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manipulating the genetic structure in order to make them intelligent. Brittney Oh, girl. Scary. Joshua It is. It is a frightening concept. It's an interesting idea. It's played around a lot in certain science fiction books. Brittney Because humans are trash. Joshua Well, that's kind of the. That’s her method of thinking. She's like, human beings are consuming, and they are violent, so therefore they're not really good inheritors of the galaxy. So, she really wants to create—mad scientist, totally. She wants to help create a society, a civilization of chimpanzees, that are without those hold ups. Brittney I wouldn’t have picked chimps. Joshua Right. I think that's kind of a bold choice for her, because chimpanzees, God love them, they tend to be on the ferocious side. Brittney No kidding! I think I've said this before, but my friend who was studying to be a zookeeper. She was like, “anybody who works with chimps is usually missing fingers.” Joshua Losing fingers, because they are … Brittney Why train chimps? Joshua Well, I think because … Okay, so she created this virus, this virus that kind of encourages evolution. So, the idea is, is that when this virus finds a host, it will kind of like manipulate genetic structure. So, within a few generations, the hosts will begin to form a society and hopefully, like within a generation, a primitive society that will continue to grow into a more modern society. Brittney Okay, shots fired, I'm going to say she's not a very smart scientist. Joshua Well, like I said, she's kind of a mad scientist.  Brittney She should have picked humpback whales. I'm telling you. Joshua I wonder if, like, it's because chimpanzees are so close to humankind that she knew that … I am just assuming what this fictional character is doing, that the virus would be more effective. Brittney No. I’m mad. Joshua Because of her idea is like the virus is going to select certain parts of the genetic structure that encourage social cohesion, less so much more violence and stuff like that. Like, it’ll cut those parts out. Brittney How come she didn't do that to humans? Joshua Humans are already here. I don’t know! Brittney I am so sorry. You tell me things from these books and I’m always like: Joshua, answer! Joshua I wish I knew. Brittney Please tell me the story. I’ll stop complaining. Joshua No, no, no! This is good. Brittney I’m mad that she didn't pick humpback whales. They are altruistic. Joshua As I was reading this, I was like, “I would not pick chimpanzees.” Brittney This is how you get a Planet of the Apes! They might eat our faces off. Joshua Well, there's a lot of people who do not agree with what our Dr. Avrana Kern is doing. On Earth, there is a movement, an anti-genetics movement, where others say, “No, do not uplift animals that’s bad!” But they enforce their paradigm in a way that's kind of like, you know, typical human. Let's blow it up. So, Avrana Kern gets wind of this attack that’s impending, that’s coming to her own planet. She has terraformed a planet that she calls Kern's World. Brittney Oh, interesting. I didn't realize it was intergalactic. Joshua Yeah. Yeah. So human civilization is like a galaxy spanning. And she has her own little world where she's going to put some chimps on the planet and then infect them with the virus and everyone’s going to be happy. Brittney Little Okay, so it's kind of fun. It’s like a video game. A really unethical video game. Joshua Unfortunately, there's a missile coming her way and she's like, “Okay, I'm just going to start now. No more tests, no more of her beating around the bush. I'm just going to go forward with it.” And then she sends the monkeys, no, not monkeys, the apes out, and they kind of like get hit and they blow up in atmosphere and she's like, “curse you humanity!” Brittney Mah Chimps! Joshua So, she decides like, okay, maybe enough of the chimps survived, the virus, would find a host, and then they get to make their own planet. She goes into cryo-sleep to integrate her consciousness into the A.I. of the satellite in hopes of, kind of like, being the protective force around the planet. Brittney The mad scientist protective force.  Joshua On the planet’s surface, we have a little spider called portia labiata. It's commonly known as a white mustache jumping spider. Brittney Is this an actual spider. Joshua It's an actual spider that lives in, like, Southeast Asia. If you see them, they're kind of creepy, but if you look closely on their face, you know, we have a big giant spider eyes, but they have like this President Taft mustache. Brittney [in a gentlemen’s voice] “hello there.” Joshua Very dapper. So portia labiate is like going through the forest and she's like, “I’m a jumping spider! I see that branch and I’m going to go to it!” and she does. And then she, like, sees another spider. She's like, “Oh, a rival. I going to kill this one.” But then a new thought comes into her mind, “but wait! We could be friends!” and the other spider has the same thought, “Ha! We shall be friends!”  The virus has found a host in this little spider. Brittney This is like kindergarten where we’re like, “Oh, we have the same Barbie lunchbox, we shall be friends!” Joshua Exactly! So, what follows is a story about these generations of spiders and the effects of the virus on them as they go from primitive beings to a fully functioning planetary civilization. And you get to experience their joys and sorrows. They find love and fight rivalries. They fight revolutions! It’s just so … I just love these little spiders so much because they're just so endearing, even though they look monstrous. Joshua But also, there's a parallel story. So as the spiders are growing up and they run the civilization, humankind has kind of collapsed in on itself.  Brittney Shocking. Joshua The war-like nature, and the consumptive nature of humanity has kind of overburdened it and the earth is completely decimated. And we follow the crew of the Gilgamesh who

