Transkrip lengkap untuk 22 | Interviewing with Confidence: How to Tell Your Story and Stand Out

If they answer those questions in tight three to four minute answers, then the interview neatly fits into the time we've got scheduled for it. And the interviewers aren't kind of like looking at their watch wondering when this is going to go on. What often happens is if an interviewee has not prepared well, they ramble. And the rambling just kind of they keep thinking of new things they want to add to their answer. and you end up really diluting your power as an interviewee to really hit it, stick it, and move on to the next one, right? And that makes the interviewers a little nervous. And then you start to think, what would it be like to work with this person in meeting who, you know, can't really stop talking and doesn't know how to answer a question in a finite way? So, yeah, come prepared and keep it tight. Jen Brown: Yeah. So I love that you said that. We are coming back to that self-aware piece as we give some tips about what we've seen work. ⁓ And you said something, Hugo, that I think is worth pointing out for our listeners and viewers. You mentioned being in a different country. That was our experience in the State Department in particular. We were overseas ⁓ and in DC. ⁓ I want to just note for our listeners coming in from the small business or corporate or wherever you are in the private sector and nonprofit any position this applies. So. What we want to see is someone who has done their research on the organization, who knows the company values, who gets the position, who gets some of the culture. Maybe they start following the company online and doing some of their research that way. But really setting themselves up to go into that interview to speak that language. Hugo Rodriguez: So if I could just ⁓ expand on that a little bit. So the research is online, right? So you go online, you learn about the company, you learn about the industry, you learn about the division, whatever information you can excavate online to kind of give you a sense of what they do, how they do it. A lot of times you aren't going to get a sense of what company culture is, but I know Glassdoor is one way you can get a sense of how people at the company feel about it. But ⁓ Bill Burnett and think it's Dave Evans from the Designing Your Life ⁓ program, right, out of the Stanford D School. They talk about prototyping. And you and I have talked about this quite a bit. Prototyping is, ⁓ you can have prototyping conversations where you reach out to people in an industry and say, can I buy you a coffee or can I buy you a virtual coffee? Can you tell me something about? what you do, what your job is like, what the industry is like, what are the pressures you're facing, what's the future look like in that industry? That is the best kind of research because it's live, right? Even if it's not at that company, doesn't matter, right? If you want to go into investment banking and, ⁓ you know, it's Goldman, right? If you talk to someone at Bear Stearns, they're going to be able to tell you, ⁓ these are some things to think about as you look at our industry. That helps you build that mental framework. you know what questions might be coming your way and you know how to answer them. And what I always tell people is you if you know what the company is looking for, that's half the game. if you know what skills they're looking for, right, someone who ⁓ obviously works hard, someone who is at doing analysis or due diligence, someone who ⁓ knows how to clearly and concisely, right, figuring out the needs of the position and what someone who succeeds in that position is doing allows you to then build the stories you want to tell in the interview about yourself. The way to not do an interview, right, to do poorly in interview is to sort of say, well, you know, I kind of I read the position description and I figure they'll ask me some questions and I'll answer the questions. That is not the way you crush an interview, right? ⁓ You want to you want to actually have done your homework. And the first part of that is really scraping, scraping in for from the information from the Internet, talking to people in the industry, maybe finding someone who worked at that company and learning from them. Whatever you can do before you start to do your process is going to be helpful. Jen Brown: So I want to talk through that a little bit because You're so right. It's not just a show up and do the interview or cram and be ready like the night before or something like that. This is like a part-time job to know your story and present it in a way that ties you as the best candidate and in an authentic way. And I, you know, I will say like I volunteer with two organizations in Wilmington, North Carolina, and they're working with people who are looking to take that next chapter, that next step in their life, different stages in their lives, but they have something in common. They're really focused on how to build the person's story, their work experience, their educational experience, in a way that really covers outcome-driven results. and why the person's the best fit. So you may have heard of the STAR model, situation, present the situation briefly, the task, the action, and then the result, really the impact. What was the impact of what you did? And when we think about a person's resume, that's really how the resume needs to be written to show the impact, the action and the impact. And really as someone is preparing for that interview, you're starting to go over that resume and pull your top four or five, maybe six stories so that as you are ready to go into those questions, you know what you're ready to say with an ⁓ outcome driven approach. And this is where it gets tricky, right? Because something that you said about being able to breathe concisely and do all these wonderful things. It's all about people. Does this person get along well with others? Can they play in the sandbox together? And so in that interview, while you're focused on

