122 Yeah, these guys are competitors, Dazzler, so they don't really often need bringing up because they want to compete. 301 00:23:19.142 --> 00:23:23.844 You might see it after, if they've got three holes left and they're way off the cut, then they'll go flat. 302 00:23:24.264 --> 00:23:29.827 But they'll generally be right on it, and that's why they're playing on the tours, the best tours in the world. 303 00:23:30.327 --> 00:23:33.068 Now, the ones who overcook it, 304 00:23:33.648 --> 00:23:35.951 and go past that tipping point. 305 00:23:36.311 --> 00:23:42.257 Yeah, there's different things that we can do to help bring them back. 306 00:23:42.317 --> 00:23:57.111 But often the reason why a player will go over the tipping point is because they start trying to push away the frustration, the anger, the emotion, and then they start thinking about the emotion 307 00:23:58.032 --> 00:24:04.877 over and over again, and they end up in this loop where they're just thinking about the emotion, and they forget to hit the bloody shot that's in front of them. 308 00:24:05.778 --> 00:24:06.478 Yeah, I do that. 309 00:24:06.498 --> 00:24:07.139 That's the key. 310 00:24:07.919 --> 00:24:19.228 That's the absolute key for myself of helping someone to increase their ability to deal with the stress and pressure of performing. 311 00:24:19.348 --> 00:24:24.912 And it's exactly the same if you're a 20 handicapper playing in a monthly medal on a good score. 312 00:24:25.052 --> 00:24:26.093 It's exactly the same. 313 00:24:27.082 --> 00:24:28.363 With a 130 ball speed. 314 00:24:28.983 --> 00:24:30.364 Yeah. 315 00:24:30.844 --> 00:24:33.926 I had a question, but now I'm going to ask a few questions here. 316 00:24:34.026 --> 00:24:35.867 So first off, I can very much relate. 317 00:24:35.887 --> 00:24:36.927 Just do them one at a time, Trotty. 318 00:24:36.987 --> 00:24:38.548 I'm not very clever. 319 00:24:38.928 --> 00:24:40.269 First off, I can relate to that. 320 00:24:40.509 --> 00:24:44.291 So for me, I'm an open book. 321 00:24:44.331 --> 00:24:45.091 I'm going to say it. 322 00:24:45.191 --> 00:24:45.792 I don't care. 323 00:24:45.812 --> 00:24:46.672 I'm going to talk about it. 324 00:24:46.772 --> 00:24:47.513 It is what it is. 325 00:24:47.573 --> 00:24:50.414 I feel like if I can get through it, openly is fine. 326 00:24:50.434 --> 00:24:52.335 And I'll tell you everything that I'm thinking. 327 00:24:53.222 --> 00:24:57.285 You mentioned Matt Wallace said something in an interview, so you could then say it. 328 00:24:57.365 --> 00:25:06.911 So there's obviously been conversations
that you've had over two or three decades now, two and a half decades you've been doing this, which is fantastic as a coach. 329 00:25:06.991 --> 00:25:08.332 So that's the second part of this question. 330 00:25:08.352 --> 00:25:09.012 We're going to get to that. 331 00:25:09.954 --> 00:25:12.575 that these players have opened up and said things to you. 332 00:25:12.975 --> 00:25:19.678 Now, as a coach, that's an amazing skill to be able to get that out of the best players in the world. 333 00:25:19.698 --> 00:25:24.480 Because when I'm dealing with some of these guys for equipment, the feedback is, 334 00:25:25.111 --> 00:25:25.571 is poor. 335 00:25:25.932 --> 00:25:30.115 How they verbalize what they're seeing and feeling is poor. 336 00:25:30.636 --> 00:25:42.686 So obviously with a launch monitor and with the tech that's around you, which makes it only fitting that today, just again to remind everyone who can see this on YouTube, KBS, player-driven, tour proven, that's where we're at today. 337 00:25:42.946 --> 00:25:44.687 Shout out to my good friends at KBS. 338 00:25:45.148 --> 00:25:49.751 But just to say, Lee, for the point that they're poor communicators some of these. 339 00:25:50.292 --> 00:25:52.333 You've been doing this for three decades. 340 00:25:52.954 --> 00:25:54.115 How have you had 341 00:25:54.532 --> 00:26:03.716 people talk about some of their inner emotions, fears, strengths, weaknesses to get them to then win. 342 00:26:04.057 --> 00:26:15.222 I mean, what skill can we take as coaches or as business owners and leaders, as our bald friend in the top right corner as I look at the screen, what can we take that can help us day to day? 343 00:26:17.017 --> 00:26:26.322 It's about knowing how to ask the right questions, you know, and obviously in my role, because I'm bound by ethics, I, you know, I can't divulge information. 344 00:26:26.362 --> 00:26:27.963 So there's an element of trust there. 345 00:26:28.743 --> 00:26:33.546 And, you know, I'm all, you know, the guys always say that I'm very personable. 346 00:26:34.026 --> 00:26:36.667 You know, I've been around the game for a long time. 347 00:26:37.248 --> 00:26:39.869 You know, sports psychology is a passion. 348 00:26:40.589 --> 00:26:40.770 Um... 349 00:26:42.009 --> 00:26:44.650 I went to university knowing what I was going to do. 350 00:26:45.350 --> 00:26:50.472 And that's quite rare for people who go to university knowing exactly what they want to do. 351 00:26:50.532 --> 00:26:53.733 So the passion is there. 352 00:26:53.793 --> 00:26:55.513 That feeds through into the player. 353 00:26:56.214 --> 00:26:59.035 They're paying me in order to help them. 354 00:26:59.355 --> 00:27:03.696 And I explain to them, all I want, first of all, is honesty and work. 355 00:27:04.096 --> 00:27:04.776 That's it. 356 00:27:05.056 --> 00:27:09.798 And what they will get from me is trust, confidentiality, and trust. 357 00:27:10.358 --> 00:27:23.268 bloody hard work, you know,
