התמלול המלא של #489 - Rethinking WordPress, open source, SaaS, and AI for 2027

<00:03:39.113>Okay, <00:03:39.413>I've <00:03:39.833>got <00:03:39.873>the <00:03:39.993>two <00:03:40.193>possible <00:03:40.713>correct <00:03:41.113>answers. <00:03:41.733>So <00:03:41.853>we'll <00:03:42.093>go <00:03:42.213>with <00:03:42.373>Aaron <00:03:42.653>because <00:03:42.853>that's <00:03:43.093>how <00:03:43.213>it <00:03:43.373>comes <00:03:43.593>out <00:03:43.753>of <00:03:43.853>my <00:03:44.013>mouth. <00:03:44.433>It's <00:03:44.793>very <00:03:45.133>nice <00:03:45.433>to <00:03:45.573>have <00:03:45.773>you. <00:03:46.293>Aaron <00:03:46.693>and <00:03:46.813>I <00:03:46.873>got <00:03:47.033>into <00:03:47.213>a <00:03:47.313>chat <00:03:47.493>yesterday <00:03:47.873>on <00:03:48.333>X. <00:03:48.733>We <00:03:48.993>knew <00:03:49.153>that <00:03:49.253>we <00:03:49.393>were... <00:03:49.413>We're <00:03:49.493>doing <00:03:49.593>this <00:03:49.753>podcast <00:03:50.113>episode, <00:03:50.753>and <00:03:50.913>Aaron <00:03:51.333>was <00:03:51.513>sharing <00:03:51.753>a <00:03:51.873>bunch <00:03:52.073>of <00:03:52.213>stuff <00:03:52.413>that <00:03:52.573>he's <00:03:52.733>been <00:03:52.873>doing <00:03:53.153>with <00:03:54.073>AI, <00:03:54.933>and <00:03:55.513>so <00:03:55.993>that <00:03:56.193>probably <00:03:56.593>will <00:03:56.793>be <00:03:56.973>the <00:03:57.313>focus <00:03:57.933>of <00:03:58.133>what <00:03:58.233>we're <00:03:58.373>going <00:03:58.453>to <00:03:58.533>talk <00:03:58.733>about <00:03:58.933>today. 10 00:03:59.393 --> 00:04:09.413 I <00:03:59.693>know <00:03:59.853>it's <00:04:00.013>a <00:04:00.093>banal <00:04:00.373>question, <00:04:01.093>and <00:04:01.593>so <00:04:01.753>hopefully <00:04:02.053>you'll <00:04:02.213>forgive <00:04:02.433>me <00:04:02.593>for <00:04:02.793>it <00:04:02.913>though, <00:04:03.133>Aaron. <00:04:03.553>Can <00:04:03.753>you <00:04:03.853>just <00:04:04.033>introduce <00:04:04.373>yourself <00:04:04.793>quickly <00:04:05.293>so <00:04:05.673>that <00:04:05.833>everybody <00:04:06.133>has <00:04:06.393>an <00:04:06.493>understanding <00:04:06.933>of <00:04:07.133>where <00:04:07.413>you <00:04:07.593>sit <00:04:07.973>in <00:04:08.453>the <00:04:08.553>WordPress <00:04:08.893>space? 11 00:04:09.993 --> 00:04:28.133 Yeah, <00:04:10.513>no <00:04:10.633>problem. <00:04:11.013>So <00:04:11.133>I've <00:04:11.513>been <00:04:11.693>doing <00:04:11.973>web <00:04:12.253>development <00:04:12.673>for <00:04:12.893>30 <00:04:13.133>years. <00:04:13.673>I've <00:04:13.993>got <00:04:14.153>a <00:04:14.313>lot <00:04:14.393>of <00:04:14.493>gray <00:04:14.653>hair <00:04:14.853>because <00:04:15.133>of <00:04:15.313>it. <00:04:15.513>But <00:04:16.513>I <00:04:17.033>started <00:04:17.593>doing <00:04:17.893>PHP <00:04:18.713>in <00:04:19.093>like <00:04:19.273>2000, <00:04:20.173>found <00:04:20.553>WordPress <00:04:21.013>in <00:04:21.353>2005. <00:04:22.093>I <00:04:22.653>didn't <00:04:22.933>really <00:04:23.173>like <00:04:23.453>WordPress, <00:04:23.873>to <00:04:24.933>be <00:04:25.093>honest <00:04:25.413>at <00:04:25.593>that <00:04:25.733>point, <00:04:25.973>because <00:04:26.333>it <00:04:26.633>wasn't <00:04:27.753>great. 12 00:04:29.553 --> 00:04:52.773 Give <00:04:30.153>it <00:04:30.353>a <00:04:30.993>few <00:04:31.193>years. <00:04:31.573>Once <00:04:31.873>we <00:04:31.993>had <00:04:32.153>custom <00:04:32.493>post <00:04:32.753>types <00:04:33.093>and <00:04:33.273>stuff <00:04:33.453>like <00:04:33.593>that, <00:04:33.833>2008 <00:04:34.233>or <00:04:34.653>so, <00:04:34.793>I <00:04:34.933>was <00:04:34.993>like, <00:04:35.253>okay. <00:04:35.673>I <00:04:35.973>had <00:04:36.293>my <00:04:36.433>own <00:04:36.553>little <00:04:36.753>CMF, <00:04:37.433>but <00:04:38.633>WordPress <00:04:39.253>clearly <00:04:39.873>surpassed <00:04:41.453>that <00:04:42.253>around <00:04:43.333>2008 <00:04:43.873>or <00:04:44.293>so. <00:04:44.593>And <00:04:44.953>so <00:04:45.373>I've <00:04:45.593>been <00:04:45.713>doing <00:04:45.853>a <00:04:46.013>lot <00:04:46.113>of <00:04:46.213>WordPress <00:04:46.493>stuff <00:04:46.913>for <00:04:47.153>the <00:04:47.273>past, <00:04:47.613>what, <00:04:48.013>18, <00:04:48.713>20 <00:04:49.093>years <00:04:49.473>or <00:04:49.733>so, <00:04:50.133>and <00:04:50.373>I <00:04:50.493>run <00:04:50.733>an <00:04:51.133>agency <00:04:51.493>called <00:04:51.813>Clockwork <00:04:52.293>Web <00:04:52.533>Dev. 13 00:04:53.325 --> 00:05:20.045 Okay. <00:04:54.285>All <00:04:54.365>right. <00:04:54.545>Well, <00:04:54.685>that's <00:04:54.845>great. <00:04:55.225>So <00:04:55.345>we <00:04:55.545>know <00:04:55.685>that <00:04:55.805>you've <00:04:55.945>been <00:04:56.045>in <00:04:56.165>the <00:04:56.245>web <00:04:56.425>dev <00:04:56.585>space, <00:04:57.005>you've <00:04:57.465>got <00:04:57.605>an <00:04:57.745>agency, <00:04:58.205>and <00:04:58.605>you've <00:04:58.765>been <00:04:58.865>working <00:04:59.125>for <00:04:59.305>many, <00:04:59.525>many <00:04:59.645>years. <00:05:00.845>Things, <00:05:01.385>I <00:05:01.445>guess, <00:05:01.805>are <00:05:01.945>in <00:05:02.105>a <00:05:02.205>state <00:05:02.405>of <00:05:02.565>flux. <00:05:03.325>And <00:05:03.545>although <00:05:03.845>I <00:05:04.285>don't <00:05:04.625>wish <00:05:04.885>you <00:05:05.065>to <00:05:05.345>share <00:05:05.705>anything <00:05:06.045>that <00:05:06.265>you <00:05:06.365>don't <00:05:06.625>wish <00:05:06.865>to <00:05:07.085>share, <00:05:07.465>I <00:05:07.545>know <00:05:07.705>that <00:05:07.825>you've <00:05:08.025>got <00:05:08.125>a <00:05:08.325>little <00:05:08.505>bit <00:05:08.685>of <00:05:08.825>a <00:05:08.925>story <00:05:09.325>about <00:05:10.105>how <00:05:10.545>the <00:05:10.985>roller <00:05:11.265>coaster <00:05:11.665>of <00:05:11.865>agency <00:05:12.225>life <00:05:12.525>has <00:05:12.725>been <00:05:12.945>since <00:05:13.505>the <00:05:13.905>dawn <00:05:14.325>of <00:05:14.525>AI, <00:05:15.185>you know,

<00:05:15.365>the <00:05:15.465>sort <00:05:15.605>of <00:05:15.705>mainstream <00:05:16.165>ChatGPT2 <00:05:18.865>and <00:05:19.685>beyond. 14 00:05:20.045 --> 00:05:25.785 Do <00:05:20.405>you <00:05:20.485>just <00:05:20.605>want <00:05:20.705>to <00:05:20.825>briefly <00:05:21.345>share <00:05:21.685>how <00:05:21.865>it's <00:05:22.045>gone <00:05:22.265>for <00:05:22.425>you <00:05:22.685>and <00:05:22.865>the <00:05:22.965>agency? <00:05:23.565>Again, <00:05:24.105>only <00:05:24.365>sharing <00:05:24.645>the <00:05:24.785>bits <00:05:24.965>that <00:05:25.085>you're <00:05:25.245>comfortable <00:05:25.505>with? 15 00:05:25.905 --> 00:06:18.960 Yeah, <00:05:26.125>yeah. <00:05:26.465>So, <00:05:26.765>I <00:05:26.805>mean, <00:05:27.125>I <00:05:28.025>started <00:05:29.085>Clockwork <00:05:29.805>in <00:05:30.345>2019. <00:05:32.125>I <00:05:32.565>had <00:05:32.725>sold <00:05:33.105>my <00:05:33.485>other <00:05:33.825>agency, <00:05:34.465>Sideways <00:05:34.805>8, <00:05:35.405>and <00:05:35.865>we <00:05:37.525>started <00:05:38.565>off <00:05:38.785>really, <00:05:39.265>really <00:05:40.005>small. <00:05:40.485>It <00:05:40.525>was <00:05:40.665>just <00:05:40.945>me. <00:05:41.325>And <00:05:42.565>then <00:05:42.785>around <00:05:43.085>2000 <00:05:43.505>and <00:05:44.225>was <00:05:45.345>it <00:05:45.485>23 <00:05:45.945>or <00:05:46.465>so, <00:05:47.085>my <00:05:47.305>business <00:05:47.645>was <00:05:47.945>growing <00:05:48.325>from <00:05:48.985>between <00:05:49.465>23 <00:05:50.025>and <00:05:50.185>24. <00:05:51.280>Our <00:05:51.700>revenue, <00:05:52.820>we <00:05:53.300>had <00:05:53.440>a <00:05:53.580>revenue <00:05:53.860>increase <00:05:54.360>of <00:05:54.680>about <00:05:55.060>83%, <00:05:56.280>and <00:05:57.200>we <00:05:57.600>hired, <00:05:58.380>yeah, <00:05:58.640>with <00:05:59.740>that <00:06:00.040>meant <00:06:00.380>we <00:06:00.620>had <00:06:00.760>to <00:06:00.840>hire <00:06:01.080>a <00:06:01.220>lot <00:06:01.300>of <00:06:01.400>people, <00:06:01.680>too, <00:06:02.200>because <00:06:03.000>we <00:06:03.320>were <00:06:03.460>just, <00:06:03.860>we <00:06:04.640>had <00:06:04.780>a <00:06:04.920>ton <00:06:05.320>of <00:06:05.540>work, <00:06:06.040>and <00:06:07.140>I <00:06:07.600>was, <00:06:07.980>we <00:06:08.140>were <00:06:08.300>projecting, <00:06:09.100>you <00:06:09.420>know, <00:06:09.560>2024, <00:06:10.440>wow, <00:06:10.880>2025 <00:06:11.200>is <00:06:11.600>going <00:06:11.720>to <00:06:11.760>be <00:06:11.880>great, <00:06:12.340>and <00:06:13.520>then <00:06:14.000>2025 <00:06:15.280>rolled <00:06:15.820>around, <00:06:16.380>and <00:06:16.660>you <00:06:16.940>have <00:06:17.380>a <00:06:17.920>new <00:06:18.500>president, 16 00:06:19.760 --> 00:06:43.120 which, <00:06:20.200>that's, <00:06:20.820>that <00:06:20.900>gives <00:06:21.080>you <00:06:21.220>some <00:06:21.480>uncertainty, <00:06:22.080>but <00:06:22.800>then <00:06:22.940>you <00:06:23.060>also <00:06:23.320>had <00:06:23.820>a <00:06:24.320>president <00:06:24.660>that <00:06:24.940>decides <00:06:25.400>to <00:06:26.020>mess <00:06:27.760>with <00:06:27.960>all <00:06:28.100>the <00:06:28.240>tariffs, <00:06:28.780>and <00:06:29.820>then <00:06:30.040>it <00:06:30.340>felt <00:06:30.580>like, <00:06:31.200>around, <00:06:31.420>like, <00:06:31.840>May, <00:06:32.420>or, <00:06:32.800>I <00:06:32.960>don't <00:06:33.020>know, <00:06:33.120>April, <00:06:33.460>May, <00:06:33.680>or <00:06:33.760>so, <00:06:35.500>AI <00:06:35.760>became, <00:06:36.660>I <00:06:37.140>mean, <00:06:37.360>we <00:06:37.620>were <00:06:37.760>all <00:06:37.940>talking <00:06:38.420>about <00:06:38.780>AI, <00:06:39.560>you <00:06:39.720>know, <00:06:39.860>before <00:06:40.160>then, <00:06:40.780>but <00:06:40.960>it <00:06:41.520>wasn't, <00:06:42.300>it... 17 00:06:43.327 --> 00:06:54.667 It <00:06:43.847>wasn't <00:06:44.467>that <00:06:45.547>usable, <00:06:46.527>you <00:06:47.107>know, <00:06:47.367>to <00:06:47.467>be <00:06:47.807>honest. <00:06:48.907>No, <00:06:49.207>it was <00:06:49.347>making <00:06:49.627>images <00:06:50.007>and <00:06:50.247>having <00:06:50.447>a <00:06:50.567>bit <00:06:50.687>of <00:06:50.827>a <00:06:50.947>giggle <00:06:51.287>around <00:06:51.527>the <00:06:51.687>edges, <00:06:52.147>wasn't <00:06:52.307>it? <00:06:52.607>Nothing <00:06:52.847>much <00:06:53.487>more <00:06:53.727>substantive, <00:06:54.567>yeah. 18 00:06:55.007 --> 00:07:22.167 But <00:06:55.347>by <00:06:55.567>the <00:06:55.807>end <00:06:56.267>of <00:06:56.527>2025, <00:06:57.587>I <00:06:57.627>mean, <00:06:57.887>well, <00:06:58.467>in <00:06:58.707>2025 <00:06:59.187>I <00:06:59.787>tried <00:07:00.407>to <00:07:00.547>use <00:07:01.067>Cursor <00:07:02.247>to <00:07:02.567>write <00:07:03.527>a <00:07:03.847>WordPress <00:07:04.287>plugin <00:07:04.787>and <00:07:05.647>it <00:07:06.367>couldn't <00:07:07.327>write, <00:07:08.067>it <00:07:08.167>wrote <00:07:08.367>the <00:07:08.527>plugin <00:07:08.867>in <00:07:09.007>the <00:07:09.087>wrong <00:07:09.327>directory. <00:07:09.867>You <00:07:10.307>know, <00:07:10.527>I <00:07:10.547>went <00:07:10.967>in <00:07:11.127>and <00:07:11.287>I <00:07:11.427>said, <00:07:13.127>it <00:07:13.947>said, <00:07:14.727>I'm <00:07:14.987>done, <00:07:15.267>the <00:07:15.347>plugin's <00:07:15.787>there. <00:07:16.227>And <00:07:16.287>I'm <00:07:16.427>like, <00:07:16.647>well, <00:07:16.807>I <00:07:16.847>don't <00:07:17.027>see <00:07:17.207>the <00:07:17.367>plugin. <00:07:17.907>And <00:07:17.967>so <00:07:18.087>I <00:07:18.207>went <00:07:18.407>into <00:07:18.667>the <00:07:18.947>files <00:07:19.547>and <00:07:19.707>I <00:07:19.787>was <00:07:19.907>like, <00:07:20.147>oh, <00:07:20.647>you <00:07:20.847>put <00:07:21.107>it <00:07:21.227>in <00:07:21.347>the <00:07:21.407>wrong <00:07:21.647>directory. 19 00:07:23.027 --> 00:07:42.867 That's <00:07:23.387>not <00:07:23.527>a

