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speaker-0: If we removed coach, trainer, author, speaker, troubleshooter, what do you know because you have lived all of
speaker-1: What a great question that is. Yeah, you you you snuck out Realistically, and it's that all joking aside, it is such a great question. But yeah, and my answer will be don't focus on things that don't matter. Yeah, we're we're we're so generalizing again. Yeah, we're we're we're so concerned about what everyone else thinks. Mm-hmm. But the reality is most people are going through some crap in their own life. And if they start throwing arrows at me, you or indeed anyone else, it's to deflect from them not dealing with their crap. So you are never gonna please everyone all the time. So don't waste energy trying. Be you. Be sincere and open and honest with the people that matter, and what you will find is you will start to attract the right people. Because they will see that you're authentic.
speaker-0: Welcome back to 33 Conversations. I'm your host, Michael Abney. This season is about becoming known for who you are becoming, not simply remembered for who you were. Today I'm joined by Dave Williams, a coach, a speaker, author, whose work spans management leadership, confidence, subject near and dear to my heart, and personal change. David spent decades becoming the person organizations trust to solve difficult problems. Then in 2015, his partner passed away unexpectedly, and life he knew changed without warning. That loss forced the different question What does it mean to lead yourself when experience, competence, and professional authority cannot protect you from what just happened? Dave is the author of Confidence for Life. But this conversation begins before with strategies. It begins with grief. It begins with the decision to stay. And the long work of learning how to live when control is no longer available. Dave, welcome to 33 Conversations. But before we even start, I want to talk about before that that December date in 2015. Like who were you? What did you understand about life and the world before December? twenty fifteen.
speaker-1: It's totally different to what it is now in so many ways, because Helen I at the time have been together about eight years, something along those lines, and I'd actually started a training business. So I had a few contracts and one of my main contracts was helping unemployed people get back into work. So there was four of us think it was in the team, and there's two trainers of which I was one of them, and we had the additional team as well. And Things were going great because because of the contract and because of the results that we were getting, that was going to be my most successful year as far as business owner was concerned. And things were really great. So Helen, my other half, or Hel as I call her, and she was producing some fantastic pieces of art. And yeah, you can say, well, you're being biased there, and I would appreciate that. I was, but so much so. that we were on the we were contacting the likes of galleries to display some of her work. Because Hell had a plan. This may well sound a bit weird, so I'm gonna try and describe this one for you. She she did this particular drawing and if you imagine a group of teddy bears that are all together and you've actually got one like coming into the picture like that. So coming in at forty five degrees and That was that particular Ted was known as Chester. So she'd actually produce that, and again, I've had so many people comment that how good the actual picture is. So the plan was for me to continue doing what I was doing and then potentially expand on that. But Hel was going to be doing more and more pictures. So based around Chester, the the main Teddy, it sounds really soppy and everything. But it was gonna be Chester on tour. So the next one was going to be Chester in Paris. Then it was gonna be Chester in Vegas and she was gonna do in an Elvis suit and and there was loads of different elements that she was going to be adding to this of doing, you know, so many different parts of the world. So there was a bit of interest that was being generated and then obviously things changed. And I haven't shared this that often, I I must admit, but so The beginning of that week I was actually looking for engagement rings. Now Hell didn't know that, because it was gonna be a surprise at Christmas. And then obviously things changed on the tenth of December. So you were no
speaker-0: for solving problems for major companies. What did that teach you about your own life?