and if there's issues that we struggle to kind of figure out, I'll go out and I'll research and I'll find a way to deal with it, you know, and that's just, you know, we're always learning. 358 00:27:23.468 --> 00:27:35.017 I don't claim to know everything about performance psychology, but if something comes up, I'll go, I'll bloody go and read up on it, find out, you know, just to improve. 359 00:27:35.037 --> 00:27:38.880 And so we're all improving together, you know, that that's. 360 00:27:39.801 --> 00:27:47.170 basically how I would answer that, I ask good questions of them, and I draw the information out of them. 361 00:27:47.530 --> 00:27:57.602 There's no point in – I have worked with a couple of players who I found it really hard to communicate with, and it just doesn't last very long because we're wasting each other's time. 362 00:27:59.103 --> 00:28:04.945 And they shall remain nameless before you ask Trotty. 363 00:28:05.426 --> 00:28:10.107 I think that comes, I mean, I'm a coach as well, obviously a different sort of coach to yourself. 364 00:28:10.147 --> 00:28:13.028 But I think that comes with a bit of maturity as a coach, isn't it? 365 00:28:13.048 --> 00:28:16.470 You know, you don't expect to have great relationships with every player. 366 00:28:16.550 --> 00:28:19.611 You know, it's a maturity to say, do you know what, maybe we're not a great fit. 367 00:28:20.832 --> 00:28:37.111 I want to just, if I can, bring it back to, again, the listener and the person who's listening to this podcast, recreational golfer, loves their golf, wants to perform better, probably gets nervous when there's a crowd of more than three people in the first tee, gets really nervous when they're on for a good score. 368 00:28:37.752 --> 00:28:41.597 I appreciate that the stuff you do is not a quick fix. 369 00:28:41.637 --> 00:28:42.438 It takes time. 370 00:28:42.959 --> 00:28:54.093 But for that golfer who's going to go and play golf this weekend, are there any actionable things that you can give them that might just start them on that journey to being a little bit more mentally strong? 371 00:28:54.293 --> 00:28:55.314 I know you've got a website. 372 00:28:56.115 --> 00:28:59.096 winning golf mind, you do online training. 373 00:28:59.416 --> 00:29:00.336 That can obviously help them. 374 00:29:00.516 --> 00:29:08.178 Talk a little bit about that business, but then how can the average golfer at the weekend implement some stuff that will help them earn 1.5 million like Paul Waring? 375 00:29:09.958 --> 00:29:13.819 Yeah, I mean... Just the 1.5, Lee. 376 00:29:14.259 --> 00:29:15.780 Just the 1.5. 377 00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:16.600 Yeah, I know. 378 00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:19.621 Not bad, was it? 379 00:29:19.641 --> 00:29:24.022 That's what we want the general follower of Bubsy, Chris Ryan Golf, to be earning right here. 380 00:29:24.042 --> 00:29:24.662 So come on, Lee. 381 00:29:24.882 --> 00:29:25.602 Give us the gems. 382 00:29:26.552 --> 00:29:28.654 Well, they need to go to winninggolfmine.com. 383 00:29:28.914 --> 00:29:37.263 The website, my online academy thing, is basically directed at club players, amateurs, enthusiastic amateurs. 384 00:29:37.403 --> 00:29:37.943 But the first thing... 385 00:29:48.210 --> 00:29:53.435 You know, you talk about first-tea nerves, players getting nervous in front of more than three players. 386 00:29:53.855 --> 00:29:55.136 That is normal. 387 00:29:55.877 --> 00:29:59.340 We need to normalise nerves and pressure and anxiety. 388 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:03.343 It's a human emotion, and this is the big point. 389 00:30:03.844 --> 00:30:05.345 Never try and shove it away. 390 00:30:05.545 --> 00:30:07.607 Never try and push it away because... 391 00:30:10.890 --> 00:30:15.817 as soon as we start to push it away, then we start focusing more and more on that emotion. 392 00:30:15.837 --> 00:30:18.040 And that's the worst thing that you can do. 393 00:30:18.421 --> 00:30:20.063 Accept it, sit with it. 394 00:30:20.464 --> 00:30:23.508 You know, if you're nervous on the first tee, it's okay. 395 00:30:24.129 --> 00:30:25.371 Every single golfer, 396 00:30:26.212 --> 00:30:32.873 that I know whenever I ask them this question, have you ever been shitting yourself and still hit a great shot, you know, for your level? 397 00:30:32.974 --> 00:30:33.954 And they all say yes. 398 00:30:34.154 --> 00:30:35.094 I'm like, well, there you go. 399 00:30:36.174 --> 00:30:37.354 That is the proof. 