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This Week in Cleantech (10/09/2026) - Is the future of commuter rail battery powered?

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WEBVTT 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.600 Hey everybody and welcome to another edition of this week in Clean Tech. 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:22.640 We're giggling at the 0001 mark, so it's a good start to the show. 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.199 We try to do the program in 15 minutes or so. 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.839 It's about the biggest stories in climbing and clean energy each week. 00:00:28.719 --> 00:00:29.199 No, we do. 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:35.280 We put a line in the sand at the beginning, and then we fail to meet it by the time we get to the end. 00:00:35.439 --> 00:00:39.679 We we limp across the finish line with a few extra minutes saddled to our backs. 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:43.920 Anyway, we're recording the show for Friday, October 9th, 2026. 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:45.600 We've got a first-time guest on the horn. 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:48.000 Benton Graham from Grist is waiting in our lobby. 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:49.200 He'll be joining us shortly. 00:00:49.359 --> 00:01:01.920 I am Factor this content director, Paul Gurky, joined once again by Cleantech commentator Mike Casey of TigerCom, and my dog Theo, who is waiting patiently next to me at my desk for me to finish this podcast so we can go on a walk. 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:03.280 It's a lovely day out here, Mike. 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:04.400 Hope it's nice where you are. 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:05.200 It is, man. 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:06.319 It really is. 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:12.879 Hey, a listener shout out to Zachas, I think that's how I pronounce his name. 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:16.079 Don't shout that out loud for in front of anybody. 00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:18.000 Zach is with Tesla Energy. 00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:22.879 He's got a good podcast summary service, which he is already summarizing our show. 00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:27.760 He describes it as follows the energy conversation is scattered across dozens of podcasts. 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:36.000 Each week, energypod.io distills him into a short briefing, what happened and why it matters for busy energy professionals. 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:40.799 But you should never be too busy to listen to us keeping under 20 minutes. 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.239 That's the point of this show. 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:44.879 So hat tip to uh Zach. 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:50.159 Uh wait, so what is the is he's telling us, is he telling people to listen to us or don't listen to us? 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.480 Because he's just gonna tell us what we talked about in two sentences. 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:54.319 Do we like Zach or is he an enemy? 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:55.680 I think he suckered me. 00:01:55.760 --> 00:02:00.560 I think he got me to to to uh promote his You read an ad that we didn't get paid for. 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.280 And we're gonna go we're gonna go from 25 listeners down to 22 because of this. 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.120 Hey, if you're listening to this and you want an ad on the show, you gotta pay us for it. 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:10.800 Don't trick us like Zach did. 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:15.360 And if you want to get your opinions on the show, we always have uh an open line for that too. 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:17.439 Uh the viewers and listeners help make the program. 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:24.240 You could just email us, whether it's a story suggestion or two cents you want to share, twic twick at tigercom with twoms.us. 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.960 All right, Mike, let's do this story for our new rival, Zach. 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:28.080 Uh, first one of the week. 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:28.879 What's on tap? 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:34.719 Gavin McGuire, Reuters, the energy transition is starting to feed itself. 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:36.000 This is a cool story. 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:37.199 Ooh, I like it. 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:37.919 Cool headline. 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.240 EV, solar batteries, uh, and the grid. 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.280 We all need a lot of stuff from the ground to make those things real. 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.080 Copper, rare earth, silver, other minerals. 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:55.520 Um, fossil fuel energy doesn't necessarily need all that stuff, but uh new mines and refineries take years to come online to support the clean energy ambitions we talk about on this show. 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.919 And one of the most promising new sources of supply is the energy transitions owned hardware. 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:05.680 We're talking about old batteries, retired solar panels, decommissioned wind turbines, aging grid equipment. 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:18.560 For example, Redwood Material says it recovers more than 95% of the lithium, nickel, cobalt, and copper from spent batteries and factory scrap, producing more than 60,000 metric tons of critical materials each year. 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:23.680 The first wave of big EV batteries is now starting to age out, and that pile is only going to grow. 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:30.159 The IEA says recycling could cover 20 to 30% of global lithium, nickel, and cobalt demand by 2050. 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:32.159 And we're catching up on solar too. 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:42.159 Despite some recent research that you may have seen that says a lot of solar recycling is a scam, uh, Dutch researchers recovered silicon at up to a 99.99% purity, so it can be done. 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.080 A team in Australia got nearly 100% silver recovery. 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:47.759 So we've seen some progress there. 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:48.960 Mike, your thoughts on this? 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:58.080 My thought is that cleantech hating is among the biggest scams on earth because these guys are always um uh huffing glue and then saying silly things. 00:03:58.159 --> 00:03:58.639 But there we go. 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:07.759 Rystat Energy, it thinks the value of recyclable materials and solar panels could jump from about 2 billion today to roughly 80 billion by 2050. 00:04:07.919 -->
