Trascrizione completa di EP 78: From Zero Clients to LinkedIn Success: Sarah Clay’s Lockdown Marketing Fail

LinkedIn better and how to do it properly, because I was using it quite well. 00:04:47.370 --> 00:04:50.644 So I thought, right, that's what I'll do, I'll teach people how to use LinkedIn. 00:04:50.644 --> 00:04:53.050 And it started with entrepreneurs. 00:04:53.050 --> 00:05:02.086 I did the membership model, the six-week program, all of that, and gradually moved into working with companies and bigger and bigger companies. 00:05:02.689 --> 00:05:08.846 And then this whole thing about employee advocacy just kind of was brewing in me for ages. 00:05:08.846 --> 00:05:11.452 Didn't know it had a title or a word. 00:05:11.452 --> 00:05:21.833 I just thought we've just got to get you guys on, because this is just daft Having all of these people with personal profiles looking sad and dusty and the company page content not going anywhere. 00:05:21.833 --> 00:05:25.709 So I thought, right, guys, come on on, let's get you know you lot on. 00:05:25.709 --> 00:05:29.771 So started to train, uh, everybody in the company how to do it. 00:05:29.771 --> 00:05:34.303 Then discovered it had a name employee advocacy, and it was an actual thing. 00:05:34.303 --> 00:05:38.413 Thought, oh, I need to find out more there wouldn't? 00:05:38.413 --> 00:05:40.045 There's nothing written about it. 00:05:40.045 --> 00:05:41.088 So I thought I'll do that then. 00:05:41.088 --> 00:05:44.841 So then I wrote my book, and from there it's just snowballed. 00:05:46.221 --> 00:05:49.444 And I can see the book in the background, which we're always fans of on the podcast. 00:05:49.444 --> 00:05:57.031 When people put their books in the background, why don't you start by kind of defining what employee advocacy is, and particularly in the context of LinkedIn? 00:05:57.031 --> 00:06:01.016 I think there'll be people listening, think, half understanding what that actually means. 00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:12.853 Well, it is the most long winded daftft title really um, and it's very difficult to say, but what it is is basically it's empowering, and that's a really important word. 00:06:12.853 --> 00:06:15.228 Empowering it's not making employees do this. 00:06:15.228 --> 00:06:17.920 It's empowering to want to do it, giving them the tools. 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:27.535 But it's getting your employees on linkedin, using their personal profiles to promote what the company is doing. 00:06:27.535 --> 00:06:40.661 But it's not only and this is where the difference is between it being a good system or a system which just dies in the water it's not only about the company and, in fact, it's not about the company. 00:06:40.661 --> 00:06:47.800 It's about the employees and it's about helping them work out what they can get out of it. 00:06:47.800 --> 00:07:03.947 So using their personal profiles to talk about what they do and become their own brand and their own brand ambassador, for their own good and also, of course, for the good of the company as well and there's a lot of. 00:07:04.108 --> 00:07:15.286 I always read a lot of stats around this and I noticed, looking at your LinkedIn profile, you quoted a stat saying personal profiles get up to 561% more engagement than on a company page. 00:07:15.286 --> 00:07:18.567 That varies depending on the sources you look at. 00:07:18.567 --> 00:07:20.011 But do you want to explain that? 00:07:20.011 --> 00:07:29.894 I mean, are you saying the lion's share of engagement now on LinkedIn is from the individual rather than company pages, where reach is inevitably kind of throttled back? 00:07:30.500 --> 00:07:31.663 Absolutely A hundred percent. 00:07:31.663 --> 00:07:34.211 So that stat is from LinkedIn itself. 00:07:34.211 --> 00:07:41.509 So I kind of think it's decent, it's done its homework and, of course, it's up to five hundred and sixty one percent. 00:07:41.509 --> 00:07:42.463 So that's a. 00:07:42.463 --> 00:07:45.331 That's a maximum, but it is a huge statistic. 00:07:46.074 --> 00:07:54.723 But the way that the LinkedIn algorithms are you know the way they work company page content doesn't get an awful lot of engagement. 00:07:54.723 --> 00:08:01.283 Now, there's two possible reasons for this and we don't really know the answer, and I think it's a combination of the two. 00:08:01.283 --> 00:08:11.682 One is that what LinkedIn want is for people to talk to people, which is what we do in real life. 00:08:11.682 --> 00:08:14.069 They don't want companies going and bashing personal profiles over the head, kind of thing. 00:08:14.069 --> 00:08:29.509 So if you're on other channels, you might find that you're bombarded with company page posts, which isn't really fair, because generally company pages have budgets and marketing departments and it's kind of seems more fair, in a way, to keep them separate. 00:08:29.509 --> 00:08:41.379 The other reason, of course, that company pages don't get a great deal of reach is because linkedin want them to buy ads, which is, however cynical you are or not, there's obviously an element of that because linkedin is a business. 00:08:42.101 --> 00:08:45.171 So, whatever the reasons are, it's the truth. 00:08:45.171 --> 00:08:50.293 You can see company pages get much less engagement than personal profile content. 00:08:50.293 --> 00:08:58.062 So when I work with you know I work with lots of companies a person you know, the page goes out on the company page. 00:08:58.062 --> 00:09:04.753 The same posts will go out on somebody's personal profile maybe the next day, a couple of days later. 00:09:04.753 --> 00:09:20.554 The difference in engagement is massive, is huge, and from a personal profile you can do so much more on LinkedIn in terms of commenting on posts, which you can do from a company page now, but I still don't think it works as well. 00:09:20.554 --> 00:10:46.291 You can DM people, you can do lots of other things and really build relationships, because that's what it's about driving traffic to your personal profile, then driving traffic perhaps to

the company page or straight to the website, whichever I. 00:10:46.831 --> 00:10:48.475 I also think that it's a thing. 00:10:48.475 --> 00:10:54.083 Basically, humans are just we're, we love gossiping and we prefer news on people. 00:10:54.083 --> 00:10:56.291 People are more interesting than companies, company. 00:10:56.291 --> 00:11:02.632 Let's be honest, 90 percent of this, which is a great opportunity, 90 of the content on linkedin is shit. 00:11:02.632 --> 00:11:06.322 It's dull, it's boring and people want to follow people. 00:11:06.322 --> 00:11:07.365 And what we know if? 00:11:07.365 --> 00:11:23.768 If a company says, oh, we've been in awards, do, and here's the official pictures, it's very different to here, to here's three people that are leathered, some awards with a bottle of champagne celebrating and a few hilarious pictures of them, which sometimes do end up on LinkedIn. 00:11:23.768 --> 00:11:25.908 It depends on how corporate they want to be. 00:11:26.379 --> 00:11:32.004 I do think that people prefer following people because we like a bit of a gossip, that sort of thing. 00:11:32.004 --> 00:11:32.867 Do you think that? 00:11:32.867 --> 00:11:41.646 Um, do you think that linkedin has had, like a, I think, some sort of renaissance, because it it was around and then it was great. 