TRASCRIZIONE 🔗
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From Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine in
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Cleveland, Ohio, this is the All Access Med School Admissions
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Podcast. Hello again, everybody. I'm your host, Christian Essman, and I'm the
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senior director of admissions and financial aid here at the medical school. It's great
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to be with you again. And, boy, that's some dramatic
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intro music. Hey,
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today we have a really fascinating conversation lined up
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for you. I'm joined by two current medical students named
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Brentyn Jones and Ricky Ditzel, who are also former
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Special Forces operators and and now serve as leaders
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in the nonprofit organization called softasam,
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that also stands for Special Operations Forces to
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School of Medicine. Their mission is to support transitioning
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Special Operations forces veterans as they pursue careers in
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medicine. But our conversation goes far beyond that.
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Now, you might be thinking, I'm not a veteran. So
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is this episode really. For me, the answer is
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absolutely. Don't leave. One of the key themes
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we explore in this episode is the idea
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of transferable skills and how
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experiences from one part of your life, whether it's
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leadership, problem solving, teamwork, or staying
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calm under pressure, can translate into success in medical
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school and beyond. So no matter what your background
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is, I think there's something in here for
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you. I think you'll also find some inspiration from these two
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remarkable individuals as they discuss topics like
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resilience, confidence, and the mindset that has
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helped them navigate both elite military service
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and medical school. Plus, these guys share some
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candid insights into their own journeys through medical
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school, offering some valuable advice for anyone considering this
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path. So stick around. You won't want to miss
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this. And I'm also thrilled to share some exciting
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news. Our medical school has officially become a
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partner with the SoftASAM organization, so we're
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joining their mission to support veterans on their path to medical
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education. And we're really proud to be a part of this meaningful
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initiative. If you're inspired by their mission and you want to learn
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more, get involved or even support their work, you can visit their
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website, which is www.softtusamits. so
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you'll find a link to that their organization in the show
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description, and there you'll find detailed info about their
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programs, resources, and all the things they do, how you connect with them.
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So, hey, with that, let's jump right into it with Brentyn and
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Ricky. Enjoy.
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All right. Hey, guys, Welcome. I have Ricky Ditzel
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and Brentyn Jones with me, and it's great to have you guys here.
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Really interesting conversation. One that's a little bit different than what
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we normally do on this show. So I'M really grateful for you guys to be
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here. We're going to talk about the organization
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you guys are both a part of and help
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build and then we're going to talk a little bit about some of the
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transferable skills that I think you guys are going to have some great insight
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in both med students right now. So I want to start off
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with Breton. Tell us a little bit about yourself, man.
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Yeah, thanks for having me on, Christian. So my name is Brentyn Jones. I'm a
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first year medical student at West Virginia University School of
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Medicine. So I am a non
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traditional student. I joined a little bit later into
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the medical school pipeline. I spent the last nine years
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in the Navy as a Navy SEAL and a special
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operations combat medicine and I pretty much joined
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that straight out of high school. So left high school, joined the
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Navy, knocked out my undergrad while I was in, and then
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applied to medical school on the back end and started this last fall.
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Wow. So your
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background with the seals, how did you decide to
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be a combat medic?
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That's an interesting story. I guess I'd always been kind of
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interested in medicine, but I think that it was appealing
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because. Because the scope of work that we were able to do
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seemed to be a little bit better if you were a medic. And
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I like the idea of being able to help my
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teammates and so it kind of put my toe in
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to go to the school.
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Our class basically votes when you graduate, who goes. I
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got voted to go over there and I ended up falling in love
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with medicine while I was doing it and kind
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of decided to pursue it on the outside
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of the civilian. Wow. So the team votes who
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to send to combat medic school. The way that
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we had done it, like when you graduate from what we call
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SEAL qualification training, there's a couple of billets
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basically to go to medic school. We get augmented with
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the army for about a year and go through like the Green Berets
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training pipeline for medics called Sockham.
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But we generally you have a lot more people that want to go than
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you have billets for. So kind of make your case and
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then your classmates get to decide who ends up going and
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who doesn't. Oh, it's interesting. Ricky Ditzel.
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So like Bren, I was a. I'm a non traditional student as well. I'm a
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second year medical student at Rush Medical College in Chicago.
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I also joined the Army. Well, I joined the army, not the Navy, 30 days
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after graduating from high school, so graduated and went
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right off to the military. Initially served as an infantry
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medic and a brigade support battalion medic at
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Fort Liberty, which used to be known as Fort Bragg, before assessing and
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selecting to become a Special Operations flight paramedic with the
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160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, which
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is the premier aviation unit within the military to support the United
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States Special Operations Command. I also did my
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undergraduate degree while on active duty. I graduated from the George Washington
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University with a disaster management degree. And when I got
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out of the military in order to go to medical school, I completed a post
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baccalaureate pre medical certification at Columbia University in New
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York. Wow. Talk a little bit about how does the,
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the aviation battalion that you
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mentioned? Like how does. Is that support all
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branches or is it just army? Oh, so yeah,
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that's probably my favorite part is that we support anybody under the Special Operations
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Command umbrella. So that could be guys like Breton
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with seals, it could be folks like Reed Berets, it could be Special Mission Unit
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guys. It can be a whole bunch of different organizations.
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So that was one of my favorite parts of that job, was I needed to
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understand the protocols medically and tactically for all different
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units so that we could work cohesively. How many years were you
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in? I did eight years active duty. Okay,
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deployments. Where were you guys? Where'd you guys find yourself? Around the world?
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Yeah, I deployed once to Europe and then
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once to Africa. And then after my last
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deployment, they did what they call a shore
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command. But you get generally put in like
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a training type situation where you're non deployable, you're kind of giving back to
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the force before you deploy again. And while I was there,
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I stood up a tactical medical training command for all
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the SEAL medics on the East Coast. That means you were
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training other SEALs and in medic work?
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Yeah. So basically we set up a bunch of courses for them
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that was kind of the one side of it. We were able to partner with
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some civilian institutions and get
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them rotations up in New York. And then
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you're training. Like we kind of give back a little bit at the give and
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take relationship. But yeah, we train all the SEAL and like Special Boat Team medics.
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And then we'd also have like FBI medics, SWAT medics.
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We take local buyer
paramedics, come in and
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put them through our course. Wow. I'm trying to. You guys have
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a different language and so I find myself trying to
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translate a little bit when. When some of
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the phrases you guys use. Ricky, where were you finding yourself
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deployed? Deployed. Iraq and Afghanistan. Yeah.
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Wow. So you guys come back and you guys start
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to get into medicine. And then the next thing you know, there's
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this Special Operations Forces to School of Medicine organization.
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That's why we're here, part of the conversation today. So hear a little bit about
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that, talk about the origins of that and kind of, what. What does it do?
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What's the mission? Sure. So Special Operations
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Forces School of Medicine, or softasam for short, and how we can refer to it.
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The rest of this talk probably is a 501C3 that's out of North
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Carolina that helps the current and former special operator on their journey
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becoming a physician. So that means the premedical phase, the medical phase,
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and then the residency and beyond phase. So we want to take care of you
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through all three phases. The origin story is quite interesting. So I was at
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Columbia. Like I said, I had academic advisors who were helping me
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out with deadlines, personal statements. What is the working activities?
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Having all these great seminars about applying to medical school. So I was in this
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pipeline program, for lack of better terms. And then one of my best
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friends who had been accepted medical school in the past but had
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deferred to go to another military unit, was going back through the
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medical pipeline. And so him and I were talking every day about, like, what. What
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we were putting our applications, what does it look like, et cetera. And he
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said, hey, I got this other guy from my organization who
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is a little bit older, and he's trying to go to medical school, but, you
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know, he's working in a specific job and
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he doesn't really know what to do, so we should, like, get in a group
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chat together. So we got in this group chat and we were all studying for
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the MCAT to save time. And he's like, hey, do you remember Jesse Malaski? And
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I was like, oh, I know Jesse. We did X, Y, and Z together. He's
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like, hey, we're gonna add him to the group chat. He's studying for the mcat,
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too. He's trying to go to Mayo Clinic. And so that was. That's where it
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started. It was like five, six of us in this group chat. We're talking every
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day about MCAT studying. What resources are you using? You know, what are you writing
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your personal statement? How much military are you putting in your personal statement? How much
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military are you not putting in your personal statement? You know, what are you afraid
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of talking about? What are you not afraid? What are you comfortable talking about? And
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we just kept growing this little group chat. It was like, oh, hey, I remember
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Brentyn Jones. He's trying to Go to medical school. We should add him in the
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group chat. And the list goes on. Well, as we're in this
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thing, this group chat, we started doing these
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like, zoom sessions of talking to each other about, you know,
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your application, your military career and what you're going to put on your application.
