TRASCRIZIONE 🔗
WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:16.760
[water bubbles] [guitar strums] I'm a very sunny person. I'm a very positive person, but the last few years of my life have just been, basically just shredded the script, shredded the script that I...
2
00:00:16.880 --> 00:00:24.740
If I ever thought there was one. You know, I've always had a kooky, gypsy experience being an artist, and being an artist from such a young age, I didn't expect my life to be normal.
3
00:00:25.180 --> 00:00:38.340
But it- when I went through 2020 specifically, and s- 2022, I, I lost both my parents to cancer within two weeks of each other. So I was living with my mum, yet it's quite bizarre.
4
00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:52.140
So there are songs on this record, like the song Die Happy, [laughs] which is literally about putting the music on as, as my mum, you know, went to the other realm, and choosing the playlist for my dad's wake, who was a massive music snob, and that was quite terrifying.
5
00:00:52.160 --> 00:01:09.260
'Cause I knew that if I put a shit song on that playlist for his wake, he would not be very happy with me. [guitar strums] Hi, I'm Jason English and this is Curious Goldfish, a music podcast about more than music.
6
00:01:09.880 --> 00:01:15.700
I can't sing, I don't play an instrument or write songs, but I've always been curious about the people who can.
7
00:01:16.380 --> 00:01:24.540
The ones honest enough to put what they're feeling and dealing with into three minutes, and then hand it to a stranger. So those are the people I sit down with.
8
00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:40.900
We get underneath the music releases by digging into the doubt, the dark forests, the money, and the reason that they haven't quit. Welcome to Curious Goldfish. My guest today is Ella Hooper.
9
00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:51.280
She broke through as a teenager in the late 1990s, fronting the Australian rock band Killing Heidi, and decades later, she has a new album out called Overnight Success.
10
00:01:51.580 --> 00:02:02.820
She just made it in Nashville and released it in 2026. She's fully independent. No manager, no label, no boyfriend. Just her and a small team she hires herself.
11
00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:05.920
She's making the trip from Australia to Nashville every few months now.
12
00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:19.100
We get into why a fourth solo record feels like a debut, what happened when she split the album between two very different Nashville bands and areas of the city, and why she's done keeping quiet about the boxes that the music industry puts artists in.
13
00:02:19.500 --> 00:02:36.220
So now from Victoria, Australia, here's Ella Hooper. Let's dive in. Hey, Ella. Where in the world are you? Are you in Nashville or are you back home in Australia? I am back home in Australia.
14
00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:48.340
Well, I'm back in Australia, but let's rephrase that, because at the moment, Nashville is feeling like home. So I'm in Australia- Okay... my other home. [laughs] I teed that up perfectly for you. Yes, you did.
15
00:02:48.380 --> 00:02:57.080
That was a, that was a good... [laughs] You, you took- We, we call- You took advantage of that... we call that a handball, but you probably call it some other- Yeah... football term. [laughs] Softball.
16
00:02:57.100 --> 00:03:05.200
Yeah, that was a softball. Yeah, yeah. All right. So in Australia. So yeah, it's evening my time, morning your time, I think, on a different day. But this is a big week for you.
17
00:03:05.300 --> 00:03:14.580
You've got a new album coming out called Overnight Success, which I'd... We're obviously we're gonna talk about. Um, but first I'm like, this is the Curious Goldfish podcast.
18
00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:28.360
There's one thing I'm extremely curious about, if I could just ask you beforehand. Oh, yes, you may. Okay. Um, Masked Singer. [laughs] So I've never watched the Australian version, you- [laughs]...
19
00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:37.900
which you were on a few years ago. Mm-hmm. Uh, I've watched a few of the American versions, but I have to ask, when you're in the costume, do you actually sing, uh, when you're in the costume?
20
00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:47.080
[sighs] Abso-freaking-lutely. You... I was... It was the hardest, I think it was the hardest physical performance, performances I've ever done. And,
21
00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:55.140
uh, you know, not to throw anyone under the bus, but my hip has never been the same. I was in the biggest costume, the biggest, heaviest thing. I was...
22
00:03:55.480 --> 00:04:05.100
My character was called Baby, and it was this giant oversized baby in a bunny suit, like in a ni- you know, in a sort of, you know, one of those kiddie romper things, the onesies.
23
00:04:05.500 --> 00:04:10.440
And it was so huge, and I'm, I'm a small lady. Like, I'm a small statured person.
24
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:19.300
And not only did I have to sing, but all the weight is kind of bearing down on your diaphragm and, and you're singing songs that are totally out of your wheelhouse.
25
00:04:19.339 --> 00:04:29.500
Like I was, you know, doing all these, a song from The Sound of Music, and then there was a Backstreet Boys song. So I was just... I, I was very... It was the strangest thing I've ever done, one of the
26
00:04:30.460 --> 00:04:40.500
most surreal things I've ever done, and truly one of the hardest. But I was singing. You do sing. So it is hu- My hats are off, my head is off to anyone who can nail that kind of singing.