00:11:41.646 --> 00:11:58.047 Uh, it was just a cv, but after it's copied all these other social networks with a news feed and live, live video, it seems to have become, since the Microsoft purchase, it seems to have become the platform for B2B, because Twitter was up there at one time. 00:11:58.047 --> 00:11:59.787 They were rivaling each other. 00:11:59.787 --> 00:12:02.007 And then obviously we know where that's gone. 00:12:02.007 --> 00:12:08.775 But LinkedIn has really sort of solidified its market in B2B marketing. 00:12:08.775 --> 00:12:13.531 So I wondered what sort of systems do you have to game the system then? 00:12:13.531 --> 00:12:13.972 How? 00:12:13.972 --> 00:12:18.811 What do you advise your clients on how they can make a big splash on the number one b2b platform? 00:12:19.012 --> 00:12:21.044 oh, how long have we got? 00:12:21.044 --> 00:12:22.287 Well, there's my book. 00:12:22.287 --> 00:12:23.871 I mean, just find my book and read that. 00:12:23.871 --> 00:12:34.048 There we are, we're done um, available on on all in all good bookstores and, obviously, amazon. 00:12:34.048 --> 00:12:44.456 The first thing I always say is stop looking at LinkedIn like it's a social media platform, because that's where people are going wrong. 00:12:44.456 --> 00:12:51.460 That's the biggest mistake that most people are making. 00:12:51.460 --> 00:12:57.085 Start reframing LinkedIn as networking, because that's what it it is. 00:12:57.085 --> 00:12:58.187 It's the biggest networking party in the world. 00:12:58.206 --> 00:13:05.751 So every situation on LinkedIn that you find yourself in and you don't know what to do, just think okay, if this was a real life situation, what would I do here? 00:13:05.751 --> 00:13:06.793 What would I say? 00:13:06.793 --> 00:13:14.049 So I was looking at your post about the uh theberg thing, that one of your clients. 00:13:14.049 --> 00:13:29.388 You created the big fatberg about the Yorkshire water and your post was great because you talked about why and how you came up with the campaign, and that's what's interesting. 00:13:29.388 --> 00:13:39.533 Yes, it's interesting the actual campaign itself, because it was a good campaign, but how you did it and what made it a good campaign is what people are really interested in. 00:13:39.533 --> 00:13:43.006 So, taking it, you know. 00:13:43.006 --> 00:13:55.925 So, if you're at a networking meeting, in that situation, we've just done this great campaign for Yorkshire Water, about this big fat bag, and that's one thing, but then talking to them about how and this big fat bag, and that's one thing, but then talking to them about how and why you made it, that's interesting. 00:13:57.429 --> 00:14:06.911 So I always say, think about if you look at a post on linkedin and you want to add a comment to somebody else's post and you don't know what to say because people get linkedin, paralysis. 00:14:06.911 --> 00:14:11.203 You know they go and they get frightened because there's a computer, there's a keyboard, in a way. 00:14:11.203 --> 00:14:22.216 If you think about that person being in a networking meeting, you're standing in a group of people and that person has spoken those words of that post. 00:14:22.216 --> 00:14:24.447 What would you say in response? 00:14:24.447 --> 00:14:28.942 Would you and I know this is a podcast so it's not visual, but would you just do this? 00:14:32.468 --> 00:14:37.295 no for the sake of those people, to our audio listeners. 00:14:37.541 --> 00:14:43.298 Sarah just put her thumb up that's the de facto emoji for middle-aged men, isn't it? 00:14:43.298 --> 00:14:50.774 I read somewhere, every, every single, um every single message it's the thumb up yeah and it, well, it is, and it is. 00:14:50.854 --> 00:14:51.502 I mean, you've got what? 00:14:51.502 --> 00:14:54.906 Have you got insight, like you, I like, I mean I have. 00:14:54.906 --> 00:15:07.109 I have found that a bit more content is funnier on linkedin recently, and I'm hoping that the more because I know we, we do social media for loads of different brands and stuff and, um, we've done training and there's it. 00:15:07.109 --> 00:15:22.296 And when, um, when the angry face came out, we used to tell when we're doing training, we were like, if you like, using Facebook for the company page, for instance, we said did you, do you realize that if you do the angry emoji, it's something that really pisses you off? 00:15:22.296 --> 00:15:27.475 Facebook then serves you more content to make you angrier, which is brilliant. 00:15:27.475 --> 00:15:28.400 Do you know what I mean? 00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:35.424 And we wonder why we live in a

divisive society exactly, yeah, exactly okay. 00:15:35.444 --> 00:15:41.422 So, um, conversations aside, um how, how much should we care about the content type? 00:15:41.422 --> 00:15:50.144 Um, you know, I know I see a lot of um to a varying degree, of success videos, lots of individuals doing very candid videos of themselves. 00:15:50.144 --> 00:15:54.592 Some, a lot of people are using linkedin articles and doing kind of longer form content. 00:15:54.592 --> 00:16:01.107 Some people are using um polls or, um, you know, carousel pdfs. 00:16:01.107 --> 00:16:09.228 You know where's it at in terms of the engagement on linkedin at the moment from an individual perspective in terms of content types great question. 00:16:09.589 --> 00:16:12.734 So, um, video is. 00:16:12.734 --> 00:16:20.633 You'll see a lot of videos at the moment because recently the algorithm has shifted and they're pushing more video. 00:16:20.633 --> 00:16:29.071 So when linkedin bring in a new feature or start putting more emphasis on a particular thing, jump on that. 00:16:29.071 --> 00:16:34.223 Jump on it, whatever it is, if you can jump on it, because LinkedIn will push it out to more people. 00:16:34.223 --> 00:16:49.552 So, for example, when they first introduced polls, everybody was doing polls and they were getting the most amazing engagement until we all got sick of them and LinkedIn switched the algorithm a different way and suddenly they weren't but make the most of those. 00:16:49.552 --> 00:16:56.003 But in terms of a sort of longer term plan, everybody's audience is obviously different. 00:16:56.003 --> 00:17:07.131 So if you're starting out, you know, really looking at starting a content strategy, mix it up, because your audience aren't all the same. 00:17:07.131 --> 00:17:13.633 So some people will want to scroll through a PDF document, some people will want to read a really long post. 00:17:13.633 --> 00:17:16.789 Some people will only have time to read a really short post. 00:17:16.789 --> 00:17:26.045 So mix up, obviously, your types, what you're talking about, but also mix up your types of posts and how you're making them. 00:17:27.006 --> 00:17:28.210 Keep an eye on your metrics. 00:17:28.210 --> 00:17:30.576 Always, always keep an eye on your metrics. 00:17:30.576 --> 00:17:39.689 And what's a little bit frustrating on LinkedIn is that we can't they don't keep our metrics on our personal profiles, so we have to record them ourselves. 00:17:39.689 --> 00:17:53.246 You can't go back to you know, a week, last Tuesday and see how, how well overall you can look at each individual post, but you can't look at your you know, know your engagement a year ago or a week ago to compare. 00:17:53.246 --> 00:18:12.786 So it's important that everybody records their own metrics and just keep an eye on your metrics, see which posts are working the most, which will take a while, take a, you know, a couple of months or so, and focus on those, but definitely, when you're starting out, mix it up and see what's working and how often should you be posting? 