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And we had one folk, one person in particular who's now our CEO,
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and I remember meeting with him on Zoom and he was going to apply to
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medical school and he had hit me up and he was like, hey, I'm.
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My personal statement's done. I got like eight working activities. Here's my MCAT score. I'm
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going to apply to med school. And I found this to be a really big
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red flag, the eight working activities, specifically because I did a study with West
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Virginia University School of Medicine, wvsam,
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looking at all their allopathic applicants medical school. And we found that it
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was statistically significant acceptance if you had 12 or more work
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and activity sections filled out. So if you looked at all, all
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variables across the board, mcat, gpa, whatever, those were the obvious, like
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higher mcat, higher gpa. But the work activities thing hasn't really been talked
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about. So I was like,
hey, you can't apply to med school. You won't get
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in. Statistically proven. So we got in the zoom chat and it was initially,
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it's going to be about, how can I. How can we add to his
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working activity section? So three hours
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later, we had a 15 section, working
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activities filled out, and we had a therapy session.
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And I think that the most important part of that zoom call was this deeper
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connection with someone who had really robust
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experiences, unlike many people in the military have ever had, let
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alone people on this planet. And he didn't want to talk about it.
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He felt like he was selling out his teammates. He felt like he was
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selling out the personnel he treated that didn't make it home, both us and non
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US personnel. He felt like nobody would
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care about what he was going to talk about. He felt that his story wasn't
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believable and he had not talked about any
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of that and had repressed it for so many years due to things like
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moral injury and just overall coping mechanism. When you're in the
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military, you know, sometimes we cope by just not talking about it, whether
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we're doing it consciously or not. And I said, after that call, I said,
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man, we really have something. And the most important part
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is this guy wasn't going to get into medical
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school and he probably wasn't going to reapply if he didn't get into medical school.
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And I don't know how many
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academic advisors could tap in the way we were able
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to tap in. And I don't mean that any disrespect to any academic advisors out
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there. You guys are incredible at what you do. But what sparked the
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conversation was he said he was in a certain location, deployed location, a certain year.
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And I said, oh, you were part of that special Forces
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team? He said, yeah. And I said, so you were with this doctor? He's like,
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yeah. And I said, so you did that save and it's a very well known
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patient save in our community. And he was like, yeah, dude, that was me. And
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I was like, where is that on your application?
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And that's when he kind of broke down. And I
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think that that was a huge breakthrough we had. And from
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that conversation we've had tons more since that
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person. So I know it's a very long answer from what is soft to song,
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but I think it's really important. Yeah. Understand that what we're doing
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is a forest bias type thing. But I
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personally believe that these folks, most of them would be successful without us getting
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into medical school. They're high achievers, they've been highly selected,
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psychologically, physically, emotionally, multiple times throughout their careers
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and they're high achieving individuals. The thing that we provide differently
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is that like you said in the beginning of the podcast, we speak the language,
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we can decode it, we
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know things that they've been through, we can relate to them and we can
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extract that and get it out of them and help them transition
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from a very high functioning
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physical and mental, but more physical type job
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into medicine, which is much, much different from physical to
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a more cognitive, demanding job in a totally different
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environment. So that's who we are. That's where we came from. We're
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officially incorporated. We have a whole all volunteer board, all volunteer staff, and we
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operate through three programs which we can talk about later. And that's our mentorship
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program, scholarship program and research program. What's the
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organization do today to support.
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You've mentioned scholars, there's a scholar program. So talk a little
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bit about how that happens now.
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Yes. So the way that happens now is we have application
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cycle that opens up basically in line with the
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AAMC cycle so that we're aligned to what the medical schools are
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looking for. And we take folks up to two to three years out from them
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applying to medical school so people can be in all the different stages of being
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ready. So it could be the postbac stage The I'm figuring my life out stage,
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or hey, I'm taking the MCAT six month stage. And we have a
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proprietary screening model of objective measures that we
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found to be successful for what makes someone successful in medical school
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to our standard. So once they're selected by our committee,
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they're brought on and we provide them one on one mentorship
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with a paired mentor who has something in common with them that's going to help
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them succeed. So that could be seal to seal, that could be sealed, a green
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beret. But those persons are both married and they both want to go the
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same geographic area, et cetera. So we find something where those folks can connect
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and provide best value. We provide funding for
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their application fees, tutoring fees,
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and MCAT preparation fees. And then our research
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program helps these folks become published authors for
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the first time or speak at conferences, teach them about research,
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just add to their overall picture of being a physician and also help to become
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highly competitive. And Bren has a very specific role in our
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nonprofit that has also, I
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would say, stemmed from the fact that we have this great selection
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program which allows his job to
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flourish. I'll let Brentyn kind of talk about our outreach. Talk a little about what
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you do. Yeah. So I'm the director of
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partnerships, and my job more or less has been
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connecting with different universities that value the
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backgrounds and some of the skill sets and strengths that prior
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military and specifically special forces have to
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bring into medical school and then later into being
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physicians. So we basically try to
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see where they stand, see where these universities
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and softasam and our scholars have common
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interests and we make these linkage programs.
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So we have about 10 right now. We have four or five
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more that are in the process at the moment. But
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these linkage programs basically allow our scholars
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to get a little bit of a second
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look, I guess is probably the best way to describe
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it. So they, the universities are buying
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in on the fact that the average training pipeline for
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our guys is around one and a half to two years. And the average
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investment of training of special operations
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course of personnel is around $1.3
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million. And so that's obviously all taxpayer
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funded, but they're making an investment
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in the investment that's already been made in and allowing these
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guys to use the high specialty
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training and the mentalities that they've been able to
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grow throughout their time in the military and
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transition it into being the same high level performers
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in an academic and then later in a medical
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environment. Yeah. Talk a little bit
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about Ricky. How many scholars now
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have gone through the program. Like, how many cohorts have you had
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some success rates? What's that look like? Yeah,
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so we've done three cohorts successfully so far,
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and that's 30 personnel, plus or minus, like, five, like,
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four people. On the plus side, actually about 30 personnel so far
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in a medical school. And right now we're at
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100% success rate there with people applying and being matriculated.
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And I think the exciting part of
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that has been that, you know, we
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set this goal of trying to take 10 folks per year, just from a
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bandwidth perspective and a funding perspective, mostly the bandwidth. Just make sure we can really
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mentor them and put the effort into them. And to see that payoff
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has just been incredible. I think my favorite thing ever is we
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have a candid photo of one of our folks getting accepted into medical school. And
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one of our guys had taken a picture right as he got the phone call,
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and he's got this big smile on his face, and he's been trying
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to get to medical school for, like, three years. I think that that
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picture
summarizes our why, for sure. Yeah,
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that's. It's such a amazing organization.
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I'm still grateful that you guys reached out to me to talk about
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this, because I think you guys are doing great work
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for great, great people, and
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it's very impressive what you. What you guys have put together.
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Let's talk a little bit more about. Like,
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do you want to transition to talk about some transferable skills?
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And I. I have to think,
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guys, that that was probably something. When you're having these conversations with the scholars,
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is drawing out from them, like
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your. To your story, Ricky, about the. The one. The guy who didn't
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feel like they could share some stuff or just was reluctant in a way
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to maybe talk about things in a way that medical schools would want to hear
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about them. How do you get guys to talk about transferable skills
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or understand the things they've done in their training? Med schools want to hear
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about this? Yeah, for sure. This is something I'm, like, really
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passionate about, too. So
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when we talk to the special operations medics, this. The. So we take care of
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any special operator. It doesn't matter if you're a communications person, a medical
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person. If you were a weapons
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expert, whatever, it'd be your special operator. Special operations. What we see with the
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medics is the medics, because they function this high
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capacity of trauma diagnosticians and proceduralists.
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They want to talk about their transferable tactical medical skills. They
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want to talk about the fact that they can do a chest tube or take
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someone's airway surgically. Major minor surgeries they've
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completed. And what we've realized, and actually what we move
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away from is we don't want them to really talk about these crazy
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medical cases they've taken care of, because that. That part,
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while transferable, isn't what we think makes them unique and
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special. We think makes them unique and special across the board of
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our special operators is they're highly
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resilient individuals who are
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expert problem solvers. So what they can
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do and tested throughout their career is, you know, when you're in
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the unit that I was in, or even the unit Brent is in, rank doesn't
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matter and age doesn't matter. So when I was a brand new young guy at
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my unit, I deployed for the first time. You know, I'm briefing 200
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people on a tactical medical plan at a, you
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know, task force level of 200, 300 people for an entire area of
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operations. And I'm, you know, 23, 24 years
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old, you know, low rank. If you were to look at traditional military
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ranks, and my word is gospel, and the ground force commander who you
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could say is like the CEO of the mission, that CEO takes everything I say
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seriously and is like, okay, that medic from that unit said, that's what we're going
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to do. As soon as injured, I trust them. There's no. No questions, because that
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unit's reputation has been that for so many years.
