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Tim Scanlon: There were several tools mentioned in this episode, so make sure to check out the show notes for links or visit the DeepErd website. And don't forget to hit subscribe or follow. Welcome everyone, I'm Tim Scanlon, a research scientist at Deep Herd. I'll be your host today for a conversation with Jackie Buchat. Jackie is the senior research scientist and crop science manager specializing in canola agronomy and we're discussing canola agronomy with limited resources. Welcome Jackie. One of the things that canola has an advantage of is being able to be sown very early in the season and a lot of people be thinking about seeding now for canola. sort of things do we need to be thinking about that helps with ⁓ early sowing and also ⁓ up for yield? So of the things that we have to consider this ⁓ at the start is that there has been a differing amount of rainfall. You've mentioned the cyclone already. There was also some isolated shower events throughout the state earlier on ⁓ that led to ⁓ differing of soil moisture throughout the state, which also to differing levels of microbial activity in the soil. So can we just talk a little bit about what impact that's going to have ⁓ on
Jackie Bucat: Thank you, Tim. Nice to be here.
Tim Scanlon: So, Jackie, we start off every season with a lot of uncertainties about what we're going to be doing. the rainfall to consider, there's what we're going to be seeding. But we've some uncertainties this season around availability ⁓ of inputs the cost of those inputs for our crops. So ⁓ how growers at maximizing the yield potential with limited resources this year?
Jackie Bucat: Thanks Tim. Yeah, ⁓ have great expectations of Cyclone Norel ⁓ I would have been seeding before that ⁓ I would have been burnt if I was up north because they actually didn't get that much rain out of it, did they? ⁓ for April I'd be wanting 60 mils because there's quite a high risk there, you know, the follow up rains and things. ⁓ Not if anyone has been seeding that hopefully ⁓ will in their favour.
Tim Scanlon: canolysating.
Jackie Bucat: Yeah, thanks Tim. And we're getting, I guess, onto the nitrogen story here, which is going be really important this season. ⁓ one of the key bits about the nitrogen story is, you know, what are we starting with? And you say, the soil mineralisation is where a lot of that might come from. I got my trusty nitrogen calculator yesterday and there's about kilos of nitrogen per hectare mineralisation per percent of organic carbon. Well thanks Tim, that's very big question. Shall we break it down a bit and mentioned already that the known that we're used to working with, which is the seasonal rainfall, ⁓ and that forecast is below average for this year for the April to June, so maybe expecting a dry start or a delayed break. ⁓ But do have that upside that we've already had from cyclone Norel, so that's ⁓ a thing. I've been hearing a of comment about the early seeding and some people questioning whether we want to seed later. So the yield potential is less, so it needs less nitrogen. And I think that's a positive way to look at it. I think we want to set our crop up for the maximum yield potential we can. Not too much nitrogen on, but ⁓ making that ⁓ the is there. ⁓ So the seeding date And there's a boost to that of a further 20 kilos due to any places that have had summer rain. ⁓ double those places if you're lucky enough to have 2%, half if you've got half a percent of organic carbon. So think as part your nitrogen decision, knowing what you're starting with is really important. and then as well as the pricing of our commodities and our inputs, we've got some access issues. So should we talk about diesel as a starting point? early seeding, get early growth, we get good root growth and it's accessing a lot more of the soil moisture and the soil nitrogen. So we get a better water use efficiency and a better nitrogen use efficiency. think setting them up is ⁓
Tim Scanlon: So, and that's both having an idea of what your soil test is saying, but also going and having a dig and seeing what the water profile looks like a bit. Yeah, let's talk diesel. ⁓
Jackie Bucat: Yep, yep, and I'd like to be brought up your soil testing there. That's another excellent way to know where we're starting from. So current soil tests or if you haven't got current ones, you can use your old ones to look at that organic carbon percentage that will help to guide you what your soil is releasing. And of course, this is the year that the sheep farmers are especially happy getting that nitrogen boost from their pastures. Diesel, well I guess, well with the diesel, I we, might say it's diesel, but we're really considering if you need to limit the program and where your decisions will take you with that. So obviously at the moment the canola pricing is currently stronger than wheat, of course we don't know what that will be at the end of the year, but presuming that puts canola, you know, in a strong place. But that doesn't stop our rotational needs.
Tim Scanlon: while also trying to avoid having to reseed potentially.
Jackie Bucat: Yes, yep, I mean that risk is there. I think it was 2023 was it that we came quite close to the wind up at Geraldton. They did get through thankfully.
Tim Scanlon: So were there any final points that you feel that we needed to off on to help people with their canola decisions?
