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Does the Western Intelligence Control the Vatican? Jay Dyer & Pavel Schelin

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WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:04.650 Sometimes you have a duty to hide your true intentions 2 00:00:05.330 --> 00:00:09.199 in front of the outside world because people can only 3 00:00:09.259 --> 00:00:12.560 judge your actions, but the intentions of your heart will 4 00:00:12.599 --> 00:00:13.960 be judged only by God. 5 00:00:14.740 --> 00:00:16.519 When Jesus is brought up on the mountain and he's 6 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.719 given those temptations, that's essentially what the Vatican said. Yeah, 7 00:00:19.739 --> 00:00:22.539 we will rule with you. And then eventually it's like, Jesus, 8 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:24.780 you're kind of in the way of our project. 9 00:00:25.070 --> 00:00:28.170 Vatican is a peace representative. Sounds way better as a, sorry, 10 00:00:28.230 --> 00:00:32.479 CIA director is a peace representative. Just even from PR perspective. 11 00:00:32.740 --> 00:00:35.250 And then you connect it and then you use it. 12 00:00:35.729 --> 00:00:36.810 Congratulations. 13 00:01:07.969 --> 00:01:09.670 Okay, welcome back. 14 00:01:10.909 --> 00:01:13.469 I don't honestly remember what's the number of the episode 15 00:01:13.489 --> 00:01:16.629 we are recording, but I remember the topic. So in 16 00:01:16.670 --> 00:01:19.519 the last part, we talked a lot about technocrats and 17 00:01:20.030 --> 00:01:21.439 actually I thought it would be one of the most 18 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.760 boring episodes. And despite not even mentioning Peter Thiel and Antichrist, 19 00:01:25.780 --> 00:01:29.799 we actually ended up doing pretty fascinating segues. So highly 20 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.700 recommend you go back and check it if you're just 21 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:37.000 joining for this episode. However, today in the center of 22 00:01:37.060 --> 00:01:41.269 our attention, is, as I said before, simultaneously old and 23 00:01:41.329 --> 00:01:44.909 new story. It is the story of the Vatican as 24 00:01:45.010 --> 00:01:49.260 a political player in this big game of power, its spirit, 25 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:52.819 and in particular on American turf and global turf and 26 00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:54.739 like what kind of vision of the future and it 27 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.060 tells how it relates to other big, let's say, tribes 28 00:01:59.189 --> 00:02:03.299 we've been talking about, what spirit it animates. And truth 29 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:05.519 be told, this one I really think will be the 30 00:02:05.659 --> 00:02:08.500 episode I talk the least because I have maybe the 31 00:02:08.539 --> 00:02:12.819 best expert in the language universe who spends like, I 32 00:02:12.860 --> 00:02:17.659 don't know, several thousand hours publicly talking about this issue. 33 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.189 So all hands to you, Jay. So what is Vatican, 34 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.650 why it's politically relevant, and how it all came to be? 35 00:02:25.789 --> 00:02:28.120 I think the best place to start with, the Vatican 36 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.800 is actually in the first thousand years in terms of forgeries. 37 00:02:33.419 --> 00:02:34.300 Well before America. 38 00:02:34.460 --> 00:02:38.360 Well before America. Because the problems with the Vatican are 39 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:45.289 not really ultimately Rome or something like this. We share, 40 00:02:45.310 --> 00:02:49.110 of course, as Orthodox, many, many centuries of Orthodox popes. 41 00:02:49.930 --> 00:02:52.729 We think that they were on the right track and 42 00:02:52.750 --> 00:02:55.500 they were hallowed for their orthodoxy for many, many centuries. 43 00:02:55.990 --> 00:02:59.629 doubly apostolic peter and paul even when you go to 44 00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:03.310 rome still to this day they still honor peter and 45 00:03:03.349 --> 00:03:05.310 paul and most of the basilicas up front and that 46 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:08.629 you see them equal which is ironic because that equality 47 00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:12.310 ends up being lost over time and the reason i 48 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:15.710 point to the forgeries is that we see the original 49 00:03:15.750 --> 00:03:18.210 impetus when these forgeries begin to appear in the 600s 50 00:03:18.250 --> 00:03:22.009 and the 700s they don't really gain prominence for another 51 00:03:22.069 --> 00:03:28.719 couple centuries but they're initially about Worldly political power. Forgeries 52 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:31.780 that are backing up, most famously, the donation of Constantine. 53 00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:37.550 Later on, we have Isidorean forgeries, Samocian forgeries. And then 54 00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:39.409 when we get to the 11th century, we have the 55 00:03:39.449 --> 00:03:43.909 Gregorian reforms, where essentially the papacy, now admitted by the Vatican, 56 00:03:43.939 --> 00:03:45.879 by the way, most of their theologians in the 20th 57 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.280 century have admitted that there's a revolution in the church 58 00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:53.740 in the 11th century. And you have essentially Teutonic-Germanic kings 59 00:03:55.569 --> 00:04:01.490 Frankish kings exerting tremendous amounts of influence, essentially installing the 60 00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:04.400 bishops of Rome for almost a century. And so it 61 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:10.020 becomes kind of a pet political project for certain worldly, 62 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.990 greedy kings and rulers to take this religious office and 63 00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:20.170 turn it into a tool for expanding their own. 64 00:04:21.889 --> 00:04:22.310 Desires. 65 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.680 And this, I would say, ultimately what ends up happening 66 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.360 is for many centuries, the Bishop of Rome ends up 67 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.939 kind of being this sort of like pimped out office 68 00:04:31.939 --> 00:04:37.769 that you want to control because it's not just a 69 00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:41.649 spiritual power, but by the 11th, 12th, and
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13th centuries, 70 00:04:42.709 --> 00:04:48.649 it's a worldly power also that grows to eventually say, basically, 71 00:04:49.389 --> 00:04:53.689 if you don't acknowledge the temporal power, as well as 72 00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:56.490 the spiritual power and headship of the entire church, you 73 00:04:56.550 --> 00:05:01.310 are damned. If you do not fight for the Pope, 74 00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:04.230 if he tells you to, with your armies as a king, 75 00:05:04.529 --> 00:05:08.310 you are damned. And so by between the 11th century 76 00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:13.990 to the 13, I think 1380s with Pope Boniface's Unum Sanctum, 77 00:05:14.790 --> 00:05:18.430 you have this evolution of a doctrine that salvation is 78 00:05:18.490 --> 00:05:23.319 now contingent upon not just accepting the universal spiritual headship 79 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:27.670 of the papacy, but also his geopolitical temporal power as 80 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.389 necessary for salvation. So this is a huge change. There's 81 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:33.550 nothing like that in the first thousand years. Even the 82 00:05:34.050 --> 00:05:39.040 donation of Constantine doesn't make salvation dependent upon also recognizing 83 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.379 that the Pope is the quesatatorac, to use the Dune terminology. 84 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.459 So this is clearly an evolution of doctrine. And ironically, 85 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.529 the Vatican to this day has kind of conceded this 86 00:05:50.730 --> 00:05:54.540 with most of their historians and theologians. But what's funny 87 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:56.500 is that the, you know, if you go back to 88 00:05:56.519 --> 00:06:00.339 the time of Vatican I, when the most famous papal 89 00:06:00.379 --> 00:06:04.040 historian and theologian of that time, Ignaz von Dollinger, Dollinger 90 00:06:04.060 --> 00:06:06.370 wrote a book that I'm reading right now called The 91 00:06:06.389 --> 00:06:09.670 Pope and the Council. And it's discussing his own reservations 92 00:06:09.709 --> 00:06:12.170 about why he had such a hard time accepting Vatican I, 93 00:06:12.889 --> 00:06:15.569 which is the council which stated papal infallibility and the 94 00:06:15.649 --> 00:06:20.139 universal headship and authority of the Roman pontiff. for their dogma, 95 00:06:20.170 --> 00:06:23.370 for their church. And so he lists all of these reasons, 96 00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:27.930 and he says one of the strongest problems with this 97 00:06:27.970 --> 00:06:34.550 position is that Pope Gregory VII in the 11th century 98 00:06:34.610 --> 00:06:38.550 called a council in Rome, I think in 1080, and 99 00:06:38.569 --> 00:06:42.569 he says, he uses Matthew 16 about the keys and 100 00:06:42.610 --> 00:06:45.540 binding and loosing, not just about the bishop of Rome, 101 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:50.779 but about worldly power. And if the bishop of Rome 102 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:54.899 decides he needs your army or your kingdom, you give 103 00:06:54.939 --> 00:06:57.870 it to him or you're damned. And he says this 104 00:06:57.930 --> 00:07:00.750 to me is just unheard of in the first thousand 105 00:07:00.769 --> 00:07:03.430 years of the church. In fact, you have canons at 106 00:07:03.470 --> 00:07:07.569 Chalcedon and other ecumenical, Trollo, other what are considered ecumenical 107 00:07:07.610 --> 00:07:11.850 for Orthodox especially. The idea that you cannot be in 108 00:07:11.910 --> 00:07:15.209 a civil office if you're a religious leader. So a 109 00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:17.730 bishop can't be a king. He can't be a duke. 110 00:07:18.889 --> 00:07:22.470 Not supposed to. That has happened sometimes. But ironically, the 111 00:07:22.509 --> 00:07:26.709 entire papacy from the 11th to 14th, all the weapons 112 00:07:26.769 --> 00:07:29.370 of Vatican I, because they still had the temporal supremacy 113 00:07:29.410 --> 00:07:32.209 doctrine as necessary, even at the time of Vatican I, 114 00:07:32.449 --> 00:07:34.680 it's mentioned in the syllabus of errors of Pius IX, 115 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:40.600 which is part of Vatican I. It's essentially a worldly, 116 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.420 a conflating of the two heads of the eagle. You 117 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.269 have the Byzantine eagle, one body of the people, But 118 00:07:48.290 --> 00:07:51.120 there's a temporal sphere and there's a spiritual sphere, two heads. 119 00:07:51.810 --> 00:07:52.980 Eternity and history. 120 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.740 It's one body of the people. But this is essentially 121 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:04.079 to conflate the two into a, it's a making of 122 00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.779 the church a state. And when you do this, you 123 00:08:07.819 --> 00:08:12.120 begin to erode the order that I believe was already 124 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:15.829 normative and established and sort of divine. Essentially, it's a 125 00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:17.689 Protestantizing before the Protestants. 126 00:08:17.709 --> 00:08:17.850 St. 127 00:08:17.889 --> 00:08:22.910 Justin Popovich says the papacy is the first Protestant. And 128 00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:26.709 I think that's accurate because the fracturing that many Roman Catholics, 129 00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:30.480 and they're very angry about the Reformation, you couldn't have 130 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:33.320 had that had you not had the Reformation in the 131 00:08:33.620 --> 00:08:36.980 11th century of the papacy. So all of that's necessary 132 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:43.759 to understand why. And of course it's possible, and many bishoprics, patriarchates, 133 00:08:44.309 --> 00:08:48.129 have been co-opted by politics, have been, you know, you've. 134 00:08:48.009 --> 00:08:51.210 Had- Just let's say to Byzantium, the story of Byzantium, 135 00:08:51.230 --> 00:08:56.269 the amount of really ugly stuff happening between an emperor 136 00:08:56.309 --> 00:08:58.210 and a patriarch is astonishing. 137 00:08:58.309 --> 00:08:59.909 So I