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00:04:15.360 By 2035, panels installed back in 2020 could supply as much as 21% of the silver needed to build new ones. 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:20.319 So wind blades, they've been a problem because they're made of composites that are hard to break down. 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:30.560 Um this country now, uh sorry, Viola now shreds them into pellets that can put replace coal, silica, and limestone in cement kilns. 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:35.120 One seven-ton blade cuts about five tons of coal. 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:36.480 I love that. 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:38.720 And then there's what you could call grid mining. 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:46.399 Utilities are swapping out old transformers, substations, and transmission gear packed with high-quality copper, aluminum, and steel. 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:52.560 Nucore runs facilities that recover those metals and feed them into new transmission components. 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:53.680 Paul, story number two. 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:58.560 I know some folks that have done some grid mining back when I used to live in Michigan, ripping copper out of buildings and stuff. 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:00.079 The public can do grid mining too. 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:01.360 Uh we just don't encourage it. 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:02.879 Dangerous, dangerous tough. 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:04.319 Anyway, story number two. 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:12.160 Second story this week: Rachel Millard, Ian Bott, Adidi Bandari, Clara Murray, and Richard Topping, all writing for the Financial Times. 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.759 A piece titled How to Keep the Lights On in an Electrified World. 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:16.959 Tell me about it, Casey. 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:20.639 Yeah, balancing the grid used to mean dispatching new fossil fuel plants. 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:31.439 Now operators are managing hundreds of wind and solar farms plus a flood of rooftop solar that's tough to forecast with powers flowing both ways between customers and the grid at the same time. 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:35.040 Demand is climbing as people switch to EVs and heat pumps. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:47.120 Britain's grid operator thinks the country's total generating capacity might need to grow by 206% to 245% from 2024 to 2050, just to keep up. 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:54.319 And just under a third of that increase has to be storage or dispatchable power, meaning something you can turn up and down on command. 00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:58.959 So, Britain, they built a much bigger grid and a much more flexible one at that. 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:00.800 It's leaning heavily on EVs. 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:05.439 Octopus Energy is uh the country's largest household supplier. 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:11.839 So smart charging, where cars charge automatically when power is cheap and plentiful, is going mainstream fast. 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:13.439 Paul, your thoughts. 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.720 Uh, batteries are a big deal, and they're only going to get bigger. 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:20.959 They're right now the fastest growing electricity technology in the world because of their versatility. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.959 Britain's got about eight gigawatts of batteries, most of those two-hour systems. 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:30.879 Aurora Energy Research expects that to more than double in five years, and we've seen a lot of that here in the States. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:38.639 Uh, for longer stretches of time, uh, outside of that, what batteries can provide, regulators are backing SSE's Quar Glass project in Scotland. 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:41.279 It's a new hydro project, the first in a generation. 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:49.040 It would pump water uphill when power's cheap and then release it when prices rise, supplying 1.4 gigawatts for 32 hours straight. 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:57.360 Uh, regulators are looking into compressed air storage in salt caverns, uh, things like uh storing air as a chilled liquid, uh, also an option. 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.480 There are interconnectors, big undersea cables linking Britain to Europe. 00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:06.639 Net imports covered just over 9% of UK demand last year, but neighbors often have the same weather. 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:11.759 This summer the grid operator had to abruptly cut exports to the Netherlands during a windless hot night. 00:07:11.839 --> 00:07:18.319 Uh, even so, the grid operator expects Britain to uh be a next port net exporter of electricity by the year 2030. 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:19.600 Mike, get us to story three. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.319 Zeke Housefather from The Climate Brink. 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.839 He wrote, What if the world hadn't built wind and solar? 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:31.360 Um, I could summarize the story by saying we'd be effed, but that would not be good for our show. 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:33.360 I don't know what we'd be doing the show about. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.959 Yeah, it's something else, probably. 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:38.639 Uh, common argument online is renewables aren't replacing fossil fuels at all. 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:41.120 They're just sort of an and proposition. 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:44.079 If you look at only the numbers on paper, it's hard to argue with that. 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:53.519 Coal power hit a record in 2024, gas hit a record in 2025, global fossil fuel generation is about 50% higher than it was just 20-some years ago. 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.240 Zeke argues this is the wrong comparison, though. 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:03.920 Global electricity demand grew 75% over those 20 years because of industry, EVs, air conditioning, data centers, on down the line. 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:04.800 Did you catch it there? 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:06.079 I said data centers. 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.439 That demand was coming whether we built a single wind turbine or not. 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:11.759 I like to just mix it up, keep you guessing, Casey. 00:08:11.839 -->