Jackie Bucat: And what we don't want to see, I suppose, is canola on canola, to me has a potentially of personal gain, but also potential for community pain. So I heard of a recent example yesterday that someone was seeding onto a long-term pasture and I plugged again that into the Nitrogen Calculator. They were getting 120 Ks of N from their long-term pasture plus 100 from their soil mineralisation, so they're starting at 220 kilos of N. So that's a great situation. Most people are not going to be in that situation, but we still need to know what we're starting with to make a
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good decision about where to put the N. Yes, there's a couple bits of info I want to add about the nitrogen doing your own strips. So one was that I was talking through it with the economist yesterday, Nicholas Thorseger, and he volunteered, he said he was quite happy if anyone has some nitrogen strips in their own farm, he'd be quite happy to work through the economics for them, whether that's for this season, you that you've got something you've got previously to do now or at the end of the season.
Tim Scanlon: So you're talking about disease risks there with blackleg in particular.
Jackie Bucat: That's right. So canola on canola, we're going to a lot of pressure to break down the blackleg variety disease resistance also, Tim, faster development of herbicide resistance. And we know, they're problems that we share. ⁓ We keep them to ourselves. ⁓ So well as that, though, you know, can have sclerotinia build up ⁓ and volunteer canola becomes a weed. ⁓ So often
Tim Scanlon: Yes, and speaking of where to put the in, in previous episode Dion Nicol was discussing wheat, but he acknowledged that, can all the price is good, you've already mentioned that, that has to figure into the decision of where to target our inputs ⁓ and which are going to get the inputs. And so is this a sort of a consideration not just of paddock selection but also of ⁓ ⁓ And we were planning on having a podcast with Nick in the series.
Jackie Bucat: and
Tim Scanlon: Yes. Yes.
Jackie Bucat: Perfect, perfect. And I did mention that paper from Wayne Plusky. I want to read out the title so you can find it online. Making N applications pay this season. Efficiencies of fertilizer usage. And that was something that he prepared back in 2022 for the GRDC research updates. So you should be able to find that online. out competes the other plants because often it germinates a little bit earlier and it is retained seed after all so it's generally a less productive plants overall and you get uneven maturity and harvest issues. something that's been a big problem for WA growers they're great land managers and we do want to keep it keep it that way.
Tim Scanlon: we're likely to put the fertilizer up front and any follow-up.
Jackie Bucat: a lot in that, but definitely yes, definitely yes. So we've already started with what you're starting with and I think the other really thing is to look at your cut off, your end point ⁓ I guess that's what we're talking about, the paddocks. So having ⁓ difference access which might affect your yield. ⁓ There's range of ⁓ different experiences out there. Some are having to pay a whole lot more for their nitrogen. ⁓ So really important, particularly this year.
Tim Scanlon: So the thing to remember there is that we're wanting this to be the break crop rather than the cash crop.
Jackie Bucat: nicely put. both, we want both. If I have time, Tim, I just want to do a wrap up. So a key driver of profit as we know, ⁓ it also can be a key driver of risk in canola systems. ⁓ it drives the yield the good years, ⁓ but it's such a big cost, it can be contributor ⁓ of ⁓ in poor seasons. It's our variable cost lever. using it judiciously that ⁓ period where the are going to be most responsive, get most work out what your breakeven yields are or your breakeven cost yield combination. I'd be suggesting that you obviously use your past experience to do your planning with some of those new nitrogen costs. And if you're tricking to estimate your yields in this season and expecting to have to reduce your nitrogen, ⁓ you just be able look at results from years ago when I suspect that you had a lower rate of nitrogen. bang for your buck, I think will be good this year I really hope people do some ⁓ this year. And thank you very much for the opportunity to chat today.
Tim Scanlon: Not a problem, Jackie. It's been informative. there's a lot of crossover between our about wheat and with canola. It's very ⁓ to make sure that we're getting that ⁓ correct so that we can ⁓ maximise the returns for everyone. Thanks again, Jackie.
Jackie Bucat: So that's going to be really important this year to work out which paddocks you're going to be dropping out and using.
Tim Scanlon: And speaking of that, particularly in relation to the breakevens and the overall gross margins, there's the idea of ⁓ spreading risk targeting a yield. What sort of focus going to sort pay off ⁓ the most nitrogen application?
Jackie Bucat: Thank you, Tim. Obviously we can't put numbers on these things, but that's a great question Tim. So we've got our starting point of making some estimate or measure of what we've got on the paddock. We've got our end point where we're saying there's too much of a risk of these particular paddocks not returning an economic yield. So now we're looking at the middle. Now nitrogen works as we know on the law of diminishing returns. So as the nitrogen rate gets near the maximum economic yield, we're getting less bang for our buck.
