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be talking about this in more detail in a future episode. Claire 00:05:44 So you can either retain that information, park it, or just forget about it altogether until further along in the course. Claire 00:05:52 Back to Sam. Sam Sethi 00:05:54 Well, of course you're going to tell every one of your friends, you're going to tell anyone else you can get in your social media link and you're going to hope that they listen to it and spread the word. Sam Sethi 00:06:03 Word of mouth is still one of the most effective methods of getting your podcast discovered. Sam Sethi 00:06:09 But if that's the only way of discovery and you don't have a multimillion pound marketing budget, then you're probably only going to end up with half a dozen people listening to your podcast. Sam Sethi 00:06:19 And the big problem is people get what I call the Joe Rogan effect. Sam Sethi 00:06:23 Oh, my God, I'm going to start my podcast and everyone's going to listen and a million people are going to be listening to me, and then I'm going to get advertisers, and then I'm going to make millions of money and retire to my beach. Sam Sethi 00:06:33 And sadly, that is not the way it works. Sam Sethi 00:06:36 So for the majority of us, you know, we do get half a dozen friends. Sam Sethi 00:06:40 I say to people, if I stuck you in a room with 12 people or 20 people just listening to you, you'd be very happy on a weekly basis. Sam Sethi 00:06:48 So don't dismiss the numbers that you as, oh, there's only a couple of people listening. Sam Sethi 00:06:54 Well, they're interested, and if they're repeat listening, they really are interested. Sam Sethi 00:06:58 So that's good. Sam Sethi 00:07:00 That's the step one. Sam Sethi 00:07:01 You are not going to be Joe Rogan, so don't try. Sam Sethi 00:07:06 But step two, Discovery is about how can I, for want of a better word, podcast SEO? Sam Sethi 00:07:13 How can I get my titles right? Sam Sethi 00:07:15 How can I get the things that go into describing my podcast? Sam Sethi 00:07:20 The show notes, the descriptions, maybe as we talk about later, in the future, things about chapters and transcripts, but how can I get the stuff around the audio to help me get discovered by other people? Sam Sethi 00:07:32 So that's step one, and that's what podcasting 2.0 does. Sam Sethi 00:07:36 It provides those extra features which we call tags, that allow you to get discovered by keywords, titles, person tags, who's the host, who's the guest. Sam Sethi 00:07:48 So all those things are really important for Discovery. Claire 00:07:51 Yes, discovery. Claire 00:07:53 Of course it is. Claire 00:07:54 Half of the work is actually making the show, and the rest of the half of the work is trying to find people who want to listen to the show and tell people, look, my show is brilliant. Claire 00:08:03 Come and listen to it. Claire 00:08:06 Another thing we've talked about is, and I have heard this from other podcasters that I know is the interactivity. Claire 00:08:15 Like, it's difficult to actually get a relationship with your listener. Claire 00:08:19 Now, hopefully the listener has a relationship with you as the Host. Claire 00:08:22 But as the host, how do you know who it is that's listening and what they like and don't like about the show? Claire 00:08:29 Can that be helped along the way with any of the podcasting 2.0 features? Sam Sethi 00:08:34 We've all listened to radio, and as I said, I started off in radio, and one of the things with radio was you're talking into the abyss. Sam Sethi 00:08:41 You're in a studio with a mic and you're just broadcasting out, and you have no idea who listens. Sam Sethi 00:08:47 And then one day, suddenly, someone phones into your show or they write in just as excited as the person is. Sam Sethi 00:08:55 Did they just mention me on the radio? Sam Sethi 00:08:57 Oh, my God, that's brilliant. Sam Sethi 00:08:58 The host, actually, I promise you, gets just as excited when they hear that someone's actually listening to their radio show. Sam Sethi 00:09:05 And that is the same feeling that podcasters have. Sam Sethi 00:09:07 We go into whatever room that we have our podcast set up and we record and we go. Sam Sethi 00:09:13 I don't know if anyone's listening to this, but here we go. Sam Sethi 00:09:15 And then suddenly, now