Trascrizione completa di Episode 31 - Smarter than the Average Bear, Crafting Intelligent Characters

the writer, or as you described, 00:05:00.429 --> 00:05:03.399 someone who has almost access to the script itself. Yes. 00:05:03.996 --> 00:05:09.119 That I don't, so that is a form of intelligence, and that is a form of depicted 00:05:09.119 --> 00:05:13.100 intelligence, so absolutely so. It does fall into our category. 00:05:13.878 --> 00:05:17.719 I would say that it will be a different form even though say the Sherlock Holmes 00:05:17.719 --> 00:05:25.098 and the detectives will rely on certain expertises they are using them as a, 00:05:25.985 --> 00:05:30.300 They're using it almost as the technobabble. All a thing. 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:37.350 They're going to have the deductive reasoning. So only so many people have this 00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:40.405 blood type, and only so many people have this water. They have the knowledge. 00:05:40.585 --> 00:05:43.214 No, I'm saying that they don't have the knowledge. 00:05:43.840 --> 00:05:45.310 That they are expressing it 00:05:45.310 --> 00:05:51.016 through a vector that they don't have to have the rest of the knowledge. 00:05:51.306 --> 00:05:55.492 It's the multidisciplinary investigator. the Sherlock Holmes, 00:05:55.776 --> 00:05:56.850 they know everything about everything. 00:05:57.291 --> 00:06:01.630 So they express this little nugget here and this little nugget here and this 00:06:01.630 --> 00:06:05.378 little nugget here. So from a writing point of view, it's incredibly easy. Yes. 00:06:05.674 --> 00:06:14.724 Because we don't need to understand the entire phlebotomy or any about blood in general. 00:06:14.892 --> 00:06:21.380 All we need to know is we've looked up and the most common blood type is this, the AB is... 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:26.547 A bit of research will make your character seem very on the ball. 00:06:26.954 --> 00:06:35.060 So it's absolutely a way to trick intelligence and for the writer to appear 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:38.782 more intelligent than they are because you are essentially limiting the field, 00:06:39.264 --> 00:06:40.940 down to those particular results. 00:06:41.563 --> 00:06:47.576 You're not saying, I know everything. So like, say, in a... You don't have to answer a test on. 00:06:49.820 --> 00:06:55.250 The full details of why, you know, this person has this blood type or this certain blood-borne disease. 00:06:55.656 --> 00:07:00.800 All you're saying is this one fact is true. And indeed, that fact does not have to be true. 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:05.136 It just has to be expressed by a character who has previously been demonstrated 00:07:05.437 --> 00:07:08.148 or has been asserted to be the intelligent person in the room. 00:07:08.328 --> 00:07:12.177 And the reason why I was pushing back on the idea of the interaction is that, 00:07:12.861 --> 00:07:18.799 A, the, the, the, someone can be written as intelligent for the audience to react to. Yeah. 00:07:19.295 --> 00:07:23.265 And someone can be written as, as intelligent for, and for the character, 00:07:23.265 --> 00:07:24.395 for the characters to react to. 00:07:24.835 --> 00:07:28.315 And if the character, so you could have an intelligent person and you have the 00:07:28.315 --> 00:07:32.605 characters going, no, that's, that's, that's just, and who's this fool? 00:07:32.605 --> 00:07:36.962 Who let him in the door? Exactly. And it could be a case that the person is 00:07:37.362 --> 00:07:41.675 proved to be right at the end or they are, or they are put down enough that 00:07:41.675 --> 00:07:44.601 they stop referencing. I mean, you know, that's a character journey. 00:07:45.175 --> 00:07:50.301 So you could have the, so that is beyond simple kind of expression of intelligence. 00:07:50.435 --> 00:07:53.955 It is a absolutely valid part of the thing. 00:07:54.675 --> 00:07:58.545 That's what I'm saying. That's why I was, I was kind of like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:07:58.812 --> 00:08:03.136 It was like, I mean, I don't know if it's, if it's just a common thing with 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:07.485 all mystery writing or if it's, if it's something that it was just Arthur Conan 00:08:07.485 --> 00:08:10.411 Doyle, you know, writing the mysteries backwards. Sure. 00:08:10.741 --> 00:08:16.015 So naturally it's like the hindsight is depicted as genius. Exactly, 00:08:16.015 --> 00:08:20.675 yeah, yes. Well, I would say this is the thing that I think we referenced before 00:08:20.675 --> 00:08:24.771 about this quote we saw about how all stories are made up as they go along. 00:08:24.963 --> 00:08:28.695 No, all stories are all stories, asterisks, are mysteries. Yeah. 00:08:29.136 --> 00:08:32.881 As in every story, you don't know how it's going to end. So every story has mystery elements to it. 00:08:33.815 --> 00:08:37.339 And if you are writing an actual plain murder mystery, you know how it ends. 00:08:37.914 --> 00:08:42.565 You know I've talked before about how I know I originally wrote Parliament Crow 00:08:42.565 --> 00:08:49.510 as a as a TV show and I know the last three episodes I know the songs if it ever became a TV show, 00:08:50.075 --> 00:08:53.225 I know the songs that we're playing you have the soundtrack in your head it's 00:08:53.225 --> 00:08:55.855 already been written and that would have been was the music playing as you were 00:08:55.855 --> 00:08:58.555 writing it not in my head well I'm sorry no I, 00:08:59.695 --> 00:09:02.861 didn't I connected the music to say certain well deaths, 00:09:04.103 --> 00:09:08.220 that and certain moments of import because it was the last three, four episodes. 00:09:09.433 --> 00:09:14.645 That was 105 episodes and there was a lot of stuff not addressed. 00:09:15.125 --> 00:09:19.135 I just basically skipped over episodes. So, like I had full episode one, 00:09:19.135 --> 00:09:23.015 full episode two, full season one, full season two, and then parts of season 00:09:23.015 --> 00:09:25.645 three, parts of season four, and then parts of season five. 00:09:25.645 --> 00:09:26.765

And season five was actually probably 00:09:26.765 --> 00:09:30.260 more populated than four or three because I knew where I was going. 00:09:31.491 --> 00:09:35.415 So, this is a major, it's a mystery show. 00:09:37.185 --> 00:09:41.526 Were you writing it backwards? in that regard like where you go here's the conclusion 00:09:41.956 --> 00:09:47.145 now i'll now i'll i'll kind of go back in time in the narrative and plant the 00:09:47.145 --> 00:09:48.951 clues that they're going to find um, 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:53.425 yes no um in that other than just knowing where you are where you're going to 00:09:53.425 --> 00:09:57.735 end up what did you start writing the end no but i'm well no because because 00:09:57.735 --> 00:10:01.604 it's so vast yeah the way i write it kind of the the part planter part, 00:10:02.132 --> 00:10:06.233 what's your one potter planter yeah is is six of one halves of the other that 00:10:06.558 --> 00:10:08.959 i knew that I would move away, 00:10:10.265 --> 00:10:12.955 and things you also want to forget kind of the ending at the time so you can 00:10:12.955 --> 00:10:19.083 give so you can accidentally give red herrings and write them as authentically as possible, 00:10:20.513 --> 00:10:23.759 So you can expand the world before you actually go, no, these are the correct 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.200 paths that we're going down. Yeah. 00:10:25.640 --> 00:10:30.174 But in any story, the only reason I mention it is that in any story, 00:10:30.754 --> 00:10:38.144 one quote-unquote should, question mark, know the rough idea where you're going to. I'm Ron Bergen? 00:10:39.889 --> 00:10:44.749 Who put the question mark? That one benefits. 00:10:45.349 --> 00:10:48.539 That's the phrase of that. That one benefits from knowing the end of the story. 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:54.266 If you are writing a mystery in which the butler did it, then on page one, 00:10:54.463 --> 00:10:56.979 you need to know the butler did it. The butler has to be there. 00:10:56.979 --> 00:10:59.909 They have to have a butler. They have to have a butler. Yes, very important. 00:11:00.329 --> 00:11:03.089 If you have a servant-less house, you're going to have a problem. 00:11:03.669 --> 00:11:06.689 Haha, it was me all along. Sorry, who are you? Who the fuck are you? 00:11:07.149 --> 00:11:10.979 I'm the butler. You literally haven't been in any of the previous pages. 00:11:10.979 --> 00:11:12.683 Oh, yes. That's a reference. 00:11:13.809 --> 00:11:18.052 It was in Suicide Squad. It's like, what was his name? The guy who died. 00:11:18.817 --> 00:11:23.049 Milton? Who's Milton? And I was like, who's with us? You're like, Milton? 00:11:24.749 --> 00:11:26.433 Oh, Milton. That guy. 00:11:29.349 --> 00:11:34.859 That guy. So it is easy. That's the thing. Because you're in the writer position, 00:11:34.859 --> 00:11:35.669 you have the God position. 00:11:36.089 --> 00:11:40.469 You can give the truth to, and it doesn't matter if those things are accurate. 00:11:40.469 --> 00:11:44.208 This is the thing that I, one thing I wrote down when I, when you mentioned this topic. 00:11:45.148 --> 00:11:48.393 There's a difference in convincing an expert of a thing. Yeah. 00:11:48.666 --> 00:11:49.896 And the general public of a thing. 00:11:50.733 --> 00:11:57.949 So I can say whatever the feck I want about the, say, blood types and whatever 00:11:57.949 --> 00:12:01.645 the phenotypes and all that jazz are the elements inside blood. 00:12:02.133 --> 00:12:04.977 And 90% of the population will buy it, 00:12:06.071 --> 00:12:11.000 10% of the population who have some degree of understanding of blood from nurses 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:14.360 and doctors to, yeah, phlebotomists. I'll say that word again. 00:12:15.002 --> 00:12:18.430 He's like, that guy doesn't even know how platelets work. What the hell? 00:12:18.430 --> 00:12:20.621 Exactly, exactly. What a loser. 00:12:20.807 --> 00:12:24.299 There was a, there was a very bad TV show that did the Iron Fist. 00:12:25.580 --> 00:12:30.340 So I did martial arts for, say, 12, 13 years. And the reason why I say say is 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:32.973 because the last year and a bit where I didn't take COVID out of it. 00:12:34.106 --> 00:12:41.953 And the, it was Kendo the Japanese fencing and in one scene, 00:12:42.621 --> 00:12:47.200 in Iron Fist he goes to a dojo and there's a lot of people who are clearly extras 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.710 who are using Shinai, the bamboo swords from Kendo. 00:12:50.915 --> 00:12:55.191 And at one point, they are, the two of them are standing there face-to-face, 00:12:55.191 --> 00:12:59.911 it's blocked out for a scene and they're using them, they're holding them like 00:12:59.911 --> 00:13:02.150 they are walking sticks. 00:13:02.336 --> 00:13:06.211 Yeah. So the points are down, their hands are on top and they're literally pressing, 00:13:06.211 --> 00:13:07.148 they would be pressing down. 00:13:07.746 --> 00:13:11.241 This is abhorrent. Oh no. To every fucking person. 00:13:11.741 --> 00:13:14.871 Every person who's ever picked up a Shania was told that while you're in this 00:13:14.871 --> 00:13:16.506 dojo, this is very, very specific. 00:13:16.912 --> 00:13:19.001 You guys are, we're not insane. It's an etiquette thing, isn't it? 00:13:19.001 --> 00:13:21.660 Exactly, 100%. It's called reggae. The whole etiquette thing. 00:13:22.258 --> 00:13:27.227 While you're in the dojo, the whole idea of the sword is the soul of the samurai, 00:13:27.651 --> 00:13:29.004 we don't go that far. Yeah. 00:13:29.503 --> 00:13:33.151 But you will treat, I think it's even, there's some training where you use the 00:13:33.151 --> 00:13:38.071 sword as a kind of, put it up behind your back so you can keep your balance 00:13:38.071 --> 00:13:39.426 so you can straighten your back. 00:13:39.885 --> 00:13:44.551 So you do use it in some ways as a tool. Yeah. 00:13:45.246 --> 00:13:51.631 But there is just a underlying base level,