Tim Scanlon: The Grains Convo podcast acknowledges Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as the traditional custodians of lands, waterways and skies across Australia. We pay our respects to the Noongar and Yammerji people and their ancestors on whose lands this podcast was recorded. We recognise their continuing connection to the knowledge systems and cultural practices which have sustained landscapes,
Jackie Bucat: And ⁓ I think ⁓ reasonable to spread, ⁓ it's a good thing to spread a reasonable rate further. ⁓ might put a rate on 15 paddocks than doing the perfect rate ⁓ on 10 So let's go that a bit, ⁓ and we can a bit more about that in detail if you'd like, Tim.
Tim Scanlon: supported food production and enabled communities to thrive for generations. Well, there's also some methods where you can actually look at ⁓ you would assess that in season ⁓ like, I'm thinking here again, Dionne previously mentioned nitrogen strips, also mentioned some of other ⁓ options ⁓ terms that ⁓ agronomic ⁓ of
going on in paddock in season. So did you want to discuss that a little? Welcome back to the Grains Convo podcast. This podcast shares independent insights from Deepir's research. We take a look at the work shaping the future of farming in Western Australia to help you think through options and plan ahead for this and future seasons with confidence. So Jackie, also the idea that if you've got limited inputs, you're going to be looking at paddock selection and what we're likely to want to do. you've already mentioned ⁓ that wheat versus canola options. What's likely to be ⁓ potentially dropped from the program?
Jackie Bucat: Well, I just think there is going to be a much harder consideration of dropping paddocks out. So dropping at your least profitable ones, obviously, anything that's running out of in got disease or we build up, you the ones we call the tide paddocks. there be a swing if looking further down tube. What will our night should access be in 2027 season? ⁓ And maybe reason to be considering more pasture or crop legumes. I think brilliant and that's really what I'll end up. I was going to go through some of the trial results, but yes, I think it's a fantastic year to do nitrogen strips. sometimes heard back that farmers don't like doing the nitrogen strips because they don't want to miss the yield, putting less on, ⁓ or this year it's the reverse when you're going to have a strip with more nitrogen than you might have access to overall. as a risk management. we've got potentially limited diesel, obviously you're going to be looking at planning your passes. And will invite a closer look at the probability of returns, ⁓ so for disease and insect sprays. And remembering that DPIRB we've got the Blackleg CEM ⁓ and the Sclerotinia to help you make those decisions. To do your nitrogen strips, we need to plot a curve. So you need to have at least three nitrogen rates and zero treatment with no fertilizer, no nitrogen fertilizer, or maybe just a seeding one. ⁓ So a 2022 paper by Wayne Plusky. I'll come back to that at the end because it steps through this. in a way to use it. the first point, once you've done it, you're obviously going to plot your yield response. we know that that's not always the be all and end all. And what we're really about is maximising the economic return, so your profit. ⁓ then we translate those same numbers into profit maximisation. And the third bit of that data change is ⁓ looking your return on investment. So with we talk about, you you've got your last thousand dollars of investment, you want $2,000 back. That's how we talk, isn't it Tim? Yep. Yep. So, you know, that's, and that's a guess in recognition that we don't quite know what the outcome is going to be. There's a bit of risk there. And also that cost of having all this money, you know, tied up when you could otherwise be investing in the housing market or something. So, we need to look at that marginal return.
Tim Scanlon: Hopefully, hopefully that's how
we talk.
Jackie Bucat: so I definitely suggest this is a great year to ⁓ do ⁓ your own trials your farm. So whether that's paddock runs or small trials and obviously I understand that harvest busy but you know that's something that you could consider outsourcing, Calix Living Farm, Crop Circle, whether that's harvesting strips or doing all it ⁓ and that will give you ⁓ lots of going forward ⁓ to make better nitrogen decisions on your farm.
Tim Scanlon: And just from the point of view of management ⁓ ⁓ paddocks and your overall ⁓ it's good to have this data for ready for ⁓ next so you know what has worked ⁓ and the ⁓ were ⁓ that can ⁓ make future better.
Jackie Bucat: Yes, yes. ⁓ a good point you bring up again Tim because ⁓ can be a difference between a good decision, maybe with your current knowledge, and it be a little bit different than what's the eventual profit winner. But that does not take away from the fact that it was a good decision you made.
