Trascrizione completa di Mornings with Graeme Goodings - 10 November 2026

full, but we also know that what older people tell us is that they want to have care in their community, in their home. And so we need to keep investing in the availability of supported home programs, the Commonwealth Home Support Program, which is the foundational support to keep people well. And we need those services to be available in a timely manner. Now, we have seen some decreases in the waiting times for both assessments for those services and for access to those services, but they're still too long. We don't want to see anyone waiting more than four weeks. And a lot of people can go back home after a hospital stay if those services are readily available and timely and they meet their needs. And things like home modifications and assistive technologies and getting the right level of care that people can afford are all things that will keep people well in the community and that's what older people tell us that they. 00:06:37 Speaker 4: Want to do. 00:06:39 Speaker 1: Craig Geer, thanks for your time today. CEO of Older Persons Advocacy Network. Joining us now is Chris Christ, CEO of National Seniors Australia. Chris, good morning. Good morning, Graeme. How do you react to the Salvation Army withdrawing from aged care? 00:06:53 Speaker 6: Well, this is, I mean, obviously for the individual, this anxiety, I guess, in terms of what, whilst there's a supposed plan in place from an individual perspective for the residents and their families, there would be anxiety. And this is a concerning development in regard to if you've got an organisation that's fundamentally been in existence for 100 years and it's been built around care and they can't get it to work, there's obviously something significantly wrong there. And whilst, yes, they have a plan in place, clearly there is an issue with funding for residential aged care and basically receiving funding enough support from government to maintain the care system. 00:07:44 Speaker 1: I mean, this is a federal government issue. Obviously, they're just not doing enough at the moment. 00:07:49 Speaker 6: Well, clearly, from the contribution perspective to providers, and I know that last month, you know, there was 100 or so providers that went to Canberra, went to Parliament House and met with. 00:08:05 Speaker 6: Parliamentary Friends of Seniors group in terms of putting their case forward to explain that the annex funding, which is where funds are provided by the federal government to support residential aged care, that it clearly wasn't enough from the point of view of that you're seeing wage increases as quite rightly should be in place for aged care workers. inflation in the mid to late threes, but the increase is only 2.55%. So there's a squeeze on these providers. They're saying that one in three are not profitable. And so we're hoping that we're not going to see that this Salvation Army announcement is not the first of a number of announcements. The sector does not need this. We need the confidence. There's some great people working in the sector. We need to get behind them and support them and make sure that our older Australians are appropriately cared for. 00:09:07 Speaker 1: Chris Grice, good to chat. Thanks for your time. CEO of the National Seniors Australia. Well, Steve Speziali from the Salvation Army joins us now. Steve, I think it's fair to say this has rocked the aged care sector because we've always associated the Salvos with being in that sector and it's something that you just can't continue with for financial reasons. 00:09:28 Speaker 3: Good morning, Graeme. Good to be with you. I think we've made a decision on a number of considerations. Everyone's living with economic pressures, financial pressures, and they move with the times. Obviously, as an owner-operator of centres, we have the responsibility for 19 sites around Australia, some with more than one facility of upkeep. That's certainly a big part of what we've considered over the next 10 years of being able to internally facilitate. the upkeep and even expansion of facilities. Yes, your previous caller just mentioned the costs that are associated with operating and We've considered that over time. A lot of the costs are identified as having to do with regulatory environments as well. Salvation Army is very used to working in highly regulated environments and the ability to deliver in those structures, whether we're doing family and domestic violence responses, homelessness responses, alcohol and other drugs, or youth and young adults. We operate in a highly regulated environment, so it's not foreign to us at all. The decision around aged care, Graeme, is that we've looked at the next 10 years and we've had to make a decision that is not just in the interest of the Salvation Army's sustainability. but also for those in aged care, in residential aged care, who ask us to provide that service for them, are we best positioned to do that well into the future? And so we've reached that decision and we'll not rush. We'll go to the market early in 2027 and we will stay with our current aged care residents for as long as is required. 00:11:18 Speaker 1: I think the concerning thing from an external point of view is if If the Salvation Army can't make it work, what does it mean for the other providers? 00:11:29 Speaker 3: Hard for us to make comment on that, to be frank, Graeme, because we have our own, I guess, requirements out of the operation. We try to offer... you know, affordable aged care in a residential setting. We do it for many people who wanted to be with us because of our Christian ethos, because of the work of the Salvation Army over decades and what it means to them and the value that they see in that, as well as the affordability factors for many as well. You know, we've obviously reached a point in time having probably halved our aged care, residential aged care holdings, about 20 years ago, where we've had to, again, review the sustainability of that

from a Salvation Army perspective. And just to add that we obviously, as a provider of affordable residential aged care, we structure so that we can make a modest surplus, as we call it, and then the funds are turned back into... those community responses, um, that I mentioned a little bit earlier, hardship from financial circumstances, um, alcohol and other drugs services, um, and, and the like and family domestic violence. So that's how it sits in our, in our, in our world. And so we have, we have those, those requirements and settings around it. So we're not, we're not a regular participant, I think, um, in the broader market. 00:12:57 Speaker 1: Steve Speziale, thanks for your time. Salvation Army, uh, withdrawing from aged care. And it's a sector that, I mean, the warning signs have been coming for a long, long time. We've all known that the baby boomers are moving into the aged care sector and the needs were going to grow and grow and grow. And successive governments have not acknowledged the fact and not put spending necessarily in the right area. The figures are damning. The number of older people in hospital waiting for residential aged care funding In September, more than 3,600. That was up from 2,700 in mid-2025. The numbers are growing. Here in South Australia, the numbers surpassed 500 in October, which is the equivalent of knocking out an entire hospital. Now, the crisis has reached such a level that health ministers from every state and territory, evidently barring New South Wales, have called for urgent action from the federal government on the aged care bed crisis. The talks, it would appear, to have been generated by our Premier Peter Malinowskis, and they will be hosted here. 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 27 to 10 on 5AA. We have a Dilmar gift to pack to give away worth $ 56 to a random caller. It could be you. 8223 0000 is the number to ring. Well, working from home was supposed to help solve Australia's baby drought. More flexibility, less commuting, more family time. Surely that would encourage people to have children. Joining me now is MacRindle Research founder, Mark MacRindle. Mark, good morning. Thanks for your time. No, thanks, Frank. Has working from home had an impact on the birth rate? 00:14:40 Speaker 7: No impact in raising it at all. The birth rate continues to slide. We're, along with last year's birth rate, sitting at an all-time low. And it's sort of the same as COVID. People also thought, oh, well, COVID and lockdowns, that's going to lead to a boost in the birth rate. It didn't do it either because it's not that people don't have enough time. It's particularly financial challenges. That's the reason that we're seeing couples delay starting families, have smaller families or not have children at all. 00:15:10 Speaker 1: And there's no question that you have to take finances into account. It's all well and good, you know, for saying we're going to start a family, but we need a house or we need some level of security. And people, I think it's fair to say, aren't feeling all that secure at the moment. Yeah, that's exactly right. And, you know, there is a key factor in this. 00:15:27 Speaker 7: It's not just the earnings, but it's earning enough so that one of the partners, and it still tends to be the mum, can stay home and raise the children. And so working from home, even if you've got both jobs, are parties working from home. 00:15:42 Speaker 1: They're working. That's the point. 00:15:43 Speaker 7: They don't have the time to raise the children or to look after those young ones there. But if you have a couple situation where one can be largely there raising the children, particularly in those early years, that's what gets the equation right. But the big problem is if you're dropping one income and you're relying on one income, pretty hard to pay off a mortgage or get a house or pay the normal bills. That's where the problem comes, that the situation has changed. One income doesn't do it anymore. And so that's why we're seeing these record low birth rates. 00:16:14 Speaker 1: Is there any sign showing that couples are just putting off having children until later in life or just saying, uh-uh, we're not going to have kids at all? 00:16:23 Speaker 7: Yes, that is the general trend, Graeme, is that it's a delayed family forming. So the latest data came out just a week ago from the ABS, and it shows that parents are the oldest that they've ever been. So the age of a woman giving birth now is 32 years of age. So while her mum might have had her... would have on average well into the 20s, perhaps even the mid-20s, now it's early 30s, and that's just because it takes that long for a couple to save up to get a bit of a foothold on the property ladder. Couples don't want to rent when they start children and start families. They want the security of home ownership, and so they've pushed that back into the 30s, and that means that they're still having children but having fewer of them, and many times they might have wanted more, but they just run out of time in that biological sense. 00:17:13 Speaker 1: Are there any signs that the traditional idea of marriage, home ownership and starting a family are fundamentally changing? Well, there's still strong desires. 00:17:23 Speaker 7: We survey generations ahead all the time, those in their 20s, and the number one goal that they have or hope is to be able to afford their own home because that becomes the foundation then to start a family, to have that security financially, to feel that you've got something to pay down and move ahead. And it still is the basis for the nest egg of retirement as well. But the longer that couples can't get that foothold in a place of their own, the more they're likely to consider whether they can start a family or indeed push that back. And there are things that the government can do in this, not just reducing the cost of homes, but even considering what do parents want these days

or would-be parents? And one of those, again, is, well, can we get a bit of a financial advantage if one wants to raise kids or is out of the workforce? 00:18:12 Speaker 1: What can be done? 00:18:13 Speaker 7: It's not just that they want paid childcare or parental leave. Income splitting is one of those things where maybe one can be the owner, get a reduced tax rate, which might make it possible for the other to stay at home or start a family. There are other policies as well, but anything that can be done to help young couples get the finances right so that they can start a family is certainly going to do this nation a favour. 00:18:37 Speaker 1: What are the major issues with our ever-falling birth rate? 00:18:42 Speaker 7: Well, the first is the ageing population, and we've got the oldest average age in our population ever. The intergenerational report, which came out a month ago, shows that by the time we hit, in four decades' time, just drawing the forecast based on these trends that we're seeing, we won't have natural increase anymore. 00:19:00 Speaker 1: We'll have natural decrease. 00:19:01 Speaker 7: That is, in that year, there'll be more deaths than births. We'll be 100% reliant on migration for any population increase and, indeed, labour growth. And with an ageing population, you get increasing costs, healthcare costs, pension costs. 00:19:16 Speaker 1: Aged care costs. 00:19:18 Speaker 7: And what you need is therefore increasing government revenues to cover those costs. But right at the time we've got an ageing population with increasing costs, we've got a smaller proportion of our workforce in the income tax paying base. and having to pay more to fund the ageing. And so we need to balance that. We need, indeed, more workers that can meet the needs and pay the tax and really keep the economy and the workforce going. And so that's the problem we have. People living longer, fantastic news. Not enough young people coming through. That's where the challenge is. Looks like we're heading for the perfect storm. 00:19:53 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so. 00:19:54 Speaker 7: And I think that rather than say, well, this declining birth rate, it is what it is and we just have to accept it, or just leaning on migration to solve all our problems, which it won't because it doesn't particularly reduce the average age compared to a birth, and nor does it provide that next generation of children. It's purely plugging workforce gaps in the current time. I think that there are some solutions. Government can look at policies. We've seen baby bonuses in the past have an impact. We see that around the world. Singapore has brought one in. You've got policies in places like Poland where if a woman has a child under 30 years of age, She pays no income tax for the rest of her life. Now, that's a barbecue stopper. There are things that can be done to encourage this. But the point is young couples are doing the nation a favor and the future a favor if they start