400 00:30:38.035 --> 00:30:41.035 That is the proof that you can still hit a goal shot. 401 00:30:41.775 --> 00:30:46.456 Anxiety, although it might feel uncomfortable, it's not negative. 402 00:30:46.536 --> 00:30:47.437 All anxiety is, is... 403 00:30:50.134 --> 00:30:53.035 From a physiological point of view, it's adrenaline, right? 404 00:30:53.055 --> 00:30:53.915 We need adrenaline. 405 00:30:53.935 --> 00:30:55.495 It's part of the fight and flight response. 406 00:30:55.535 --> 00:31:02.397 It's part of the ancient part of the brain that gets us ready to go and fight something or run away from it. 407 00:31:02.417 --> 00:31:03.457 It's a safety mechanism. 408 00:31:03.877 --> 00:31:05.398 So it's our friend. 409 00:31:05.898 --> 00:31:11.859 And if we then experience that on the golf course, then it's doing it for a reason. 410 00:31:12.379 --> 00:31:13.880 You know, it's getting you... 411 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:16.564 either ready to fight and compete. 412 00:31:17.145 --> 00:31:21.374 This depends on how you perceive things or it's getting you to run away. 413 00:31:21.454 --> 00:31:21.634 Now, 414 00:31:22.997 --> 00:31:28.581 The third one is actually the freeze response, which is a spin between fight and flight. 415 00:31:29.181 --> 00:31:36.225 So when we get in there, we often see that one on the first tee when players freeze, especially higher handicappers. 416 00:31:36.706 --> 00:31:41.028 But these things are normal, have to keep banging on about
that. 417 00:31:41.929 --> 00:31:44.471 But what you then have to do is just accept that that's there 418 00:31:45.346 --> 00:31:49.308 and then get back present and focus fully on the shot. 419 00:31:49.548 --> 00:32:00.894 Because the three main things that we can work around, and this is a really simplified version, is every player wants to get into what we call a flow state. 420 00:32:01.814 --> 00:32:06.557 So we've all experienced it where the game of golf is really easy. 421 00:32:06.577 --> 00:32:13.540 It might have been for maybe just two holes in Trotty's case, but the rest of us, we've probably experienced it for 18 holes. 422 00:32:14.681 --> 00:32:29.608 And what the three main triggers for this flow state in golfers or, you know, it could be a mechanic in Paris, you know, just any kind of job because it's a human thing. 423 00:32:30.428 --> 00:32:34.071 Number one, it's focus, total immersion in the task at hand. 424 00:32:34.612 --> 00:32:40.136 Being present is number two, just being focused on the here and now. 425 00:32:40.296 --> 00:32:48.463 And number three is having what we call a towards or pursuit mindset, as opposed to the opposite, which is the avoidance mindset. 426 00:32:48.523 --> 00:32:55.348 So the towards mindset is where we focus on the shot that we want to hit, as opposed to the shot that we don't want to hit. 427 00:32:55.368 --> 00:32:55.789 Okay. 428 00:32:56.149 --> 00:33:04.257 Now, when I played college golf in America, that third one, and I'm going back many years to the early 90s, that third one is what I really struggled with. 429 00:33:04.597 --> 00:33:11.063 I went from playing 6,000-yard Haydok Park Golf Club in Merseyside with a 430 00:33:11.363 --> 00:33:18.167 hardly any water on it, to playing these golf courses that were 7,300 yards with water everywhere. 431 00:33:18.288 --> 00:33:21.390 And I was world-class at going, do not hit it in the piss. 432 00:33:21.970 --> 00:33:25.252 Do not hit it in them trees over on that left-hand side. 433 00:33:25.272 --> 00:33:29.815 And I couldn't figure out because this sports psychology thing wasn't really around then. 434 00:33:30.415 --> 00:33:34.038 So I knew something was wrong, but I didn't know what it was. 435 00:33:35.199 --> 00:33:38.263 I wanted to see a sports psychologist who was working on the basketball team. 436 00:33:38.824 --> 00:33:49.138 That never happened, so I packed that in and came back home to Liverpool to study sports psychology and sports science and applied psychology. 437 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:49.999 So... 438 00:33:51.129 --> 00:33:53.030 Getting back to those three, focus. 439 00:33:53.210 --> 00:33:54.490 These are your flow triggers. 440 00:33:54.530 --> 00:33:59.512 If you can nail these three, then you're more likely to get into flow, no matter who you are or what level. 441 00:33:59.852 --> 00:34:06.395 It's focus on the shot, presence, and that towards or pursuit mindset. 442 00:34:06.535 --> 00:34:09.696 And focusing on the shot is – it could be – 443 00:34:11.357 --> 00:34:13.880 dialing into your start line. 444 00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:15.461 It could be dialing into your target. 445 00:34:15.481 --> 00:34:18.083 It could be dialing into a feel in your golf swing. 446 00:34:18.464 --> 00:34:23.328 Everyone's different, and those things change and develop over time as well. 447 00:34:23.729 --> 00:34:24.770 Presence is presence. 448 00:34:25.050 --> 00:34:26.711 You know, our brain is... 449 00:34:28.533 --> 00:34:29.634 a thinking machine. 