that outcome driven approach of what you did, it's also the we, how you led the team, how you worked with other people, especially during conflict, and how did you overcome failure, right? And bring that to life in a way where it helped other people. So, I just really want to focus as we were talking about those skills, like really starting to mentally prepare from the resume and then through practice of how do I tell my story in a way that aligns with that company and that position. Hugo Rodriguez: Right. Right. That's the place that it starts. Right. Once you know what they're looking for and what a successful candidate in that job, what a successful employee in that position brings to it, then what I recommend is you build your stories around those five things. Right. You pick those five things that you know they're looking for in a candidate and you create a story around each one of those using the STAR method, as you said. Right. So whether that is ⁓ You know, they're looking for someone who can learn quickly, right? They want someone who can quickly get up to speed on what they're doing is, you know, used is used to being in a dynamic quick learning environment. Well, come up with a story about something that happened in your career where you had to learn quickly or you made a mistake and learned from it quickly and adjusted and came back with an improved improved approach, right? I couldn't agree more. with the need for like, this isn't just about you. This is about your impact on the team, right? So one of the red flags that comes out is when someone comes into an interview and it's all like me, me, me, me, right? I'm thinking like, what is this? How is this person going to integrate into the team I've already got? How are they going to raise everybody up as opposed to just looking out for me, me, me, me, right? So Like you said, and speaking a little bit about how the way you show up at work helps everybody else succeed as well. So sprinkling those we's into that conversation. But obviously you could think of an unlimited number of questions and an unlimited number of answers. So as you said, come up with the 3, 4, 5 stories that are that fill in the blanks for the things that company is looking for. How do you think about leadership? What is your leadership philosophy? If you come up with a story that illustrates how you approach leadership, either as a leader or a follower, that is a story that can fit on so many, is an answer for so many different questions, right? And when you're going into an interview, yeah, go ahead. Jen Brown: Can I jump in here a minute because you talked about leadership philosophy and this is the piece that always, you know, I think we need to, yes, we can talk philosophy and we need specific examples. So if we just get into Hugo Rodriguez: Yes. Jen Brown: Well my approach is this but I don't have anything specific to back it up. Well that sounds great but did you do it? Hugo Rodriguez: And all of these stories need to be an example of how you showed up, right? They have to be concrete. So when they say, tell me about your leadership philosophy, say, well, let me tell you a story. So this is, you know, here's a challenge I dealt with at work. Here's how I dealt with it. Here was the outcome, right? Go to your star method and your star method should have in there, you know, the actual Jen Brown: Yeah. Hugo Rodriguez: anonymized details of what you did, what the impact was, what you learned, how I made the world better afterwards, right? That's the critical thing. And I love that you mentioned that the STAR method is the way you should build your resume as well. Your resume is a kind of a, also it's like an interview on paper. For each job that you're applying for, you need a different resume. and they're different in that they speak to the specific job you're applying for, just the same way as the interview is specific to the position that you are applying for. If you're applying as a bank teller and you're applying as a hardware store clerk, the skills you're going to need in some cases may overlap, but can largely be very different. And so you're going to kind of need Jen Brown: Yes. Hugo Rodriguez: different emphases on your different stories to be able to speak to the needs of that specific position. But again, if you come up with three or four or five good stories, they will apply to a number of questions, which makes it a whole lot easier to go in an interview ⁓ with a few things already locked into your brain that's fewer ⁓ unknowns, uncertainties that you have to deal