Transkrip lengkap untuk Why Crypto’s REAL Competition Is the Legacy Financial System ft. Aklil Ibssa | High Stakes Ep. 26

00:04:05.165 --> 00:04:10.957 But really want to give you a chance to sort of contextualize, hey, where does this role sit in the overall organization? 00:04:10.957 --> 00:04:13.250 Because it's it's really a critical one. 00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:16.540 So it's funny, people ask me, well, what is corporate development? 00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:19.040 And so it is worth taking a bit on. 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.333 So my role encompasses, I would say three primary areas. 00:04:23.165 --> 00:04:38.540 One is on corporate strategy, which is kind of a buzzword, but what it means in practice is, you know, how do we enhance the competitive positioning of Coinbase through a variety of different efforts and in most cases, investments as well as M&A, but also through product strategy? 00:04:38.665 --> 00:04:46.500 And so what this means is you know, asking and answering the simple question of does it make sense for us to buy, build or partner for this capability? 00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:49.375 And so that means, hey, we think NFTs are big. 00:04:49.375 --> 00:04:51.000 How should we think about it? 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.708 DeFi or certain categories within DeFi seem to be popping our cash. 00:04:54.708 --> 00:04:55.790 Should we think about it? 00:04:55.790 --> 00:04:57.415 Really trying to answer some of those questions. 00:04:57.415 --> 00:05:09.708 And then the second piece of the job is, you know, if the answer to the first question is what we think of a or a large alliance or strategic investment, makes sense for us to do as a way to get exposure into a category or enter as a business. 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:19.958 Then my team and I looked, evaluate source, execute diligence, negotiate term sheets on acquisition opportunities, all the way through the integration. 00:05:20.165 --> 00:05:25.583 So that's what I think I would say the second piece is what we're more known for is kind of what, you know, sort of makes the headlines. 00:05:25.625 --> 00:05:38.790 And then the last piece of it I would say is, you know, lower in terms of activity that we do, but something that's I think in some respects unique to Coinbase, which is, you know, oftentimes it makes sense for us to invest for a capability to get exposure to a category. 00:05:38.790 --> 00:05:53.165 And so what that means is if there's a geography that we really like, that we may not look to build into, initially, or there's a capability that's just too difficult for us to build or one that we want to monitor oftentimes will take a large minority investment into a company. 00:05:53.290 --> 00:06:00.915 You know, we may potentially take a board observer seat, and look to monitor that, look to work with the company, develop a, a closer relationship. 00:06:00.915 --> 00:06:05.083 And then, you know, sometimes it, graduates into something much more strategic over time. 00:06:05.083 --> 00:06:07.750 And sometimes it just makes sense for us to hold that minority position. 00:06:07.750 --> 00:06:09.833 And so, that's the role in a nutshell. 00:06:09.833 --> 00:06:12.500 It's a bit of strategy, a bit of M&A, a bit of investing. 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:17.208 And, you know, I have the the great pleasure and benefit of working with the executives on all those fronts now. 00:06:17.208 --> 00:06:17.665 Excellent. 00:06:17.665 --> 00:06:34.040 And you know, from my, you know, previous corp dev experience, you know, I was at a bunch of different companies that, you know, I wouldn't describe as like necessarily like leading the industry, necessarily in terms of just how early, we are in some ways, in sort of the crypto space. 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:42.790 And I think it's it's interesting to call out that, you know, Coinbase is really, I think, one of the most, if not the most influential company in the crypto space. Right. 00:06:42.790 --> 00:06:57.083 And when that when you think about the backdrop of that and, and maybe what responsibilities Coinbase has to help shape the industry, shape regulation around the industry from your your vantage point, like what are those responsibilities? 00:06:57.083 --> 00:06:59.458 How do those bleed into your job? 00:06:59.458 --> 00:07:08.665 When you think about just sort of the weight that, Coinbase carries in the industry and sort of overall as it relates to how the industry represents more globally. 00:07:08.665 --> 00:07:10.040 Yeah, it's a great question. 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:12.165 We it is a tremendous responsibility. 00:07:12.165 --> 00:07:16.915 I think I, I share the perspective that, you know, within crypto, Coinbase has a very strong voice. 00:07:16.915 --> 00:07:21.208 And I also share the perspective that crypto is just incredibly early. 00:07:21.208 --> 00:07:28.040 You know, I think from our standpoint, the real competition is kind of against the legacy financial system, not within the, you know, crypto. 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:37.208 I like to say this analogy, which is it's sort of like microbreweries fighting over each other versus fighting over Anheuser-Busch, like kind of losing sight of the bigger picture. 00:07:37.208 --> 00:07:45.500 And so I think from our perspective, the role that we play in the ecosystem is one where we are long term oriented and ecosystem first. 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.833 And, I think emphasis on the long term orientation. 00:07:48.833 --> 00:07:53.790 I think, you know, over a long enough period of time, we believe in the true, you know, potential of this technology. 00:07:53.790 --> 00:08:01.458 And, you know, we view our role as, kind of pushing that forward to the extent possible and that, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. 00:08:01.458 --> 00:08:05.915 And, you know, we have the benefit of being in the ecosystem for a very long time, as you noted. 00:08:05.915 --> 00:08:07.790 You know, we're obviously quite influential on the industry. 00:08:07.790 --> 00:08:14.333 And so, you know, I think our job is that, you know, we want to push this

industry forward, to try to be long term oriented and not worry about the short term. 00:08:14.333 --> 00:08:27.083 You know, one of the reasons I was so excited to have you on a clearly is, is the fact that over the last year, you've led what is like one of the most aggressive and consequential M&A pushes in crypto history, ten deals last year. 00:08:27.375 --> 00:08:40.166 And maybe just to give like my view on this, when I was in corporate development, the idea of doing 5 to 6 deals a year was like really breakneck pace and I just remember thinking, there's no way we could do more than that. 00:08:40.166 --> 00:08:43.125 At least at the companies that I was at. 00:08:43.125 --> 00:08:43.582 Maybe. 00:08:43.582 --> 00:08:48.041 Can you contextualize for the audience what it takes to achieve that kind of velocity? 00:08:48.041 --> 00:08:51.082 I mean, there's there's just I mean, that's a lot of deals. 00:08:51.500 --> 00:08:56.625 And that's not that's just what makes it into the fabric of done deals. Right? 00:08:56.625 --> 00:08:58.875 That's not even talking about the deals that don't get done right. 00:08:58.875 --> 00:09:04.707 So maybe contextualize that for the audience a bit in terms of that push, what it takes to hit that type of velocity. 00:09:04.707 --> 00:09:14.875 So I think it's worth taking a beat on, you know, sort of what is the broader context for why we pursued and had such a strong year in 2025? 00:09:14.875 --> 00:09:19.207 And I think the two driving factors were, beneficial market conditions. 00:09:19.541 --> 00:09:23.707 Obviously through 2025, the broader macro sentiment was positive for crypto. 00:09:23.707 --> 00:09:28.416 And then I think the second driver was, you know, really this push around regulatory clarity. 