450 00:34:29.954 --> 00:34:31.255 So we're going to get out the present. 451 00:34:31.296 --> 00:34:35.379 So I always put it as, do we know how to get back into the present? 452 00:34:35.900 --> 00:34:44.247 And one of the easiest things you can do there is either focus on your breathing or ask yourself the question, what do I want to do now? 453 00:34:45.308 --> 00:34:47.670 You know, that will bring you back into the present. 454 00:34:48.136 --> 00:34:50.657 I remember working with a coach many years ago on the golf course. 455 00:34:50.677 --> 00:34:53.199 This was back way in the day, younger days. 456 00:34:53.539 --> 00:34:58.042 I were on the course and I said, I feel like I'm going to hit it in the crap on the right. 457 00:34:58.722 --> 00:35:00.663 And he said to me, he said, you've got to be more positive. 458 00:35:01.164 --> 00:35:03.725 I said, I'm definitely going to hit it in the crap on the right. 459 00:35:03.805 --> 00:35:08.308 Is that not... 460 00:35:12.350 --> 00:35:15.132 I felt like that was when I needed to hang up the clubs and start coaching. 461 00:35:16.092 --> 00:35:16.873 Yeah. 462 00:35:18.283 --> 00:35:19.965 It's powerful, the avoidance thing. 463 00:35:20.366 --> 00:35:25.172 But recognising that, you know, first of all, you've got to be aware that that thought is in there. 464 00:35:25.893 --> 00:35:29.257 And then you've got to kind of, you know what, the best thing to do is just almost laugh at it. 465 00:35:29.598 --> 00:35:30.859 Because it's only your emotion. 466 00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:32.281 It's your emotion centre. 467 00:35:33.242 --> 00:35:53.453 trying to protect you it's saying don't hit it into the crap down the right hand side or don't hit it in the water down the left it's a it's if you think about it it's actually true you don't want to hit it there so you if you just laugh at it and then go right now what do i want to do with this golf ball what does a good shot look like what am i trying to do you know and then then what's my target and then go back into that 468 00:35:54.532 --> 00:36:05.498 It's when we overly pay too much attention to the thoughts that go on in our minds, that's when we get caught up, rather than just letting those thoughts wash through. 469 00:36:07.278 --> 00:36:11.341 Why are some of us better at some things than we are at others? 470 00:36:11.421 --> 00:36:17.404 Why, as individuals, are we skilled at certain things, yet certain tasks can be
so difficult? 471 00:36:17.484 --> 00:36:23.967 And I'm sure that there are basketball players, football players, baseball players, cricket players listening to this. 472 00:36:24.695 --> 00:36:31.880 And they're like, well, I'm great at those sports, but I can't hit a five-yard carry, six-yard run-out chip. 473 00:36:32.020 --> 00:36:35.922 Why are we so good at certain things and other things we find so difficult? 474 00:36:37.303 --> 00:36:41.966 So there's so many variables when you look at different sports, you know, there's... 475 00:36:43.082 --> 00:36:44.684 Golf is what we call self-paced. 476 00:36:44.724 --> 00:36:46.005 You decide when to hit it. 477 00:36:46.265 --> 00:36:47.627 So it's not a reaction sport. 478 00:36:47.687 --> 00:36:57.176 Now, reaction sports, like a return in tennis or, you know, in football or soccer, as you call it now, Trotty. 479 00:36:58.437 --> 00:37:00.619 I'm just appealing to my U.S. audience. 480 00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:01.700 I know. 481 00:37:01.861 --> 00:37:02.721 I know. 482 00:37:04.450 --> 00:37:19.842 If a cross has come in from Mo Salah and a big Van Dijk's just wanting to wallop it in with his head, like he's done on many massive occasions, then he doesn't really have time to think about it. 483 00:37:19.862 --> 00:37:20.563 He just reacts. 484 00:37:20.743 --> 00:37:23.205 And so you're almost taking the thinking out of it. 485 00:37:23.865 --> 00:37:30.650 Now, with golf, obviously the golf ball is stationary, and there's very few sports where the ball is stationary. 486 00:37:30.770 --> 00:37:34.632 So that's why we need these little mental pre-shot routines. 487 00:37:35.053 --> 00:37:36.654 You know, it's almost like a domino effect. 488 00:37:37.606 --> 00:37:50.709 with the end result being starting the golf swing, but a small sequence of events, it might be looking up, standing at the ball, looking up at the target, then looking at the golf ball, and then starting the golf swing. 489 00:37:50.749 --> 00:37:53.310 So it might be like A, B, C, or 1, 2, 3. 490 00:37:53.950 --> 00:37:57.731 So listeners out there can have a work on that. 491 00:37:57.791 --> 00:38:04.412 And then if it goes A, last look at the target, B, look at the ball, and then there's a big gap between B and C, 492 00:38:08.314 --> 00:38:16.258 gives the brain opportunity to overthink consciously, you know, and that's when people start to put a bad move on it. 493 00:38:16.278 --> 00:38:20.460 So you'll see a lot of players, you know, tall players. 