families. And I think that if we can do what we can to encourage that or just give them a bit of a leg up, that's certainly going to help. 00:20:52 Speaker 1: So by what you're saying, this falling birth rate is not just in Australia. It appears to be a worldwide trend. 00:20:58 Speaker 7: It sure is, and particularly, you know, as education rates rise, as we move to knowledge economy, as costs rise, you end up with people having fewer children and working more, and that's the pathway that we're on. But, you know, society is the basic building block of a nation, and our communities are our families, and obviously having a pro-family approach where that goal, like through time immemorial, Couples can grow up and say, hey, I want to start a family myself. 00:21:27 Speaker 1: Should it be their choice? 00:21:29 Speaker 7: They shouldn't be stopped from doing that just because the metrics or the finances make it too difficult. 00:21:34 Speaker 1: Back in 2004, Peter Costello introduced the baby bonus. I think it was about $ 3, 000, one for mum, one for dad, and one for the country. Do you reckon that would work again? 00:21:45 Speaker 7: Well, it worked then, and you're right in pointing that out, Graeme, because the birth rate had been dropping for a decade. It got down to 1.7. In comes the baby bonus. Over the next 10 years, it not only stopped, it rose, it increased. It got back to basically replacement rates, a little over two babies per couple, which on average then replaces the population. 00:22:05 Speaker 1: Since then, that was wound back. 00:22:07 Speaker 7: It got to about $ 8, 000 at its peak or when it was wound down. And we've got well below the 1.7 that was the panic stations that brought it in. Now we're down to 1.49. So we're well below that. But it did in recent history show that it can have an impact. Now, I don't think $ 8, 000 is going to turn the dial at the moment. 00:22:28 Speaker 1: It might have to be a bit more. 00:22:29 Speaker 7: Singapore's got in Australian dollars about $ 60, 000. that paid over the 18-year lifetime of that child and paid in instalments. But nonetheless, I think there could be some new ways, some creative ways, some supportive ways that might help change the equation. And the other thing that it did back then is not even just the monetary side. It was having a treasurer, as you said, say, look, this is a national duty. You are doing the nation a favour. This is not just taxpayer payments for the making the investment by covering the costs. You're helping the future for the next 70, 80 years. And so the taxpayer in the short term ought to help you out a little. And that was a strong message to would-be families as well. 00:23:15 Speaker 1: But working from home has had no impact. 00:23:18 Speaker 7: No, it's got to be a bit more than that just to turn it around. 00:23:22 Speaker 1: Mark, always great to chat. Thanks for your time today. MacRindle Research Founder, Demographer, Mark MacRindle. What are your thoughts, folks? Should we bring back the baby bonus? It was $ 3, 000 back in 2004. As Mark said, it got up to about. 00:23:37 Speaker 3: $ 8, 000. 00:23:37 Speaker 1: Singapore, $ 60, 000 over the life of the child of being up to 18. So as a parent, would that, or a prospective parent, would that be an incentive enough for you? And is it the right motivation? Now, mind you, if you really want to have kids and just can't afford it, well, money would help you. You're not having kids just because of the money. And that's the negative side of it. You'll hear people sort of say, yeah, well, we don't want people having three or four kids just to get the money and spend it on TVs and trips away and money on the pokies. We don't want that at all. 8223 0000 is the number. Love to hear your comments and thoughts. 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. Well, comedian and actor Russell Brand has been sentenced to a long term in jail. Joining us now is Seven News Europe correspondent Jacqueline Robson. Jacqueline, good morning to you. 00:24:31 Speaker 8: Brian, hello. 00:24:32 Speaker 1: It's late at night on your time, obviously. 00:24:36 Speaker 9: It is quite late, but I'm still buzzed by an incredible, I guess, scene that happened at court today. Russell Brand sentenced to 10 and a half years behind bars for raping one woman and sexually abusing three others. There was an incredible media scrum as his wife, Laura, left the courthouse. She said very little, nothing in fact, but his father, Ron Russell, as he left the court, He decided to speak on how he feels about this result, and he claimed that his son was the victim in all of this. It was incredible that he was going on to say that women were throwing themselves at him, and he does not trust the justice system, so quite the development in court today. 00:25:26 Speaker 1: I mean, you can understand a parent supporting their child, but, I mean, that's probably going... come out and say he is the victim is probably going a little bit too far. 00:25:35 Speaker 8: Oh, yeah, absolutely. 00:25:36 Speaker 9: And these four women who suffered at the hands of Russell Brand gave really powerful victim impact statements that were read out to the court during the sentencing too about how his actions have caused lasting impacts on them. One woman said that she was unable to sleep or eat after the crime. Another woman said that she couldn't physically. 00:26:01 Speaker 8: look at him. 00:26:01 Speaker 9: She was seeing him on the television and she felt sick that the world was celebrating him as a comedian who made these vulgar jokes about women knowing that he had sexually abused her. 00:26:13 Speaker 1: What has been the local reaction to a 10-year sentence? Does everyone think that's more than adequate, a surprising amount? What's the feeling? 00:26:22 Speaker 9: Well, the judge had warned when Russell was found guilty that that there would be a considerable prison term awaiting. So we were expecting that it

would be sometime. Ten years, I think, was at the higher end. 00:26:37 Speaker 8: Of what most journalists were expecting to see. 00:26:40 Speaker 9: I think it was really heartening to see that, given the length that these women went to to put their story forward. They felt pressured and scared to come forward, you know, 20 years later now speaking their truth. because they were afraid they wouldn't be believed, and this jury unanimously believed them delivering those guilty verdicts. 00:27:03 Speaker 1: Did Brand show any level of contrition or sorrow or guilt? 00:27:07 Speaker 9: No, he was very unemotional. No reaction when his sentence was handed down, nor did he react when he was found guilty. He gave his own evidence in his trial and his defence, essentially saying that women would always throw themselves at him, that everything. 00:27:24 Speaker 8: He did was consensual. 00:27:25 Speaker 9: The judge today said they were flat-out liars. and that he was a sexual predator that used his fame to lure women in and then do what he wanted, when he wanted, because of his celebrity status. So it has been leading bulletins here in the UK, and there was the world's media at court today. There was New Zealand journalists, Canadian journalists, German journalists. There was quite the contingent of media out the front of court. 00:27:53 Speaker 1: Is he expected to appeal the sentence? 00:27:55 Speaker 9: No, he's not expected to appeal the sentence that's done. He is eligible for parole after serving two-thirds of his sentence, so the very minimum that he'll be behind bars is seven years. His defence asked for some leniency during sentencing because he has three children aged three to ten and asked for leniency because he would not see them grow up in those important years. And the judge flat out refused that and said if he hadn't committed such serious crimes, then these children would not be without a father. 00:28:29 Speaker 1: Is it so that there could be two further cases pending? 00:28:33 Speaker 9: Yes, the Metropolitan Police are investigating two other allegations of rape from two separate women. They haven't revealed much about the investigation so far, but they have spoken in front of court twice now, appealing for other potential victims to come forward. So I think they hope that these guilty verdicts and this sentence gives people out there some confidence that they will be believed because that was such a common thing excuse for not coming forward sooner, that people felt afraid that they wouldn't be believed, they're now asking people to find the confidence to speak up. 00:29:10 Speaker 1: Yeah, that might open the floodgates. 00:29:11 Speaker 10: It could. 00:29:13 Speaker 1: Jacqueline, thanks so much for your time. Thanks for your report. That's Seven News Europe correspondent Jacqueline Robson, who was at the courthouse for the monumental finding. Russell Brand sentenced to 10 years and six months, was it? Could be out after seven,

but there are two further cases pending. From the text line, hi, Graham. The problem with the last baby bonus was we had generational unemployed families having babies. This is in the long term costing more in men. health. It would be better to give the people who have been married at least two years, and this doesn't mean they won't split up, obviously. Thank you for that, Jamie. Tanya says, nor did they factor the impact of ageing in place on the housing market. As the elderly migrated to nursing homes, housing stock became available. Now they're staying in their property much longer. we're not seeing the same turnover. And Judith says, with housing shrinking and becoming more dense and expensive, no backyards, why would people want to have children? I'd be interested to hear from young people who, I mean, it's the normal thing. You get into a healthy, happy relationship and you've got a reasonable income coming in and most young couples would like to start a family. So What is stopping you? What are the major barriers? Now, the cost of living, obviously, that is a burden and a hurdle. And how secure is your employment? How easy or difficult is it to get somewhere to live? Can you pay your power bills? I mean, there's lots of things. You don't want to bring a child into this world if you're not sure of where your next dollar or meal is coming from. That is obviously going to make people think twice about having a family. But if you're listening and contemplating having a family... Give us a call. Tell us what is stopping you or why are you going ahead? Do you feel comfortable at the moment with the situation with the economy? I mean, you've got to take those things into consideration. There's no question about that. GG, re-declining birth rates. Let's think about this logically. With the number of immigrants that have come to Australia in the last three or four years, there'll be more than enough children. I'm sure the average immigrant has more than two children, and I suspect at a much younger age than your average Australian. 00:31:25 Speaker 4: 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 00:31:30 Speaker 1: Well, as you've heard throughout the morning on 5AA News and in our breakfast program, Todd Russell, one of the two miners who spent two weeks trapped in a kilometre underground after the Beaconsfield mine disaster in Tasmania, has died. The mine collapsed in 2006. Frantic efforts to save Todd Russell and Brad Webb made world headlines. Rescuers, in fact, worked for two weeks to reach them when they finally brought them to the surface. David Koch and Mel Doyle were co-hosts of the Sunrise program at the time and were on the scene when they came to the surface. 00:32:00 Speaker 8: Mate, you took your time. 00:32:02 Speaker 11: How are you? 00:32:03 Speaker 12: Good to see you. 00:32:04 Speaker 11: How are you feeling? 00:32:06 Speaker 12: Are you sure? 00:32:08 Speaker 13: Are you sure? 00:32:08 Speaker 9: Mate, I appreciate that. 00:32:12 Speaker

12: Just wonderful. I'm never going to lose needed again. 00:32:19 Speaker 14: That is fantastic. 00:32:21 Speaker 1: Good on you, mate. 00:32:24 Speaker 12: Todd, we'll have a beer, big fella. We'll catch up and have a beer. 00:32:27 Speaker 14: Thanks, Gossie. 00:32:28 Speaker 15: Thanks, Bill. 00:32:29 Speaker 4: Let's go. He wants a hug. He wants a hug from her. 00:32:33 Speaker 8: Give him a hug in long distance. 00:32:37 Speaker 1: Look at this. 00:32:39 Speaker 8: This is... This is. 00:32:40 Speaker 1: He is such. 00:32:42 Speaker 4: He is such an amazing bloke. 00:32:46 Speaker 1: What a remarkable story. Joining us now is Mel Doyle, former Sunrise co-host, now part of the Nova Entertainment family. Mel, that must bring back some memories for you. 00:32:55 Speaker 8: Oh, Graeme, it makes me teary listening. 00:32:57 Speaker 16: Um. 00:32:58 Speaker 8: Yeah, it wasn't an incredible moment. I think we all remember where we were and watching it. It was, you know, one of those stories I think just absolutely captured us all because of just the sheer, I think the sheer horror of what the men were going through and then just waiting with bated breath of, you know, will we get them out alive? And gosh, we were all glued. 00:33:19 Speaker 14: Yeah. 00:33:20 Speaker 8: Kashi and I in particular, because we were there with an enormous media contingent covering it, but it was definitely one of those stories that, wow, it's taken me right back. 00:33:29 Speaker 1: So I believe they came to the surface in the early hours of the morning. How did you come to be there at that time? Because you couldn't spend your 24 hours a day there. 00:33:37 Speaker 8: No, although I did a couple of times. I slept in the link truck because we'd got word that it was imminent they were coming out. 00:33:44 Speaker 10: Look, it's an interesting story. 00:33:45 Speaker 8: When we first flew down on the Sunday night, when they had first made contact with the miners. I met a lovely guy by the name of Peter James on the side of the road and he's come over and he said hi and, you know, I love the show, blah, blah, blah. He said, my wife's a big fan. How would you feel if I rang her and could you say hello? So he rings up his wife, Christine, and we had a chat. And at the end of the phone call, he said to me, oh, by the way, I'm a paramedic and I'm on call and give me a number. And if I get word, I'll give you a buzz. So it was Peter that rang me at something like 2 a.m. on the day they came out, woke me up and said, I've just had the call. Get down there now. So, of course, I've rung the crew and messaged everyone and woken them up. And we've run to the site and put the link up. And sure enough, they'd found them and they came out. Yeah, lovely of Peter to let us know, but it was just, you know, gosh, it had been a really incredibly long wait for families, for everybody who just, you know, held their breath, but none more so, obviously, than, you know, Todd and Brant. But we'd, yeah, we, gosh, you know, I used to go and spend the mornings after we came off air with Todd's mum and dad, the Russell family, which is lovely, and we, you know, forged a friendship and just did it quietly, obviously with no cameras and just hanging out with them. And I think we just got to know the family really well. And it was one of those stories where I can honestly say I just got so emotionally invested in what was going to happen, which isn't always a good thing as a journalist, but that was one where I think every ounce of us was just there and immersed and just hopeful like everybody. But Yeah, it definitely was very personal in the end. 00:35:34 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it captured the interest of the world. I mean, there were media crews from all around the world. I mean, it went on for two weeks. I guess at times you must have thought, you know, this is not going to end well. 00:35:45 Speaker 8: Yeah, well, obviously, you know, Larry Knight didn't survive, which was so tragic. And I think the whole story had that tinge of knowing that Larry's family was grieving for his loss, yet there was still two lives there. Could they come out? Could they be okay? And, you know, I'm sure like you, like all of us, when I think about what was actually happening underground, you know, they're a kilometre down in this little tiny cage with, I think, you know, one muesli bar between them. And I can't even imagine what that would do for your mind. 00:36:18 Speaker 1: I mean, it was in total darkness too. Can you imagine that? I mean, you would lose all sense of reality. I don't know about you, but I would have gone insane, I reckon, within 24 hours. 00:36:27 Speaker 4: Totally. 00:36:29 Speaker 8: Oh, I'm with you. I think so. And, you know, so they eventually had a pipe leading down and they were able to pass notes down. And, you know, that was one of the things that Koshi was doing was sending jokes down because he used to do a joke of the day on the show. You know, as you probably heard, but they were pumping music to them, like anything so that they knew that the world was in contact with them and hang in there, we're doing everything we can. But yeah, I can't even imagine how you would just mentally survive that, let alone the impact on them physically. So the fact that when they came out, they walked out is, you know, quite extraordinary. But, you know, I just think it's just one of those things, isn't it, the bravery that it took, not just for them to get through it, but all of the rescuers that were working day and night to try and come up with different scenarios of how to reach them, how to get to them quicker and how to make sure that they didn't create more damage underground than necessary and make sure that they survived and bring them out. So, yeah, I always think of the logistics and of all the people, you know, from emergency workers to the rest of the miners to... the engineers, to everybody. And then the whole town came