and I think respect almost isn't 00:13:51.631 --> 00:13:54.195 even too big a word it's just something you don't do, 00:13:55.030 --> 00:14:00.711 like I remember I was in a I was in a grading I was one of the teachers so I 00:14:00.711 --> 00:14:06.351 was one of the guys who wasn't grading that day and there was a lineup of all 00:14:06.351 --> 00:14:09.321 the all the all the swords and all the armor and. 00:14:10.241 --> 00:14:14.481 If you can imagine just a line of sticks yeah and one guy just then went and 00:14:14.481 --> 00:14:18.981 ran down the long line jumping over every stick and I was like you don't do 00:14:18.981 --> 00:14:22.581 it the eyes start twitching And I grabbed him as soon as he got over the last one. 00:14:22.961 --> 00:14:26.194 You have dishonored me. Exactly. No, he has dishonored every step. 00:14:26.426 --> 00:14:30.205 Dishonor isn't too big a word, but it's, I can't think of it as well, 00:14:30.373 --> 00:14:34.994 but it's like, it's just, and I grabbed the guy and I went, what did you just do? 00:14:35.313 --> 00:14:38.701 And he looked back and went, oh Jesus. And unfortunately, no one, 00:14:39.181 --> 00:14:41.611 none of the judges saw him, and he had already passed, it was all grand. 00:14:42.221 --> 00:14:45.581 But he immediately knew, he understood why he shouldn't have done it. He just walked around. 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.684 So when you see it on the TV show, in Iron Fist, with them holding him, 00:14:51.684 --> 00:14:56.944 in admittedly perhaps a cooler looking pose, that the scene set up was like, 00:14:56.944 --> 00:14:58.894 oh yeah, hold it like this, because it looks good. 00:14:58.894 --> 00:15:02.049 You've seen many, many, you've seen Conan the Barbarian, sword down, 00:15:02.339 --> 00:15:05.674 hands over top, look at me, I'm big and strong. It's recognizable, 00:15:05.674 --> 00:15:09.022 yeah. It is a, it's a common, it's a common pose. Yeah. 00:15:09.575 --> 00:15:15.106 And I was like this is the part also and some may disagree is that, 00:15:16.364 --> 00:15:21.734 when you receive a when you buy a Shani from a store you won't go find them 00:15:21.734 --> 00:15:25.704 in Ireland you'll have to buy them from other places so you receive them in 00:15:25.704 --> 00:15:28.384 the post Is it like Olly van der's wands in Harry Potter? They're not, 00:15:30.444 --> 00:15:34.424 these are real and they're important They select their owner or anything that, 00:15:36.657 --> 00:15:40.810 there is plastic wrapping it comes it comes you know it comes wrapped in plastic and, 00:15:41.321 --> 00:15:46.694 there are three threads around the way that basically it's it's it's a bamboo 00:15:46.694 --> 00:15:48.124 that has been bound together 00:15:48.564 --> 00:15:52.094 um and there's three threads and you basically you remove the threads yeah there's 00:15:52.094 --> 00:15:56.864 two two red and one gold you remove the threads okay now because i've heard 00:15:56.864 --> 00:16:00.424 from people that you don't you don't do this you let them fall off i'm. 00:16:02.737 --> 00:16:09.324 So, so every shunai in this room, everyone had all the, had all the red threads. 00:16:09.701 --> 00:16:12.021 So they hadn't taken, it's like not taking off the packing material. 00:16:12.021 --> 00:16:16.998 Yeah. No, that was a diatron. So the reason, the reason, but I noticed it. Yes. 00:16:17.265 --> 00:16:22.261 No one else will. Because of your degree of expertise and knowledge of the particular 00:16:22.261 --> 00:16:25.901 stuff. I have a foundational knowledge, you know, expertise called just as a, 00:16:25.901 --> 00:16:31.175 just a foundational knowledge of that sport, of the use of those particular items, those weapons. 00:16:31.448 --> 00:16:34.918 I have an understanding that no one else will see so, 00:16:35.984 --> 00:16:41.021 should you be so this is the way the question so should you be writing with an eye to, 00:16:41.741 --> 00:16:45.951 to get past me yeah or to get past you in this regard as you know you have your 00:16:45.951 --> 00:16:52.581 own expertise i have i have mine so should you be writing to clear past me or, 00:16:53.141 --> 00:16:55.727 or to clear past you to because you will never see enough, 00:16:57.177 --> 00:16:58.947 That's a very good question. 00:17:01.083 --> 00:17:06.787 Because, like you say, most people won't notice, but I don't know. 00:17:07.739 --> 00:17:13.667 It could be a question of if you want to put forward a degree and a level of 00:17:13.667 --> 00:17:18.217 expertise, or at least demonstrate the research you've put into the topic that 00:17:18.217 --> 00:17:20.830 you're talking about, you do need to kind of clear it. 00:17:21.501 --> 00:17:23.987 It does need to be real unless you're 00:17:23.987 --> 00:17:29.247 you're delving into like you know uh pseudoscience or kind of magic areas, 00:17:29.767 --> 00:17:34.707 that no one can dispute what what you're doing yes because you have invented 00:17:34.707 --> 00:17:41.567 this method and you've invented these things so like in for example in a fantasy world the, 00:17:42.607 --> 00:17:47.897 the nature even as as far down as like the minerals of the rocks or the the 00:17:47.897 --> 00:17:51.255 type of elements that are making up the world might have different, 00:17:52.347 --> 00:17:57.097 or the botany might be slightly different and have a different effect on the 00:17:57.097 --> 00:17:59.620 physiology of the character. 00:18:00.206 --> 00:18:04.487 Sure, but that's an excellent point that I wanted to return to, 00:18:04.487 --> 00:18:07.823 but stay on just on the expertise just for the moment. 00:18:07.934 --> 00:18:11.307 Yeah, I think it definitely needs to have... 00:18:11.767 --> 00:18:15.127 Real world expertise, sorry. Real world expertise has to have that. 00:18:15.127 --> 00:18:19.887 If you want what you're saying to be taken seriously, then I think it does need 00:18:20.187 --> 00:18:22.267 to pass all the gates. Yeah.

