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Heather Ebanks: What's something in the creative industry that frustrates you? every time you see it.
Katie: I think it's, and this is coming from agency life, it's seeing how competitive people are. Like I'm so not the type to poo poo someone's success. Like I just think
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: that is great. That is amazing work. And quite often I just wish I had done it.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: It's never they've got the work or I should have had that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: never about that but I feel like when you're in agencies or you've worked in companies I feel like people are so equipped to be like well why didn't we get it and I just think this is where the industry is partly going wrong we're all chasing the same work and it's such a relief when we get that work why can't we just lift those people up rather than I should have had it and
Heather Ebanks: Yeah,
Katie: we're better equipped and all of these things like actually
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: you don't know what that project does
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: to someone. Like for a freelancer, I always think it's so exciting when a freelancer gets a big project, because
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I think for so long we've gone to agencies, but that project would make a lot of difference to that freelancer and it may not even touch the sides in the agency. yeah, that's what irks me.
Heather Ebanks: Cool. What is something people do that looks creative but actually isn't?
Katie: that's a good question. I've never actually thought about this. I think for me, it's the trends online.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: A big one for me is when you may have seen the trend where it's like, we're sorry that we're this type of business. And then they go into all of the reasons why they're a great business. And
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I don't think that's a good thing. Brands buy in, people buy into brands because they trust them. So for
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: us, for someone to come out and be like, this is my apology statement,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: just think, for me, when I'm scrolling and like, my God, what have they done? Like I
Heather Ebanks: You
Katie: want to know the gossip for a start. And
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: then I'm like, I've stopped and I've scrolled, but I've been misled.
Heather Ebanks: Right, yeah.
Katie: And it's that attention pull and I just think I'm done with this now. So quite often I'll scroll past them for a couple of weeks because I'm not, I feel like that trust has been broken.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: It may just be that I'm a very trusting and gullible person, which would be right. But equally, I just think why are we playing with people's feelings
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: in that sense? It's a very sensitive world at the minute and rightly so
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: there's a lot of shit going on so why
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: are we saying to people we've done something wrong we've just been a really great business there's nothing wrong about that but yet
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: we're playing with people's emotions in a way that I don't
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. This question is kind of linked to what you've just been talking about, but what is a trend or design or design for good that needs to be put to rest immediately?
Katie: God. you've really put me on spot. so in what I'd be looking at, wouldn't say design. I think maybe acting on things
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: like. You can cut all of that out, I won't mind. That's really difficult. I don't pay lot of attention to trends if I'm being honest with you because quite a lot of them get
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: on my nerves. I think it's... a lot, you know. I think it's a lot of a night in is what it is. probably what I've already touched on.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: That's the one thing that I can really think of. It's trends that, and they're not fun trends anymore, they're taken
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: and they're adapted and then you see them for months and months and months
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: and I think especially this one where it's I'm sorry that we've done something wrong. That trend really...
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: has impacted me, I think.
Heather Ebanks: Maybe trends that maybe trick the viewer.
Katie: Yes.
Heather Ebanks: That is a trend that's always something else, but then it actually is not kind of
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: that pulls you in those kind of trends. Maybe that's probably
Katie: I think it's ones that are rooted in negativity though. Ones
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: that are like, we're sorry or we did a bad thing or we have a confession. I think
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: unless it's a joke and it's visibly a joke, I just,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I don't see the point in them.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, cool.
Katie: Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: And so what annoys you so much that it actually pushes you to do better work?
Katie: I think with Studio Good Work, it's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: always unapologetic doing the work that I'm proud of and whether people understand it or not is none of my business. Obviously as a designer, I deeply care about people connecting with the work, but if you can't
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: connect to it, then it's not for you.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: And also being unapologetic in the sense that if someone says, I don't agree with that statement, I don't agree with that word, that's fine. Let's have a discussion.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: And I'm quite open about things. I'm quite happy to have a difficult conversation without making things difficult. I'm here
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: to learn. You know, I'm still quite young in the industry. lot of people would probably think, despite, I think, I had to grow up quicker in the industry compared to a lot of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: people based on my experiences but
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: I'm here to learn and I'm still willing to
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understand people and hear their points of view because that's how everyone's work gets better.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: So mainly, yeah, just having an open dialogue. and not being. not keeping things to myself as much. If I've got something to say about the industry and I think other people want to say it, then I'll happily say it. I'm not ashamed that I've got a voice
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: in the industry and I'm not gonna be quiet because it upsets people.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah. Good on you, definitely.
Katie: Okay.
Heather Ebanks: Is there something you refuse to do even if it would make you more money?