speaker-1: It reiterated for me the fact that my core was how I could help people. Because I I'll go off on a slight tangent with this as well, because at the time when I was doing that and I was working with some major companies here in the UK, I didn't feel confident walking into the room and yet they were the ones that were looking for me to resolve their situation. So for me that was something that I ha that that I had to learn. So I grew into the role both physically but also emotionally as well. Because I'd always and we were talking about this before we started recording in many ways. The what we grew up with, with the values that were that we were taught, for me it was always respect your elders, respect the title. So here's little old me walking into a room of C-suite directors. And I'd put them on a pedestal because I was thinking, you guys, general term, not a gender term, you guys are the core of this business, mega successful business So all the answers. Mm, I soon found out no they didn't. They didn't know all the answers at all. And once I had a realization that I knew a lot more than what I gave myself credit for and could help these guys and Yeah, bear in mind they're making massive decisions that impacted, yeah, hundreds, thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people, that hey, yeah, this is my destiny. So and then it was something that I had to learn to grow into because again
speaker-0:
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What did confidence mean to you back then? Now you know, contrast that you we'll talk about the book later, but like since it's in the damn name, what did it mean to you back then pre? You know, like I g I got the I I I heard the part about, you know, how we were taught not to be braggadocious and boastful, those types of things because we didn't want anybody to think something, right? But what did it mean to you or what did it mean to young Dave back then?
speaker-1: Retrospectively, and we know that retrospective's a wonderful gift, isn't it? But just making it up as you go along.
speaker-0: That's why we're here.
speaker-1: But yeah, just making it up as as I went along because I felt and again, retrospective yeah, I wasn't as authentic then as what I am now. So I went into certain situations wearing my invisible suit of armour. So I was trying to protect myself and give an image to my audience, whether that's one to one or indeed one to many. Because I didn't want people to fire arrows at me and question what I was doing. Because if I did if that thing did happen, then there's every chance I would have just buckled because I just felt that, like I say, I was making it up as I was going along.
speaker-0: Just paint me just a little picture about what life was like with your partner. You call her Hell Helen, but you it was Hell. I
speaker-1: Yes.
speaker-0: got it. Just share a little bit about what was her favorite color and what did life feel like before when you guys were together?
speaker-1: Life was fun. yeah, we we laughed an awful lot. It's one of the things I I'm so honored to've had those experiences and hell was mad. I mean that in the nicest way, because all of a sudden i if she was just entering a room, she she'd actually enter the room doing ballet jumps. Yeah. J just total random things and she was a great mimic as well. And so you had to be careful at times of some of the things you said, because if not, you it was like having an echo because she'd actually repeat it and Yeah, but but it was. It wa it was always fun and everything was forward thinking. We we we didn't focus on the past at all. And that was one of the great things as far as Hell was concerned. From my perspective, was the fact she was she was so open hearted. She was warm, she was funny, she was my rock, she was my sounding board, and she was so talented in my opinion. Yeah, I I admire anyone that that can conjure a piece of art because my drawing, I s I I really struggled to do a convincing stick man, you know? So for anyone that can that can do a phenomenal piece of art, for me, you know, i i it's a case of yeah, massive respect. And yeah. By all means when we finish this I I can always email you a couple of the pictures if you wish. I would love
speaker-0: That I would love that. Yeah, certainly. Because I'm not you know, I'm doing a podcast, right? But part of me, I'm very intuitive. So I I've always sensed energies and so do you do you sense her around you? 'Cause I feel that she's around you a lot still.
speaker-1: Yeah, that that's a difficult one to comprehend, I I must admit. Occasionally I'll still talk to her. Yeah, and she she doesn't often reply, I hate I hasten to add, but my my philosophy was that when the situation happened and one of the ways that I turned things around for me was the fact that we are still doing things together. So we're still doing it as a partnership, it's just that she's witnessing everything through my eyes. So
speaker-0: You said you were open to this, but I still wanna ask you, are you comfortable tal talking about that day?
speaker-1: Of course, of course.
speaker-0: What happened?