00:09:28.416 --> 00:09:42.582 I think what those two things are the as the backdrop, it's sort of emboldened us to be, you know, pretty aggressive, but selective in our aggression, a big roadmap, I would say, from an M&A perspective, comes from having a really clear strategy and having a very ambitious strategy. 00:09:42.582 --> 00:09:57.707 And so each of these acquisitions is sort of a hallmark for how do we pull forward the product acceleration or how do we seed new businesses and add, categories that, you know, we otherwise would have been maybe less, excited about pursuing had there not been more regulatory clarity. 00:09:57.707 --> 00:10:04.041 And so, the last case that I'll offer up, I think, on this point is that, you know, look, we've been doing M&A for almost a decade. 00:10:04.041 --> 00:10:08.125 We are sort of, in some respects the the original crypto acquirers. 00:10:08.125 --> 00:10:17.625 And just in my tenure over the last seven years, you know, we've done deals as small as one person to 150 people from a few million bucks to multiple billion dollars. 00:10:17.625 --> 00:10:31.666 And, you know, with that comes, you know, building out the I like to call it, like muscular awareness or kinesthetic awareness on M&A, and how to do these deals and how to integrate them to make sure that you get the value that you think you're going to get out of them. 00:10:31.666 --> 00:10:40.582 And so I think, you know, we're probably in some respects the most, I would say skilled acquirer in terms of just having reps and time. 00:10:40.582 --> 00:10:41.250 Under the belt. 00:10:41.250 --> 00:10:54.082 And, you know, when market conditions are strong and when there's regulatory clarity, I think that muscle allows us to get aggressive, but be selective in that, and try to push forward the roadmap where we can and see the businesses when the opportunities present themselves. 00:10:54.082 --> 00:10:59.957 And you spoke earlier about, what I would describe as the tools in the toolkit, right, for your role. 00:10:59.957 --> 00:11:09.416 And frankly, Coinbase, you know, writ large as it relates to that, really put it in the framework of, you know, you can build, you can go buy, you can partner or you can invest. 00:11:09.416 --> 00:11:23.000 And when I say invest, sort of minority investment, you know, venture investing, so to speak, when you think about each one of those tools in the toolkit, maybe let's describe like what fits each tool for you and where the sort of key decision points are. 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:29.875 And I assume that in some instances it starts as one and could shift to another based on new information, based on how the relationship evolves. 00:11:29.875 --> 00:11:34.916 But how do you think about those tools in your toolkit and when it's most appropriate to use them and not? 00:11:34.916 --> 00:11:36.166 Yeah, it's a great question. 00:11:36.166 --> 00:11:45.000 So I think the first order question we try to answer is, is this a capability or a category that we need to own, or do we think that the answer to that question is yes or no? 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:49.500 And if the answer is yes, that's often we want to buy or we want to build. 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:57.166 And if it's a, something that we don't think it's, you know, near-term, immediate, for us to own it, then maybe we look to partner and or invest. 00:11:57.832 --> 00:11:59.832 So that's I think, the first order question. 00:11:59.832 --> 00:12:21.791 And then I think within that, you know, we sort of look at certain characteristics about opportunities to determine whether it does make sense to own it, or whether it doesn't make sense to own it as one example, you know, for owning it, if it's something related to our core business, trading payments, these sorts of categories, then often the answer is yes, it does make sense for us to own it. 00:12:21.791 --> 00:12:41.041 And, you know, it doesn't always make sense to buy it within that, you know, if it's something that's caught our infrastructure and, you know, incredibly, difficult for us to integrate, maybe we just want to build the capability by comparison, if it's something that, you know, is extremely hard to

build, and it's within our core and we think there's something really unique about it. 00:12:41.041 --> 00:12:44.707 And we think that, a potential target possesses that capability. 00:12:44.707 --> 00:12:50.582 And, then we look to buy, and then I'd say on the other side of the fence, there's investor partner. 00:12:50.582 --> 00:12:56.457 And often that's the case that there is a capability that, you know, we think, oh gosh, it's really, really strategic for us. 00:12:56.457 --> 00:13:00.416 But maybe it's not deeply in our core and it doesn't really make sense for us to own it today. 00:13:00.416 --> 00:13:01.791 Maybe we'll look to do a partnership. 00:13:01.791 --> 00:13:05.791 And in some cases, you know, there's it makes sense to invest alongside that. 00:13:05.791 --> 00:13:10.166 I'd say that's sort of like the set of characteristics that we tend to look at across the toolkit. 00:13:10.166 --> 00:13:11.791 You know, does it make sense for us to own it? 00:13:11.791 --> 00:13:12.625 Yes or no? 00:13:12.625 --> 00:13:14.541 How strategic asset, how urgent is it? 00:13:14.541 --> 00:13:18.332 Do we actually need to own it versus can we get away with just partnering. 00:13:18.332 --> 00:13:28.375 And I would say between those sets of kind of conditions, we try to make a determination on whether we look to buy, build a partner or invest and, try to execute quickly when we figure that out. 00:13:28.375 --> 00:13:28.750 And are there. 00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:37.041 Any factors, that make that more or less complicated to make that decision based on, you know, a couple examples that would come to mind. 00:13:37.041 --> 00:13:38.291 You're a publicly traded company. 00:13:38.291 --> 00:13:45.416 So being a publicly traded company, you have additional responsibilities, whether that's reporting or other ways that you might think about it in terms of your size. 00:13:45.416 --> 00:13:48.375 There also is like sort of the regulatory environment to contend with. 00:13:48.375 --> 00:14:00.041 And so are there different, facets at more of a macro level that are maybe outside of your direct control that influence the way in which you make that determination on the toolkit? Yeah. 00:14:00.041 --> 00:14:01.082 100%. Yes. 00:14:02.125 --> 00:14:09.457 I'd say there's probably a couple of factors, both exogenous as well as in our control, that can make the story a little bit more difficult. 00:14:09.457 --> 00:14:11.000 I think one, you kind of called it out. 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:12.625 We are publicly traded. 00:14:12.625 --> 00:14:18.832 And as much as we, don't, maybe have an appreciation for this in terms of the, the impact. 00:14:18.832 --> 00:14:24.125 But, you know, the macro economic cycle has an impact on our ability to execute on transactions, full stop. 00:14:24.125 --> 00:14:28.625 And, you know, we are obviously long term oriented, but timing does matter in some respects. 00:14:28.625 --> 00:14:30.082 When you're evaluating opportunities. 00:14:30.082 --> 00:14:38.082 And so, you know, you may really want to own something, but you may not be in a position to do so because maybe, you know, you're in a very, very deep bear market. 00:14:38.082 --> 00:14:41.916 Or maybe you want to preserve cash or maybe there are other priorities to pursue at that time. 00:14:41.916 --> 00:14:44.000 And so I'd say macro is probably one piece of it. 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:50.457 The second you also called out regulatory considerations, you know, taking maybe a, a stroll down memory lane. 00:14:50.457 --> 00:15:00.457 There was a period of time where, you know, we were, operating our core trading business, offering, you know, different trading products to both simple retail. 00:15:00.457 --> 00:15:01.791 But as well as advanced traders. 00:15:01.791 --> 00:15:05.500 And this little company called FDX, came on to the scene. 