494 00:38:21.101 --> 00:38:22.822 Davis Love III was amazing at it. 495 00:38:22.842 --> 00:38:25.223 Colleen Montgomery was amazing at it. 496 00:38:25.763 --> 00:38:30.246 Even Tiger, you know, Tiger was great at every bloody aspect of the game. 497 00:38:31.119 --> 00:38:42.393 But all these players, the sequencing of last look at the target, look at the ball, and then when they start the actual swing would be so consistent. 498 00:38:42.994 --> 00:38:49.462 Now, I'm not one for you only have one look at your target or one look at the hole, you know, or your target on the green. 499 00:38:49.482 --> 00:38:49.582 Yeah. 500 00:38:51.464 --> 00:38:55.786 If you want to have three looks sometimes and then two looks another time, that's fine in my world. 501 00:38:55.826 --> 00:39:02.991 The key is the last look at your target to the ball and then start in the goal swing or the putter stroke. 502 00:39:03.751 --> 00:39:13.057 Lee, I think the best thing I can say about you as I think about how we conclude on this, you've been amazing in my life. 503 00:39:13.117 --> 00:39:13.957 I'll be honest, mate. 504 00:39:14.017 --> 00:39:15.258 We've known each other a long time. 505 00:39:15.578 --> 00:39:19.901 And I think for any coach you can have a relationship with over time, 506 00:39:20.401 --> 00:39:45.567 two and a half decades and still return and it feel like yesterday is just truly credit to yourself and I talk about me because at the end of the day I am relatable to the layman you work with some of the best players in the world I am not that and you still help me find the level that I want to be so personally it's been awesome before you go we have two questions here for you one I'm going to make them quick fire one is 507 00:39:46.105 --> 00:39:51.286 Because we have to think about it because we've all got kids now, this side of the podcast, as I know you have too. 508 00:39:51.886 --> 00:39:56.387 What's the youngest age you like to get someone so you can work with them? 509 00:39:58.768 --> 00:40:03.329 I think you can start from about 10. 510 00:40:03.349 --> 00:40:06.970 I think if you can start to get some of these little... 511 00:40:08.014 --> 00:40:13.600 nuggets and bits and pieces in place from 10 years old, then they've got them as life skills. 512 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:18.184 You know, they have got them as life skills, but it doesn't have to be 10. 513 00:40:18.204 --> 00:40:24.350 You know, it's not, that's not an absolute perfect, but that would be kind of the earliest, I would say that you would go. 514 00:40:24.591 --> 00:40:27.053 You know, my daughter swims and I... 515 00:40:28.265 --> 00:40:31.167 help her quite a bit with the focus side of swimming. 516 00:40:31.227 --> 00:40:36.771 You know, when she first started competing, she was looking in the other lanes and, you know, it distracts her. 517 00:40:37.091 --> 00:40:45.057 But now she'll just kind of focus on her lane and do the best, you know, technique and keep driving forward that she possibly can. 518 00:40:45.077 --> 00:40:49.380 You know, she's 10, you know, so I would say around 10 years old would be the earliest. 519 00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:51.501 Ideally, it doesn't matter. 520 00:40:51.541 --> 00:40:53.783 You can teach an old dog new tricks. 521 00:40:54.323 --> 00:40:56.544 You know, I've worked with many players who – 522 00:40:57.445 --> 00:41:04.546 you know, tall players and amateurs who have come to me when they're, you
know, in the 30s and they improve. 523 00:41:04.966 --> 00:41:18.349 Blandy, Richard Blank came to see me a number of years ago and he'd always been, you know, always finishing around 95, between 95 and 110 and he finished 31st, you know, on the Order of Merit. 524 00:41:18.369 --> 00:41:25.550 The first time he'd broken out of that barrier of trying to keep his card, you know, and he was in his 40s when he did that. 525 00:41:27.328 --> 00:41:28.088 It's amazing. 526 00:41:28.108 --> 00:41:29.569 They hope for everyone. 527 00:41:30.149 --> 00:41:32.890 But I worked with an amateur about three years ago. 528 00:41:32.910 --> 00:41:33.890 We just had one session. 529 00:41:33.910 --> 00:41:38.072 He was in his 60s and he hadn't played to his handicap for 18 months. 530 00:41:38.092 --> 00:41:39.152 He was at the end of his tether. 531 00:41:39.752 --> 00:41:47.795 And we did one session, rearranged his goals, got him out of outcome goals and worried about his handicap and being more process-focused. 532 00:41:48.115 --> 00:41:51.596 We ended up giving him three process goals and he shot a net 62. 533 00:41:52.596 --> 00:41:53.276 And he was in his 60s. 534 00:41:55.317 --> 00:41:58.100 Foucault would have done that against me, getting 10 shots, I bet you. 535 00:42:00.241 --> 00:42:03.084 And then the final point, we like to keep it a little jovial here. 536 00:42:03.104 --> 00:42:05.807 We are running a top 10 beers in the world list. 537 00:42:05.887 --> 00:42:10.751 And I know you're going to have some good ones to add to this, especially with all the recent success and the past success. 