speaker-1: Yeah, it w it was a fantastic day. I'm blessed that the way the day worked out. Let me explain. Normal day, as I was leaving to go off to work that day, the final thing that Hel said to me was I love you so much. And the reason why I'm blessed, there are so many people that they have important people in their lives pass away, but the last thing that they've said is something with anger or hatred and venom. But for me, it was pure love. So I'm so grateful for that because that's my yeah, my final memory, if you will. So yeah, I I I set off to go to work and the irony of all things, Hell was going from where we lived to go and meet her mum to take her mum to hospital. The reality is Hell ended up in hospital and her mum didn't. So I got a telephone call when I was in work and I'd got the room set up because I was doing a training session that particular day. And I got a telephone call and from my sister-in-law to tell me the news and everything. This is something I'm not proud of, I I hasten to add, but it was a case of for obvious reasons. I was in disbelief, I was in anger, I was yeah, emotionally raw. But I just walked into the room that had a room full of delegates. I picked up my easel, my pens and everything, and just said, My wife is my partner has just died. Sorry, the course is off. And I walked out. I say, I'm not proud of that, far from it, because I internalized everything. It was all about me. It wasn't about the delegates. I should have been able to handle it better. But at the time it was a total shock. And it was the first time I'd really had anyone close to me that passed away. So yeah, so the so the next thing that I knew, I'd made myself or I'd managed to get from where I was to the Royal Derby Hospital here in in i in the UK. The next thing I knew, I was in a room with hell. Although it'd been teary as I was driving over, that was when I just went. Yeah, all the emotions came out at that time because Seeing a being there, logic told me that yes, there's hell, there's hell lying there. But logic was also arguing with me as well, because she passed away at the age of 50, that this just couldn't happen. And what had happened as she was driving to collect her mum, she just had a massive heart attack. Totally unexpected. And it was just one of those things that
nature can be well, nature is wonderful. But it can also be cruel. Cruel in as much as it removed a young lady, the a gifted young lady that's put so much effort into helping others, she was removed from the planet. And for me, the way I justified that was the fact that she'd had her time on you know, on the planet Earth and she was needed elsewhere. So I don't know what anyone believes, obviously, whether yeah, you feel there's heaven or hell or anything along those lines, hell as in the place, not the name. But for for me it was a case of I was thinking, well, if there is a heaven, then she's gonna be up there creating havoc. But just making everyone laugh. So for me that wa that was a way that I found that I not justified it, but came to terms with the situation. And then for me then it was a case of focusing on Hell's family. and my family to support them as much as I could. And that's what I did realistically for the next what couple of months. Wow.
speaker-0: How how did that span afterwards you had spent your whole life solving a problem for others and then here's this problem? Or did it occur a problem?
speaker-1: It didn't occur as a problem as such. I was in total turmoil because I say for the first couple of months I was focusing on families. So that was easy. And the reason why I frame it that way is I wasn't thinking about me. And for anyone that's going through this, big mistake. Because you need to focus on the most important person and that's you. So what had happened is I was staying like I say, different families and everything. And then it was where in twenty sixteen I went back to our apartment, and that was when the reality started to hit me. And because I was in that situation and it was the first time I'd been on my own for a l a good couple of months, then that was when I started to think and start to process things and have the realization of how life had changed. I had no idea what was going to be happening, and bear in mind This happened hell passed away on the tenth of December in twenty fifteen. We're talking of February now. I hadn't worked in during that time. Admittedly we had the Christmas period, but I hadn't done any work, so I had no income. So realistically, I was on the verge of I pretty much lost the business because I had no appetite for it whatsoever at that particular time. I obviously lost hell. I at that time I was thinking that I'd lost my future. And I virtually lost the place where I was stopping in as well. So all of a sudden, everything just it was as if I was carrying the weight of the world on my shoulders at that time. But I had no idea as to what direction I was going to be heading in. So I was just like, I'll use the term that a client used when I was arching him. He said, it's just like being in a vortex. And wherever you look, you just can't see a door out. And that's what I was like at that particular time. When did
speaker-0: That start to happen.