want to be clear that we're not saying 138 00:08:59.950 --> 00:09:03.139 that in the Orthodox world and in the history of 139 00:09:03.149 --> 00:09:06.360 the Orthodox Church that we're free from that. We're not 140 00:09:06.379 --> 00:09:09.659 saying that at all. We're saying that similar problems. And 141 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:16.259 the difference is that Rome- dogmatizes this problem as orthodox 142 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:19.850 and good it is now good that the papacy and 143 00:09:19.870 --> 00:09:21.809 of course the argument is well we want to be 144 00:09:21.850 --> 00:09:25.570 above the temporal ruler so the temporal ruler can't interfere 145 00:09:25.590 --> 00:09:28.429 with the church but that doesn't stop the temporal ruler 146 00:09:28.450 --> 00:09:29.710 from interfering with the church as we see in the 147 00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:33.450 11th century because the german kings install for 70 years 148 00:09:34.149 --> 00:09:38.179 german kings or they're It's a sort of nepotism to 149 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:39.159 control the opposite papacy. 150 00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:41.080 And then there was the famous Avignon. 151 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:44.340 We have the papacy moving to France for 70 years. 152 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:46.480 We have the Great Western Schism where we get three 153 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.610 rival popes claiming to be the true pope. And then 154 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:53.850 what ends up solving this is the Council of Constance, 155 00:09:53.990 --> 00:09:57.049 which puts out a document called Hac Sancta, which is 156 00:09:57.100 --> 00:10:01.519 admitted by today's papal canonists and lawyers to be the 157 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:03.519 actual product of the council. It's not a forgery. And 158 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.419 the council says the council has determined it will be 159 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.799 the pope. Well, that's contrary to Vatican I because Vatican 160 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:12.059 I says there is no council above the pope. No 161 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.490 council will determine or tell the popes anything. The pope 162 00:10:14.539 --> 00:10:18.039 tells the council what to do. So it's a problem 163 00:10:18.139 --> 00:10:20.970 for the papacy in terms of Vatican I with Hox Sancta. 164 00:10:20.990 --> 00:10:23.809 And by the way, Dollinger admits all these things. And 165 00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:25.769 at the end of the day, when Dollinger was told, 166 00:10:26.269 --> 00:10:29.210 you know, what are you going to do? He says, well, 167 00:10:29.690 --> 00:10:32.009 I can't support Vatican I. And they said, well, then 168 00:10:32.029 --> 00:10:35.059 we'll actually communicate you. So he was forced into supporting 169 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:38.879 Vatican I. So I think this is a great example 170 00:10:38.919 --> 00:10:42.539 of like, when we say what's the problem with the papacy, 171 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:46.279 it's not, uh, one particular Pope, one particular point in time, 172 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:51.269 it's many centuries of sort of innovation stacked upon, stacked upon, 173 00:10:51.289 --> 00:10:57.029 stacked upon many, many forgeries, uh, many, many instances of nepotism, 174 00:10:57.169 --> 00:10:59.090 you know, by the time of the Renaissance papacy is 175 00:10:59.110 --> 00:11:01.870 probably the worst. You get Alexander the sixth, who's essentially, 176 00:11:03.070 --> 00:11:05.250 he has a whore. He has essentially an entire whorehouse 177 00:11:05.269 --> 00:11:07.649 that he runs next to the Vatican. Uh, so, uh, 178 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.179 And a standing army, et cetera. 179 00:11:11.740 --> 00:11:15.559 I just wanted to say it's important, specifically because we're 180 00:11:15.580 --> 00:11:20.590 talking about this kind of big power play. Individually speaking, 181 00:11:20.610 --> 00:11:25.409 the emphasis is definitely not on the individual's fault. Even 182 00:11:26.850 --> 00:11:30.970 from our perspective, the most perfect people would still end 183 00:11:31.029 --> 00:11:36.830 up doing mistakes following the principles which laid in the 184 00:11:36.870 --> 00:11:40.990 foundation of this let's say church because before we talked 185 00:11:41.049 --> 00:11:46.129 about guys with pretty radical esoteric stuff clearly you don't 186 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:48.820 expect when we talk about Vatican on the same field 187 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:51.700 and I would say that yes from the beginning it's 188 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.340 not exactly the same field Vatican comes from a different 189 00:11:55.379 --> 00:12:01.759 source it comes from this unique different interpretation from orthodoxy 190 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:06.240 of this binding and loosing principle. It's interpreting binding and 191 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:12.830 loosing essentially, not just, obviously, it's still on a daily 192 00:12:12.870 --> 00:12:15.830 practice and regular Catholic life, it's still kind of the 193 00:12:15.870 --> 00:12:18.950 same spiritual matter, but it also adds to it, if 194 00:12:18.990 --> 00:12:22.669 you want to call it geopolitical binding and loosing. It 195 00:12:22.990 --> 00:12:26.980 basically brings it to an idea that essentially in the 196 00:12:27.039 --> 00:12:31.330 vision of, ideal vision of the future would be all 197 00:12:31.370 --> 00:12:36.210 the people united under the banner of the Pope, spiritual 198 00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:39.710 banner of the Pope, and all of the earth's sovereigns 199 00:12:40.169 --> 00:12:44.480 would be accountable to him one way or the other. 200 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.899 The way might differ. Again, it follows from this interpretation 201 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:49.879 that that's what binding and loosing mean, and it kind 202 00:12:49.940 --> 00:12:52.299 of makes sense. You could even say that, again, if 203 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.340 I'm providing a charitable reading, which I think is important, 204 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.250
look in a history. History is pretty messy. Petty squabbles, 205 00:12:59.929 --> 00:13:04.070 this wild beast's tribe, even like these demonic forces running around, 206 00:13:04.450 --> 00:13:07.750 somebody needs to take responsibility, somebody needs to become the 207 00:13:07.830 --> 00:13:11.750 true point of universal reference. Right. And that's, I would say, 208 00:13:11.809 --> 00:13:17.269 something internal people appeal stands on, and it is actually 209 00:13:17.309 --> 00:13:21.409 very strong. You can definitely see, even if we talk 210 00:13:21.450 --> 00:13:22.620 about different. 211 00:13:23.980 --> 00:13:27.559 Religious denominations, and yes, unfortunately, many Orthodox churches have this 212 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:33.220 weird respect towards this Roman principles. And we won't lie, historically, 213 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:36.649 multiple times Orthodox patriarchs kind of wanted to be the 214 00:13:36.690 --> 00:13:41.429 pope of themselves. There is absolutely understandable huge temptation. Just 215 00:13:41.490 --> 00:13:45.490 historically speaking, the Rome as a city, the seat of 216 00:13:45.529 --> 00:13:49.340 Rome started to do it really early, build it up 217 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:53.320 a lot of experience, a lot of strength, a lot 218 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.980 of capacities and still pretty loyal to this i would 219 00:13:59.019 --> 00:14:02.940 say vision which becomes very flexible we will go into 220 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.570 a bit into later the consequences which follow from this 221 00:14:05.629 --> 00:14:08.649 idea but please just correct me if i'm wrong again 222 00:14:08.690 --> 00:14:11.009 i trust your expertise like did i sum it up 223 00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:13.549 more or less correctly so the idea so if you 224 00:14:13.570 --> 00:14:15.820 were to reframe it as a positive view so because 225 00:14:15.860 --> 00:14:17.990 we're trying to understand what is this kind of driving 226 00:14:18.070 --> 00:14:21.289 force inside, which is because people don't follow bad things. 227 00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:22.769 They need to believe that things are good. 228 00:14:22.789 --> 00:14:25.850 So why would to steel man, the position, the argument 229 00:14:25.889 --> 00:14:29.750 would be, we have this long track record in history 230 00:14:30.049 --> 00:14:33.409 of Kings and emperors involving themselves in the church and 231 00:14:33.450 --> 00:14:36.509 trying to control it. So it's a legitimate problem. Just 232 00:14:36.549 --> 00:14:41.389 like with, uh, Curtis Yarvin and the cathedral would agree 233 00:14:41.429 --> 00:14:43.769 with many of his criticisms. We do live in this 234 00:14:43.809 --> 00:14:48.730 sort of falsely erected, you know, essentially religious world that, 235 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:50.870 you know, has all these problems, but does he have 236 00:14:50.889 --> 00:14:54.250 the right solutions? Same with the papacy. The idea is that, yes, 237 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.389
we've got essentially, you know, Rome falls around 400. There's 238 00:14:58.429 --> 00:15:01.429 no political power in the West. And so the papacy 239 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:06.029 as a sort of cultural influence and cohesive unit steps 240 00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:08.620 in to fill that role. So you could, we could 241 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.500 still man it by saying that it's understandable that the 242 00:15:11.539 --> 00:15:16.519 papacy would sort of inadvertently begin to accrue political power, 243 00:15:17.490 --> 00:15:20.509 and you have the papal states, etc. When the empire 244 00:15:20.549 --> 00:15:23.480 has moved to Constantinople, the center of the empire is 245 00:15:23.509 --> 00:15:24.700 not in Rome anymore. 246 00:15:24.980 --> 00:15:26.029 It's in Constantinople. 247 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:31.659 And so Rome fills a vacuum. And then because of 248 00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:36.139 its apostolic pedigree, being doubly apostolic, again, you get this 249 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:39.500 sort of evolving idea throughout the councils and the disputes 250 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.820 of those first thousand years that Well, maybe we are 251 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:47.399 also given temporal supremacy, and this can solve so many 252 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.399 of these problems. One of the reasons that Gregory was 253 00:15:50.460 --> 00:15:54.080 successful in the 11th century with his papal revolution is 254 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:55.980 because of what's called the investiture controversy. 255 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:56.580 And this is the. 256 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.440 Idea that who's going to really be the authority in 257 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.179 the church? Is it a Christian king or is it 258 00:16:02.299 --> 00:16:05.879 a patriarch or the pope? And ultimately, Rome decides that 259 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:08.200 the solution is just simply to defer to the pope. 260 00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:08.419 Yeah. 261 00:16:08.850 --> 00:16:11.809 And there's an admitted revolution in that century, again, by 262 00:16:11.850 --> 00:16:15.210 all the modern Catholic historians and theologians, that the 11th 263 00:16:15.230 --> 00:16:19.129 century is an ecclesiological revolution to the extent that now 264 00:16:20.029 --> 00:16:22.700 all bishops in the world will be confirmed by the pope. 265 00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:23.980 Yes. All of them. 266 00:16:24.289 --> 00:16:27.059 And, of course, you can see why, if you're the pope, 267 00:16:27.139 --> 00:16:30.080 that would ensure that you've got men on your side, right? 268 00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:32.659 So there's not going to be any rebellious, you know. 269 00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:36.450 people that don't agree with the papacy. But this ends 270 00:16:36.549 --> 00:16:40.929 up schisming the church between four patriarchs and one patriarch, right, 271 00:16:40.970 --> 00:16:45.360 in Rome versus the others. And so we have essentially 272 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:49.500 now a giant divide in Christendom, and both go in 273 00:16:49.539 --> 00:16:54.799 the trajectory that you might expect. Rome continues to evolve 274 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:58.779 in the direction that it evolves. Thus, we've begun the 275 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.139 principle of innovation and revolution. This is so crucial because 276 00:17:03.850 --> 00:17:06.650 I agree with, uh, you know, our saints that you 277 00:17:06.670 --> 00:17:10.369 really couldn't have these later reformations and revolutions had you 278 00:17:10.410 --> 00:17:12.950 not had the papal revolution first, it prepares the way. 279 00:17:13.009 --> 00:17:16.059 Another thing it does, for example, is create, it's sort 280 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.539 of a secularizing of the church is the key point. 281 00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:23.559 It creates for the first time ever monastic military orders. 282 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:26.690 We've never seen this before. This is a huge criticism 283 00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:29.009 that Papa, uh, Papa Doc is in my indoors making 284 00:17:29.029 --> 00:17:33.420 their excellent book on the 1400s. Um, And so you 285 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:33.980 can clearly. 286 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.519 But still manic it. It makes sense. So you need 287 00:17:36.539 --> 00:17:40.549 a military force, not to pettish squabbles of like kings 288 00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:45.690 fighting over who inherits what and fights for something actually important. 289 00:17:45.950 --> 00:17:48.910 And looking into, for example, modern system, you can easily 290 00:17:48.970 --> 00:17:52.309 see how this sounds in a messy world, very appealing. 291 00:17:52.589 --> 00:17:55.609 It does, but the problem is, yeah, so, you know, 292 00:17:55.670 --> 00:17:59.730 we already have kind of a providential canonical norm in 293 00:17:59.750 --> 00:18:02.809 the first thousand years of the relationship between church and state, 294 00:18:02.890 --> 00:18:05.349 you have the business in imperium, you have the patriarchates, 295 00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:09.390 et cetera. And then you get the idea that, well, 296 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:12.940 what if we set up a rival Western emperor? And 297 00:18:12.980 --> 00:18:16.039 so you get Charlemagne in 800, you get, uh, and, 298 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:18.000 and to be fair to the Pope of that time, um, 299 00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:23.569 even when Charlemagne began in his Carolinian court, they began to, uh, 300 00:18:23.769 --> 00:18:27.809 enact certain teachings that were heterodox. For example, they didn't, 301 00:18:28.130 --> 00:18:30.250 they didn't believe in, and they didn't believe in the 302 00:18:30.269 --> 00:18:32.960 seventh ecumenical council. And to the credit of the Pope 303 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:37.710 at that time, the Pope was pro-Seventh Council against the Carolinians. 304 00:18:37.789 --> 00:18:43.109 But you begin to see this era of devolution, right? 305 00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:43.569 And then St. 306 00:18:43.609 -->