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So I think what's very transferable from our folks is extra
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little problem solving. They're extremely resilient individuals.
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The whole stage of medicine in the career of being a physician is all about
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resiliency. In medical school, it's resiliency. In studying and
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test taking, it's resiliency and prepping for step one, it's
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resiliency. When you score a bad on one test, can you bounce back and get
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good at the next test? It's telling your friends that you can't go out on
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Friday or Saturday because you have step one, step two coming up. It's all these
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little things you're attending telling you did a terrible presentation that day
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on rounds, and you got to come back the next day and crush it and
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be happy you got told you did that. And then in residency,
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it's first time a patient dies. It's the first time you make a medical mistake.
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It's your attending telling you you're terrible that day, and then the next day come
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back and looking them in the face and being like, hey, I Had a bad
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day yesterday. And then when
you're attending, it's all on you. So
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our folks have been tested through that, through every stage of their
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career, and that's what our those selections are looking for. In the military, it's not
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about 100 push ups. It's not about the super fast runners. It's usually
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the middle of the pac fol. Folks that have extreme mental and
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emotional maturity, who can take that adversity and smile
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and be like, oh, man, this sucks right now, but it won't last forever.
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This backpack's super heavy, but at some point I'm going to take it off.
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And I think that's what's really special about our folks, and that's what's really transferable.
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And then the last thing is these people have been in leadership positions since day
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zero. They know how to get people motivated. They know
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how to drive people towards a goal. They know how to take a really big
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goal and chop it down to small pieces so that you have a cohesive vision
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for where we're trying to go and what we're trying to do. They can see
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the long game and break it up into short pieces, which really is your
401
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first two years of medical school. What do I need to do every single day
402
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so that when step one comes around, I'm gonna crush it? And then you just
403
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keep doing that. And then medicine is teamwork, and
404
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medicine is teamwork of people with different levels of education, different
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levels of experience, and different specialty. Whether that specialty is
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environmental services, business administration, billing,
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or neurosurgery versus family medicine. Special
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operators. They have the SEAL team. So Bren
409
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has him and his group of seals. They have the motor guys,
410
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the mechanics who've helped fix the vehicles. They have the regular
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Navy corpsmen or regular Navy folks who are going to support them on their,
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you know, on their ship or say, be a cook or whatever. Then they
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have the special Operations command in charge them. And then sometimes they might have a
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big Navy command team that they have to interact with that's very similar
415
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setup. So being able to have this meta leadership style where they can lead up,
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down, left and right and work cohesively in a team of differing opinions and
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skill levels to be successful, I think is really unique
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and really rare. And you don't see that in a lot of different. In a
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lot of backgrounds. So I think that's highly transferable skills that make these folks
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successful. Yeah, we, we had a prep call before
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this and before we sat down today, and you were
422
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talking, you guys were talking A little bit about how the, our rigorous selection
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process to be a scholar. And I kind of laughed and said, haven't you
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guys been through enough to be selected
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for this? I mean, you guys have been working your tails off for almost
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10 years in the, in the, in this area. And I think, Ricky, you said
427
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something like there's always selection. Yep. Selection's
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an ongoing process. That's right. Selection is an ongoing process.
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And isn't that something that's transferable you see in medicine?
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Yeah, I think Brentyn can really talk about this better than me. But I'll say
431
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something to prime him, which is you got to earn the Trident every single
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day. You got to earn the right to call yourself a SEAL every day. So
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I think, Brian, you can talk more about what it's like to be constantly
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selected. Yeah,
435
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that's one of our sayings. You have to earn your Trident every day.
436
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And basically the premise of that is you put all this effort in on the
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front end, going through our selection courses, to be able to wear a trident, which
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is the insignia of a Navy seal, and to be able to
439
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be called a Navy seal, but you have to consistently
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earn that right. You've never made it more or less
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is the thought process behind it. And what
442
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that does is it weeds out complacency and it weeds
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out a lowering of standards, which is what happens a
444
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lot of times when you set a goal and you reach it is you've already
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hit the pinnacle. And so it's very easy to see that start to
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regress, whether physically,
whether it's
447
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mentally, whether whether it's the amount of commitment, time
448
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and effort you're putting into something. It's very hard to
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keep motivation when there isn't a follow on
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goal. So I think that that is
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probably one of the more, the more
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relatable things when you move into medicine and into health care
453
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is it's very easy to finish your
454
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residency and then basically not make any
455
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changes for the rest of your career, which is what you see happen sometimes with
456
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older physicians who are stuck in something they learned 30 years ago
457
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and unwilling to change, but if you have this ever growing
458
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mindset of change and growth, it
459
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allows you to be able to not only stay at the forefront of your given
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field, which in this case is going to be medicine, but also to be a
461
00:28:09,646 --> 00:28:13,462
leader and innovative because you're not falling behind, you're actually staying on
462
00:28:13,486 --> 00:28:17,220
the forefront of whatever it is you're doing. How have you
463
00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:20,280
found Brentyn, now that you're a first year medical student?
464
00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:24,516
That you're seeing transferable skills not only
465
00:28:24,588 --> 00:28:27,972
in yourself, as you're now out of the military
466
00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:31,812
and you're back to being a student and in your
467
00:28:31,836 --> 00:28:35,444
classmates. What have you seen that has been helpful to
468
00:28:35,452 --> 00:28:39,076
you as far as these transferable skills, ones you possess and ones
469
00:28:39,108 --> 00:28:41,000
maybe you've seen in your classmates?
470
00:28:43,670 --> 00:28:47,134
I think that for me, I didn't have
471
00:28:47,302 --> 00:28:50,990
as much of a rigorous school background as
472
00:28:51,030 --> 00:28:54,670
some other people. I didn't have a bioengineering
473
00:28:54,750 --> 00:28:58,350
undergraduate degree. So going into medical school, I think
474
00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:01,758
for a lot of traditional students, especially that lean very
475
00:29:01,814 --> 00:29:05,662
heavily into the sciences is a
476
00:29:05,686 --> 00:29:09,022
lot easier due solely to the fact that they have
477
00:29:09,046 --> 00:29:12,766
been very high achieving academically and they've
478
00:29:12,798 --> 00:29:16,382
been put in very rigorous learning and testing conditions
479
00:29:16,446 --> 00:29:20,206
for pretty much the entirety of their academic careers.
480
00:29:20,398 --> 00:29:24,174
So transitioning into that was difficult for me. It
481
00:29:24,182 --> 00:29:27,850
was kind of a bit of a learning shock. And I think when
482
00:29:28,550 --> 00:29:32,158
I look back at the question you were originally asking, it
483
00:29:32,214 --> 00:29:35,918
is when you're not doing as well as you know you can
484
00:29:35,974 --> 00:29:39,736
be doing, what changes can you make to
485
00:29:39,808 --> 00:29:43,544
be successful? And I think that what we see, what
486
00:29:43,552 --> 00:29:47,400
I see in buds when I was going through, was kind of
487
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,240
something Ricky touched on previously. But it's that the people
488
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,872
who are generally the most high performing, the people
489
00:29:54,976 --> 00:29:58,600
that are holding, you know, world records for
490
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,864
running or for powerlifting or whatever it is,
491
00:30:02,032 --> 00:30:05,592
they've never really come to a situation where they failed.