00:18:23.423 --> 00:18:29.937 So I would tend to agree, and as a while in my head, slightly disagreeing, 00:18:29.937 --> 00:18:34.057 but yes, so I 100% agree that it's down to the research. 00:18:34.057 --> 00:18:36.867 And this is, I think, a key point on how do you write intelligent characters 00:18:36.867 --> 00:18:39.249 or how do you pass the expert test? 00:18:40.688 --> 00:18:46.178 Is that you do the research into the topic to the point that you get past, 00:18:46.178 --> 00:18:50.131 like, this show is about a martial artist. Yeah. 00:18:50.795 --> 00:18:54.178 And that's the real thing. Yeah, yeah. If it was a show about, 00:18:54.178 --> 00:18:56.893 like, say there's, I think in Ant-Man, 00:18:58.252 --> 00:19:03.709 where there's a scene where, in the first Ant-Man, where Angeline Lilly teaches 00:19:03.860 --> 00:19:08.007 Rud Paul some fighting, some fighting. But it's not a martial art movie. 00:19:08.808 --> 00:19:14.148 And in that scene, again because I'll take liberties I'll take my clear you 00:19:14.148 --> 00:19:17.908 know my clear knowledge I'm looking around the room and it looks like, 00:19:18.408 --> 00:19:22.148 to me that it was they went to a martial arts store and just went just give 00:19:22.148 --> 00:19:23.908 us a bit of everything yeah like I won't there's, 00:19:24.439 --> 00:19:27.486 a we need to learn fight exactly. 00:19:29.024 --> 00:19:35.098 Teach us fight teach us fight yes yes that's yes that's yeah at one point there's 00:19:35.098 --> 00:19:41.268 a poster on the wall of a guy in a for the for the stance of a side profile 00:19:41.268 --> 00:19:43.158 stance of a kendo person. 00:19:43.158 --> 00:19:47.548 And that's what picked out because, yeah, I didn't see, I didn't pick out the 00:19:47.548 --> 00:19:50.810 taekwondo stuff, I didn't pick out the kenpo stuff, I didn't pick out the sholene stuff. 00:19:50.990 --> 00:19:56.371 No, from my own, but I saw that and went, that doesn't fit in here. Yeah. 00:19:56.707 --> 00:20:00.893 And on the wall, there was a bunch of different weapons from different types of martial arts. 00:20:01.988 --> 00:20:05.158 And there was a few shanai thrown in for good measure. And they looked slightly 00:20:05.158 --> 00:20:10.242 worn, as if they say, just give us your old stuff for fight. so, 00:20:11.081 --> 00:20:17.348 I think in that, I would not have had a major problem with it because it's not a focus. 00:20:17.748 --> 00:20:23.428 It's like, we'll just cover the scene in what looks like vaguely Eastern or 00:20:23.808 --> 00:20:28.002 Eastern European, or sorry, Eastern aesthetic. Yes, exactly. Just give it a... 00:20:29.368 --> 00:20:33.110 So that's why I had this small amount of questions. But if the person, 00:20:33.424 --> 00:20:38.798 or if the scene, if the part of the story requires this person to be an expert 00:20:38.798 --> 00:20:43.208 in a thing, then they should know the details around that thing. 00:20:43.788 --> 00:20:47.408 I think so, yeah.

That there's the facts of the case, and there's the wisdom, 00:20:47.408 --> 00:20:52.490 as you mentioned before, the wisdom around the facts. The, that... 00:20:54.555 --> 00:21:00.355 They have to know what's right and what's wrong in their chosen specialized subject. 00:21:00.355 --> 00:21:06.426 Yeah, so for example, when I'm writing sword fighting and, say, 00:21:06.553 --> 00:21:12.148 armor pieces or the mechanics of a trebuchet or a ballista, 00:21:13.995 --> 00:21:22.445 so I'm looking at real-world examples of, say, what distance and what size of 00:21:22.445 --> 00:21:24.695 shot could a ballista fire? 00:21:25.675 --> 00:21:28.395 What is the maximum weight that this, 00:21:28.965 --> 00:21:33.551 thing could be in order to move it successfully on a military campaign? 00:21:33.888 --> 00:21:38.468 I'm looking at the armor pieces, you know, what areas are exposed on the body 00:21:38.735 --> 00:21:39.995 given a certain type of armor. 00:21:39.995 --> 00:21:43.975 So that's the kind of research I'm doing. Now, I'm not an armor expert, 00:21:43.975 --> 00:21:49.105 but if I kind of hone in on if I have an idea in my head as to what I want to 00:21:49.105 --> 00:21:52.354 happen in the story, then I will retroactively, 00:21:53.015 --> 00:21:57.455 look that up and conduct research to see if it's plausible or not or if I have 00:21:57.455 --> 00:22:00.933 to maybe change the scene a little bit in order to. 00:22:02.015 --> 00:22:08.988 Make it so like that the armor expert or the military combat expert will go yeah alright, 00:22:09.713 --> 00:22:14.975 yeah actually that's fair you make an excellent example but while you were talking 00:22:14.975 --> 00:22:19.705 about it I think you took us in a different direction which is a great one which 00:22:19.705 --> 00:22:23.810 is Not just the expert, but the world itself. 00:22:24.774 --> 00:22:27.145 That's more talking about the author, I suppose, than the character. 00:22:27.145 --> 00:22:32.045 Yes, but the idea that you are going to have a, say, a trebuchet, 00:22:32.045 --> 00:22:37.475 and no one, say, in that war may be the one, the expert on the trebuchet. 00:22:37.475 --> 00:22:43.715 It may be just, it's become so understood that, you know, a level of engineering 00:22:43.715 --> 00:22:47.265 that they can fire these trebuchets, and they can be 5-pound shot, 00:22:47.265 --> 00:22:49.045 10-pound shot, 20-pound shot, for example. 00:22:50.013 --> 00:22:51.708 Don't know if it's 20 pounds. I just think things, you know, 00:22:51.708 --> 00:22:55.028 I said that I don't know if it's 20 pounds is too big and five pounds is too 00:22:55.028 --> 00:22:57.048 small. You know, it's like it would never do anything. 00:22:57.508 --> 00:23:02.708 Yeah. Well, as long as the engineering is consistent with the design and the build, you can scale. 00:23:03.808 --> 00:23:07.717 So, but you're not having a character in body that information. 00:23:07.937 --> 00:23:12.680 You are building it into

the world. So, as you say that, when the, 00:23:13.028 --> 00:23:16.013 when the expert reads this, they can go, yeah. 00:23:16.251 --> 00:23:23.448 Yeah. And indeed, you are, so not just, you are you're putting a character in 00:23:23.448 --> 00:23:25.128 who is intelligent you're putting the world, 00:23:26.288 --> 00:23:29.928 you're making the world more authentic by having that included well I think, 00:23:30.428 --> 00:23:34.638 I think like each of the characters in order to kind of round them out as well 00:23:34.638 --> 00:23:37.464 they certain characters are more, 00:23:38.388 --> 00:23:43.928 have more expertise in certain areas than others so for example the knight Rosalind 00:23:43.928 --> 00:23:49.048 as a knight would know how the placement of armour the strength you know what's 00:23:49.488 --> 00:23:52.528 she has been through it all her life I'm suggesting that in the fighting, 00:23:53.268 --> 00:23:58.027 you're not going to have Rosalind saying I'm doing this now I'm doing that you're 00:23:58.205 --> 00:24:03.336 you're you're putting it in the prose rather than the mouths of the characters yeah that the that, 00:24:04.515 --> 00:24:10.635 by essentially almost by cutting and pasting like listening to that one video 00:24:10.635 --> 00:24:17.635 or doing that research about so in this like all you have to even for to make it the authentic, 00:24:18.315 --> 00:24:19.756 the authenticity of it. 00:24:21.375 --> 00:24:27.095 Comes from this research that you say okay during this battle these Trebuchet where they'd fire 00:24:27.455 --> 00:24:30.955 the shot from this range to this range that they could fire you know and all 00:24:30.955 --> 00:24:36.615 you have to do almost is copy and paste that phrase out i'm putting in i don't but yeah. 00:24:37.875 --> 00:24:44.235 It is it is almost that simple to create a sense of of authenticity and intelligence and, 00:24:44.915 --> 00:24:50.905 in the working because you don't have to have the engineer no say this is what 00:24:50.905 --> 00:24:56.744 we're doing yeah you don't have to have because i guess the the uh you don't have to have. 00:24:57.626 --> 00:25:01.602 The character express all this information no because they have actually that's 00:25:01.602 --> 00:25:03.482 that's that's quite a good point that i 00:25:03.882 --> 00:25:07.512 i wanted to bring up so that brings me to a point that you did that you just 00:25:07.808 --> 00:25:12.818 triggered in my mind is that quite often like even like hyper we call them, 00:25:13.398 --> 00:25:16.900 hyper intelligent characters as they're written so they're supposed to know all the things, 00:25:17.533 --> 00:25:22.442 but you will notice and you notice it with sherlock holmes and you notice it 00:25:22.442 --> 00:25:26.422 with the likes of spock for example like spock is, 00:25:27.274 --> 00:25:31.362 supposed to be this hyper-intelligent, logical character that, 00:25:31.883 --> 00:25:34.797 you know, science officer and all