00:18:46.470 Photius, for example, in his letters, he complains that the 307 00:18:46.529 --> 00:18:53.170 Frankish missionaries had sent filioquist Latinizers into areas of Bulgaria 308 00:18:53.190 --> 00:18:56.289 and Orthodox countries. So even in the 800s, this problem 309 00:18:56.329 --> 00:18:59.940 is beginning to arise between the two churches. But it 310 00:18:59.980 --> 00:19:02.589 doesn't come to full fruition until, again, many centuries later 311 00:19:02.730 --> 00:19:04.630 when you get this full divide. I think it's more 312 00:19:04.710 --> 00:19:08.769 accurate to say that orthodoxy continues the model of the 313 00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:10.910 first millennium. And then what you get in the West 314 00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:14.589 is more of a Franco-Papal model. 315 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:15.390 Of what the church is. 316 00:19:16.109 --> 00:19:18.509 And I think that's exactly what happened. 317 00:19:18.690 --> 00:19:23.299 On secularism, important just as an image, why it's happening 318 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:27.160 naturally within this context, and it's relevant nowadays. So as 319 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:29.339 I mentioned, an idea of a garden, and a garden 320 00:19:29.380 --> 00:19:32.220 needs a gardener. And there is nothing better exactly in it. 321 00:19:32.420 --> 00:19:34.910 We are all like from Christian perspective are called to 322 00:19:34.950 --> 00:19:39.589 be a gardener, etc. Eden was a gardener. However, what's 323 00:19:39.990 --> 00:19:44.049 this imperative to secularizing? It happens exactly against the background 324 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:49.079 of this eschatological anxiety. Well, there is this like seculum space, basically. 325 00:19:49.099 --> 00:19:51.220 It's a space before first and second coming of Christ, 326 00:19:51.259 --> 00:19:53.099 and we need to kind of do something to make 327 00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:56.359 this seculum place as sorry, nice, and possible. And it's 328 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.900 all messy around. Everybody's illiterate. We need to change this. 329 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:03.240 We need to improve morals here. We need, like, the 330 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:07.569 idea of improving morals again as a conscious social effort 331 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:13.079 becomes necessary Actually, the very language of later reforms and revolutions, 332 00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:16.519 many ways starting to appear back then, like in the 333 00:20:16.539 --> 00:20:20.859 Gregorian Revolution. Often it's considered exactly as a sacred duty. 334 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.960 So if I want to understand the spirit behind Vatican, 335 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:28.089 so why it makes really strong player so legitimately, it has, 336 00:20:29.690 --> 00:20:33.910 especially openly, the best possible foundation, the truth of Jesus Christ, 337 00:20:34.450 --> 00:20:37.269 the rock of Peter, which supposedly stand on, It's a 338 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:41.450 huge moral imperative to perform your duty as a shepherd 339 00:20:42.069 --> 00:20:46.650 over the chaotic, over the chaos of a secular life. 340 00:20:47.150 --> 00:20:50.660 Without going into all of this church history and without 341 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:55.359 understanding all of these levels why it is wrong, if 342 00:20:55.380 --> 00:20:57.559 you just stop here, it is very appealing. I can 343 00:20:57.579 --> 00:20:59.839 definitely give it to this. It's quite easy to defend 344 00:20:59.859 --> 00:21:03.109 this position. That's why it stands so long despite, let's say, 345 00:21:03.230 --> 00:21:05.210 other tribe opening up and it seems like, oh, they 346 00:21:05.250 --> 00:21:08.160 will become irrelevant. And you still see that papacy keeps 347 00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:12.180 being very relevant in almost anywhere and anything globally from 348 00:21:12.220 --> 00:21:16.200 this millennia ago to 2026 right now. Context of war 349 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:20.019 in Ukraine, who is now in this post-secular Europe, ended 350 00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:23.700 up being the representative of the European Brussels globalist position, 351 00:21:23.980 --> 00:21:28.839 the papal representatives, the Cardinal Gallagher, the Giuseppe, I think, 352 00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.660 the other guy who is coming again. But for Vatican 353 00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:35.619 is not even, I would say, they would be offended 354 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:37.700 if it says that it's just the power grab move 355 00:21:37.819 --> 00:21:40.190 or they want the power. No, it's the duty of 356 00:21:40.210 --> 00:21:41.750 a shepherd, something like this. 357 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:48.390 But I think what's misunderstood is spheres of authority. 358 00:21:48.549 --> 00:21:48.690 Yeah. 359 00:21:49.190 --> 00:21:52.970 And this is what had already been outlined canonically in, 360 00:21:53.230 --> 00:21:54.720 and I'm reading a book right now on the history 361 00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:57.940 of the canons of the church. And there's pretty clearly 362 00:21:57.980 --> 00:22:02.450 a delineation, you know, between what's proper for members of 363 00:22:02.470 --> 00:22:07.160 the clergy versus what's proper for members of the state. 364 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.819 And they do have overlap. And certainly spiritually speaking, we 365 00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:15.329 think that the spiritual authority is above the temporal, but 366 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:18.890 we don't conclude from that, that everything that the temporal 367 00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:22.089 has is therefore what the spiritual has. And that's the 368 00:22:22.150 --> 00:22:25.799 first false move of the Gregorian era is that, well, 369 00:22:26.410 --> 00:22:29.079 Logically speaking, you can see this in Dictatus Pape. The 370 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:31.890 argumentation is, well, if I have the authority spiritually and 371 00:22:31.910 --> 00:22:35.880 the spiritual above the temporal, then I also logically also 372 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:39.240 have
the sword above all the kings, the temporal sword. 373 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:39.680 Right. 374 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:44.539 So the idea that the church deals with the spiritual, 375 00:22:45.099 --> 00:22:48.019 the soul of man, the state deals with the body, 376 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.720 the physical side of man, that's fine. And that was 377 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:55.160 a common first millennium idea. The problem becomes when the 378 00:22:55.220 --> 00:22:58.640 spiritual then says, I am above all of the other 379 00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.640 spiritual brethren, and I also have the temporal sword above 380 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.250 all of the kings. So there is no easy solution 381 00:23:06.369 --> 00:23:09.910 to a real problem. But again, much like with technocrats, 382 00:23:10.450 --> 00:23:12.470 they might see real problems, but that doesn't mean that 383 00:23:12.490 --> 00:23:14.269 they have the right solution. And it's the same way 384 00:23:14.329 --> 00:23:17.829 as like, do we really want, you know, one guy 385 00:23:17.869 --> 00:23:20.920 over there in Rome with standing armies to at will 386 00:23:20.980 --> 00:23:24.319 be able to essentially... damn and excommunicate entire kingdoms. It 387 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:28.359 seems absurd because you have in the first thousand years 388 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:34.150 canonical jurisdictional principles where bishops are many times in councils 389 00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:37.750 castigated for going outside of their jurisdictions and meddling in 390 00:23:37.789 --> 00:23:41.829 other jurisdictions, including patriarchates. And that's always been a squabble. 391 00:23:42.029 --> 00:23:44.390 But again, the fact that there's that real problem, it 392 00:23:44.410 --> 00:23:46.869 doesn't follow that this is the solution to that squabble. 393 00:23:47.509 --> 00:23:51.690 And the problem is, as other Orthodox theologians later highlight, 394 00:23:52.710 --> 00:23:54.849 And pay attention to what I'm saying, because this is 395 00:23:54.869 --> 00:23:58.089 a very often missed critique. People misunderstand what I'm saying. 396 00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:01.769 If we are correct in this critique, then what this 397 00:24:01.849 --> 00:24:09.640 actually does is it actually desacralizes the secular temporal sphere. 398 00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:12.559 And I'm not saying that there is technically a secular realm. 399 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:14.160 I'm just saying that that's what we call the realm 400 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:17.400 that's not directly dealing with religious affairs, right? So we 401 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:20.799 talk about the polis or, you know, the government. We 402 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:24.740 already had a pretty clear idea that there is Christian governance. 403 00:24:25.059 --> 00:24:28.390 When a society is Christianized, there's a Christian emperor, there 404 00:24:28.410 --> 00:24:31.569 are Christian kings. They have duties to God. They're not 405 00:24:31.650 --> 00:24:34.170 identical to the duties of the priesthood and the bishops, 406 00:24:34.289 --> 00:24:38.329 but the Byzantine emperor is a diakonos. He sits behind 407 00:24:38.390 --> 00:24:41.920 the iconostasis. He has a role, like a deacon almost, 408 00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:47.259 but not fully sacerdotal, but almost, kind of. So there 409 00:24:47.299 --> 00:24:51.250 is this sacred duty, and the political... temporal realm is 410 00:24:51.289 --> 00:24:59.500 still sacred. But if you take the spiritual domain, identify 411 00:24:59.539 --> 00:25:06.279 it as essentially a geopolitical power structure, what you've actually 412 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:11.480 done is secularized the state without knowing it. And that's 413 00:25:11.509 --> 00:25:13.970 what actually, as many saints have said this, that's actually 414 00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:18.049 what prepares the way for a secular society. Because what 415 00:25:18.089 --> 00:25:20.890 happens is you get this revolution against And this is 416 00:25:20.930 --> 00:25:23.549 what happens in the Reformation. It's not just about Luther's 417 00:25:23.589 --> 00:25:27.220 theology of justification. Luther gets the German princes on his 418 00:25:27.259 --> 00:25:29.039 side to support him because they're tired of the pope 419 00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:33.420 meddling in affairs thousands of miles away, right? A hundred 420 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.700 miles away, whatever. But the same idea applies. It's sort 421 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:40.119 of like, yes, we can understand the problem of the 422 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:44.180 kings interfering in the church and why the papacy would 423 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:47.569 say we are the solution to that problem. But conversely, 424 00:25:47.589 --> 00:25:49.230 we can also then begin to say, well, wait a minute. 425 00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.079 What if the papacy becomes corrupt, acts like a tyrannical king? 426 00:25:53.599 --> 00:25:55.359 We have the same problem, although it now is worse 427 00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:59.740 because now we have this priest king who is essentially 428 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.619 doing the same thing the kings were doing. And then 429 00:26:02.779 --> 00:26:07.559 you get the reformers and their state magistrates supporting the reform, 430 00:26:08.259 --> 00:26:12.079 probably not even out of theological, but out of get 431 00:26:12.099 --> 00:26:14.079 the pope out of our affairs. 432 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:16.230 I think, yeah, I think in the long term, It 433 00:26:16.490 --> 00:26:20.700 really paves the way to, our generous viewer might say, 434 00:26:22.019 --> 00:26:25.220 it sounds way older from the perspective of what we 435 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.720 did before, but actually what you described right now in 436 00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:31.789 many ways paves the way for everything we talked in 437 00:26:31.809 --> 00:26:35.009 the previous episodes. What I mean, you end up in 438 00:26:35.029 -->
00:26:42.740 this weird situation when everything politically open becomes desacretized. It's 439 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:45.539 just about rationality, pragmatism, supposedly. 440 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:45.680 Yes. 441 00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:52.279 Everything openly spiritually moves into the private. 442 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:52.799 Matters of the heart. 443 00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:55.940 Or, as we know in the common people, well, you 444 00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:57.819 can believe in whatever you want to believe in, your 445 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.700 own home, you can be this denomination, this denomination, but 446 00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:04.599 there is no space for it in a big public sphere, 447 00:27:04.660 --> 00:27:08.619 which later becomes what is called autonomy of human conscience, 448 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:12.700 basically your own moral principle for which you are accountable to. 449 00:27:13.180 --> 00:27:19.210 But on the third level, because... By nature, everything is meaning-laden. 450 00:27:19.349 --> 00:27:22.829 Everything is theological. By nature, it has a theological element. 451 00:27:23.150 --> 00:27:26.730 So this split cannot hold unless you will do a 452 00:27:26.769 --> 00:27:30.609 third shift, which will move the real theological meaning into 453 00:27:30.650 --> 00:27:37.269 this hidden, let's say, behind-the-scenes areas. It esoterizes, I think. 454 00:27:37.490 --> 00:27:41.289 So the only spiritual becomes, again, esoteric. And that's kind 455 00:27:41.349 --> 00:27:46.019 of the move from which modernity erupts. And yes, later 456 00:27:46.059 --> 00:27:48.819 you have power groups. And what is more, and I 457 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.930 think that what comes like a real big unintended consequences 458 00:27:52.029 --> 00:27:55.190 for papacy and why, for example, I don't put Orthodox 459 00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:57.690 patriarchs in the same group. Well, one of them, they're 460 00:27:57.710 --> 00:28:01.579 not that present in America, but other is once you 461 00:28:01.599 --> 00:28:05.200 made this move and you already understand yourself as a 462 00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:11.180 shepherd responsible also for worldly, very much worldly power geopolitical affairs, 463 00:28:12.019 --> 00:28:17.519 you actually end up having to mimic this esoteric structure 464 00:28:17.539 --> 00:28:18.880 to just be able to compete. 465 00:28:18.940 --> 00:28:20.900 To compete. A great point. Great, great point. 466 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:21.480 Exactly. 467 00:28:22.099 --> 00:28:24.880 That's essentially what I meant by the secularizing, meaning that 468 00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.470 it essentially becomes like any other geopolitical world power using 469 00:28:30.490 --> 00:28:34.470 all the same techniques of espionage, banking. And that's why 470 00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:36.329 I want to move up to, you know, to make 471 00:28:36.369 --> 00:28:38.589 this more relevant to where we are now, because what 472 00:28:38.609