27
00:04:40.540 --> 00:04:50.300
[laughs] Well, some of the songs and some of the voices are so good. Yeah. I'm like, there's no way they're singing in the, in the costume. There's no way. Yeah, they are. Well, I'm- Yeah...
28
00:04:50.320 --> 00:04:59.320
you get to practice a, a lot and you get to train, you know. But, well, in my... Unless they were just punking me, unless they were like, you know, [laughs]
29
00:04:59.380 --> 00:05:07.360
maybe some people's managers and record companies are like,
Load full transcript
"Absolutely not. We'll only do it if they can use track." You know, that stuff does happen in showbiz land.
30
00:05:07.620 --> 00:05:17.300
So Muggins over here was probably just being a, being a little, you know, huh, whatever you say goes, you know. All right. Well, all right. Thanks for disclosing that. That's, that's awesome. Mm-hmm.
31
00:05:17.340 --> 00:05:28.360
So you mentioned Nashville, and you're obviously Australian. So some people commute to Nashville from New York. They commute to Nashville from Muscle Shoals. They commute to Nashville from Franklin, Tennessee.
32
00:05:28.960 --> 00:05:38.500
Uh, but Australia is... That's a big, that's a big one. So tell me about that. How often do you go back and forth? And you called it home earlier. What does that actually mean? Mm.
33
00:05:39.200 --> 00:05:50.480
It is a long fl- I don't think there can be a really a longer route to get around the w- [laughs] We are diametrically oppo- Like, there's, you can't get further away than the States and where I live in Australia.
34
00:05:50.520 --> 00:06:01.248
It's such a long journey, but it's worth it. So I've been coming, I think I've been coming, like, every, every two, three months for the last- Getting on two to three years now.
35
00:06:01.288 --> 00:06:05.508
I've been many times before that as well, but it was more infrequent, like once a year, blah, blah.
36
00:06:05.568 --> 00:06:13.668
I'm trying to sort of increase the rate of visit and, and have that sort of boots on the ground thing that everyone's always said since I was a kid.
37
00:06:13.708 --> 00:06:23.488
You know, be- been signed to American record companies several times, but they're like, "You've gotta be here. You've gotta be here." And I was never really in the position to be there for lots of different reasons.
38
00:06:23.528 --> 00:06:30.948
And then my life just changed so dramatically in the last few years, and I just got older and started doing what I wanted to do a bit more.
39
00:06:31.368 --> 00:06:42.568
And yeah, so I've been coming, I reckon, every three to, to six months for the last three years and, and I can't wait to come back. I'll be back in December, Jan. Yeah. All right. Well, that's exciting. Yeah.
40
00:06:42.628 --> 00:06:53.028
Uh, so the new album's called Overnight Success. Obviously, I think that's a little tongue in cheek. Um- [laughs] I'm not gonna talk about your age, but you, you, you said it, not me, that you're a little bit older now.
41
00:06:53.608 --> 00:07:02.667
Yes. Um, but you've been doing music for decades, so, uh, yeah, what, what's... Tell me about the overnight success notion and what, what's your point in sort of playing, you know, kind of making fun of that?
42
00:07:04.148 --> 00:07:12.228
Yeah, it's funny. Some people have been quite confused by that, which I was surprised by 'cause I thought it was quite... I mean, if you know me and if you know my career. So for Australians, it's like, "What?
43
00:07:12.608 --> 00:07:21.608
This is definitely not her first rodeo." I had a band, a teenage rock band, that sort of broke through in a really big way in the late '90s, early 2000s, so a very long time ago.
44
00:07:21.928 --> 00:07:32.328
But I was very young at the time, so I'm 43 now. So some people are like, "What is this timeline? Is she making this up?" No, I started when I was a child. That's what's, that's what's weird there, that I'm still going.
45
00:07:32.608 --> 00:07:40.868
So yeah, it's a kind of a p- it's kind of referencing the fact that we do put artists in boxes, uh, uh, um, depending on where they're at in their,
46
00:07:42.148 --> 00:07:48.388
in their cycle, whether they're brand new artists or whether they're what we call heritage artists that have been around for a long time.
47
00:07:49.028 --> 00:07:56.528
When I was young and I was coming through with Killing Heidi, my rock band, we got called kindy rock, you know, instead of indie rock. Like, "We'll see these kids.
48
00:07:56.588 --> 00:07:58.968
Uh, this must just be a gimmick 'cause they're so young."
49
00:07:59.308 --> 00:08:10.488
And now, lo and behold, I've made it all the way to a, a different kind of prejudice that I find being not a new artist and not a, not a young, young woman, where they're like, "Oh, I'm not really sure if you're gonna fit in our format or our place."
50
00:08:10.528 --> 00:08:15.308
Are you like, are you kidding me? I was too young. Now I'm too old. Like, shut up. Just listen to the music.
51
00:08:15.368 --> 00:08:29.788
So for me, that's what it means, is to kind of make fun of those pigeonholes and of those terms that we put on artists rather than their artistry, you know, uh, um, on their age or stage. And I really think that is fade.
52
00:08:29.848 --> 00:08:40.548
Another reason I sort of love Americana and always have, not just to serve my own self as I get older, but I've always been drawn to artists like Lucinda Williams, Emmylou Harris. You know, that's what I was raised on.