the rest. Leonard Nimoy's book, sure, okay. 00:25:35.534 --> 00:25:40.612 Yes, specifically. But quite often in... And Zachary Quinton. 00:25:40.612 --> 00:25:43.096 Oh yeah, okay, we'll take it. That is, that's it. 00:25:43.630 --> 00:25:49.692 But there is a... I think it's consistent enough to be a thing where intelligent 00:25:49.692 --> 00:25:54.230 characters are the ones that simplify it for everyone else around them. 00:25:54.909 --> 00:26:00.574 Like Spock does that quite often, he reduces it down to, this means this, Captain. 00:26:00.992 --> 00:26:03.562 You know, he knows, he has the intelligence, he's able to figure out, 00:26:03.562 --> 00:26:09.082 but he kind of, he gets rid of the fat and says, this is what we have to do 00:26:09.082 --> 00:26:12.591 because this is the situation. Okay, but is this a good thing or bad thing? 00:26:12.852 --> 00:26:16.892 So yes, it is an excellent point, I do agree with it. 00:26:19.323 --> 00:26:24.668 In the expression to either the character or the audience that they simplify 00:26:24.668 --> 00:26:26.984 it down, yes. Should they? 00:26:28.208 --> 00:26:32.287 Well, I think it's more believable of an intelligent character to, 00:26:32.531 --> 00:26:35.908 like, if he's surrounded by non-geniuses. 00:26:36.948 --> 00:26:38.208 Genii? Geniuses. 00:26:39.328 --> 00:26:44.256 Like, they would probably go, okay, well, in simple terms, this is what's going on. 00:26:44.436 --> 00:26:49.742 Yes, but I'm not a fan. And I, every time I get to that point in a story, 00:26:49.939 --> 00:26:56.465 every fucking time I get to that point, I don't want, I want to keep it understood. Yeah. 00:26:56.987 --> 00:27:01.566 But I don't, like, one of my most hated adages is, keep it simple, stupid. 00:27:02.450 --> 00:27:07.408 I fucking hate it. And whether it's dealing with people in the real world or, 00:27:08.288 --> 00:27:10.008 my characters on the page. Yeah. 00:27:11.271 --> 00:27:16.275 I want them to have an understanding that I don't have to simplify it. 00:27:16.525 --> 00:27:21.821 Indeed, to reference what I was talking about before, that one of the comments 00:27:21.821 --> 00:27:27.717 I got back from the first of the quantum fantasy books was that it had cliches. 00:27:28.451 --> 00:27:32.511 It was cliched. Right. Yes, because I want to put everything in place that you 00:27:32.511 --> 00:27:36.911 know which versions of things I'm using before I then go along and have the 00:27:36.911 --> 00:27:39.051 conversation later on that you're going to now understand. Yeah. 00:27:39.661 --> 00:27:43.801 So I don't have to spend every minute going, well, this person is using witch 00:27:43.801 --> 00:27:46.391 magic, and this person is using hermetic magic, and this person is using fey 00:27:46.391 --> 00:27:48.102 magic, and this person is using quantumancy. 00:27:48.462 --> 00:27:51.231 Oh, I don't understand the difference. I've spent all this time. 00:27:51.231 --> 00:27:52.827 I told you, book one. Yes. 00:27:53.331 --> 00:27:57.221 So when you get to the final battle, and you have everyone falling into place, 00:27:57.221 --> 00:28:02.271 and suddenly it all makes sense, and suddenly this mosaic appears before you, you go, ooh. 00:28:03.688 --> 00:28:08.131 Now I understand why you spent so much time detailing out the bits and pieces. 00:28:08.131 --> 00:28:12.021 Yeah, of course. This is why I have, you know, 13 different hermetic houses. 00:28:12.021 --> 00:28:14.729 This is why everything's broken down into their particular pieces. 00:28:15.385 --> 00:28:17.791 It all makes, hopefully, hopefully. 00:28:18.891 --> 00:28:22.467 There's no wood here to knock on other than my head. Other than my head, absolutely. 00:28:22.711 --> 00:28:27.811 So hopefully that they all kind of come together. So the idea of, 00:28:28.571 --> 00:28:35.511 I'm not sure if it's a quality, it's definitely a common use trope of the simplification aspect. 00:28:36.011 --> 00:28:39.143 So I wouldn't because you don't have to be an expert to simplify something. 00:28:40.327 --> 00:28:44.607 Or to suggest a metaphor that simplifies it, as happens in TNG. 00:28:45.487 --> 00:28:52.715 Yeah, yeah. But like, I think it's probably a more realistic version of an intelligent 00:28:52.947 --> 00:28:58.778 person in those situations to kind of boil it down to what is needed in this situation. 00:28:58.981 --> 00:29:02.527 They might understand the complexities of, you know, what's, 00:29:03.236 --> 00:29:05.757 you know, neutrinos and what's tachyons. 00:29:05.757 --> 00:29:11.277 And they get it and like all the knowledge comes into their head and it's able 00:29:11.277 --> 00:29:14.627 to be filtered rather than I think it might be perhaps, 00:29:15.427 --> 00:29:21.406 a mistake to have you know the character spouting lots of science-y stuff Right 00:29:21.510 --> 00:29:25.507 for example and the reader's kind of going okay are you giving me a lecture 00:29:25.507 --> 00:29:28.207 here or are you moving on with the story do you know what I mean? 00:29:28.207 --> 00:29:32.657 No I get that absolutely I don't think I've said my piece I don't think that 00:29:32.657 --> 00:29:36.258 it's a necessity but I think it's absolutely that has happened. 00:29:37.067 --> 00:29:41.687 But to go back to one thing you mentioned before, or that we all, 00:29:42.067 --> 00:29:43.155 I think we almost ran into. 00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:51.084 One aspect so that aspect of of expressing of how to express an intelligent character. 00:29:52.347 --> 00:29:57.774 Through simplification yeah another way that that's that commonly happens is 00:29:58.192 --> 00:30:02.750 you express it by dumbing down other characters that's a very good point, 00:30:03.586 --> 00:30:09.950 this is an annoyance to me especially if you have say especially in say tv shows 00:30:09.950 --> 00:30:14.163 where you where you spend a lot of time bigging up your core cast. Yeah. 00:30:14.662 --> 00:30:18.920 And then you have

a new character coming in and instead of bigging them up in 00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:25.130 their own way, you reduce the other characters in order to show them how to shine. 00:30:25.430 --> 00:30:31.442 Danger, danger. Exactly. And this is, you essentially, you neg your own characters, 00:30:32.237 --> 00:30:36.840 in order to make another shine. Yeah, so is your character brilliant or is everyone 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:39.070 else, did their IQs just suddenly drop? Exactly. 00:30:39.470 --> 00:30:42.690 And the thing is, that in itself, that one line I like I was like the, 00:30:43.510 --> 00:30:49.130 IQ suddenly drops sharp follows away the but the idea of, 00:30:49.810 --> 00:30:56.030 of that the person who you the audience or the reader previously relied on as 00:30:56.030 --> 00:30:58.533 the intelligence suddenly being knocked down a peg or two, 00:30:59.196 --> 00:31:03.490 to demonstrate someone else's intelligence no it is that every time I see that 00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:08.124 happens happening whether it be in my own writing or when someone else's it is a, 00:31:08.889 --> 00:31:11.390 it's not I think I can understand it as well, 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:16.801 I kill my darlings or I diminish I diminish my own darlings. 00:31:18.990 --> 00:31:25.030 No this is a bit worse than that yes it is this is not to do with your this 00:31:25.030 --> 00:31:27.575 is a you haven't found a better way. 00:31:29.833 --> 00:31:35.135 A rising tide lifts all boats to use another another adage that it should be 00:31:35.135 --> 00:31:40.645 the case that the if you have established an intelligent character in a certain field like say science, 00:31:41.705 --> 00:31:45.955 the science person and then another person comes along like the I'll use the 00:31:45.955 --> 00:31:51.385 example from Marvel which causes it's a common enough trope where they are removing the gem in, 00:31:52.204 --> 00:31:56.745 not not the final adventure movie they won beforehand what's it called was it 00:31:56.745 --> 00:31:59.425 not end game Infinity War Affinity War, yes. 00:32:00.205 --> 00:32:04.655 They're looking to remove the gem from Vision's head. Yeah. And this is something 00:32:04.655 --> 00:32:09.125 that has been studied at length by Banner and by Stark. 00:32:09.665 --> 00:32:14.005 And then Ciri comes along and goes, so why don't we just do them all at the 00:32:14.005 --> 00:32:17.724 same time? And I was like, we didn't think about that. It's like, no, they would have. 00:32:18.585 --> 00:32:21.664 Yeah, or they didn't have access to the technology. And that's the thing, 00:32:21.849 --> 00:32:26.115 they didn't express her ability as an understanding of the technology that they 00:32:26.115 --> 00:32:30.105 have access to in Wakanda. Yeah. It was an expression of her being better than them. 00:32:30.866 --> 00:32:34.025 And they could have done that. It's like, you didn't think of that? Are you both? 00:32:35.045 --> 00:32:39.355 Which are multiple degrees and doctorates and genius level intelligence. 00:32:39.355 --> 00:32:42.985 And years of actually study. Yeah. And it's really fucking annoying. 00:32:44.187 --> 00:32:47.665 Especially such a simple premise. Yes. It's like they would have gone through 00:32:47.665 --> 00:32:51.965 the list of every possibility. Yes. If they were tasked with something. Exactly. 00:32:52.325 --> 00:32:56.555 But they could have shown everyone. They could have shown respect for the ones 00:32:56.555 --> 00:33:00.999 who had, you know, absolutely bring someone in with greater insight bring someone I just, 00:33:02.105 --> 00:33:06.685 I just did a training session with some of my staff and one thing I mentioned, 00:33:07.505 --> 00:33:13.075 was that you can come with good ideas new ideas I'm not I don't cleave to my 00:33:13.075 --> 00:33:14.674 thinking this is my solution ha ha ha, 00:33:15.418 --> 00:33:20.323 absolutely come to me with your own ideas, including ideas that we looked at 00:33:20.323 --> 00:33:23.213 before. Yes. Before they came into the team. Have a fresh look. 00:33:24.353 --> 00:33:26.753 You know, because at that time, we may not have had the technology, 00:33:26.753 --> 00:33:31.223 we may not have had the understanding, or that we tried a thing and we didn't work. 00:33:31.572 --> 00:33:33.876 That doesn't mean it can't work in the future. Yeah, of course. 00:33:34.718 --> 00:33:38.758 Them coming along and going, I can see that you looked at this in the past. 00:33:39.426 --> 00:33:42.435 We have a thing that can do it. We can think that we might be able to do it. 00:33:42.435 --> 00:33:48.225 But I think with your intelligence, your previous research, my understanding 00:33:48.225 --> 00:33:52.425 of this technology, we can come together and collaborate. 00:33:52.425 --> 00:33:56.928 And collaborate. And so you're showing respect to the person who went before. 00:33:57.195 --> 00:33:58.727 You're showing respect to their study. 00:33:59.163 --> 00:34:02.460 You're showing them to be intelligent. Yes. And you're showing the new person going. 00:34:02.965 --> 00:34:07.034 Is also intelligent. It's also intelligent, and it's not just saying, 00:34:07.765 --> 00:34:08.945 I'm relying on this technology. 00:34:08.945 --> 00:34:14.145 It is, I've had access to this technology, I can now apply it to your thing. 00:34:14.145 --> 00:34:17.295 And it also is saying things like, I like the line about, you know, 00:34:17.295 --> 00:34:23.845 it's in Masterpiece Society, the TNG episode, where they solve it by applying, 00:34:24.325 --> 00:34:25.645 LaForge's visor technology. 00:34:27.065 --> 00:34:31.872 To fixing the, or to changing the tractor beam. 00:34:32.307 --> 00:34:35.326 They do it in pulses rather than in one long beam. 00:34:35.989 --> 00:34:38.495 Necessity is the father of invention or the mother of invention. 00:34:38.495 --> 00:34:39.445 It's a parent of invention. 00:34:40.198 --> 00:34:46.717 So, and that's another example