--> 00:28:43.289 happens is you know, the Papal States is a land group, 473 00:28:43.349 --> 00:28:45.690 a land mass for a time, and it begins to 474 00:28:45.829 --> 00:28:52.559 lose dominion, lose power. Up into the 1800s, they begin to, again, lose. 475 00:28:52.660 --> 00:28:56.700 And as you get Garibaldi, you get Masonic revolutions in Italy, 476 00:28:57.099 --> 00:29:00.839 they lose more and more of their lands and their holdings. 477 00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:02.700 I mean, and it's important, like, when we talk about 478 00:29:02.740 --> 00:29:07.359 Masons historically, to understand that important historical context, but for 479 00:29:07.380 --> 00:29:11.869 several millennia, the two biggest intelligence service opponents of each 480 00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:14.849 other were Jesuits on the one hand and MI6 on 481 00:29:14.869 --> 00:29:17.869 the other or British Secret Service on the other so 482 00:29:17.910 --> 00:29:21.920 British Secret Service was specifically established by Queen Elizabeth as 483 00:29:21.980 --> 00:29:25.380 an alternative which will later develop into Rothstein project but 484 00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:29.440 they were literally developed to counter Vatican influence in Britain 485 00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:32.200 which Again, I don't likely need to defend either, but 486 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:36.309 you can see how this reaction, counter-reaction starts, these wheels 487 00:29:36.329 --> 00:29:39.470 are starting to simply work around. So because you're in 488 00:29:39.509 --> 00:29:44.460 this game, and you already created this esotericism, hidden meanings, 489 00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:48.619 hidden place, you end up having to fight. Basically, fight 490 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.680 between Masons on Vatican, like it's kind of one of 491 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.950 the biggest hidden, not that hidden in plain sight, you 492 00:29:55.990 --> 00:29:56.589 can say, but. 493 00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:03.500 Nerves of, let's say, last 400 years, maybe until very recently. 494 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:06.839 And the key point here is that it is precisely 495 00:30:06.859 --> 00:30:08.279 the Vatican that loses this battle. 496 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.519 Yeah. 497 00:30:09.559 --> 00:30:14.660 Because they've stepped into this domain of a kind of, 498 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:17.740 as Dostoevsky presents it, sort of deal with the devil, 499 00:30:17.869 --> 00:30:19.960 you could say, when you have the Inquisitor, you know, 500 00:30:20.049 --> 00:30:25.049 and Grand Inquisitor. And they've realized that in order to 501 00:30:25.109 --> 00:30:29.250 maintain the Vatican empire that we have, we will have 502 00:30:29.289 --> 00:30:32.289 to be more and more and more like the things 503 00:30:32.329 --> 00:30:33.430 that we're supposedly fighting. 504 00:30:34.049 --> 00:30:34.170 Yeah. 505 00:30:34.450 --> 00:30:36.450 And so what happens, and I'm glad you pointed out 506 00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:40.990 the British imperial
struggles, because you're absolutely right that, you know, 507 00:30:41.069 --> 00:30:45.390 initially the Jesuits are this sort of fringe order that's 508 00:30:45.450 --> 00:30:48.579 eventually sort of regularized. And there are these squabbles back 509 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.539 and forth for some time between being, you know, banned 510 00:30:51.579 --> 00:30:54.420 and then allowed back. And But eventually what happens is 511 00:30:54.799 --> 00:31:00.950 the Jesuits themselves, according to recent, extremely well-documented geopolitical texts, 512 00:31:01.430 --> 00:31:03.890 they eventually succumb to the Western power structure. 513 00:31:04.410 --> 00:31:07.150 What's the name of it? Yeah, so, and I. 514 00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:09.349 Meant to bring all the books, but I didn't think 515 00:31:09.369 --> 00:31:14.339 to bring them. So there's a great famous Catholic scholar 516 00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:16.460 and lawyer. His name is David Wimhoff, and he wrote 517 00:31:16.500 --> 00:31:18.880 a big 800-page book sort of detailing the history of 518 00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:23.990 the 20th century. from a geopolitics perspective of the Vatican 519 00:31:24.009 --> 00:31:26.529 and Vatican II. And what he demonstrates is some of 520 00:31:26.549 --> 00:31:30.710 the key Jesuits that were major players at Vatican II 521 00:31:31.410 --> 00:31:35.079 were 100% openly working with the CIA. So essentially the 522 00:31:35.130 --> 00:31:39.059 Western intelligence structure, maybe not the British Empire, but essentially 523 00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:42.799 the Pax Americana, were able to eventually step in and 524 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.730 say to the Vatican, look, we're not gonna maybe be 525 00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:52.579 able to get you right now to affirm every technocratic 526 00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:58.779 or antinatalist position, but we're going to want you to 527 00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:01.599 move in the direction of Americanism at Vatican II. And 528 00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:03.980 so the thesis of the book is essentially that what 529 00:32:04.019 --> 00:32:08.230 the Vatican had only a few decades earlier condemned as Americanism, 530 00:32:08.509 --> 00:32:14.029 the idea of liberty, equality, capitalism as the summum bonum 531 00:32:14.089 --> 00:32:19.000 of human life, that's not true. And that Catholicism in 532 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:25.480 America was being supplanted with Americanism first, Catholicism second. 533 00:32:25.819 --> 00:32:26.059 Yeah. 534 00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:28.240 And this has always been within American, all the way 535 00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.279 back to the founding of the country with the Carroll family. 536 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:33.400 This has been a struggle for Roman Catholicism in America. Well, 537 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:36.579 let's move to that. Well, this is important, though, because 538 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.559 it gets up to where we're with the Papal States, 539 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.299 the Vatican Bank, because are we more allegiant to the papacy? 540 00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:41.539 Yeah. 541 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.480 Or are we more allegiant to our nation? And that's 542 00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:46.029 a constant problem. Like, I brought Masons because, for example, 543 00:32:46.349 --> 00:32:51.000 this is the I don't know, claim Catholics always had 544 00:32:51.019 --> 00:32:54.240 to defend themselves, basically, when they, especially in America. 545 00:32:54.259 --> 00:32:54.779 Right. 546 00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:56.839 I mean, you don't know, but for the first. 547 00:32:56.859 --> 00:32:59.809 Let's say, 100 years, there was a super strong anti-Catholic 548 00:32:59.869 --> 00:33:04.869 sentiment in America, and there were lots of caricatures seeing 549 00:33:05.829 --> 00:33:08.109 them exactly as all of them as the Pope's agents 550 00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:11.259 and traitors. But, like, the question, double loyalty question. So, 551 00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:13.200 are you loyal to the Pope or are you loyal 552 00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:15.720 to America? Like, let's say, are you loyal to us 553 00:33:15.740 --> 00:33:17.880 Masons or are you loyal to the Pope? So, that 554 00:33:17.900 --> 00:33:19.859 would be It's a big conflict playing. 555 00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.799 And at the same time, throughout these centuries, again, so 556 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:26.690 you got geopolitical stuff with the papacy losing temporal power, 557 00:33:26.789 --> 00:33:31.690 the papal states, their land holdings, et cetera, being reduced. Essentially, 558 00:33:32.069 --> 00:33:33.670 Pius IX, the Pope of Vatican I, he ends up 559 00:33:33.710 --> 00:33:35.450 walled up in the Vatican with all the Masons and 560 00:33:35.490 --> 00:33:39.519 revolutionaries outside holding him. He's under house arrest. So that 561 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.549 prompted him to be more in line with the the 562 00:33:43.849 --> 00:33:45.910 idea of having Vatican I because he thought that would 563 00:33:45.930 --> 00:33:48.549 sort of shore up the power of the papacy. But 564 00:33:49.170 --> 00:33:51.269 here's what I'm getting to. This is the big picture here. 565 00:33:51.710 --> 00:33:55.369 What happens is in the 1830s, you begin to have 566 00:33:55.690 --> 00:34:00.769 significant Rothschild loans to the Vatican. The Vatican needs these 567 00:34:00.849 --> 00:34:04.200 loans because they're already indebted and they're losing land. I 568 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.760 think they lost significant portions, actually two other members of 569 00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:11.039 the Rothschild clan that were sent to the various countries. 570 00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.590 So now they're indebted and they end up taking out 571 00:34:14.650 --> 00:34:17.469 multiple loans. And so this puts them in significant amounts 572 00:34:17.510 --> 00:34:21.530 of debt. And the Rottos actually become the official Vatican 573 00:34:21.710 --> 00:34:25.070
bankers for a long time. And I think this is 574 00:34:25.110 --> 00:34:27.389 the key point of when we can begin to see 575 00:34:27.429 --> 00:34:30.110 this sort of downfall. At the same time as that's 576 00:34:30.150 --> 00:34:33.380 happening on the monetary side of the Vatican's problems, they're 577 00:34:33.409 --> 00:34:36.920 also ideologically losing a lot of ground to the Protestant Reformation, obviously, 578 00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:40.519 but also they're beginning to lose ground to liberalism. Liberalism 579 00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:45.010 theologically had crept into many, many Catholic universities in the 1890s. 580 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:50.260 And so you have the papacy beginning to release encyclical 581 00:34:50.300 --> 00:34:51.179 after encyclical. 582 00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:52.500 Condemning. 583 00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:00.269 Condemning, masonry, liberalism, naturalism, on and on, modernism. The sainted pope, right, 584 00:35:00.289 --> 00:35:03.389 Pius X, his most famous encyclical, Pacendi, is this giant 585 00:35:03.650 --> 00:35:10.039 refutation of, Everything from ecumenism to modernism to socialism, communism, 586 00:35:10.179 --> 00:35:14.300 everything is being condemned because they're sort of in panic 587 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:19.360 mode because they're losing massively. And then the Wim Hof book, 588 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:22.559 I think, is a key point to go beyond just 589 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:29.090 the theological issues to the American Western oligarchical power structure, 590 00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.789 which had been trying to get the Vatican to change 591 00:35:31.849 --> 00:35:36.530 its stances on abortion, contraception. these moral issues, which it 592 00:35:36.590 --> 00:35:39.139 would not do, even up to Paul VI, they had 593 00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:42.679 caved a little bit. But at Vatican II, what you 594 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:47.860 have is Jesuits coming in, admittedly, most famously John Courtney Murray, 595 00:35:47.900 --> 00:35:50.079 who worked with the CIA on what was called the 596 00:35:50.139 --> 00:35:53.849 Doctrinal Warfare Program. This was run by a guy named C.D. Jackson, 597 00:35:55.289 --> 00:35:57.989 who worked with Henry Luce of Time Magazine. And the 598 00:35:58.010 --> 00:36:00.329 whole project was essentially, number one, to get the Vatican 599 00:36:00.369 --> 00:36:06.460 on board with ecumenism, using the Vatican and the apparatus 600 00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:09.639 of the church as a form of soft power for Americanism, 601 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:12.969 that's why the CIA was so interested in this, against 602 00:36:13.570 --> 00:36:17.050 the Cold War, against the Soviets, against the communists. It 603 00:36:17.090 --> 00:36:21.849 becomes a form of soft power. The Vatican can announce ecumenism, 604 00:36:21.889 --> 00:36:23.510 and this is very important to understand because people don't 605 00:36:23.530 --> 00:36:31.219 understand this. Ecumenism is the religious application of Americanism. That's 606 00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:34.119 the thesis of the Wim Hof book. All of the 607 00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.289 early OSS guys, the guys that are going out and 608 00:36:37.329 --> 00:36:40.530 doing their operations with Bill Donovan, they were rabid ecumenists. 609 00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:45.829 The early recruits that the CIA had, even amongst people 610 00:36:45.849 --> 00:36:49.420 in the Vatican, were people like Father Felix Morleone, who 611 00:36:49.460 --> 00:36:53.880 was a famous Dominican ecumenist. Jacques Maritain comes in, and 612 00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:58.199 he's a key figure to influence Vatican II theology to 613 00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:05.309 move towards dechristianization of Christian states towards a secular pluralism. 614 00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:11.130 You have the Jesuits are even more radical as secular pluralists. 615 00:37:11.429 --> 00:37:15.590 So the idea is we can revamp and reform the 616 00:37:15.750 --> 00:37:19.670 image of Catholicism in the Vatican by now taking up 617 00:37:19.829 --> 00:37:25.610 the Reformation positions of radical religious liberty and religious pluralism. 618 00:37:25.909 --> 00:37:29.320 But the problem is that this church has already undergone 619 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:35.460 several revolutions to fit with the times. And as Vatican 620 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:38.110 I argued that we need to have a strong papal 621 00:37:38.150 --> 00:37:41.449 stance to fight the spirit of the times, the problem 622 00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:47.130 is that if your church is already acclimatized to a giornamento, 623 00:37:47.190 --> 00:37:50.050 as they call it, there's no reason why it can't 624 00:37:50.110 --> 00:37:53.570 go in a liberal direction. In other words, if you 625 00:37:53.590 --> 00:37:59.429 can renovate and innovate, there's no logic that dictates it 626 00:37:59.510 --> 00:38:02.909 has to be in a conservative direction. It can renovate 627 00:38:03.349 --> 00:38:05.230 in a liberal direction. And so that's why you see 628 00:38:05.289 --> 00:38:08.889 the swing at the time of Leo XIII with his 629 00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:16.800 strict traditional anti-Masonic, anti-communist dictates. Pius X basically the same. 630 00:38:17.860 --> 00:38:21.940 Pius XI still holds to this. But ironically, the one 631 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:24.690 guy that's kind of forgotten in there, Benedict XV, he 632 00:38:24.730 --> 00:38:27.780 was a liberal. Benedict XV supported League of Nations. He 633 00:38:27.820 --> 00:38:31.199 was pro-Fabian Socialist. Then you have this, so they got scared. 634 00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:33.500 Then you have this swing back with Pius XI towards, 635 00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:37.460 he bans ecumenism. He bans interfaith gatherings because he sees 636 00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:41.139 that in his encyclical, Mortalium Animus in 1928, as a 637 00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:46.489 surrendering of the faith. Then suddenly after Pius XII, the 638