53
00:08:40.688 --> 00:08:41.708
That was my bread and butter.
54
00:08:42.368 --> 00:08:55.368
Um, artists, female artists that kind of peak- were peaking in their 40s, it's just Americana does that so well, and it seems to have such hold great space for that because that is when we have the best stories to tell.
55
00:08:55.608 --> 00:09:07.688
That is just when we get wild. So, you know, it's, it's a lovely thing. It's sort of working in lockstep. Like, I'm there, and that, and that, that scene is now there for me. That's great.
56
00:09:07.728 --> 00:09:18.428
The commentary about the age is interesting. Like, you're too young. Now, now you're too old. For real. Do you think that's a, do you think that's a little bit because you're also a woman? Like, uh, uh- Oh, yeah...
57
00:09:18.668 --> 00:09:25.868
I, I love, I... Is that, is that, yeah, is that the sort of the underlying- Well, yeah. Yeah. Uh-... message or underlying, you know, sort of, uh, perception?
58
00:09:26.788 --> 00:09:34.508
Yeah, and I, I don't, I don't sort of make too much of that because I do think that there are many sides to it, but I definitely think that's one of them.
59
00:09:34.548 --> 00:09:40.648
And I'm, I'm friends with enough male rock stars to know they don't, [laughs] they don't suffer these- Yeah... these things.
60
00:09:40.668 --> 00:09:50.108
Like, ooh, for, for example, my first solo record 10 years ago when I was no longer with the band and breaking out on my solo, it was much, much rockier. It's quite an edgy rock record.
61
00:09:50.128 --> 00:10:02.348
It was kind of inspired by, like, The Kills and Lykke Li and, and pretty contemporary, cool, edgy, electronic/synthy rock music. Still with a bit of a weird folky heart, 'cause that's me.
62
00:10:02.408 --> 00:10:12.828
I've got a bit of a hippie heart, and that always comes through. But, um, the, the, one of the big radio stations in Australia that shall remain nameless were like, "Well, thanks for bringing this in.
63
00:10:14.488 --> 00:10:20.968
Yeah, look, you know, um, now that you're, now that you're in this different realm of your life," you know.
64
00:10:21.048 --> 00:10:32.448
I was 30, 30 at the time, and I, and I'm, uh, look, I know it's hard for me to say because it's like it's my own music, but I feel like it was very weird that they didn't add some of this music to the...
65
00:10:32.468 --> 00:10:42.908
And if I was a dude taking that album into that, into that radio station, I really, really think it would've been a no-brainer. It w- it was kind of a no-brainer.
66
00:10:42.968 --> 00:10:50.468
I can say that with 10 years hindsight 'cause I, I never used to would've allowed myself to say that. Like, "Oh, no, I'll just be, eat my, eat my humble crumble and take what I'm given."
67
00:10:50.688 --> 00:11:01.628
But now I'm allowed to question this shit, and sorry, and I just do. You know, I just... I'm in my calling it out era, Jason. [laughs] That's good. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, what, Taylor Swift's what, 34?
68
00:11:01.708 --> 00:11:09.728
I, I, I can't wait to, for the day where she's in her mid-40s and she's winning the Americana Awards. [laughs] You know, like the... We'll see if that happens. You know, I don't know.
69
00:11:10.128 --> 00:11:20.328
You're probably, you're probably quite predicting the future right there. [laughs] Yeah. It's not your first solo album, right? No. Or is it? No, this is number four. This is not, is it? Yeah, it's four for you. Okay.
70
00:11:20.348 --> 00:11:28.308
This will be my fourth solo record. But, um, yeah, a- a- and- But it's, it's the first time in, it's the first time in sort of the genre though, right? Like, or, or not?
71
00:11:28.828 --> 00:11:37.148
I- it's kind of the second in the genre, depending on, you know, the term is, you know, we know the umbrella term Americana is quite broad and- It's big, yeah...
72
00:11:37.328 --> 00:11:49.748
but, but my previous solo record was called Small Town Temple, and I made that in 2022, 2023, and that, that did go, that was, h- humble brag, number one on the country charts here. So some people thought it was country.
73
00:11:50.168 --> 00:11:57.068
I, I kinda think it was referencing and twang and sort of more folky, quite acoustic, very storytelling.
74
00:11:57.768 --> 00:12:04.528
Uh, something happened in Australia where we just lost the genre called adult contemporary and, uh, or hot AC or whatever you guys used to call it.
75
00:12:04.908 --> 00:12:14.128
We don't have that, so we do have to do a lot of lumping in, and I kinda think I'm singer-songwriter, adult contemporary with a country flavor, very Americana influenced
76
00:12:15.212 --> 00:12:23.432
But yeah, but I kind, I got, the country charts liked it and country radio liked it, so this would technically be number two in that genre Okay. Do you think, is this
77
00:12:24.832 --> 00:12:33.112
as, again, as you get older, uh, and as you, you know, every artist sort of evolves and matures and everything i- in terms of the style. Do you think this...