Katie: Yes. So part of having Studio Goodwick is that I've got to be well rooted in that ethos. It's a design
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: for good or social design studio. So if the ethos and the principles aren't there, then
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: why do I exist? So for me, it is anything to do with anything that can go towards gambling. So I won't work
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: on any sort of lottery.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Katie: any sort of gambling thing. A lot of alcohol projects. I think alcohol is a very slippery slope. I don't drink a lot myself. I don't oppose people who do drink. But I'd be more inclined to work with people who are looking at alternatives,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: but still within the beverage space. But I wouldn't. It depends on the ethos of that brand, but quite often alcohol is a hard pass.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: anything that's detrimental to health
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: or yeah there's a lot of like does it harm could it cause harm
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: kind of like the, it's a bit Hippocratic-of. Not that I'm a doctor by any stretch of the imagination, but applying that same thing of could this hurt someone? If the answer is yes, then why am I doing it? And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: I was once asked to do a book cover and I was misled by what they were saying. I didn't realize
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Katie: what the content of the book was. They hadn't told me until I'd agreed to do the work. Now being an-
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Katie: naive and fresh to the industry I took the work on
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Katie: and then later realised that we were completely misaligned on the project. It was pro bono work, well they wanted it pro bono as well which
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I think you've got a cheek for asking.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: When I've already said that I'm not doing the work anymore, it's not aligned so
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, exactly.
Katie: yeah it's... always coming back to do I agree with it and if I don't agree with
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: it or if it feels wrong it's probably wrong.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yes.
Katie: If it's not an immediate yes
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: I tend to question if it's something that I really want to be doing.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah, if it doesn't feel good, you know, you don't want
to be working with people who are not aligned with your values and your mission and it's just going to make things difficult. yeah, definitely. Hmm. Hmm.
Katie: Yeah. And it makes people lose trust then. Because if they think, well you've said that you're all of these things,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Katie: why are you now working on an alcohol brand that,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: you know, alcoholism is a big thing. Why
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: are you saying you disagree with promoting such things? Why are you then working on something
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Katie: that could have that impact? And there is, I think it's in Mike Monterio's book. I think it's called, it's something by design, ruined by design, I think it's called. And it's like,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: if you design the gun, did you shoot the person? Like, no,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Katie: but you designed the gun knowing it could.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: and it's understanding at what point do you say no to that word. It's that thing
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: of, well, it may not directly impact someone, but it can, and it can be a drastic effect.
Heather Ebanks: what's the weirdest source of inspiration you've used in a project?
Katie: I love flowers. I'm a big Chelsea Flower Show fan.
Heather Ebanks: cool.
Katie: we're a big gardening family. Now, I don't like getting my hands
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: dirty. I don't like being in the dirt. That's... Yes,
Heather Ebanks: Just like the results.
Katie: I can appreciate the results. I can get excited when I see plants growing. I may change my mind, but right now...
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: I pay for my nails every month, I'm not putting them in soil. But I really love the process of growth and watching things bloom. And I bought, I think they're primulas, I bought them for my mom. But they look like they've been drawn on in biro. And
Heather Ebanks: All right.
Katie: I thought about them for weeks. They
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Katie: were so beautiful, but they look like little blue biro. illustrations and I have not
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Katie: been able to stop thinking about them. So that is, I don't know how I'm going to weave it into a project but I've got like an abstract shot of it ready and it's going into a project so keep your eyes out. I don't know when that's going to be but I absolutely love them and everyone's like shut up about these flowers like it's actually excited to me and I think I've not come across many things lately. that excite
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: me to do a project but yeah just a little diddy blue flower that I bought in Blue Diamond in St Melons has done it for me. Perfect. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: Cool, watch that space. It's interesting to see what you do with those ideas. So cool. Well, that was your studio draw. Is there anything else that's in your draw that you want to disclose with anybody who's listening that you haven't disclosed already?
Katie: I don't think so. I did make a note because obviously I've listened to loads of it. It's like, what's the one thing you use? And I can't be on the spot with this because I'm sat
Heather Ebanks: Don't want to ask you
Katie: at said drawer. So I made a note and I think it says a lot about me and it's that I only ever write in 0.38 emoji black gel pens only.
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Katie: And I made a note and I was like, I'm so pedantic. And I think it's quite... reflection of my character in that I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Katie: very, I need to know what I'm working with and I need to understand what I'm working with.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, it's kind of, it's a bit revealing, isn't it? What's in your, in your studio and your behind the scenes. Cause everyone's got this polished kind of Instagram version of themselves. And it's been interesting to hear what people have disclosed about their studio and behind the scenes. But yes, thank you very much
Katie: interested.
Heather Ebanks: for looking in your studio drawer and if you want to hear anything about Katie and her story, I will link her episode down in the notes thank you, Katie.
Katie: Nice, thank you.