00:38:46.510 --> 00:38:50.849 sort of last holdout of so-called conservatism, we get John XXIII, 639 00:38:51.349 --> 00:38:53.980 whom they called the Pink Pope. because he wrote Pacem 640 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.860 in Terris, this encyclical that we need world government. You've 641 00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:59.420 never seen this from a Pope before. Almost night and 642 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.360 day with what the ones before him had said. There 643 00:39:02.389 --> 00:39:05.329 was a lot of rumors that John XXIII was a 644 00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:08.429 Mason or a Rosicrucian. We don't know if that's verified, 645 00:39:08.449 --> 00:39:13.409 but it's a rumor. And then you get Paul VI, 646 00:39:13.650 --> 00:39:17.809 who is more explicitly, openly, who the CIA wanted, because 647 00:39:17.849 --> 00:39:20.260 they thought, we don't want another John XXIII. He wants 648 00:39:20.300 --> 00:39:24.429 to meet with the Soviets. He wants to bring the Soviets. 649 00:39:24.449 --> 00:39:27.289 He had these meetings, right? In fact, John XXIII was 650 00:39:27.309 --> 00:39:31.389 the first to bring Baptists into prayer ecumenical meetings in 651 00:39:31.409 --> 00:39:34.130 the Vatican, before Vatican II. So you already have with 652 00:39:34.150 --> 00:39:37.570 John XXIII a radical shift. And then with Paul VI, 653 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.119 the idea is not a return to conservatism. It's an 654 00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:46.360 American-friendly pope, the most American-friendly pope. And so he represents 655 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:50.989 a shift away from the pink pope to the CIA pope. explicitly. 656 00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:54.289 I just wanted to say, I guess to me, the 657 00:39:54.329 --> 00:39:57.570 story I want to share is this. It's actually happened 658 00:39:57.630 --> 00:40:02.230 in the movie. I remember this about the recent movie, 659 00:40:02.309 --> 00:40:06.789 I think it's from Coppola, about the Jesuit missionary in Japan. 660 00:40:07.090 --> 00:40:07.510 Have you seen it? 661 00:40:07.690 --> 00:40:09.070 I'm familiar with it, I've not seen it. I heard 662 00:40:09.090 --> 00:40:09.869 it's good, but yeah. 663 00:40:10.289 --> 00:40:14.039 It's pretty good, but it actually represents the ethos from 664 00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:19.400 the internal logic why these moves are possible. Uh, Because 665 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:24.000 to me, I think the key principle is since you 666 00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:26.260 have to shepherd and since you have to govern all 667 00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:30.150 of this messy area of power play, let me put 668 00:40:30.210 --> 00:40:32.969 it this way, which is, as we discussed, is inherently 669 00:40:33.210 --> 00:40:37.409 demonic in many ways. So like one way is Cybele, Isis, Gevestus, 670 00:40:37.449 --> 00:40:43.280 et cetera, et cetera. You might go through the periods 671 00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:45.699 where you accumulate more power. You can come through the 672 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:47.420 periods when you accumulate less power. 673 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:47.519 You. 674 00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:51.519 more successful, you're less successful. But you can definitely build 675 00:40:51.539 --> 00:40:55.099 yourself an argument. So you are preserving in yourself. So 676 00:40:55.500 --> 00:40:59.030 adapting to those periods of time. So you are preserving 677 00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:02.750 this core, this tiny wooden cross. So basically the gist 678 00:41:02.789 --> 00:41:05.170 of the movie, so this is a Portuguese missionary, he 679 00:41:05.230 --> 00:41:08.849 comes into Japan, and Japanese Christians are heavily prosecuted, and 680 00:41:08.889 --> 00:41:11.269 there is a whole story, and he is looking for 681 00:41:11.329 --> 00:41:14.250 his spiritual teacher who apparently became a heretical and now 682 00:41:14.309 --> 00:41:17.320 works for Japanese government, and he keeps looking and looking, 683 00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:20.599 he finally meets him, and he confirms, yes, it is happening, 684 00:41:20.659 --> 00:41:22.360 and he says that the soil of this land is 685 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.980 not good for Christianity, and all we are doing is 686 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:29.199 we are basically... making these people suffer for nothing that's 687 00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:31.780 kind of the story and then the hero goes through 688 00:41:31.820 --> 00:41:37.090 crisis that being witnessing his the last let's say the 689 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:42.010 church he's been preaching to members executed he just basically 690 00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:46.349 surrenders and then become a Japanese agent helping to absolutely 691 00:41:46.369 --> 00:41:50.469 he's looking for any form of hidden Christian goods smuggled 692 00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:52.869 into Japan and he's like spending most of his life 693 00:41:52.889 --> 00:41:55.969 like this he like, marries a Japanese woman. Basically, he's 694 00:41:56.010 --> 00:41:58.449 going all over. And then he's buried. And then in 695 00:41:58.469 --> 00:42:01.539 the final scene, he has this, basically, a tiny wooden 696 00:42:01.579 --> 00:42:05.119 cross in his hands like this when he's buried, which 697 00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:07.099 you can read as many symbols. But I think the 698 00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:10.679 symbol is he basically, in his way, keeps his face, 699 00:42:10.699 --> 00:42:13.860 but he's been doing the right things in this moment 700 00:42:13.900 --> 00:42:17.090 in a secular time. And why I think it's relevant 701 00:42:17.110 --> 00:42:19.070 to your story, because basically you can see how from 702 00:42:19.090 --> 00:42:19.590 this point. 703 00:42:21.429 --> 00:42:28.849 Banking rothschilds cia mi6 world government you kind of can 704 00:42:28.889 --> 00:42:33.650 really easily build an argument okay first position i'm strong 705 00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:36.570 enough so i can just fight it openly and i 706 00:42:36.690 --> 00:42:39.820 can prevent it from
happening openly i have princes i 707 00:42:39.860 --> 00:42:42.719 command i have armies i command i have all of 708 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:44.800 the things i can command and we can do it 709 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:48.000 as long as we can but we're moving later and 710 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:51.289 yes in this power struggle we'll Suffering defeats. 711 00:42:51.469 --> 00:42:52.989 Brits, huge defeats. 712 00:42:53.070 --> 00:42:56.409 And Masons in France, the favorite daughter of the church 713 00:42:56.429 --> 00:43:02.280 is becoming basically this horrible Masonic revolutionary hellscape and et cetera. 714 00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:04.820 Then revolution in Italy. Then we are losing. Like we've 715 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.159 already been in a banking, but we'll say some success, 716 00:43:07.179 --> 00:43:11.929 some unsuccessful like this, Rochelle. So what is the next 717 00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:14.949 back step if you can't fight something directly? 718 00:43:15.849 --> 00:43:16.409 You have a choice. 719 00:43:16.429 --> 00:43:20.260 You can either stand outside and just keep losing. Like, 720 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:24.639 but trying to keep this purity of faith and open 721 00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:29.800 purity of faith. Or you can do basically the trick 722 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:34.690 because your intentions are good. And this hidden trick is 723 00:43:34.949 --> 00:43:36.949 you actually is now starting to be want a part 724 00:43:36.969 --> 00:43:39.809 of every tribe. Now you want to hatch your bets. 725 00:43:39.889 --> 00:43:45.219 Now you want to basically get inside of every single Rothschild, CIA, MS, 726 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:50.440 like technocrats. Mm-hmm. as we will see recently, world government, 727 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:53.230 et cetera. Because basically, if you cannot defeat it, lead it. 728 00:43:54.070 --> 00:43:54.800 That's very. 729 00:43:54.860 --> 00:43:59.789 Yeah, in fact, and there are even writers, intellectuals from 730 00:43:59.929 --> 00:44:04.650 within that Vatican sphere who have said this. They've said essentially, well, 731 00:44:04.730 --> 00:44:09.010 what we're at is this nitty-gritty battle for control of 732 00:44:09.030 --> 00:44:12.170 the new world order, so to speak. Whatever that emerging 733 00:44:12.190 --> 00:44:15.829 world order is, we are going to have to adapt to... 734 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:19.239 to run it yeah so absolutely and that's why. 735 00:44:19.070 --> 00:44:21.489 Because who else run it so you can surrender your 736 00:44:21.530 --> 00:44:25.369 responsibility which you've been carrying for thousands of years or 737 00:44:25.389 --> 00:44:28.769 you have to adapt to if anything that's why I 738 00:44:28.789 --> 00:44:31.610 brought the film because it kind of it looks like 739 00:44:31.650 --> 00:44:34.139 a tragedy from an outsider but we already brought an 740 00:44:34.179 --> 00:44:38.659 esoteric element but esoterically speaking in a certain way it's 741 00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.699 a very heroic noble act and you still keep your 742 00:44:41.739 --> 00:44:44.659 face you still keep it like it's still this hidden 743 00:44:44.699 --> 00:44:48.389 in your But you're just going through the suffering of 744 00:44:48.469 --> 00:44:51.469 this period of time, so later something good might come 745 00:44:51.570 --> 00:44:54.190 out of it. And you can easily see how this 746 00:44:54.489 --> 00:44:59.659 problem of double influence starts becoming inescapable and even desirable. 747 00:44:59.739 --> 00:45:01.920 So you now want to be part of it. So 748 00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:05.940 to gain your resources back, okay. So the direct fight 749 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:10.269 with masons led to depleting our resources. Well, now let's 750 00:45:10.329 --> 00:45:14.550 blend together. Let's take control from the insects. Might have worked, 751 00:45:14.570 --> 00:45:17.800 might have not, but within this logic, it doesn't sound 752 00:45:17.900 --> 00:45:20.960 crazy to try. And it doesn't sound evil to try. 753 00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:26.579 What I'm saying is it is the 11th century geopolitical 754 00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.320 realpolitik just updated. 755 00:45:29.860 --> 00:45:30.500 Exactly. 756 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:32.840 That's what I'm saying. I'm showing how this logic, which 757 00:45:32.860 --> 00:45:35.260 you would say, what connects 11th century with the 20th. 758 00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:39.070 But logic actually stays the same. Context changes. And yes, 759 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.050 what looks... And that's why... actually, and I agree with 760 00:45:43.070 --> 00:45:47.090 you here, the position is consistent. It's context differs, and 761 00:45:47.130 --> 00:45:51.769 that's why it looks differently. But the core position actually 762 00:45:51.809 --> 00:45:55.090 stays consistent from back then till now. And that's what's 763 00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.119 kind of, I think, is Vatican justification. And then all 764 00:45:58.139 --> 00:46:01.619 of the strengths of the Vatican are still there. It's 765 00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:07.610 ultimately the biggest network ever exists. Like, network of priests, monasteries, 766 00:46:07.650 --> 00:46:11.309 for every possible way of life. Like, and For example, 767 00:46:11.570 --> 00:46:14.429 I actually learned recently that, I forgot the name, but 768 00:46:14.469 --> 00:46:18.929 apparently Jesuits are kind of becoming old, spent 400 years 769 00:46:18.969 --> 00:46:21.469 being up front. But for example, there is now all 770 00:46:21.550 --> 00:46:24.679 new different religious orders which are kind of integrating or 771 00:46:24.739 --> 00:46:30.840 proselytizing among hippies or proselytizing among, let's say, specific social 772 00:46:30.860 --> 00:46:33.559 groups in different places of, let's say, Latin America or etc. 773 00:46:33.579 --> 00:46:37.119 But basically, you can easily adapt. The structure is very adaptable. 774 00:46:37.159
--> 00:46:39.500 You can basically have a group of missionaries who will 775 00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:43.110 proselytize among let's say CIA, yes, and it will almost 776 00:46:43.150 --> 00:46:46.449 look indistinguishable by CIA, but within this logic, it's still 777 00:46:47.789 --> 00:46:51.429 an action of control and care and operation and ultimately 778 00:46:51.449 --> 00:46:54.670 for the greater good. And ultimately, there is nobody to judge. 779 00:46:55.150 --> 00:46:59.460 I think Russian author Alexander Sergeyevich Pushkin in his famous 780 00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:04.219 Boris Godunov play, he actually gives this Jesuit internal logic. 781 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.699 In my opinion, it's one of the most eloquent ways 782 00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:11.980 of showing the internal monologue. An internal monologue is something 783 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:15.159 like this in English, and then I will quote it 784 00:47:15.219 --> 00:47:20.320 in Russian. So in English it sounds like, sometimes you 785 00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:24.269 have a duty to hide your true intentions in front 786 00:47:24.309 --> 00:47:28.789 of the outside world, because people can only judge your actions, 787 00:47:29.230 --> 00:47:32.289 but the intentions of your heart will be judged only 788 00:47:32.329 --> 00:47:35.699 by God. And you see how it justifies this duplicity. 789 00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:38.889 So you can do many different things. Basically, it justifies, like, 790 00:47:38.929 --> 00:47:42.909 multiple ethical systems, in fact. But it is consistent in itself. 791 00:47:42.989 --> 00:47:45.969 And in Russian, it's like... So we have a sacred 792 00:47:45.989 --> 00:47:48.090 duty sometimes to carry masks in front of the audiences. 793 00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:50.579 That's kind of the... So it's a sacred duty to 794 00:47:50.599 --> 00:48:07.260 be an actor in front of the outsiders... your intentions 795 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.380 will be judged by God. And that justifies anything you're 796 00:48:10.400 --> 00:48:11.000 going to do later. 