Transkrip lengkap untuk Section 232 Tariffs Explained: What Developers, Corporates, and PPA Buyers Need to Know

application of the rule and how we'll, we'll manage through it. 05:25.835 --> 05:30.345 So anything we talk about further to this is obviously 05:30.845 --> 05:34.663 subject to change. So, okay, yeah, that makes, that makes sense. So, um, 05:35.305 --> 05:38.820 December 2026, I think I got from you, 05:38.836 --> 05:43.218 was the sort of the implementation date. And basically 05:43.234 --> 05:47.118 what we're kind of saying is anything that's ordered in after that date you 05:47.618 --> 05:51.594 know, subject to these tariffs, whether it's, you know, however many cents 05:52.094 --> 05:55.957 per watt for, for cells and inverters and, and, or for the actual, 05:56.229 --> 05:59.550 uh, raw materials. And that's going to have an impact going 05:59.678 --> 06:03.175 forward because it sounds like we've implied that, um, 06:03.448 --> 06:07.153 people have tried to go as far as they can prior to that date, 06:07.218 --> 06:11.148 you know, within anti-stockpiling and, and, and, you know, 06:11.324 --> 06:13.971 volume limits and everything else to get what they can. 06:14.613 --> 06:17.071 Potentially. But obviously after that, then, 06:17.729 --> 06:21.327 um, you know, that's going to bite. That's going to be, as you said, 06:21.745 --> 06:25.696 an increased cost. So how do you think 06:25.760 --> 06:29.326 that is going to impact developers who obviously are 06:29.695 --> 06:32.956 working on solar projects? I mean, you know, is it— 06:33.165 --> 06:36.072 is it— it's going to make them more expensive? Do you think it might also 06:36.136 --> 06:39.670 shift things to other technologies, or does it just 06:40.170 --> 06:44.350 feed through into the cost? Or I guess there are lots of things Yeah, 06:44.528 --> 06:48.689 I think for utility-scale developers, the first 06:49.189 --> 06:53.108 effect is just a change in the equipment budget, right? So they may have 06:54.131 --> 06:57.493 supply chains already in place. They may have panels and cells already, 06:58.240 --> 07:02.216 you know, in stock. So for a developer 07:02.716 --> 07:05.383 with modules already in the US, 07:07.650 --> 07:11.506 firm supply agreement, Um, they may 07:11.619 --> 07:15.451 have a different exposure than a developer who's trying to 07:15.951 --> 07:21.645 import them for a 2027 delivery, right? And so the 07:22.145 --> 07:24.622 important thing to keep in mind is, as we talk through any of this, 07:24.800 --> 07:29.067 is each project is going to be affected differently, 07:29.421 --> 07:32.757 right, on whether or not there 07:33.208 --> 07:37.156 have been materials that have already been bought for that project 07:37.161 --> 07:40.272 Or not. And so there's 07:40.772 --> 07:44.398 not going to be a one-size-fits-all of like, what's the total 07:44.898 --> 07:48.814 impact, right? It's going to be developer-specific, what their supply 07:49.314 --> 07:51.693 chain looks like, what their project looks like, 07:53.360 --> 07:56.765 you know, kind of what their

contracts are. And so if they're 07:57.265 --> 07:59.622 looking at their development model, right, 08:01.931 --> 08:05.309 if the equipment costs rise, they have to ask whether 08:05.341 --> 08:08.744 the project can absorb that increase through, 08:09.755 --> 08:13.222 you know, a contingency, a lower return, a different equipment 08:13.722 --> 08:17.619 choice, or a higher PPA price, right? And if the answer 08:18.119 --> 08:21.503 is no, then they may need to redesign the project 08:21.985 --> 08:25.436 or delay it, right? So that's sort of how 08:25.500 --> 08:28.854 they're having to manage this process right now is, what do I 08:29.354 --> 08:31.004 have? Within the rules? 