78
00:12:33.292 --> 00:12:45.192
Are you looking at this as, like, a, a debut in a sense of, like, you're fine-tuning i- into, like, the swim lane, or is this the album that you've wanted to make for 30 years? Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
79
00:12:45.292 --> 00:12:54.552
I, I do feel like that's... Calling back to your question about the title, there is an element of, of me feeling like this is a debut and, and treating it like a debut.
80
00:12:54.592 --> 00:13:03.752
You know, I've, I've put a lot more into this record, a lot more consciously crafted it with a vision for how I want it to sort of hit people who don't know me.
81
00:13:03.832 --> 00:13:13.872
And I think that the term I was using with a couple of my producers was, like, [laughs] a tasting plate. Give people a tasting platter of, like, a little bit of the rock that I can, that I can do.
82
00:13:13.892 --> 00:13:24.692
You know, my, my rock persona, my folky persona, my country persona, my singer-songwriter persona, and a bit of my story, recent and further back into the past.
83
00:13:24.792 --> 00:13:32.832
So I absolutely feel like this is my first record that I've consciously made for international consumption or other markets.
84
00:13:33.052 --> 00:13:42.452
Um, and that's why I just feel so charged up about that because it just feels, I don't know, like there's something aligning. There's my hippie, my... Going on my hippie tangents again.
85
00:13:42.492 --> 00:13:54.192
But something feels like the right time has arrived for me to, uh, find a, find a wider audience, and it seems to be happening, and it just feels really good. I absolutely love Australia. I'll always,
86
00:13:55.212 --> 00:14:07.672
you know, this will always be my cultural background, but I'm so hungry to find out about other scenes and to embrace other ways of working, and Nashville is very, very different.
87
00:14:07.712 --> 00:14:13.672
You know, it's been such an education making the record there and making so many new friends there.
88
00:14:14.592 --> 00:14:28.572
And I gotta say, like, you guys just have a positivity and a complete lack of the tall poppy syndrome, which we find is very strong in Australia, maybe the UK too, where we're not meant to shine too bright and we're not meant to have several bites at the cherry and we're not...
89
00:14:28.592 --> 00:14:37.692
Which the song Overnight Success, which is also the title track, talks about. It, it's, it's a bit about, like, you know, whether I even allow myself to have a go.
90
00:14:37.752 --> 00:14:48.172
Because as Aussies, if you've had success, you just quietly sit down and go, "Thank you very much." But I'm just too passionate, and I've just got too many songs in me, and I just wanna keep going.
91
00:14:48.272 --> 00:14:55.612
So, and that's kinda controversial here, whereas when I work in the States, they're like, "Yeah, girl, you go for it." [laughs] And it's very addictive.
92
00:14:57.832 --> 00:15:09.192
So y- y- to be a true singer-songwriter here in the US, you've gotta have endured your time in the dark forest, right? Mm. Like heartbreak, grief, misery, whatever.
93
00:15:09.272 --> 00:15:21.592
Um, and, like, some examples of people I just talked to, I mean, one, one gentleman who actually is award-winning, has been making music for, you know, 25 years. He's deaf in one ear, and he can't hear.
94
00:15:22.132 --> 00:15:31.152
He's, like, hears about 50% in the other ear. And it's like- Wow... how is that even possible? Oh my God. And then I just interviewed a gentleman who was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. He's still being treated.
95
00:15:31.912 --> 00:15:44.832
Uh, he's low on energy, but he just has a new album, and so he's, he's got all that to deal with. So, um, again, not to make light of, like, the dark forest, but, like- Mm... for this album, was it born out of
96
00:15:45.752 --> 00:16:00.132
a lot of life experience? Yeah. Well, I don't wanna ruin your evening, but yes. [laughs] I've, I've had some knocks, and I've had some serious challenges. And I'm a very sunny person. I'm a very
97
00:16:01.212 --> 00:16:08.132
positive person, but the last few years of my life have just been basically just shredded the script that I... If I ever thought there was one.
98
00:16:08.172 --> 00:16:14.672
You know, I've always had a kooky, gypsy experience being an artist and being an artist from such a young age. I didn't expect my life to be normal.
99
00:16:15.112 --> 00:16:29.672
But it, when I went through 2020 specifically, and there is some song... Sorry, and s- 2022, I, I lost both my parents to cancer within two weeks of each other. So I was living with my mum, yet it's quite bizarre.
100
00:16:29.712 --> 00:16:36.452
It doesn't even make sense unless you believe in energy, cosmic stuff that's, like, ties people together or ties their life journeys together.
101
00:16:37.132 --> 00:16:47.692
But i- if you look at it on paper, it's just a freaky, freaky happenstance, and the, and the shock and the grief that, you know, when you have... I'm very, I was very close to my parents, very tight little family.
102
00:16:47.712 --> 00:16:53.252
It's just me and my brother and my mum and my dad, and they weren't together. They were separated when I was quite young.
103
00:16:53.292 --> 00:17:03.232
But a- all still very functional, all very, all very kind of connected, especially through me and my brother. So I was living with Mum, caring for her for, like, a good year and a half through her cancer journey.