with in the interview itself. Jen Brown: Well, and I think this is one of the things that, as I mentioned, I was doing some recent volunteering and coaching someone around this. I just, I know some interview questions I've used throughout my career. And I was also curious, what would AI tell me? And I put some questions into AI, got some questions back, and I shared them with the person I was coaching. And I said, hey, I don't know that they will ask these questions, but take note of the buckets. Yes. that these questions fall under, right? So teamwork and leadership and failure learning, right? So when you start to get yourself comfortable with these buckets of potential questions and knowing which story you want for that type of question, then it just rolls because it's your story. You're not making anything up. And someone who is as an interviewer, I was always looking, is this person comfortable in sharing their experience? If it felt rehearsed, then I had to decipher, are they nervous? Is this legit? Like, how comfortable are they? Hugo Rodriguez: I will, if I could just say, I know what you're saying, but I think rehearsing is really important. The first time you tell a story, it is rocky, it is a mess. And so the first time you tell that story should not be in the interview itself. The first time you should tell that story is when you're working with a coach or you're

working with, you know, a friend who's helping you prepare for the interview. And you tell that story once and it comes out like, Jen Brown: No. Hugo Rodriguez: You're spitting tacks and you tell it again. It gets a little bit better the third time you're like, OK, now I know like are the key points in that and get feedback, right? Because you want to bury the most important part of the story in your head. It's linear, but the way you're telling it may not make sense. ⁓ So having that will listen to that story and say here are some tweaks, do it again. OK, that's better. Do it one more time ⁓ and then Jen Brown: Yeah. ⁓ Hugo Rodriguez: comes out like a polished stone, right? And then it's nice and smooth. That's the kind of preparation I think you need to do. It shouldn't be somebody else's story. You should not be, you know, it should be your story in your words, but well practiced enough that it's smooth. Jen Brown: Completely agree. And I think something, you know, coming from the government space, we used a lot of acronyms, a lot of jargon, our military colleagues the same, and people who've also been in particular industries use their language, right? Their lingo. So no matter where you are, if you are changing industry, changing, you know, evolving into another chapter, so it is just so important to speak plain English in a way that the person across from you can understand. If you're staying in, you know, in the military or staying in a particular industry, you know, that's fine. They will get it. Make sure they get it. But... you want to make sure that you're taking your experience into on the resume and in the interview into plain speak that is easily transferable that the person gets what you're saying. Hugo Rodriguez: And your practice buddy can help you with that. When you're practicing these stories, they will say, wait a second, I'm not sure, what did you mean by the State Department Operation Center? What is that? Right? And then you're like, ⁓ OK, that's not going to work. Let me come up with another way of saying the same thing. Yeah. Jen Brown: Exactly. Exactly. And I've seen it in coaching with members of the military, right? Because they're like, well, of course this, well, that's not so transparent. So how can we reframe that into a way that I can follow what you're saying? Hugo Rodriguez: Exactly. Yeah, that is great advice. Jen Brown: Yeah. You know, and I think something that can trip us up sometimes is when someone asks a question and we're just not quite sure how we want to answer. And, you know, sometimes there's an awkward pause. Sometimes there's the, me rush into an answer here. ⁓ And from what I have seen, some of the best interviews have been, that's a great question. Take a, take a little breath. and get your thoughts clear before you start to respond to that. Hugo, what have you seen in that space? Hugo Rodriguez: Absolutely. That's a go-to move, right? To buy yourself some time. You say, ⁓ that's a fantastic question. Let me take a moment to think about that and be comfortable just thinking about it. Ideally, it is. It is. Yeah. But I think it is OK, right? Because it says something about you. It says your thoughts. Jen Brown: Silence is super awkward though, right? We've got to fill it. Hugo Rodriguez: You choose your words carefully. We all want someone working for us that's going to be thoughtful about the way they communicate. I will say this is particularly challenging in that problem I mentioned earlier about rambling, because we ramble to fill the space. And a good interviewer is not going to cut you off. A good interviewer is going to let you express yourself. They're going to give you the rope. If you want to hang yourself with it, they're going to let you hang yourself with it. as part of your practice, practice stopping after three minutes. You know, getting your point across, star method. Once you get to the R, right? What were