08:32.400 --> 08:36.330 What's it allocated to? And then what's the 08:36.830 --> 08:40.581 maturity of sort of these projects? Because in a lot of cases, right, a project 08:40.646 --> 08:43.341 can't go forward until there's an off-taker. So, 08:44.656 --> 08:47.351 you know, that, that kind of becomes, becomes an issue, 08:47.784 --> 08:50.528 right? They may not have ordered anything at this point, 08:50.993 --> 08:53.447 um, and they may have, uh, 08:53.993 --> 08:56.785 supply chain agreements where Uh, 08:57.010 --> 09:00.846 they're not necessarily immune to the supplier saying, 09:00.943 --> 09:04.780 well, you're not ready to take this allocation, someone else will. 09:05.679 --> 09:09.451 And therefore, you know, those parts go away and 09:09.531 --> 09:12.437 they have to regroup. So, um, 09:12.517 --> 09:16.017 that's, that's really, you know, the issue for developers 09:16.049 --> 09:19.629 right now, you know, really kind of looking at their risk allocation, 09:19.661 --> 09:25.083 studying their EPC contracts, their equipment 09:25.583 --> 09:29.008 agreements, um, and then ultimately 09:29.024 --> 09:32.085 how they, they manage that through a contract with an off-taker. 09:33.511 --> 09:36.010 Yeah, that makes sense. Managing that risk. Yeah, 09:36.571 --> 09:39.744 and that's interesting because I— it— there are complex ways 09:39.856 --> 09:42.820 of looking at, at that. And I think the one thing that it's drawn me 09:43.320 --> 09:47.515 to is, um, thinking about my own analysis geographically 09:48.332 --> 09:51.843 of pricing in, in in the US, 09:52.502 --> 09:56.984 there are some places where pricing 09:57.097 --> 10:00.551 is lower and some is higher already. Yeah, and, and that 10:01.051 --> 10:04.353 can be affected by, by many things, um, you know, things like capacity 10:04.853 --> 10:08.528 factors. Clearly the yields are better in sunnier places than, than, than, 10:08.706 --> 10:10.629 you know, in some locations than others, um, 10:12.680 --> 10:15.878 connection costs and, and, and all sorts of other things. 10:16.867 --> 10:20.340 So I imagine, and I'm not sure, I'd be interested in your view on this, 10:20.501 --> 10:24.135 I imagine there might be some locations and geographical 10:24.184 --> 10:28.922 areas where the price shift 10:29.036 --> 10:32.276 or the absorption of that change might 10:32.292 --> 10:35.919 be easier than other locations where you might 10:36.419 --> 10:39.848 kind of say, well, it's already maybe marginal here, it's gonna, you know, 10:40.186 --> 10:43.682 there's not a lot we can do, it could push, just push that price 10:43.896 --> 10:47.914 out, it's gonna make it look much worse, where there might be other uh, 10:48.042 --> 10:50.993 other areas where I said, yeah, yeah, it's going to shift the price, but the 10:51.009 --> 10:53.735 yields are good and there are, there are other options and there's this, you know, 10:54.280 --> 10:58.225 and it's gonna not make such a big difference. Is that, is that 10:58.289 --> 11:01.272 reasonable conclusion, do you think? Yeah, 11:01.336 --> 11:04.832 I think, I think if you're talking in terms of like how much margin, 11:05.826 --> 11:09.178 uh, a developer might have in a specific geography, 11:09.867 --> 11:13.684 certainly that's applicable. I think more importantly you have to look at it 11:14.184 --> 11:17.597 in terms of instead of looking at raw percentages, right, 11:17.613 --> 11:21.276 to your point, let's say an ERCOT project is 11:21.389 --> 11:24.990 $50 and there's a $5 movement as a result of tariffs, 11:25.006 --> 11:28.561 that's 10%. So somebody said, well, there's a 10% impact. 