<00:07:23.687>problem <00:07:23.987>anymore. <00:07:24.647>AI <00:07:24.867>has <00:07:25.687>clearly <00:07:26.427>surpassed, <00:07:27.607>you <00:07:27.907>know, <00:07:28.247>those <00:07:28.627>stupid <00:07:29.287>problems. <00:07:29.867>And <00:07:30.267>I <00:07:30.427>think <00:07:30.807>AI <00:07:31.407>really <00:07:32.147>around <00:07:32.627>November, <00:07:34.147>December <00:07:34.467>of <00:07:34.727>2025 <00:07:35.187>is <00:07:35.667>where <00:07:35.987>I <00:07:36.747>started <00:07:37.107>building <00:07:37.447>stuff <00:07:37.807>where <00:07:38.007>I'm <00:07:38.107>like, <00:07:38.467>okay, <00:07:38.867>this <00:07:39.027>is <00:07:39.267>better <00:07:39.967>than <00:07:40.247>what <00:07:40.507>I <00:07:40.967>used <00:07:41.947>to <00:07:42.127>be <00:07:42.247>able <00:07:42.387>to <00:07:42.507>write. 20 00:07:43.147 --> 00:07:56.472 Right. <00:07:44.067>And <00:07:44.247>that <00:07:44.567>started <00:07:45.127>changing <00:07:46.207>everything. <00:07:47.732>And <00:07:48.392>so <00:07:48.972>how <00:07:49.172>did <00:07:49.332>it <00:07:49.492>work <00:07:50.072>out <00:07:50.312>with <00:07:50.492>your <00:07:50.672>clients? <00:07:51.292>Did <00:07:51.392>you <00:07:51.732>sort <00:07:52.332>of <00:07:52.452>maintain, <00:07:52.932>you <00:07:53.612>know, <00:07:53.812>revenue <00:07:54.052>or <00:07:54.252>did <00:07:54.392>2025 <00:07:54.812>turn <00:07:55.332>out <00:07:55.492>to <00:07:55.612>be <00:07:55.712>a <00:07:55.852>difficult <00:07:56.132>year? 21 00:07:56.732 --> 00:08:06.232 So 2025 was a little a dip. Probably, I don't have the numbers in my head, but it felt like around 10%, 10% decrease. 22 00:08:06.232 --> 00:08:12.072 Okay. <00:08:07.272>I <00:08:07.792>mean, <00:08:09.132>which <00:08:09.252>makes <00:08:10.412>sense. <00:08:10.712>And <00:08:10.952>we <00:08:11.092>also <00:08:11.392>downsized. 23 00:08:12.072 --> 00:08:25.192 I <00:08:12.352>mean, <00:08:12.612>because <00:08:12.832>we <00:08:13.092>because <00:08:13.612>of <00:08:13.912>the <00:08:14.092>uncertainty, <00:08:14.692>we <00:08:15.452>had <00:08:15.672>to <00:08:15.972>get <00:08:16.292>rid <00:08:16.452>of <00:08:16.572>some <00:08:16.732>contractors <00:08:17.252>and <00:08:17.552>some <00:08:17.752>employees, <00:08:18.212>which <00:08:18.572>nobody <00:08:19.512>likes <00:08:19.952>doing, <00:08:20.572>you <00:08:21.292>know, <00:08:21.652>but <00:08:22.052>so <00:08:22.532>we <00:08:22.772>went <00:08:23.132>from <00:08:23.372>15 <00:08:23.832>people. <00:08:24.512>Now <00:08:24.632>we're <00:08:24.812>eight. 24 00:08:25.912 --> 00:08:27.512 Okay. <00:08:26.892>Wow. <00:08:27.352>Yeah. 25 00:08:28.152 --> 00:08:51.192 2026, you know, January 2026. I was like, I really, really nervous. And we've had to really pivot our business to to build things in a in a different way, in a more efficient way. And that's that's what what I've done. And I'm my in within my business right now. 26 00:08:51.192 --> 00:08:51.432 All right.

27 00:08:51.598 --> 00:09:08.098 I'm <00:08:51.998>mostly <00:08:52.498>just <00:08:53.638>building <00:08:54.038>tools <00:08:54.538>that <00:08:54.998>make <00:08:55.278>my <00:08:55.518>team <00:08:56.018>more <00:08:56.618>productive <00:08:57.278>or <00:08:57.718>things <00:08:58.078>that <00:08:58.438>are <00:08:58.598>fun, <00:08:59.238>which <00:08:59.778>is, <00:09:00.118>I <00:09:01.058>wasn't <00:09:01.738>there, <00:09:02.278>I <00:09:02.618>mean, <00:09:02.938>I've <00:09:03.318>never <00:09:03.518>been <00:09:03.758>in <00:09:04.058>a <00:09:04.158>business <00:09:04.418>where <00:09:04.658>I'm <00:09:04.798>just <00:09:04.998>building <00:09:05.358>tools <00:09:05.878>that <00:09:06.398>make <00:09:07.218>me <00:09:07.418>more <00:09:07.638>efficient. 28 00:09:08.538 --> 00:09:26.738 Right, <00:09:09.278>and <00:09:09.758>has <00:09:10.478>that <00:09:10.758>pessimism, <00:09:12.198>that's <00:09:12.438>probably <00:09:12.658>the <00:09:12.778>wrong <00:09:12.938>word <00:09:13.138>because <00:09:13.278>you <00:09:13.398>certainly <00:09:13.638>don't <00:09:13.918>sound <00:09:14.178>pessimistic <00:09:14.838>in <00:09:15.098>the <00:09:15.418>way <00:09:15.538>that <00:09:15.658>you <00:09:15.758>describe <00:09:16.098>that, <00:09:16.398>but <00:09:16.458>has <00:09:16.678>that <00:09:16.938>2026, <00:09:19.078>and <00:09:19.198>I <00:09:19.518>guess <00:09:19.678>looking <00:09:19.918>forward <00:09:20.158>into <00:09:20.378>2027, <00:09:21.158>have <00:09:21.258>things <00:09:21.478>flipped, <00:09:21.898>have <00:09:21.978>they <00:09:22.098>become <00:09:22.358>much <00:09:22.778>more <00:09:23.038>like <00:09:23.298>2024 <00:09:23.698>again, <00:09:24.238>or <00:09:24.578>have <00:09:24.738>they <00:09:24.858>continued <00:09:25.318>to <00:09:25.698>trouble <00:09:26.438>you? 29 00:09:27.578 --> 00:10:22.115 Yeah, <00:09:28.818>there's <00:09:29.218>still <00:09:30.458>a <00:09:30.978>major <00:09:31.678>level <00:09:32.778>of <00:09:33.058>uncertainty, <00:09:33.558>because <00:09:35.198>every <00:09:37.158>week <00:09:37.538>there's <00:09:37.878>a <00:09:37.998>new <00:09:38.398>tool, <00:09:39.798>there's <00:09:39.958>a <00:09:40.078>new <00:09:40.258>thing, <00:09:40.858>there's <00:09:42.318>art <00:09:42.698>craft <00:09:43.218>that <00:09:43.678>replaces <00:09:45.018>Photoshop <00:09:45.638>and <00:09:45.918>Illustrator <00:09:46.458>and <00:09:46.658>all <00:09:46.738>that <00:09:46.898>stuff, <00:09:47.138>and <00:09:47.298>it's <00:09:47.458>all <00:09:47.578>open <00:09:47.818>source. <00:09:48.418>It's <00:09:48.478>like, <00:09:48.798>it <00:09:48.998>seems <00:09:49.538>like <00:09:49.818>a <00:09:50.358>lot <00:09:50.578>of <00:09:50.718>things <00:09:51.118>are... <00:09:52.195>Kind <00:09:52.655>of <00:09:52.895>collapsing <00:09:54.155>when <00:09:54.775>it <00:09:54.915>comes <00:09:55.215>to <00:09:55.675>software <00:09:56.535>in <00:09:56.835>general. <00:09:57.315>And <00:09:57.355>I <00:09:57.455>keep <00:09:57.675>saying <00:09:57.975>software <00:09:58.455>is <00:09:58.695>dead. <00:09:58.975>I <00:09:59.375>mean, <00:09:59.775>because <00:10:00.255>software <00:10:00.875>is <00:10:01.495>not <00:10:01.755>what <00:10:01.975>it <00:10:02.155>used <00:10:02.415>to <00:10:02.555>be. <00:10:03.535>And <00:10:04.135>I'm <00:10:05.515>glad <00:10:05.795>I'm <00:10:06.015>not <00:10:06.235>in <00:10:06.435>the <00:10:06.835>SaaS <00:10:07.735>business <00:10:09.595>because <00:10:09.995>I <00:10:10.395>think <00:10:10.595>everybody <00:10:10.995>is <00:10:11.255>just <00:10:11.535>rebuilding <00:10:12.815>the <00:10:13.115>tool <00:10:13.495>that <00:10:14.355>is <00:10:14.615>specific <00:10:15.095>to <00:10:15.335>their <00:10:15.595>needs <00:10:16.175>and <00:10:16.995>they're <00:10:17.495>canceling <00:10:18.755>their <00:10:19.295>subscription <00:10:19.875>to <00:10:20.315>the <00:10:20.715>SaaS. 30 00:10:22.195 --> 00:10:50.335 And so 2027, I think, is going to be really rough for those SaaS people. For us as an agency, it very well could be very, I mean, it's going to be uncertain, but we've pivoted a little bit. We're offering, we were doing 99% WordPress, but now we're doing astro sites. Because as a business grows, it's always hard to... 31 00:10:51.157 --> 00:11:31.877 It's difficult to go back to a client when you build a website five years ago and they need a new website. It's hard to offer them the $3,000 site that I did five years ago because our prices have gone up and stuff like that. But with AI, we've been able to still, we have offerings, whereas before we didn't have offerings. You know, it needed to be a $15,000, $20,000 website if it's going to be on WordPress, but we've been building these websites with WordPress, building them with a CMS that they can go in and make the changes, which is great. 32 00:11:31.877 --> 00:12:02.827 And <00:11:32.177>that <00:11:32.317>works <00:11:32.637>for <00:11:32.957>lots <00:11:33.877>of <00:11:34.017>clients. <00:11:34.357>But <00:11:34.717>there's <00:11:35.157>also <00:11:35.577>a <00:11:36.277>slew <00:11:36.597>of <00:11:36.737>our <00:11:36.877>clients <00:11:37.237>that <00:11:37.477>will <00:11:37.717>just <00:11:38.257>send <00:11:39.117>an <00:11:40.097>email <00:11:40.397>saying, <00:11:40.857>hey, <00:11:41.057>can <00:11:41.157>you <00:11:41.297>drop <00:11:41.557>this <00:11:41.837>text <00:11:42.157>in <00:11:42.377>and <00:11:42.517>this <00:11:42.697>photo? <00:11:43.257>And <00:11:43.577>then <00:11:43.697>at <00:11:43.837>that <00:11:44.017>point, <00:11:44.337>it's <00:11:45.157>like, <00:11:45.817>why <00:11:45.897>are <00:11:46.057>we <00:11:46.197>using <00:11:46.497>a <00:11:46.617>database? <00:11:47.217>Why <00:11:47.357>are <00:11:47.477>we <00:11:47.577>using <00:11:47.797>WordPress <00:11:48.237>if... <00:11:49.707>And <00:11:49.947>that's <00:11:50.587>how <00:11:51.667>it's <00:11:51.927>going <00:11:52.027>to <00:11:52.107>work.