797 00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:15.280 Yeah, that's actually very, it's very Jesuit. It's also, you 798 00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:20.190 have within the Roman Catholic tradition, in fact, with people 799 00:48:20.230 --> 00:48:23.570 like Alphonsus Liguori, they even got to the point where 800 00:48:23.630 --> 00:48:27.349 they could, they had a whole list of exclusions that 801 00:48:27.389 --> 00:48:30.289 would allow you to lie. So you could actually lie 802 00:48:30.329 --> 00:48:34.929 in many cases with various ends justify the means based 803 00:48:35.150 --> 00:48:39.539 on the scenario, the situation, et cetera. But, you know, the, 804 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:41.659 the criticism is that, well, this ultimately is a sort 805 00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:45.250 of a Pandora's box of Kazustry to essentially, uh, almost 806 00:48:45.289 --> 00:48:48.130 like the Pharisees, you can then justify any of your 807 00:48:48.250 --> 00:48:51.710 actions conceivably. So any bad action could be justified by 808 00:48:51.769 --> 00:48:53.650 some potential, like exclusionary principle. 809 00:48:53.670 --> 00:48:56.110 And remember before, like, then that's why was this story, 810 00:48:56.130 --> 00:48:58.800 this old story of the split with the councils matters 811 00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.159 so much because there is no authority above you. There 812 00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.590 is no equal, even in theory. Which can hold you 813 00:49:04.630 --> 00:49:05.809 to true accountability. 814 00:49:05.849 --> 00:49:06.199 Exactly. 815 00:49:06.699 --> 00:49:09.119 But here's the problem, though, is that that wedding to, 816 00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:14.980 you know, worldly geopolitical machinations and intrigues eventually ends up 817 00:49:15.059 --> 00:49:19.739 making you a sort of, you are essentially pimped out. 818 00:49:20.050 --> 00:49:20.380 Right? 819 00:49:20.409 --> 00:49:24.239 You're essentially a whore to whichever power structure is able 820 00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:25.559 to control and subvert you. 821 00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.639 And that's what we actually- Well, I think people will, 822 00:49:29.219 --> 00:49:31.260 who pimps out who? I think that's what would be 823 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:31.639 the difference. 824 00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:34.179 No, I'm saying that there could be periods when the papacy, 825 00:49:34.340 --> 00:49:36.400 but what I'm saying is in the 11th century, the 826 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:38.719 papacy is the tool of German kings. 827 00:49:38.739 --> 00:49:38.820 Yes. 828 00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:42.179 And I'm saying that's not the case now. But what 829 00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:45.639 happens is that because of the rise of the banking 830 00:49:45.699 --> 00:49:49.739 power in the 1800s, particularly the Rothschild banking power, and 831 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.820 that's essentially who's behind the British Empire eventually. So they're 832 00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:55.039 sort of running the Bank of England. 833 00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:57.659 And that's why Vatican ends up losing. Exactly. That's what 834 00:49:57.679 --> 00:49:57.969 I'm saying. 835 00:49:58.010 --> 00:50:01.289 But in this defeat, they're kind of rising up. They 836 00:50:01.309 --> 00:50:03.289 would say, but now we are rising up like a phoenix. 837 00:50:03.369 --> 00:50:05.150 Look at, for example, who are the judges of the 838 00:50:05.190 --> 00:50:06.469 Supreme Court in America? 839 00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:07.679 Catholics. Okay. 840 00:50:07.699 --> 00:50:12.619 But I mean, I understand the pragmatic reasoning, but the 841 00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:18.789 problem is that from the Orthodox standpoint, this pragmatism is self-defeating. 842 00:50:18.829 --> 00:50:19.150 Of course. 843 00:50:19.190 --> 00:50:22.429 Because it's really no different than the pragmatism of the technocrat. 844 00:50:21.949 --> 00:50:22.630 Or anyone else. 845 00:50:22.690 --> 00:50:26.039
And that's why you see the Vatican beginning to, it 846 00:50:26.059 --> 00:50:29.880 already begins with, now the liberalism and the Masonic, you know, 847 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:32.619 infiltration and all that, that's warned about all the way 848 00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.510 in the 1800s. It's warned about early on in the 19, 849 00:50:36.510 --> 00:50:41.460 you know, early encyclicals in the 1900s. And then it 850 00:50:41.500 --> 00:50:45.199 becomes the liberalism in the Catholic universities and the schools 851 00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:48.510 that's warned about. But what happens is that simultaneously to 852 00:50:48.530 --> 00:50:51.610 all these external attacks, there is from within an internal 853 00:50:51.690 --> 00:50:58.559 subversion that results in dogmatizing the new reforms. 854 00:50:58.579 --> 00:50:58.650 Yes. 855 00:50:59.650 --> 00:51:02.190 And everyone focuses on, and they should be focused on, 856 00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:06.679 you know, Nostra Aetate is the sort of American, you know, 857 00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:09.960 freedom of choice buffet of religions approach to, well, we're 858 00:51:10.019 --> 00:51:13.840 all worshiping the same God, but in different degrees. And 859 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:15.800 so you get sort of the model of the Pope 860 00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:19.079 is now not just a head of Christendom, but he's 861 00:51:19.159 --> 00:51:22.119 actually kind of the head of all the world religions. Yeah. 862 00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.219 Because they're all in degrees of communion with Rome. So 863 00:51:25.260 --> 00:51:28.559 the move of degrees of communion is, with Orthodox and 864 00:51:28.619 --> 00:51:32.760 Protestants and the ecumenist movement expanded to actually all the 865 00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:34.219 world religions are, you know. 866 00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:35.940 In some way, a little bit. 867 00:51:36.300 --> 00:51:40.409 Muslims are maybe 20% in communion with us. Protestants, 50, 868 00:51:40.409 --> 00:51:44.030 60% communion. Orthodox, 80, 90% communion. So you see the 869 00:51:44.090 --> 00:51:46.289 logic of it. And the Pope will then be this 870 00:51:46.349 --> 00:51:48.489 sort of unifying world figure. 871 00:51:48.949 --> 00:51:52.750 Which works great with us for what we were talking 872 00:51:52.769 --> 00:51:57.239 about with pragmatic power and I'm sure the Vatican would say, well, 873 00:51:57.300 --> 00:51:58.179 we're forced into this position. 874 00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:00.039 That's what we have to do. But here's the thing. 875 00:52:00.059 --> 00:52:04.460 At Vatican II, you don't just have these Nostra Aetate 876 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:08.179 III and Lumen Gentium XVI statements about world religions. You 877 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:10.860 have another document that everybody overlooks called Gaudium et Spes. 878 00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:15.309 And Gaudium et Spes is the Vatican II geopolitical stance. 879 00:52:15.409 --> 00:52:17.989 It's their official statement on, okay, where do we stand 880 00:52:18.010 --> 00:52:20.989 in relationship to the United Nations, in relationship to nationalism, 881 00:52:21.010 --> 00:52:24.210 in relationship to disarmament, in relationship to migration? And it 882 00:52:24.250 --> 00:52:27.679 essentially adopts the United Nations-UNESCO approach. 883 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.829 It says basically- Written by Huxley. Ironically, how these guys 884 00:52:30.909 --> 00:52:32.889 are connected. Well, that's how it. 885 00:52:32.809 --> 00:52:36.130 Gets- And Gaudium et Spes says, we support UNESCO. We 886 00:52:36.150 --> 00:52:37.530 support the United Nations approach. 887 00:52:37.590 --> 00:52:40.050 And that's why now our voice will be heard matters 888 00:52:40.150 --> 00:52:41.610 and we can actually now- We have a seat. 889 00:52:41.489 --> 00:52:42.530 At the table again. Yeah. 890 00:52:42.860 --> 00:52:44.820 We used to be a power. Now we're going to 891 00:52:44.860 --> 00:52:46.119 be a power again because we're going to have a 892 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:48.219 seat at the table. So again, it's just a sort 893 00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:52.719 of worship of sort of pragmatic power, which again, ironically, 894 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.590 in the long run, if the Vatican had kept its 895 00:52:56.170 --> 00:53:00.849 traditional stances, they would outlast these things rather than taking 896 00:53:00.909 --> 00:53:04.369 the compromise, we have to work together with the world approach. 897 00:53:04.550 --> 00:53:10.619 But I think that's the temptation that Dostoevsky highlights, that 898 00:53:10.659 --> 00:53:14.440 the Vatican was tempted with when Jesus was brought up 899 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:17.599 on the mountain and he's given those temptations. That's essentially 900 00:53:17.619 --> 00:53:19.659 what the Vatican said, yeah, we will rule with you. 901 00:53:19.940 --> 00:53:21.960 And then eventually it's like, Jesus, you're kind of in 902 00:53:21.980 --> 00:53:23.630 the way of, our project. 903 00:53:23.849 --> 00:53:26.869 I mean, because, I mean, and again, that's a big problem, like, 904 00:53:26.889 --> 00:53:31.679 within Christian logic, this whole salvation has had a logical anxiety, 905 00:53:31.820 --> 00:53:35.320 because that's kind of the whole spirit of reform is 906 00:53:35.539 --> 00:53:37.699 based upon, because we don't know when the second coming 907 00:53:37.739 --> 00:53:39.820 will be, and all the different attempts to say no, 908 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:43.739 you know, every century there is some group which says, 909 00:53:43.860 --> 00:53:45.880 I know for sure it's happening right here, right now, 910 00:53:46.360 --> 00:53:48.519 then it keeps falling and falling and falling, but the 911 00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:52.719 problems are still there, and basically we you can definitely 912 00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:55.940 build a pragmatic argument. We need to work with what 913 00:53:55.980 --> 00:53:58.699 we have. And in many ways, I
can even see, 914 00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.840 for example, when an Orthodox priest is working with me 915 00:54:01.860 --> 00:54:04.099 as a sinner, it's effectively the same argument. Well, I 916 00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:06.960 can't work for you when you're a saint. We need 917 00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:09.699 to take you as a, let's say, sick sinner, and 918 00:54:09.739 --> 00:54:12.510 we will work together as a healing person. Hopefully, Jesus 919 00:54:12.550 --> 00:54:15.050 Christ heals you. Like, you know, it will happen. And 920 00:54:15.550 --> 00:54:19.710 kind of ironically mirroring this principle on a geopolitical arena is, 921 00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.360 That's kind of what you can say what it is doing. Okay, well, 922 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:24.980 we can't wait for this final perfect state of the 923 00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:27.559 earthly power. We need to work with what we have. 924 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.639 So we're coming down, we're taking how it is, what 925 00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:35.820 we have, and trying from, again, still meaning, and trying 926 00:54:35.940 --> 00:54:39.699 to move it to something better, maybe even something more Christ-like. 927 00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.139 They can say, well, with more love and care and 928 00:54:42.219 --> 00:54:45.150 empathy and all of this kind of Christian virtues. 929 00:54:45.510 --> 00:54:46.909 Yeah, but again. 930 00:54:46.969 --> 00:54:51.969 But in the end, Basically, the problem is while trying 931 00:54:52.010 --> 00:54:53.829 to subvert them, you yourself become subvert. 932 00:54:53.869 --> 00:54:54.309 Exactly. 933 00:54:55.110 --> 00:54:57.449 It just isn't going to work because, for one, you've 934 00:54:57.489 --> 00:55:01.940 already had a thousand years of a specific just insanely, 935 00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:06.530 you know, I mean, you've said for a thousand years 936 00:55:06.570 --> 00:55:08.769 that you have to believe in the Pope's temporal supremacy 937 00:55:08.789 --> 00:55:09.329 to be saved. 938 00:55:09.650 --> 00:55:09.769 Yeah. 939 00:55:10.289 --> 00:55:11.929 And now you're saying post-Vatican II. 940 00:55:11.949 --> 00:55:15.210 Luckily, people are literal, so consistency is not something which 941 00:55:15.469 --> 00:55:17.409 actually is in huge demand right now. 942 00:55:17.429 --> 00:55:19.610 Well, but at Vatican II, you're essentially saying, you know, okay, fine, 943 00:55:19.650 --> 00:55:23.780 the Reformation was right, religious liberty, which was already condemned 944 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:27.260 heresy for centuries by the papacy. Now we're admitting, okay, fine, 945 00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:30.440 you can have religious liberty, that's actually a virtue. I mean, multiple, 946 00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:35.510 I mean, Dignitatis Humanae, multiple Vatican II documents. are all 947 00:55:35.570 --> 00:55:38.570 about the dignity of the individual. And actually, John Paul II, 948 00:55:38.590 --> 00:55:40.630 who's another one of these, very close to the CIA 949 00:55:41.829 --> 00:55:44.929 pope openly, because he played a key role symbolically in 950 00:55:44.949 --> 00:55:50.070 the Cold War. You know, his whole ethos was humanism. 951 00:55:50.269 --> 00:55:50.510 Yes. 952 00:55:50.570 --> 00:55:52.050 But he called it Christian humanism. 953 00:55:52.090 --> 00:55:53.429 Christian humanism, yeah. 954 00:55:53.630 --> 00:55:55.840 But he thought, well, this will be the way to 955 00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:57.880 kind of speak to the modern world because the modern 956 00:55:57.889 --> 00:56:01.019 world worships man. And so we'll just use this focal 957 00:56:01.059 --> 00:56:03.260 point of man worship to kind of point them to 958 00:56:03.670 --> 00:56:06.739 Jesus as some sort of like, you know, Superman or whatever. 959 00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:07.960 Ideal man. 960 00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:08.519 Ideal man. 961 00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:14.619 Yeah. But again, what happens, though, is that the geopolitical 962 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:19.239 stances that are admitted at Vatican II, they don't change. 963 00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.360 They become essentially the pattern for all that the Vatican 964 00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:24.929 has done since Vatican II for the last 70 plus 965 00:56:24.949 --> 00:56:30.469 years or 70-ish years to where now you have just– 966 00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:35.599 a degrading from John Paul to, you know, Benedict was 967 00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:40.460 this sort of pseudo-trade period. He abdicates. Then we get 968 00:56:40.699 --> 00:56:44.460 just radical next level with Francis to the point where 969 00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:49.010 even very basic moral ideas are now beginning to evolve 970 00:56:49.190 --> 00:56:50.110 to where, well. 971 00:56:50.250 --> 00:56:55.530 Evolving is not bad, again, within... From the Christian orthodox perspective, 972 00:56:55.550 --> 00:56:57.630 it would be a bad statement. From a perspective of 973 00:56:57.670 --> 00:57:01.789 a power play, of this Again, esoteric, versely power play, 974 00:57:02.110 --> 00:57:02.550 it's all right. 975 00:57:02.650 --> 00:57:04.250 Well, but I was going to say, it's not just 976 00:57:04.289 --> 00:57:07.869 evolving of the theology. Now natural law can evolve. 977 00:57:08.030 --> 00:57:08.489 Of course, yeah. 978 00:57:08.750 --> 00:57:11.780 Because what was, for example, the death penalty for many, 979 00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:16.039 many centuries was considered part of natural justice in Roman theology. 980 00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:19.400 Now that is contrary to the gospel. And now the 981 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.219 papacy can even say, even natural law kind of has 982 00:57:23.260 --> 00:57:23.980 to change a bit. 983 00:57:24.360 --> 00:57:24.519 Okay. 984 00:57:24.539 --> 00:57:27.179 Because the death penalty is now unjust. But if our 985 00:57:27.260 --> 00:57:29.380 goal is, if the head point we are working for is, 986 00:57:30.190 --> 00:57:33.219 to take this top