the results? Then you just stop and take a breath. And if you practice that and you have in your mind, OK, I'm going to stop after three minutes. It's rare that you go past, four minutes, right? You know to stop, but I find that most people feel like, ⁓ I got to keep going because this is dead air, right? This is like, there's too much silence. It's nerve wracking. So they just ramble on. And it's very difficult for an interviewer to say, OK, that's enough. Stop there. Usually, maybe just just let it roll until you peter out. And that's not the that's not the impression you want to leave in an interview. Jen Brown: Right. So, and I love how you said when you get to the R, the results. For me, I always loved having a go-to phrase as part of that practice so that I'm wrapping it up in a way that is clear I'm done answering the question. Hugo Rodriguez: Tell me what kind of phrase we're talking about. Jen Brown: Well, I think it depends on the question, ⁓ just having a couple things on hand of tying it back in a way to the question. So what is your leadership philosophy? I'm giving my example, I had the results, and that is what has shaped my leadership philosophy. So tying it back to the question wherever I can in a way to say, I've come full circle. Hugo Rodriguez: Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. One of the things you want to practice out, one of the things you want to work so that you don't make this mistake is being repetitive. So I have found, I've done this, know, where I like on the third question, I find myself saying for the third time, that's a really interesting question. Let me take a moment to think about that, right? Like I needed more practice to come up with another way of buying time. And so you have a few different go tos. You might try, ⁓ I hadn't thought about that. Let me think about that for a minute. Or, well, you know, ⁓ it's interesting that you said that because just the other day I had a situation. Let me see how I can couch this. And then you come out with it, right? So you've got different

ways to kind of buy yourself that thinking time at the beginning. Same with how do you close it out? Right. Having a little different phrase, tie it back to the question. You want it to just feel natural, like a conversation. And the most natural conversations are the ones you've practiced a little. Jen Brown: That is right. The preparation piece cannot be overstated here. if you, at least in my experience, if I felt, okay, I've got this, those were the interviews where I did not do my best. Hugo Rodriguez: Every time. Same here. Same here. Jen Brown: So the interviews where I took days and just let the my answers kind of sit in my head and think about how I would say it and practice over and over. That's where, and guess what? I didn't answer in the interview the exact same way that I said it because I'm being natural in the interview, but I had the material so they are ready to go, could just explain it. And that's what we're looking to do. Hugo Rodriguez: For me, I have to say it out loud to someone. I can't look in my mirror and think through the answer because it will just be a dog's breakfast when I actually have to speak it and wrap my tongue around it. So I really recommend people find a willing partner and run your run your stories with them. Just run the stories with them. And you can say I'm getting ready for a really important interview. Could you give me 20 minutes? I just want to. hear myself say these stories and I'd love your feedback. And the same time you're saying it out loud, you're hearing it and that layers it in. it becomes a script that is natural to you. And you know where the story elements are. You know what the timing is. You know how three minutes feels like. You get the feedback. So you cut out the jargon again. Right. I just think for me, the the difference between a B or a B minus and an A or an A plus is the, know, harnessing my poor wife and, you know, trapping her and saying, I need to run through these. Will you do it with me? That is that has made the difference for me every time. Jen Brown: Well, you are lucky you have a great partner there to do that. I will say I have sometimes even just done it in front of the mirror. And I know through ⁓ speaking, coaching, record yourself. If you absolutely do not have someone else, record yourself and play it back. Take a look. and listen to what your pacing is like. Are you rushing? Are you pausing? I can be a fast talker. knowing that about myself, I know I need to slow down. And what feels uncomfortable, let it sit just an extra second. Hugo Rodriguez: Can I add a couple of other things quickly because I before I forget, mean, one of the one of the things that you really need to do before an interview is get your energy up. Right. ⁓ If you let's say on a given day you're going to have an interview, you know, the interview at 10 a.m. you get up at eight, you do your routine, you head over to the interview. You're just you've got so much going on in your head, your energy will Jen Brown: What? Hugo Rodriguez: will kind of tend to deaden it out. And so one of the great pieces of advice I heard was when you wake up that morning, look for opportunities to be extra. Look for opportunities to go over and above. When you get to the location