where you have a scientist who is the best scientist of their generation. 00:34:46.833 --> 00:34:48.877 Yeah. And she is absolutely wonderful at what she does. 00:34:49.564 --> 00:34:53.325 And you have LaForge who is a great engineer and they come together. 00:34:53.705 --> 00:34:57.565 Yeah, it's a collaboration of intelligence. Or like with Hail Mary where you 00:34:57.565 --> 00:35:01.653 have Rocky who is an engineer and Grace who is the scientist. 00:35:02.181 --> 00:35:03.445 And they work together. Yeah. 00:35:04.015 --> 00:35:10.495 And all the, all the jokes between the two of them, that, that is what solidifies that movie for me. 00:35:10.495 --> 00:35:12.935 That was just. Yeah, I really enjoyed that one. It's fantastic. 00:35:12.935 --> 00:35:15.525 Where, where Grace is like, he puts a little puppet show on for me, 00:35:15.865 --> 00:35:19.995 or where, before they go off and to harvest the, the stuff, it's like, 00:35:19.995 --> 00:35:23.957 and Rock is going, do puppet show, do puppet show. And, and, and he goes, so, 00:35:24.671 --> 00:35:30.420 We go into orbit, or we go in alongside them. Great, okay. I didn't think of that, Rocky says. 00:35:30.797 --> 00:35:37.570 I did. Yeah. And it's just, it is a wonderful moment of people working together. 00:35:38.059 --> 00:35:42.470 Both of them are bigged up. Yeah, you're not diminishing anybody's character, 00:35:42.470 --> 00:35:45.730 or previously established character, more importantly. Yeah. 00:35:46.090 --> 00:35:50.650 You're not being inconsistent with the level of intelligence in the room. Yeah. 00:35:51.928 --> 00:35:55.720 You're allowing them to, and expressing their character as well. 00:35:55.720 --> 00:36:00.250 Rocky in that scene, a little bit of a dick, funny, funny, funny dick. 00:36:02.701 --> 00:36:10.698 It's just these wonderful moments of how you express these ideas to one another. 00:36:12.637 --> 00:36:16.724 You'll have you will have perhaps it's not actually it would be the same what 00:36:16.724 --> 00:36:20.943 you said about about simplifying it down Rocky asked him to do a puppet show, 00:36:21.592 --> 00:36:26.474 so that he could find his own way to the answer yeah which is not the so it's 00:36:26.474 --> 00:36:29.665 not so maybe Rocky couldn't because of lack of of, 00:36:30.434 --> 00:36:34.321 their limitations on their language so he couldn't express the full full understanding 00:36:34.604 --> 00:36:39.834 to him so he got him to make him figure it out himself this is still wonderful yeah, 00:36:41.175 --> 00:36:43.368 it's a pretty pretty good movie it's a it's a yeah. 00:36:44.834 --> 00:36:48.274 And and there's other reasons why it's very very good especially the ending 00:36:48.274 --> 00:36:51.914 as I could I could talk about the ending as in just the idea of him being the coward, 00:36:53.171 --> 00:36:57.381 to the to the nth degree as I I almost battled with that idea afterwards going 00:36:57.800 --> 00:37:00.994 he didn't want to

be there yeah he is the hero who really didn't want to be 00:37:00.994 --> 00:37:05.875 there yeah he was hero yeah so really awesome that that part alone could be 00:37:06.137 --> 00:37:08.580 an episode and a half anyway so yeah so 00:37:09.020 --> 00:37:12.509 don't diminish everyone around the intelligent person. 00:37:12.735 --> 00:37:15.674 Exactly. For the sake of their intelligence. Yes, that it is. 00:37:16.254 --> 00:37:19.314 You are, you're diminishing everyone by doing it. Yeah. 00:37:19.634 --> 00:37:23.034 Because you have established that with the audience. The audience that understands 00:37:23.302 --> 00:37:24.666 this is where everyone is. 00:37:26.074 --> 00:37:31.237 And I think when mass media does it, maybe I'm being extreme, 00:37:31.429 --> 00:37:34.994 it devalues the understanding of science. 00:37:34.994 --> 00:37:39.114 It doesn't, like, yes, we had someone in the White House who, 00:37:40.514 --> 00:37:43.904 devalued science during COVID but I always think that the guy that stared at 00:37:43.904 --> 00:37:49.824 the solar eclipse I can't think what his name was but yeah he's still if we 00:37:49.824 --> 00:37:53.314 stop saying it maybe he'll go away oh yeah it's like the opposite of saying, 00:37:54.434 --> 00:37:56.674 bloody Mary in the mirror yeah but, 00:37:58.002 --> 00:38:05.881 those sort of mass media movies did or can have a negative effect on people's, 00:38:06.334 --> 00:38:09.394 accepting of what expertise is So this is. 00:38:11.345 --> 00:38:16.799 Hopefully I won't go into a diatribe with this, but the idea of respect for the experts. 00:38:17.878 --> 00:38:24.025 So when we do depict that expert, it can't be just, or can't be, 00:38:24.565 --> 00:38:27.826 it shouldn't be just the individual pieces. 00:38:28.495 --> 00:38:34.989 Because one has to respect that if that expert reads it, that should it, 00:38:35.369 --> 00:38:37.324 you know, let's go back to that martial arts scene. 00:38:38.864 --> 00:38:45.139 And while I said that, I can understand if the moment isn't about, 00:38:45.139 --> 00:38:49.624 or the movie isn't about martial arts, then sure, you can kind of get past it. 00:38:50.701 --> 00:38:57.289 But should you? Yeah. Should you diminish what is a, for some, 00:38:57.289 --> 00:39:02.389 a lifelong pursuit as just a flippant pursuit? 00:39:03.870 --> 00:39:08.253 Outside of comedy, of course. But if you're doing a drama, a thriller, 00:39:09.413 --> 00:39:17.113 which most science fiction is or fantasy is, then the idea of just having this 00:39:17.113 --> 00:39:18.153 sort of stuff thrown away. 00:39:18.153 --> 00:39:25.283 Yeah, if it's a drama or if it's serious or if those aspects of the martial 00:39:25.283 --> 00:39:28.493 art are even central to the story, 00:39:29.193 --> 00:39:37.313 as in the stories about a kendo fighter, you know or the story or whatever's setting if, 00:39:38.253 --> 00:39:46.173 the more that the focus of the lens is on those things the background kind of mistakes. 00:39:47.553 --> 00:39:52.303 Are starkly contrasted i mean that the story is a way so but if your if your 00:39:52.303 --> 00:39:56.813 story is about that thing then absolutely you have to be the thing but Conversely, if it's not. 00:39:57.590 --> 00:40:02.634 That's the question that I'm raising, that if it's a... 00:40:03.781 --> 00:40:04.994 Like, here's an example. 00:40:06.202 --> 00:40:10.468 It's not possible to do what Bane did in Dark Knight Rises. 00:40:10.921 --> 00:40:15.549 It's not possible to sell everyone's fortune, or say a single person's fortune, 00:40:16.076 --> 00:40:19.053 with a thumbprint or a single signature. 00:40:19.053 --> 00:40:23.363 Nor is it possible to get the entire police force underground. 00:40:23.363 --> 00:40:27.153 Yes. There's a, yes. They go, get everyone down there. What? No. Yes. 00:40:27.953 --> 00:40:30.873 It's the lesser of the three, but still. We still have calls to do. 00:40:30.873 --> 00:40:33.763 There's domestic violence. There's robberies. There's, you know, 00:40:33.763 --> 00:40:37.683 we're, no, we're not sending every police officer underground. 00:40:37.683 --> 00:40:40.660 Yeah. Well, they didn't. There was a bunch still up there, but they went into hiding. 00:40:40.875 --> 00:40:44.503 Yeah. We'll do a systematic search that takes six months and everyone's on overtime, 00:40:44.503 --> 00:40:46.615 but we'll do it with a smaller group of people. Sure. 00:40:47.073 --> 00:40:52.591 But the, so the idea of being able to sell someone's, sell someone's fortune 00:40:52.852 --> 00:40:55.453 is something that has been repeated. It was done in the Westworld. 00:40:55.813 --> 00:40:58.454 It was done in Dark Knight. It was done in a few different things. 00:40:59.824 --> 00:41:04.655 And it can't be done. So it is a misunderstanding of financial services. 00:41:05.183 --> 00:41:12.255 And indeed, I saw a great takedown of the Westworld a few, well, 00:41:12.255 --> 00:41:16.643 it was from a few years ago. I saw it again recently, where one of the commentators 00:41:17.067 --> 00:41:19.174 has a degree in economics. 00:41:19.365 --> 00:41:21.755 And he's like, yeah, this didn't get past me at all. 00:41:22.458 --> 00:41:27.235 Because on the screen at one point they show a screen where someone has diversified 00:41:27.235 --> 00:41:33.495 has a diversified portfolio across different stocks and properties and asset classes and where where, 00:41:34.035 --> 00:41:38.724 you need to have a market open a market or even a market created 00:41:39.118 --> 00:41:43.655 to sell something yeah it's not authentic where yeah and it's a major plot point 00:41:43.655 --> 00:41:48.715 of that movie and it's completely inauthentic and but it diminishes the understanding 00:41:48.715 --> 00:41:50.075 this is why when people go, 00:41:51.279 --> 00:41:56.149 one of the points that he made, and I think that it's his, he made this point 00:41:56.149 --> 00:41:58.701 back when the show was on,