00:18:12.806 --> 00:18:14.288 because I, I saw um. 00:18:14.288 --> 00:18:20.509 There's a guy called rob, rob mayhew shout out to rob in his um, in his sweaters, and he's a. 00:18:20.509 --> 00:18:21.633 He's a stand-up comedian. 00:18:21.633 --> 00:18:22.414 I don't know if you've seen him. 00:18:22.414 --> 00:18:28.345 He does all the yeah, yeah, he does all the little clips like of him, um in agencies and pitching and everything. 00:18:28.345 --> 00:18:31.894 For those of you, he's that guy and um, I saw it. 00:18:31.894 --> 00:18:34.833 I saw him talking about um, his videos. 00:18:34.833 --> 00:18:36.499 Obviously, again, more funny content. 00:18:36.499 --> 00:18:37.121 That worked well. 00:18:37.462 --> 00:18:39.749 Who knew funny content would work well on linkedin? 00:18:39.749 --> 00:18:49.317 And he was saying that people, everyone said to him oh, you, you shouldn't post more than uh, three times a week and these times these are the best times to post. 00:18:49.317 --> 00:18:52.226 And he said, ah, fuck that, and just started posting. 00:18:52.226 --> 00:19:00.846 I think he posted four or five videos a day and just whacked them out and smashed them out and he said they were just going completely and they built his profile up and that's what's so. 00:19:00.846 --> 00:19:06.346 I thought it was quite interesting because some people just completely defy the, like you just said about the. 00:19:06.346 --> 00:19:07.548 The audiences are different. 00:19:07.548 --> 00:19:10.815 They defy the, the logic on, on what you hear. 00:19:10.815 --> 00:19:14.389 You hear that and I often think that if you follow too many of the rules. 00:19:14.389 --> 00:19:16.756 You end up just being vanilla, don't you? 00:19:16.756 --> 00:19:18.990 Because you're trying to tick every single bloody box. 00:19:18.990 --> 00:19:23.828 Yeah so yeah, how often do you think you should post, and what times and things? 00:19:23.828 --> 00:19:24.211 So? 00:19:24.491 --> 00:19:30.088 my the most important thing is to be consistent, and I use this word so many times. 00:19:30.088 --> 00:19:34.628 Um, and what's consistent for you, what's manageable for you? 00:19:34.628 --> 00:19:39.125 So I have clients who think, right off we go, we're out the gate, let's post every day. 00:19:39.125 --> 00:19:40.249 This is fantastic. 00:19:40.249 --> 00:19:47.030 And, oh God, we've fallen at the first hurdle, we've run out of ideas, we've run out of steam and we're not posting anything at all. 00:19:47.030 --> 00:19:50.767 Wrong, that's definitely the wrong approach. 00:19:51.268 --> 00:19:59.269 So I was with a client this morning and she was really stressing about how much she should post and I said well, how does once a week start? 00:19:59.269 --> 00:20:01.177 You know, to start, how does once a week sound? 00:20:01.177 --> 00:20:03.486 Really, is that all right? 00:20:03.486 --> 00:20:15.409 It's

like, yes, that's absolutely fine, because if you can post once a week consistently, let's say for a year, that's a lot of content, that's a lot of value going out. 00:20:15.409 --> 00:20:18.378 If you can post twice a week, then post twice a week. 00:20:18.378 --> 00:20:37.253 But what's interesting is recently I think it was HubSpot about three weeks ago has been doing some research to say that actually we should be posting less because there's now over a billion people on linkedin and people are posting more. 00:20:37.253 --> 00:20:41.488 It used to be only one percent of people on linkedin posted regularly. 00:20:41.488 --> 00:20:43.894 That number's now almost at two percent. 00:20:43.894 --> 00:20:51.874 Two percent of a billion is quite a lot, a lot of content, especially if they buy your book, especially if they buy your book, especially if they buy my book. 00:20:51.894 --> 00:20:53.635 Yes, 2% of a billion, you'll take that. 00:20:54.037 --> 00:20:55.778 Yeah, that would be good, wouldn't it? 00:20:55.778 --> 00:21:02.151 I'll have to get some more printed. 00:21:02.151 --> 00:21:03.734 So sometimes less can be more. 00:21:03.734 --> 00:21:12.469 So, rather than just putting out stuff for the sake of the numbers, put out good quality content less often. 00:21:12.469 --> 00:21:16.699 Rob Mayhew, he's a clever guy and he's got the most clever, amazing content. 00:21:16.699 --> 00:21:19.775 And we all would watch Rob Mayhew all day, every day, wouldn't we? 00:21:19.775 --> 00:21:22.914 Because he is really funny and very poignant. 00:21:22.914 --> 00:21:49.533 So the fact that he was able to post start with that much content and putting it out people were watching it because it was really funny rather than watering it down and posting nonsense just for the sake of the numbers so, um, you've got a proprietary model which I quite like, the trust model, um, which presumably you, you, you kind of walk people through when they're starting out on linkedin. 00:21:49.955 --> 00:21:55.657 Why don't you walk us through, um, the sort of the stages of that process and explain why they're important? 00:21:55.657 --> 00:22:03.036 Really, because people will be listening to this, thinking, right, I need to get on LinkedIn, but I don't know what to talk about, I don't know how often to post, I don't know what to post about. 00:22:03.036 --> 00:22:05.067 So, yeah, talk us through that model. 00:22:05.728 --> 00:22:14.121 So this is a new thing that I've recently been working on this whole trust thing, because how to do LinkedIn is? 00:22:14.121 --> 00:22:20.836 I just got a bit bored of doing it really and also, trust is so, so important. 00:22:20.836 --> 00:22:26.076 It's the key factor in any transactional relationship. 00:22:26.076 --> 00:22:29.275 Nobody well people will transact if there's no trust. 00:22:29.275 --> 00:22:36.194 But at the end of the day day, if you want people to buy from you over and over again, you have to create that trust. 00:22:36.194 --> 00:22:41.889 And it's hard to build, but it's so easy to lose, really easy to lose. 00:22:41.889 --> 00:22:44.314 So I came up with this analogy. 00:22:44.314 --> 00:22:46.478 Is it analogy with t-r-u-s-t? 00:22:46.478 --> 00:22:46.899 No, it's not. 00:22:46.899 --> 00:22:48.248 It's called an acronym, isn't it? 00:22:48.248 --> 00:22:49.269 Um? 00:22:49.912 --> 00:22:50.492 it's't it? 00:22:50.492 --> 00:22:52.738 Is it an acrostic as? 00:22:52.778 --> 00:22:54.410 well, acrostic, that's it. 00:22:54.430 --> 00:22:55.192 Or is that something else? 00:22:55.192 --> 00:22:58.152 Well an acrostic poem is when the word goes. 00:22:59.546 --> 00:23:00.690 That's good Keep that in. 00:23:00.690 --> 00:23:05.951 I like the humanism of it Is humanism a word yeah, why not? 00:23:07.786 --> 00:23:29.354 And I started doing this and I did a talk in a venue in London and I've actually done a video of it where I walk on with a paper bag over my head which isn't easy, I can tell you, it's quite difficult and talking about your profile photo and how you need to have your profile photo, and that's where the whole trust thing started to grow. 00:23:29.354 --> 00:23:39.577 So the T is tell people what you do, because if people don't know what it is that you do they, you know how can they buy from you. 00:23:39.577 --> 00:23:40.405 Just tell them. 00:23:40.405 --> 00:23:42.009 Tell them what you do is clear. 00:23:42.009 --> 00:23:46.139 So, using your profile, use really clear language. 00:23:46.139 --> 00:23:47.046 Be Ron Seal. 00:23:47.046 --> 00:23:48.508 You know this is what I do. 00:23:48.508 --> 00:23:49.449 This is who I work with. 00:23:49.449 --> 00:23:50.230 This is how I can help you conceal. 