are like the last remnants of humanity. Brittney How do I know that name? Joshua It’s from a book about a hero who survived a flood, and he had a dog man best friend named Enkidu. It’s like an ancient story. Brittney I was like, “Is this from the Bible or is this a book? Joshua It’s pre-Bible, I think. It’s like one of the oldest stories in the world.  Unfortunately, the last terraformed planet is Kern’s World, and they are heading straight for it. Brittney Oh, Crazy Scientist Lady. Is this also spider world?  Joshua This is also spider world, yes.  Brittney Those spiders are gonna mess you up. Joshua Well, you’ll have to read the book to find out. Brittney They’re going to go up your nostril because that’s what happens at night. Joshua Actually, they're kind of … I mean, they're not big. I imagine they're Jaeger-sized. Brittney Jaeger is my dog, for those of you who don’t know. He’s about 30 pounds. Joshua Can I just fangirl about portia labiata, the species of spider, as the reason why I loved this book? Brittney Right. Joshua So, they're so fascinating. They're small. They're small enough to fit on your pinky finger. They’re tiny little babies! They're so little! Their eyes can actually discern color. It's not like color like we see. It's kind of closer to what a dog sees, but still not as good as a dog. But still, the fact that they can differentiate color is amazing for an arachnid. They can’t do that. Their eyes suck. Brittney Well, because they're jumping spiders, they don't make webs. They chase down their prey. So, that kind of makes sense. Joshua And they're also really good at gauging distances. So, they have like a tele-photo … Brittney Well, that’s good because they have to jump. Joshua Exactly. They wouldn’t be a very good jumping spider if they missed the branch. Brittney Like a grasshopper splat on the ground. Joshua I meant to do that! Brittney It was on purpose. Joshua And they're really smart for arachnids. They are able to develop tactics for hunting different kinds of prey, like they are one of the few kinds of spiders actually hunt other spiders. It's very dangerous. Brittney Yeah, it is! Joshua So, like, they will encounter web-weaving spiders and also encounter other jumping spiders. So, they have different techniques that they have learned through practice and sometimes through instinct to catch this prey. Brittney Wow. Joshua Their hairy bodies are not just because they are cute and fuzzy. It's actually because how they communicate with each other. They use rhythm and percussion. So, like they see another spider they're gonna do their little [makes telegraph sounds].  Brittney Is that like Morse code?  Joshua Kind of like Morse code but not the kind you can hear the kind you can feel. So, like, a person who is hearing impaired will still feel the music to their feet. Brittney I remember seeing a thing where they brought kids to a concert, and they gave them balloons so they could feel the music. That’s cool! Joshua Totally cool. So, like when the spiders are like courting each other or they're like past each other by, they're like, “Hey, I am a friend or I'm the food. Let's mate!” That kind of thing. They’ll do their little … Brittney & Joshua [make the ‘Shave and a Haircut’ tone] Brittney “Let’s Netflix and chill, what do you think?” Joshua Oh, my god! That’s exactly the tone. Brittney It's really fun seeing friendships between animals. And I know there's like a whole debate about is it for first survival or something else? But it's like, just let me have my niceness.  Joshua Of course, it’s a friendship in its own way. Brittney Yeah. Into the Rolling Deep? Is that Mira Grant? Joshua Yeah, Into the Drowning Deep. Brittney So, in that particular book, they have dolphins who are really smart. And it's so funny because one of them makes a comment to the other, “humans aren’t smart enough to understand our poetry. It’s just different. Joshua It's true. Sidetrack. I did see a comparison of a dolphin brain with a human brain. Again, this is on social media, so I don't know the veracity of this, but a dolphin brain is a lot wrinklier than a human brain. This makes me think, like, maybe they're smarter than us because they've got more wrinkles. And as we know, wrinkles mean smarts. Brittney If they had hands, they’d be unstoppable. Joshua So, if you can imagine all the cool aspects of this spider and how Adrian is able to weave that into a civilization that is so different from ours, but it's also like something that's like, “Wow, they're so cool.” I love them. That's my story. Brittney It sounds like if you liked this book you’d probably like The Bees by Laline Paull. I'm also starting