11:28.868 --> 11:32.163 Okay, in a PJM project where 11:32.179 --> 11:34.371 it's the same materials, right, 11:35.883 --> 11:38.941 and that PJM project starts at $80 because, uh, 11:40.762 --> 11:44.168 The land cost is more expensive, the interconnection cost is more 11:44.200 --> 11:47.879 expensive, right? Your impact is obviously 11:47.911 --> 11:51.986 less, right? So it's just important when you're talking in raw dollars 11:52.099 --> 11:55.397 versus percentage change, right, that that will 11:55.897 --> 12:00.085 vary across geographies. But yeah, you're correct in that, like, there may be projects 12:00.585 --> 12:04.384 that may be able to absorb, you know, more of 12:04.884 --> 12:08.085 this from a developer standpoint. Than others, depending on 12:08.102 --> 12:11.938 kind of the maturity of the project or, or the developer's 12:11.954 --> 12:15.920 intent. Yeah, and I think I— that makes sense. 12:16.048 --> 12:19.821 And I was thinking, you know, if the yield per kilowatt, 12:19.917 --> 12:23.321 you know, per panel is higher, if the panel 12:23.353 --> 12:25.633 costs 10% more, 12:26.885 --> 12:30.272 if the yield is higher, you've got that 10% spread 12:30.772 --> 12:34.189 over more units of production. So the unit price doesn't need to 12:34.689 --> 12:38.275 go up as much as well. So It might— my brain 12:38.371 --> 12:41.689 was like, well, that might favor areas where, 12:42.156 --> 12:45.371 like in California and Texas and so on, where it's very sunny 12:46.149 --> 12:47.938 and you already see very high yields. 12:49.980 --> 12:55.479 Whereas— I think you're right. Yeah. Which is

weirdly 12:56.078 --> 13:00.126 almost not what you want because actually they're already very heavily subscribed 13:00.626 --> 13:03.817 for solar because they're ideal locations. But that's another thing. 13:05.498 --> 13:08.546 So what, having talked about that, 13:08.562 --> 13:11.754 you know, there's going to be price shift. Do you have any views on 13:12.254 --> 13:16.102 how the, how much the prices might shift? We talked about, you know, clearly they're 13:16.602 --> 13:20.498 going to go up. Have you got any sort of views about 13:20.998 --> 13:24.172 where they might go? Yeah, I think if we were to paint with a broad 13:24.204 --> 13:28.039 brush, we've, we've heard from some like, 13:28.359 --> 13:32.227 uh, manufacturers of what their range 13:32.727 --> 13:35.517 is. I think it's anywhere from 2% to 7%. 13:35.902 --> 13:39.658 I've seen some developers already 13:39.690 --> 13:44.409 change their price upwards of 12%, 13:44.425 --> 13:47.892 right? And, and they said it's a result 13:48.392 --> 13:52.595 of the tariffs. Now, maybe they're baking in even more unknown risk into that than 13:53.095 --> 13:57.201 what the actual impact is. I'm sure a lot of developers are still kind 13:57.701 --> 14:01.186 of combing through what their agreements are. To figure out exact impacts. 14:01.283 --> 14:05.113 So, you know, there's known— there's known risk impacts, there's unknown 14:05.209 --> 14:09.221 risks and impacts. I think if you were to paint with a broad brush across, 14:09.594 --> 14:11.798 um, you know, 14:13.079 --> 14:16.333 if you were to give a dollar figure, um, 14:17.045 --> 14:19.326 you're probably looking at, you know, 14:20.038 --> 14:23.500 $2 to $5 megawatt-hour would be 14:24.000 --> 14:26.925 the actual impact to the developers. 14:27.102 --> 14:30.586 Now, again, that's— I don't have insight into everyone's 14:30.650 --> 14:33.990 portfolio. This is just sort of, um, 14:34.809 --> 14:37.635 you know, back-of-the-envelope math. Um, 14:38.213 --> 14:41.970 so, you know, we'll see in the coming months as we get refreshed 14:42.470 --> 14:46.691 pricing from developers and we can kind of backtest what individual 14:46.707 --> 14:50.046 projects were prior. There's obviously other things 14:50.159 --> 14:53.370 that are moving total price too, right? 