you're beginning to get feedback loops, which means that I get comments or I get. Sam Sethi 00:09:24 Which we will learn later are called boosts, but I get comments and I get that interactivity that gives me that affirmation that somebody out there has actually heard what I said, but not only just heard it, but has taken the time, energy, and effort to come back to me with some positively, hopefully, opinion. Sam Sethi 00:09:42 Now, we all have the Apple and Spotify ratings and reviews. Sam Sethi 00:09:46 They're great as well. Sam Sethi 00:09:47 That's another form of interactivity. Sam Sethi 00:09:49 But comments is a great way to also give that feedback loop to you as a host. Sam Sethi 00:09:56 And again, that's part of podcasting 2.0. Claire 00:09:59 Yeah, brilliant. Claire 00:10:00 And the other thing, and I'm not going to go into a great detail of this, but monetization is something that you've already mentioned. Claire 00:10:09 Don't expect to retire to the seaside. Claire 00:10:11 A challenge, or perhaps something that people expect to achieve when they start a show through things like, I'm assuming, sponsorships and adverts and stuff, which is all very valid. Claire 00:10:25 But I believe that there are some elements of podcasting 2.0 that can give you a different aspect of a kind of monetization model. Sam Sethi 00:10:35 Yeah, let's. Sam Sethi 00:10:36 Let's break this down. Sam Sethi 00:10:38 So monetization in today's podcasting, as you said, Claire, is sponsor driven. Sam Sethi 00:10:45 Host read. Sam Sethi 00:10:46 Advertising driven. Sam Sethi 00:10:47 Right. Sam Sethi 00:10:47

And if you. Sam Sethi 00:10:48 If you are lucky enough to get a sponsor, well done, you. Sam Sethi 00:10:52 Right. Sam Sethi 00:10:52 Congratulations. Sam Sethi 00:10:53 Because that's still hard to do. Sam Sethi 00:10:56 Host red ads are effective because they are based On a trust model, the listener trusts the host. Sam Sethi 00:11:03 That's generally why they're listening to their podcast. Sam Sethi 00:11:06 So the host then reading out an advert, hopefully, is not just endorsing something that they, you know, just do for money. Sam Sethi 00:11:13 But there is some authenticity to reading out that ad. Sam Sethi 00:11:17 Now, given all of that, again, the chances of you getting a host read ad given to you is very low as well, because most people want big numbers. Sam Sethi 00:11:26 They want thousands of people listening to your podcast. Sam Sethi 00:11:28 And that's the trouble with most podcasting monetization. Sam Sethi 00:11:33 Now, it's a numbers game. Sam Sethi 00:11:34 And unless you've got thousands or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, even most advertisers aren't coming to you either. Sam Sethi 00:11:43 How do you make Money? Sam Sethi 00:11:44 So podcasting 2.0 has come up with pay what you want or pay as you go. Sam Sethi 00:11:49 And that model really is for fans, let's say, to begin with, now, today, and maybe in the future it'll change. Sam Sethi 00:11:57 But today it's really for your hardcore fans who, who want to support you to stop you pod fading. Sam Sethi 00:12:03 You've done episode five, you're excited still, episode 10's come out and now you're going, I wonder if anyone's listening. Sam Sethi 00:12:11 I wonder if this is worth me spending an hour a day recording or whatever time, and then an hour editing, and you're suddenly going, I give up, I just give up. Sam Sethi 00:12:20 And actually, you have got an audience, but they haven't got a way to give you any monetization. Sam Sethi 00:12:26 Now, if we step back very quickly. Sam Sethi 00:12:29 When I first started in technology, I worked for a company called Microsoft and then Netscape. Sam Sethi 00:12:34 But at Netscape, the original browser company, we didn't create a monetization for the web. Sam Sethi 00:12:41 So you have PayPal, you have credit cards, but there was no web system for making money. Sam Sethi 00:12:49 And so in the absence of that, Facebook, Twitter, and the Web 2.0, companies created hearts likes, thumbs up, which are great. Sam Sethi 00:12:58 They're an affirmation of feedback from your listener. Sam Sethi 00:13:03 In the case, it was more blogs and posts. Sam Sethi 00:13:05 But again, the same idea is there. Sam Sethi 00:13:09 I really like what Claire wrote. Sam Sethi 00:13:11 