together. You know, I remember we met this beautiful lady who was volunteering. She was feeding people. Like there was not just media. There was obviously a lot of media there, but there was a lot of locals and people had gathered just to find out what was happening. And they were feeding people and, you know, just the whole community was a part of this. And as you say, then it was also worldwide. It was an extraordinary community. but an extraordinary effort of everybody involved to get those two men out. 00:38:11 Speaker 1: There must have been a fear all along that the mine could collapse further. I think it was triggered by an earthquake, not a particularly big one, but it was enough to, you know, cause the collapse. So there must have been fears that, hmm, what if there's another one? 00:38:23 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 00:38:24 Speaker 8: And I guess you don't know how loose the rest of the ground is. And, you know, they'd made their way into this little, I think it was like a cage off the back of one of the vehicles. So they sort of had a little bit of a shelter over them that was, you know, protecting them from further cave-ins. But, you know, if they blocked off the path that they were using to get to them, then God knows what would have happened. So just, you know, incredibly lucky, but like I say, incredible work done by all of those experts that were making sure they could get them out safely. 00:38:55 Speaker 1: You've covered many stories as a journalist and on Sunrise. Where would this one rank? 00:39:00 Speaker 8: Oh, you know, there's some that I think have just... seeped into my consciousness that, you know, I look at pictures or I think about being there and it just takes me immediately back. And this was definitely one of those. I remember, you know, it was the first time I'd cried on air for a story. And at the time I was mortified, you know, I felt so unprofessional doing that. It's not my job. I'm a journalist. I'm in a report, but I'd been sleeping in the back of the truck. We were all so exhausted. We were all so emotionally invested in this that when they came out, I think that sense of relief that everybody felt was just overwhelming. So yeah, for me, it's one of those ones that's just, you know, yeah, it stayed with me and will forever. and knowing that we all felt the same. You know, I think what a privilege as a journalist to be there for a moment like that. But yeah, it's definitely impacted me and Will forever. 00:39:59 Speaker 1: Well, it's a sad day, the passing of Todd Russell, but a momentous time in Australia's history. 00:40:05 Speaker 17: Yes. 00:40:05 Speaker 8: And, you know, look, tribute to his family and everybody that rallied around both him and Brandt, because these two men went through an extraordinarily horrific and frightening ordeal. And I think it goes to show the power of community, of rallying around when people need you. And I think that's probably one of the things that I took away more than anything of what an amazing community around Beaconsfield, Tasmania, Australia. Doesn't that show the best of us when something like that happens that we all rally around. So, yeah, I think that was my biggest takeaway. 00:40:41 Speaker 1: Mel, thanks so much for sharing the story with us today. 00:40:43 Speaker 8: Thanks, Graeme. 00:40:44 Speaker 1: Mel Doyle, former Sunrise co-host who was on the scene of the Beaconfield disaster. She's part of the Nova Entertainment family. 00:40:52 Speaker 4: 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 00:40:55 Speaker 1: 19 past 10, your calls in a moment on 8223 0000. Firstly, on the text line. Hi, Graeme, my father recently had a procedure of the RAH. Being the conversationalist he is, he struck up a conversation with one of the younger registered nurses. She told him she had to return to work three months after giving birth due to financial pressures and would like to have more children, but was unsure if, as a couple, they could financially afford it. Thank you for that, Dan. I think that would be an all-too-familiar story. Jim, good morning. 00:41:25 Speaker 14: Good morning, Graeme. I just want to remind people, no disrespect to the families and the survivors and the community in Beaconsfield, what happened there, but the same time of year, Graham, remember back to Gladstone, the Quinn Investment Emissions. 00:41:39 Speaker 3: Factory went bang and we lost three fellas. 00:41:41 Speaker 14: We lost Damien and Darren and young Matthew up there in between Gladstone and Allura, Beetaloo Valley. 00:41:48 Speaker 4: That's right. 00:41:49 Speaker 8: That was on the 6th of May, that was. 00:41:50 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:41:50 Speaker 14: And that was pretty hard on the community up there. 00:41:54 Speaker 1: Yes, you reminded me about that, Jim. We tend to forget some of these things, don't we? And that probably, well, it didn't get the notoriety and international coverage of Beaconsfield. 00:42:03 Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah. 00:42:04 Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, that was, I could see why it was overshadowed, but it sounds terrible to say it, but they've nearly been forgotten about by what happened there. 00:42:13 Speaker 6: It's terrible to say that. 00:42:15 Speaker 1: No, well, our thoughts certainly go out to the family and friends and associates of those at Gladstone who lost their lives. And, yeah, that was back in 2006. 00:42:27 Speaker 5: May the 6th it was. 00:42:29 Speaker 14: While the world was waiting to see if we could get those boys out of the hole in the ground, I went bang there in the morning about 10 o'clock. I rang my partner. She was at work, and she was working with a bloke from Barabara. And his best mate was there. When I rung, he broke down because he thought he'd got burnt. 00:42:45 Speaker 5: Pretty bad, but he survived, you know. 00:42:48 Speaker 8: It was fairly hard. 00:42:49 Speaker 14: And, Graeme, on a light note, when you were talking about babies, you know what, the government could offer me a

million and I'd say no to having a baby. God bless women for going through that. 00:43:00 Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you what, if it was up to the men, Jim, I think the population would be declining far faster than it is. 00:43:07 Speaker 14: Not for all the tea in China. 00:43:08 Speaker 18: No way in the world. 00:43:09 Speaker 1: Good on you, Jim. Always great to chat. Let's go to Harry at Hallett Cove. Harry, how are you doing? 00:43:15 Speaker 19: G'day, Graeme. 00:43:16 Speaker 12: Yes, I'm still kicking and screaming. 00:43:17 Speaker 1: How about yourself? 00:43:18 Speaker 12: I hope you and the listeners are well. 00:43:19 Speaker 1: Oh, can't complain. 00:43:22 Speaker 18: Good. 00:43:22 Speaker 14: No worries. 00:43:23 Speaker 12: Graeme, in regards to the baby bonus, as you know, 2004 as against 2026, it's a very different population mix now. And I'm just about to tell my four wives... Sorry? 00:43:37 Speaker 1: Say that again? 00:43:38 Speaker 12: I'm just about to tell my four wives and 18 children, taxpayer-funded, that we're going now, we've got the AFL team, we're going for reserves now. We've got the full AFL team, all taxpayer-funded. Thanks a lot, you infidels. 00:43:53 Speaker 14: Thanks. 00:43:55 Speaker 1: Good on you, Harry. I just realised that you weren't totally serious, but thanks for that. Morning, Graeme. The government could offer me $ 100, 000 to have a baby, and I'm telling you I'd say no? Seriously, I only have one child who served for 17 years and has two lovely children, so I've done what I can for the country. Thanks for you and the producer. Thank you for that. Gary, good morning. 00:44:16 Speaker 9: Good morning, Graeme. 00:44:18 Speaker 20: Yes, we're talking about the cost of living and prices of everything going up. 00:44:23 Speaker 1: Yeah. 00:44:24 Speaker 20: The place to be is in Victoria. 00:44:26 Speaker 1: Oh, really? 00:44:27 Speaker 18: Yes, they've got plenty of money over there, no problems whatsoever. 00:44:31 Speaker 1: They've got plenty of debt, I know that. 00:44:33 Speaker 12: Well, they might have. 00:44:35 Speaker 20: Some more, but you heard the latest with Dan Andrews and Jacinta Allen, I suppose. 00:44:41 Speaker 1: No, tell me. 00:44:43 Speaker 20: Okay. So as you know, there's a big royal commission about the unions or the corruption over there. 00:44:49 Speaker 1: The big build, yeah. Yeah. 00:44:51 Speaker 20: Dan Andrews, the Victorian government, have given Dan Andrews three barristers, and Jacinta Allen is getting two barristers. all paid for by the, I said, Victorian government, which is taxpayers' money. So that's why I'm saying they must. 00:45:10 Speaker 18: Have plenty of money over there. I'm not sure why they can't have one each. 00:45:15 Speaker 20: I noticed the lady of the Liberal Party there said that. 00:45:19 Speaker 1: Jess Wilson. 00:45:21 Speaker 20: Yes, she said if she gets in the power, they'll be paying their own way. They've got, she said, they've got plenty