of the interview and the doorman is there, compliment his hat, compliment his shoes, ask him how he's doing, has he had his coffee, right? Get your energy up and find the, you know, the happy space that you want to be in. Just, you know, I like to say Hugo Plus. Like, I just want to be a little bit more than I am normally. And that way, when I get into the interview, that energy carries in. And then I'm engaged and I'm up. And, you know, if you ever watch the way I think about this is there are two kinds of baseball infielders, right? There's the guy at shortstop who's standing on his heels with his knees locked. That guy's never getting to the ball when it's hit into his area. There's a player at shortstop who's on the balls of his feet. His knees are bent. He's crouched. He's, you know, ready to pounce, right? That's that energy. That's that like engaged energy. And that's the way I want to go into an interview. Like I want to be on the balls of my feet. I want to be bouncy. I want to be ready to go looking for the chance to like, you know, snag every ball that gets thrown my way. And so ⁓ I recommend you start that from the moment you wake up in the morning, every human engagement until the interview itself, be a little bit extra, put a little bit extra on it and just open your heart to the world. ⁓ And you end up having the same energy follow you into the interview room. And just like, you know, anything in life, you get you love to engage with people that bring that positive energy that gives you the opportunity to do that. Jen Brown: That's And it still comes through the screen. this is the part that I also put in the executive presence category because it is the energy of what is your body language saying? What is your face communicating? That is contagious. And people do pay attention to that. Hugo Rodriguez: Right. And yeah, and it's contrary to what you think, right? You want to be, you want to go into an interview and be a steady presence, like unflappable. You want to be, you know, calm, still water. But that tends to deaden your ability to interact. When you think about the person you want to be around in the office, it's the one with the energy. Jen Brown: Right? Hugo Rodriguez: It's the one that comes in in the morning and says, hey, how's everybody doing? I brought coffee. Hey, I brought donuts, you know, like that that extra personality helps the team level go up. So bring that into the interview. The other thing I would add is be careful using humor. ⁓ It is it can really. Yeah, it does not land. You are much better off just being friendly and positive. Jen Brown: ⁓ yes. ⁓ yes, it doesn't always land. Yeah. Hugo Rodriguez: and bringing your energy that way

than trying to be clever and funny. ⁓ Because boy, that's hard. That is really hard. And I know people who are like, I have a great sense of humor. Let me get a joke. going to, you that that works one time in 100. Whereas positive energy works 99 times. Jen Brown: Yeah, interview is not the place to practice your humor. Hugo Rodriguez: Nope. Nope. Not at all. Jen Brown: No. So I am, curious, you know, how, how do you handle the after interview piece, Hugo? Hugo Rodriguez: Actually, before we get there, there's one other thing I want to just highlight ⁓ because there's always going to be one last question at the interview, which is, you have any questions for us? Right? Jen Brown: We've had some conversation about this one before, I know. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, we have. And and ⁓ you and I have a different approach. So get ready, because I want you to I want you to talk about your approach. My approach, first of all, never talk money. Never say how much does this job pay or whatever, right? Money is a whole different conversation. Money comes up once the offer is made. Right. This is a place to to show that you are going to make that company, that division, that office, that team better. And it's not about what you're going to get out of it. So my favorite answer to the question, do you have any questions for us is. I just I just I'm curious, first of all, let me say thank you for the time. I really appreciated this. a great interview. Always use that opportunity to say thank you. The question that I still have is. When you think about the ideal candidate for this job. What would you say are the qualities that they would bring to the position? Again, it sounds repetitive because you've already done your research. You've been doing your research for days, but that's not why you ask the question. You ask the question because the interviewer will then say, well, we're looking for somebody who's, you know, learns quickly, can make good decisions, briefs really well. And then you could say, fantastic. You know, I, I. thought that's what you're looking for and I bring those skills and I feel like, you know, as I mentioned with this story and that story, I really feel like ⁓ I can help your team succeed. I bring those skills, right? It gives you a chance to end the interview by underlining the things that make you special. Because they open up the door to say, here's what we're looking for. You can say, that's awesome. That's why I feel like I'd be a great fit because X, Y, and Z, and you end it there. Now, we've disagreed, so tell me what you