speaker-1: it was the February evening in
twenty sixteen and I was just sat in the i in the lounge and didn't have the lights on, so it was evening, didn't have the lights on or anything. I knew that the bookcase was in that corner and the TV was in that corner, but I couldn't see them this evening because the darkness that I was feeling inside was just matching the darkness of the non lit room. And then I don't know what happened next. It could have been seconds, it could have been minutes. And that was the my light bulb moment, if you will, that I knew I needed to make a decision. And the decision was either to carry on with that particular action, and obviously I wouldn't be around here now, or to make the decision to change. And obviously that's what I did. So I knew I wasn't in a good place. And I went searching online for strategies to help me. And I found loads of strategies. There's loads of stuff out there, isn't there? But they didn't help me. So I started creating my own strategies that I started to work. It was a slow process to start off with. But I was finding that I was starting to build some momentum. And then I started sharing these particular strategies with other people, and they were starting to get great results, but in a shorter space of time. Because we've got to try things out ourselves first, haven't we? And Yeah, that that's what worked for me. And it brought me out of my dark side. And the realization I had at the time was the fact that, as I mentioned a bit earlier on, I'd been internalizing everything. I'd made it all about me. What was I going to do? I can't do this and all of those different things, instead of right, how can I help others? And as soon as I had that change of thought process to take it off me to focus on other people. That's when the momentum started to build massively. So that's what I did.
speaker-0: That moment that you were there and you you said you decided, like what was that? What did you what were you aware of? Because it was such a powerful moment. Does any of that relate that you felt like that? Maybe you were like, do you re how was that experience? Did you feel like you were in a box that you couldn't get out of? And moving and moving forward, what was the thing that was trying to die then, not your body? Like, have you seen that? in yourself? What was the part of you that was trying to die?
speaker-1: It i it's a male thing, isn't it? In i in as much as we are the providers, you know, if you go back to prehistoric man and our lizard brain and everything, you know, and it's a case of yeah, banging on the chest and all of that and I just felt so unmasculine. I felt that I was a burden for everyone. I felt that I let people down, including hell. And when I knew that I had to make that decision and have that realization, one of the things that helped me was the fact of and I was talking to Hel an awful lot at the time. Yeah. If Hell was here now, what would she say or what would she do? And I know that she would have slapped me something rotten for having those thoughts. Yeah. Because w we were so philosophical about so many different things, and I'm sure she would have turned round and said Yeah, stop being so stupid. Okay. I'm not with you. But now's your time. Yeah, so so go and make a difference. Which is something that we'd been you know on our journey to do for the previous four or five years, something along those lines. So yeah, she would you know she would have given me a good slapping. not in a nasty way, but and she would have done. And when I had that realization that you know, th the love of my life I'd be letting her down. That became my biggest driver. Yeah, yeah, you're exactly right. And the thing was, I didn't leave it behind. I thought I had, but I hadn't. So what I did it's to to move forward, I in effect put on a persona. So inside I was really challenged with everything and I'd booked myself to go on the courts. And I was in the Midlands here in the UK and the course was in London. And I think it was the day before, possibly the day of, can't recall now, I was due to go down there. I just had massive anxiety attack and I couldn't leave the front door. Now, so how can I go and coach other people when I can't even look after myself? Yeah. So I got in touch with the people that were arranging the course and they were fantastic. They they really were. They said, right, what can we do? No problem. Get on to the next one. And they both got in touch with me individually. they just gave me a call, just checking in, what can we do? And all of those things. And for me, I'd never had that. So for me, all of a sudden I I felt valued and in view of the decisions that I made and then someone was taking an interest in me, then all of a sudden I thought, I've got more to give here. Because if someone that I don't know is taking time out of their life to invest it in ringing me, there's got to be something in this. So automatically I had the trust in them. So the next time that the course came up, I managed to get down there. And I must admit, I was shaking as I went in. The two-day course was great. fantastic. It was certainly what I needed because I forced myself at the time. I went and sat right on the front row, right in front of the speakers, because I thought I'm gonna get as much out of this as I can. Because if I'd have sat at the back, there's every chance I would have just got up, walked back to the car, and set off home. Yeah. So and the real catalyst was I was going around thinking I've managed to deal with this. Yeah, life's great. Life's wonderful. A gentleman, a coach that I met on that particular course, he was passing a couple of months later. He we arranged that he was gonna call in for a cup of coffee. Now that cup of coffee lasted for four hours. The cup wasn't that big. It's just that we started talking, and he was the catalyst that changed everything for me. Because he asked me the question because we We were talking about Hell and the
situation, and he asked me the question, let me ask you, what was the good to come out of Helen's passing? Now I must admit, at the time, I just wanted to throw him out the window. I felt so hurt by that. I put on a defense and that's a good question, and all of that BS and everything. But deep down I was hurting with that. So he went and yeah, cracked on with everything. The next two days I was basically in bed for both days and I was just an emotional wreck. But the realization was that that was the best question that anyone could have asked me. Because while I was dealing with my emotions for the next couple of days, I also had that realization that hell was needed elsewhere. Yeah. Hell's time to have an impact on the planet. Yeah, that was now over. But she's passed the baton to me. Now I can't Progress anywhere with that button if I stay in bed and feel sorry for myself. So that was when I relaunched myself, so to speak. I shook off an awful lot of the chains, the invisible chains that had been behind me. And we spoke about the vortex a little bit earlier on. Now I had some direction of what I could do moving forward. And that was the catalyst that changed everything. And it was that question. So what's the good to come out of Helen's passing? A harsh question, but the right one. Absolutely.