which was, I don't know, five years ago, 00:41:59.316 --> 00:42:02.019 that personal value, or sorry, 00:42:02.939 --> 00:42:08.499 the Ford's top 500, you know, that racist from South Africa, 00:42:08.499 --> 00:42:09.746 what's his name? Oh yeah, Musk. 00:42:10.779 --> 00:42:15.459 Yeah, if we stop saying these names, perhaps then. Yeah, just every time you say it, 00:42:16.330 --> 00:42:19.699 the racist, transphobe, just ever just list off their. 00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:26.739 Before mention it, it should be part of their names oh okay their official title, 00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:28.386 in the world exactly, but, 00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:35.199 having a wealth of 1.2, being the first trillionaire that's a trillionaire on paper, 00:42:35.960 --> 00:42:39.539 they do not have that liquid assets because in order to, like there was a great 00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:43.899 example a while ago of he had to sell, I think it was 10% of his Tesla stock 00:42:43.899 --> 00:42:48.358 because of tax reasons, but that sale of 10% dropped the value of, 00:42:49.279 --> 00:42:50.419 the stock that he had. 00:42:50.419 --> 00:42:55.966 So, to use simple math as an example, if he had 100 million, 00:42:56.659 --> 00:43:02.858 he sold 10 million to pay the tax, and his resulting value of the stock after that was, 00:43:03.564 --> 00:43:08.660 81 million. Where did the other 9 million go? The value of it dropped because of... 00:43:09.240 --> 00:43:13.200 See, ladies and gentlemen, there is an intelligent person simplifying down a 00:43:13.200 --> 00:43:16.866 situation. Don't agree with him. For me. 00:43:18.062 --> 00:43:20.920 So talking economics and maths, I'm like, okay, I'm going to... 00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.397 You need to dumb this down a little bit for me. 00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:26.410 Thank you very much for doing so. And I think you've demonstrated one of our 00:43:26.410 --> 00:43:29.240 previous points. Yes, I do. Unfortunately. 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:35.850 So someone's saying they're worth X. they're not someone who says oh I'm a millionaire 00:43:35.850 --> 00:43:40.300 really or like one of the Jenner girls I'm a self-made I'm a self-made millionaire 00:43:40.300 --> 00:43:45.740 it's like no you had the Kardashian name behind it you were on Keeping With Kardashian you had, 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:52.850 some of the most social media active people pushing your brand and it was actually 00:43:52.850 --> 00:43:56.137 Webster's Dictionary that actually snapped back and going no no you're not, 00:43:56.962 --> 00:44:01.650 which was a wonderful moment of these of these stupid actually that brings us 00:44:01.650 --> 00:44:04.100 to another point in relation to, say, scientists, 00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:10.791 in TV shows, movies and in literature is that quite often like, 00:44:11.540 --> 00:44:15.371 real science is very rarely depicted I think. 00:44:15.864 --> 00:44:22.149 It depends on the thing as in hard to say hard to say if I would rely on it let me qualify, so. 00:44:23.124 --> 00:44:30.223 Quite often in, like, say, I know we might be talking about Frankenstein later, 00:44:30.223 --> 00:44:37.640 but in another episode, but, like, science is usually a collaborative effort. 00:44:38.215 --> 00:44:44.953 Sure. that's nice and slow and methodical and working true whereas in movies, 00:44:44.953 --> 00:44:50.033 TV shows and literature the science is explosive and eureka and this discovery 00:44:50.033 --> 00:44:53.128 just happened and I did it all on my own because I'm a genius, 00:44:53.691 --> 00:44:58.333 rather than I'm working in a collective group and it took us five years to get 00:44:58.333 --> 00:44:59.740 this far which isn't very far. 00:45:00.611 --> 00:45:05.373 It's just fiction versus reality. I would have to disagree in that. 00:45:05.913 --> 00:45:08.494 Yes, it can be done. When you're talking about it I think, okay, 00:45:08.836 --> 00:45:13.893 the hacker expert who does a solo, who, who's dancing around the keyboard rather 00:45:13.893 --> 00:45:18.333 than going, looking for that code to look at that comma to remove from his code. 00:45:18.333 --> 00:45:19.457 Or Tony Stark, for example. 00:45:19.671 --> 00:45:24.863 Oh, sure. But even the, I would say more like the Ironhide crap rather than 00:45:24.863 --> 00:45:28.953 Tony Stark, because he, you actually see the montage of him creating the first 00:45:28.953 --> 00:45:32.063 one or every other, every other step after that. 00:45:32.063 --> 00:45:37.369 Indeed, his practices throughout have been pretty well in their definitions. 00:45:38.275 --> 00:45:42.534 In the cave, you get a full montage of, admittedly, it's a montage, 00:45:42.534 --> 00:45:45.670 but still, he goes through the full process of building the suit. 00:45:46.240 --> 00:45:49.944 When he gets back home, he has a 3D model of the suit, and he starts throwing 00:45:49.944 --> 00:45:51.963 bits away and then rebuilds it from scratch. 00:45:52.154 --> 00:45:59.542 This is part of the design process. So it is, I think, that is a good example of an expert at work. 00:45:59.774 --> 00:46:02.704 You don't need, that's why I kind of pushed back, you don't need the group, 00:46:03.004 --> 00:46:06.827 but you can benefit from the group. if it is depending on the topic. 00:46:07.306 --> 00:46:12.824 We just mentioned Hail Mary, where, admittedly, at one point, he's like, am I on this? 00:46:12.824 --> 00:46:15.804 No, we have people around the world doing the same thing, but you're the one 00:46:15.804 --> 00:46:19.694 who's figuring it out. Yeah, you're up front. Yeah, you're the trailblazer. 00:46:19.694 --> 00:46:24.301 We're not leaving the entire fate of the human race to you. Yeah. 00:46:24.940 --> 00:46:27.441 Other people are working on it. Other people are working on it. 00:46:27.743 --> 00:46:30.611 You're the first person who made them breed. So this is great. 00:46:30.763 --> 00:46:32.394 Let us know. Please let us know how you did it.