00:23:50.230 --> 00:23:50.990 You know this is what I do. 00:23:50.990 --> 00:23:51.592 This is who I work with. 00:23:51.592 --> 00:23:52.232 This is how I can help you. 00:23:52.232 --> 00:23:57.559 So that's your building your profile and part of that is your reputation. 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:06.266 Sorry, airplane overhead. 00:24:06.266 --> 00:24:06.787 Build your reputation. 00:24:06.787 --> 00:24:10.417 So, talking about what you do, talk about how you help people share some testimonials this is all your reputation building. 00:24:10.417 --> 00:24:10.697 That. 00:24:10.697 --> 00:24:12.728 Share some testimonials, this is all your reputation building. 00:24:12.728 --> 00:24:15.192 That the you is understanding your audience. 00:24:15.192 --> 00:24:19.479 So many people just post, post, post. 00:24:19.479 --> 00:24:33.710 But by going out onto LinkedIn, by talking to people, by reading other people's posts and commenting on their posts and having conversations with people, you'll understand your audience and what they want. 00:24:33.710 --> 00:24:37.598 And until you do this, how are you going to know what resonates? 00:24:37.598 --> 00:24:40.090 How are you going to know what to talk about in your posts? 00:24:41.393 --> 00:24:48.673 The

next S, or the S, rather, is we can call it social selling, but I call it shaking hands. 00:24:48.673 --> 00:24:51.598 Don't sell, shake people's hands. 00:24:51.598 --> 00:24:54.690 Back to the networking situation. 00:24:54.690 --> 00:24:56.674 You're in a networking meeting. 00:24:56.674 --> 00:24:57.898 Somebody comes over to you. 00:24:57.898 --> 00:24:58.846 What's the first thing you do? 00:24:58.846 --> 00:24:59.931 You shake hands with them. 00:24:59.931 --> 00:25:02.886 You might hug them, but there's no H in trust. 00:25:02.886 --> 00:25:10.423 Shake people's hands, tell them what you do and talk to them. 00:25:10.503 --> 00:25:22.191 If you're in a networking meeting, we've all been there when somebody pins you up in the corner and starts talking about the hundred ways that you know you can put wheels on cars or something like that, whatever it is, and it's like I don't want to know. 00:25:22.191 --> 00:25:24.794 I just want to know who you are and have a conversation with you. 00:25:24.794 --> 00:25:27.494 Stop selling to me, because that just doesn't work. 00:25:27.494 --> 00:25:39.188 And then the T at the end is to find and build your tribe. 00:25:39.208 --> 00:25:50.309 So your tribe on LinkedIn aren't necessarily people who will ever buy from you, but they'll support you, they'll comment on your post, they'll like your post, they'll help you, they'll refer other people to you and I get this a lot. 00:25:50.309 --> 00:26:14.109 Somebody will message me and go, oh, so-and-so, says that you know I need to speak to you because you're a great LinkedIn trainer, whatever, whatever and I'm thinking I hardly know this person, but they're in my tribe, they're in my sort of group of people and referring, as we know, is so, so valuable and you get a you know referral that counts for so much more than a direct connection. 00:26:14.109 --> 00:26:22.892 So that's the model of trust and if everybody just did this, did these five steps, linkedin would be a much happier place yeah. 00:26:23.112 --> 00:26:25.998 Why are your pet peeves then, when it comes to individuals on linkedin? 00:26:25.998 --> 00:26:40.798 I've got a few chris has got a few and, um, well, it's the humble brag that I don't like, you know, and and typically it's um you know isn't that what everyone does on linkedin? 00:26:41.121 --> 00:26:42.909 yeah, but it's a humble brag, I mean. 00:26:42.989 --> 00:26:50.672 I mean you don't get so much for it anymore, but people would talk about their daily routine and invariably it would start at half past three in the morning with a cold plunge. 00:26:50.672 --> 00:26:52.335 I think this is your routine, isn't it, chris? 00:26:53.197 --> 00:27:05.548 cold plunge or 4 am a round of meetings before most people's days even start, you know, and it's just this kind of completely unrealistic um, I mean, you don't get so much of that anymore. 00:27:05.548 --> 00:27:12.295 It's become a bit of a joke, but that, that, yeah, that used to irritate

me no end yeah, no, I, yes, that's. 00:27:12.475 --> 00:27:13.297 That's an annoying one. 00:27:13.297 --> 00:27:14.528 What was mine? 00:27:14.528 --> 00:27:15.352 Oh, there's so many. 00:27:15.352 --> 00:27:24.168 You know the, the sales emails, the pitch slapping when somebody says, hello, how are you, I'd love to be your friend, and then I'll buy my thing, you know, and it's like no, I don't want to buy your thing. 00:27:24.168 --> 00:27:35.871 But what I'm coming across lately is and the linkedin trainers are very guilty of this, but, as lots and lots of people is, you can do this in five seconds flat. 00:27:35.871 --> 00:27:45.453 It's really easy and whatever it is, and it's like make a, make a um, make a year's content in five minutes. 00:27:45.453 --> 00:27:49.220 It's such a promise you can't do that. 00:27:49.220 --> 00:27:54.711 It's, you know, whatever tricks you have, whatever tools you have, it takes time. 00:27:54.711 --> 00:28:00.471 It does take time and, yes, of course, there are hacks and things you can do, but it's not an overnight success. 00:28:00.471 --> 00:28:16.248 So, yeah, those people who say, yeah, we can create your content plan in five minutes and guaranteeing you um 10 000 new followers if you use our you know our system, click this, do that, follow these people and whatever, whatever. 00:28:17.110 --> 00:28:39.174 And being really formulaic about it, because it isn't formulaic, because this is people, you know, we're talking about people here, so that's that annoys me good shout that the, the I mean for me, the linkedin one, that the p for me, if I'm going to go, is um, hi, chris, I'm, I'm, I'm generate, I'm growing my network. 00:28:39.174 --> 00:28:42.000 Um, I work in it sales. 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:45.492 Are you struggling with it sales right now? 00:28:45.492 --> 00:28:46.694 Thanks for connecting to me. 00:28:46.694 --> 00:28:50.348 I'm going to sell to you instantly within the first 15 minutes of connecting. 00:28:50.348 --> 00:28:55.837 And this is an automated uh message where I bet the best one is where it says hi first name. 00:28:55.837 --> 00:28:59.374 I mean, if not correctly, that's quite a good one as well. 00:28:59.374 --> 00:29:02.806 I do like the hi first name, yeah, really really personal thanks. 00:29:02.927 --> 00:29:04.851 You know really appreciate the time you've taken. 00:29:05.072 --> 00:29:06.193 Yeah yeah, I got. 00:29:06.193 --> 00:29:21.088 I got tapped up by a recruit, a recruitment consultant, about six months ago saying and they're offering me an entry-level pr job um account executive I'll let you go I'll accept your resignation yeah, and I was just like. 00:29:21.088 --> 00:29:25.117 I mean my, my ego doesn't particularly care, but um, I was just like, have you? 00:29:25.117 --> 00:29:26.629 Have you read my profile? 00:29:26.629 --> 00:29:30.340 I own an agency, but it's just so untargeted isn't it? 00:29:30.361 --> 00:29:30.981 yeah, I've had. 00:29:30.981 --> 00:29:34.731