of money to... pay for a barrister themselves. So that's going to be interesting. 00:45:35 Speaker 12: That's if she wins power. 00:45:36 Speaker 14: Now, I don't know. 00:45:37 Speaker 20: It'll be interesting to see what happens. 00:45:39 Speaker 1: Well, judging by the most recent polls, Gary, there's no way that Labor's going to get back. 00:45:44 Speaker 18: Well, I think that's exactly, Graeme. This three barristers, like, well, perhaps I might be kind and say, look, we'll pay for one. But if you want two, three, four barristers, you're on your own. You pay your own way. 00:45:57 Speaker 2: Yeah. 00:45:58 Speaker 20: Like, Ben Carroll's not doing himself any favours by, you know, that's just unbelievable. And I think we'll wait and see what happens, but I think a lot won't come out of it. There'll be, even if anything happens, there'll be suspended sentences or, yeah, we'll have to watch this space. 00:46:17 Speaker 18: So that's why I'm saying they've got plenty of money over there to... And three barristers, well, five barristers. 00:46:23 Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, Victoria's debt, I think, is more than New South Wales and Queensland combined, and it's spiralling by the day. And if the Victorian government is paying for three barristers for the former Premier Dan Andrews and two for his follow-up, they've got a lot of money. Yeah, but what does a barrister cost a day? It's in the thousands, isn't it? And that would be for, you know, a long time, three months maybe. Got to love pollies. Keith, good morning. 00:46:52 Speaker 19: Good morning, Graeme. 00:46:54 Speaker 3: Hope you're well. 00:46:55 Speaker 1: Very well, thanks. 00:46:57 Speaker 16: Before I get to the issue, lady bonus, I'd like to pick an argument with people like I did with Pilko, and I won that argument. Russell Brand still has the right to appeal. 00:47:10 Speaker 1: Yes. 00:47:10 Speaker 16: And his conviction will be quashed upon appeal, just like Cardinal George Pels was. You know, Gilko had a hissy fit when I told him what would happen. And people can get angry with me, but at the end of the day, that gentleman saying that he doesn't have the right to appeal is wrong. I looked into it online. He is going to appeal. And he was convicted by the media. He may be a naughty boy, may be guilty, but the media is the one that influenced his conviction. 00:47:44 Speaker 1: So you're saying it influenced the judge? 00:47:46 Speaker 17: 100%. 00:47:49 Speaker 1: It's an interesting observation from thousands of kilometres away, Keith. What is your legal background? Nothing. 00:47:57 Speaker 16: I'll tell you something about Cardinal Pell. I was thousands of kilometres away from that as well, and when the Victorian judge convicted him, the High Court quashed that conviction, threw it out. Now, what I will say about the baby-blowners, In the end, the baby bonus was not being handed out to everybody in cash. It was being handed out with vouchers to buy things like prams, bassinets and baby stuff. 00:48:25 Speaker 1: Was it that way right from the start? 00:48:27 Speaker 5: No, it wasn't. 00:48:30 Speaker 1: No. 00:48:30 Speaker 16: They did find a lot, not a lot, some parents were having kids so they can get a big screen TV. Now, in the end, People who were at risk, they were not given the cash at all. They were given vouchers. 00:48:45 Speaker 8: In my opinion, it's. 00:48:47 Speaker 16: Going to be a lot cheaper in the long run to have our own babies, our own children and the government rather than Give out cash so they can give out vouchers for their children, into their education as well. Do a bit like Singapore. Don't give it in cash. That helps support them. I've met many people who can't afford to have kids. 00:49:07 Speaker 10: It is sad. 00:49:08 Speaker 16: It is really sad. But when you've got a house now that's worth a million dollars, but it's not really worth a million dollars, it should only be worth half that. I don't believe my house should. 00:49:18 Speaker 8: Be worth what it is. 00:49:20 Speaker 16: That's ridiculous. It's fake, how would I say, inflation. And there's a housing crash coming. What's his name? Mark Boris was saying it from Wizard Home Loans. 00:49:32 Speaker 10: 40% he's predicting. 00:49:33 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I tell you what, Keith, I hope he's wrong. I hope he's wrong because there are going to be so many people Not so much those that have had their houses for 5, 10, 15, 20 years because they've had built-in rises over the years. But anyone that's bought a house in the last two years, particularly if they've gone in on the 5% deposit, they're going to be feeling the pinch. Negative equity is a very, very scary thing. Regarding the baby bonus, a report, this is from E61 Institute. Tanya says the report summary says across every outcome we examined, we find no evidence that the additional children born because of the baby bonus experience worse early adult trajectories than children who would have been born regardless of the policy. The micro note mentions a slightly higher percentage of bonus babies started life in community housing, but claims it didn't translate to worse life outcomes. So there you have it. We're going to take a break for news headlines then after that. 5AA' s resident GP, Dr Emily Kirkpatrick, will be in the studio. Have any medical questions or queries? Now's the time to ring. 8223 0000 is the number. 00:50:37 Speaker 4: 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 00:50:39 Speaker 1: 28 minutes to 11, 5AA, this Tuesday morning. And being a Tuesday, my very great pleasure. Welcome to the studio, 5AA resident GP, Dr Emily Kirkpatrick. Doctor, good morning to you. 00:50:51 Speaker 21: Good morning, Graeme, to you and your listeners. 00:50:52 Speaker 1: Are you well? 00:50:53 Speaker 17: I am well, but sadly I've got a child who's sick at the moment with the virus, so there's definitely still a lot circulating around our schools, that's for certain. 00:51:01 Speaker

1: They're sort of unidentifiable, it would seem. I hear so many people getting things and they test for COVID and flu and RSV, you name it, and none of them show up. 00:51:10 Speaker 4: Nothing. 00:51:10 Speaker 17: And as you can imagine, my kids certainly get lots of nasal swabs in the house. So I'm always going, you know, threatening them with a swab. And in fact, of course, nothing comes back. So it is the reality of what we're seeing at the moment circulating in the community is just general, you know, cold viruses that we see circulating around. 00:51:26 Speaker 21: But of course. 00:51:27 Speaker 17: if you are getting more symptomatic, it is much more reliable to get one of the tests done through the laboratories rather than the chemist tests. 00:51:35 Speaker 1: So how long do these little bugs likely to last? How long can you be sick or should you stay home? 00:51:41 Speaker 17: Well, you should be staying home if you are symptomatic. So particularly in those early days of a virus, in those first three days, that's typically when you're most contagious, if you have one of the common cold viruses. And typically it's something like rhinovirus is one of the most common that we see circulating around. And then what we say generally to people is that sometimes you get this lingering cough for one to two weeks. And of course, you can't keep your kids home from school for that period of time and you can't advise patients to do that. So once you're feeling better, you know, less unwell than going back to school. 00:52:12 Speaker 1: 8223 0000 is the number to ring if you have a query to ask Dr. Emily Kirkpatrick. Maybe it's something that you're a little bit embarrassed to ask your doctor. Maybe you're sort of You know, you've got a good friendly relationship and you think, oh, dear, oh, dear, I don't really want my doctor to know this. Well, Dr. Emily Kirkpatrick, we're all friends here and you can remain anonymous. Give us a call, 8223 0000 is the number to ring. Something I do want to ask you about peanut allergies. I mean, you know, when I was a kid, we never heard of things like peanut allergies. They're very prevalent now, but there's been some interesting research on peanut allergies. 00:52:45 Speaker 17: Yes, what's been really interesting about peanut allergies is there's a large study that's just come out of Murdoch Children's Research Institute. And in fact, the Women's and Children's Health Network here in South Australia was one of the research sites. And what it has shown is that when you test in a child who has a diagnosis of a peanut allergy, you essentially do a challenge test to see, you know, are they still maintaining the allergy? 00:53:07 Speaker 2: And in fact, a. 00:53:08 Speaker 17: Third of children who are part of that very large study You know, over a thousand children were part of this study, in fact, showed from the third of them that they didn't have a reaction to peanuts at that point in time. So what that tells us, Graeme, is many things. The first is it tells us as well that there's an absolute role to doing challenge tests or doing supervised under medical supervision tests around seeing whether an allergy is still present or not. But also at the same time, it tells us that potentially we might be having a misdiagnosis of some children who may not have actually had a true peanut allergy at the time, but was thought or diagnosed by a GP, diagnosed by a paediatrician, and then later determined not to in fact be an allergy. But it is one of those things that often I'll get asked about as a GP. I'll have quite worried parents saying to me, oh, I've got a family member who's had a peanut allergy or one of my other kids. At what point in time do you start to test and start giving your child paediatricians you know, their first exposure to peanuts. And so what I tend to say to mothers and fathers coming in with their babies is say, as soon as your child is starting on solids and feeling comfortable with solids, it's slowly then introducing smaller bouts of peanut butter. Often it's thinned down either with breast milk or formula just so that it can be not as thick and gluggy for a child to then start to taste and start to put that on their skin as well. 00:54:28 Speaker 1: What are the early signs of an allergy? 00:54:30 Speaker 17: Oh, what we tend to see is often it can be this redness that starts to emerge and you get this sort of itchiness as well, a bit of discomfort. I've seen some parents put a bit of peanut butter on the hands of their children as well, just thinking, okay, is that going to do anything? Is that going to be this full-blown reaction and therefore redness, irritation? But of course, we then get right down to the severe end of allergies when we start to get anaphylactic reactions. And of course, That's where we see nausea, vomiting, when we see gastrointestinal impacts, and then, of course, breathing difficulties, which is in those severe cases. 00:55:02 Speaker 21: So important if you do. 00:55:04 Speaker 17: Have a family member or another child, having a chat with your GP and saying, look, we've had a peanut allergy in the family. How do we slowly expose my child safely? And then what testing is available for them as well? 00:55:16 Speaker 1: So can some people grow out of an allergy, a peanut allergy? 00:55:20 Speaker 17: Absolutely, they can. And that's why it's important to have options like testing to see if in fact someone does have a true allergy, if they've maintained the allergy. And we see the same thing across a number of areas, such as eggs, for instance. Egg allergy is one of those other common ones, Graeme, where I get parents that will come in and put a bit of egg on the skin as well. And, you know, I remember I've had a colleague tell me about one of their patients once who would, you know, always park in front of the women's and children's at North Adelaide, you know, test them with a bit of egg and see what would

happen, you know, so you're close to the emergency department, of course. 00:55:51 Speaker 21: Listeners, please don't do that. 00:55:53 Speaker 17: But it is something to be mindful of is that there's a lot of anxiety about food allergies. 00:55:58 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. 00:55:59 Speaker 17: And a lot of great information on the ASCIA, which is the Allergy Association website, who were part of this study that's shown that, in fact, not all peanut allergies may be true peanut allergies. 00:56:10 Speaker 1: Speaking of, and you mentioned egg allergies, we have a granddaughter who has an egg allergy and You take her out and you go to a little cafe or something like that. Is there any egg or anything like that? You've got to ask on every sort of single thing that eggs can appear in, and eggs appear in a lot of different foods. 00:56:28 Speaker 17: Yes, it's becoming harder and harder. We know there's more allergies emerging. And even in my own patient base, I've seen such an increase in celiac disease, for instance. And we have to always be mindful of when people do go out and they're eating that it can be really hard around contamination of foods. And in particular now, of course, we know that there's that risk around nuts, not just peanuts, but all sorts of nuts as well that you may have a particular exposure to. So keeping of course an EpiPen nearby and I spoke a few months ago on the program about how we've got the nasal sprays now available as well so there's different options that are starting to come to make it easier for people to manage their severe allergies in the community. 00:57:04 Speaker 1: We'll take a call now but after the call I want to ask you or find the reasoning that there seem to be more allergies now or does it just seem like it so we'll we'll talk about that shortly but firstly let's take a call. Janina good morning. 00:57:17 Speaker 11: Good morning how are you? 00:57:19 Speaker 1: Good thanks. Good. 00:57:21 Speaker 11: Doctor, I just want to ask you a question about the COVID-19 vaccination. Did the government or anybody from the government department notify you directly about the recommendations that were published on the 3rd of June 2025 by the government and the immunisation handbook was amended accordingly and saying that the COVID-19 vaccine, I'm reading this off their website, is not recommended for healthy infants, children or adolescents who don't have a medical condition because that increases their risk of a severe illness. 00:57:59 Speaker 22: This is because the risk of severe illness was extremely low in this cohort over the course of the pandemic and benefits of vaccination are not considered to outweigh the potential harms. 00:58:14 Speaker 8: Now, I go to chemists and ask. 00:58:15 Speaker 11: Them if they've been notified and the majority of them have got no idea about this and they're still giving the vaccine to any 18-year-old that wants to come in and have it. 00:58:25 Speaker 8: So were you actually,

my question is to you, were you. 00:58:28 Speaker 16: Actually notified of this by the government? 00:58:30 Speaker 17: That's a great question, Janina, because there are so many changes that often do come into immunisation programs and in particular vaccines. As we know, the COVID-19 immunisation program has gone through a number of changes, in particular around intervals and when it is to be given. Certainly there is advice that is sent out to all GPs. In fact, we're very fortunate that the RACGP, as the peak body for general practitioners here in Australia, did send out and continues to send out regular advice on a weekly basis. We have a Friday fax that comes out that includes around changes such as when vaccine timelines have changed and in particular around the changes that came into place now around children not being offered the COVID-19 vaccine. Of course, we know that there were many changes that happened through that vaccine program and it is important that as GPs you stay on top of this, but also we're very reliant on the peak bodies to send that information out to GPs to make sure they're across it. And I would expect the same as well with the Pharmacy Guild as well, the PSA who oversee pharmaceutical and pharmacist-based vaccinations to be providing that advice as well. So certainly, Janina, I was aware of that and I would expect that other healthcare providers would also be across that information as well. It's a great question as we see lots of changes in those types of programs. 00:59:48 Speaker 1: Janina, thanks so much for your call. 8223 0000 is the number. If you have a question, for Dr. Emily Kirkpatrick. Yeah, getting back to allergies, are there more allergies about now? Why are we seeing more diagnosed or just as it seemed like it? 01:00:04 Speaker 21: Well, we certainly are seeing more diagnosed. 01:00:05 Speaker 17: There's very clear evidence that there's been more diagnoses of allergies in the community and particularly now there's sort of movement towards having allergy management plans or allergy action plans through ASCIA as the peak body. It's interesting because you think, well, why is this happening? And we know that there's all sorts of reasons why people have allergies. It can be genetic. It can be environmental. And when we talk about environmental, it can be also the time in which someone has started solid diet. So we do know, in fact, there was some really good evidence that came out, and the World Health Organization supports this, that not to delay solids introductions in childhood, and particularly aiming at, you know, between that four and six months, once a child and a baby has really good motor control of their head and neck, that that's the time to start introducing solids and not delaying. And that appears, Graeme, to be part of some of this evidence that we see around allergies continuing to increase that we're seeing in the community. 01:01:00 Speaker 1: Okay, let's take another call. Zoe, go ahead. 01:01:03 Speaker 23: Oh, yeah, I'd just like to say my experience with an allergy, I have an MSG allergy, very severe. I got it about 10 years ago, and I'm now 72. And I'd just like to say that people that don't have an allergy, when you go. 01:01:22 Speaker 15: Out to eat, it is very stressful to. 01:01:26 Speaker 23: To try and order any food because I find. 01:01:29 Speaker 15: That the MSG allergy is not. 01:01:31 Speaker 23: Very common and chefs and cooks don't really understand it. 01:01:40 Speaker 17: Yes, thanks Zoe for raising the MSG. 01:01:42 Speaker 1: It is interesting. 01:01:43 Speaker 17: MSG is one of those ones that's becoming more and more people are becoming sensitive to it and we see it in cookings in particular. We see it in Asian style cooking to really bring out that umami flavours in it. The challenge of course with this is that we know that there's different components that can trigger people to have very mild allergies and it can be in fact someone has a sensitivity and gets a headache after eating MSG right to having a full scale reaction and again I it's very challenging for our community more and more to be able to go out and eat because simple things like soy sauce or certain sauces may have MSG added into it as well. 01:02:18 Speaker 1: They should be on the label though, shouldn't it, if there's MSG? So it's important to read the label. 01:02:22 Speaker 10: Absolutely. 01:02:23 Speaker 17: But when you're going out and you're going to a sushi train or you're going out with your kids somewhere for dinner and you think, okay, am I going to be at risk of being exposed to something that I know I'm sensitive towards as well? And I've It's interesting, I had a patient recently, Graeme, who mentioned about alcohol as well and their sensitivities to different types of alcohol. And of course, not knowing that from the wine list, you know, is this going to have a particular compound in it that actually triggers me to get migraines? So fascinating. 01:02:49 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard of people can't drink wines from certain regions because there's a sulphur or something in the wine that impacts them. 01:02:57 Speaker 10: Yes, yes. 01:02:58 Speaker 1: So, you know, does this come from the under? I can't drink it, you know. There wouldn't be Barossa or Clare Valley or any of that in South Australian wineries or the Fleurieu or whatever. Darren says, Morning, Graeme. I remember back in the 70s growing up, I had an allergy to strawberries. I broke out in a red, blotchy, itchy rash, so I was told to avoid them. When I was older, I decided to try them and found out I'd grown out of the allergy, and now I can scoff them down by the punnet, and my taste buds are all the better for it. There you are, Darren. There's a good news story. Thank you for that. Sue says, I have a shocking allergy to cayenne pepper. It started out as a huge white blisters all over my body, but now it causes me to vomit and I feel like I'm going to