14:53.530 --> 14:58.073 So, um, you know, a $50 PPA today becomes 14:58.362 --> 15:01.557 $60 next week, and maybe $5 of it 15:02.057 --> 15:05.747 is because of tariffs and $5 is because of something else. 15:05.875 --> 15:09.680 But we'll at least directionally have an idea. I think 15:10.226 --> 15:14.480 just overall though, yes, pricing will increase 15:14.980 --> 15:17.675 and will increase in pretty much every market as a result of this. 15:18.894 --> 15:21.220 Yeah, and that's really interesting. I think, uh, 15:22.359 --> 15:26.097 it's interesting to get that view of, of the shift. I think 15:26.597 --> 15:29.851 that's, that's obviously helpful for our modeling, and then we'll look at it again 15:30.445 --> 15:33.894 in, in more detail, and we'll get into that as part of the modeling we're 15:34.394 --> 15:37.776 doing in, in various, uh, ISOs. I also think 15:38.210 --> 15:41.498 that you, you've hit another thing on the head, is that there's all sorts 15:41.998 --> 15:45.267 of other things that are shifting, um, almost, you know, 15:45.363 --> 15:49.866 almost constantly, uh, in terms of other costs 15:49.994 --> 15:53.263 that developers— it's not just about buying panels and inverters, 15:53.375 --> 15:56.244 you know, there's connection costs, there's labour costs, there's groundworks, 15:56.821 --> 16:00.762 and ultimately this— they're borrowing that, that money potentially, 16:00.971 --> 16:04.544 or the return on your own equity or whatever you've got, 16:04.833 --> 16:07.893 and all of those things. And those things are shifting quite radically, 16:08.262 --> 16:11.950 you know, at times. And then you get 16:12.450 --> 16:15.821 into all the commercial bits and pieces about, well, you know, what's the scarcity and, 16:16.223 --> 16:19.516 and, you know, how aggressively are we going to look at that project and all 16:20.016 --> 16:23.322 those things. I think so. Actually, there's this— it's a time 16:23.371 --> 16:26.969 when I suspect that, um, I'll probably start 16:27.469 --> 16:30.583 chewing my pencil harder because the volatility around 16:31.083 --> 16:34.743 the forecasting is— we've already seen increases in some areas, 16:34.775 --> 16:38.614 and I think we'll potentially see more as all of these changes work 16:39.114 --> 16:42.900 through. Yeah, and if you look at sort of the third-party forecasts 16:43.400 --> 16:46.736 and models, um, you know, ERCOT obviously 16:47.236 --> 16:51.069 has been the hottest market. It tends to model well from a net present value 16:51.569 --> 16:55.403 perspective. And, you know, during the last runs 16:55.903 --> 16:58.934 of most models, it incorporated this, um, 16:59.817 --> 17:03.204 large increase in AI buildout, right? So think 17:03.704 --> 17:06.880 of it in terms of lots of power consumption. So the value of the 17:07.380 --> 17:11.605 power from a supply-demand standpoint becomes more 17:11.653 --> 17:15.373 valuable further out on the curve. So those 17:15.486 --> 17:18.186 NPVs were pulled up by, let's say, $1, 17:18.781 --> 17:21.802 $2 for a lot of projects. 17:22.558 --> 17:25.671 Now you've got sort of the opposite 17:25.768 --> 17:29.174 happening where, let's say, 17:29.354 --> 17:32.539 it's a $4 increase to a PPA price. 17:34.191 --> 17:37.613 And you want to pull that back to a net 17:38.113 --> 17:40.451 present value, that's maybe $2. 17:42.172 --> 17:45.551 And your models the next time may incorporate some 17:45.599 --> 17:49.334 sort of clawback in that AI demand just because of the 17:49.463 --> 17:52.948 public backlash that's currently taking place, or the, 17:54.042 --> 17:57.341 uh, the length of time it's taken for