Would I like some LinkedIn training yeah, well there we go. 00:29:34.731 --> 00:29:36.215 That's great, I would have taken that. 00:29:36.295 --> 00:29:37.946 I would have gone to town on that. 00:29:37.946 --> 00:29:39.171 We will. 00:29:39.171 --> 00:29:41.278 Will's got this thing right in the agency. 00:29:41.278 --> 00:29:58.071 If someone sends them any like a really stupid email which you do get sometimes will's known for replying like copying everybody when it goes to the teammate alias and it'll reply with exactly like a mirror image of what they've said back to them Like oh, that sounds great. 00:29:58.071 --> 00:30:02.352 I'd love a million pounds in Nigeria If you can just send it across to this. 00:30:02.625 --> 00:30:06.766 That you know, because you do get some random things, don't you Spam that you get? 00:30:06.766 --> 00:30:08.393 I mean, there's a lot of spam on LinkedIn. 00:30:08.393 --> 00:30:17.413 Yeah, the content is the content can a bit vanilla as well. 00:30:17.413 --> 00:30:23.572 So how do you get these people to be well, interesting, because that's that's one of the hardest things. 00:30:23.572 --> 00:30:42.794 We, we, we do media training for a lot of ceos and stuff working in vr and I know you've done a bit pr as well yourself and then, and we, and sometimes we're amazed that when we get them in front of a camp, like we start doing media training, recording in comfort of the camera, grilling them, and they actually don't know what to say about anything that they're doing. 00:30:42.794 --> 00:30:44.680 Is that the terror is like? 00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:47.207 Hence why they do the training. 00:30:47.227 --> 00:30:49.094 Yeah, it's like no opinions, is it? 00:30:49.094 --> 00:30:54.693 And I mean, academics are the best because they absolutely have opinions about everything and it's great. 00:30:54.693 --> 00:30:58.607 But yeah, ceos, often ceos, no opinions about anything. 00:30:58.607 --> 00:31:09.278 I mean they're great obviously, some of them have an amazing, amazing opinions and they're brilliant, but you'd be surprised at the number that don't is it that they don't know, or is it that they're frightened to say? 00:31:09.278 --> 00:31:11.530 Well, exactly, it's probably that, isn't it? 00:31:11.591 --> 00:31:14.636 yeah, well, I think some of them they don't as well. 00:31:15.097 --> 00:31:17.302 And actually what? 00:31:17.302 --> 00:31:40.741 What do you do when you often, when we're doing, we do we we work in this space as well and you're kind of wheeled in to train a cohort, half of them will be super engaged, but the people that you really want to get engaged you know the C-suite often aren't engaged and you sort of feel they're not going to be committed to it, it's not really going to work. 00:31:40.741 --> 00:31:47.271 They're going to be enthusiastic for a few weeks and then they'll probably, you know, their day job will take over, is it? 00:31:47.271 --> 00:31:47.873 You know? 00:31:47.873 --> 00:31:55.900 Have you got any kind of techniques to make it work and make it easy for those people, or should you not even try to do it because it'll end up being inauthentic? 00:31:57.110 --> 00:31:59.036 Yeah, really good observation actually. 00:31:59.036 --> 00:32:03.610 So when I'm working in a company, I start small. 00:32:03.610 --> 00:32:19.735 So my the person I'm working with is usually the marketing, head of marketing or, you know, marketing lead in the company, and we will work together to identify the people who we think will do this and will move forward. 00:32:19.735 --> 00:32:26.150 But we start very small because when I first started doing, I thought, right, we're going to train the whole company, it'll be fantastic. 00:32:26.150 --> 00:32:28.836 And I see that, you know, because it was in lockdown. 00:32:28.836 --> 00:32:38.213 So, on zoom and I see half of the people on the screen, though all like this, doing something completely different and, yeah, you can watch their eyes, that you can see their eyes moving. 00:32:38.254 --> 00:32:45.348 So reading, reading like a word document exactly so then I I thought, well, actually this isn't working, this doesn't work. 00:32:45.348 --> 00:32:54.138 So in fact, what we need to do here is create a core group of people who will do it really well and be really engaged and show that how it can work really successfully. 00:32:54.138 --> 00:32:57.653 And then what happens is you start to get other people going. 00:32:57.653 --> 00:32:59.317 I quite like what they're doing. 00:32:59.317 --> 00:33:00.200 Can I come and play? 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:06.072 You know, a little bit of FOMO setting in. 00:33:06.072 --> 00:33:08.496 So identifying the right people at the beginning is really important and starting small. 00:33:08.517 --> 00:33:12.104 But in terms of the CEO, it has to come from the top. 00:33:12.104 --> 00:33:18.162 So you've got to get one person from that C-suite involved in the system. 00:33:18.162 --> 00:33:18.982 If you can. 00:33:18.982 --> 00:33:20.432 I've always been able to. 00:33:20.432 --> 00:33:22.701 I'm just trying to think, can, um, I've always been able to. 00:33:22.701 --> 00:33:27.884 I'm just trying to think, yes, I have always been able to get one person at least to kick off the system. 00:33:27.884 --> 00:33:40.558 And what's really nice is if you can get, if I can get the ceo to personally invite the people to be part of the employee advocacy system, that is a massive buy-in. 00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:48.322 So if they've had an email from the CEO saying I'd like you I've chosen you to come into this and do this, would you please do it? 00:33:48.322 --> 00:33:49.751 They were. 00:33:49.751 --> 00:33:55.234 You know they're much more likely to say yes and think, wow, this is, and this is an important thing that we're doing here. 00:33:55.234 --> 00:34:00.027 We've brought, you know, sarah in, so we're giving this some time, we're giving this some money. 00:34:00.027

--> 00:34:02.092 We've got an external person coming in. 00:34:02.092 --> 00:34:06.951 This is not just a fluffy thing we want you to do while you're waiting for the kettle to boil. 00:34:06.951 --> 00:34:08.375 Just comment on the linkedin post. 00:34:08.375 --> 00:34:10.259 No, this is a full structure. 00:34:10.259 --> 00:34:13.857 This is a part of the company that we're moving this forward. 00:34:13.857 --> 00:34:29.822 This is going to become a cultural shift in the company, and having this one of the c-suite on board in that process really helps that happen and what's your view to um, it almost being outsourced for those key individuals? 00:34:30.103 --> 00:34:32.576 so you know, a ceo might say look, I'm this. 00:34:32.576 --> 00:34:36.570 I recognize this is really important but I just haven't got the time to dedicate to it. 00:34:36.570 --> 00:34:41.782 I'm going to brief you into the types of things I want to say, my tone of voice, and I want to outsource that. 00:34:41.782 --> 00:34:42.864 How do you feel about that? 00:34:43.489 --> 00:34:51.371 Had you asked me that question six months ago, I would have said no, no, not doing it, absolutely not doing it. 00:34:51.371 --> 00:34:59.958 I'm not writing content for other people, but actually I now see that it is a valid thing that we can do. 00:34:59.958 --> 00:35:04.442 So, as long as we know the voice of the CEO. 00:35:04.442 --> 00:35:08.244 We understand who the CEO is, what they want, who they are. 00:35:08.244 --> 00:35:11.126 Yes, we will write content for a CEO. 00:35:11.126 --> 00:35:16.344 They will have to approve it and make sure it's right for them. 00:35:16.344 --> 00:35:16.809 But, yes, we do do that. 00:35:17.851 --> 00:35:22.750 And we use an app called Disseminate to get that onto LinkedIn. 00:35:22.750 --> 00:35:25.657 So we're not taking over personal profiles of CEOs. 00:35:25.657 --> 00:35:26.740 It will go to the platform. 00:35:26.740 --> 00:35:38.641 And we got to a point where we realized, actually, the CEOs need help and if we want them to do this, how can we help them the best way possible? 00:35:38.641 --> 00:35:43.991 So we're working with them, not for them, creating posts and helping them. 00:35:43.991 --> 00:35:49.021 So, yes, that is something that I think everybody's doing it. 00:35:49.021 --> 00:35:57.794 You know, if you look at your Richard Branson's, your Stephen Bartlett's, I don't know, I can't say hand on heart either way or the other, but I don't. 00:35:57.794 --> 00:36:09.031 You know they must have help and as long as they're happy with it and it's their voice and they're saying, and it's true to them, I think it's okay yeah, I mean, stephen bartler had a. 00:36:09.312 --> 00:36:10.996 He had a job advert, didn't he not? 00:36:10.996 --> 00:36:15.054 Uh, was it two years ago or something for social media manager to get? 00:36:15.054 --> 00:36:16.458 And his content was all overlinked. 00:36:16.458 --> 00:36:18.531 That's before he went moved