to read a nonfiction book right now, and it's called The Social Lives of Animals by Ashley Ward. She’s a podcaster. And it's all the interesting relationships that animals help each other, so I'm sure I just. Joshua Sort of like interspecies relationships too. Brittney I think so, yeah. She started with bats, which I learned about. You know, they have blood buddies. Joshua What is that? Brittney Oh, sorry. So, Radiolab did an episode that's called Blood Buddies and vampire bats, if one doesn't get enough food … if they don't if they don't get food for, like three days, they'll starve. So, bats will feed each other. And they have, like, bat best friends. They kind of go to the same bat all the time and it's not an easy thing to do. It’s not like they're related or they're mating, or anything like that. They’re blood buddies. They’re bat besties. Joshua Like their place in the cave, they’re flat mates, basically. And they’re like, “Hey, let's move in together. Let’s share rent together.” Brittney Yeah! Joshua Oh, my God I love bats so much! Brittney Even vampire bats, which are a little scary. Joshua I just imagine all the top hats and it's all good. Brittney I just love animals. So interesting. Joshua What you got? Brittney Mine is not as animal specific as yours. So, this book is

called The Hidden. It's by Melanie Golding and I listened to it on Hoopla. We currently have one book in the library system, because I requested it. She also wrote Little Darlings and that one’s about changelings. Joshua Oh, okay! Brittney This one is about selkies! So, that’s where my animal thing comes in: Seals!   Joshua SEALS? Fun! Brittney We’re not in the seal world all the time but we do see it here and there. Before we get into this, I'm going to spoil things because it is a thriller. Joshua Oh, yeah. Hard not to. Brittney I’m like, “hmmm, I’m going to spoil some stuff. I won't spoil all of it but I'm going to spoil some. Spoiler number one, yes, she is a selkie. Because for the first chunk you're not sure. So, because this is a thriller, there's a lot of different viewpoints. So, I am going to go through her character list really quick and then I'm going to tell you the first chunk. And that's how I’ll leave things, okay?  There’s a little girl named Leoni. Beautiful name. The story starts with her wandering into a shop by herself and she's little. And so, you know, people are really concerned, like, “where's her parents?” You know, so they call the police.  There's a lady named Ruby who ends up showing up to the shop saying, “I am Leoni’s mother.” Joshua Oh, I don't trust this person. Brittney She's not Leoni’s mother. She convinces the police she is, and she takes Leoni with her.  There is Gregor. Gregor is discovered in his apartment, and he has been bludgeoned. He's not dead, but he has been bludgeoned.  Joshua That’s so scary. Brittney The detective who was working on this, it's all going to intertwine, the detective who's working on that case. Her name is Joanna. Joanna discovers Leoni, a little girl, is Gregor’s daughter. Now, Joanna is Ruby's mother! Joshua Get Out! Me went cross-eyed for a second, like what? Brittney Yeah, it’s all very intertwined. Well, Joanna realized Ruby is on the run with this little girl, and I don't know why. Because Ruby doesn't seem to be an evil person. She's like, “Why does Ruby have this little girl? I have no idea.”  The last person I’ll introduce is Constance. She is Leona's mother. The actual mother. And she seems to be nowhere. They find videos of her walking towards the ocean, and that's all I know. Joshua So, she's like, I just walked out of the ocean and never came back. Brittney So, a lot of people are thinking she killed herself. Joshua Oh, yeah. Brittney So, this is where we start off like, why does Ruby have Leoni. Why is Gregor bludgeoned? Where did Constance go if not to the ocean? So, we start on this back and forth of time jumps of how did Ruby meet Gregor? How did Ruby meet Constance? So, it turns out Ruby is not living very far away from Gregor, and she thinks he’s kind of hot. Joshua With his black eyes and swollen head. Brittney Before he was. This was in the past. Ruby and Gregor end up kind of becoming friends. I don’t know if he says he’s married? He says, “I have a partner and

she is unwell. Her name is Constance” And he talks about, “I have a daughter with her. I would appreciate if you could help take care of her sometimes if I need to go do something.” Constance believes this story and it's not true. I can't trust her to be by herself. I have to give her medicine to keep her from harming herself and our daughter. Brittney Constance, when she finally gets alone with Ruby says, “I am a selkie. I am from the sea. Gregor has abducted me and is keeping me hostage. He has my sealskin.” Joshua I knew there was some sketchy going on. My spider senses went crazy because it sounds so sketchy. Brittney It sounds really sketchy. She's like he has my sealskin. I can't go back to the sea. Joshua See, that's why. Oh, yes. Okay. So, mythology wise, Selkies can remove their sealskin to walk around in mortal form, is this true? Brittney Yes, that's true. Yes. Joshua I feel that they have to do your bidding. Brittney If you steal it, they can't go back. Joshua That makes me so mad. I hate it when people do that. Brittney They say, “But, I want a selkie wife.” Joshua But why? Brittney Because typically, they’re very beautiful. And, in this one, the selkies have an aura slash charm. Joshua Ah, so they have glamour. Brittney Kinda. Joshua Still, that's not a reason to kidnap a lady. Brittney No. I think some dudes are hot and I’m not like, “Here’s the chloroform!” That’s not how it works.  