die. He started with me as an adult. Is there anything I can do about it, says Sue. 01:03:46 Speaker 17: That's fascinating. There's so many different exposures that we now know and, of course, different forums where people talk about what have been some of the alternative ways that they've managed this. I mean, certainly as a baseline level, as a GP, we talk about oral antihistamines, reducing your exposure risk, but in fact, We know more and more that there's different ways that are in the non-medical realm that people are starting to treat their allergies or thinking about. And it can be all sorts of things to, you know, how do you cook with different substances? You know, how do you rub it on your skin? This comment about skin or putting it into body lotions. I've seen all sorts of strange things, but work for people. So it is quite surprising that we're seeing this, but at the same time, of course, more and more exposure risks in the community. 01:04:24 Speaker 1: We live and learn. Doctor, thanks for coming in. Always great to see you. 01:04:28 Speaker 17: Thank you, Graeme. To you and your listeners. 01:04:30 Speaker 1: 5AA' s resident GP, Dr Emily Kirkpatrick, will be back same time next week. 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 11 to 11, 5AA. After the 11 o'clock news, we'll be speaking with our motoring expert, James Ward. So if you have any motoring queries, anything you want to know about... Ring then, 8223 0000. Lynette says, with the amount parents and the government pay for childcare, wouldn't it be better to pay a parent a nominal amount to look after their own kids? Thank you for that. And on the subject, we're talking about speculating the cost of barristers because it would appear this Royal Commission in Victoria into the big build, corruption in the big build. Dan Andrews, former Premier, is getting three barristers paid for by the Victorian government and the. 01:05:19 Speaker 1: The Labour Premier that followed him, Jacinta Allen, is getting two barristers. And Harry says, in 2005, barristers were on $ 5, 000 a day. That bill will run up quickly, won't it? Tony, good morning. 01:05:37 Speaker 4: Tony, you're there. 01:05:38 Speaker 13: Hello, sorry, Graeme. 01:05:40 Speaker 1: That's all right. 01:05:44 Speaker 13: Dr Harry Cooper from Bed, House and Gardens. He was living down in Tasmania when the Peckinsfield mine disaster was happening. Oh, yeah. He went, you know, flew to, you know, the bar for the news and the weather and came back and he was on the set, apparently only about an hour or so away from where the mine was. 01:06:05 Speaker 1: Oh, is that right? 01:06:07 Speaker 13: Yeah. 01:06:07 Speaker 12: Yeah. 01:06:09 Speaker 4: Apparently. 01:06:10 Speaker 13: And also Bill Shorten was the guy in charge of the disaster in the first place. who was a former opposition leader. 01:06:22 Speaker 1: That's right. And was it true? I think someone said that Richard Carlton actually. 01:06:27 Speaker 10: That's right. 01:06:28

Speaker 13: He passed away. 01:06:29 Speaker 1: He passed away down there. 01:06:30 Speaker 13: That's right. 01:06:31 Speaker 1: So much was happening. Yeah, and that's 2008. Good on you, Tony. Thanks for reminding us of that. 01:06:35 Speaker 24: 2006. 01:06:37 Speaker 1: Thank you, Sam. Yeah, it's quite remarkable that so many things happened in that event. And Beaconsfield mining disaster attracted world attention. And there were OB vans and that from around the world, effectively. And they must have borrowed local ones. They weren't flying them in from overseas. But the world attention was focused on Beaconsfield for those two weeks. I just still can't comprehend how it would be to be buried underground in absolutely total, total darkness. Nothing. I don't know about you, but I reckon if I'd survived 24 hours, I'd have done well. But to survive for two weeks in that respect, They did finally make contact. They got an air pipe down to them and they were able to, as Mel Doyle said when we were talking earlier, they could pump music down there, send notes down the line. So they knew that they were going to be rescued. But still, in that absolute total darkness, if you're a minor, well, I suppose if you're a minor, claustrophobia wouldn't enter into it because you wouldn't go down a mine if you suffered from claustrophobia. But yeah, just a remarkable situation. to think it was 2006, not all that long ago, really. From the text line, what if having a baby you didn't pay income tax, Shane? Yeah, we're looking at ways of increasing the fertility rate because it's dropped to alarmingly low levels at the moment. One way of overcoming that is increasing immigration. I think we'd all agree that that is not a good solution because for every person you bring into the country, they've got to find somewhere to live. If someone is born in this country, they're born into a family, they're already living somewhere, so it doesn't create an instantaneous housing situation. But what are the ways of paying a baby bonus that people won't fritter it away on big screen TVs and the holidays? Vouchers, perhaps? There's got to be a way. Morning Graham, my partner and myself are both full-time professionals. We have a combined income of $ 180, 000 a year. We can't afford to have children. We would love to, but after the mortgage, groceries, bills, and the cost of just living, we have zero disposable income. We would get no government help if we were to have kids, yet a migrant can come over and be gifted the necessities to survive and thrive with children The government have their priorities so backward, it's dissolving our nation. Your thoughts. With housing shrinking and becoming more dense and expensive, no backyards, why would people want to have children? Judith, yeah, that's a pretty grim view on it, and that's true that kids these days born into a The old quarter-acre block, and you've got a big backyard, often a big front yard as well. Now, a quarter-acre block

is subdivided, and you get three properties on it, and everyone gets a pokey little courtyard, if that. It is not anywhere near as appealing. There's no question about that. A reminder, we've got the Dilmar gift pack to give away. Dilmar, from the spiced warmth of paradise breakfast with turmeric, cinnamon, and ginger, to classic Earl Grey. Served in elegant Lumiere double wall glasses, Dilmar make every cup a moment. So a Dilmar gift pack to give away to a random caller. It could be you. Give us a call on 8223 0000. Regarding the cricket and the sandpaper gate, Jeff says, Hi Graham, if you were on a million plus a year, you would probably say I know nothing. Not sandpaper, but alternative ways of keeping one side scuffed and they've been around since Adam was a boy. Yeah, I take your point, Geoff, but when the players have used techniques of getting the ball with spit or hair top of lotion, that's frowned upon, or rubbing the ball on their trousers, that's sort of fairly obvious and nowhere near as insidious as taking a piece of sandpaper onto the ground. And that's taking cheating to a whole new level. There's no question about that. Good morning. It's really disturbing that people, in particular kids, idolize some sportsmen, women. So many of them do the wrong thing, ball tampering, drugs, alleged assault, etc. They continue to lie about things, and the majority of them are so entitled. Ball tampering, in particular, is cheating, and someone needs to stand up and put a stop to it now. Show some guts. Yeah, fair point. Can't disagree with that at all. Juliet says, or Julie says, whilst I don't doubt they may have all known it was going on, more interesting to me is the deafening silence from other cricket nations not daring to be critical. That is an interesting point. Most interesting point. Mark says, I like Port Augusta John, love cricket, would like to know what happened. Yeah, a lot of people would like to know. And I think it's fair to ask the question. As for people saying, you know, why are you talking about that? Leave it to the sports show. Well, the fact is, This is more than a sports story. This is about cheating, corruption in sport. It makes front page news and front page news is what we talk about it on this station. 8223 0000. And speaking of what we're going to talk about after the news, we're going to be joined by director of drive.com.au, contents director, James Ward. And if you have any motoring questions and credit, how are you, how's she going with the credit card? I don't want to even talk about it. Well, It appears that credit card debt has dropped across Australia for the third consecutive month. Are we becoming better money managers, or is it just that people are struggling so much that they're putting the credit card away? What is the situation? How do you deal with credit card debt? We'll speak with CanStar Data Insights Director Sally Tindall, who's always popular on the show. That's coming up after the news at 11.