to america. 00:36:18.531 --> 00:36:23.039 So, yeah, they all, they all do it, and ghost writers with celebrities writing books. 00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:23.961 It's a thing, isn't it? 00:36:23.961 --> 00:36:26.594 As long as you get, I think, if, as long as you get the tonality right. 00:36:26.594 --> 00:36:30.789 For me it's just the tonality, the style and their opinion. 00:36:30.951 --> 00:36:34.125 What are the three sort of soapbox issues that they like to talk about? 00:36:34.125 --> 00:36:35.590 What are they passionate about? 00:36:35.590 --> 00:36:38.034 That's what you've got to like tap into, isn't it like? 00:36:38.034 --> 00:36:39.336 What are they passionate about? 00:36:39.336 --> 00:36:40.718 What gets them out of bed? 00:36:40.718 --> 00:36:43.723 Don't start putting words into their mouths that they're not. 00:36:43.723 --> 00:36:48.120 They're not, that they don't agree with, because, you know, just because it feels like the right thing to do. 00:36:48.591 --> 00:36:50.480 During lockdown, we saw loads of that, didn't we? 00:36:50.480 --> 00:36:55.015 Where brands were jumping on anything they could just to be relevant because they had nothing to talk about. 00:36:55.015 --> 00:36:58.111 Yeah, and when, when people do it, it's just, oh god. 00:36:58.111 --> 00:37:02.643 I remember, during lockdown, people started sharing pictures of their swimming pools and stuff on LinkedIn. 00:37:02.643 --> 00:37:04.275 That was a brief spell, wasn't it? 00:37:04.275 --> 00:37:13.457 It was like really like random personal posts all over and everyone thought, oh, this is the new algorithm, linkedin is going to be people on holiday, and it's no, it went straight back, didn't it? 00:37:13.457 --> 00:37:15.589 Straight back as soon as we got to 2021. 00:37:15.589 --> 00:37:26.865 So yeah, so we talk a lot about mistakes on this podcast and you, you, um, I'm sure you've made a few in your time, especially linkedin's. 00:37:26.865 --> 00:37:33.168 All about testing and making mistakes anyway, um, but you, you said that yours was about hiring and firing at the wrong times. 00:37:33.168 --> 00:37:42.085 Do you want to explain a little bit about what you've had with that it's been a constant problem for me. 00:37:44.032 --> 00:37:52.894 I think my problem is well, I know what my problem has been, because it's now all changing, because I've got help, which is what I needed. 00:37:52.894 --> 00:38:02.377 I hire people I like and I think, right, I like you, you're funny or interesting or whatever. 00:38:02.377 --> 00:38:14.676 Let's get you into the business and see what you can do here and maybe in a bigger organization that could work, where you've got space and time and money for people to move around. 00:38:14.676 --> 00:38:19.694 But I found at one point I had two fabulous employees. 00:38:19.694 --> 00:38:21.298 Oh my gosh, they were just brilliant. 00:38:21.298 --> 00:38:34.811 I loved both of them, but they were both doing exactly the same job and

I had a big hole in my business that nobody was doing because neither of them wanted to do it and neither of them were really capable. 00:38:34.811 --> 00:38:36.077 They didn't really have the skillset. 00:38:36.077 --> 00:38:38.649 So I thought, right, I've got to get rid of one of you. 00:38:38.649 --> 00:38:39.551 And that was horrible. 00:38:39.551 --> 00:38:44.139 Actually that wasn't a nice thing to have to do, but you know, we did it. 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:47.791 But I did have early days, very early days. 00:38:47.791 --> 00:38:52.021 I had this amazing assistant, and this was before lockdown. 00:38:52.021 --> 00:39:04.565 She used to come here three days a week, sit at my other desk over there, and we were great together and I let her go and I still look back and think why did I do that? 00:39:04.565 --> 00:39:08.237 Why did I let that amazing person go? 00:39:08.237 --> 00:39:10.482 She's now gone on to do some of those incredible things. 00:39:10.482 --> 00:39:29.056 So, yeah, hiring people has been my weak spot and, as I say, I now have invested a bit of money in getting somebody to help me with that and actually not just hire people who are like me, because I need people who are not like me, and I think a lot of people actually make that mistake. 00:39:29.056 --> 00:39:32.656 Oh yeah, they're great, we really like them, and they say that they're good at this thing. 00:39:32.656 --> 00:39:38.782 That person comes into the business and actually they're not great at that thing, but they're good at something else or whatever. 00:39:38.782 --> 00:39:45.201 But it's really looking at the skill set of the people rather than their personalities. 00:39:45.261 --> 00:39:48.070 So you know, hiring, hiring people is a. 00:39:48.070 --> 00:39:55.378 It's a difficult thing because I go with gut and if I'm like you, I go with my heart and if I like somebody I'll think I've learned. 00:39:55.378 --> 00:40:04.663 Like, um, if don't don't just be nice and hire everyone, so you, they have to be, they have to be, you know, smart and clever and articulate for what we do. 00:40:04.663 --> 00:40:12.837 But then sometimes you hire people and they just it's the value system that they've got, they're not bought into. 00:40:12.837 --> 00:40:14.962 How, you know, our business is. 00:40:14.962 --> 00:40:21.088 We've got a certain set of values, you know we've got, but everybody sort of agrees them, but it's not. 00:40:21.128 --> 00:40:27.010 It's a moving thing, and when you get somebody, then that doesn't sort of fit with the values of your business. 00:40:27.010 --> 00:40:27.993 God, it's awful. 00:40:27.993 --> 00:40:36.060 You can really tell everybody starts complaining because they don't do, they don't act the same way and they might be a nice person, but it's like, oh, they don't, they don't. 00:40:36.060 --> 00:40:56.549 You know, if we've got flexi time and all sorts, and people coming in late, starting, you know, and just like taking a bit extra time,