00:46:32.899 --> 00:46:38.024 So it's, and it is. That's why that was quite realistic. But that's opposite of what you said. 00:46:39.186 --> 00:46:42.904 Well, no, because they had everyone around the world doing slow, methodical work. 00:46:43.344 --> 00:46:46.584 And then there is a breakthrough. But we didn't see that. We saw the one guy 00:46:46.584 --> 00:46:49.291 on his own with his bodyguard working out. 00:46:49.465 --> 00:46:51.968 So the exact opposite of your depiction. 00:46:52.346 --> 00:46:58.039 That you can bring people together. Like a favorite movie of mine is The Core. 00:46:58.347 --> 00:47:00.256 It's a terrible, I'm sorry, it's a B movie. 00:47:01.106 --> 00:47:05.083 It is a wonderful, crappy science fiction movie, which I adore. 00:47:05.883 --> 00:47:09.053 Everyone who wants to list all the problems with it, from the writing to the 00:47:09.053 --> 00:47:11.321 acting, I will absolutely say, yes, you are absolutely right. 00:47:11.860 --> 00:47:14.763 I still fucking love it. I actually went back and watched it again, 00:47:14.763 --> 00:47:16.247 just one of them last weekend, weekend, four. 00:47:17.043 --> 00:47:22.418 I still have a fondness for it. Don't know why, it's just in my soul somewhere. 00:47:22.952 --> 00:47:27.123 Yeah. And that was a group of people coming together. But it still had the head 00:47:27.123 --> 00:47:29.683 point. It had, Brazl invented the ship. 00:47:30.363 --> 00:47:34.933 They have all these different people who are the head points of where they can't 00:47:34.933 --> 00:47:38.357 they the experts all the other experts come in and they turn, 00:47:39.009 --> 00:47:45.063 his idea for a a a ship to travel through the earth into reality yeah and that 00:47:45.063 --> 00:47:48.893 requires money that requires resources requires other talent to come along and 00:47:48.893 --> 00:47:50.263 work together and indeed one 00:47:50.263 --> 00:47:53.370 of the lines is like yes there's a there's a thousand problems ahead of us 00:47:53.765 --> 00:47:59.503 we can work together and it is a it is a montage collaborative but it's focused those characters, 00:48:00.243 --> 00:48:03.303 as the head points, which is great. 00:48:05.923 --> 00:48:10.529 So I would push back on the idea that science is required to be a collaborative effort. 00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:17.951 But I will say that the body of science, the respect of that... Real world science. 00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:24.376 Yes, for the vast majority, but in, say, the core and in science fiction, 00:48:24.643 --> 00:48:30.356 you do stretch out into the area of kind of real world science is also well, 00:48:31.503 --> 00:48:37.923 it mightn't be the ideal fit for your science fiction extravaganza, 00:48:38.643 --> 00:48:42.863 where it becomes more science fiction rather than science fiction yeah yeah 00:48:42.863 --> 00:48:45.833 exactly and that is and the thing is you don't and that's the point where you 00:48:45.833 --> 00:48:47.597 don't where you go beyond explanations, 00:48:48.452 --> 00:48:52.577 And that's where, you know, you end up in, where you can do, 00:48:52.577 --> 00:48:55.537 as long as you're expressing it as a fiction, sure. But then, 00:48:55.537 --> 00:48:59.437 like, you kind of get into the area of pseudoscience. 00:49:00.597 --> 00:49:07.677 If you're depicting your bakery as reality, then that's a different problem altogether. 00:49:08.357 --> 00:49:12.457 Well, I suppose, like, I know we were talking about, like, time travel in a, 00:49:13.397 --> 00:49:18.127 previous hour. So surely there is science to a point in the real world. 00:49:18.127 --> 00:49:21.319 And then like your fiction will take the leap. 00:49:21.992 --> 00:49:26.147 Oh, sure. Yeah. To, to, to make impossible things possible. And that's all part 00:49:26.147 --> 00:49:28.442 of the entertainment. It's all part of the story. 00:49:28.715 --> 00:49:32.639 And indeed there, uh, no, no physicist is going to sit there and go, 00:49:33.296 --> 00:49:37.893 no, I don't know. If time travel is impossible, I'm not reading this book. No, no, they might. 00:49:38.737 --> 00:49:45.197 No, no, no, no. someone who has spent their career working on, 00:49:45.897 --> 00:49:50.680 say, neutrino research or simply on causality, 00:49:51.533 --> 00:49:54.147 they may have spent all their lives working on it thinking, yes, 00:49:54.147 --> 00:49:55.897 it is impossible to travel back in time. 00:49:55.897 --> 00:49:59.097 Future, further in time, sure. But what's been said is set. 00:50:00.037 --> 00:50:02.074 You could have someone who is an. 00:50:04.397 --> 00:50:06.397 Expert in the philosophy of science and go, no, can't happen. 00:50:08.477 --> 00:50:10.937 And they could choose their reading material based on that. Yeah, 00:50:11.277 --> 00:50:15.977 true. So there's no reason for someone to go, my expertise means I'm never going 00:50:15.977 --> 00:50:18.657 to pick up this book. And they're missing out on watching Back to the Future 00:50:18.657 --> 00:50:20.917 if that's the case. And that's sad for them. 00:50:22.197 --> 00:50:25.157 It is sad for them, but then they get to miss out on every other really fucking 00:50:25.157 --> 00:50:27.557 bad time travel movie out there. Which is good for them. 00:50:29.217 --> 00:50:30.777 So jumping into. 00:50:33.857 --> 00:50:39.097 The supernatural and the fiction part of the science and the magic that you 00:50:39.097 --> 00:50:40.585 mentioned before. Yeah. The... 00:50:41.972 --> 00:50:45.739 So to return to our original point about expressing the expertise, 00:50:46.790 --> 00:50:54.801 it is the point where it is, because it's so easy, it is the, how can I say this? 00:50:55.707 --> 00:50:57.297 When you are building your world, 00:50:57.297 --> 00:51:01.959 when you're building your magic into place, you are your own expert. 00:51:02.731 --> 00:51:08.617 Yes. so that but that means that you can apply that knowledge base to whomever 00:51:08.617 -->

00:51:13.037 you want in your fantasy or in your science fiction yeah that makes them an 00:51:13.037 --> 00:51:17.423 expert so but you can write an expert doesn't necessarily have to look. 00:51:18.932 --> 00:51:23.137 Like i was gonna say uh sorry i was an expert doesn't necessarily have to be 00:51:23.137 --> 00:51:28.324 intelligent that's not true but and like intelligence doesn't necessarily have to be expertise. 00:51:29.094 --> 00:51:32.757 No, but, so, okay, well, so, well, get back to that one second, 00:51:32.757 --> 00:51:37.207 but the, the magic aspects of it. Yeah. 00:51:37.822 --> 00:51:44.022 If we want to depict expert intelligence, then you are setting yourself up for an easy way to do so. 00:51:44.283 --> 00:51:46.498 Sure. Because you are the one who is- It'll cheat. 00:51:47.084 --> 00:51:50.507 It is, but it also means that you have to be more, it's just another reason 00:51:50.507 --> 00:51:54.857 where you have to be more, I would almost say rigid, or, you know, 00:51:54.857 --> 00:51:58.095 it's your world building. Yeah. So you're making decisions about your world. 00:51:58.478 --> 00:52:02.017 So I'm not depicting, you have to be rigid on a certain thing. 00:52:02.017 --> 00:52:04.707 Yeah. But when you do a certain thing, you have to be rigid on it. Yes. 00:52:05.067 --> 00:52:09.247 Consistency. Yes, exactly. When you decide X, Y, and Z, you can't suddenly decide 00:52:09.247 --> 00:52:11.916 it's now X. That's A, Y, C. Yeah. 00:52:12.926 --> 00:52:15.904 That you're just jumping around the letters. Yeah. 00:52:16.887 --> 00:52:25.097 So that is the easiest way to express. So to return to your point about intelligence and expertise. 00:52:25.097 --> 00:52:33.427 Yeah. How else, so, how else do you depict intelligence outside of an expertise on the thing? 00:52:33.602 --> 00:52:37.402 Yeah, so, someone mightn't be necessarily, like, like. 00:52:39.726 --> 00:52:44.281 Knowledgeable about like quantum mechanics or physics or something like that but they might, 00:52:44.774 --> 00:52:48.436 have a degree either of emotional intelligence that they're able to read patterns 00:52:48.436 --> 00:52:53.496 that they can they can they they have certain instincts that set them aside 00:52:53.496 --> 00:52:57.069 from some some other characters it mightn't be in it like what we call a traditional, 00:52:57.545 --> 00:53:03.046 you know genius level hyper intelligence in in terms of like book learning sure 00:53:03.046 --> 00:53:05.786 uh but they they could have that uh, 00:53:07.166 --> 00:53:11.226 something and that sets them aside in relation to how they interact with people 00:53:11.226 --> 00:53:16.943 or just, like I said, emotional intelligence is a good example there because. 00:53:18.466 --> 00:53:19.486 How they interact with the other 00:53:19.486 --> 00:53:25.894 characters can seem like they might be extremely empathetic or wisdom. 00:53:26.498 --> 00:53:29.255 As we learned from Dungeons and Dragons, wisdom is not intelligence. 00:53:29.685 --> 00:53:35.501 So you might... I would say wisdom is the aura around intelligence rather than... 00:53:35.705 --> 00:53:40.802 Because I recently did a debate where we're talking about the difference between knowledge and wisdom. 00:53:41.726 --> 00:53:50.226 And it helped ratify my own idea that wisdom is the shadow around knowledge. 00:53:50.226 --> 00:53:52.162 It's kind of an assessment of the knowledge that you have. 00:53:52.506 --> 00:53:57.027 No, no. I would say that wisdom can become knowledge. But it is a... 00:53:58.227 --> 00:54:05.586 Whether it is the innate or it's the suggestion of knowledge to come. 00:54:05.586 --> 00:54:10.820 You mentioned the idea of being right in the moment you didn't have the knowledge, 00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:14.576 of being right, so like I say the first caveman to light a fire, 00:54:15.636 --> 00:54:22.766 They didn't have the knowledge of that, but they had a vagary understanding. 00:54:22.766 --> 00:54:28.626 So I'd say they were wise about the world enough to make a supposition. 00:54:29.348 --> 00:54:32.686 They create fire. Wait, hey! And they then refine that process. 00:54:32.686 --> 00:54:33.857 That process is now creating fire. 00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:38.186 That's knowledge. Knowledge already existed. That process always... 00:54:40.010 --> 00:54:43.017 X plus Y equals... That process always existed. 00:54:43.557 --> 00:54:48.906 But so they just got there through a process and that process was was wisdom 00:54:48.906 --> 00:54:55.506 because wisdom in my mind and this may be an entirely different topic is a is separate from is holy, 00:54:55.966 --> 00:55:01.066 it's not separate from knowledge but it is a there is a kind of it's tied to it definitely yes, 00:55:01.846 --> 00:55:07.636 like it is tied to it is it is from knowledge you're making suppositions and 00:55:07.636 --> 00:55:13.546 that so suppositions are considered i would say our wisdom but so yeah so even 00:55:13.546 --> 00:55:16.156 if you look at it that way that the intelligence is the, 00:55:16.748 --> 00:55:21.306 acquisition of knowledge and the retention of the knowledge and the understanding 00:55:21.306 --> 00:55:29.246 of the facts of a thing as in just you know what what a machine does how it does it, 00:55:29.966 --> 00:55:35.086 the the science that's applied to it that is the intelligence that you you can, 00:55:35.861 --> 00:55:42.286 gain and access anytime you want in order to explain things but the wisdom perhaps 00:55:42.286 --> 00:55:49.266 is being able to see the purpose of the machine being able to see what uses it could go to, 00:55:50.826 --> 00:55:56.246 being able to yeah but maybe a machine is is is the wrong thing it's the difference 00:55:56.246 --> 00:56:03.052 between you know knowing which path to take and knowing why that path might be better. 00:56:04.673 --> 00:56:09.653 No, I'm saying that wrong. Okay, but scrap all this. I'm just talking nonsense.