Stick around. 01:12:26 Speaker 4: 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 01:12:31 Speaker 1: Seven past eleven this Tuesday morning. Thanks for tuning in. If you've just joined us, you've missed a lot. Still lots to come. Love to hear from you on 8223 0000. Now we go down the road of motoring. James Ward from Drive.com joins us. James, good morning to you. Good morning, mate. I don't know where to start. My producer tells me that I should start with the Yongwang. What's this all about? 01:12:55 Speaker 25: So I went to Dubai and Abu Dhabi on the weekend, as you do, because BYD has their premium brand Yongwang and their fully electric hypercar, the U9X, It was a Guinness World Record of 503 kilometres an hour as a production car. 01:13:16 Speaker 1: So they're only making. 01:13:18 Speaker 25: 30-something, one of them. So if you had a spare couple of mil, you could have bought one of these. But this was on a– so it's a production car on a public road. They closed down a freeway just outside of Abu Dhabi to do this. 01:13:32 Speaker 1: On production tyres. 01:13:34 Speaker 25: So it is like normal tyres that you can go and get, and they're normal road tyres, which are– you know, they've got the proper grooves in them for getting rid of wet weather, water, and all that sort of stuff. They were developed– Because they're spinning at 60 times per second. They're made by GT, which is a Singaporean tyre company. And they've got Kevlar sidewalls and Kevlar faces. So you think how fast they're rotating, they distort and become non-round. So they had to re-engineer the tyre so it would stay round at that kind of speed. And it's a The car itself is a 3,000 horsepower fully electric supercar. 01:14:14 Speaker 1: So it's 2,200 kilowatts. Four motors. 01:14:17 Speaker 25: I think a train has 2,200 kilowatts. Like, it's that powerful. And I chatted to the guy who drove it yesterday. a German race driver called Mark Bessing. And he said, yeah, he had to accelerate and then brake and accelerate and then brake to kind of build heat into the car and sort of get stable. 01:14:35 Speaker 1: But he said it got a bit light at sort. 01:14:36 Speaker 25: Of 450 kilometres an hour, which, you know, I guess you would. They took the spoiler off it so it had lower drag so it could go even faster. But you watch, they've got in-car video of it. It's insane how quick. And so it set a Guinness World Record. And when I was there, the The team from GT presented their Guinness World Record, so for the fastest tyres ever on electric cars. But when you think about it, the engineering and the time, they said they took three years of developing the car and the tyres for the car to do it. 01:15:08 Speaker 1: But the best. 01:15:10 Speaker 25: Bit is if you own one of these... You can just order a new set of tyres from the website. They're that kind of production-y ready, but it is bananas. So this is a Chinese supercar, 503.17 kilometres an hour on. 01:15:23 Speaker 1: A production car. 01:15:27 Speaker 25: On a public road on normal car tyres. So pretty impressive for everyone involved. 01:15:34 Speaker 1: So when are you picking yours up? Well, this is it. 01:15:37 Speaker 25: I reckon if you could do, that would mean you could get from Melbourne to Adelaide in, you know, an hour and a half just absolutely flat chatting it. But what we didn't find out was how efficient the car is at that speed, so how long the batteries would last at that point. 01:15:53 Speaker 1: And I'm reckoning maybe, you know, Ten minutes. 01:15:56 Speaker 14: No. 01:15:58 Speaker 1: So you can't see these going into full-scale production? Well, they have. 01:16:03 Speaker 25: So the cars, you can actually buy this. And an Australian businessman has ordered one to come. So I think they're in production now. 01:16:11 Speaker 1: They've got two versions. 01:16:12 Speaker 25: So there's the U9, which is a regular production supercar, but then the U9X for extreme. They're only doing a very limited number. I think there's 30-something being done. But, yeah, you could– a very well-heeled person could buy one of these. We don't suspect they're going to allow you to unleash all 500 kilometres an hour. It'll probably be electronically limited. But you'd hope so, wouldn't you? 01:16:39 Speaker 1: We don't want to see that on the freeways of Australia. 01:16:42 Speaker 25: Well, what Mark was saying, the driver, he said they had a team of street sweepers going out to clear all of the sand from the road. They took off all the reflective cat's eyes on the freeway. But it was a 15-kilometre stretch of freeway where they could do it. It took him five kilometres of driving to get up to that speed and then obviously washing off the speed to brake again. But you might have seen there was footage like a couple of weeks ago of it crashing during testing. So it shows that it was a pretty risky thing to do. But, yeah, incredible to think now that you could– With enough money, you can have a car that does half the speed of sound. 01:17:26 Speaker 1: That is scary. And when you think about Australian roads and the potholes that we're dealing with at the moment. Well, even better. 01:17:31 Speaker 25: So the car has an active suspension that allows it to hop over things. 01:17:38 Speaker 1: I don't know you'd want to do that at 500. 01:17:39 Speaker 4: No. 01:17:40 Speaker 25: But there's videos of it with things in the road, and it can hop. 01:17:45 Speaker 1: It can leap in the air and land again. It's astonishing. 01:17:49 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:17:51 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's mind-blowing. 503 kilometres an hour. Dear, oh, dear. Let's get back to more pedestrian stuff. Coming to the end of the Tesla Cybertruck. 01:18:01 Speaker 25: Yeah, so look, the Cybertruck, and again, it's one of those things, when they first announced it and showed it, you're like, oh, gee, wow, is that going to be, is that real? 01:18:11 Speaker 1: But obviously, it's been in production for a. 01:18:13

Speaker 25: Little while, but the market basically said that they're going to stop it now. It's sort of had its initial success over in the US, and then sales have petered off, and it's the sort of thing they don't need to keep building. They've said that they won't be in production They won't be producing into right-hand drive. So Australia was initially able to put a deposit down on it, but they've cancelled that. So now the whole project is coming to an end. Look, when you see one in the metal, it's, again, bonkers to think that this thing got built. It's just like out of a science fiction movie. 01:18:48 Speaker 1: They're actually really big. when you see them. 01:18:51 Speaker 25: The capability of this thing was pretty impressive. But, yes, that's it. 01:18:55 Speaker 1: For the Cybertruck. 01:18:56 Speaker 25: So, you know, we sort of don't weep for it. It didn't really attract the most, you know, solid reputation for people who drove it and chose it. 01:19:07 Speaker 1: Do you know if any made it to Australia? No, there was one that. 01:19:09 Speaker 25: Came here on tour, and it was basically imported just to showcase for Tesla. But no, I don't think anyone ever got one in. It wouldn't be legal to have here. You could potentially bring it in on what they call a carnet, where it sort of operates here as a tourist, or you can bring it in as a non-drivable thing. So the fact that it's a car, if you bring it in under a certain category, it can't be driven on the roads, but you can physically have it here. 01:19:39 Speaker 1: So regarding EVs and hybrids and the like, is the momentum that picked up earlier in the year continuing? 01:19:45 Speaker 25: Yeah, look, for sales here particularly, the increase in fuel costs have seen a lot of people say, you know what, now's the time. And we're seeing electric cars are outselling. 01:19:57 Speaker 1: Pure petrol. They're outselling hybrids. They're outselling diesel. 01:20:02 Speaker 25: And when you combine full electric with plug-in hybrid and regular hybrid, so some form. 01:20:09 Speaker 1: Of electrification, that's now– Half. 01:20:11 Speaker 25: Of all vehicles sold in Australia have electricity in some part being their powertrain. And I think for the fully electric cars, the Tesla Y and the Sea Lion 7 are the two most popular. The idea that you can get one of these– there's so much option in market now. The value is there. You've still got that FBT incentive where you don't pay fringe benefits tax if you buy one through a novated lease, which is incredible saving. But a couple of years ago, we were talking about it, saying, when will these be at an affordable price point for people? 01:20:42 Speaker 1: Well, that's been met. 01:20:43 Speaker 25: When will there be more choice for buyers? 01:20:45 Speaker 1: Well, that's been met. 01:20:46 Speaker 25: You can get everything from compact city cars all the way through to sort of family SUVs. But what we don't have yet is a viable. 01:20:56 Speaker 25: Go anywhere off-roader, and that's the step. We've seen things with hybridisation, so GWM and Denza, which is another part of BYD, they have plug-in hybrid off-roaders, and they're doing okay. But what I actually saw again in Abu Dhabi yesterday was Denza have got this thing called flash charging, and basically what they've been able to do is it's essentially– portable's not the right word, but pop-up charging. Electric vehicle charging. So they've got a thing that arrives on the back of a truck. It has got a 300 kilowatt hour, 350 kilowatt hour battery, a massive solar array, and then a plug to put your car in. And it's like a big gantry. It pops up like a little tiny two-car service station. But that's enough to charge– It'll take 10 hours to fully charge that battery in direct sunlight, but you could charge four cars from that battery and not need the grid at all. And their flash charging does 1.5 megawatt charging. So basically, you plug it in, and five minutes later, it's fully charged. It's incredible what they're doing. So this technology movement that charging... Range isn't a problem. The new BMW iX3 gets over 800 kilometres range. The new i3, the 3 Series sedan that comes next year, has 900 kilometres range. 01:22:18 Speaker 1: So we've solved that. The idea of. 01:22:22 Speaker 1: Your charging speed is being solved. The cost is being solved. 01:22:26 Speaker 25: So we're really, really getting down now into that complete mass market appeal, except for towing and touring. And they're the big questions where we do need to see that for that part of the market. 01:22:39 Speaker 1: But certainly, we're looking pretty good. Are they making any progress regarding the bigger vehicles, towing a boat, towing a caravan? 01:22:46 Speaker 4: Yeah. 01:22:47 Speaker 25: No, and that's the thing. The physics just isn't there. And again, if you look at that super high-speed U9X, it's amazing what it can do, but it can't keep doing that. That's going to have incredible short range to do that. And what you find with towing something or carrying something, as soon as you put that weight onto an electric vehicle, which is already a heavy vehicle, it's nowhere near as efficient as it needs to be. 01:23:14 Speaker 1: And so. 01:23:15 Speaker 25: With current battery technology, you either need to have more batteries, which is more weight, or just simply look at other forms of hybridization. 01:23:24 Speaker 1: And the one car that we're really, really waiting. 01:23:26 Speaker 25: For is the new Cherry Stockman Ute because it's a plug-in hybrid, but it's a turbo diesel. 01:23:32 Speaker 1: So you've got a. 01:23:33 Speaker 25: Four-cylinder diesel engine, which is what you get in a Mazda BT50 or a Ranger and things like that. 01:23:41 Speaker 1: With a plug-in hybrid system. 01:23:42 Speaker 25: So yes, it weighs a bit more, but you've got the ability to drive around town using no fuel. And then if you do need to go further afield or you do need

to tow, you've got that torquey response of a diesel engine rather than a small petrol engine. 01:23:54 Speaker 1: So the shark that we see a lot of. 01:23:57 Speaker 25: Yes, they're a plug-in hybrid, but it's only a 1.6 litre turbo petrol. So it's a really small engine pulling around a heavy vehicle. Whereas with a diesel, which is much more aligned to that kind of behaviour, we may actually start to see things move into that right way. So who would have thought diesel may be having its time in the sun yet again? 01:24:17 Speaker 1: Are we any closer to a road user charge? I mean, you know, more and more EVs on the road. That means fewer ICE vehicles paying the fuel excise. The government will want some sort of money. Are they moving in that direction at all? 01:24:30 Speaker 25: Yeah, I was at the federal budget lockup earlier this year, and that was one of the things that they put in to say that they are committed to working out what a road user charge is going to look like, because I think we need to get there at some point. The problem that we have is largely a bureaucratic one, because this has been resolved around the world in some places. They look at the type of vehicle and where you are and how you're using it, and you pay it as part of your registration. Whereas the fuel excise tax is a federal tax, but road registration and vehicle licensing is a state-based thing. 01:25:05 Speaker 1: And so if they need to have a road. 01:25:06 Speaker 25: User charge that aligns with what car you have registered and how far you drive it. It's federal working with state. And as we know, that's oil and water for organisation purely because of bureaucracy. Like it is, it's an organisational nightmare and this is what they need to figure out first is what is going to be the cost model and then how are we going to implement that from a federal taxation perspective across a state-based regulation perspective. 01:25:34 Speaker 1: And yeah, I dare say we're going to be a couple of years away. Way to go. James, always great to chat. Thanks for your time. A pleasure. We'll talk soon. Drive.com.au, Director of Content, James Ward, on all things motoring. 5AA Mornings with Graeme Goodings. 23 past 11, 5AA, this Tuesday morning. Always interesting to have James Ward in, introducing a lot of interesting subjects. And the reaction is interesting. Brian says, Hi, Graeme. They'll never beat pistons and a crankshaft. All this electric stuff is just another money spinner. Good on you, Brian. Trev says... EV outselling other cars 23% last month. 01:26:11 Speaker 14: Wow. 01:26:12 Speaker 1: That's a fact. They're selling crazily. Of course, they're outselling all the internal combustion cars. The government is forcing our hands and that is skewing the numbers. Well, there's no doubt there are incentives to buy EVs, but there's no bigger incentive than cheaper fuel, is there? Hi, Graham. Can you remember how fast Donald Campbell's Bluebird went on Lake Eyre? Well, Tony, I can. I just had time to look it up. On July the 17th, 1964... Donald Campbell set the world land speed record of 403.1 miles per hour. That is 648.7 kilometres an hour. Now, the Yu Yang was only 503. But let's think about it. This is a vehicle made for the roads. It can do 503. The world land speed record was set in 1964 at 648. A little bit too fast for me. Graeme, good morning. 01:26:51 Speaker 4: G'day, Graeme. 01:26:51 Speaker 1: How are you? Good, thanks. 01:27:09 Speaker 19: Just quickly on Sampo Brigade. It seems to be an overdrive at the moment. Something that a lot of people haven't picked up from Uzman Khawaja's exits is that he also named the shield team that habitually ball-tampered with. I think he suggested they were using bottle tops to rough one side. 01:27:29 Speaker 13: Of the ball up. 01:27:30 Speaker 1: Was it Victoria that he mentioned? 01:27:32 Speaker 19: Victoria. I'm surprised Victoria haven't said anything about it or the Victorian team. 01:27:36 Speaker 1: I think they have. 01:27:37 Speaker 19: Well, I have, haven't I? 01:27:39 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Sean Graff. I don't know what role he holds, a senior role with Victorian Cricket. And I've only heard it passing, though. I can't say what he said, but they're vehemently denied the charges. 01:27:52 Speaker 19: Because, I mean, if it's going on in Shield Creek, of course, they don't have the elaborate cameras that a test match would have. So picking it up would be considerably more difficult, I'd assume. because I think they only got about three or four cameras at Shield Games, so it would be difficult to pick it up. But if that's been going on for a long, long time, and I thought that other caller a while ago, when he said no other countries are condemning it, would suggest that it's rife everywhere. 01:28:20 Speaker 1: I think it's fair to say all countries are doing it. And evidently, South Africa, it's been suggested, were better at it than just about anyone else. I mean, this reverse swing and so forth, as the caller said earlier, all of a sudden has disappeared. There were some of these great bowlers in the world that could get the ball to you know, reverse swing. And we haven't heard about it the last few years. 01:28:42 Speaker 17: Well, you know, Mitch. 01:28:44 Speaker 19: Stark, I mean, he's a great bowler, but he was the king of reverse swing for a while. You know, the ball would be 80 overs old, and then all of a sudden it's doing hoops again. You do have to wonder. 01:28:56 Speaker 1: Yeah, you do. Good on you, Graeme. Yeah, thanks for your input. 01:28:58 Speaker 2: Thanks. 01:28:59 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no doubt that this has opened a can of worms. There's no question about it. I think Cricket Australia thought they put a lid on it back in 2008, but it is certainly not the case. It has been reopened by, and a lot of people said, oh, look, it's Kawaja just trying to sell his book. Well, no, he is. There's no question he's trying to sell his