you can, you learn, though, I think, once you've made a few mistakes in hiring, don't you, as to what you should, you should go with your gut, but you also need a second opinion, I think, and that's what is difficult, it's one of the hardest things, yeah it is. 00:40:56.690 --> 00:41:00.277 It's really hard and I think it's, I think, particularly for a small business. 00:41:00.277 --> 00:41:09.081 It's hard because you know I don't have an HR department, you know if I, well, that's where I'm getting help with an external HR. 00:41:09.081 --> 00:41:23.951 And I think identifying where and this is throughout the whole of business is identifying where you need help and pulling in help at the right point where you need help. 00:41:23.951 --> 00:41:26.115 And pulling in help at the right point and the right help um is is it's hard, and it's hard sometimes. 00:41:26.115 --> 00:41:27.519 It's hard even identifying what you need. 00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:38.617 You know, you know your problem, but you're trying to work out how to plug that gap or how to plug that problem, and even trying to work that out is hard sometimes yeah, I'm gonna. 00:41:38.757 --> 00:41:41.041 I'm gonna ask a similar question but in a different way. 00:41:41.041 --> 00:41:56.730 So, um, you know that's your mistake, um, and we've sort of touched on this, but have you ever seen somebody one of your, one of your clients or somebody else that's done a horrific, ill-judged, ill-conceived linkedin post? 00:41:56.730 --> 00:42:03.021 I can think of a couple over the years I've seen, which have made me wince when I've read them and thought, my god, what are you trying to do there? 00:42:03.021 --> 00:42:07.256 Have you ever thought, have you ever seen anything when you thought they've just got that absolutely wrong? 00:42:07.476 --> 00:42:26.295 yeah, so I had a client who were a finance company working in sort of debts and loans, that kind of thing, so you know, working in money, so that obviously the trust is really high, the stakes are really high. 00:42:26.295 --> 00:42:38.129 And they had a junior member of their team who was very political and she was her whole feed when we shared screen on the training. 00:42:38.129 --> 00:42:48.806 Her whole screen was full of all political stuff, um, all middle eastern or it was just really quite aggressive stuff, and she was. 00:42:48.806 --> 00:42:54.603 She started commenting once she realized how linkedin worked, due to the training that her bosses paid for. 00:42:54.603 --> 00:43:01.619 She started commenting on these posts and I I went in. 00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:05.515 So you, you know, it's like right, I'm going to go, you know, train them on. 00:43:05.515 --> 00:43:11.977 Let's say, we had a training on the Tuesday, so on the Thursday I'll check in to see how they're doing, what's going on. 00:43:11.977 --> 00:43:13.722 Has anybody actually done anything? 00:43:14.389 --> 00:43:22.766 And she put all loads of comments, really, you know, comments on all of these posts. 00:43:22.766 --> 00:43:25.111 So I had to say you've got to stop doing this. 00:43:25.111 --> 00:43:28.359 And she said this is my personal profile, I can do what I like. 00:43:28.359 --> 00:43:31.532 Legally, technically, yes, she can. 00:43:31.532 --> 00:43:43.211 She can do what she likes, but you're not speaking the voice of the company here and I had to say you know, you've got to take those comments down because they're not helpful to anybody. 00:43:43.211 --> 00:43:51.714 And then of course her boss saw them and could he fire her for putting comments on her personal profile? 00:43:51.714 --> 00:44:05.163 Probably not, actually, and it wouldn't stand up in in court, but anyway, their whole alignment with her and the rest of the company just wasn't going away and she left um and that was fine, but it was, that was a scary moment really. 00:44:05.182 --> 00:44:07.044 Yeah, and that's interesting. 00:44:07.365 --> 00:44:09.253 That's an interesting debate, isn't it? 00:44:09.253 --> 00:44:09.553 Um? 00:44:09.553 --> 00:44:20.735 I mean not not so much that example, but you want to, um, you want people to have autonomy to post about what they want and what's authentic, but equally you want them to be in line with company policy. 00:44:20.735 --> 00:44:25.330 But you can't be so prescriptive, you don't want to be so prescriptive that they can't talk about anything. 00:44:25.330 --> 00:44:27.836 So how can companies strike that balance? 00:44:27.836 --> 00:44:33.437 You know, empowering people to authentically talk about their job, but then should they step in if they don't like what they post? 00:44:34.539 --> 00:44:47.663 yeah, there's a balance, obviously, and this is why choosing a small team who are really keen to get going and want to be on board and want to do it the right way, or the the way that the company wants to do it, if you like. 00:44:47.663 --> 00:44:55.810 Um, that's why that's important, rather than just pulling in anybody who who you think might be any any good at this. 00:44:55.810 --> 00:44:57.413 So that's important. 00:44:57.413 --> 00:45:04.524 Not having a 20 page social media LinkedIn policy is one thing. 00:45:04.524 --> 00:45:07.735 I do not do that because A who's going to read it? 00:45:07.735 --> 00:45:09.298 And B it's as you said. 00:45:09.298 --> 00:45:14.218 It's just too restrictive, it's going to make people too frightened to do anything. 00:45:14.218 --> 00:45:39.740 Basically saying to them just be a representative of the company and be proud to be a representative of the company, and by using that kind of language, you're going to get people to want to do it the right way and not, you know, just mess up. 00:45:39.740 --> 00:45:40.864 And I was going to use was going to use a rude word. 00:45:40.864 --> 00:45:43.512 Then I thought I better not, but it's. 00:45:43.512 --> 00:45:52.582 It's getting the emotional and psychological buy-in in the first place when their hearts and

minds is what you're saying um and so 00:45:52.602 --> 00:45:53.405 that they want to do it. 00:45:53.626 --> 00:45:57.035 Yeah, interesting yeah it's quite, it's quite interesting to do. 00:45:57.035 --> 00:46:01.657 Go rogue, though, like what, how you, how you stop them, because I I feel your pain there. 00:46:01.657 --> 00:46:13.121 Like because we do a lot of crisis management and if someone's done that, it can cause a real problem by taking their own political views and starting to rant and rave online. 00:46:13.121 --> 00:46:29.016 It's less like posting useful content and more ranting and raving and showing a political stance, and there's, like you say, that legally I'm not sure there's much you can do about it, other than this doesn't quite fit our policy and you have to. 00:46:29.016 --> 00:46:31.222 It's a it's an awkward position to be in that. 00:46:31.289 --> 00:46:42.302 Actually, it is awkward and actually I had one company I worked with and I was brought in by the ceo rather than the marketing manager, and I did a hybrid training. 00:46:42.302 --> 00:46:55.174 So there were some people in the room, some people on the screen and the marketing manager was on the screen and at the end he ranted and raved and said I'm not doing this, you've got no right to tell me what to do, et cetera, et cetera. 00:46:55.174 --> 00:46:57.480 So I said, well, don't do it, it's fine. 00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:04.073 You know, if you didn't want to do it, don't do it, it's fine. 00:47:04.073 --> 00:47:05.137 You know, if you didn't want to do it, don't do it. 00:47:05.137 --> 00:47:09.031 And the ceo was really worried that that marketing manager would start to post sort of aggressive, unpleasant content. 00:47:09.031 --> 00:47:14.562 He didn't, he just didn't do anything, which was the best thing he was just having a bad day. 00:47:14.669 --> 00:47:19.318 Yeah, maybe he was the other conversation we have often with um. 00:47:19.318 --> 00:47:24.797 You know, when we're having these conversations, you know people will say, well, what if they leave? 