104
00:17:03.252 --> 00:17:12.252
It was quite long, and she did great. She stuck around for ages. And we just had, frankly, an amazing time accepting her, her future passing.
105
00:17:12.552 --> 00:17:23.132
I was actually trained to do the voluntary assisted dying, so, um, VAD we call it here. Other, you know, street, street term, euthanasia, um, which thank God is legal here.
106
00:17:23.492 --> 00:17:35.592
So we were literally preparing the potion to help my mother pass, and she ended up passing that night anyway actually. So at the very, after we'd just been trained to do it the next day.
107
00:17:35.792 --> 00:17:43.612
She's like, "Don't worry about it, kids. I won't make you do that." And I was like, [laughs] "Thank God. Don't really... I, I know I'm s- I'm in support of it and all, but I don't wanna do it.
108
00:17:43.952 --> 00:17:56.512
I don't wanna be the one doing it. Shit." And then bizarrely, sorry, I've jumped the gun, but two weeks before that, my dad literally just kinda got sick outta nowhere back in Melbourne.
109
00:17:56.572 --> 00:18:05.532
So this is in the country town where I'm from, where I was living with my mum. I still, I still, uh, base myself in the country where I'm from. I'm not a city girl. I'm a country girl. Um,
110
00:18:06.532 --> 00:18:18.872
and he just kinda got a shock diagnosis and was gone in four weeks. So I was racing between Melbourne and the... It was truly just, like, a, a pretty terrible, shocking, insane experience.
111
00:18:19.352 --> 00:18:30.040
But trying to be strong, trying to support my brother, trying to sort of... explain it to the rest of the family that were looking on in, in complete shock because it was lockdowns in Victoria where I'm from.
112
00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:38.240
No one could see each other. This was all being done with only because we could get full-on medical certificates that other people did not have. No one was allowed to move around the state.
113
00:18:38.300 --> 00:18:41.200
No one was allowed to catch the trains, drive on the roads, go to work.
114
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:52.380
Full lockdown, and where we come from, I think it was the most stringent and the most extended lockdowns in the world, in the whole world, which actually, without being too controversial, has, has bred a whole nother host of
115
00:18:53.380 --> 00:19:03.220
mental health issues and, and relationship breakdowns, and people that haven't quite recovered from how we responded to the pandemic, you know? And I'm not, I don't have a dog in that fight.
116
00:19:03.260 --> 00:19:13.520
I'm not saying like, "Oh, duh-duh-duh-duh-duh." Like, I'm, I'm not, yeah, whatever. I'm just... That's not a criticism I, I have or, or wanna speak on because, you know, I don't want people to die.
117
00:19:13.580 --> 00:19:23.400
I'm, I'm pro-vaccine, all that stuff. But, but it was, it had its, it had severe effects on all of us as a, as a Victorian people, as a society, and as a community.
118
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:31.520
And anyone who had sick family at that time, you know, some people weren't a- weren't able to be with their loved ones when they passed. Some people weren't able to have funerals.
119
00:19:31.580 --> 00:19:42.000
We were, we were very much running that risk with both my mum and dad, but thank goodness it just, like, there was al- there was often little breaks in the lockdowns where you could be with one person at a time, blah, blah, blah, blah.
120
00:19:42.360 --> 00:19:43.220
And so that was me.
121
00:19:43.280 --> 00:20:03.340
So there are songs on this record, like the song Die Happy [laughs] which is literally about putting the music on as, as my mum, you know, went to the other realm, and choosing the playlist for my dad's wake, who was a massive music snob, and that was quite terrifying 'cause I knew that if I put a shit song on that playlist for his wake, he would not be very happy with me.
122
00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:11.920
And so music was our love language. It always has been. So as much as I say this is a fun record, it's a, it's a sample plate of all the things that Ella Hooper is.
123
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:22.440
One of those things is very autobiographical, very, very deep feeling, and I'm always sharing the real stuff. And that's the stuff that I've been going through lately. Woo-hoo, midlife, yay.
124
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:32.320
[laughs] They don't tell you that at the start. [laughs] No, I know. That's a lot. So that whole experience, you're in the country, in the bush there in Australia,
125
00:20:33.239 --> 00:20:48.740
um, h-how do you bring sort of that vulnerability, the rawness, the, um, the emotional core of you? H-How do you actually translate that in Nashville, which is the bright lights- Mm...
126
00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:57.020
you know, it's showbiz, it's, it's music city, it's, it's the, it's the A players, it's the, it's your collaborators. Like, h-how do you actually maintain that?
127
00:20:57.340 --> 00:21:06.700
Because I'm sure that's overwhelming, and you probably wanna put on a show that's natural, right? That's human, um- Mm... that's human nature. But yeah, tell me about that. That's such a great question, thank you.
128
00:21:06.760 --> 00:21:25.440
That's, that's something that's been playing on my mind, and, and one of the things that I bumped up against, to be honest,
that was tricky for me doing this album, exactly what you've just described, how to maintain, maintain my, my heart and soul while still going for this slightly shinier, slightly more knowingly polished or...