speaker-0: You like that was the that was your trigger that got tapped and you unraveled all of that in that that couple of days. Was that the beginning of when the the spark for the book in your next direction was it all really kind of like from that moment?
speaker-1: It i it was the spark, yes, because the course that I've been on it it was to become a coach. And I said, the course was great. Went on to do an additional course with them. And the rest of it came afterwards really, because my niche when I first started off was anxiety and depression. That's a surprise, isn't it? Because I've been living there. Yeah. So as one of the tutors said, she said the advantage that you've got is you've got lived experience. And you didn't need to learn it from a book. And I thought, yeah, that's so true. So I'd actually worked in management leadership with different organizations. As an employee, I'd gone into troubleshoot with different organizations and they're having challenges. And it's not just the obvious stuff. It's not just your communication. It's not just staffing challenges. They as individuals are having challenges. So I thought, right, okay. What can I do to combine the two? And that's what I started doing. So when I was going into organizations, then one of the first things that I'd do is work on them. So get them to a better state or a peak state, because once people do that, then the reality is everything else that you then share is easier to absorb. Yeah. And that was the real thing that changed. And once I'd done one or two of those particular I'll say sessions, it could have been one day, two day week or whatever it was. So what what when I'd
done then, then the confidence rose, but not through an artificial confidence like I had prior to all of these things happening. It was an authentic confidence. So it was a case of because I had the coaching skills behind me as well. I it didn't bother me to go into a room and ask a difficult question because I don't ask to put people on the spot for to get gratification. I as you mentioned a bit earlier on, y when we're emotionally attached, we just feel this is the right thing to say or do. So I don't have an issue with doing that and calling people out. So, you know, it may well be a case of, you know, C suite or whatever in front of it and say, right, yeah, so what's the situation with this? And I'll go X, Y, and Z. And in a lot of instances, not all, I also hasten to add, but in a lot of instances, the reply that you get is it's as if it's been rehearsed for the last five years. And you can just sense the can you smell that, you know? So it's a case of that's great. Thanks for sharing that. Let me ask you a question. What's the truth? What's really going on? And all of a sudden you you will get the people go, and they're having the realization that they can't get away with the usual BS. So I don't have an issue with doing that because I'm doing it to help them. Mm-hmm. I remember working with a set of C suites, obviously some years ago. It was pre-COVID actually. And I had a message from the HR manager at the time that then went on to be the HR director. And anyone watching Body Language know I've got an itch, it's not anything adverse. and she got a message and said, My God, what did you do with my directors? Because they're different people now. And it's a case of you just ask the right questions. Questions that are going to challenge them. Because we all have behavior patterns, and the only way that we're going to really improve is if we change those patterns. So asking the right questions, getting them to think about what they do and what they could do better. And that's how results really happen. And then I I'm sort of giving you a long answer, hopefully, to your question here. And then what happened and it started during COVID and progressed quite a while after COVID. That most of the personal clients or inquiries that were coming through to myself were for confidence. So great, no problem. One-to-one and I I ended up working with people in the US, Israel, mainland Europe, obviously here in the UK, Canada. So they're they were all having the same challenges. And it was to do with confidence. So I thought, great, okay, so They got terrific results again, not because I'm so special, it's just the fact that they had the change, they had the transformation, they did the work, they just had a few questions asked of. And it's a case of right, okay, I can carry on doing this, which is great. However, I can only do one person at a time. The thing is that's not maximizing my time to be able to impact as many people as I can. So that's when the