492
00:30:05,736 --> 00:30:09,300
And what each of these selection pipelines does,
493
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,416
and even once you make it through, as they put you in positions where
494
00:30:13,488 --> 00:30:17,192
you will fail, nothing you will do will be good enough. And
495
00:30:17,216 --> 00:30:21,000
it makes you have to recover from that and
496
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,424
figure out how you're going to make changes to be successful moving forward. So in
497
00:30:24,432 --> 00:30:27,384
these selection pipelines, a lot of the people who have never failed fail for the
498
00:30:27,392 --> 00:30:30,920
first time and it's detrimental to them and they end up washing out and not
499
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,728
finishing selection because they can't cope with the fact that their best
500
00:30:34,784 --> 00:30:38,276
effort in this case was not good enough. I think in that medical school it's
501
00:30:38,308 --> 00:30:42,068
been very, very similar so far. And I would assume that that
502
00:30:42,124 --> 00:30:45,732
translates well into residency and to being an attending
503
00:30:45,796 --> 00:30:49,140
physician as well, where you're going to fail
504
00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:52,756
and you have to be able to recover,
505
00:30:52,868 --> 00:30:56,532
make changes and not make the same mistake again, which
506
00:30:56,556 --> 00:31:00,212
is the name of the game for us. You can make the mistake once, but
507
00:31:00,236 --> 00:31:02,612
you can't make it twice. So what are you going to do to make sure
508
00:31:02,636 --> 00:31:06,352
it doesn't happen again? Ricky, what would you say about that? What
509
00:31:06,376 --> 00:31:10,160
have you seen? What have been some of the skills that maybe surprised you, that
510
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,632
you possess, that you're like, oh, like I'm.
511
00:31:13,776 --> 00:31:17,456
That I didn't think that kind of skill or characteristic would,
512
00:31:17,528 --> 00:31:20,608
I'd be using that today. But you are as a second year medical
513
00:31:20,664 -->
00:31:24,192
student. You know, one that
514
00:31:24,216 --> 00:31:27,072
surprised me. That's a tough question. I have to really think about one that has
515
00:31:27,096 --> 00:31:30,380
surprised me. There's so many that haven't surprised me.
516
00:31:31,650 --> 00:31:35,466
But no one that I think surprised me, that
517
00:31:35,618 --> 00:31:39,226
we're really good at is public speaking and briefing.
518
00:31:39,338 --> 00:31:42,890
I think that is the superpower of the, of our
519
00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:46,630
community. I didn't real, you know, I didn't realize that.
520
00:31:48,050 --> 00:31:51,338
Well, you know me having a medical background, I knew about presenting patients, I knew
521
00:31:51,354 --> 00:31:54,858
about presenting to a attending physician. I've done that my whole
522
00:31:54,874 --> 00:31:58,556
career. But what I didn't realize was that being
523
00:31:58,628 --> 00:32:02,220
confident in speaking is something that really helps you stand
524
00:32:02,260 --> 00:32:05,980
out and it really is a differentiator in medical school. I think
525
00:32:06,020 --> 00:32:09,820
a lot of the folks in medical school are extremely smart individuals. They're very, very
526
00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:13,708
smart. But there's a difference in confidence level sometimes
527
00:32:13,804 --> 00:32:17,400
of folks and I'll be in class or I'll be in
528
00:32:17,780 --> 00:32:21,452
a situation with attendings and other medical students. Sometimes you want to keep
529
00:32:21,476 --> 00:32:24,204
your mouth shut and not speak because you're like, oh, I'm a med student, I
530
00:32:24,212 --> 00:32:28,034
don't need to speak up. But from my background and other backgrounds of guys in
531
00:32:28,042 --> 00:32:31,346
Soft Assam is we've always been in rooms where there's a higher ranking
532
00:32:31,378 --> 00:32:34,930
individual with more experience and might be smarter and if you
533
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:38,002
identify there's a problem or you identify something wrong, you're supposed to speak up because
534
00:32:38,026 --> 00:32:41,826
that could get someone killed if you don't. And I think that surprised
535
00:32:41,858 --> 00:32:44,850
me a lot as being classroom is, I'm surrounded by people who probably know the
536
00:32:44,890 --> 00:32:48,722
answer faster than I do, may know it earlier than, than I do, but they
537
00:32:48,746 --> 00:32:52,492
won't speak up. And I speak up a lot. And I think that just
538
00:32:52,516 --> 00:32:55,640
comes from having confidence, being in rooms and speaking up.
539
00:32:56,020 --> 00:32:59,692
Because I've, I've been in situations where my
540
00:32:59,716 --> 00:33:02,652
senior medic or someone's like hey man, when we're in briefing, like you're the guy
541
00:33:02,716 --> 00:33:05,756
so you need to talk and they force you to, they put you in uncomfortable
542
00:33:05,788 --> 00:33:09,500
positions. You know, I, I go back to briefing ground force commanders and task force
543
00:33:09,580 --> 00:33:13,388
overseas. You can't question yourself when you're
544
00:33:13,404 --> 00:33:15,964
going to go spend and stand in front of 250 people and tell them what
545
00:33:15,972 --> 00:33:19,020
the medical plan is. You know, the medical mission plan is if one, their best
546
00:33:19,060 --> 00:33:22,768
friend gets hurt, you know, I can't walk up to Brighton's platoo
547
00:33:22,844 --> 00:33:26,456
command, you know, SEAL team commander, and say, hey, I think I have an idea
548
00:33:26,488 --> 00:33:29,768
of what's going on, but if you need me, call me. That they're gonna shut
549
00:33:29,784 --> 00:33:33,528
the mission down, you know, and that's, that's, that's, that's just too important. So
550
00:33:33,584 --> 00:33:37,240
that's very much surprised me is our
551
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,096
folks have this ability to brief. They know how to
552
00:33:41,168 --> 00:33:44,920
brief long and short. Because we had to be
553
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,248
in situations where we, we have to adjust our
554
00:33:48,304 --> 00:33:52,060
methodology. And they're very confident, dang. What they think
555
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:55,852
is incorrect in certain rooms. And I think the thing we have to
556
00:33:55,876 --> 00:33:59,356
work on ourselves as special operators and we, we remind our guys in south dasam
557
00:33:59,388 --> 00:34:02,284
is you guys got to change the approach a little bit. You know, in the
558
00:34:02,292 --> 00:34:05,516
military, you can tell someone they're wrong a certain way. And
559
00:34:05,668 --> 00:34:09,212
medicine, we, you know, in academics, we just gotta. The tact a little more
560
00:34:09,236 --> 00:34:13,052
tactful. Yeah, a lot more tactful. Yeah. So I
561
00:34:13,076 --> 00:34:16,899
think it was something Ricky, you said was important a moment ago was that. But
562
00:34:16,939 --> 00:34:19,279
you can't be afraid to speak up.
563
00:34:22,379 --> 00:34:26,179
I think there's an analog between the hierarchy in medicine,
564
00:34:26,259 --> 00:34:29,747
which you've mentioned. You can have attending, fellow, resident,
565
00:34:29,843 --> 00:34:33,639
medical student, and there's hierarchy obviously in the military.
566
00:34:33,979 --> 00:34:37,731
And to your point, if you don't speak up about something,
567
00:34:37,915 --> 00:34:41,651
there could be very detrimental consequences to
568
00:34:41,675 --> 00:34:44,970
that. And I think there's a, I think
569
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:48,782
there can be a, in medicine, a
570
00:34:48,806 --> 00:34:52,478
tendency to have group think. And if you get stuck in group
571
00:34:52,534 --> 00:34:56,318
think, that's when problems can occur. And
572
00:34:56,374 --> 00:35:00,142
if you feel like I'm the, the junior person on this team, but
573
00:35:00,166 --> 00:35:03,966
I, I think I see something. There's a mistake here, but I'm the medical
574
00:35:04,038 --> 00:35:07,748
student and I'm in a vulnerable position because I'm being
575
00:35:07,934 --> 00:35:11,592
evaluated by the resident or attending and
576
00:35:11,616 --> 00:35:15,272
I'm afraid to say something that group. And if the attending is like saying, I
577
00:35:15,296 --> 00:35:17,960
think this is happening right now, this is where we should proceed. But if that
578
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,592
student is astute and picks up on something but feels the
579
00:35:21,616 --> 00:35:25,432
fear to not saying something, that group think can bleed through
580
00:35:25,456 --> 00:35:29,128
the rest of the team and there can be problems there too. Is that something
581
00:35:29,184 --> 00:35:31,540
that you agree and have seen?
582
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,918
100%. I've actually talked to my classmates about this a lot.
583
00:35:36,104 --> 00:35:39,922
You know, at my school, we have conversations all the time in what we call
584
00:35:39,946 --> 00:35:43,730
our, like, role sessions. More of the professionalism side of, of
585
00:35:43,770 --> 00:35:47,314
our curriculum. And we always talk. There's always examples of like, you're in the operating
586
00:35:47,362 --> 00:35:50,994
room and there's a malignant surgeon and they're telling you they're doing something wrong and
587
00:35:51,002 --> 00:35:53,730
you're the med student. What do you do? And I'm like, tell them they're wrong,
588
00:35:53,810 --> 00:35:57,442
like calling a safety timeout or something. And like, you know, a lot of my
589
00:35:57,466 --> 00:36:00,658
classmates will be like, well, aren't you afraid they're going to yell at you? Aren't
590
00:36:00,674 --> 00:36:03,850
you afraid they're going to hold that against you for residency?