129
00:21:25.800 --> 00:21:33.880
Not, commercial's not the right word, word because I never expect my stuff to, to, you know, fly up the charts or be that commercial, to be honest. It's really something I sorta do more to please my,
130
00:21:35.100 --> 00:21:43.240
my artistic impulses. I want it to be successful, but, but it's just not the first. It's definitely not the first job on the list. First of all, it's gotta be good.
131
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:53.700
Second of all, it's gotta please me, take me somewhere new. S- And, well, up, up equal first is it really does need to feel like me and express myself. So you touched on how do I do that in Nashville.
132
00:21:54.020 --> 00:22:07.280
Well, I had two different bands, for a start. So some songs and some, some elements I took to my East Nashville band of coolses, [laughs] and some songs I took to my, to my
133
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:23.620
first call, A-list, big name band in the shiny studio, where I kind of divvied up the ones that I thought were gonna be more outgoing, outward facing, and then I had a few more that were very intimate, very serious, like Die Happy.
134
00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:30.300
And Overnight Success, actually, the song itself, I took that to the, to the, we'll call it the shiny band, and then we had the East Nashville coolsie band.
135
00:22:30.320 --> 00:22:39.640
And so, but that took me a while to realize that that's what I wanted to do. I c- I did come home a bit freaked out from some sessions where I thought, "This, I th- I thought this was a good idea. It's too shiny.
136
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.940
It's not me. It's not got that, that weight and that heart and that intimacy."
137
00:22:44.380 --> 00:22:53.980
So I literally had to go and re-record some things, which obviously took me twice as long, cost me twice as much, but I'm so bloody glad I did. It, it really, I was about to lose my cool there.
138
00:22:54.320 --> 00:23:04.000
Middle of last year I was having a bit of a breakdown. I was like, "What have I done? I don't know if I can afford to fix this." I'm an independent musician. Everything you see is just me. It's just me.
139
00:23:04.220 --> 00:23:16.500
There's no manager. There's no record company. I hire a publicist. I hire a distributor. But it's just me, really, my creation. Without much, you know, support, I've got my little team, but I employ them, you know.
140
00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:23.420
So, um, yeah, it was, I was a bit lost in the woods there for a while because of that exact not knowing how to resolve that.
141
00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:34.480
I could have just taken it as it was and been like, "I guess I've got this Nashville record then," but it wouldn't have been my Nashville record or the Ella Hooper flavor that's really important for me to communicate because that's all I've got.
142
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:47.900
All I've got is my flavor. [laughs] Oh, that's enough, right? Uh, so give me an example of a moment or a lyric or a, a playback where it was just like, "This is not, this is not right." Like- Mm...
143
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:55.440
what does that actually feel like? Well, I, I mean, it's tricky because I always blame myself, you know.
144
00:23:55.520 --> 00:24:08.060
So I'm in the booth, I'm in the vocal booth singing whilst the players are playing, and it's not their fault that I can't give the best or the most accurate direction whilst I'm always trying to sing the best I've ever sung because there are legends in the room.
145
00:24:08.260 --> 00:24:13.580
So my ego is like, "Sing, sing, sing," like I'm trying to be the best singer I could possibly be.
146
00:24:13.720 --> 00:24:20.980
But I should have probably had my producer hat on because I'm also a producer producing this record and wanting to get the right approach and the right...
147
00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:32.740
But I, but having said that, I do remember shouting out from the vocal booth going like, [laughs] this is gonna sound funny. It was, I think it was the track- Bad word, which is now sounds very bluegrassy.
148
00:24:32.860 --> 00:24:44.340
Now it sounds very light and very sort of quite bouncy and tinkly. But it, at the time when we were first laying it down with, with, with the heavy hitters, with the legends, it was just too rock, a bit too aggressive.
149
00:24:44.380 --> 00:24:50.740
And I remember yelling out like, "Guys, guys, that's, that's too masculine. That's too masculine." Like, "Bring it back, bring it back."
150
00:24:50.820 --> 00:25:00.080
I want it to be more like, yeah, light, light and flirty and bouncy and silly, tongue in cheek. 'Cause that song's very tongue in cheek. It's, it's all about... It's a real sassy song.
151
00:25:00.100 --> 00:25:12.480
But it was just driving a bit too hard, and I yelled, yelled out, "It's too masculine, it's too rock. Pull it back." Ask, is Steve Poltz in the East Nashville studio- Yes [laughs]... or is he in the other?
152
00:25:13.300 --> 00:25:18.860
He's in the East Nashville studio. [laughs] Okay. Do you really need to ask? [laughs] Well, no, I was like, okay- No, he does work-...
153
00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:26.980
I can probably see this, I can kinda see this b- going both ways, but that's what I figured, yeah. [laughs] No, you're, you're right, he does work between both worlds. Like, as do I. Mm-hmm.
154
00:25:27.020 --> 00:25:40.900
You know, we, s- some of us do have, you know, the ability to hang with the polished, w- well, not the ability to, sorry, the privilege to be a little bit connected to both worlds. Um, but yeah, yeah.
155
00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:52.280
And that, look, I hope I'm not, I hope I'm not indicating that one was better than the other, because I think the blend is what's made this record, and, and they
both have their challenges, you know?