538 00:42:11.071 --> 00:42:16.236 To give you some examples, we've had Piers Ward, who had an Alex Ferguson sweet bar, Man United. 539 00:42:16.256 --> 00:42:18.178 I'm not sure that gets number one, but it's in there. 540 00:42:18.598 --> 00:42:24.225 I had a wet the baby's head beer on a ferry from Hong Kong, Maine Island to discovery Bay that was down. 541 00:42:24.265 --> 00:42:25.026 I actually had two of them. 542 00:42:25.046 --> 00:42:25.867 That was fantastic. 543 00:42:26.288 --> 00:42:28.050 Ozone bar beer in Hong Kong. 544 00:42:28.090 --> 00:42:32.695 Again, Bubsy had a bed beer when he got all his kids to bed one night. 545 00:42:32.735 --> 00:42:33.576 That was fantastic. 546 00:42:33.616 --> 00:42:34.617 It might've been a Chinzano. 547 00:42:34.637 --> 00:42:34.818 No, 548 00:42:35.238 --> 00:42:39.519 Daryl had a Castle Lager overlooking Table Mountain. 549 00:42:39.899 --> 00:42:47.562 And then Bubsy's got another one in here of Barbados on his honeymoon where he enjoyed that beer and some overly aroused activities afterwards, I'm sure. 550 00:42:47.902 --> 00:42:58.385 So do you have any beers that you can add to our top 10 list, brand and location and meaning that are some of your most memorable beers in all the success story you've had? 551 00:42:59.795 --> 00:43:00.916 Do you know what? 552 00:43:01.116 --> 00:43:06.660 There's been a lot. 553 00:43:09.101 --> 00:43:11.063 You can have your own top ten if you want. 554 00:43:12.063 --> 00:43:14.225 A load of players say, who counsels you, Lee? 555 00:43:14.265 --> 00:43:15.866 I say, Mr. Heineken or, you know. 556 00:43:15.886 --> 00:43:18.668 But there is one that does stand out. 557 00:43:18.688 --> 00:43:21.770 It was probably 2012 when Brandon Grace won the Dunhill Lynx. 558 00:43:29.772 --> 00:43:32.215 I think it was his fourth win that year. 559 00:43:32.856 --> 00:43:35.599 And I'd done the practice days. 560 00:43:36.120 --> 00:43:41.807 And then me and the missus had gone to Portugal, to Villamora, for a few days' break. 561 00:43:41.867 --> 00:43:44.770 So on the Sunday, we were watching it in a bar. 562 00:43:45.311 --> 00:43:48.595 And it was a Sagres and... 563 00:43:49.938 --> 00:43:55.600 We were just watching it and then he won for his fourth win in that breakthrough year. 564 00:43:55.620 --> 00:43:59.361 And we had a bottle of bubbles on the go, but I had a Sargras as well. 565 00:43:59.421 --> 00:44:01.101 So yeah, that was it. 566 00:44:01.141 --> 00:44:02.622 I can't remember which bar it was. 567 00:44:03.202 --> 00:44:09.184 I don't think it was the 19th hole in Villamora, but it was a bar of similar ilk. 568 00:44:09.584 --> 00:44:12.885 It might have been the 19th hole in Villamora, but yeah, that was a special one. 569 00:44:13.499 --> 00:44:15.441 So Brandon Grace, fourth win in the year. 570 00:44:15.501 --> 00:44:18.525 Villamora, Bar, and it's Sargress, Lee Cumble home. 571 00:44:18.565 --> 00:44:19.506 I think that gets in. 572 00:44:19.606 --> 00:44:20.247 That's a good one. 573 00:44:20.507 --> 00:44:21.068 That goes... 574 00:44:21.707 --> 00:44:22.368 That goes up there. 575 00:44:22.388 --> 00:44:27.351 We'll rearrange this order when you're not present, but that definitely gets into the top seven or eight we got so far. 576 00:44:27.891 --> 00:44:28.632 Mate, awesome. 577 00:44:28.852 --> 00:44:34.576 And anyone who wants to find out about Lee winning Golf Mind will put everything down in the description below. 578 00:44:34.956 --> 00:44:37.338 He's got some parent duties to take care of. 579 00:44:37.378 --> 00:44:40.020 The three of us will wrap up this podcast and summarise everything. 580 00:44:40.040 --> 00:44:41.721 But Lee, fantastic as ever. 581 00:44:41.761 --> 00:44:42.942 Thank you so much for joining us. 582 00:44:43.442 --> 00:44:44.423 Thanks, guys. 583 00:44:45.043 --> 00:44:45.884 Cheers for the questions. 584 00:44:46.744 --> 00:44:47.084 No worries. 585 00:44:47.104 --> 00:44:47.565 Thanks for the time. 586 00:44:54.195 --> 00:44:55.797 So there you have it, Lee Crumble home. 587 00:44:55.857 --> 00:44:56.438 What a fella. 588 00:44:57.038 --> 00:44:58.720 We've bought you Psychology this week. 589 00:44:59.021 --> 00:45:03.606 And of course, it's been powered by, once again, everybody, KBS player-driven, tour-proven. 590 00:45:04.046 --> 00:45:05.027 Some good friends of