591
00:36:04,190 --> 00:36:07,862
And respectfully, what I say is the only thing that separates us from
592
00:36:07,886 --> 00:36:11,414
them is time. We're in the, you know, to all the other med students out
593
00:36:11,422 --> 00:36:15,142
there, you're in the same pipeline as any of these surgeons, any of these attendings
594
00:36:15,206 --> 00:36:18,982
that you're going to work for one day. They've just started earlier than you.
595
00:36:19,006 --> 00:36:22,662
They're born earlier than you. They worked just as hard. They
596
00:36:22,686 --> 00:36:26,342
went through the medical school pipeline. They went to a residency, and now
597
00:36:26,366 --> 00:36:28,982
they're using the same skills they learned as a medical student resident and applying it
598
00:36:29,006 --> 00:36:32,786
every day as an independent practitioner. But they were exactly
599
00:36:32,818 --> 00:36:36,402
where you were at when you were. When, when you started, when they
600
00:36:36,426 --> 00:36:39,746
started. So I, I
601
00:36:39,898 --> 00:36:43,490
respect the, the hierarchy and the chain of command a
602
00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:46,642
lot because I grew up in it. I understand why it's so important. You know,
603
00:36:46,666 --> 00:36:50,466
I'm not an attending physician. They do know a lot more medicine than I do.
604
00:36:50,618 --> 00:36:53,950
However, we're all people
605
00:36:54,810 --> 00:36:58,562
and we all have good experience. We all have, you know, a high
606
00:36:58,586 --> 00:37:02,422
degree of intelligence. So I don't see anything wrong with speaking up
607
00:37:02,446 --> 00:37:06,054
in a room when there's something especially like a safety concern or a
608
00:37:06,062 --> 00:37:08,770
patient safety concern involved. It's just,
609
00:37:10,270 --> 00:37:13,970
it's just a timing thing. In 10 years, I'll be where they're at, too.
610
00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:18,838
That's awesome. Brentyn, talk a little bit about, like, what's
611
00:37:18,854 --> 00:37:22,370
your advice to. We've been focusing a lot on
612
00:37:22,750 --> 00:37:26,350
our special forces operator, like
613
00:37:26,390 --> 00:37:30,222
alum or veterans going into medicine. But I'm sure you have
614
00:37:30,246 --> 00:37:33,050
classmates that are non traditional students as well.
615
00:37:33,830 --> 00:37:37,054
What's your advice to non traditional or just traditional
616
00:37:37,102 --> 00:37:40,734
applicants as far as these kind of
617
00:37:40,742 --> 00:37:44,462
skills we're talking about? Yeah,
618
00:37:44,526 --> 00:37:48,238
so we definitely have a lot of non traditional applicants. I think the
619
00:37:48,294 --> 00:37:51,998
numbers for that across the country have been going up
620
00:37:52,054 --> 00:37:55,250
pretty tremendously. And I think with these universities
621
00:37:56,470 --> 00:37:59,530
transitioning to a more what they call holistic approach
622
00:38:00,310 --> 00:38:03,534
also has taken away a lot of the kind of traditional
623
00:38:03,582 --> 00:38:07,342
barriers. You will do four years and
624
00:38:07,366 --> 00:38:11,102
get a chemistry or biology degree, and you will scribe for four
625
00:38:11,126 --> 00:38:14,894
years and you will get a 4.0 and a 520 MCAT
626
00:38:14,942 --> 00:38:18,526
or you're not getting in at medical school. I think that they've wanted
627
00:38:18,558 --> 00:38:22,340
to open up their aperture a little bit as to what
628
00:38:22,380 --> 00:38:25,860
they let in and who they're training to be
629
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:29,652
physicians. Because I think like in pretty much all aspects of
630
00:38:29,836 --> 00:38:33,040
every occupation, there is a
631
00:38:33,660 --> 00:38:37,284
benefit to having diversity of background, skill sets,
632
00:38:37,412 --> 00:38:40,708
knowledge, critical thinking. So in
633
00:38:40,764 --> 00:38:44,580
seeing my fellow veterans in my class, as well as the
634
00:38:44,620 --> 00:38:48,182
other non traditional students that don't have veteran background,
635
00:38:48,316 --> 00:38:52,162
I think the biggest thing is leveraging the skill sets that you've learned
636
00:38:52,226 --> 00:38:55,714
or that you've mastered in your specific trade
637
00:38:55,802 --> 00:38:59,586
or, you know, career background into
638
00:38:59,738 --> 00:39:03,410
something that
is going to benefit
639
00:39:03,490 --> 00:39:07,154
the school and will later benefit you as a physician.
640
00:39:07,202 --> 00:39:10,914
Ricky went over a lot of the things that we see in special operations,
641
00:39:11,042 --> 00:39:14,834
but a lot of those skills could be easily transferred to
642
00:39:14,922 --> 00:39:18,290
a lot of other occupations. And there's a lot of skills that other
643
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:21,838
occupations have that, that you probably don't see in special
644
00:39:21,894 --> 00:39:25,614
operations. So I think the hard thing and what we have done at SOFT
645
00:39:25,662 --> 00:39:28,702
to SOM is helped to identify a lot of the common
646
00:39:28,766 --> 00:39:32,574
threads to be able to use to exemplify the type
647
00:39:32,622 --> 00:39:36,206
of applicant that you are. But that doesn't
648
00:39:36,238 --> 00:39:39,566
mean that those things don't exist for
649
00:39:39,718 --> 00:39:43,550
a whole plethora of other occupations. So I would say
650
00:39:43,670 --> 00:39:47,358
if you're somebody who's going into school, my classmates who have done the same
651
00:39:47,414 --> 00:39:51,082
thing, it's being able to leverage those skill sets to be
652
00:39:51,106 --> 00:39:54,762
able to present a model that
653
00:39:54,786 --> 00:39:58,538
they want to see without fabricating anything. Because you don't need
654
00:39:58,594 --> 00:40:02,010
to. You just really need to present in a way that they can
655
00:40:02,050 --> 00:40:05,850
understand what skills you have accumulated over your
656
00:40:05,890 --> 00:40:09,706
lifetime as a non traditional applicant. Ricky, what's
657
00:40:09,738 --> 00:40:13,466
your advice? When somebody's going into the application process, they're sitting
658
00:40:13,498 --> 00:40:17,060
down with amcas, getting ready to write out
659
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:20,672
their explanations or descriptions of their experiences.
660
00:40:20,816 --> 00:40:24,064
How do you do? How would you recommend to a prospective
661
00:40:24,112 --> 00:40:27,744
applicant to approach that and try to highlight
662
00:40:27,792 --> 00:40:31,552
these skills so that they, they seem to have some context, but
663
00:40:31,576 --> 00:40:35,424
also kind of everyone, everyone wants to stand out. What's your advice to
664
00:40:35,432 --> 00:40:39,184
them? Write your honest story. Write your honest
665
00:40:39,232 --> 00:40:42,864
story and write who you really are. So I think anybody listening to this podcast
666
00:40:42,912 --> 00:40:46,560
would probably assume that my personal statement was about being a special operations
667
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,412
medic and this crazy journey through special operations. There's two
668
00:40:50,436 --> 00:40:54,252
sentences in my personal statement on military special operations. The
669
00:40:54,276 --> 00:40:57,900
rest of my. The rest of my personal statement about my journey to medicine had
670
00:40:57,940 --> 00:41:01,196
nothing to do with the military, it had a lot to do with other things,
671
00:41:01,268 --> 00:41:04,972
and the military cemented that for me and gave me the avenue to get on
672
00:41:04,996 --> 00:41:08,588
a pipeline of being in medicine. And
673
00:41:08,724 --> 00:41:12,252
so I think that everybody should tell their truth on their
674
00:41:12,276 --> 00:41:15,730
application. I think Breton hit the nail on the head.