I really love what Sam said there. Sam Sethi 00:13:13 Thumbs up. Sam Sethi 00:13:15 Well, that's lovely, but take that to the bank and see what your bank manager says. Sam Sethi 00:13:18 Right? Sam Sethi 00:13:19 I've got a million thumbs up. Sam Sethi 00:13:20 Well, visit the door fast. Sam Sethi 00:13:23 So the reality was, if you then wanted to get a credit card out and pay 50p or a pound or some micro payment, the credit card company or the PayPal Gateway company would take 30% or some percentage. Sam Sethi 00:13:42 So suddenly that 50p is 20p. Sam Sethi 00:13:44 That 20p is 10p. Sam Sethi 00:13:45 It's just a waste of time. Sam Sethi 00:13:46 Let's not bother. Sam Sethi 00:13:48 So fast forward to today and the podcasting 2.0 community have come up with a mechanism for you to get a wallet, get some funny money tokens, and we'll talk about them probably in later episodes. Sam Sethi 00:14:01 They call SATs. Sam Sethi 00:14:02 But Claire, you can explain them later. Sam Sethi 00:14:05 And I can make micro payments so I can leave a comment with a small micro payment so I can leave a comment saying, claire, love your podcast. Sam Sethi 00:14:15 Here's Tempe. Sam Sethi 00:14:16 Claire, loved what you did there. Sam Sethi 00:14:19 Here's another Tempe. Sam Sethi 00:14:20 Or I'm going to listen to your podcast and stream payments to you as I listen. Sam Sethi 00:14:25 So pay as you listen and I'm going to pay you. Sam Sethi 00:14:28 I don't know, the equivalent of a penny a minute. Sam Sethi 00:14:31 Right. Sam Sethi 00:14:32 And that micro payment capability is what podcasting 2.0 has done. Sam Sethi 00:14:38 And now you as a user can actually give real value back to the podcast that you're listening to if you want to. Sam Sethi 00:14:46 It's not a. Sam Sethi 00:14:47 I have to do this to listen. Sam Sethi 00:14:49 Now. Sam Sethi 00:14:50 There's a lot of hurdles in there. Sam Sethi 00:14:52 Terminology is the biggest, biggest hurdle. Sam Sethi 00:14:55 I talked about Netscape. Sam Sethi 00:14:57 Now cast your mind back to when you first came to the web. Sam Sethi 00:15:00 You had to learn what an HTTP was. Sam Sethi 00:15:03 You had to learn what a URL was. Sam Sethi 00:15:05 Why did it start www. Sam Sethi 00:15:07 What is a browser? Sam Sethi 00:15:08 Right. Sam Sethi 00:15:09 All of those things were terminology that you overcame. Sam Sethi 00:15:14 And once you overcame those hurdles, the web's pretty basic to everybody now. Sam Sethi 00:15:20 Then fast forward to today and when I tell you it's called a wallet and they're micro payments called sats, and you do peer to peer payments. Sam Sethi 00:15:29 You're looking at me. Sam Sethi 00:15:30 What are you talking about? Sam Sethi 00:15:32 But I promise, you listen to this show, learn about Podcasting 2.0, and you will understand very clearly how this all works, but also more clearly how you can support your favorite podcaster. Claire 00:15:47 Well, that's the perfect ending sound bite. Claire 00:15:49 Support your favorite podcaster. Claire 00:15:51 I have planned this course for that very reason, like I'm partly learning it. Claire 00:15:58 I have been in the position of knowing nothing about it. Claire 00:16:01 So we are going to take those elements, those things that we've talked about there, and we're going to explain things, things very slowly. Claire 00:16:08 So we're going to back up what we've talked about here. Claire 00:16:10 I'm going to relate that to what we talk about in the future. Claire 00:16:13 So listener, you're going to understand it and we're going to take it really slowly and step by step. Claire 00:16:19 Thank you so much, Sam, for explaining that and giving us a really good introduction as to why podcasters and listeners should continue listening to this show and be aware of what this modern technology can do. Claire 00:16:33 So thank you so much, Sam. Sam Sethi 00:16:35 Pleasure, Claire. Sam Sethi 00:16:36 I look forward to the rest of the episodes. Claire 00:16:38 Thank you. Claire 00:16:40 Visit creativityfound.co.uk podcasting to find out more about my guests and access lots of useful podcast resources. Claire 00:16:50 If you'd like to get in touch, you can send a boost, but if you haven't got to that lesson yet, feel free to reach out to me on my Instagram accountcasting 2.0. Claire 00:17:00 In practice.