00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:10.832 And, you know, they, in our estimation, were of course, higher on the risk curve. 00:15:10.832 --> 00:15:15.291 But doing things from a regulatory standpoint that we would never been comfortable with in that period of time. 00:15:15.291 --> 00:15:21.000 There's obviously the ESPN highlight reel of, you know, situations where that decision has gone right. 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:22.875 Obviously FDX and no longer anymore. 00:15:22.875 --> 00:15:29.125 And, you know, there are situations that are less on the ESPN highlight reel where, you know, it sort of forced us to contend with our own risk posture. 00:15:29.125 --> 00:15:37.791 And so I'd say we're in an environment now where the risk posture has shifted dramatically and we're much more comfortable, emboldened to take, bigger and bigger risks. 00:15:37.791 --> 00:15:46.500 But there are certainly examples of, you know, in prior environments where, you know, we were just not willing to, to, adjust our risk posture to kind of meet the market. 00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:49.250 And, sometimes that's a good idea and sometimes it's a bad idea. 00:15:49.250 --> 00:15:53.416 But of course, it affects, the impact of potentially by a builder partner. 00:15:53.416 --> 00:15:56.416 I'd say the third one is honestly asset availability. 00:15:56.625 --> 00:16:01.166 So there are often times where, you know, you're like, gosh, there's this new innovation in crypto. 00:16:01.166 --> 00:16:03.207 There's like one company working on it. 00:16:04.291 --> 00:16:09.332 And we're like, gosh, this is the one of the most exciting things we've seen in a really long time. 00:16:09.332 --> 00:16:23.791 You know, be it like a new upgrade to the Ethereum one or, you know, at the time, way back when it was staking, you know, we were really excited about staking and, you know, there was like a handful of maybe less than five companies that were even offering staking services. 00:16:23.791 --> 00:16:33.666 And, you know, we fundamentally believe that, you know, staking is going to be a, a large business opportunity and that, you know,

every proof of stake protocol out there is going to offer staking rewards. 00:16:33.666 --> 00:16:39.000 And that's going to be a novel new way in which retail participants and institutional participants can get value on the tokens that they hold. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.125 And, you know, there wasn't even a there was like maybe less than five companies. 00:16:42.125 --> 00:16:44.500 And so, there are a lot of factors. 00:16:44.500 --> 00:16:48.457 Those are three, you know, macro, regulatory and asset availability. 00:16:48.457 --> 00:16:53.291 There's probably a list of a dozen more that you know, can affect and make the, the decision more difficult. 00:16:53.291 --> 00:17:02.875 And, you know, part of the art behind it is, you know, how do you how do you sort of navigate the complexity to try to, to try to drive the decision to, for the company at the, at the highest level. 00:17:02.875 --> 00:17:07.790 And you hinted at this with, you know, the hindsight's 2020, right? 00:17:08.250 --> 00:17:21.665 And so you can look back and say, you know, great decision not to lean in on FTX and, you know, it also cuts the other way where you probably you've seen opportunities that were really, you know, you're on the fence bound and, and you know, didn't do and were became really exciting opportunities. 00:17:21.665 --> 00:17:39.833 In hindsight, I always think about this the same way as when you complete, you know, sort of transactions in an M&A, you know, standpoint because you spend so much time, you know, you can't disclose when you're talking to a company, you go through a whole process where things are under wraps and then eventually, you know, after all, like the deal, work is done. 00:17:39.833 --> 00:17:42.083 There's an announcement that goes out publicly. 00:17:42.083 --> 00:17:58.790 And I, I always used to revel in the, you know, what I call the public debate on how good or bad a deal sounds, when it hits the public domain, I'm really curious about any deals or which deal in particular. 00:17:58.790 --> 00:18:10.583 You felt there was like the biggest delta between what I would call the public discourse on the deal rationale and like what the internal like rationale was, because I just find that always really fascinating, right? 00:18:10.583 --> 00:18:15.875 Because there's so much work that goes into, why are we going to do this deal and why do we see it as potentially accretive. 00:18:15.875 --> 00:18:21.500 It gets announced, and then the whole public has, like the wisdom of the crowd without any of that information. 00:18:21.500 --> 00:18:29.290 So I'm just really curious where you've seen the biggest delta on a particular deal, or maybe even a type of category that you guys have invested in or bought in? 00:18:29.290 --> 00:18:31.375 Yeah. Great question. 00:18:31.375 --> 00:18:34.790 I'd say that I am in some ways a bit biased for two reasons. 00:18:34.790 --> 00:18:37.790 One, I think the street doesn't understand Coinbase and stock. 00:18:37.958 --> 00:18:47.708 And then I think too personally and maybe a Coinbase view, but I have a general, skepticism around mainstream media and public narratives and positioning. 00:18:47.708 --> 00:18:52.583 But with all that said, I'd say, you know, in general not to pick on any particular deal. 00:18:52.583 --> 00:18:59.458 You know, there is a focus on headlines, around, you know, is this accretive or how much do they pay? 00:18:59.458 --> 00:19:05.000 Or, you know, who's making money and, you know, did it the investors get a return or these sorts of things. 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:10.415 And, you know, from our P.O.V., what we try to focus on is how durable is this opposition? 00:19:10.415 --> 00:19:15.540 And, you know, what is the long term value story look like for us? 00:19:15.750 --> 00:19:18.000 Less about what did we pay in the near term? 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:23.333 Somebody told me once that all good and bad things in life come from compound interest. 00:19:23.958 --> 00:19:41.540 And I think that's a really good way to frame I think, you know, how we think about acquisitions and, you know, maybe just to pick on one particular, you know, we bought this business back in 2020, called to Go Mia, which at the time was an early, institutionally focused prime brokerage platform, which, you know, to be honest, was a pretty novel concept. 00:19:41.540 --> 00:19:45.665 You know, back in the day, you had BitMEX for your purpose, you had Coinbase for your custody. 00:19:45.665 --> 00:19:49.415 You had, you know, multiple different spot exchanges in different jurisdictions. 00:19:49.415 --> 00:20:03.500 And the entire category was really fragmented and if you compare that to what is happening in traffic, you have institutional investors, you have prime brokers, you have integrated Casey, you have access to markets, and you have a variety of different products under one house. 00:20:03.500 --> 00:20:05.165 And, you know, we bought the business. 00:20:05.165 --> 00:20:08.250 And, you know, initially the integration was a little bit challenging. 00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:16.375 You know, was one of our first acquisitions that was just not, you know, a team we had bought a team and technology, you know, the early inklings of a business. 00:20:16.375 --> 00:20:21.583 And, you know, while it was near term, I would say painful, that acquisition is compounded for us. 00:20:21.583 --> 00:20:30.000 Like I would say probably in our top five best deals of all time because, to go me forms the basis for what is today Coinbase Prime. 00:20:30.083 --> 00:20:35.290 It's nearly 20% of Coinbase's overall revenue from the early, to go to the acquisition. 00:20:35.290 --> 00:20:41.375 And the individual who leads that business today was actually the former CEO and co-founder of to go it prior to start. 00:20:41.375 --> 00:20:47.208 And, you know, when I take a step back on like, what are the acquisitions that, you know, the headlines get it wrong.