156
00:25:52.320 --> 00:26:00.600
And they both have their pros, absolutely. So yeah, I just feel so excited because I think I've actually stumbled on something here that I've always needed.
157
00:26:01.080 --> 00:26:14.840
I, I often feel like I, I fall down into the cracks between a commercial artist and an alternative artist, and there's just like not this middle ground where I'm like, I'm not, you know, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, look, like, so weird and like I want people to connect with the music.
158
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:26.520
I'm not obtuse. I love connecting. But I like stuff that's got rough edges, and I like stuff that is not, I haven't heard the line 1,000 times. Like, I don't want it to be cliche. That's just not interesting to me.
159
00:26:26.600 --> 00:26:37.600
So I think I've done it. Yay. [laughs] Do you, uh, do you anticipate doing some shows in the, in the States at some point in the near future? Absolutely, absolutely.
160
00:26:37.639 --> 00:26:48.420
I was working on my visa yesterday, so coming in hot, coming in hot US. I'm gonna be touring, I'm gonna be playing. I'm gonna grab a couple of friends and hopefully, hopefully I'll be doing some shows and festivals by
161
00:26:49.360 --> 00:26:59.140
first third of next year. First, can, ha, I say that's a tongue twister. The first third of next year, if not halfway. I'll be trying to get into some of your festivals and your venues.
162
00:26:59.660 --> 00:27:08.940
Um, it's a big, it's a big crazy process getting the right visa from here. So, so far in my career, I've not been allowed to play, uh, any shows.
163
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:17.660
Which is kind of crazy to think I've, I've made it this far, and I'm getting radio play, and I'm making records, and I'm doing kinda, you know, breaking into the market without having played one show.
164
00:27:17.740 --> 00:27:31.600
So you wait till I start playing shows. That's what I'm actually the best at in my, in my own wheelhouse. And so I gotta ask, I, I have no idea what your relationship status is, but are you like the Nashville men?
165
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:40.880
Is that a thing for you? Or are you gonna- [laughs]... stick to the Australian guys? Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. The whole subtext here is find an American husband, so you get it out there for me, Jason.
166
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:51.680
[laughs] I've got some friends, I've got some friends. Yeah. Well, great. Let's, let's talk. Um, [laughs] no, I, I'm quite single. I, you know, in the maelstrom of losing my parents and,
167
00:27:52.600 --> 00:28:04.720
and reconfiguring my whole life and sorta having a little bit of a burn it all down moment, I, I came out of a long-term relationship as well. Um, quite a long-term relationship. So watch out, I'm a serial monogamist.
168
00:28:04.760 --> 00:28:15.600
I'm not very good at dating. If I like you, you're, you're in it for nine years. So, uh, that kinda thing. [laughs] I don't know if that's a good pitch or not, but, uh, that's good- No, probably not.
169
00:28:15.660 --> 00:28:21.660
See, this, I suck, I suck at this. [laughs] Trust me. It's always the outgoing people that are really bad at dating.
170
00:28:21.740 --> 00:28:32.340
[laughs] Well, I will say, I've been to Australia a few times for my day job, my, my corporate job, and I love Australia. It's one of my favorite places. I've been to Sydney, I've been to Melbourne, all the things. Yeah.
171
00:28:32.360 --> 00:28:43.180
But I am completely intimidated by the men down in Australia. Really? Their legs, most of the legs are like tree trunks. [laughs] And they're all like- That's true...
172
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:50.260
I feel like they're all like 6'3"- They're good to go... you know, with tree trunk legs. Yeah. And I'm just like, I, you know, I just, I'm looking, looking straight ahead. And then- Well-...
173
00:28:51.020 --> 00:28:59.380
I was, I was married for a long time. I was single for a few years, and I was down there single, and I remember, I'm like, okay. I was like, yeah, I'm go- I'm gonna go down to Australia to find, you know, find somebody.
174
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:09.520
Did you kill it? Well, no. It was weird because, like, no one looked at me. And, and I- Oh... and it's not about me not being attractive or being attractive or whatever- [laughs]... but, like, there was no eye contact.
175
00:29:09.560 --> 00:29:14.320
So it was like I'm walking down the street- Exactly, exactly... and, and there's a group of...
176
00:29:14.620 --> 00:29:23.100
I remember one time there was a group of women at the, a restaurant or bar, and I, I approached just to, like, do a schtick 'cause I'm like an American or whatever. Mm-hmm.
177
00:29:23.180 --> 00:29:32.540
And they, they were like, "What's this guy doing?" Like, you know? And I, I guess no one approaches people down there. I don't know. Nope. Nope. Oh my God, you've just described- [laughs]... the whole problem.
178
00:29:32.840 --> 00:29:44.940
We've, we've lost it. We've lost the ability to meet and flirt and, and again, as an outgoing person, I feel so at home in the States because I'm not afraid to talk to people. Oh my God, it's, it's bad. It's really bad.
179
00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:53.420
Like, and I think also the apps have really destroyed... They're like, "Why is this guy coming up to talk to me?" It's like, "Because he might wanna make a human connection. What is wrong with that?"