675
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:19,430
Admissions committees have read just like you, Christian. I've read thousands of
676
00:41:19,470 --> 00:41:22,822
applications. You know who's telling the truth and you know who's not, and you know
677
00:41:22,846 --> 00:41:26,630
who's fluffing a story, and you know who's underselling a story. So
678
00:41:26,670 --> 00:41:29,862
just tell the truth of what it was. If you worked under a physician in
679
00:41:29,886 --> 00:41:33,462
the past and they taught you a valuable skill, like, you
680
00:41:33,486 --> 00:41:37,334
know, sometimes it's, you know, sometimes more important to hold your patient's hand than
681
00:41:37,342 --> 00:41:41,190
it is to reset their iv. And that was impactful for you. Talk
682
00:41:41,230 --> 00:41:44,546
about it. Say, hey, I shadowed this position. We, you know, I learned
683
00:41:44,578 --> 00:41:48,114
dermatology. But the most important thing I took away from that was not the
684
00:41:48,122 --> 00:41:51,954
diagnostic skills. It was how to. How to talk to a patient with a
685
00:41:51,962 --> 00:41:55,682
different background than you. How to. How to, you know, overcome a
686
00:41:55,706 --> 00:41:59,266
language barrier. You learn that from your physician or your physician
687
00:41:59,298 --> 00:42:03,042
assistant or nurse practitioner. I think those things are way more important to discuss the
688
00:42:03,066 --> 00:42:05,710
honest, raw, deep details than it is to
689
00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:10,702
just think that they want to hear that you're already a doctor. I don't think
690
00:42:10,726 --> 00:42:14,330
any admissions team wants you to be a doctor already or come to doctor school.
691
00:42:14,630 --> 00:42:18,398
So tell them what you've been doing and how you've been preparing
692
00:42:18,414 --> 00:42:21,870
yourself to be able to succeed in a rigorous
693
00:42:21,950 --> 00:42:25,694
program, because that's what medical school is. But they'll teach you the rest of
694
00:42:25,702 --> 00:42:29,170
it. And when you're on the other side, you're a medical student.
695
00:42:29,750 --> 00:42:33,502
You know, throughout your. Your first year, you're like, oh, man, I'm still not good
696
00:42:33,526 --> 00:42:37,102
at writing patient notes. Like, I'm going to be so terrible in third year and
697
00:42:37,126 --> 00:42:39,502
in the second year. And you're like, I'm still. I'm getting better, but I'm still
698
00:42:39,526 --> 00:42:42,782
not that good. And then, you know, just yesterday, I was briefing attending during our
699
00:42:42,806 -->
00:42:46,494
clinical rotation, like, preparatory class thing that we do, and he
700
00:42:46,502 --> 00:42:49,102
was like, hey, you guys are getting a little better at note writing. Don't even
701
00:42:49,126 --> 00:42:51,534
stress about it, because third year, it's going to be totally different, and we're going
702
00:42:51,542 --> 00:42:54,238
to teach you how to do it then. So just keep practicing. And you. It's
703
00:42:54,254 --> 00:42:58,062
like you create all this false stress and false narratives that's just
704
00:42:58,086 --> 00:43:01,570
unnecessary. So tell your truth. Be yourself.
705
00:43:02,150 --> 00:43:05,662
Talk about what you're passionate about and then realize that you don't need to be
706
00:43:05,686 --> 00:43:09,472
a doctor yet to get into medical school. All right? People listening can't see
707
00:43:09,496 --> 00:43:12,768
that I'm emphatically shaking my head up and down the entire time you're
708
00:43:12,784 --> 00:43:16,160
talking and you're preaching.
709
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,080
Ricky, I think what. And I can kind of broad stroke this.
710
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,940
For most medical school admissions committees and people to read these applications,
711
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,400
we're looking for the. And we keep harping on these skills. And this is
712
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,664
why I was so excited to get you guys here, because you have a skill
713
00:43:31,712 --> 00:43:34,580
set that says. We keep saying transferable skills,
714
00:43:35,340 --> 00:43:38,660
but when we're reading these applications, we're looking for
715
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:42,480
characteristics and attributes that you. That
716
00:43:42,860 --> 00:43:46,452
are maybe to your core, something you've worked into
717
00:43:46,556 --> 00:43:49,840
or like you've grown. Like, you mentioned, like,
718
00:43:50,860 --> 00:43:54,244
is it more important to describe to admissions committees that you
719
00:43:54,412 --> 00:43:58,244
saw the dermatological, like, pathology,
720
00:43:58,372 --> 00:44:01,760
or you observed that the physician held their hand
721
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,936
when they had to tell them they have, you know, malignant
722
00:44:04,968 --> 00:44:08,504
melanoma. Right. And you saw empathy
723
00:44:08,632 --> 00:44:12,072
and that inspired you to be more empathetic. And you saw what
724
00:44:12,096 --> 00:44:15,800
empathy looks like and the verbal and non verbal cues
725
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,272
going on back and forth between patient and physician and.
726
00:44:19,456 --> 00:44:23,208
Or it was their communication skills that you were like, wow, they
727
00:44:23,264 --> 00:44:27,080
can connect with somebody who is of completely different background than
728
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,688
theirs. And it's that stuff that is
729
00:44:30,744 --> 00:44:33,980
the money in the med school application process.
730
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,080
I think we're not as impressed if, like you mentioned before, if
731
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:41,872
you can put a chest tube in or, you know, you can
732
00:44:41,896 --> 00:44:45,728
suture things. Like, not everybody has done that
733
00:44:45,784 --> 00:44:49,504
one, but we're. That's. That's our job in med school to train you how to
734
00:44:49,512 --> 00:44:52,672
do those things. Like, that's just gonna ha. Everybody's gonna be able to do that
735
00:44:52,696 --> 00:44:56,074
eventually. So I think people are. Med schools are less impressed
736
00:44:56,122 --> 00:44:59,190
by, like, you mentioned going through all the
737
00:45:00,290 --> 00:45:04,042
procedures you may have learned in your career if you had that
738
00:45:04,066 --> 00:45:07,882
opportunity. It always makes us a little nervous if we see somebody went to a
739
00:45:07,906 --> 00:45:11,658
foreign country and they were like, doing things they probably shouldn't
740
00:45:11,674 --> 00:45:15,002
be doing as well. I've seen that where people are kind of bragging about, like,
741
00:45:15,026 --> 00:45:17,866
well, I got to do this thing. Like, you're in
742
00:45:17,938 --> 00:45:20,000
undergraduate. You're not even
743
00:45:21,340 --> 00:45:24,996
a military member who. This is a part of your job doing this.
744
00:45:25,148 --> 00:45:28,932
So it's a very slippery slope if you start going down
745
00:45:28,956 --> 00:45:32,020
that road. But we really want to see these characteristics and
746
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:35,636
attributes. It brings your application to life. It really
747
00:45:35,708 --> 00:45:39,268
does. It makes what could be a very somewhat dry Application
748
00:45:39,364 --> 00:45:43,124
just breathe life into it and gets us excited. Like, gosh, they had the core
749
00:45:43,172 --> 00:45:46,878
skills to do this. So I would, I would also say the last
750
00:45:46,934 --> 00:45:49,742
though on, on that of telling your truth. I think one more thing that's really
751
00:45:49,766 --> 00:45:53,246
important. I see, see a lot of traditional applicants do this because we soft,
752
00:45:53,766 --> 00:45:56,302
like someone hits us up, we help them. Obviously we're not going to take them
753
00:45:56,326 --> 00:45:59,774
into our program, but you know, we give a lot of folks advice is
754
00:45:59,942 --> 00:46:02,890
don't compare like your experience
755
00:46:03,670 --> 00:46:07,502
to someone else's experience where you think like they
756
00:46:07,526 --> 00:46:10,782
might have had it harder than you growing up or you had it, you were
757
00:46:10,806 --> 00:46:14,382
more privileged than they weren't or like, like, don't, don't sell yourself
758
00:46:14,446 --> 00:46:18,270
short. Like, if you learned resilience through failure and
759
00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:22,142
it's only purely academic, like you've only, you failed a couple exams in
760
00:46:22,166 --> 00:46:25,950
your life and that's where you learned resiliency from. Tell that truth, that's fine. Like
761
00:46:25,990 -->
00:46:29,806
you learned how to bounce back academically and it still taught you something. Don't
762
00:46:29,838 --> 00:46:33,278
worry about that. There might be someone out there whose house burned down and that's
763
00:46:33,294 --> 00:46:37,086
where they were learned. It's not a competition of hard
764
00:46:37,158 --> 00:46:40,910
stories. And I see that a lot in younger kids when they reach
765
00:46:40,950 --> 00:46:44,094
out to us is they'll be like, well, you know, you guys gone through all
766
00:46:44,102 --> 00:46:47,802
this crazy stuff and I just, I just, I. It's not, I just, I
767
00:46:47,826 --> 00:46:50,986
wasn't ready to go to medical school when I was 22 years old. You're accomplishing
768
00:46:51,018 --> 00:46:54,650
something extremely impressive to me. I'm going to medical school.