00:20:47.208 --> 00:20:58.625 You know, I think from our POV, it's there's a near-term focus on, you know, what did somebody pay or what is the you know, are the investors getting paid back we tend to focus on or is this going to compound for years to come? 00:20:58.625 --> 00:21:07.833 And, you know, it could be the case that an acquisition that seems like small on the headlines or maybe not that big of a deal on the headlines, could actually be, you know, quite transformative for Coinbase as a business. 00:21:07.833 --> 00:21:10.000 And those are the types of deals that we try to look for. 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.208 Yeah. 00:21:10.208 --> 00:21:19.250 And I also think from my previous corporate experience, the thing that, folks really underestimate is the, the, the human element of acquisitions. 00:21:19.250 --> 00:21:27.165 I think that, you know, it's very, very difficult when you're not close to the individuals who are part of the entity and team that you're acquiring. 00:21:27.875 --> 00:21:35.625 To just understand whether that's they have vision, whether that's like really killer execution or frankly, just really great domain expertise. 00:21:35.625 --> 00:21:40.790 And how that to your point, can compound in a way that a lot of the market is not really set up to price. 00:21:40.790 --> 00:21:42.083 Well, in my opinion. 00:21:42.083 --> 00:21:44.165 And so that's a really great example. 00:21:44.165 --> 00:21:46.333 People don't talk about integration. 00:21:46.333 --> 00:21:57.665 But in some ways it's like after the deals announced is like when, like the real work starts, there's a ton of work going into structuring and figuring out what it is that you, you know, you want to go acquire. 00:21:57.665 --> 00:22:08.708 But, you know, to your point, the real value, is sort of baked over time, which, you know, really takes into account the ability and the prowess around integration. 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:15.458 So I would love to get your sense of how Coinbase integrates its acquisitions. 00:22:16.458 --> 00:22:18.958 You know, I think this is a combination of process. 00:22:18.958 --> 00:22:19.958 Who's involved? 00:22:19.958 --> 00:22:22.083 How do you measure success? 00:22:22.083 --> 00:22:29.625 So really curious how you would describe that process and how integral you think it is relative to the overall success of an acquisition? 00:22:29.915 --> 00:22:32.333 Integration is very hard. 00:22:32.333 --> 00:22:43.665 And I know that sounds, slightly reductive and maybe minimizing, but truly, I would say, you know, the the conventional wisdom is that most, if not all M&A fails largely due to integration. 00:22:43.665 --> 00:22:46.665 And I could not agree with that sentiment more. 00:22:46.958 --> 00:22:49.958 There are just so many things that you have to get right. 00:22:50.250 --> 00:22:56.333 And if you go down the list, it's just, you know, you just kind of maybe to think for a moment like, okay, you're acquiring your business. 00:22:56.333 --> 00:22:58.750 What are the different disparate components of said business? 00:22:58.750 --> 00:23:04.958 There's the people, there's the product, there's the technology, there's the customers, there's regulatory, there's compliance. 00:23:05.125 --> 00:23:09.750 There is like security, there's workplace, there's tax, there's vendors. 00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:15.125 Like there's a list of 20 to 3 disparate components of what make up a business. 00:23:15.125 --> 00:23:26.915 And to take that and inject it into your own business where there's potentially different operating norms, different systems, different product, different culture, different everything. 00:23:26.915 --> 00:23:29.915 Navigating that is exceptionally difficult. 00:23:30.125 --> 00:23:32.250 So I think that's worth saying. 00:23:30.125 --> 00:23:35.000 I think just out loud, I'd say double clicking within that. 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:39.125 I think we've gotten pretty good over the years on how we approach integration. 00:23:39.125 --> 00:23:40.000 Maybe I'll offer up. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:48.415 There are a couple of characteristics that I've seen, in terms of what has been consistent on when we've seen very successful integrations. 00:23:48.625 --> 00:23:58.375 One of which I would say is, an executive sponsor, an executive team that fully supports, that is pounding the table for the acquisition and practically ripping it out of your hands. 00:23:58.375 --> 00:24:22.290 Anytime you have an acquisition where the acquiring business, is extremely excited and they can't stop texting each other, they can't stop grabbing dinner and their road mapping, and you find out, you know, the next day you're like, oh, gosh, that is a really, really good sign because that shows an overwhelming commitment to run through and walk through the mud that I just described on the complexity related to integration. 00:24:22.583 --> 00:24:31.208 So that's one I think the second piece is a really, really tight strategic rationale, for why you're acquiring this thing in the first place. 00:24:31.208 --> 00:24:37.290 You'd be surprised that, you know, a lot of people like to throw around, hey, this company should buy that company. 00:24:37.290 --> 00:24:43.040 And, you know, it's it's fun to pontificate and talk about, you know, what company should buy, what company. 00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:51.040 But you'd be surprised you get underneath the hood if you just asked a simple question at times to individuals who engage in that, why is why are we buying this thing? 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:52.583 Like, truly, explain it to me. 00:24:52.583 --> 00:25:01.708 These three, the three reasons why we are acquiring this and often the, you know, most cases of, you know, whether we should acquire something or not kind of fall apart at that stage. 00:25:01.708 --> 00:25:12.833 And so when there's a very, very tight strategic rationale, it tends to lead to higher quality integration outcomes because everybody