mine. 591 00:45:05.067 --> 00:45:07.190 It's nice we didn't have the dog interrupt us for once, boys. 592 00:45:08.272 --> 00:45:08.712 Very true. 593 00:45:08.732 --> 00:45:13.856 And I feel like I need to be shouting out the Rocket Yard office here and Bubz needs to be talking about the Chris Ryan app behind. 594 00:45:13.896 --> 00:45:14.797 Like, what are we doing here? 595 00:45:14.897 --> 00:45:17.379 Yeah, well, it's me taking care of partners. 596 00:45:17.399 --> 00:45:18.120 You lads are shy. 597 00:45:18.240 --> 00:45:19.921 We knew that. 598 00:45:19.941 --> 00:45:23.364 What do you make of that conversation, lads? 599 00:45:23.444 --> 00:45:24.765 You take a lot away from that? 600 00:45:26.163 --> 00:45:34.069 Yeah, I'll tell you what I quite liked is actually that when he was talking about that sort of go-to mindset, that forward mindset, because I definitely feel that. 601 00:45:34.510 --> 00:45:41.795 I know this even down in the business capacity, I go for a meeting and there's just some meetings I go, yeah, I'm going to dominate this. 602 00:45:41.855 --> 00:45:42.996 I'm in for this conversation. 603 00:45:43.056 --> 00:45:45.618 I go in and I get ready and I leave feeling that way. 604 00:45:46.179 --> 00:45:52.184 And there's other times where it's almost like the situation can feel like it's a bit intimidating around you and actually you just underperform. 605 00:45:52.784 --> 00:45:58.988 So I think what he was talking about on that sense, just for me, in what I do day to day, I can resonate. 606 00:45:59.028 --> 00:46:00.108 I can relate to what he was saying. 607 00:46:00.609 --> 00:46:07.893 So for a golfer who is going towards a positive outcome, I think is a, for me, that sort of resonated completely. 608 00:46:09.554 --> 00:46:09.874 I agree. 609 00:46:09.894 --> 00:46:10.114 I think. 610 00:46:10.994 --> 00:46:16.797 What I was really interested about, and I kind of wanted to ask him a little bit more detail, but Trotty kind of covered it. 611 00:46:17.477 --> 00:46:22.320 Obviously, I've got twin boys who are six years old, and Trotty's got kids, and you have got kids as well. 612 00:46:23.841 --> 00:46:32.865 You know, we kind of hear these anecdotal stories about Tiger and his dad and what he used to do with him as a kid, and he turned out to be just an incredibly mentally strong athlete. 613 00:46:32.885 --> 00:46:38.368 So I think just a lot of the stuff that Lee said, I do want to start implementing that into my boys' golf. 614 00:46:38.928 --> 00:46:45.553 you know, sort of getting them to sort of focus on the target and, you know, not worrying about the trouble of being super focused on what they're trying to do. 615 00:46:45.693 --> 00:46:56.441 I'm not going to go into that much detail, but I think, you know, for anyone listening, who's got kids, whether it be getting them into soccer or football or rugby or cricket or whatever it may be, you know, I think it's such an important aspect. 616 00:46:56.461 --> 00:47:01.385 And I think you can do probably a lot of harm in those early years saying the wrong thing and getting them to focus on the wrong thing. 617 00:47:01.405 --> 00:47:08.210 So I'm definitely going to reevaluate kind of how I talk to my boys about golf and getting them to just start to do the right thing now. 618 00:47:09.525 --> 00:47:10.486 It's a difficult one. 619 00:47:10.586 --> 00:47:18.572 I would say that with my son is into his sport and definitely with golf, I've been, I'll be honest, I give myself a pat on the back here. 620 00:47:18.632 --> 00:47:21.875 You know me, boys, I'm harsh on my own performance. 621 00:47:21.955 --> 00:47:24.097 But as a parent with golf, I've been good with him. 622 00:47:24.477 --> 00:47:28.560 I've literally given him hardly any swing advice and just been smack it there. 623 00:47:28.841 --> 00:47:31.443 And if the ball doesn't go there, I'm like, go smack it again. 624 00:47:31.863 --> 00:47:33.243 Like just who cares? 625 00:47:33.444 --> 00:47:34.644 And that's been brilliant. 626 00:47:35.024 --> 00:47:39.345 Now, football, soccer is his main love. 627 00:47:40.046 --> 00:47:42.967 And we've actually sat down and watched the last dance together. 628 00:47:43.147 --> 00:47:44.427 And he's only a nipper too. 629 00:47:44.967 --> 00:47:51.449 And, you know, you see then Lee touched on it, Michael Jordan, the way he pulled out the most from his teammates. 630 00:47:51.649 --> 00:47:56.871 And I was watching practice last night for my son, and he was very much, he plays striker. 631 00:47:56.891 --> 00:47:59.512 So he was waiting for service and, 632 00:48:00.195 --> 00:48:14.476 you know, it was for a young kid, it was a lot of heat on the players around him, to the point where I was like, maybe you need to address how you're speaking to the others, and it needs to be a bit more positive, rather than get the ball here, do this, do that. 633 00:48:15.338 --> 00:48:15.558 But, 634 00:48:16.077 --> 00:48:19.859 You know, if you look at Michael Jordan, it wasn't always positive when it was the teammates around him. 635 00:48:19.999 --> 00:48:22.820 But if the ball comes to you, you better make it work. 636 00:48:23.481 --> 00:48:23.961 So I don't know. 637 00:48:24.161 --> 00:48:24.981 It's interesting. 638 00:48:25.001 --> 00:48:30.884 I think there's life lessons for us all to learn there on and off the golf course, as we all allude to. 639 00:48:31.284 --> 00:48:36.247 I think that is a fantastically strong entrant into the top 10 beer locations as well, guys. 640 00:48:36.287 --> 00:48:41.289 I mean, fourth win for Brandon Grace and he's sacking down a Sagres in Portugal. 641 00:48:41.349 --> 00:48:42.830 I mean, that's strong. 642 00:48:42.850 --> 00:48:43.550 That might knock. 643 00:48:43.950 --> 00:48:45.611 I was looking at this list and I was like, 644 00:48:46.233 --> 00:48:47.794 I've got Bed Beer Buds. 645 00:48:48.134 --> 00:48:48.954 I don't know what that is. 646 00:48:49.114 -->