769
00:46:54,690 --> 00:46:58,346
I'm 30 as a second year med student. I think Brian's smiling because
770
00:46:58,418 --> 00:47:00,730
I don't think he was ready to go to medical school at 22 years old
771
00:47:00,770 --> 00:47:04,394
either. So don't do this I just thing or
772
00:47:04,482 --> 00:47:07,962
you guys, that thing. Just tell your truth. The academic, the
773
00:47:07,986 --> 00:47:11,802
committees know what they're doing and you know, maybe you do need
774
00:47:11,826 --> 00:47:15,480
some community service hours, maybe need some shadowing hours. That makes sense. But. But
775
00:47:16,180 --> 00:47:19,836
I just don't like when the kids really sell themselves short
776
00:47:19,908 --> 00:47:23,612
when they don't need to. Yeah. And if I just want to add one thing
777
00:47:23,636 --> 00:47:27,132
to that as well, because Ricky kind of touched on it, made me think of
778
00:47:27,156 --> 00:47:30,600
it is we have a lot of our
779
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:34,476
scholars and a lot of people just generally in special
780
00:47:34,548 --> 00:47:38,348
operations that their pipeline looks something along
781
00:47:38,404 --> 00:47:41,904
the lines of they go to college for one to two years,
782
00:47:42,052 --> 00:47:45,832
they leave with a 1 to 2.0 GPA, they
783
00:47:45,856 --> 00:47:49,208
join the military, and then they go back to school some point
784
00:47:49,264 --> 00:47:53,000
later. And they are now mature enough
785
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,568
to be able to be academically successful and they'll pull
786
00:47:56,664 --> 00:48:00,424
4.0 GPAs and they go, you know, to Wharton. They go
787
00:48:00,432 --> 00:48:04,040
to all these schools and do all these great things. But I think that
788
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,912
a lot of the times people think that if you don't get a 4.0 in
789
00:48:07,936 --> 00:48:11,352
every class, then you're never going to go to medical. Like, if you go down
790
00:48:11,376 --> 00:48:13,340
the Reddit rabbit hole,
791
00:48:14,700 --> 00:48:18,484
nobody gets into medical school unless you have a 4. 0 from Harvard.
792
00:48:18,532 --> 00:48:22,036
You know, not true. I think that it's
793
00:48:22,068 --> 00:48:25,780
important in that sense as well of, in this comparison
794
00:48:25,860 --> 00:48:29,364
game of when you're giving somebody an actual
795
00:48:29,412 --> 00:48:32,708
holistic look, you want to see what their
796
00:48:32,764 --> 00:48:36,580
circumstances are, what they have overcome. And I think something like that,
797
00:48:36,620 --> 00:48:40,180
where if you did do poorly and then you come back and you
798
00:48:40,220 --> 00:48:43,630
show significant growth and competency,
799
00:48:43,820 --> 00:48:47,642
then you're showing the admissions committee that even though you
800
00:48:47,666 --> 00:48:51,322
don't, your cumulative is not a 4.0. It's probably
801
00:48:51,466 --> 00:48:55,146
way lower than you want it to be. You're not the same person that
802
00:48:55,218 --> 00:48:58,858
had this terrible undergraduate previously and you
803
00:48:58,914 --> 00:49:02,506
still are going to be a very successful medical student
804
00:49:02,538 --> 00:49:06,266
and later physician. The two things you guys have said
805
00:49:06,338 --> 00:49:09,828
have a great way to kind of wrap this up. And I, I,
806
00:49:09,994 --> 00:49:13,472
I'm glad you brought guys brought these things up because I don't want our
807
00:49:13,496 --> 00:49:16,912
listeners who are maybe in undergrad Christian brought in these two
808
00:49:16,936 --> 00:49:20,752
unicorns. And I'm never going to be able to compare myself to
809
00:49:20,776 --> 00:49:24,592
them. But what we spent the last about 20 minutes or so
810
00:49:24,616 --> 00:49:28,032
talking about is everybody has some skills
811
00:49:28,176 --> 00:49:31,888
that you have to start to in your story and bring it out
812
00:49:31,944 --> 00:49:35,504
and don't be afraid to kind of contextualize it for
813
00:49:35,592 --> 00:49:39,340
admissions committees when they're reading this and not to I don't want you,
814
00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:42,732
I'm not bringing guys on here to, to be just like the
815
00:49:42,756 --> 00:49:46,172
unicorns to like, ah, these guys are, they got
816
00:49:46,196 --> 00:49:50,028
100 acceptance rate in the last three cohorts. Like you got to be a special
817
00:49:50,084 --> 00:49:53,836
forces operator to get to med school. No, like
818
00:49:53,908 --> 00:49:57,132
you. But you have to, there are things that you have inside you that you
819
00:49:57,156 --> 00:50:00,364
need to express out. And you, you can do that
820
00:50:00,452 --> 00:50:04,300
and thoughtfully and tell, like you said,
821
00:50:04,340 --> 00:50:08,042
tell your story and tell the truth. And you
822
00:50:08,066 --> 00:50:11,882
know, that's a way to get the ball rolling in this crazy application
823
00:50:11,946 --> 00:50:15,722
process. I want to wrap things up with two things, guys, to
824
00:50:15,746 --> 00:50:18,922
kind of we talked about advice for
825
00:50:19,026 --> 00:50:22,762
prospective applicants. Ricky, what's your advice
826
00:50:22,826 -->
00:50:26,270
to any additional advice to our listeners
827
00:50:27,010 --> 00:50:29,390
from your perspective, your experiences?
828
00:50:30,130 --> 00:50:33,802
Yeah, one Thing when I was screening medics
829
00:50:33,866 --> 00:50:37,562
to come work at my unit, my special operations unit, I never assessed their
830
00:50:37,586 --> 00:50:41,226
medical skills. So that should tell you the same thing about medical
831
00:50:41,298 --> 00:50:45,050
school. That's why I harp on this topic so much, what I tested them
832
00:50:45,090 --> 00:50:48,922
on, because it was important. Our motto is night stalkers don't quit. I would put
833
00:50:48,946 --> 00:50:52,682
them in an impossible situation in our trauma lane that we put them through.
834
00:50:52,786 --> 00:50:56,634
So what, they would fail continuously and repeatedly. And I was looking to
835
00:50:56,642 --> 00:50:59,914
see if they're going to quit during their trauma lane because that was more
836
00:51:00,002 --> 00:51:03,578
important. And I knew I could teach them the medicine.
837
00:51:03,754 --> 00:51:07,338
And I think all the prospective students out there, when you're looking at medical
838
00:51:07,394 --> 00:51:10,842
school, one know one thing as someone who's older is going through it and we
839
00:51:10,866 --> 00:51:14,234
have folks in south sumper in their 40s who are going to be M1s.
840
00:51:14,402 --> 00:51:17,930
Medical school will always be there. If there is no real
841
00:51:17,970 --> 00:51:21,642
timeline, that's our all arbitrary. If
842
00:51:21,666 --> 00:51:24,394
you think you're not ready and you need to take time or you want to
843
00:51:24,402 --> 00:51:28,012
go experience life or the world and you're very young, it's okay to go do
844
00:51:28,036 --> 00:51:31,884
that. I encourage it. You'll have more life experience. You'll have more relatability
845
00:51:31,932 --> 00:51:35,772
to your patients. You'll have experienced, you know, paychecks and other
846
00:51:35,796 --> 00:51:39,212
things if you've never worked before. And all these other parts of life, they're important.
847
00:51:39,396 --> 00:51:42,120
So I encourage you to go live that if you want to.
848
00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:47,388
I would listen to trusted resources. If you're going to go to medical school, listen
849
00:51:47,404 --> 00:51:51,244
to this podcast. Christian is meeting with ADCOMs
850
00:51:51,292 --> 00:51:55,100
from all over the nation constantly. That is better information than
851
00:51:55,220 --> 00:51:59,052
the Reddit or the student doctor network channels. It's better information than
852
00:51:59,076 --> 00:52:02,412
your buddy who knows a guy who knows a guy who's in medical school.
853
00:52:02,516 --> 00:52:05,948
Okay, Listen to trust the resource. And then lastly, use the
854
00:52:06,004 --> 00:52:09,836
AAMC website and look at the core competencies of. They're telling
855
00:52:09,868 --> 00:52:13,132
you exactly what medical school admissions committees are looking for and how to be
856
00:52:13,156 --> 00:52:15,720
successful. That's like showing up to
857
00:52:16,740 --> 00:52:20,332
the 160th to try and be a night stalker, not knowing the night
858
00:52:20,356 --> 00:52:23,840
stalker creed or, you know, not going to Ranger regiment, not knowing
859
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,616
what their background was. Like, you would never prepare for a job interview
860
00:52:27,648 --> 00:52:31,472
without knowing about that company. And so I think when you're looking at
861
00:52:31,496 --> 00:52:35,072
medical, when you're looking at the. The AMCAs, look
862
00:52:35,096 --> 00:52:38,832
and see what they want physicians to physician applicants to
863
00:52:38,856 --> 00:52:42,624
look like and make sure you hit those pillars in your application. And
864
00:52:42,632 --> 00:52:45,728
there's a lot of different ways to do that. So that's my overall advice. And
865
00:52:45,784 --> 00:52:47,140
I'd pass it over to Brian.