<00:11:52.527>And <00:11:52.907>so <00:11:53.067>we've <00:11:53.647>been <00:11:53.767>doing <00:11:53.987>more <00:11:54.307>static <00:11:54.867>builds, <00:11:56.127>which <00:11:56.327>I <00:11:56.727>never <00:11:56.987>thought. <00:11:57.447>A <00:11:57.527>year <00:11:57.687>ago, <00:11:57.887>I <00:11:57.987>didn't <00:11:58.207>think <00:11:58.427>we <00:11:58.607>were <00:11:58.707>going <00:11:58.827>to <00:11:58.887>be <00:11:59.007>building <00:11:59.487>static <00:12:00.467>astro <00:12:01.047>sites, <00:12:01.507>but <00:12:01.667>that's <00:12:01.987>where <00:12:02.407>we <00:12:02.567>are. 33 00:12:03.247 --> 00:12:28.727 And <00:12:03.547>has <00:12:03.807>AI <00:12:04.507>become <00:12:04.807>an <00:12:04.967>integral <00:12:05.227>part <00:12:05.547>of <00:12:05.647>that? <00:12:05.867>In <00:12:05.967>other <00:12:06.087>words, <00:12:06.627>on <00:12:06.867>the <00:12:07.247>WordPress <00:12:07.547>side, <00:12:08.087>probably <00:12:08.327>you're <00:12:08.547>so <00:12:08.767>familiar <00:12:09.087>with <00:12:09.247>how <00:12:09.387>it <00:12:09.507>works <00:12:09.747>that <00:12:09.887>you <00:12:09.987>can <00:12:10.147>do <00:12:10.607>all <00:12:10.767>of <00:12:10.847>that <00:12:10.967>stuff <00:12:11.187>in <00:12:11.307>your <00:12:11.447>sleep. <00:12:11.747>On <00:12:12.047>the <00:12:12.467>astro <00:12:13.307>side <00:12:13.547>of <00:12:13.647>things, <00:12:14.087>have <00:12:14.467>you <00:12:14.747>learned <00:12:15.527>that <00:12:15.767>in <00:12:16.067>tandem <00:12:16.527>with <00:12:16.827>AI? <00:12:17.127>Or <00:12:17.767>have <00:12:17.967>you, <00:12:18.207>you <00:12:18.507>know, <00:12:18.667>got <00:12:18.827>yourself <00:12:19.167>fully <00:12:19.507>skilled <00:12:19.827>in <00:12:20.067>the <00:12:20.147>same <00:12:20.327>way <00:12:20.467>that <00:12:20.587>you <00:12:20.687>were <00:12:20.887>with <00:12:21.067>WordPress? <00:12:21.567>Or <00:12:21.627>are <00:12:21.787>with <00:12:21.947>WordPress? <00:12:22.827>Or <00:12:23.227>have <00:12:23.447>you <00:12:23.607>just <00:12:23.827>sort <00:12:24.027>of, <00:12:24.247>okay, <00:12:24.547>let's <00:12:24.807>just <00:12:25.007>work <00:12:25.227>with <00:12:25.367>an <00:12:25.487>AI <00:12:25.707>to <00:12:26.047>make <00:12:26.447>the <00:12:26.567>astro <00:12:26.887>sites. <00:12:27.287>And <00:12:27.367>that's <00:12:27.567>how <00:12:27.687>we're <00:12:27.847>going <00:12:27.907>to <00:12:27.987>do <00:12:28.107>it <00:12:28.227>going <00:12:28.407>forward. 34 00:12:28.967 --> 00:13:10.596 So I'd like, at this point, I would like to lie in the interview and say, I know astro forwards and backwards. I know what I need to know. I haven't done, to be honest, like there, there's some things in astro that I'm not super familiar with, like islands. Like islands and things like that, but... The SSR, the server-side rendering stuff, like, we're using that. We're not just building static sites with that. So, like, for example, the Shuffle thing that I gave you, that's an Astro site that it does have a database. It uses the Neon Postgres database to do that. 35 00:13:10.596 --> 00:13:27.516 So, <00:13:10.836>correct. <00:13:13.136>I <00:13:13.256>don't <00:13:13.496>know <00:13:13.756>it <00:13:13.976>the <00:13:14.276>way <00:13:14.576>I <00:13:14.816>know <00:13:15.056>WordPress, <00:13:15.576>but <00:13:16.196>I <00:13:16.516>also <00:13:16.796>have <00:13:17.096>20 <00:13:17.456>years <00:13:17.716>of <00:13:17.916>WordPress <00:13:18.336>experience. <00:13:19.176>So, <00:13:19.576>give <00:13:20.236>me <00:13:20.416>time, <00:13:20.836>you <00:13:21.216>know, <00:13:21.416>and <00:13:21.616>I <00:13:21.776>feel <00:13:22.136>like <00:13:22.316>I'll <00:13:22.556>know <00:13:23.016>it <00:13:23.236>almost <00:13:24.676>as <00:13:24.976>well <00:13:25.176>as <00:13:25.356>WordPress, <00:13:25.996>but <00:13:26.116>it's <00:13:26.576>just <00:13:26.796>going <00:13:26.956>to <00:13:27.016>take <00:13:27.196>time. 36 00:13:27.516 --> 00:13:55.876 So, the curious thing there is, I wonder at what point we all collectively stopped worrying about what we knew, because I remember this sort of similar conversation to this maybe, I don't know, two years ago, three years ago, something like that, and there was this certain sense of, okay, I'm going to build it with AI, and then I'm going to double-check everything, and then I'm going to do this next thing, and then I'm going to double-check everything. And I don't know when the moment was, but definitely at some point. 