00:08:15.360 Since 2015, wind and solar met 57% of new demand. 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:18.079 That's way less than fossil fuels did at only 29%. 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:21.040 Last year they covered 99% of it. 00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:24.240 Mike, what would you do if we didn't have wind and solar to talk about? 00:08:24.639 --> 00:08:45.120 So Zeke, in his analysis, went back to 20 uh uh 2005, and he froze wind and solar levels at that year's uh output in every country and filled the gap with that country's own fossil fuel mix, traditional fossil fuel mix, coal in places like China and India, mostly gas in places like Texas or the UK. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:51.120 Without that growth, the global power selector pollution would have been 28% higher last year. 00:08:51.279 --> 00:09:00.879 That's 3.7 billion tons of carbon pollution avoided in 2025 alone, by three-quarters of uh total US carbon pollution. 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:05.120 Over the full 20 years, it's roughly 23 billion tons. 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:11.360 So in places where demand grew s demand grew slowly, clean energy actually pushed fossil generation down. 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:16.080 The EU power pollution fell 55% since 20 uh 2005. 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.200 Without wind and solar, that would have been about 16 percent. 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.799 In the US, it would have been about 17% instead of 37. 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.679 So 60% of this avoided pollution came in just the last five years. 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:28.799 Paul, four story. 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:36.720 Story four, one of your favorite authors, Ivan Penn, over at the New York Times, titled A New Crop of Solar Panels is the U.S.'s best hope of catching China. 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:37.600 Tell me about it. 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:43.679 You know, Ivan is so much better a reporter than David Wallace Walls because Ivan chose to come on the show. 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.200 And I think that's that's qualification. 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:46.240 That's all it takes. 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:46.480 Yeah. 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:47.600 For sure, right? 00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:48.080 Okay. 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:50.000 So this is actually really cool. 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:50.399 U.S. 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:59.679 solar manufacturers say they're close to a breakthrough with tandem solar panels, which stack extra layers of material on top of each other, kind of like a layer cake. 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.720 So the panel can turn more sunlight into electricity. 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:07.039 The goal is about 25% more energy than most panels on the market today. 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:12.559 Tandem PV, first solar, and Q cells all say they're getting ready to sell them commercially soon. 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:23.360 Q cells, which we covered back in June when it started making solar cells at its Cartersville, Georgia plant, is now the first company to get a tandem panel independently certified. 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:30.799 And this matters because China, as listeners to this show well know, controls 80% of the solar panel market in the world. 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.039 Getting tandems right first could give the U.S. 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:43.600 and its allies a shot at winning back a big piece of this industry, which I'm sure the current clown show running federal policy will rush to give away to China since that's what they love to do. 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:44.240 Paul. 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:49.600 I've got to be the naysayer here and say, hold on, Mike Casey, because there are some hurdles to clear here. 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:56.399 Um, you've got to convince not only the developers, but the people uh signing the checks at the banks that these things are gonna last 20 to 30 years. 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:01.759 QCells right now is is shooting golf ball-sized chunks of ice at its panels to prove that they're they're durable. 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.600 These things are also expensive. 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:08.720 Uh, a lot of estimates put tandems at three to three and a half times the cost of a regular panel. 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:12.799 The upside, hard to deny though, that extra 24% capacity. 00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.080 Your solar farms in the U.S. 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:18.399 run at a 24% capacity factor, meaning how much power they actually produce compared to their max. 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.919 Tandems could get above 31%, according to some research. 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.120 So the same power, uh, fewer materials, same site. 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:32.559 Scott Warden at Tandem PV says his panels are degrading less than 1% per year, and tandems will dominate the industry by the mid-2030s. 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:37.039 Scott, we'll have to get you on the show to talk about that if that's the case, because of course the show will last forever. 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:38.879 That's that's the way we've set it up. 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.200 It will last longer than time. 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:43.200 It feels like this episode's headed that direction. 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:44.480 Let's bring our guest in, Mike. 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:45.120 Story five. 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:48.159 We're cruising to a very prompt ending, Paul Gherky. 00:11:48.320 --> 00:12:00.000 And I have enough time to tell you one uh listeners should turn on the YouTube channel and see Paul Gurkey trying to catch up to Brian Mendez, who he secretly uh admires for they're in the beard race, so that's good. 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.200 Yeah, it's a it was a silent uh arms race, Mike. 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:05.919 I hadn't actually talked about the beard growth to Mendez at all. 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.159 I just showed up with it to intimidate him. 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:09.200 It worked. 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:10.559 It worked as a sign of force. 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:16.879 Did are you gonna join me in being a bundler for Jeff Bezos' presidential