some of this stuff 17:57.841 --> 18:01.583 to get online. So what you might do is take a 18:02.083 --> 18:05.824 big cluster of projects that had a net present value 18:05.840 --> 18:09.358 in the positive for corporates, and it moves them more neutral 18:09.858 --> 18:13.052 or negative. And then that becomes potentially a challenge when you're 18:13.552 --> 18:17.084 trying to sell to corporates. Now, will the hyperscalers continue 18:17.584 --> 18:20.955 to buy these? Absolutely. Right. It's become 18:21.164 --> 18:24.055 a necessity for them. But for the average corporate, 18:25.310 --> 18:29.319 Um, between potential model changes next go-around and every 18:29.819 --> 18:33.458 dollar or 2 here moving it closer to zero or a negative NPV, 18:34.332 --> 18:37.551 um, that introduces some challenges of selling 18:37.583 --> 18:41.077 to corporates or corporates pivoting things like REC strips. 18:42.620 --> 18:46.134 Yeah, and you know what, Kenny, you've done it again, because what you've highlighted 18:46.634 --> 18:48.855 there is actually there's 2 sides to the equation. 18:50.222 --> 18:53.512 And I kind of get what you're saying because of obviously the 18:54.012 --> 18:58.230 way, you know, the shifts in NPVs. But it 18:58.310 --> 19:02.065 is important to remember the headline price of a PPA is 19:02.097 --> 19:06.206 only half of the story because actually you're looking at 19:06.334 --> 19:09.094 what that means in terms of value. 19:10.025 --> 19:13.700 And that, you know, that is different for everybody. 19:14.358 --> 19:17.776 I think we've seen a shift towards dare 19:17.840 --> 19:21.963 I say, what is the monetary value against, you know, the wider energy 19:21.979 --> 19:25.541 market and the forecasts of where that is, you know, what is the NPV. 19:26.167 --> 19:30.097 And that's a big part of the value because ultimately any PPA 19:30.177 --> 19:33.916 is going to go through a company's board and whoever's in charge 19:33.964 --> 19:37.108 of the finance is going to look at that and say, does this make sense? 19:37.156 --> 19:40.622 Does this— is this giving us something? And that something could be, 19:41.472 --> 19:44.807 you know, a a stable price, 19:44.871 --> 19:47.676 it could be a good price, it could be a positive NPV, 19:48.141 --> 19:52.966 but there are benefits. And then there are other things around it which again can 19:53.466 --> 19:56.733 seem difficult to quantify. But you're right, what you draw out from that is that 19:57.102 --> 20:00.436 the 2 things are, one, it's a 2-sided equation. 20:00.484 --> 20:03.112 So yes, PPAs went up, 20:04.090 --> 20:08.626 but that's not necessarily the whole story because what's the wider energy story 20:08.659 --> 20:11.754 and the wider corporate story? Yeah, and, 20:12.107 --> 20:15.991 you know, you hit on an important point of like headline price isn't 20:16.119 --> 20:19.409 the end-all to be-all because of, you know, what's, 20:19.650 --> 20:22.282 what's going to

be the value of this contract at the end of the day, 20:22.298 --> 20:26.117 right? There's an unknown. And so these tariffs actually 20:26.150 --> 20:29.423 introduce that as well, right, from a pricing perspective, 20:29.584 --> 20:32.408 if you're not hammered out and who's responsible for what. 20:32.569 --> 20:36.100 So 2 PPA proposals with the same headline 20:36.600 --> 20:39.872 price may carry very different delivery risks from this. 20:40.211 --> 20:44.180 So, one developer may have their equipment secured, 20:44.728 --> 20:48.527 another may be relying on a future purchase at an assumed 20:48.591 --> 20:53.301 price, right? Or a corporate 20:53.801 --> 20:56.911 may be considering the timing of the offtake decision. 20:57.025 --> 21:00.702 And so, you know, a developer needs a signed PPA 21:01.302 --> 21:04.842 in a lot of cases to support the financing. In the procurement commitments. 