rallies around those three reasons why we're doing it. 00:25:12.833 --> 00:25:15.375 And again, it makes the mud a little bit easier to walk there. 00:25:15.375 --> 00:25:25.583 I'd say the third, characteristic I've personally seen that leads to, you know, strong integration outcomes, is consistency and sticking to the product roadmap. 00:25:25.583 --> 00:25:34.458 When you're acquiring a company, you are fundamentally paying a dollar amount on the basis of what happens in the future at its most atomic. 00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:34.458 And that is what you're doing. 00:25:34.458 --> 00:25:43.083 And if there is a deviation from said future roadmap and we say, hey, we actually want to chase this other thing here, maybe it's a bigger opportunity, but it's a different risk profile. 00:25:43.083 --> 00:25:57.125 And often it's the case that, you know, if you're deviating from what we kind of said we were going to do, that can lead to, I think really subverts outcomes that I think no one really wants to, to, to kind of, what, we're folks gonna want to avoid that. 00:25:57.125 --> 00:26:05.083 And, you know, sometimes there are situations where it calls for it, where market conditions change dramatically, priorities shift, you know, kind of change dramatically. 00:26:05.083 --> 00:26:13.833 And, you know, sometimes those decisions are justified, but often the case that the an unintended consequence is that, you know, the integration can kind of go a little bit awry. 00:26:13.833 --> 00:26:18.833 But I think the opposite of, like, sticking to it, can, you know, lead to really, really high quality outcomes. 00:26:18.833 --> 00:26:21.540 I don't know if that answers your question, but hopefully a little bit it does. 00:26:21.540 --> 00:26:27.290 I mean, I'm also I'm also, you know, would would almost press you on from your perspective. 00:26:28.165 --> 00:26:37.665 Have there been any of the acquisitions, maybe in the last year where you would say there was a lot of unexpected value that we found as we went through the integration process? 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:40.458 You know, did anything come to mind there? 00:26:40.458 --> 00:26:41.790 Oh my gosh. Yes. 00:26:41.790 --> 00:26:45.415 So, you know, a deal process just to kind of see this out. 00:26:45.415 --> 00:26:56.915 Deal processes it, you know, maybe you get a couple of weeks before you start that before you sign a term sheet, you get maybe a couple of weeks after you sign the term sheet, then you signed and you're getting married. 00:26:56.915 --> 00:26:59.040 Well, that's sort of as the context. 00:26:59.040 --> 00:27:02.125 There have been unexpected, value that come from acquisitions. 00:27:02.125 --> 00:27:14.125 So when we bought Deribit, it was very clear the leadership team was exceptionally strong, that they were the market leader in options, that they had built an exceptional trading system and that their customers loved them. 00:27:14.125 --> 00:27:17.875 I think the things that we didn't

expect was 2 or 3 layers down. 00:27:17.875 --> 00:27:21.165 The two people on this team were absolutely world class. 00:27:21.583 --> 00:27:27.250 And, you know, I'm still hearing, from, you know, some of the folks on the working team that are working on the integration. 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:29.500 My gosh, these guys really know what they're doing. 00:27:29.500 --> 00:27:31.500 They really know what they're doing. 00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:37.708 And you know, it brings ahead of corp dev a lot of joy to hear those things. 00:27:37.708 --> 00:27:47.500 Because there are unexpected, you know, pockets of value that you really didn't anticipate that were obviously aligned with a theme that you sort of, identified as part of the deal process. 00:27:47.500 --> 00:27:52.165 But, you know, it's it's amazing to see it permeate through, an entire organization. 00:27:53.250 --> 00:28:09.458 I'd say other pieces where, you know, we've acquired a license where we said, hey, we're going to unlock this new capability or this new geography, and we actually find out that, you know, this license can actually enable us to access this new product that we weren't thinking about when we bought the company, but became a priority two years later. 00:28:09.458 --> 00:28:10.583 We already have a license for it. 00:28:10.583 --> 00:28:13.583 It's amazing we're able to offer this product yesterday. 00:28:14.250 --> 00:28:16.790 And so there are certain situations where that happens. 00:28:16.790 --> 00:28:23.708 It's oftentimes driven by, you know, obviously truncated deal processes where you just can't possibly cover everything. 00:28:23.708 --> 00:28:26.665 And sometimes that leads to, you know, unexpected pockets of value. 00:28:26.665 --> 00:28:34.833 And also when priorities or the market shifts, you look back at the things that you're, that you bought and you say, gosh, this is unexpected use for it. 00:28:34.833 --> 00:28:37.208 And, you know, that could be obviously quite positive. 00:28:37.208 --> 00:28:46.750 And I know you mentioned that, you know, there's a wide, berth of, you know, size of deal and, and size of company that you have acquired over your time at Coinbase. 00:28:46.958 --> 00:28:52.540 I did want to like zoom in on Dara a bit because, again, it's the largest acquisition, that you all have done. 00:28:52.540 --> 00:28:55.665 And really, I think one of the largest acquisitions done in crypto history. 00:28:56.915 --> 00:29:02.000 I'd love to just double click on how did that deal come to be. 00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:11.083 And, you know, I think there's always really potentially very interesting stories of like, how did we identify the target was a competitive process. 00:29:11.083 --> 00:29:14.250 Is there something that Coinbase saw that others didn't see? 00:29:14.790 --> 00:29:23.665 So I'm just really curious how you would, articulate sort of that particular deal, how it came together and how the process played out. 00:29:23.665 --> 00:29:31.708

So I'd say, you know, we are a strategy first, kind of M&A function where the strategy is the first thing you ask. 00:29:31.708 --> 00:29:34.333 And, you know, when I teed up like, what is my role do? 00:29:34.333 --> 00:29:36.333 That's the first thing I started with. 00:29:36.333 --> 00:29:38.208 And it's, you know, it's important to say that out loud. 00:29:38.208 --> 00:29:44.500 And so in the context of that, derivatives was and continues to be one of the top five company wide priorities. 00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:47.665 And, you know, we want to continue to push in the fold here. 00:29:47.665 --> 00:29:54.000 And I think within derivatives, Deribit has been kind of a long known, name within the industry. 00:29:54.833 --> 00:29:59.458 And, you know, as we were thinking about, okay, well, how do we push derivatives forward? 00:29:59.458 --> 00:30:10.915 We saw Deribit as like an extremely complimentary piece of the puzzle, to complete the vision of offering spot futures, perks, and now options all underneath a single trusted platform. 00:30:11.250 --> 00:30:24.083 And, you know, from, from our perspective, the last of, you know, the remaining pieces of the puzzle to assemble kind of the Avengers of, that most trusted derivatives platform, on the planet. 00:30:24.083 --> 00:30:36.458 And, you know, I think, in terms of where it started and kind of how it came to be, you know, we kind of had this piece of, the strategy in mind and deribit so kind of a long nun, company in that space. 00:30:36.458 --> 00:30:41.250 You know, we continued to be impressed by just the durability of that business. 00:30:41.250 --> 00:30:45.208 And they've been the market leader for options for over three years. 00:30:45.208 --> 00:30:48.208 So you don't see that kind of durability in crypto. 00:30:48.458 --> 00:30:50.458 Things often are quite fleeting. 