180
00:29:53.600 --> 00:30:01.920
Obviously, you gotta do it right, you gotta be right, you gotta be respectful, and you gotta bugger off if they don't want you to talk to them, absolutely. But it's horrible that we no longer take a chance.
181
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:11.300
It's, I mean, I miss the days of, like, writing a little note and leaving it at a cafe and be like, "Hey, I think you're a really cute barista. Here's my number" kind of thing. Like, where's the romance?
182
00:30:11.380 -->
00:30:19.260
Anyway, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry on behalf of all Australian ladies. No, it's, I mean, it's fine. We- But it, yeah. And honestly, the dudes are even worse.
183
00:30:19.300 --> 00:30:27.060
Like, if you, if you try and date an Australian dude, where it's, like, so shy that it's painful and, and it's also, I don't know. I just think
184
00:30:28.760 --> 00:30:39.600
we're gonna have to send them all to, to boot camp, to dating boot camp run by Americans, please[laughs] All right, that's a good idea. All right. Yeah. Um- I think we just made a million dollar idea. We gotta meet...
185
00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:50.280
Jason, let's go into business. [laughs] Let's go. Yeah, we can, we can f- you know, we, we've, we've got each perspective covered, so that's good. We do. This is gonna, this is a good pitch. [laughs] All right.
186
00:30:50.440 --> 00:31:00.620
Really appreciate your time. I ask this que- of, of every guest. Again, this, this podcast is inspired by Ted Lasso. I don't know if you guys watch Ted Lasso in Australia, but- I was watching it last night All right...
187
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:12.360
the new season. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. So. It, it, it's great. Just the notion of the importance of a lot of things, positivity, leadership, teamwork, empathy, you know, all the things, but primarily curiosity.
188
00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:22.440
I guess at this stage in your, in your life as an artist, but also as a woman, uh, what are you most curious about? Wow. This is so weird.
189
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:31.160
I literally was tearing up watching Ted Lasso last night, thinking it's one of my favorite shows, and then I remembered that that is your, your impetus, you know, for this show, which is just kooky. See? There you go.
190
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:43.520
That, that's all the kind of stuff that's happening all the time for me. So what am I most curious about? I think I've been looking for... This is a, this is gonna s- this is big.
191
00:31:43.620 --> 00:31:54.380
[laughs] This is big life stuff, you know? I've got a little bit of a, a search for meaning. Um, I guess some people would call it a God-shaped hole. [laughs] That sounds... Don't take that the wrong way.
192
00:31:54.700 --> 00:32:00.040
But when you've been through what I've been through and you're sorta like, "Shit, I've lost a lot. I've lost a lot."
193
00:32:00.100 --> 00:32:08.440
My, my, my, my emotional and spiritual life touchstones, you know, my family, has retracted to such a different shape and such a different size. So
194
00:32:09.400 --> 00:32:24.480
I'm wondering about the things that are going to sustain me spiritually or emotionally, like community, creativity, camaraderie. That's what I'm meditating on, community, creativity, camaraderie.
195
00:32:24.880 --> 00:32:34.740
And the more I sort of sit with that and focus on that, it's coming in, it's coming in, and Nashville is a part of that. Well said. That was, that was amazing.
196
00:32:34.860 --> 00:32:42.200
Um, I mean, I think, and the cool thing about music is music can be the thread a- across all that stuff, right? That's literally why I do music.
197
00:32:42.440 --> 00:32:54.380
I do music because it, because it touches on so many things that I like, from bloody obviously self-expression, being a big personality, I can channel it. I love singing. It feels good. But also, yeah, you create bands.
198
00:32:54.480 --> 00:33:04.040
You create communities. You do styling. You do set design. You do graphic design. You get to play with color. You get to play with sound. Music is just such an incredible job and medium.
199
00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:16.660
I don't know why anyone would do anything else. Well, Ella Hooper, congrats on, uh, overnight success, even though you're not an overnight success. [laughs] We didn't, we didn't get into all your, your crazy history.
200
00:33:16.760 --> 00:33:20.020
Uh, I mean, you mentioned Killing Heidi- They can Google it... as your, as your band They can Google it.
201
00:33:20.100 --> 00:33:30.060
But all the awards and the songwriting awards and, I mean, we talked about Masked Singer, which is probably your peak, uh, looking back. [laughs] Oh, yes. My artistic peak as Baby in the Masked Singer.
202
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:35.020
I did, I can't believe, I think I made it to fourth, just outside the top three, so. No, that's good.
203
00:33:35.220 --> 00:33:42.320
Uh- As much as that was- But anyway, you, you've got this amazing career, so the, the notion that you're an overnight success is crazy. Uh, but, but good luck on everything.
204
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:52.960
Uh, and we hope to see you here in the States playing some shows. Well, I will be there, and I expect you to be there. You gotta come and bring those friends of yours. Wink, wink. Nudge, nudge. Yeah.
205
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:58.540
They're big music fans- [laughs]... so that's not a problem. [laughs] Love it. Thanks. All right. So thanks, Ella. I really appreciate your time. Thanks, mate. Bye.