21:05.425 --> 21:08.973 And so the corporate may want the 21:09.473 --> 21:11.468 certainty before signing, 21:12.897 --> 21:16.251 and the developer is saying, I can't provide that to you right now 21:16.621 --> 21:20.184 within certain bandwidth, and neither one's 21:20.684 --> 21:24.290 being unreasonable, right? So the solution is really putting all the conditions 21:24.790 --> 21:29.037 on the table, right? The procurement milestones, the financing progress, 21:30.116 --> 21:33.117 delay remedies, right? Um, 21:33.569 --> 21:37.054 and so, and that's really important for a 21:37.554 --> 21:40.830 VPPA, uh, for, for certain reasons. You know, it doesn't 21:41.330 --> 21:45.948 make the actual equipment risk disappear 21:45.996 --> 21:48.322 because the electrons aren't going directly to them. 21:49.070 --> 21:52.174 Um, so yeah, I mean, it, it, 21:52.320 --> 21:54.498 it's just yet another unknown. 21:56.189 --> 21:59.818 To parties, much like a, uh, 22:00.284 --> 22:04.121 a forecasted power price 10 to 15 22:04.153 --> 22:08.200 years in the future, where both parties will have to come to the table 22:08.954 --> 22:12.230 and sort of ask questions on where things 22:12.262 --> 22:16.726 stand in the process and who bears the risk should 22:16.822 --> 22:21.591 things change, right? So I think as a corporate What 22:22.362 --> 22:25.958 they would be asking today is really like, have the panels been 22:26.006 --> 22:30.021 secured? What's the cost and delivery date that's 22:30.521 --> 22:34.308 assumed within the PPA price? And if those assumptions change, 22:34.661 --> 22:38.017 who carries the risk? And if one developer 22:38.517 --> 22:41.855 answers those questions a certain way and one answers 22:41.951 --> 22:45.499 it a different way, even though they have the same headline price, 22:46.286 --> 22:49.753 one is going to look more attractive than the other. And it's 22:50.253 --> 22:53.410 going to be looked at from a total value perspective, not just the strike price. 22:54.725 --> 22:58.125 That's really interesting because right at the top

of this, 22:58.895 --> 23:02.118 when we started talking, I thought, well, one of the questions I need to ask 23:02.327 --> 23:05.951 is what is the impact on corporate? And I almost thought, why do you need 23:06.451 --> 23:09.159 to ask this? Because actually it's dead obvious, isn't it? It's just going to push 23:09.659 --> 23:13.457 the price of PPAs up. You know, that's not great news. But actually, 23:13.874 --> 23:18.064 I think what you're alluding to and what you're saying is the 23:18.564 --> 23:22.302 reality is that it is quite complex 23:22.802 --> 23:26.798 to assess. It's not simple. So you do need to understand, 23:26.879 --> 23:30.668 you know, the value, say, through the net— the NPV. It's not just 23:31.168 --> 23:34.698 the headline price. You need to understand where's the value, should we 23:35.198 --> 23:38.022 say, versus your energy markets, your energy sourcing, 23:38.857 --> 23:42.790 but also Where's the risk or any benefits 23:42.871 --> 23:45.808 within that PPA structure potentially? 23:46.242 --> 23:49.597 So what it means is it's more vital as a corporate than ever that 23:50.097 --> 23:53.065 you're asking the right questions at the right time. Is that fair? 23:54.269 --> 23:56.934 Absolutely. Yeah, I think that that's what, you know, 23:58.282 --> 24:01.734 most corporates will be doing. You know, most corporates are probably 24:02.234 --> 24:05.426 running RFPs for this. So if I'm a developer, I want to make sure I 24:05.507 --> 24:08.955 can answer those questions. And if 24:09.455 --> 24:12.562 I'm a developer, I probably need to have a good handle on it from an 24:13.062 --> 24:16.009 internal perspective anyway, right? And none of this is cut and dry. 24:16.891 --> 24:20.497 It's going to be different