book, but that doesn't get away from the fact that he claims that all the players knew about it. And to suggest that only, when you think of a cricket team, a close-knit cricket team, And they're all handling the ball out there. And when they're in the field, every single player handles the ball. They would see if it's changing and so forth to suggest that they didn't know what was going on. And in particular, bowlers, the bowlers who are so possessive and protective about the ball and making sure it's shined, they shine it on the correct side and don't scuff it up necessarily. They would know if all of a sudden the ball comes back and instead of being shiny and brand new all over, it's all scuffed up. How did that happen? Now, fast bowlers apparently never knew anything about it. Usman Khawaja has followed up his comments after subsequent attacks. This is what he's had to say today. 01:30:08 Speaker 26: All right, so it's book release day, but I'm going to clear something up here. People have been trying to find a way to move and shift the narrative from the truth to attacking me and my intentions. So, cool, let's chat about it. Now, lots of people are saying that I use sandpaper for my book sales or work to deal with penguins. 01:30:26 Speaker 1: That is 100% false. 01:30:29 Speaker 26: I did not negotiate a thing with Penguin when it came to sandpaper or. 01:30:32 Speaker 1: Any other topics in my life. 01:30:34 Speaker 26: We didn't even talk about it. 01:30:35 Speaker 1: So, here are the facts. 01:30:38 Speaker 26: I signed with them in 2023 and all they said to me was tell your story and that I had total control of everything that went in and everything that went out. 01:30:48 Speaker 1: It was all on me. 01:30:51 Speaker 26: So, just over two years later, I handed them my final draft. This was the first time I'd shown any of them my book. Penguin was shocked. My manager was shocked because I kept this from them. Neither of them knew anything about this. So how could I have orchestrated this massive book deal all the way in 2023 if both my manager and my publisher didn't know anything about this until six months ago? 01:31:17 Speaker 1: That's Usman Khawaja on the day his book has been released. More on the the sandpaper gate saga and i don't think we've heard the end of it. 01:31:28 Speaker 4: 5AA mornings with graham goodings. 01:31:32 Speaker 1: 28 minutes to 12 5AA on this tuesday morning my next guest is can star sally tindall sally good. 01:31:38 Speaker 10: Morning to you good morning graham how are you. 01:31:40 Speaker 1: Good thanks always great to chat i want to talk about credit cards it appears they could be losing their appeal what's happening It's. 01:31:47 Speaker 24: Really interesting the data that we crunched just yesterday from the RBA. It shows in September, we saw the number of credit card accounts drop to 11 million, 11.4 million, which sounds like a lot, Graham, but it's actually the lowest number of credit card accounts, personal cards, we're excluding commercial cards, since July 2005. 01:32:11 Speaker 10: It's incredible, 21 years. 01:32:16 Speaker 24: We haven't seen the credit card numbers be so low. 01:32:21 Speaker 10: And there's a number of reasons for this. 01:32:24 Speaker 24: There's, you know, a lot of young people staying away from high-risk, high-interest rate debts, which is great. There's some younger Australians in particular using Buy Now, Pay Later instead, which is less great, but still, you know, this usually has more reins around them than a credit card. 01:32:43 Speaker 10: But also what we are likely to. 01:32:46 Speaker 24: Be seeing is people shifting away from credit cards because of the overhaul that was initiated by the RBA banning credit and debit card surcharges. But the big overhaul that we've seen in the last couple of months where the banks have really kind of, you know, overhauled what credit cards are offering and it's pushed some people to go, you know what, I don't actually need that credit. 01:33:09 Speaker 10: Card in my back pocket anymore and cancelled their card. 01:33:12 Speaker 1: So what is your research showing that people are stopping using their credit card or just getting rid of them altogether? 01:33:19 Speaker 10: Well, some people are getting rid of them altogether. 01:33:22 Speaker 24: Other people are just chipping away at their debt. And this is also fantastic to see, Graeme, because you can see that Australians are putting their finances, their personal finances, as a high priority at this point in time. 01:33:35 Speaker 10: Now, credit card debt is quite cyclical. 01:33:37 Speaker 24: We often see it go up in December and January where people get to the silly season and they whack a few too many things on their credit card and then struggle to pay it off. 01:33:46 Speaker 1: All been guilty of that, haven't we, Sally? 01:33:48 Speaker 3: Oh, no. 01:33:48 Speaker 24: Look, yeah, well, by the time you get hit with 20% plus interest rates, hopefully it's a one-off. But for some people, unfortunately, it's just the finances are too tight to clear that credit card. And so, look, at this time of year, we do start to see debt tip down. 01:34:04 Speaker 10: But what we're seeing here is quite a noticeable slide. 01:34:08 Speaker 24: Since the start of the financial year, so the 1st of July, We've seen credit card debt drop by half a billion dollars, over half a billion dollars. That's fantastic to see. It's dropped for three months in a row. The big question is, can it keep going? Let's hope it can because if we can get to that silly season, like, you know, well, we're already basically in it, aren't we? But if we can get to December and avoid putting, you know, those Christmas purchases on the credit card to get that debt hangover in January, that would be a fantastic thing to see because credit card debt, it's... comes with these ridiculously high interest rates, it can really ruin someone's finances,

not just in the couple of months in the new year, but in some cases for years on end because they struggle to pay that debt off because they're paying interest and. 01:35:03 Speaker 10: The debt off at the same time. The problem can often get worse and worse and worse. 01:35:06 Speaker 1: If you've got money loaded up on credit cards, can you shop around and get a better deal? 01:35:11 Speaker 10: Oh, you absolutely can. 01:35:12 Speaker 24: And so if you are carrying around a credit card debt, know that you don't have to put up with a 20% rate or 20% plus rate. There's some rates that go as high as I think it's 28% at this point in time, which is crazy. Look, it's really important to stop and see if you can switch to a low rate card. 01:35:32 Speaker 10: They're becoming less and less, there's less and. 01:35:35 Speaker 24: Less choice, but there's still a couple of credit cards offering interest rates under 10%. 01:35:42 Speaker 10: On our website. 01:35:43 Speaker 24: And certainly you can switch to one that's say 13% or 12%. That can give you a little bit of breathing room. A lot of those cards will let you do what's known as a balance transfer, where you take an existing debt on your credit card and then move. 01:35:57 Speaker 10: It over to a new one. 01:35:59 Speaker 24: But just beware of doing that because it can come with plenty of traps there. There can be a fee for transferring that balance that's around 2% in some cases. But also the biggest trap would be not closing down the old card and then keeping two credit cards open, which is double the annual fees and sometimes double the pain. The other option, if you're carrying around persistent credit card debt, is thinking about switching it over to something like a personal loan. And a personal loan can be a really good option because a personal loan forces. 01:36:33 Speaker 10: You to pay down that debt. 01:36:35 Speaker 24: In full within a set time period and in equal chunks without the temptation when you hit the shops to add to it easily. So for a lot of people, a personal loan could be a good option. If you're not sure though, jump on the phone to the National Debt Helpline. See if you can get in touch with the financial counsellor. You might think, oh, you know, I'm carrying around $ 5, 000 worth of credit card debt or $ 10, 000 worth of credit card debt. 01:37:00 Speaker 10: That's not worthy of a phone call. 01:37:02 Speaker 4: Yes, it is. 01:37:06 Speaker 24: Call the National Debt Helpline, see if you can get a free financial counsellor that helps you chart a way. 01:37:11 Speaker 10: Out of this, you know, erosive. 01:37:17 Speaker 24: Finance kind of problem that you're in because credit card debt is a big problem for a lot of families across the country. 01:37:25 Speaker 1: Are banks proactive in allowing you to sort of move from one level to another regarding credit cards? 01:37:32 Speaker 10: You don't hear much of it. 01:37:33 Speaker 24: I certainly heard it in COVID and it's worth a shot if you can. You know, if you don't want to have to switch your card over to a different provider, pick up the phone to your bank. Say, I'm having trouble knocking this debt down for good. what are the options that you can give me? And they might present you with a couple of options, i.e. moving you on to a lower rate, moving you on to a lower rate card that they also offer, or helping you move it over to a personal loan. It is absolutely worth contacting your bank as well to see what they can offer up. But I would say in all of that, make sure you do your outside research as well. And that's where I'd say, go and get yourself a financial counsellor to give you that independent view as well. 01:38:15 Speaker 1: When it comes to people using credit cards less or getting rid of them altogether. Is there any sort of demographic situations? Are younger people doing it, older people, any particular age groups? 01:38:25 Speaker 24: Yeah, in terms of, you know, people not taking out credit cards, it's certainly the young people are more likely to be turning their backs on it. They're not even applying for it in the first instance. They're moving straight on to things like buy now, pay later, or they might have listened to their parents. 01:38:41 Speaker 10: That would be nice. Just be clear of any kind of debt altogether. 01:38:48 Speaker 24: But, you know, we are still seeing a level of interest there in young people chasing points. 01:38:54 Speaker 10: We've looked at this data before. 01:38:55 Speaker 24: It's really interesting to see that kind of lure of, you know, sign up points and free flights that, you know, and hundreds of thousands of dollars, sorry, hundreds and thousands of Qantas points or Velocity points or free toasters, whatever it is, it's still attracting people through the door and it is still attracting some young people. So you can't say, oh, no, young people aren't using credit cards at all. That's actually not the case. What I would say is just know, doesn't matter what age you are, just know that those points and those perks, they're all marketing. These are card providers, they are not charities. They're not throwing you freebies out of the goodness of their heart. They're throwing you freebies because it makes. 01:39:40 Speaker 10: Them a lot of money. Now, who are they making money from? Is it you? 01:39:44 Speaker 24: Because if it is, it's time to walk away from that card. If your card is leaving you in the red rather than ahead, based on the actual value of perks that you've redeemed, not that you might be able to redeem, but that you've redeemed, it's time to. 01:40:01 Speaker 1: Walk away yeah good advice september spending fell 1.4 billion dollars do you think that's evidence that consumers are tightening their. 01:40:08 Speaker 10: Belts Well, Graham, yes and no. 01:40:13 Speaker 24: Unfortunately, it came from a record high the month before in August, and so that drop is– it was a noticeable drop