00:30:50.458 --> 00:30:52.083 And so we were really impressed with that. 00:30:52.083 --> 00:30:58.125 We were really impressed with the team, every individual we met amongst the leadership team, blew us away. 00:30:58.125 --> 00:31:01.250 And, you know, the more and more we pulled, the more and more we liked. 00:31:01.250 --> 00:31:07.125 And, you know, eventually it kind of consummated in obviously some diligence and then into a term sheet. 00:31:07.125 --> 00:31:16.375 And, you know, I would say post close, you know, it's I've been really, really impressed, with the performance of the Deribit business. 00:31:16.375 --> 00:31:20.250 We're already seeing record volumes and revenues since we close the deal. 00:31:20.250 --> 00:31:22.540 It's not just, I would say the largest deal in history. 00:31:22.540 --> 00:31:26.958 It's probably the best performing deal we've done to date, and I couldn't be more excited about that. 00:31:26.958 --> 00:31:41.000 Maybe to highlight one other deal that, to me, stands out, in the last 12 months, or in 2025, echoes often described, I think, by many folks is completing Coinbase's sort of

full stack solution for crypto projects and investors. 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:50.875 Can you talk a little bit about that acquisition in particular, and what particular void it filled for Coinbase, and how you all thought about that from a strategy perspective? 00:31:50.875 --> 00:31:56.750 So this kind of unchained capital formation, you know, vision is is actually quite simple. 00:31:56.750 --> 00:32:05.665 We want to be an end to end platform for any founder to start and scale their business on chain and what that means in crypto is you want to form an LLC. 00:32:05.665 --> 00:32:09.958 You want to get your Cayman BVI entity set up, you want to launch a token. 00:32:09.958 --> 00:32:14.375 You obviously the token, you have investors that you need to deal with. 00:32:14.375 --> 00:32:17.833 You have a cap table, you have employees that you're paying those tokens out to. 00:32:17.833 --> 00:32:19.750 You eventually want to raise primary capital. 00:32:19.750 --> 00:32:27.208 You eventually want to, go to year, get listed, and then you eventually want to drive utility and, you know, acquire distribution for your token. 00:32:27.208 --> 00:32:30.833 And it just so happens that we have a lot of those pieces today. 00:32:30.833 --> 00:32:40.875 And, you know, we acquired for I would say, you know, two of the, you know, a couple of pieces that remained, that, that, that we didn't have, until 20, 25. 00:32:40.875 --> 00:32:45.625 And so one of those is liquefy, liquefy as a token capital management platform. 00:32:45.625 --> 00:32:56.250 It enables, startups that are, looking to, offer a token as part of their products, the ability to manage their cap tables, kind of like a carta for crypto. 00:32:57.083 --> 00:33:09.708 And they handle things like automated vesting, compliance formation, all the kind of nasty stuff that, you know, folks would previously do in spreadsheets or work with lawyers on fully automated within software. 00:33:09.708 --> 00:33:17.208 And the second piece is obviously that goes and then investors are locked out of or have difficulty finding novel new instruments that they want to be a part of. 00:33:17.208 --> 00:33:19.083 And echo helps bridge that gap. 00:33:19.083 --> 00:33:29.083 And if you think about what Coinbase brings to the table, we obviously have significant retail distribution on one end on one hand, and then we have a massive secondary market trading exchange on the other hand. 00:33:29.083 --> 00:33:32.000 And so Echo's sort of solves this pain point. 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:43.790 And then kind of is the last kind of remaining piece of this capital formation stack where now you can come to Coinbase, you can onboard with liquify, which we've now rebranded to Token Manager. 00:33:43.790 --> 00:33:46.500 And then eventually you'll be able to list your token on the Coinbase exchange. 00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:49.375 And then we can help drive distribution and trading for your token. 00:33:49.375 --> 00:33:52.125 It's a

really interesting kind of piece of the puzzle. 00:33:52.125 --> 00:34:01.790 We're both, solving a core problem for a lot of the constituents of the users on our platform, across founders, as well as investors or market participants. 00:34:01.790 --> 00:34:10.125 But it's also very strategically advantageous for Coinbase to offer novel new instruments much earlier than the, competitive landscape. 00:34:10.125 --> 00:34:22.166 And it enables us to, I'd say, go much earlier, serve these customers with better, stronger value propositions, but also own the downstream liquidity and custody and monetization engine associated with these new novel projects. 00:34:22.166 --> 00:34:29.541 And that whole kind of, life cycle of token capital management is, kind of the piece, the piece we're trying to put together. 00:34:29.541 --> 00:34:41.875 It's a really great segue into maybe zooming out a bit because, so much of what I've seen publicly from Coinbase is really the, articulation of a strategy that brands it. 00:34:41.875 --> 00:34:45.458 And, I think puts it forward as the everything exchange. 00:34:46.041 --> 00:34:58.000 And so one, I'd love to ask you as somebody who's, you know, part of the senior leadership at Coinbase, what what does the everything exchange mean in practice. 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:00.083 Like what does that vision represent. 00:35:00.083 --> 00:35:20.125 And then as a secondary component because we just spent a bunch of time talking about how, you know, the M&A strategy has really been put in place to try to bridge gaps or identified sort of areas where we can you can bring those capabilities into the everything exchange strategy, how you see the acquisitions that have been done in 2025. 00:35:20.125 --> 00:35:24.291 And, and, you know, as you think about 2026, how that mosaic fits all together. 00:35:24.291 --> 00:35:30.708 So and it's a really loaded question, but maybe starting with with like everything exchange like what is it. 00:35:30.708 --> 00:35:33.083 What does the vision, what does it mean practically? 00:35:33.083 --> 00:35:38.708 The belief behind the everything exchange is that we basically think that everything is coming on chain. 00:35:38.708 --> 00:35:45.208 And we think that crypto rails offer a faster, cheaper, more accessible rail for, a lot of things in the world. 00:35:45.291 --> 00:35:46.875 And trading was one of the six. 00:35:46.875 --> 00:35:57.583 And so this push around the everything exchange is an acknowledgment that, you know, we want to offer more products, we want to offer more asset classes, and we want to do it in more geographies. 