for everyone. But the theme 24:20.997 --> 24:24.233 remains the same. And the theme is really 24:24.345 --> 24:27.631 very similar to what we've lived in the last couple of years anyway. There have 24:28.131 --> 24:31.559 been changes to tax credits and changes to, you know, 24:33.403 --> 24:37.402 interconnection queues and changes to costs, right? This is just another thing to 24:37.902 --> 24:41.513 add on top of it, but it in theory probably isn't going to be handled 24:42.013 --> 24:45.046 by corporate procurement teams or developers any 24:45.127 --> 24:48.242 differently. It's, it's again just a matter of like, 24:48.644 --> 24:52.113 here's an additional risk, how do we ring-fence it, 24:52.739 --> 24:57.139 and how much are we willing to share in the partnership of 24:57.171 --> 24:59.645 that risk in order to get a project built? 25:00.928 --> 25:04.728 Yeah, and therefore the whole thing becomes more critical. 25:04.872 --> 25:08.608 I should say about it's the understanding, understanding the environment, but then 25:08.945 --> 25:12.248 the developer getting the pitch right, 25:12.954 --> 25:16.610 um, to, to kind of say 25:17.684 --> 25:20.875 not only just look, here's my price, but actually here's, here's the other thing, 25:20.987 --> 25:24.435 and here's potentially, here's what's good. You know, we've sourced it, we've got some 25:24.935 --> 25:27.081 guarantees, we've done this, we're ready to go. 25:28.108 --> 25:31.142 Or that's not possible, but how do we pitch, 25:31.560 --> 25:34.948 you know, what we've got and the benefits of it, and how do we address 25:35.448 --> 25:40.167 those risks and manage those risks, and the corporates understanding them. So it's, 25:40.311 --> 25:43.731 uh, it unfortunately doesn't do much to simplify the, 25:43.860 --> 25:47.617 the wonderful world of corporate PPAs. But actually what 25:48.117 --> 25:51.214 it's not is what you might look at the headline and go, oh well, 25:51.311 --> 25:55.020 there's a tariff on polysilicon products, it's going to impact the 25:55.520 --> 25:58.990 solar, it's just going to take a hatchet to to 25:59.054 --> 26:02.185 solar PPAs. Well, the reality is it's anything 26:02.250 --> 26:05.381 but, isn't it? It presents some challenges, 26:05.414 --> 26:09.504 but as we've seen in literally every bump in the road and challenge 26:10.249 --> 26:13.278 wherever in the world, you know, so far, 26:14.233 --> 26:16.339 people find a way and people make it work. 26:18.032 --> 26:19.968 Yep, I think that's accurate. That's good. 26:21.627 --> 26:24.805 Before we wrap up, is there— it's been a really good chat. Um, 26:25.095 --> 26:28.150 thanks for coming in and talking to me about this. I think it's really— it's 26:28.650 --> 26:32.043 been helpful to understand it, and hopefully, you know, listeners will find it helpful 26:32.091 --> 26:35.322 too. Are there any last thoughts on this that you, you'd kind 26:35.822 --> 26:39.128 of— you feel you want to share before we wrap up? No, 26:39.144 --> 26:42.821 I think that's it, but certainly open to, uh, you know, anyone listening. 26:42.918 --> 26:46.272 If you have any, uh, questions or comments, feel free to reach out. 26:47.490 --> 26:50.075 Happy to have more conversations like this. 26:51.384 --> 26:55.041 Excellent. So there you have it. If, if you've got any questions, please ask Kenny. 26:55.378 --> 26:58.619 Um, he's the expert. Don't ask me, I'm just a semi-expert. 26:59.004 --> 27:01.185 And you can reach out, uh, you can email him, you can get to him 27:01.685 --> 27:04.554 through the Zygo platform, you can find him on LinkedIn. Um, 27:05.099 --> 27:08.179 Kenny, it's been a pleasure as always. I appreciate you 27:08.679 --> 27:11.211 taking the time. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me,