in September, and it came at a very expensive time. It's when petrol prices really picked up, and it puts a lot of pressure. 01:40:27 Speaker 10: On household budgets. 01:40:29 Speaker 24: But the reality is we're spending more and more on our cards, credit and debit, as the months roll on, not because we're all, you know, going to town at the shops every But because everything costs so much more. You know, you go and fill up the car with petrol. It's, you know, you feel like it's daylight robbery these days. 01:40:48 Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. 01:40:49 Speaker 24: You know, you go and even just do a simple old grocery shop and, you know, every time you get to the checkout, you're like, sorry, what? I've only got a basket of goods. How is this costing me this much money? And so it's not necessarily us all splurging. It's a lot of it is essential experience. expenses and essential spending. We have seen it drop slightly, would expect it to go up in the next couple of months as we head towards Christmas. And that's a real warning here. If you know that your budget is tight, you've got maybe interest rate, yet another. 01:41:21 Speaker 10: Interest rate hike coming down the line. 01:41:24 Speaker 24: Now's the time to be working out a Christmas budget and one that's sustainable for your finances. Because you know, that might mean less tinsel, that might mean less presents around the tree, but you can get innovative about it and have a plan in place so that you don't blow the budget this Christmas. You don't overspend because that's when we see the biggest problems occur and the financial debt hangover comes in, kicks in at. 01:41:50 Speaker 10: About, you know, New Year's Eve. And for some people, it stays with them for months. 01:41:55 Speaker 1: So the aim is to avoid a January credit card hangover. 01:41:59 Speaker 10: Absolutely. 01:41:59 Speaker 24: And a little bit of pre-planning can really help that. If you haven't got your Christmas plans together yet or your financial Christmas plans together, stop and maybe on this weekend, carve out an hour, write down everything that you need to buy for Christmas. 01:42:14 Speaker 10: Not just the presents, but any travel that. 01:42:16 Speaker 24: You might need to do, any food that you might need to. 01:42:20 Speaker 10: Buy, everything. 01:42:21 Speaker 24: Write down the whole lot into a spreadsheet or a notepad or whatever. 01:42:26 Speaker 10: Tally up the cost. 01:42:28 Speaker 24: That'll shock you into preparing a budget and see where there's little swaps that you can make to help ease the burden of Christmas because it's a very financially difficult time of year for a lot of people. 01:42:40 Speaker 1: Certainly. Sally, great advice as always. Great to chat. 01:42:43 Speaker 10: Thanks, Graeme. 01:42:45 Speaker 1: Sally Tindall, the CanStar Data Insights Director. So, yeah, how's your credit card going, eh? Scared to look at mine. Scared to look. 8223 0000 is the number to ring. Well, the Prime Minister is currently speaking at a press conference where he's outlining new legislation for AI safety protocols. 01:43:03 Speaker 27: That's why in July I announced we would legislate world-leading Australian standards for AI. We've seen what happened in other parts of the world without guardrails or standards. Social licences slipped while safety and security have been undermined. Australia is the first mover in this space and we want to make sure that we continue to work so that we can reap the potential benefits from AI, boosting productivity, bolstering economic resilience, revolutionising areas such as healthcare. But we need to ensure that we get it right, and social licence is absolutely critical. And one of the first things that we're doing here today is announcing our mandatory AI safety and security protections, which will be part of our AI legislation. As part of that, these protections will be regulated by a new targeted AI safety regulator who will be able to enforce significant penalties for AI companies doing the wrong thing. There are six clear recommendations or mandated things to require companies to do. One, maintain security controls across all stages of development and deployment. Two, identify and manage serious risks associated with their models. Three, provide mandatory notification of incidents to the Australian Government rapidly. Four, allow independent evaluation of their models. Five, maintain and publish safety and security frameworks to ensure good governance. risk management and transparency. Six, respond to updated standards and rules as technologies change. 01:44:56 Speaker 1: These protections are. 01:44:57 Speaker 27: Aligned with the interim report recommendations from the Joint Select Committee on Artificial Intelligence that we've established to try to get broad engagement. with this critical issue from across the Parliament. 01:45:11 Speaker 1: That's the Prime Minister speaking a short time ago. We'll take a break. Then, between now and midday, we've got to give away our Dilmar gift pack. $ 56 worth. Sounds good. It could be you. Give us a call. 8223 0000. After one o'clock this afternoon, it's Angie McBride. Angie, how are you? Hello, Graeme. 01:45:30 Speaker 21: How are you going? 01:45:30 Speaker 1: Good, thanks. 01:45:31 Speaker 21: We've got lots. I want the listeners to get involved. 01:45:34 Speaker 28: So yesterday we did the biggest superstar in the world. I'm going to flip it today, sadly. The biggest fall from grace. 01:45:43 Speaker 8: Oh, okay. 01:45:44 Speaker 21: That could be fun. Russell Brand, yes. 01:45:47 Speaker 1: That could be very interesting. 01:45:48 Speaker 17: Yeah. Yeah. 01:45:49 Speaker 1: Where do we start? 01:45:50 Speaker 21: Anne Borland, she was beheaded, wasn't she? Off with her head. 01:45:55 Speaker 28: So we're doing that. Phil Hoffman, travel will be in. Also, following the sad death, I've got 54, too young, too young. 01:46:03 Speaker 1: Nice, certainly.

01:46:04 Speaker 28: So what are those big events that have shaped our nation? So what the. 01:46:11 Speaker 1: Bali bombings. 01:46:12 Speaker 21: Oh, yes, yes. 01:46:14 Speaker 1: Pretty huge. 01:46:14 Speaker 21: Sydney Olympics. 01:46:15 Speaker 1: Yeah, bushfires. 01:46:17 Speaker 21: Yes, there's lots, so we want listeners to be involved. 01:46:19 Speaker 1: Ashwick State bushfires. 01:46:20 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:46:21 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. You set your people thinking. That's interesting. 01:46:23 Speaker 2: Yeah. 01:46:23 Speaker 8: Yeah, good. 01:46:24 Speaker 21: Thank you. 01:46:25 Speaker 1: Brilliant. Angie McBride this afternoon in for Leith Forest. My number is 8223 0000. Almost time to go, but I think we've got time for a couple of calls. Gail, good morning. 01:46:34 Speaker 29: Yes, good morning, Graeme. Always lovely to hear you on the radio. Thank you. Yeah, I just want to talk about the baby bonus. I think paying straight into people's bank accounts of money isn't probably... workable way but I think what would be better is if the government paid a percentage into child care and then into the nominated school so whatever child care centre they're going to the government pays whatever you know they think is to alleviate that cost and then whatever nominated primary school and then high school up to the age of maybe 18 I don't know because I a lot of young people you talk to say, you know, it's the cost of childcare right after 18. 01:47:13 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. 01:47:15 Speaker 29: And I think that would really alleviate a lot of the financial burden and the money would go for the right reason as well. 01:47:22 Speaker 1: Gail, I like your thinking. I think that's a good idea. Rather than give people a lump sum, here's a cheque for $ 6, 000, $ 8, 000, $ 10, 000, and who knows how that's going to be spent, allocated for something like childcare and schooling. 01:47:33 Speaker 4: Gail. 01:47:33 Speaker 29: Absolutely. 01:47:34 Speaker 1: Gail, do you like tea? 01:47:36 Speaker 29: Oh, I absolutely love tea. I love it. 01:47:38 Speaker 1: Well, guess what? 01:47:39 Speaker 29: I'm a tea connoisseur. 01:47:40 Speaker 1: You have won a Dilmar gift pack worth $ 56. Oh, that's amazing. 01:47:45 Speaker 8: Thank you. 01:47:46 Speaker 1: That's lovely. It includes three gourmet teas and two Lumiere double wall glasses. So well done. I love your suggestion. 01:47:51 Speaker 8: That's lovely. 01:47:52 Speaker 19: Hold on. 01:47:52 Speaker 1: I'll put you back. 01:47:53 Speaker 29: Thank you so much, Graham. Thank you. 01:47:55 Speaker 1: Put you back to Sam. So there you go. Let's take another call. Out to Morfitt Vale now. 01:48:01 Speaker 22: Robbie. 01:48:02 Speaker 1: G'day, Robbie. 01:48:03 Speaker 3: Yeah, how are you going? 01:48:04 Speaker 1: Good, thanks. 01:48:04 Speaker 20: You were talking about people being in hospital waiting. 01:48:07 Speaker 8: For beds, you know, old people. 01:48:08 Speaker 18: Yep. 01:48:09 Speaker 6: Well, they shut that old folks' home down at Stansbury a few years ago, and no one knows why. 01:48:14 Speaker 1: Did they? 01:48:16 Speaker 8: As far as I know, it's still. 01:48:17 Speaker 1: Sitting there empty. 01:48:19 Speaker 14: Wow. 01:48:20 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I have a vague recollection about it. It's a bit late in the day for us to find out more about it, but yeah, Robbie, that's a good point. There was an old folks' home at Stansbury. 01:48:30 Speaker 20: Yeah, I think it was called Eleanor, I think. 01:48:32 Speaker 2: Was it? 01:48:33 Speaker 10: I think it was Eleanor. 01:48:34 Speaker 8: Well, they used to call it Dunroodin, actually, but I. 01:48:36 Speaker 20: Think it was Eleanor. 01:48:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Good on you. Thanks for that, Robbie. We'll see what we can find out. Let's go out to Blake. G'day, Julie. 01:48:44 Speaker 15: Good morning, Graeme. What, two days in a row? 01:48:46 Speaker 1: How about that? How lucky am I? 01:48:48 Speaker 8: You are. 01:48:49 Speaker 15: No, I'm luckier, Graeme. Talking about the Usman Khawaja and the cricket saga and the bowlers, still keep saying they didn't know anything about it. 01:49:01 Speaker 8: Well, my husband. 01:49:02 Speaker 6: Played a lot of cricket. 01:49:03 Speaker 13: He's a very, very good cricketer. 01:49:05 Speaker 15: He was A grade, and as he got older, you know, he lost B grade when his knees gave way. But he played a lot of district cricket, and he was really good. He said to me that if there was any ball camping going on, even in the grades that he played in, he would know. You know, he said, and he wouldn't. 01:49:25 Speaker 8: Go for cheating. 01:49:26 Speaker 15: He's not one to be cheating. 01:49:28 Speaker 10: In a game. 01:49:28 Speaker 1: Yeah. 01:49:29 Speaker 15: And he said all you had to do was keep one side of the ball shiny and work on one side. You keep it shiny and the other side will just scuff up anyway. 01:49:38 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. 01:49:39 Speaker 15: And he said he had a preference to bowl. You can get a platypus. 01:49:45 Speaker 16: Cricket ball or a kookaburra. 01:49:47 Speaker 15: And he used to love playing with the platypus balls because they actually swung a lot and he was really good at reverse swings. So he said there's no need for cricketers of that caliber to be tampering with the ball to get reverse swing. I mean, compared to the grades that they played, you know, he just said he cannot understand how the ball was, just didn't have any idea or chose not to look at it, didn't know that the ball had been tampered with. He said especially if somebody was taking sandpaper to one side of the ball, he said you would know. 01:50:18 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a fair point. That's coming from someone who's played the game. Yeah, look, I agree with that, Julie. I just can't see, from my observation of cricket, and I played a little bit and not very well, but the bowlers know and they want the ball to be

absolutely perfect for their style of bowling. And if anyone's messing with it, they'll know about it. They know. 01:50:38 Speaker 25: Well, he was an. 01:50:39 Speaker 15: Opening bowler, a fast bowler, and one of the guys, he holds the record still, 15 wickets in a game. 01:50:46 Speaker 24: Oh, wow. 01:50:47 Speaker 8: He was a really, really good cricketer. 01:50:50 Speaker 15: And he said, all you have to do is look after one side of the ball and the other side, you let it scruff up. 01:50:58 Speaker 1: That's the old fair way to do it, Julie. But as we all know, where there's a will, there's a way. Andrew says, Albo saying the important part with the so-called AI protections is to get it right. If there is anything surer with this government, they won't get it right. Everything they've touched since coming in has turned to ruin. News just breaking. There's been an emergency summit in Adelaide regarding aged care health. The Premier is warning people will wait longer for an ambulance in life or death situations. He says the state's health system is hitting breaking point. He was addressing this meeting this morning. He released damning new data predicting 700 aged care patients would be stuck in South Australian hospitals by next winter without urgent federal government action. The SA Ambulance and SA Health modelling released by the Premier shows only one in two life or death emergency ambulance call-outs, or Priority 1, would arrive within the targeted eight minutes. Fewer than half, or 40% of Priority 2 call-outs, would arrive within the 16-minute target, including falls, strokes and chest pains, and overdue Category 2 and 3 elective surgeries would rise by almost 30%. The Premier demanded federal government action on aged care but did not specify the detail. He says, if the federal government fails to act on its responsibility, the number of elderly South Australians stranded in hospitals forecast to reach 700 by next winter. That should sound alarm bells for all South Australians. And I think the alarm bells have sounded already in the news that Salvation Army is to leave residential aged care. If the federal government doesn't act on this, you know, they will lose any shred of support and help that they've had because the aged care issue has been with us for a long time and is been known for a long time that it was going to get worse and yet the federal government has turned a blind eye towards it and chooses to spend money in other areas martin says good morning graham regarding declining birth rates in australia net zero is on track in reducing the populations and consumption in western societies man-made climate change is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on western societies one nation is trying to inform the sheeple thank you for that marty uh Someone says, can we replace Albanese enchantments with AI? And on the subject of sandpaper gate, Jack says, who cares what Kawaja says? Captain and vice captain should take the blame. It happened under their watch. Well, on that note, folks, we'll call it a day. Thank you so much for your company. Angie McBride will be on this afternoon after one. Have a great day.