00:47:24.797 --> 00:47:27.451 You know it's a case of like, why do we want to train them up? 00:47:27.451 --> 00:47:28.252 What if they leave? 00:47:28.252 --> 00:47:28.813 And you know. 00:47:28.813 --> 00:47:31.360 But then the conversation is more about well, what? 00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:32.311 What if it works? 00:47:32.311 --> 00:47:34.019 What if it works for a year? 00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:35.987 And it's amazing, and then they leave. 00:47:35.987 --> 00:47:37.755 I mean, it's almost collateral damage, isn't it? 00:47:37.755 --> 00:47:48.137 You inevitably not everybody you train is going to stay, stay with that company forever, but actually you, you might get it right and for you know, it might work really, really well while they're there. 00:47:48.137 --> 00:47:52.451 So I suppose it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a flawed argument, isn't it? 00:47:53.855 --> 00:47:54.094 it is. 00:47:54.094 --> 00:47:56.018 I can see it, I can understand it. 00:47:56.018 --> 00:48:17.556 But what's really interesting and I didn't realize this was going to happen when I started doing this and in fact I in fact started doing employee advocacy when I worked in the pubs before I knew it was called, uh, employee advocacy again, and I started getting the bar staff to post stuff on the company's instagram and post stories and stuff. 00:48:17.556 --> 00:48:25.900 And what I noticed was happening then and it happens much more doing it now is that the bar stuff start to pull together. 00:48:25.900 --> 00:48:31.674 So and it's a bit like when now I'm doing it with linkedin and with with bigger companies. 00:48:31.674 --> 00:48:33.298 I call it the netflix effect. 00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:39.550 So it's like oh, I like your post that you put up yesterday or did you see, you know, did you see that post that rob mayhew did? 00:48:39.550 --> 00:48:44.399 That was really funny and and people start talking about it and there's a cultural shift. 00:48:44.399 --> 00:48:53.674 And I've got one client who said I just love the fact that we all meet together once a month on Zoom, because the company is in different places all over the world. 00:48:53.674 --> 00:48:57.262 So there's this cultural shift which starts to happen. 00:48:57.262 --> 00:49:05.877 And I think if you've got a great culture in your organization, if you're upskilling your team, which is what is going on here. 00:49:05.877 --> 00:49:15.522 There's more reason for them to stay and if an employee gets poached because they've updated their LinkedIn profile etc. 00:49:15.522 --> 00:49:22.122 They're going to get poached at some point And's kind of that's not my, you know it's. 00:49:22.122 --> 00:49:31.295 It's your responsibility to try and encourage your employees and nurture them so they want to stay, however big and popular they are on linkedin. 00:49:31.976 --> 00:49:49.391 So I do see the argument, but there's definitely a counter argument to it you touched on something there, actually, and this, this is my final question, really along this line um, what's the relationship between, um, a cohort of employees on linkedin and the company page? 00:49:49.391 --> 00:49:51.235 Should they be completely independent? 00:49:51.235 --> 00:49:53.580 Should they work in harmony? 00:49:53.580 --> 00:49:59.442 You know how do the two relate to each other, I suppose, because I think one can fuel the other, can't it? 00:49:59.770 --> 00:50:00.934 if I love that question. 00:50:00.934 --> 00:50:04.465 So I always do this because I use my hands a lot, as you may have noticed. 00:50:04.465 --> 00:50:07.512 It's it should be a symbiotic relationship. 00:50:07.512 --> 00:50:13.552 There you go, I'm doing it, um, between the personal profiles and the company page. 00:50:13.552 --> 00:50:35.829 So the company page should support the posts of the personal profiles as well as the other way around, and not only as far as an

algorithm is concerned, because the algorithmic effect of that is actually quite powerful, but it shows that the company is a cohesive unit, all working together, which is brilliant. 00:50:35.829 --> 00:50:52.799 And if you've got a junior, let's say, an intern puts a post out on LinkedIn and the company page then supports that post and puts a comment on, or likes it or shares it, whatever repost it onto the company page how valuable does that intern feel? 00:50:52.799 --> 00:50:54.490 It's brilliant. 00:50:54.490 --> 00:50:56.514 It's such a brilliant thing to do. 00:50:57.056 --> 00:51:22.783 And if you know if you can get the employees to even like and not even comment, but just hit like on the posts on the company page, that will encourage more engagement on those posts and so you'll get employees who won't want to do, won't want to do posts, won't want to create their own posts on their personal profile, but they're happy to support the company page posts and obviously there's a. 00:51:23.224 --> 00:51:40.117 You know, there's a kind of different levels of what people want to do, but yeah, the two should definitely support each other, for sure, yeah, and that's certainly the um, that's certainly our viewpoint, really, and you know our conversation, particularly in b2b is um, you know you have to be doing this stuff. 00:51:40.117 --> 00:51:41.460 This, you know the, the. 00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:47.971 In our view, the future of thought leadership on linkedin is with the individual and there's still a role for a company page. 00:51:47.971 --> 00:51:49.997 But really, the it's a superpower, isn't it? 00:51:49.997 --> 00:51:57.411 If you can leverage the power of your individuals and they become even if 10 of them become brand advocates, everybody's going to benefit. 00:51:57.411 --> 00:52:03.653 Um, you know um, and certainly your company page is going to benefit absolutely a hundred percent. 00:52:04.375 --> 00:52:09.384 Um, yeah, I'm completely second that, definitely everything you said. 00:52:09.603 --> 00:52:12.933 Yeah so you've you've been on the show. 00:52:12.933 --> 00:52:21.183 Now, sarah, if you were us, who is the next person you would interview for this, to tell their mistake and why? 00:52:22.464 --> 00:52:23.485 oh, my goodness me. 00:52:23.485 --> 00:52:25.072 I'll tell you. 00:52:25.072 --> 00:52:30.461 Who comes to mind is my very good friend, amanda fitzgerald pr. 00:52:30.461 --> 00:52:34.693 Oh, ah, there you go. 00:52:34.693 --> 00:52:38.058 So amanda teaches people how to do their own pr. 00:52:38.058 --> 00:52:51.314 She doesn't do it for them and I wouldn't like to bet on it, but I can imagine she's made a mistake or two in her career sorry, I'm adam. 00:52:51.335 --> 00:52:57.044 We all um how can people get, how can people get hold of you and find your book? 00:52:57.129 --> 00:52:57.530 obviously. 00:52:57.530 --> 00:53:00.498 Well, they can get hold of me on LinkedIn. 00:53:00.498 --> 00:53:02.610 I am Sarah Clay Dash Clay. 00:53:02.610 --> 00:53:09.342 I am very purple and very orange, so I'm quite easy to find my book. 00:53:09.342 --> 00:53:14.277 If you want a signed copy directly from me, you can do that. 00:53:14.277 --> 00:53:19.154 Send me a DM and I'll send one to you in the post in the old fashioned postal system. 00:53:19.154 --> 00:53:37.010 Or you can order it on Amazon, and the best way to find it on Amazon is to type in employee advocacy, because I think there are only three books published about employee advocacy and mine is the only one that specifies LinkedIn.