37 00:13:56.343 --> 00:14:26.343 That <00:13:56.763>conversation <00:13:57.343>flipped. <00:13:57.903>And <00:13:58.023>it's <00:13:58.223>now <00:13:58.483>to <00:13:58.683>the <00:13:58.803>point <00:13:59.043>where <00:13:59.363>I <00:13:59.543>think <00:13:59.683>most <00:14:00.123>people <00:14:00.503>with <00:14:00.743>the <00:14:00.883>AI, <00:14:01.543>they've <00:14:02.203>kind <00:14:02.543>of <00:14:02.703>reconciled <00:14:03.423>that <00:14:03.583>in <00:14:03.723>their <00:14:03.883>head. <00:14:04.263>I'm <00:14:04.663>going <00:14:04.763>to <00:14:04.823>get <00:14:04.943>the <00:14:05.063>AI <00:14:05.343>to <00:14:05.543>do <00:14:05.703>it. <00:14:05.983>I'm <00:14:06.143>now <00:14:06.423>going <00:14:06.643>to <00:14:06.783>have <00:14:06.943>a <00:14:07.043>certain <00:14:07.283>degree <00:14:07.563>of <00:14:07.903>trust <00:14:08.243>in <00:14:08.403>it. <00:14:08.603>Only <00:14:08.863>when <00:14:09.083>it's <00:14:09.243>broken <00:14:09.523>on <00:14:09.683>the <00:14:09.783>front <00:14:09.983>end <00:14:10.223>will <00:14:10.503>I <00:14:10.683>feel <00:14:11.023>the <00:14:11.223>need <00:14:11.423>to <00:14:11.603>go <00:14:11.743>and <00:14:11.883>check <00:14:12.123>things. <00:14:12.423>I <00:14:12.923>don't <00:14:13.063>know <00:14:13.143>if <00:14:13.223>that's <00:14:13.463>the <00:14:13.603>case <00:14:13.823>with <00:14:13.983>you <00:14:14.123>still, <00:14:14.403>or

<00:14:14.643>if <00:14:14.803>because <00:14:15.043>you're <00:14:15.243>becoming <00:14:15.583>familiar <00:14:15.883>with <00:14:16.103>Astro <00:14:16.423>and <00:14:16.563>things <00:14:16.743>like <00:14:16.903>that, <00:14:17.103>if <00:14:17.163>you're <00:14:17.323>still <00:14:17.583>doing <00:14:17.843>the <00:14:17.983>double <00:14:18.183>checking, <00:14:18.703>but <00:14:18.863>most <00:14:20.623>of <00:14:20.763>the <00:14:20.843>people <00:14:21.043>that <00:14:21.183>I've <00:14:21.323>spoken <00:14:21.623>to <00:14:21.803>have <00:14:22.043>definitely <00:14:22.523>jettisoned <00:14:23.263>that <00:14:23.443>as <00:14:23.643>a <00:14:23.743>part <00:14:23.943>of <00:14:24.063>their <00:14:24.223>process. <00:14:24.623>It's <00:14:24.883>just <00:14:25.083>check <00:14:25.383>it <00:14:25.503>if <00:14:25.663>it <00:14:25.763>goes <00:14:26.003>wrong. 38 00:14:27.083 --> 00:14:55.543 Um, <00:14:28.123>I'm, <00:14:28.663>I'm <00:14:29.603>probably <00:14:29.963>in, <00:14:30.563>in <00:14:30.743>that <00:14:31.043>camp, <00:14:31.783>um, <00:14:32.563>where <00:14:33.023>I <00:14:33.623>am, <00:14:34.123>but <00:14:34.323>the <00:14:35.043>way <00:14:35.483>I <00:14:35.883>do <00:14:36.163>it <00:14:36.363>is <00:14:36.703>I'm, <00:14:37.103>I'm <00:14:37.363>using <00:14:37.743>other <00:14:38.163>LLMs <00:14:38.743>to <00:14:38.983>check <00:14:39.423>the <00:14:40.023>work <00:14:40.383>of <00:14:40.703>the <00:14:40.883>other <00:14:41.123>LLMs, <00:14:41.903>which <00:14:42.103>I <00:14:42.483>think <00:14:42.963>is, <00:14:43.783>you <00:14:44.223>kind <00:14:44.723>of <00:14:44.883>have <00:14:45.083>to <00:14:45.243>realize <00:14:45.643>that, <00:14:46.203>um, <00:14:48.623>programmers <00:14:48.703>that <00:14:49.983>are, <00:14:50.323>that <00:14:50.443>are <00:14:50.583>out <00:14:50.803>there. <00:14:51.443>I <00:14:51.943>mean, <00:14:52.303>I've, <00:14:52.943>I've <00:14:53.303>seen <00:14:53.643>in <00:14:53.983>my <00:14:54.263>career <00:14:54.783>plugins. 39 00:14:55.543 --> 00:15:11.845 In <00:14:56.483>the <00:14:56.683>WordPress <00:14:57.043>repo <00:14:57.623>that <00:14:58.203>are <00:14:58.483>horribly <00:14:59.223>written. <00:15:00.303>Um, <00:15:00.943>and, <00:15:01.423>and <00:15:01.523>it's <00:15:01.743>like, <00:15:02.385>So, <00:15:03.265>but <00:15:04.245>people <00:15:04.545>don't <00:15:04.845>want <00:15:04.945>to <00:15:05.025>use <00:15:05.245>AI, <00:15:05.505>but <00:15:06.125>I <00:15:06.285>can <00:15:06.465>guarantee <00:15:06.865>you <00:15:07.065>AI <00:15:07.385>is <00:15:07.745>better <00:15:08.065>than <00:15:08.565>half <00:15:09.365>the <00:15:09.945>developers <00:15:10.365>that <00:15:10.685>are <00:15:10.825>out <00:15:11.085>there, <00:15:11.725>right? 