campaign that his wife wants him to run? 00:12:17.120 --> 00:12:18.159 What are you talking about? 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:20.159 Jeff Bezos is gonna run for president. 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:21.279 That's awesome, man. 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:22.559 But it's not what we're talking about today. 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:27.039 I just gotta guess Benton is now in the show and he's just like, what the hell is this? 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:27.440 I'm good. 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.639 I'm just wanted to tell you, I thought you and I showed up at the Bezos fundraiser. 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:31.919 I thought it was cool to bump into you there. 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:37.840 But anyway, hey, Casey saw 10 minutes into the show and he's like, I'm just gonna pontificate for the next two and put us behind the eight ball. 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:38.480 Fantastic. 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:46.879 Yeah, we uh we welcome you, Benton. 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:47.600 You've got a piece. 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:51.200 The future of commuter rail could be taking shape in Boston. 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:52.559 Tell us about the story. 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:53.759 What's the big takeaway? 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.080 Yeah, thanks for having me. 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:01.679 Um yeah, so uh rail electrifications uh it's nothing new, right? 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:09.360 It's something that we've been doing for uh 140 years, electrifying streetcars back in the late 19th century. 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:20.720 Uh, but what's new here is you know, for a long time that's meant overhead wiring, uh installing third rail, very costly uh uh um infrastructure projects. 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:41.679 Now, as you guys are talking about the importance of batteries, uh there's uh there's kind of an emerging technology around battery-powered trains, um, which is significant because you know, instead of retrofitting your rail radically, you can pop a battery-powered train onto tracks that are typically built for diesel. 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:59.039 So uh this is kind of something that uh some public transit agencies, commuter rail lines are testing out in the US, um, Caltrain in the Bay Area, Chicago, uh Metra in Chicago in 2028, and then uh the T in Boston in uh in 2030. 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.679 It sounds like there's a path here for broader adoption. 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:06.799 Benton, the the rail that you wrote about in your piece, it's that was not a quick project. 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:11.519 I think there was advocacy work for that project for something like 30 years to make that one happen. 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:19.120 And you're reporting, what do you see as like the wider scale adoption play here in the United States for technology like this? 00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:23.679 Yeah, I think we're gonna learn a lot about that over the next five or so years. 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.600 Um I I should say it's something that's not only happening in the US. 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:35.279 There are there are uh battery-powered trains in Germany, uh, in in I believe the UK is introducing some as well. 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.360 So this is you know something that that Europe might give us some insight into. 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:46.639 But as far as adoption in the US, I think it's gonna kind of depend on how things go in Boston, Chicago, the Bay Area. 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.000 Um and you know, a couple things to consider. 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.480 Uh you know, is the is the rollout of these trains super bumpy? 00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:01.600 Like, like with any, you know, with with EVs, like the charge uh range is a question, right? 00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:05.120 Boston, Chicago, these are these are harsh winter climates. 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:06.960 Um, is that a problem? 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.799 Um I think that's you know one thing to to consider. 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.039 And then there's the cost piece too. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:26.000 I mean, uh uh in reporting on the story, the T said a big reason that they pursued this technology is because uh battery powered trains were a huge cost saver compared to installing overhead wiring. 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:32.639 I mean, just for one example, Cow Train in the Bay Area installed overhead wiring from San Jose to San Francisco. 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.240 That was about$2.4 billion. 00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:47.919 So that was that that is super costly, but uh I think it's also important to note that that that Boston is spending six seven hundred and sixty-five million dollars over for a 15-year lease, they're not even purchasing these battery-power trains. 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.000 So I think it's gonna kind of depend on on can that cost come down. 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:56.480 Um, obviously, we've seen the cost of batteries falling for a long time now. 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.279 So um hopefully that that'll be the case. 