00:56:09.653 --> 00:56:12.573 Because in your phrase, you said knowing which path is better. 00:56:13.255 --> 00:56:16.291 Yeah, that's the knowledge. Knowing being knowledge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is. 00:56:17.993 --> 00:56:23.123 To use your analogy before we kind of jump off, or go back to what you were 00:56:23.123 --> 00:56:24.895 mentioning earlier, I would say that, 00:56:25.873 --> 00:56:33.783 the knowledge is about, say, farce paths, and wisdom is which of all the knowledge 00:56:33.783 --> 00:56:36.512 we're applying to a new subject. It's judgment, then, is it? 00:56:36.976 --> 00:56:39.953 Judgment, essentially, yes. So you don't know that this is the best path, 00:56:39.953 --> 00:56:43.490 but based on all the knowledge you have beforehand, you're making the, 00:56:44.163 --> 00:56:49.203 well, not just an educated guess, but that is a wise statement because you're 00:56:49.203 --> 00:56:51.437 basing it on knowledge that has gone before. 00:56:52.486 --> 00:56:55.662 So it is and that may be wrong as a wise statement, 00:56:56.593 --> 00:56:59.313 as you mentioned before the idea of you could make a statement and think you're 00:56:59.313 --> 00:57:03.673 correct but ultimately be wrong or you could be wrong based on different things 00:57:03.673 --> 00:57:08.131 different criteria that could change but to go back to your idea of how to depict, 00:57:08.782 --> 00:57:13.772 people who are intelligent that are not experts there are seven different forms of intelligence, 00:57:14.436 --> 00:57:19.150 almost all of them involve some form of knowledge base though the only one that doesn't, 00:57:19.825 --> 00:57:26.849 is emotional intelligence so of the six other types so and indeed one and indeed in, 00:57:27.530 --> 00:57:29.093 I would say that from a writing point of view, 00:57:30.331 --> 00:57:38.013 your expression of someone going having an intuit reaction to someone or being. 00:57:39.573 --> 00:57:47.213 Empathetic you need to express that in almost science or not science but in 00:57:47.213 --> 00:57:50.693 a knowledge based way because if you just have someone going, 00:57:51.913 --> 00:57:55.750 they know me really how and then they become supernatural, 00:57:57.033 --> 00:58:00.303 and especially if you're if you're not wanting to make them supernatural how 00:58:00.303 --> 00:58:05.873 do you do so you do so by using by using psychology using you know by other 00:58:05.873 --> 00:58:11.413 knowledge sets that suddenly become your depiction by which they are expressed yeah that, 00:58:12.273 --> 00:58:16.970 if for example like a character like thorn he does have a particular kind of 00:58:17.260 --> 00:58:23.333 instinctual kind of awareness of situations at times like when he's hunting 00:58:23.333 --> 00:58:25.750 or when he's he's relying on his, 00:58:26.733 --> 00:58:33.778 like his experience and his judgment rather than what he knows is like ahead of him or he's able to. 00:58:35.153 --> 00:58:41.313 He's able

to rely on not only his his knowledge that he's gained in experience 00:58:41.510 --> 00:58:45.823 but also his wisdom of when things have gone terribly wrong in the past but 00:58:45.823 --> 00:58:47.576 that's knowledge as well. That's what I'm saying, that, 00:58:48.639 --> 00:58:53.758 Thornton, he's what, 50 years old? Yeah, close. Sorry? Or older. Oh, yeah. 00:58:54.463 --> 00:58:57.476 I thought, okay. But he's lived a long time. He's gone through several wars. 00:58:57.685 --> 00:59:02.393 He was a slave for a time. All these, he has different careers. Yeah. 00:59:02.753 --> 00:59:03.988 These are all knowledges. These 00:59:03.988 --> 00:59:06.637 are all knowledge sets, skill sets that he has adopted over the while. 00:59:06.881 --> 00:59:12.955 So when hunting, that is an application of a skill. Thus, it is knowledge. 00:59:14.263 --> 00:59:18.019 And where the wisdom comes in is he is in a different situation. 00:59:18.941 --> 00:59:24.691 Like say when when x attacks yeah they he goes okay i understand what i need to do, 00:59:25.355 --> 00:59:31.752 when i am involved in a fight whether that is in a forest or in a castle a castle 00:59:32.019 --> 00:59:35.788 i understand there is different things yeah i can rely on different aspects 00:59:35.788 --> 00:59:39.287 the ground will be slippy in this there won't be slippy there or, 00:59:39.985 --> 00:59:45.308 you know the the and indeed the idea of say the ground is slipping in a forest 00:59:45.308 --> 00:59:47.998 but halfway through a fight in the castle the, 00:59:48.718 --> 00:59:53.118 stone um floor is now slipped with blood so the knowledge of the far of the 00:59:53.118 --> 00:59:56.678 forest fight is it forward become it comes in so it's not just a, 00:59:57.498 --> 01:00:02.848 it is the wisdom is in maybe connecting things but that's the that's again that 01:00:02.848 --> 01:00:04.468 the penumbra around these two aspects, 01:00:05.496 --> 01:00:11.958 i would say that the the empathy is a different set completely as a different type of character, 01:00:13.044 --> 01:00:19.938 that they tend to be depicted differently than someone who is being depicted as a as intelligent as, 01:00:21.338 --> 01:00:25.436 while it is a form of intelligence I don't think that the empathy character 01:00:25.791 --> 01:00:29.285 is depicted as as intelligence as their primary stat. 01:00:31.277 --> 01:00:35.800 Yes, indeed. I mean, I have to go off and learn a lot more and hope to retain 01:00:35.800 --> 01:00:38.990 that intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, all that stuff to write better. 01:00:39.454 --> 01:00:43.890 And I hope, I hope this has helped individuals that want to write intelligent 01:00:43.890 --> 01:00:46.164 characters and kind of go at it themselves. 01:00:46.980 --> 01:00:49.583 But for now, we are going to call a halt. 01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:54.349 We are going to put down the, put down the, the. 01:00:55.179 --> 01:00:58.260 And just bring this to an end. Just bring it to an end. Stop rabbiting on. 01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:01.535 Come on, bring it to an end. As I said, my brain is gone. 01:01:03.860 --> 01:01:09.378 This has been Fictional Problems with Gary J. Martin and A.R. McNabbin.