00:35:57.583 --> 00:36:06.791 And, you know, the goal is to be this one stop shop to trade every asset class and, do so in a way that meets their customer's needs, our customers, where they are. 00:36:06.791 --> 00:36:19.166 Back to the theme of being a strategy led deal team, where, you know, we've sort of put down the Gantlet and said, hey, we want to shift and transition as a business for being a single asset class brokerage to being a multi-asset class brokerage. 00:36:19.166 --> 00:36:22.291 Deribit helped us get more products, through options. 00:36:22.291 --> 00:36:27.833 And then, vector helped us expand, more assets through, the salon ecosystem as well. 00:36:27.833 --> 00:36:43.833 And I didn't have this, I didn't think about this before, but is there a, an organization or like, a firm that you all look at and you say, when we grow up or like when we hit, like, insane scale, we want to be like, we want to look like this. 00:36:43.833 --> 00:36:53.958 Is there an organization or a firm that you all look at and say, you know, this is where this is the destination or this is what, like we want to look like in 5 to 10 years? 00:36:54.041 --> 00:37:01.625 I'd say now, you know, we probably look at our, look at ourselves as we want to be the number one global financial platform. 00:37:01.625 --> 00:37:06.416 And we think that crypto is the underlying technology that's going to enable that. 00:37:06.416 --> 00:37:24.041 And so, you know, from that lens that's offering trading, that's offering pads, it's offering custody, offering staking, it's offering every primitive that you can imagine borrowing, lending, spending like essentially every, you know, primitive that you could think of within financial services. 00:37:24.041 --> 00:37:27.041 And doing so not just in the US but globally. 00:37:27.208 --> 00:37:28.875 So that's sort of the ambition. 00:37:28.875 --> 00:37:32.875 Now, is there a number one financial platform globally? 00:37:33.750 --> 00:37:34.541 Not really. 00:37:34.541 --> 00:37:39.083 You can maybe put JPM in there, maybe some of the larger, larger banks. 00:37:39.083 --> 00:37:43.083 But you know, I think the true north is, you know, the number one financial platform globally. 00:37:43.083 --> 00:37:48.083 And you know in service up you know it's mission of obviously, you know, creating an open financial system for the world. 00:37:48.083 --> 00:37:51.083 So when we think about it, look ahead to 2026. 00:37:51.625 --> 00:37:54.625 You just came off a banner year in terms of M&A activity. 00:37:55.541 --> 00:38:13.041 What do you foresee in 2026 and maybe specifically both in terms of activity, that you expect from M&A and then what categories do you think are most exciting, for you and or for the broader crypto industry to watch? 00:38:13.333 --> 00:38:14.208 So it's very timely. 00:38:14.208 --> 00:38:17.041 We spent some time on this with our leadership team. 00:38:17.041 --> 00:38:18.916 Just a few weeks ago. 00:38:18.916 --> 00:38:21.916 I'd say the three things that we're most excited about. 00:38:21.916 --> 00:38:26.083 One, we've already sort of talked about, which is how do we advance crossing exchange. 00:38:26.083 --> 00:38:31.375 And in my mind, it's, again, more asset classes, more products, more geographies. 00:38:31.708 --> 00:38:38.750 And so are there more asset classes

that we think makes sense for us to potentially acquire to bundle into the everything exchange? 00:38:38.750 --> 00:38:40.708 Are there more products? 00:38:40.708 --> 00:38:48.750 You know, obviously there are options, but are there more products that our customers are asking for that makes sense for us to acquire to, again, bundle into the exchange? 00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:59.041 And then geographies, are there geographies that we're, you know, not currently in or smaller relative to, you know, what the potential opportunities in that, in that geography? 00:38:59.333 --> 00:39:03.083 And does it make sense for us to acquire to expand more geographies for the R3 exchange? 00:39:03.083 --> 00:39:07.625 And so I think that is there's a lot of subcategories that are within that. 00:39:07.791 --> 00:39:11.541 But I would say in general, that's the theme that, you know, we're spending most of our time on. 00:39:11.541 --> 00:39:15.791 The second I would say is, stablecoin payments infrastructure. 00:39:15.791 --> 00:39:25.375 You know, we obviously our, direct, you know, our, I guess I should say indirect beneficiaries of our relationship, direct relationship with circle and, and Usdc. 00:39:25.375 --> 00:39:28.708 And, you know, we are obviously a multi stablecoin platform. 00:39:29.375 --> 00:39:40.041 But we have a lot of capabilities that can make us, you know, a pretty interesting, set of products for businesses or developers that want to send and receive payments. 00:39:40.041 --> 00:39:48.375 And, you know, obviously being Usdc and having, you know, a lot of different fiat on and off ramps across the globe. 00:39:48.500 --> 00:39:53.791 We have one of, if not the most trusted custodian, under the, under the sun. 00:39:53.791 --> 00:40:00.375 And when you put all these pieces together, you know, it makes for a pretty compelling Coinbase payments or Coinbase for business type product. 00:40:00.375 --> 00:40:06.000 And, you know, those businesses are, you know, in in many respects in their early days at Coinbase. 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:16.583 And so we're, kind of on the lookout for are there adjacencies or core capabilities that can help accelerate that and augment that platform, and help us differentiate against landscape? 00:40:16.583 --> 00:40:21.958 The third, I would say, is owning more of the on chain infrastructure that exists within crypto. 00:40:22.250 --> 00:40:33.166 You know, we obviously, you know, kind of all know the layers that stack when it comes to the on chain economy, you have the protocols, at the L1 layer, you have the L2 that sit on top. 00:40:33.166 --> 00:40:38.791 You have, you know, infrastructure that sort of sits between that and you have the application layer and ultimately the end users. 00:40:38.791 --> 00:40:43.500 And within that, we obviously own, the retail distribution to the user base. 00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:51.000 We also own a variety of different applications, and we own some infrastructure, as well as at