think. Jen Brown: I think that that was very, no, no, I'm not disagreeing. I do agree with you. That is a very powerful way to summarize. and emphasize what you bring into it. I do think it depends on the interview and I have done this. It's not shot me in the foot on certain occasions. Maybe it did on others and I don't know, but depending on the interview, if there are any follow-ups or anything that the person may be looking for that you might be able to suss out. about any next steps. But I agree because we've had this conversation before that maybe that is better placed in a thank you email and look forward to any next steps or whatever the case may be. So I think. Hugo Rodriguez: I think the last time we talked about this, think you made a really powerful persuasive case for saying something along the lines of this was a great conversation. I hope we have the chance to talk further. ⁓ What might that look like? you know, I don't think you said, know, when when when when should I expect to hear from you or when are you making your decision? Yeah, not not that far forward, but for opening up. Jen Brown: You know, yeah. Hugo Rodriguez: the level of interest in furthering the relationship, right, which I think is really smart. Jen Brown: And really though, that follow-up email is definitely the place to underscore your commitment, your interest in the position and noting, look forward to hearing from you or whatever that case may be. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah. So we are totally on the same wavelength that we need to have a follow, like as soon as the interview is over, same afternoon or next morning, an email. What would you say in your email? Jen Brown: I would keep it short and basically thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about this position based on what you said you're looking for. I feel like I bring those and I would welcome the opportunity to... assist in the company or something along those lines, right? How you would contribute to the company and look forward to hearing from you or something going forward, you know. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, awesome. I hadn't thought about this before, but I think if you use the last question that I just talked about, right, like what are you looking for in an ideal candidate? That gives you something to put into the email, right? Otherwise, the interview is basically them asking you questions you could say in your follow-up email. You asked amazing questions. Thank you for the thought-provoking conversation. ⁓ Jen Brown: Okay. Hugo Rodriguez: But I think having that last question where you elicit something from them then gives you something you can close out on the email afterwards. I think that is a great place for that. Now I have a question for you. You've done the email. Thank you email. Do you send a handwritten note? Jen Brown: ⁓ that's a good one. I have lost that practice, but I definitely used to. I haven't interviewed in a while, so, ⁓ but I was always a fan of the handwritten note to be truthful. I think it adds a level of thoughtfulness that goes just, yeah, that extra mile. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, I also lost that. Jen Brown: If possible, I would say yes, do it. Hugo Rodriguez: ⁓ I would like to build that habit again. In my current role here as a professor, I do quite a bit of work with prospective students and frankly I love it when they send me a note afterwards. Email, email is great. ⁓ But

the ones who go a little bit extra and actually send a physical note and ⁓ make sure it's legible. Use your best handwriting. Jen Brown: Yeah. Or print? Print. Hugo Rodriguez: But it does show that you are a go the extra mile person. And when you're interviewing for a job, that's something you want to leave them with. So I kind of like that. Jen Brown: Yeah. Yeah, you want to stand out. You are in a sea of people and this is just such a competitive market. So what makes you different from everyone else? Hugo Rodriguez: That's right. Right on. Right on. So definitely an email. And also, if you can do it, a handwritten note, I think is just great. again, it just it's it's one more touch. think you're keeping your your name in front of them. Right. And, ⁓ you know, you're getting them to think about you in a positive way. Like, ⁓ that was really thoughtful. They went out of their way to send this thank you note. How nice. Right. Bing. like, look, as you said, there are going to be a lot of people interviewing. Somebody is going to have just a slightly more experience than you do. You may not get the job, but if you've if you followed up in a professional way, they're going to remember you. And you might be at the top of their list for the next opening or they may see something elsewhere that would be a good fit for you. Right. You're just. Jen Brown: Yeah. Hugo Rodriguez: you're building that relationship and it extends beyond just the interview. And I think that's really important. Jen Brown: That's right. And I will say, even in working with clients now, when they find a good person, maybe they didn't have that position ready to go, but they don't want to miss out on the on on that person. So they can keep them in mind or even not in every case, but maybe even create something on the spot. You don't know what's possible with that. So how you Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, yeah, they keep them in mind. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Jen Brown: how you make the connections, how you follow up, all of that plays a role for downward. Yeah. Yeah. Hugo Rodriguez: Exactly right. So can I quickly summarize because this is something that you and I have done quite a bit of and I kind of have a mental framework. So the first thing we talked about, make sure you do your research. Use that research to figure out, first of all, is the company a good fit? You know, a job just to have a job is not the right job. So if the company is not a good fit, move on. But once you've done your research, you know what they're looking for for that. Jen Brown: Yes. Hugo Rodriguez: position or industry, company, office, whatever, you get yourself those five or six skills that you know that are going to be critical to the success of whoever they hire. Build a story for each of those skills, something that you did, not just something you thought about or a philosophy you hold, but that's each of those stories should be a concrete, say the star method again. Jen Brown: Situation, task, action, result. I take that further, not just result, but impact. Hugo Rodriguez: impact. That's great. How did you make the world a better place with the work you did? Right? So each of your each of your stories should be shaped in that way. And you have your five stories, you find somebody or you find a video camera on your phone and you practice telling that story. Right? Practice it a number of times. Jen Brown: Yeah. Yes. Hugo Rodriguez: Go back and watch the video. Make sure that it's in the order you want. it's has the the basically conveys the message you want to convey and stays within three to four minutes. Right. And you get comfortable ending there. Maybe a nice line to close it out and you end there. Then on the day of the interview. Get up, be extra, right? Get ready by, you know, being. super friendly, super positive, like super engaged, super energetic. ⁓ Carry that energy into the interview itself. Be very careful with the use of humor. Make sure that the language you use is plain English or appropriate to the field you're interviewing for. ⁓ Close your, be ready for that last question. However you choose to answer it, know that the last question is very likely to be, you have any questions for us? Jen Brown: Yes. Hugo Rodriguez: And then when you get out of there, make sure that you follow up soon afterwards with a quick email. Thank you. With a couple of details in there, maybe you work into that somehow, how you know how you really feel like this would be a great fit for the skills you bring and how you would ⁓ be able to help the team succeed, right? Like you're what you bring is not. Jen Brown: add value to the company. Hugo Rodriguez: Yeah, it's not just the I, but it's the we and what we can what I can do for the collective you. Right. And if you are of the, you know, the persuasion that you can actually sit down and handwrite a thank you note, do that as well. But that one can you can wait a day before you mail that one off because it just keeps you in the conversation. Anything I missed? Jen Brown: Exactly. No, I think you hit it. I think you hit it. Just one other thing, don't be afraid of a little pause. Hugo Rodriguez: Yes, little silence. Not a bad thing. Jen Brown: Yeah, yeah, a little, exactly, exactly. No, Hugo, I will say I... Gosh, I remember how nervous I used to get before interviews and then they just sort of started to become second nature and ⁓ I definitely agree. Practice preferably with someone so that you have that personal interaction and can get that feedback because this is your story. This is your opportunity to sell yourself. Show your battle. Hugo Rodriguez: Do you think they got easier for you because it was practice? Even just the doing of it regularly kind of put you into that environment where your stories were right there and you know what stories to tell? Jen Brown: Absolutely. In fact, I kept stories kind of on my, I had a file for stories and then I would go through and I'd pull my stories and think about the job I was looking at and, and what story was best for that. So keeping a file of your accomplishments is super huge. Just to think about what's applicable for what comes next and really preparation, practice and repetition. Hugo Rodriguez: So true. I'll just say one final thing. The story doesn't have to be huge, right? It doesn't have to be I saved humanity. It could be I saved a duckling walking across the street. It could be a very small thing. But if it if it conveys, if it gives you the space to convey something that they're looking for. Jen Brown: No. Right. Hugo Rodriguez: That's what's important about the story. So we feel like all of our stories have to be these big superhuman things. Don't worry about that. Like, you are learning and doing, creating every day. Pick one of those that's illustrative and that you're proud of, and that's good enough. Like, that'll be perfect. Jen Brown: Exactly. That is what a great note to end on. Thank you so much, Hugo. Hopefully this is helpful. Yes. All right. Take care. Bye. Hugo Rodriguez: My pleasure. So much fun. Thank you, Jen. Bye bye.