Tim Scanlon: Yeah, that's a good point. It's hard to define the future, but ⁓ once know what you're for, it can be easier to make ⁓ the good the ⁓ one pays the ⁓ most consistently. ⁓
Jackie Bucat: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, using that backwards. And I think sometimes limiting fertiliser can be a tricky decision because it's easy to think, okay, well, I'll go and fertilise. You go and do it and you've got a sense of accomplishment. I reckon it must be harder to sit back and not do that. And of course you want to protect your investment, but then you've got to sit with more uncertainty if you decide not to. So I think that's good.
Tim Scanlon: which is where that targeting a yield is the harder decision sometimes. So as bit of a follow-up to that obviously we're talking about ⁓ potentially following up nitrogen applications later in the season. How late ⁓ can nitrogen be to canola and how does that vary across state?
Jackie Bucat: Yes, we've done quite a bit of work on the canola timing of nitrogen. as long as it's had a bit up front, ⁓ still gives us a yield response if we're applying it into flowering, ⁓ start flowering. But I do want to go back and just talk a little bit more, Tim, if I can, about some of the numbers we've got around nitrogen rates when you're deciding.
Tim Scanlon: So this would be upfront rates and follow-up rates.
Jackie Bucat: Well, just when we're deciding about that rate in between, we've got our starting point, we've got our end point, the paddocks aren't going to have it, how are we going to decide between the paddocks we've got, what to do, So in some work that Mark Seymour and Raj Malik did, they had 15 trials in the low and medium rainfall zone. So they had 90 % of the maximum seed yield. at 46 kilos of N per hectare but when we talk about the gross margin it was within 90 % of the gross margin was only at 17 Ks of N per hectare.
Tim Scanlon: which is quite surprising. does show how quickly curve flattens off for the response to nitrogen. ⁓
Jackie Bucat: at quite low rates.
Yes, because there's a rapid response early and then we get a plateauing. That's the same effect we get everywhere, it just matters how high that plateau might be occurring. So when Mark did work in the high rainfall zone, he found 90 % of the maximum yield was at 113 Ks of applied nitrogen per hectare, but the economic rate was less than 100. And out at Esperance, the Esperance Down Research Station,
Tim Scanlon: Yes.
Jackie Bucat: Jeremy Curry has been doing a lot of work. So his starting level was 15, but when it went from 15 to 100 kilos of N, each kilo of N was giving 10 Ks of canola extra yield. So the next 100, every kilo of N gave us 3.5 kilos of canola and the final very high rate. for every kilo of N, you've only got half a kilo of canola extra. So that's just putting some numbers around something we typically say that there's less return. So that's why I'm suggesting a good idea to spread it ⁓ even if it's not quite the optimal, because you want to be in that bit that's responsive.
Tim Scanlon: So growing more, not necessarily for the highest possible yield.
Jackie Bucat: Yeah, as long as you're comfortable that is still going to deliver you above your break even. and so ⁓ where nitrogen is limited, the silver lining that you can expect to have higher content, oil percentage. So yes, yield is king, but that's a little silver lining.
Tim Scanlon: Excellent. obviously ⁓ we're to be ⁓ going out and ⁓ applying nitrogen now and are there any considerations that we need to be taking into account particularly ⁓ if talking nitrogen applications and ⁓ doing tank mixes ⁓ the like. So windows essentially. ⁓
Jackie Bucat: don't think I've got much to say about the spraying windows apart from plan your passes but certainly we want to maximise our nitrogen efficiency one of the things that I think is probably an unseen regular in ⁓ WA farming is fertiliser toxicity from the the nitrogen fertiliser too close to the seed. ⁓ That's particularly ⁓ when its are quite dry.
Tim Scanlon: So making sure that banding is deep enough below coleopter. ⁓
Jackie Bucat: Yep, separate from the seed. Or putting on later. So don't have a real penalty from this precious nitrogen resource we've got this year. And in the same way, looking at maximising your nitrogen efficiency, we want to make sure that the weeds aren't getting the nitrogen as much as possible. And we want to make sure that there's nothing else limiting the plants.
Tim Scanlon: Yes.
Jackie Bucat: So you've already done looked after your soil, but now that we're in crop, want to make sure that the other nutrients aren't limiting. And that trial at Esperance Down Research Station, ⁓ ⁓ yield at over 3 to 300 kilos of N ⁓ was tonnes per hectare. ⁓ But they ⁓ put a double basal amount ⁓ of and trace elements, They got a further 200 kilos of yield.
Tim Scanlon: So as much as we're talking about nitrogen today, we do have to consider the other ⁓ nutritional needs,
Jackie Bucat: Yeah. Yep, and that was after they'd already had quite a good strong basal amount of all of them. yep, making sure there's nothing else limiting so we can maximise the expression of the nitrogen that we have got.