So, a lot of the story is trying to figure out is Gregor actually a bad guy or does he genuinely believe that causes is insane because she she's like, “I need to go back to the sea” or she’ll die.  So, you're trying to figure out what is going on as Constance tricked Ruby? Is Gregor worse than he seems? and where does Leoni fit into all this? as is she is the daughter of a selkie. What does that mean for her? Joshua That’s cool. I get a really strong psychological horror vibe. Well, not horror, thriller vibes. Like you can't really trust people's intentions, so many unreliable narrators here. It's so exciting. Brittney Yes, it's very good. I think anybody who typically loves murder mystery thrillers would love this book. This is like a perfect handhold into like some light fantasy. Because it is kind of light in fantasy. It's more of a twist and turns and who can I trust and who's telling the truth? Joshua Oh my God. It’s so exciting. Brittney So, this is quite fun. You do not get to see the selkies a whole lot, but you hear about the conversation between them and what's going on in the selkies’ world. So that's kind of interesting. And I can't give any more away. I know it's kind of like a short explanation, but it's really good. I really want to read Melanie Golding's Little Darlings because that's changelings. Yeah, I'm like, who likes changelings? This girl. So, this was a ton of fun and the cover is gorgeous. Joshua Hey, it’s a kelp forest. Brittney It’s a kelp forest. It’s very Pacific Northwest. Joshua Absolutely. Brittney But that's not where this takes place. I think this takes place in England. Joshua Probably. I'm sure they have kelp forests like this in England. Brittney No, it’s just Oregon. So, the cover is beautiful. I love selkie stories. As we did in … was it our graphic novels episode? Keltie the selkie? Joshua Oh, I think that was in our Pride episode 2022. Keltie the selkie, The Girl from The Sea Brittney The Girl from The Sea, thank you. Yeah, so this is Melanie Golding’s The Hidden. Joshua Yeah. So, if you are into mystery thrillers, this is the one to go to. Brittney This is the perfect handhold. Especially if you're like a fantasy sci fi lover and, like, your mom's a thriller lover. Exactly what happened to me. My mother loved this book, thought it was really good. Joshua Cool. Well, thanks Brittney, that was awesome. Well, that's the animals. Oh, I do have an honorable mention, a small one. Yeah. Okay, y'all, I don't really like classic science fiction. I find it crusty. I find it kind of outdated. Brittney Like older science fiction? Yeah. Joshua But I'm going to recommend this one, but with the caveat that the language in this is outdated. There's nothing intentionally misogynist about it. Unfortunately, books published in this time period kind of forget that women exist. I mean it's just a book of its time, but I think the subject is very interesting kind of topical right now, like kind of experiencing things expressed in this book. It's called The City by Clifford Simak. It's a collection of short stories that are loosely connected, that talk about how humans are on the decline. They are leaving their cities, which is very interesting. This book was published in 1952, and it's kind of describing like the, you know, the work from home culture that came out of the pandemic. People are, you know, doing things from Zoom rather than meeting face-to-face. So fascinating. How did they know this?  But what is replacing humanity are dogs. Brittney Oh, that’s way better. Joshua I know, right? Dogs are being uplifted, there’s that word again, to become intelligent. They are speaking. They are thinking. They're philosophizing animals and they are so much better at living life than humans are.  But yeah, this is classic science fiction. It's a strange and interesting allegory about the death of humanity and the replacement of something better.  Brittney I love that. Joshua Yeah, it's also really short. Brittney Now I’m going to bring this up. If you love dogs, watch Isle of the Dogs. Joshua Oh, yes. Brittney It was really good. It's very bittersweet. But man, if you love dogs. It celebrates dogs. And it also talks about some of the hardships they have to go through. So, Isle of Dogs, really great. And since you did an honorable mention. I’ll just do a quick callback to The Bees by Laline Paull. Joshua We covered that in our Best of 2022 episode. Brittney I’m glad you remember. Brittney And then, Kira Jane Buxton’s .... Joshua Hollow Kingdom. Brittney Thank you. Joshua We did that for our Apocalypse Reads. Brittney Yes. And that book totally celebrates animals. Joshua Which is about ... Brittney The end of humanity! Joshua The end of humanity and a talking bird, a raven, called ST. Brittney So, those are my two callbacks. Joshua So, without further ado, you guys have a great day. Brittney And don't forget to watch it. Joshua Play what you want.  Brittney and Joshua and read what you want! Brittney Bye everybody.