00:48:52.875 And then after that, I've got Beer on the Honeymoon Barbados. 647 00:48:52.895 --> 00:48:54.456 So I'm like, okay, I can get that one. 648 00:48:54.716 --> 00:48:55.596 But I've got Banks. 649 00:48:55.816 --> 00:48:57.477 So I assume that was someone who wrote in. 650 00:48:57.977 --> 00:48:59.877 No, that was Banks Beer in Barbados. 651 00:49:00.417 --> 00:49:00.738 That was you. 652 00:49:00.758 --> 00:49:01.498 Yeah, that's you then. 653 00:49:01.518 --> 00:49:02.778 Banks Beer in Barbados. 654 00:49:03.759 --> 00:49:04.759 So I've got Bed Beer. 655 00:49:04.939 --> 00:49:05.719 What's Bed Beer? 656 00:49:06.439 --> 00:49:08.100 Just getting your kids to bed and you had a beer. 657 00:49:08.180 --> 00:49:08.580 Yeah. 658 00:49:08.660 --> 00:49:09.680 It's got your... 659 00:49:09.740 --> 00:49:10.821 I think it was you. 660 00:49:10.861 --> 00:49:11.581 I think it was you. 661 00:49:11.661 --> 00:49:13.242 It's got your name next to it. 662 00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.557 Okay, I'll scratch that one now. 663 00:49:19.228 --> 00:49:20.648 Yeah, you can scrap that one. 664 00:49:20.668 --> 00:49:22.229 See, Banks via Barbados. 665 00:49:22.269 --> 00:49:23.489 So we've got a good list going. 666 00:49:23.949 --> 00:49:29.850 Dasla, I know it's only been a few days since we had the last podcast and we're recording this one in advance. 667 00:49:30.430 --> 00:49:31.650 Any messages, any writing? 668 00:49:31.670 --> 00:49:35.211 I know guys listening, we appreciate all of the interaction, all of the engagement. 669 00:49:35.551 --> 00:49:43.572 I know on my personal channels, I've had some guys get in touch with me and just compliment us on the work we're doing here, which I appreciate that. 670 00:49:43.672 --> 00:49:45.653 I can see that the listeners are up. 671 00:49:45.713 --> 00:49:48.413 We've had Lloyd shout out that one as well to tell us that, 672 00:49:48.773 --> 00:49:52.156 We're having a lot more downloads and listens, so we appreciate it. 673 00:49:52.556 --> 00:50:00.203 The Dope Stroke podcast, folks, Daryl can tell you everywhere to find it, and I shall allow him to take the floor and close out this week's podcast. 674 00:50:00.797 --> 00:50:09.080 Yeah, to echo what you're saying there, Trudy, we've definitely had a few people email in, a few direct messages, a few messages directly to myself as well. 675 00:50:09.180 --> 00:50:10.880 Like you said, complimenting what we're doing. 676 00:50:10.900 --> 00:50:14.661 We're obviously doing some things the right way, loving some of the criticism as well. 677 00:50:14.681 --> 00:50:17.602 That's generally quite helpful, in particular the Tommy Fleetwood in the top 10. 678 00:50:17.962 --> 00:50:20.643 But beyond that... Got heat for that. 679 00:50:20.663 --> 00:50:21.724 Yeah, got heat, you said. 680 00:50:21.804 --> 00:50:22.284 But... 681 00:50:22.910 --> 00:50:35.658 Yeah, I think there's definitely guys are quite enjoying the fact that we're bringing the conversation from three totally different viewpoints and just talking about the experiences that we have to be able to give the insight that we are. 682 00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:41.742 So I'm definitely encouraging those guys to drop us some notes about what you'd like us to talk about. 683 00:50:42.202 --> 00:50:44.004 I know the World Rankings one was quite popular. 684 00:50:44.124 --> 00:50:46.145 I know the State of Golf was quite popular. 685 00:50:46.845 --> 00:50:48.086 So yeah, please drop that in. 686 00:50:48.106 --> 00:50:50.828 The email address to do so is hello at dopestrope.com. 687 00:50:51.048 --> 00:51:08.272 dot golf so please send that through and on social media you'll find us at dope stroke dot show but as usual you can check us out on apple and shopify and again it is the dope stroke podcast so please go ahead and do that or actually uh that's it that's all i've got for you 688 00:51:08.472 --> 00:51:10.473 But until the next episode, I'll close it up. 689 00:51:10.533 --> 00:51:12.074 We can still wait for these two to do it. 690 00:51:12.314 --> 00:51:14.235 You know where to find us, all the usual places. 691 00:51:14.436 --> 00:51:17.057 You can get us on your podcast, Apple devices. 692 00:51:17.077 --> 00:51:18.818 You can get us on Spotify. 693 00:51:19.118 --> 00:51:20.719 And also you can find us on YouTube. 694 00:51:21.059 --> 00:51:24.602 Until next time, that was episode number seven or eight. 695 00:51:24.982 --> 00:51:27.623 I can't even remember, but it's in the books. 696 00:51:27.723 --> 00:51:28.184 We'll be back. 697 00:51:28.544 --> 00:51:30.785 We've got another guest coming for you, hot and strong, next week. 698 00:51:31.125 --> 00:51:31.426 Take care.
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