866
00:52:49,410 --> 00:52:53,178
Yeah. The only thing that I would really add to that, which we semi touched
867
00:52:53,194 --> 00:52:56,874
on previously, is when you're telling your story, I
868
00:52:56,962 --> 00:53:00,650
would say focus on being okay
869
00:53:00,810 --> 00:53:04,602
and letting yourself be okay with opening up and being a little bit vulnerable.
870
00:53:04,666 --> 00:53:07,990
Because everybody has stuff in their life.
871
00:53:08,770 --> 00:53:12,442
For us, it's, you know, a lot of the silent professional stuff.
872
00:53:12,506 --> 00:53:15,994
What have you done that's hard to talk about, but
873
00:53:16,082 --> 00:53:19,802
whatever the struggles are that help make you who you are and it
874
00:53:19,826 --> 00:53:23,030
puts you in whatever position it is that you are currently in,
875
00:53:23,330 --> 00:53:26,470
being able to openly talk about that,
876
00:53:27,090 --> 00:53:30,922
I think only enhances your application and I think that it lets the
877
00:53:30,946 --> 00:53:34,442
admissions committees be able to see a lot more of
878
00:53:34,466 --> 00:53:37,994
you and a different side than just this
879
00:53:38,162 --> 00:53:41,882
academically superior student who, you know, has
880
00:53:41,906 --> 00:53:45,110
no faults. So I think that that's very important.
881
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:49,242
I've mentioned that before and I don't know, several episodes, but just
882
00:53:49,266 --> 00:53:52,030
about. You don't have to come across as perfect.
883
00:53:52,850 --> 00:53:56,522
You can show that you have areas of growth you've identified. I'm working on
884
00:53:56,546 --> 00:53:59,978
them. That's showing growth, mindset. Not like, I am
885
00:54:00,034 --> 00:54:03,830
absolutely perfect. I'm only 23 and I've got it all figured out.
886
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:07,910
And I don't know, there's really a person out there that is like that.
887
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:12,972
Guys, I. I've appreciated this conversation. Again, I
was
888
00:54:13,156 --> 00:54:16,956
really grateful to have you guys here. Last thing, I've been asking you guys
889
00:54:16,988 --> 00:54:20,764
all the questions. What questions do you have for me? What do
890
00:54:20,772 --> 00:54:24,396
you. Oh, yeah, I would say, you know, what. What challenges have you seen veteran
891
00:54:24,428 --> 00:54:27,040
applicants have when they, when they've applied?
892
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:32,188
Things you guys have touched on, and this may be this reluctance to
893
00:54:32,324 --> 00:54:36,140
share things that they don't feel like
894
00:54:36,180 --> 00:54:39,770
they should. Like that I. Maybe I should. I'm bragging about my
895
00:54:39,810 --> 00:54:42,870
service when it was just. That's my service. And, and
896
00:54:43,730 --> 00:54:47,578
that would be one thing. I like that we, we see stuff that they've
897
00:54:47,594 --> 00:54:51,390
done in their military career, but it's just the facts
898
00:54:52,210 --> 00:54:56,042
and not a lot of like the background or
899
00:54:56,066 --> 00:54:59,626
the context or any storytelling. Second thing
900
00:54:59,698 --> 00:55:03,070
would be, as I mentioned, right at the. Be at the beginning,
901
00:55:03,750 --> 00:55:07,534
you guys have a different language, the. The language of
902
00:55:07,542 --> 00:55:11,326
the military. And I've seen veterans
903
00:55:11,358 --> 00:55:14,478
when they write stuff. I don't know what some of this stuff is. Like when
904
00:55:14,534 --> 00:55:17,690
there are certain. There's certain phrases or
905
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:22,062
battalions or like, like kind of if. If you're a
906
00:55:22,086 --> 00:55:25,710
veteran and you're applying. And I think this also can apply to other People
907
00:55:25,750 --> 00:55:28,770
I like, they put like, their organization abbreviation,
908
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,624
and they don't tell you what the abbreviation stands for. I'm like, I don't know
909
00:55:32,632 --> 00:55:36,140
what AC Ms. Stands for. And.
910
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:40,256
And so be thoughtful and understanding. People that are reading
911
00:55:40,288 --> 00:55:43,920
this are not maybe from the military background or they.
912
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,200
You make sure you make things kind of clear and spell it out a little
913
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,992
bit. Dumb it down. If it's like your guys,
914
00:55:51,056 --> 00:55:54,208
you know, language. Dumb it down a little bit. And that can also be part
915
00:55:54,264 --> 00:55:57,840
of the bragging piece. Like when you say, I'm in a battalion and I was
916
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,440
in front of. You said 250 people. Had you not. Had you just said
917
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:05,200
it's. I'll say the word battalion, I would have been like, Is that
918
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,020
like nine guys? Or is that like 250 people
919
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,344
getting that. That level of context? Like, wow, it's a big deal. Like, I. I
920
00:56:13,352 --> 00:56:15,792
was a reader. Like, that sounds like a big deal. They're in charge of a
921
00:56:15,816 --> 00:56:19,520
lot of stuff and they're. So don't be afraid to kind of go into
922
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,382
some of those details and explain to people. I remember
923
00:56:23,446 --> 00:56:27,062
reading one application and the applicant said they
924
00:56:27,086 --> 00:56:30,610
received the Bronze Star, and
925
00:56:31,070 --> 00:56:34,534
I didn't know what that was. I had to go look it up. And so
926
00:56:34,542 --> 00:56:37,046
I think if you take. Go to the next step and just kind of say,
927
00:56:37,118 --> 00:56:40,646
I received the Bronze Star. It's awarded to people who've
928
00:56:40,678 --> 00:56:44,502
done acts of courage or that kind of thing. Go ahead
929
00:56:44,526 --> 00:56:47,568
and say that. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
930
00:56:47,664 --> 00:56:50,300
okay. I've seen. I've also seen,
931
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:55,376
unfortunately, on the awards thing, I've seen academic advisors tell personnel
932
00:56:55,408 --> 00:56:59,232
not to put their military awards unless it's a Bronze star or
933
00:56:59,256 --> 00:57:02,816
higher. And we've pushed back against that and
934
00:57:02,888 --> 00:57:05,792
said, hey, you, if you get an award, just explain what it was for. So
935
00:57:05,816 --> 00:57:09,616
if so. One thing that's pretty common is there's an Army Accommodation Medal. Navy Accommodation
936
00:57:09,648 --> 00:57:13,008
Medal. Usually it's given for leadership. So I tell folks, I'm like, hey, just say
937
00:57:13,064 --> 00:57:16,816
you've received six awards for leadership versus say, even call
938
00:57:16,888 --> 00:57:20,032
saying what the award name is. And that's kind of the advice we've given our
939
00:57:20,056 --> 00:57:23,888
applicants. So if you're a veteran out there and you have awards, read your citation
940
00:57:23,984 --> 00:57:27,680
and say that. So if your commander thought that you explained
941
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:31,392
great resilience and leadership during a training exercise, say, I received award. An
942
00:57:31,416 --> 00:57:35,232
award of. For leadership during a training exercise that had 400 people in it.
943
00:57:35,256 --> 00:57:37,710
You know? Yep. It's. Yep. Absolutely.
944
00:57:38,930 --> 00:57:42,730
Yeah. Listen, fellas, this has been highly enjoyable.
945
00:57:42,810 --> 00:57:46,138
I appreciate your time and your expertise and your
946
00:57:46,194 --> 00:57:49,866
insight and certainly your service. I mean, I think there anybody
947
00:57:49,898 --> 00:57:53,722
listening, this should have gratitude for the service you guys have given this
948
00:57:53,746 --> 00:57:57,482
country, and it's a level that very few have been able to
949
00:57:57,506 --> 00:58:01,290
do. So I'm. I'm thankful. And thanks again for taking
950
00:58:01,330 --> 00:58:04,640
some time today. Thanks for having us, brother. We appreciate it.
951
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:09,720
Appreciate it, Christian. Thank you. Bye.