seat at this table, final big 987 00:57:33.260 --> 00:57:34.059 table of the world. 988 00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:36.860 Well, that's just idolatry because your goal is not to 989 00:57:36.909 --> 00:57:39.090 be at the power, at the seat of the kings. 990 00:57:39.969 --> 00:57:41.289 That's not the goal of the church. 991 00:57:41.610 --> 00:57:41.989 I agree. 992 00:57:42.309 --> 00:57:44.449 All I'm saying is, Jay, I just want to be 993 00:57:44.469 --> 00:57:46.949 clear with our audience because I think this episode is 994 00:57:46.969 --> 00:57:49.679 slightly different from our previous one. So if we're judging 995 00:57:49.699 --> 00:57:52.800 the story by the same scale of the stories of 996 00:57:52.860 --> 00:57:56.340 our previous episodes, it all makes sense. But just simultaneously, 997 00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:58.420 as well as being orthodox, we cannot help. 998 00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:01.909 Well, really, the only debate from this vantage point of 999 00:58:01.929 --> 00:58:06.420 the Vatican side of it is, are we completely subverted 1000 00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:09.800 or are we influenced by other powers? And I think 1001 00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:14.000 that what you've seen with Francis to Leo is basically 1002 00:58:14.019 --> 00:58:18.880 a little bit of divergence on, you know, Ukraine war 1003 00:58:19.179 --> 00:58:20.860 or Middle Eastern war. 1004 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:22.000 I don't see it as a divergence. 1005 00:58:22.119 --> 00:58:25.280 Well, no, I'm saying it diverges in the sense of criticisms. 1006 00:58:25.940 --> 00:58:28.699 But other than that, even if you look into this story, like, 1007 00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:30.500 you know, it's absolutely consistent. If you look in the 1008 00:58:30.579 --> 00:58:33.760 Ukraine war, come on, Ukraine war wouldn't be possible without. 1009 00:58:36.539 --> 00:58:39.119 The uniates helped facilitate that. But what I'm saying is 1010 00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:43.400 the papacy in terms of its open stances, which might 1011 00:58:43.840 --> 00:58:46.659 be totally different from what they actually do, which is 1012 00:58:46.719 --> 00:58:51.719 just classic bureaucratic politics. But I'm saying you have public 1013 00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:56.400 criticism of Trump's war on Iran, but that's about it. 1014 00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.880 But that's important because it fits well. 1015 00:58:59.940 --> 00:59:00.420 Okay, fine. 1016 00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:05.070 I can absolutely say because the Trump policy is... Again, remember, 1017 00:59:05.090 --> 00:59:08.480 he's influenced by... Is there a couple other tracks? 1018 00:59:08.500 --> 00:59:08.739 I know. 1019 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:11.360 He's influenced by the Zionists. But what I'm saying is 1020 00:59:11.400 --> 00:59:17.539 that the Vatican stance isn't even criticism of the Trump 1021 00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:22.809 moves from some sort of traditional moral principles. It's criticism 1022 00:59:22.949 --> 00:59:25.070 from a modern sort of leftist position. 1023 00:59:25.130 --> 00:59:28.590 It's exactly because... I would say the closest alliance since 1024 00:59:28.630 --> 00:59:31.570 Vatican II actually was between... You can say that Fabians 1025 00:59:31.659 --> 00:59:34.820 and Vatican became really just close together. They realized they 1026 00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:38.739 can achieve way more by collaborating. Plus, add to this 1027 00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:41.179 the whole Council for Inclusive Capitalism. Yep. 1028 00:59:41.860 --> 00:59:45.480 Fabian. Fabian. Rothschild. Yes. So, and. 1029 00:59:45.940 --> 00:59:49.500 I mean, Trump himself is many things, but he's really anti-Fabian. 1030 00:59:49.820 --> 00:59:52.199 He has personal antipathy. So it makes this kind of 1031 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:56.829 personal level of personal tactical criticism makes total sense. But strategically, 1032 00:59:56.869 --> 00:59:59.610 for example, if we're looking into conflict, like, again, the 1033 00:59:59.650 --> 01:00:06.210 whole story of, like, CIA, like, basically using Constantinople to 1034 01:00:06.250 --> 01:00:09.780 split Ukraine charge, who is the final benefit? 1035 01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:11.099 Well, ultimately, Vatican. 1036 01:00:11.139 --> 01:00:13.900 If you look, for example, in Belarus, through this kind 1037 01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:18.090 of subtle process, it's orthodox. countries still, but the number 1038 01:00:18.130 --> 01:00:20.409 of Catholics in it increased over the course of the 1039 01:00:20.449 --> 01:00:22.090 last 330 years. 1040 01:00:22.989 --> 01:00:25.789 The Jesuits did the same thing to Russia. The Jesuits 1041 01:00:25.809 --> 01:00:28.380 were constantly trying to missionize back to. 1042 01:00:28.409 --> 01:00:30.679 And the same process is happening, and that's why you 1043 01:00:30.739 --> 01:00:32.960 see the missionaries. So, like, it's still working. And it's 1044 01:00:32.980 --> 01:00:35.800 just the language is to advocate for peace. And to 1045 01:00:35.860 --> 01:00:37.940 advocate for peace, we all know the power groups who 1046 01:00:38.409 --> 01:00:41.559 openly advocate for peace. The argument for peace fits well 1047 01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:41.860 with the. 1048 01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:47.079 Whole world government. But the craziest example of this is the, 1049 01:00:47.099 --> 01:00:50.820 you know, from Francis to Leo, there's been a consistent 1050 01:00:50.860 --> 01:00:55.929 stance that Europe needs to accept all of the Muslim migrants. 1051 01:00:56.309 --> 01:00:58.969 And they have to. That's the Christian position, which is 1052 01:00:58.989 --> 01:01:04.789 so crazy with the crusade attitude of the papacy calling crusades. 1053 01:01:05.250 --> 01:01:07.360 Because we've been limiting ourselves. And that's what I think 1054 01:01:07.389 --> 01:01:11.110 you're it's really important to understand that this ecumenism is 1055 01:01:11.150 --> 01:01:13.869 not theological. And that's why when you criticize it,
like 1056 01:01:14.050 --> 01:01:17.070 obviously it's theological, it cannot not be theological, but the motivation, 1057 01:01:17.130 --> 01:01:21.000 the motivations are not, is geopolitical because I, like I'm 1058 01:01:21.019 --> 01:01:23.900 responsible for everybody. Then of course we need to take 1059 01:01:23.940 --> 01:01:24.239 them in. 1060 01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.239 So like basically, that's why the Pope is basically saying, well, 1061 01:01:28.300 --> 01:01:32.599 since I am the, steward of all the world religions. Yeah, 1062 01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:34.489 maybe the Catholics are a little closer to me, but 1063 01:01:34.550 --> 01:01:37.289 I'm also the father to these Muslims because you can 1064 01:01:37.309 --> 01:01:39.670 go back to John Paul II. He was already beginning 1065 01:01:39.769 --> 01:01:42.929 to say things famously, like when I think it was 1066 01:01:42.969 --> 01:01:44.989 around 2001 or two, he went to Jordan and he 1067 01:01:45.030 --> 01:01:48.489 gave a sermon to the Muslims and said, may St. 1068 01:01:48.530 --> 01:01:53.289 John the Baptist protect Islam, not Islam. may St. John 1069 01:01:53.309 --> 01:01:58.320 the Baptist protect the Jordanian people, but Islam, the religion. 1070 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:01.699 This is very important. And there's other homilies he gave 1071 01:02:02.179 --> 01:02:05.360 in Jordan as well, and other ones to other Muslim groups, 1072 01:02:05.420 --> 01:02:08.280 basically affirming this has never been done before. 1073 01:02:09.030 --> 01:02:09.289 Okay. 1074 01:02:09.489 --> 01:02:11.650 So it's very important, the language that's used. It's not 1075 01:02:11.710 --> 01:02:12.829 just simply saying. 1076 01:02:12.570 --> 01:02:15.250 That I want, you know, the saints to pray for 1077 01:02:15.269 --> 01:02:16.289 the people. 1078 01:02:16.449 --> 01:02:20.059 It's the false religion that, that is beginning to be 1079 01:02:20.119 --> 01:02:24.849 now seen as really just a lower gradation of Christianity. 1080 01:02:25.809 --> 01:02:28.449 And so they're part of our group. And if we 1081 01:02:28.469 --> 01:02:31.130 just sort of do this sort of dialogical process of 1082 01:02:31.210 --> 01:02:34.170 accepting everybody, we'll all kind of eventually arrive at the 1083 01:02:34.190 --> 01:02:35.769 same papal conclusion. That's the point. 1084 01:02:35.969 --> 01:02:39.210 Yeah. And so it's this weird, philosophically speaking, it's this 1085 01:02:39.269 --> 01:02:42.550 weird part of dilution. There is a temptation and dilution because, 1086 01:02:42.590 --> 01:02:44.409 I mean, even if you look, let's say, in any 1087 01:02:44.449 --> 01:02:47.360 form of liquid, when it's concentrated, it's a very small amount. 1088 01:02:47.420 --> 01:02:50.659 But if you dilute it you can really increase the 1089 01:02:51.119 --> 01:02:55.570 volume and this is very commonsensically geopolitical move which can 1090 01:02:55.730 --> 01:02:58.750 also have a further connection from the potential like how 1091 01:02:58.769 --> 01:03:00.869 to take place at this big table and how actually 1092 01:03:00.889 --> 01:03:04.269 to run it will become indispensable well with all you 1093 01:03:04.329 --> 01:03:06.989 with all of your craziest ideas how will you shepherd 1094 01:03:07.010 --> 01:03:09.630 people they will suspect you of evil intent they will 1095 01:03:09.650 --> 01:03:12.760 suspect you of basically there is all this crazy lunatics 1096 01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:16.519 accusing you and I'm a good shepherd. 1097 01:03:16.460 --> 01:03:17.719 And through me. 1098 01:03:19.800 --> 01:03:22.559 I mean, I can run and I can let you 1099 01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:25.780 do your things. Basically, it's a really strong move from. 1100 01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:26.820 This low-level play. 1101 01:03:26.860 --> 01:03:30.639 I'm not speaking from Morse's perspective, but from our series' perspective. 1102 01:03:31.550 --> 01:03:36.349 It's a really good play to, after the centuries of retreating, 1103 01:03:37.449 --> 01:03:40.070 it's actually, you know what, throughout our conversation, this Vatican 1104 01:03:40.090 --> 01:03:43.590 tool to be starting to make way more sense, actually. 1105 01:03:43.940 --> 01:03:46.719 It's evil genius, but it's kind of genius move to 1106 01:03:47.139 --> 01:03:50.119 at least worth betting upon to get back at the 1107 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:55.619 table with this golden card or like golden, yeah, whatever 1108 01:03:55.659 --> 01:03:57.820 you call in the market economy. But so that's why 1109 01:03:57.860 --> 01:04:00.530 my voice is important. And that's why, for example, if 1110 01:04:00.550 --> 01:04:03.610 you look into recent statement on AI, it's kind of 1111 01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:07.369 the same principle, the recent encyclical. It says many important 1112 01:04:07.449 --> 01:04:10.769 right word, but what is the true geopolitical consequences? Well, 1113 01:04:11.469 --> 01:04:15.900 our voice, our representatives must be among the one who 1114 01:04:15.980 --> 01:04:19.170 will write the ethics for AI. So we need to 1115 01:04:19.210 --> 01:04:21.250 be the one who will do it. It's taking the 1116 01:04:21.269 --> 01:04:23.789 same thing. So we are not fighting the Silicon Valley. 1117 01:04:24.090 --> 01:04:27.280 We're not fighting the technocrats. We want to infiltrate it. 1118 01:04:27.550 --> 01:04:30.699 We want to, and then guide it. Infiltrating and guiding. 1119 01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:33.519 I think that's the biggest shift the Vatican made after 1120 01:04:33.820 --> 01:04:37.239 the hard position just ran out of resources. 1121 01:04:37.579 --> 01:04:40.260 Yeah, and I think you can see a parallel with 1122 01:04:40.300 --> 01:04:43.329 something that many Catholics and Catholic historians have pointed out 1123 01:04:43.389 --> 01:04:47.340 in America, which was You know, in American politics in 1124 01:04:47.380 --> 01:04:50.949 the 20th century, it was dominated by