the L2 layer, with their base. 00:40:51.000 --> 00:41:03.083 And so we're kind of a lookout for are there infrastructural components that exist that are critically important in the crypto economy, for us to own versus just sit on top of and, leverage. 00:41:03.083 --> 00:41:10.458 And so, you know, one, I would say instantiation of this was us putting down the gantlet and saying we're going to build an L2. 00:41:10.458 --> 00:41:13.208 You know, that was, I think, pretty controversial at the time. 00:41:13.208 --> 00:41:16.291 And now obviously, base is one of the most successful L2 is out there. 00:41:16.291 --> 00:41:30.000 And, you know, we're looking to replicate upon that success for does it make sense for us to acquire more at the kind of protocol infrastructure layer, to help, you know, you know, kind of benefit our own customers and push forward our vision of, of the on chain economy. 00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.833 And so I'd say those are kind of the three thing themes, everything exchange stablecoins and payments. 00:41:34.833 --> 00:41:36.541 And then the, onto the infrastructure are probably. 00:41:36.541 --> 00:41:37.250 That's right. 00:41:37.250 --> 00:41:38.750 So my last two questions here. 00:41:38.750 --> 00:41:44.000 So one, what's been the most valuable experience or lesson that you've learned while you've been at Coinbase? 00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:48.750 I would say the importance of patience and long term orientation. 00:41:50.125 --> 00:41:56.375 You know, when I, I guess when we began the interview, I told you about what got me so excited about crypto in the first place. 00:41:56.375 --> 00:42:13.000 And in many respects, it's just this idea that this underlying technology that's cheaper, mass, faster, more efficient has created, you know, entrepreneurs building on top of it, which built products, which then become companies, which then become markets and then can trillions of dollars of value transfer happens, right? 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.291 That is friggin exciting. 00:42:15.291 --> 00:42:23.500 But when you look at the day to day of crypto, oftentimes we get pretty discouraged at what happens in kind of the short term. 00:42:23.500 --> 00:42:26.666 And, you know, that could be near-term market volatility. 00:42:26.666 --> 00:42:29.666 Oh no. Bitcoin crash another 40%. 00:42:30.250 --> 00:42:30.750 Oh no. 00:42:30.750 --> 00:42:32.875 This thing has happened or that company blew up. 00:42:32.875 --> 00:42:37.166 And there's a lot of things that are the near-term in some respects shake the religion. 00:42:37.166 --> 00:42:46.416 And I'd say overwhelmingly Coinbase has taught me to be patient and have long term orientation, because the near term can be so frickin challenging to deal with on a daily basis. 00:42:47.333 --> 00:42:56.958 And I say, you know, to maybe push that lesson even further in, I would say Coinbase again, it comes kind of comes down to compounding. 00:42:56.958 --> 00:43:06.958 I mean, a lot of the things that we did in back in 2018, 2020, I mean, we kind of joke Usdc was kind of maybe sort of built in like a weekend. 00:43:06.958 --> 00:43:12.500 And, you know, there was a small ragtag team and candidly, there wasn't unilateral alignment. 00:43:12.750 --> 00:43:14.875 To do Usdc across the executive team. 00:43:14.875 --> 00:43:26.750 And, you know, it's it's just this idea that, you know, the space is so early and, you know, you make these bets and sometimes they frickin compound and can change the trajectory of the, of the business. 00:43:26.750 --> 00:43:31.625 And, you know, but the day to day can be pretty, can be pretty hard. 00:43:31.625 --> 00:43:33.291 And so I'd say that's probably the biggest lesson. 00:43:33.291 --> 00:43:41.541 So a clear we ask all of our guests for their high stakes hot take, which is their boldest prediction for, the crypto market in 2026. 00:43:41.541 --> 00:43:44.208 So do you have, a hot take? 00:43:44.208 --> 00:43:46.916 Whether whether popular or contrarian? 00:43:46.916 --> 00:43:47.750 Your pick. 00:43:47.750 --> 00:43:54.333 I'm not so sure this is particularly contrary at this point, but I do think that prediction markets will continue to go vertical. 00:43:54.833 --> 00:44:02.875 I think we're living in a world where, everything is financialized, and that's increasingly making its way into the fabric of society. 00:44:02.875 --> 00:44:13.458 And, you know, I look at some of my cousins who are, you know, Gen Zs or even earlier than Gen Z, and they're Kalsi or Poly Market, and they've got a totally different language. 00:44:13.458 --> 00:44:19.625 They're speaking, and you know, I myself, I'm not that old, but I, you know, I open Instagram, I try to post something nowadays. 00:44:19.625 --> 00:44:22.500 I'm like, oh my God, this is not built for me. 00:44:22.500 --> 00:44:31.958 And so I think there's a, there's a generational or demographic shift happening where those people who are younger that are coming online and, you know, it's increasingly more financialized. 00:44:31.958 --> 00:44:45.291 And I also think that, you know, it does serve this really useful function in society where, you know, obviously there's a commercial angle to it where you can hedge out risk if, you know, you want to go long Microsoft short Xboxes, you can do that. 00:44:46.416 --> 00:44:49.583 And so I think it's an important feature for the kind of broader financial markets. 00:44:49.583 --> 00:44:52.458 It's also entertainment. 00:44:49.583 --> 00:44:52.458 People use it as information. 00:44:52.458 --> 00:44:56.000 You know, if you look at the Golden Globes, be like, oh, man, I wonder who's going to win. 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.833 You can look at that as an alternative source of information. 00:44:57.833 --> 00:45:09.458 And I told you how I felt already about mainstream media, and, you know, public narratives, I think I sign up, I would say wholeheartedly to, you know, there being alternative, places to get your news and information. 00:45:09.458 --> 00:45:15.500 And I don't know, I just think that, you know, it's a really beautiful thing that's happening, with prediction markets, my opinion right now. 00:45:15.500 --> 00:45:17.000 And I do think they will continue to go vertical. 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.708 I think it's driven by or obviously regulatory clarity, a demographic shift and this idea that everything is becoming financialized. 00:45:22.708 --> 00:45:28.250 I think it's also going to have utility and use cases that we don't even quite realize yet. 00:45:29.833 --> 00:45:38.250 And, you know, whether that's pricing of insurance policies or other things that we don't really think of, like immediately when we think about engaging with prediction markets. 00:45:38.250 --> 00:45:49.500 And so I totally agree with you that it's made its way into the social fabric in a way that I didn't think was something that I would have predicted, pun intended, but with that, Akhil, we'll park it there. 00:45:49.625 --> 00:45:53.791 Akhil Absa, head of corporate development at Coinbase. 00:45:53.791 --> 00:45:55.250 Thank you for joining High Stakes. 00:45:55.250 --> 00:45:56.708 We look forward to having you on again. 00:45:56.708 --> 00:45:58.791 And thanks for coming on for this one. 00:45:58.791 --> 00:45:59.291 Thanks so much. 00:45:59.291 --> 00:46:01.416 Preciate this one. Absolutely. 00:46:01.416 --> 00:46:05.333 That's a wrap on High Stakes, the podcast where Web3 Meets the real World. 00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:14.791 For more insight into how blockchain and I are reshaping institutions, head to Validation clouds CIO and follow at Validation Cloud across all socials. 00:46:15.333 --> 00:46:19.125 Stay tuned for more conversations from the frontlines of innovation. 00:46:19.125 --> 00:46:21.250 I'm Alex Nauka. See you next time.