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:09.759 But if if these uh trains uh you know can can save a lot of money on kind of those big infrastructure project investments that would be required to electrify. 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:20.000 Yeah, I mean it it is something that could wind up being appealing to uh regional railroads, and who knows, maybe someday, you know, beyond that, uh Amtrak and kind of inner city rail as well. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:26.720 And are how do these batteries the trains use compare to what would go in a car? 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:33.759 I know size is obviously different, but are they using different technology and are there other things that they take into account? 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:46.639 I think, you know, that's a good question, and uh I don't know like the uh the technological intricacies of how different it is, but um I do think it it there are a lot of similarities. 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:59.039 Um and you know, like the example I was giving someone the other day is like you know, you could think of it
like like a Tesla, or even like I think maybe a better example would be uh electric powered buses. 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:03.440 We've seen the rollout of those struggle in some cold weather climates. 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:11.039 I think, you know, Duluth, Minnesota, way up north, they wrote they tried to roll these buses out uh five, six years ago. 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:18.720 Didn't work well, but now we're starting to see uh cold weather climates like Madison, Wisconsin, places like that have some success. 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:30.720 So I think the the general tech battery technology is pretty comparable to what, yeah, in terms of what some of the uh challenges are, is it's pretty comparable. 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:34.799 You compare like trains and and and buses and and even EVs. 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:36.400 Oh, I think we're about out of time. 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.079 We need to get to our clean tech of the week. 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:38.799 Let's do it. 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:46.799 This week's clean tech of the week is drum roll, please, Christopher Galarza, longtime chef and co-founder of Eco Chef. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.039 They certify sustainable commercial kitchens. 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:53.200 Christopher co-authored a new peer-reviewed study, recruited most of the kitchens in it. 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:55.839 Theo, I'm reading Clean Tecker of the Week, buddy. 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:58.319 Theo says congratulations to Christopher. 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.240 He co-authored a new peer-reviewed study, as I mentioned, recruiting most of the kitchens in it. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:09.119 Found that 70% of gas-fired restaurant kitchens had nitrogen dioxide levels above EPA and WHO safety limits. 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.480 Uh, WHO, that's that's the WHO, not the ban, not to be confused. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.880 Uh, that's even with commercial ventilation. 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:20.720 Uh, Chris says working in all electric kitchens was the first time in his career he could do what he loved without feeling like he was dying. 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:23.440 Congratulations, Christopher, Clean Tecker of the Week. 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:24.160 Outstanding. 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:34.319 And Paul, I I want to acknowledge this is a personal growth moment for you that you said data centers, because I'll bet you if I ask Benton if it's data or data centers, he's a data guy. 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:35.759 Benton looks like a data guy. 00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:36.400 What do you got? 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:37.440 Data or data? 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.160 Bring it. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:40.000 Data. 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:41.359 I gotta say data. 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:43.759 I'm starting to lose big time. 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.440 Like you're keeping track, aren't you? 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:47.519 Like it's like seven to two or something now. 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.799 You and Claire Hudson on an island by yourselves. 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:51.200 Okay. 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.680 Is there is that a regional split? 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.480 No, I th I think it's just now I'm being stubborn about it. 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:57.599 Um, I like data. 00:18:57.759 --> 00:18:59.359 Data sounds more formal to me. 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:02.640 Data, data sounds like you're getting on Facebook. 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:06.319 Data sounds like you're uh researching something important. 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:07.680 Well, you know what it sounds like? 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.640 We need to thank Brian Mendez, our wonderful producer, Queer Queer, and Alex Peterson for gathering these stories. 00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.440 And if you guys have any strong opinions on data versus data centers, uh please, I need some support. 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:18.559 I'm getting killed over here. 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.279 Thanks for joining us for another round of this week in CleanTech. 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.720 Special shout out to Ben and Graham for sticking around and laughing at our corny jokes. 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.720 If you enjoyed them, please subscribe, leave a little feedback, and share a story suggestion if you like. 00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:30.640 You can read every article we talk about each week. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:35.200 There are links in the episode description, as well as where this thing lives on factorthhis.com. 00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:36.880 Until next time, be good, people. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:38.480 Under 20 minutes, baby. 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.759 We're right there.
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