book came to the fore. So I've decided to do to write the book. Now, if there's any awesome out there, first of all, many congratulations. If there's any potential awesors out there, do not do what I did. Okay? Because I did it all in four weeks. Madness. Absolute madness. But the reason being was I wanted to get it all sorted because I wanted to have the launch of on Helen's birthday. So it was a way for me to be able to honour Helen because if that hadn't have happened, I wouldn't have been where I was at that time. Yeah. So so please to say that reached number one in because on Amazon and seven categories at the time. And I haven't don't promote it that much, but I did for the following year and it reached number one on the first anniversary as well. So you know, f for me, I say, as a way of being able to honor Hell for sharing a percentage of her life with me, for helping me become the person that I am, then you know, it it it's the least that I can do as far as hell is concerned. But arguably more importantly, it's getting information into more people's hands.
speaker-0: What what does competence now that you've written it, been through all of those experiences, what's today's version? What's his definition or meaning or how does competence live for you now?
speaker-1: Just do it. And and for me it's a case, life is all about experiences. And my philosophy is every morning when I get up, my goal is to influence one person a day. When I do that, it's a good day. My best goal is to influence loads of people during the day. And in which case that's an excellent day. So if I can do it with a book, with a podcast, with just a conversation. Even just walking down the high street with a smile, then for me, that fills me up. That fulfills me and helps me reaff excuse me, sorry, reaffirm that that's why I'm on the planet to help other people improve their lives. Because by doing that, they're going to get the results that they want. And when I find out they've got the results that they want, that helps me get the results that I want. And I say, the main thing is fulfillment and contribution. So it's yeah, i i i i it it's a circle of life, if you will. Yeah. But it's one that I feel anyway. We create our energy because it's all about enjoying, it's about giving, it's about making the most of what we've got. Because I've done that consistently, I'm congruent with what I do. You know, what you see now, this is me normally. Yeah, I say normally. Occasionally I sleep, so I'm not quite this energetic. But th this is my normal persona. th this is my core because there are so many people that are challenged at the moment and they they're desperate for just an ounce of energy. So yeah, please have some of mine. I've got loads to spare because I can regenerate it whenever I want. So have some of mine. If it if it's gonna help you. Yeah, move to your next level, whatever that level may be, then please take it. Yeah, with love from me. What I will say is for for for people that are watching and listening to this, that never forget how special and unique you are. You know, we're all put on the planet for a particular reason. We don't know what that reason is. We add value and we decide the type of value that we're going to add, whether we're going to help improve other people. Or indeed whether we're going to drag them down. The world is in need of quality leaders at the moment. We we're not getting them from politics. Yeah, wherever you are, certainly in the Western world anyway, we're certainly not getting them from there. So the way that the world, the way that society is going to get better is you and I. We're going to be the difference for the next generations coming through. So wouldn't it make sense to actually share the gifts that we have, the experiences that we have? with other people to help improve their life.
speaker-0: Wave, what I'm carrying from the conversation is that confidence is not a guarantee that life will cooperate. It may be the relationship that we build with ourselves when it does not. Your story does not make the loss temporary. It does not turn grief into a problem that can be solved. What it offers is more of an honest form of agency, the possibility of choosing the next step without pretending we chose the pain. And the understanding that will first decision still need support, practice, and time to gain momentum. Thank you for trusting us with the life you had, the period where you chose to stay. And thank you for staying. And the leader that you're still becoming. Everyone, you've been listening to 33 Conversations. I'm Michael Abney. Until next time, keep following what's becoming clear in your own life. And we will see you all on the next one. Bye, everyone.