WASP power and 1125 01:04:51.010 --> 01:04:54.250 WASP interests. And then you have the rise of the Kennedys. 1126 01:04:54.429 --> 01:04:58.610 And the idea is the Kennedys kind of were masters 1127 01:04:58.670 --> 01:05:02.250 at this approach of, I'm going to publicly as a 1128 01:05:02.309 --> 01:05:06.510 politician be fully secular in my approach. I'll be pro-abortion. 1129 01:05:06.530 --> 01:05:08.570 I'll be pro-whatever that doesn't line with... But I'm going 1130 01:05:08.590 --> 01:05:09.730 to privately be a Catholic. 1131 01:05:09.909 --> 01:05:10.590 Now, you. 1132 01:05:11.070 --> 01:05:13.230 In Catholic theology, you can't do that. 1133 01:05:13.510 --> 01:05:13.730 But. 1134 01:05:14.309 --> 01:05:18.139 The argument was, and this was, I think, the Kennedy stance, 1135 01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:20.659 and later Catholics said this, we want a seat at 1136 01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:23.659 the table. We're not at the table. Catholics are not 1137 01:05:23.739 --> 01:05:26.300 seen as part of the American political process. And if 1138 01:05:26.340 --> 01:05:28.889 you want a seat at the table, you've got to compromise. 1139 01:05:29.389 --> 01:05:29.570 Yes. 1140 01:05:30.230 --> 01:05:32.090 At the end, it will be worth it. At the end, 1141 01:05:32.150 --> 01:05:34.510 we will bring them back to Christ, even as I 1142 01:05:34.530 --> 01:05:37.150 can say. At the end, they might not understand him. 1143 01:05:37.610 --> 01:05:39.969 as a Christ is a name, but they will understand, 1144 01:05:40.210 --> 01:05:42.320 they will basically one way or the other will end 1145 01:05:42.380 --> 01:05:44.539 up being in a communion. And like, so the spiritual 1146 01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:47.300 strength is there. And from the perspective of other groups, 1147 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.219 I mean, that's actually a very strong position of Vatican 1148 01:05:51.239 --> 01:05:55.300 because they themselves keep like, often like, I mean, history matters, sorry. 1149 01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:58.110 Vatican has hundreds of years of experience, as I said, 1150 01:05:58.150 --> 01:06:03.409 hundreds of years of connections, indispensable, still moral capital and reputation, 1151 01:06:03.590 --> 01:06:07.730 which is very important. Vatican as a peace representative, for example, 1152 01:06:08.010 --> 01:06:10.699 sounds way better as a, sorry, CIA director as a 1153 01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:15.380 peace representative, just even from PR perspective. And then you 1154 01:06:15.420 --> 01:06:16.599 connect it and then you use it. 1155 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:22.519 Well, even propaganda itself, the whole idea of modernity, you know, 1156 01:06:22.539 --> 01:06:24.619 we think of Bernays and these people, but actually it 1157 01:06:24.659 --> 01:06:28.980 was the Vatican that had pioneered this many centuries earlier 1158 01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:31.840 with the Holy Office of Propaganda, right? The Holy Office 1159 01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:35.510 of the Inquisition essentially was a propaganda office. So, And 1160 01:06:35.670 --> 01:06:37.849 you're right to go back to Jesuits as sort of 1161 01:06:38.300 --> 01:06:41.579 long-term almost intelligence operatives, you could say. The Vatican is 1162 01:06:41.599 --> 01:06:47.219 the oldest intelligence agency in the world. But as we said, 1163 01:06:47.539 --> 01:06:49.820 even into the 20th century, they had begun to lose 1164 01:06:49.860 --> 01:06:51.989 a lot of that temporal power. So I think you're 1165 01:06:52.050 --> 01:06:55.159 right to say that the motivations are just to simply 1166 01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.960 get back to having a seat at the table. And 1167 01:06:56.980 --> 01:06:57.980 if that requires us. 1168 01:06:58.539 --> 01:07:01.340 Temporarily, for now, even you can say, like you can 1169 01:07:01.380 --> 01:07:03.400 even say, because we still, that's why this image, like 1170 01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:05.940 you can, you're still keeping it. It's still in your hands. 1171 01:07:05.980 --> 01:07:08.940 You're still in your heart, absolutely loyal. And Christ will 1172 01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:10.900 understand you when you. 1173 01:07:10.940 --> 01:07:12.739 Well, maybe for some of them, I don't think for 1174 01:07:12.760 --> 01:07:13.599 the people of the Vatican. 1175 01:07:13.719 --> 01:07:17.199 No, I honestly think, I mean, it makes way more sense, 1176 01:07:17.409 --> 01:07:19.449 this logic behind it. It's hard to be such a 1177 01:07:19.469 --> 01:07:23.230 hypocrite physically, so you need to find a good explanation, uh, 1178 01:07:24.059 --> 01:07:26.969 within yourself so I think it's currently this is the 1179 01:07:27.090 --> 01:07:29.969 age but actually look at what this age is giving 1180 01:07:30.070 --> 01:07:33.309 us we can improve our missionary effort tremendously we can 1181 01:07:33.349 --> 01:07:36.670 actually if you include everyone like that's kind of everyone 1182 01:07:36.730 --> 01:07:39.170 is our mission and like we're simultaneously doing the job 1183 01:07:39.210 --> 01:07:41.090 so and then who knows what will come in a 1184 01:07:41.150 --> 01:07:44.139 hundred years and then okay AI comes okay we will 1185 01:07:44.460 --> 01:07:47.199 imprint it with certain spirits let's say and we. 1186 01:07:47.159 --> 01:07:49.880 Will Yeah, we already do. I mean, the Catholics are 1187 01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:54.679 already creating Catholic AIs that, you know, people are even 1188 01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:58.340 trying to confess to them, which is absurd. But I mean, 1189 01:07:58.699 --> 01:08:01.219 these ideas are already kind of being put out there. 1190 01:08:01.929 --> 01:08:03.889 Not that the Vatican has totally approved of that, just 1191 01:08:03.929 --> 01:08:06.389 saying that it's begun to be experimented with in the 1192 01:08:06.429 --> 01:08:10.369 Protestant and the Catholic world. But yeah, I think that, 1193 01:08:10.409 --> 01:08:15.170 you know, again, this is essentially what
John XXIII meant 1194 01:08:15.289 --> 01:08:19.479 when he talked about aggiornamento. And he said that Vatican 1195 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:21.199 II would be the opening up of the doors of 1196 01:08:21.220 --> 01:08:23.640 the church to the world. Because we're going to have 1197 01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:27.199 to do that. We can't be this bastion medieval institution 1198 01:08:27.220 --> 01:08:30.279 that's a fortress. His idea was we have to open 1199 01:08:30.340 --> 01:08:32.699 up to the world and that's how we'll convert the world. 1200 01:08:33.090 --> 01:08:36.029 So that was what at least the best charitable reading 1201 01:08:36.050 --> 01:08:38.529 of Vatican II was supposed to be. What I'm saying 1202 01:08:38.590 --> 01:08:41.789 is that you can see in the background with not 1203 01:08:41.850 --> 01:08:45.770 conspiracy books, but with espionage history, with intelligence history, with 1204 01:08:46.310 --> 01:08:50.310 big geopolitical power and their books and their history, them saying, 1205 01:08:50.550 --> 01:08:54.829 we will turn this organization into an engine of American 1206 01:08:54.869 --> 01:08:56.890 soft power. That is what happened. 1207 01:08:56.909 --> 01:08:59.970 I'd say globalist more than American. 1208 01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:00.220 Again. 1209 01:09:00.260 --> 01:09:02.220 You know what I'm saying? No, at the time of 1210 01:09:02.239 --> 01:09:07.039 the Cold War, the argument was, the reason the OSS 1211 01:09:07.180 --> 01:09:10.159 and CIA wanted the Vatican was, if we can turn 1212 01:09:10.180 --> 01:09:14.460 this engine to a tool of American soft power, we'll 1213 01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:15.060 win the Cold War. 1214 01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:15.859 Okay. 1215 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:20.140 And they were ultimately successful utilizing John Paul II. 1216 01:09:20.199 --> 01:09:20.699 Exactly. 1217 01:09:21.619 --> 01:09:25.000 But that now puts, if you're the Vatican, now you're 1218 01:09:25.060 --> 01:09:27.779 kind of, you've got new masters, you see. And so 1219 01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:30.939 now you have to, and maybe you're right, maybe the 1220 01:09:30.979 --> 01:09:32.930 thought is, well, we'll play the long game and eventually 1221 01:09:32.939 --> 01:09:34.189 we'll outlast the American. 1222 01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.289 I definitely think it's a long game. I definitely, tactically, 1223 01:09:37.310 --> 01:09:39.550 it would be this particular American group. But let's say 1224 01:09:39.569 --> 01:09:41.189 this American group is splitting in itself. 1225 01:09:41.270 --> 01:09:42.109 Now in itself, it's. 1226 01:09:43.149 --> 01:09:48.649 Fabians against Atlantuses through technocrats against Zionists, Zionists. 1227 01:09:48.310 --> 01:09:49.760 Against all and all of these things. 1228 01:09:49.819 --> 01:09:52.520 And now we are getting this nicely, quietly sit at 1229 01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:55.539 the table and like, you know, actually slowly moving. 1230 01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:58.520 Well, the problem is that I don't think the technocrats, well, 1231 01:09:58.539 --> 01:10:00.350 excuse me, I think that in terms of the Vatican, 1232 01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:02.149 I actually think that who will win out with the 1233 01:10:02.189 --> 01:10:03.229 Vatican will be the Zionists. 1234 01:10:04.229 --> 01:10:05.409 Go on. I'm curious. 1235 01:10:05.430 --> 01:10:08.550 Well, one of the elements that we overlook, and this 1236 01:10:08.569 --> 01:10:12.220 is detailed in the Wim Hof book, was The origins 1237 01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:19.380 of ecumenism are Rockefeller power, WASP power, and money and banking, 1238 01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:25.000 and also a Jewish banking element too. And some of 1239 01:10:25.020 --> 01:10:29.489 the first ecumenist meetings ever were chaired by rabbis. 1240 01:10:29.810 --> 01:10:30.130 It was a. 1241 01:10:30.130 --> 01:10:34.789 Rabbinical move because if you go back to Moses Hess 1242 01:10:35.050 --> 01:10:36.489 and he wrote Roman Jerusalem. 1243 01:10:36.510 --> 01:10:36.909 Mm-hmm. 1244 01:10:37.380 --> 01:10:39.279 In the 1860s, and this is one of the first 1245 01:10:39.340 --> 01:10:44.359 works to ever mention Jewish Zionism. So way before 1917, 1246 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:47.039 you have Roman Jerusalem, Moses Hess, who is the father 1247 01:10:47.060 --> 01:10:53.609 of utopian socialism. He says, through dialogical Hegelian and essentially 1248 01:10:53.710 --> 01:10:58.989 Spinoza pantheistic process, so understand that his philosophical influences are 1249 01:10:59.029 --> 01:11:01.829 Hegel and Spinoza. So he sees history as sort of 1250 01:11:01.970 --> 01:11:07.149 dialectical process culminating not in the Vatican or in America, 1251 01:11:07.210 --> 01:11:10.770 but in Jerusalem as the sort of focal point of 1252 01:11:10.949 --> 01:11:16.439 global socialism. He says that what we'll do also is 1253 01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:21.300 essentially use the Masonic lodges to bring about a Judaizing 1254 01:11:21.340 --> 01:11:24.500 of the nations. And although I don't know that he 1255 01:11:24.539 --> 01:11:27.579 specifically had an idea of Judaizing the Vatican, but what 1256 01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.560 happens at Vatican II is also a very strong Jewish 1257 01:11:30.619 --> 01:11:33.880 influence with, for example, writers who would write at the 1258 01:11:34.750 --> 01:11:38.029 Look Magazine, which is a famous Jewish magazine. After Vatican II, 1259 01:11:38.149 --> 01:11:40.529 they actually wrote in Look Magazine bragging that they had 1260 01:11:40.569 --> 01:11:43.109 won Vatican II because not only did they get the 1261 01:11:43.130 --> 01:11:46.890 statement in Nostra Aetate, hold on, where the Jews, Christians, 1262 01:11:46.930 --> 01:11:49.750 and Muslims all worship the same God, they also succeeded 1263 01:11:49.890 --> 01:11:53.470 in eventually getting the Roman Latin Mass and then the 1264 01:11:53.510 --> 01:11:56.430 Novus Ordo to remove the Good Friday prayers
talking about 1265 01:11:56.850 --> 01:12:00.109 how the Jews need to be converted and are perfidious 1266 01:12:00.270 --> 01:12:03.140 was the terminology that was used. So that's all removed. 1267 01:12:03.180 --> 01:12:06.640 That's a significant change. And then what happens is the 1268 01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:10.460 Vatican begins to gradually introduce ideas that the Jews are 1269 01:12:10.600 --> 01:12:14.300 still in a covenant with God. And the United States 1270 01:12:14.340 --> 01:12:16.920 Conference of Catholic Bishops put out a document, I want 1271 01:12:16.939 --> 01:12:19.859 to say in 2002 or 2003, and it dealt with 1272 01:12:20.520 --> 01:12:23.890 not converting Jews. Do not proselytize Jews. They still have 1273 01:12:23.899 --> 01:12:27.770 a relationship with God. Now, this is a huge move away, again, 1274 01:12:27.850 --> 01:12:31.729 from the Vatican's traditional stance here. And so- The reason 1275 01:12:31.770 --> 01:12:36.840 I'm saying that it's a Judaizing is that you're also 1276 01:12:36.939 --> 01:12:40.899 getting recently the Vatican making very strong statements that to 1277 01:12:40.939 --> 01:12:45.810 criticize Judaism is anti-Semitism. Now, they might not be openly 1278 01:12:45.869 --> 01:12:49.529 pro-Zionist per se, but they're still at this point focusing 1279 01:12:49.649 --> 01:12:53.689 on the religion of Judaism, rabbinic Judaism. But I think 1280 01:12:53.729 --> 01:12:56.989 that we're not very far away from the papacy moving 1281 01:12:57.090 --> 01:13:01.810 even further towards Judaism. If they've already given up the proselytizing, 1282 01:13:02.710 --> 01:13:06.109 we're only a few decades, maybe a decade away from 1283 01:13:06.170 --> 01:13:10.970 essentially acceptance of Judaism as perhaps the real. 1284 01:13:11.310 --> 01:13:12.130 The real salvation. 1285 01:13:13.470 --> 01:13:15.800 Well, actually, I don't know. 1286 01:13:15.880 --> 01:13:18.960 It's a perfect segue, actually, because one of the next 1287 01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:21.840 tribes we're going to talk about are Zionists and Judaism. 1288 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:25.239 And You can always start talking about it. You devote 1289 01:13:25.279 --> 01:13:28.600 hundreds of hours talking about this topic. There are lots 1290 01:13:28.640 --> 01:13:31.199 of beautiful books written about it, which we will put 1291 01:13:31.260 --> 01:13:35.229 into the description for those who want to go further. 1292 01:13:35.310 --> 01:13:38.470 But essentially, I think the argument is covered like this. 1293 01:13:38.569 --> 01:13:41.649 What can be started as a charitable shepherd in contention 1294 01:13:41.789 --> 01:13:46.979 of worldly affairs now ended up into... this, yes, I 1295 01:13:47.520 --> 01:13:49.859 would still argue pretty strong position among all of the 1296 01:13:49.880 --> 01:13:53.319 other tribes we've been talking about, but from Christian perspective, 1297 01:13:54.260 --> 01:13:58.260 in the long run, it's making you indistinguishable. 1298 01:13:58.420 --> 01:14:01.930 One last point. This key document that really was so 1299 01:14:01.979 --> 01:14:05.489 revolutionary called Nostra Aetate, which is the Roman Catholic Church's 1300 01:14:05.529 --> 01:14:08.770 relationship to the world religions. This was actually drafted by 1301 01:14:08.789 --> 01:14:14.510 a Jewish guy who left the priesthood Because he was 1302 01:14:14.550 --> 01:14:18.750 a homosexual unbeliever now. But he had achieved what his 1303 01:14:18.789 --> 01:14:22.130 goal was, which was to essentially rewrite the Catholic theology 1304 01:14:23.170 --> 01:14:25.750 of the Vatican's relationship to Islam and Judaism. 1305 01:14:26.140 --> 01:14:26.479 Perfect. 1306 01:14:27.060 --> 01:14:29.199 And that's the price you kind of ended up having 1307 01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:29.579 to pay. 1308 01:14:29.899 --> 01:14:31.060 Gregory Baum is his name. 1309 01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:31.539 Gregory Baum. 1310 01:14:32.180 --> 01:14:33.920 So that's kind of a perfect example of the price 1311 01:14:33.939 --> 01:14:36.340 you had to pay in this process. However, now in 2026, 1312 01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:41.979 don't discount. absolutely big power player and I actually expect 1313 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.960 to see way more of its influence on a global 1314 01:14:45.020 --> 01:14:48.840 arena in the coming years with other let's say forces 1315 01:14:48.899 --> 01:14:53.159 kind of a little bit attacking too much each other 1316 01:14:53.340 --> 01:14:55.729 and kind of weakening each other and now Vatican actually 1317 01:14:55.770 --> 01:14:59.069 might have a pretty strong several decades at least on 1318 01:14:59.090 --> 01:15:02.010 the surface but maybe there is a surface behind the 1319 01:15:02.029 --> 01:15:04.090 surface and that's what I guess we're going to talk 1320 01:15:04.130 --> 01:15:06.390 next see you next week. 1321 01:15:08.359 --> 01:15:09.270 That's the weirdest part. 1322 01:15:09.409 --> 01:15:14.720 Mass level secular Zionism becomes this weird understanding. Well, there 1323 01:15:14.739 --> 01:15:16.699 is no God, but we're kind of chosen by him. 1324 01:15:16.720 --> 01:15:18.770 Yeah, right. Exactly. 1325 01:15:19.130 --> 01:15:20.789 Why that land? Well, just because.
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