40 00:15:12.105 --> 00:15:13.025 Oh <00:15:12.145>gosh, <00:15:12.385>yeah, <00:15:12.685>yeah, <00:15:12.905>yeah. 41 00:15:13.025 --> 00:16:00.585 But <00:15:13.305>also, <00:15:13.725>I <00:15:14.005>remember <00:15:14.345>building <00:15:14.725>stuff, <00:15:15.505>like <00:15:15.645>when <00:15:15.805>I <00:15:15.925>did <00:15:16.125>my <00:15:16.425>Postgres <00:15:17.225>PHP <00:15:17.805>CMS, <00:15:18.625>I <00:15:19.485>was <00:15:19.785>thinking <00:15:20.025>about <00:15:20.305>that <00:15:20.645>before <00:15:21.785>this <00:15:22.105>call, <00:15:22.745>and <00:15:23.045>I <00:15:23.085>was <00:15:23.165>like, <00:15:23.365>man, <00:15:23.585>I'd <00:15:23.765>like <00:15:23.905>to <00:15:24.045>go <00:15:24.185>back <00:15:24.425>and <00:15:24.585>look <00:15:24.705>at <00:15:24.785>that <00:15:24.925>code <00:15:25.265>and <00:15:25.425>just <00:15:25.605>see, <00:15:26.945>like, <00:15:27.245>run <00:15:27.445>a <00:15:27.605>test <00:15:27.905>on <00:15:28.085>that <00:15:28.345>and <00:15:28.565>see <00:15:28.785>how <00:15:29.025>bad <00:15:29.465>was <00:15:29.725>my <00:15:29.945>code <00:15:30.545>20 <00:15:31.145>years <00:15:31.485>ago. <00:15:31.765>I <00:15:32.045>mean, <00:15:32.245>it <00:15:32.265>was <00:15:32.365>probably, <00:15:33.285>was <00:15:34.045>not, <00:15:34.885>it <00:15:36.245>probably <00:15:36.585>wasn't <00:15:37.025>secure. <00:15:37.685>It <00:15:37.885>probably <00:15:38.385>didn't <00:15:39.025>have, <00:15:39.765>it's <00:15:40.505>not <00:15:41.045>checking <00:15:41.465>things. <00:15:42.065>With <00:15:42.605>AI, <00:15:43.565>though, <00:15:43.785>now, <00:15:44.525>we're, <00:15:45.065>you <00:15:45.265>know, <00:15:45.385>you <00:15:45.545>tell <00:15:46.125>it <00:15:46.265>to <00:15:46.425>do <00:15:46.565>a <00:15:46.705>security <00:15:47.145>audit, <00:15:47.585>and <00:15:48.545>you <00:15:48.665>do <00:15:48.785>security <00:15:49.205>audits <00:15:49.565>with <00:15:49.805>different <00:15:50.225>LLMs, <00:15:50.985>I <00:15:51.285>think <00:15:51.605>we're <00:15:52.025>moving <00:15:52.765>towards <00:15:53.285>a <00:15:53.525>more <00:15:53.785>secure <00:15:54.385>web <00:15:55.585>with <00:15:56.405>AI, <00:15:56.745>because <00:15:57.785>of <00:15:58.025>the <00:15:58.125>fact <00:15:58.405>that <00:15:58.765>developers <00:15:59.465>aren't <00:16:00.245>great. 42 00:16:00.585 --> 00:16:46.079 I'm <00:16:01.265>one <00:16:01.465>of <00:16:01.565>them. <00:16:01.905>I'm <00:16:02.045>not <00:16:02.205>a <00:16:02.425>great <00:16:02.825>developer, <00:16:03.485>but <00:16:03.885>this <00:16:04.145>is, <00:16:04.405>this <00:16:04.765>is <00:16:04.985>where <00:16:06.099>It <00:16:06.599>used <00:16:07.679>to <00:16:07.799>be <00:16:07.899>a <00:16:08.059>problem <00:16:08.499>that <00:16:08.839>I <00:16:09.079>was <00:16:09.419>a <00:16:09.799>jack <00:16:10.319>of <00:16:10.479>all <00:16:10.659>trades, <00:16:11.379>right? <00:16:11.699>You <00:16:11.759>know, <00:16:11.939>a <00:16:12.059>master <00:16:12.439>of <00:16:12.599>none. <00:16:13.799>But <00:16:14.319>that <00:16:14.979>would <00:16:15.259>affect <00:16:15.739>me <00:16:15.919>where <00:16:16.079>I

<00:16:16.219>couldn't <00:16:16.519>get <00:16:16.799>developer <00:16:17.579>jobs <00:16:18.059>because <00:16:18.339>I <00:16:18.559>don't <00:16:18.739>know <00:16:19.639>JavaScript, <00:16:21.019>you <00:16:21.419>know, <00:16:21.559>forwards <00:16:21.919>and <00:16:22.059>backwards <00:16:22.439>and <00:16:22.679>all <00:16:22.799>that. <00:16:23.079>But <00:16:23.699>at <00:16:24.379>this <00:16:24.739>point <00:16:25.159>now, <00:16:25.519>it's <00:16:25.999>better <00:16:26.259>for <00:16:26.459>me <00:16:26.639>to <00:16:26.799>have <00:16:27.039>a <00:16:27.239>general <00:16:27.759>idea <00:16:28.399>of <00:16:28.639>how <00:16:28.839>these <00:16:29.119>things <00:16:29.359>work <00:16:29.799>and <00:16:30.079>let <00:16:30.299>AI <00:16:30.659>make <00:16:31.539>the <00:16:31.799>decisions. <00:16:33.279>And <00:16:33.799>that's <00:16:34.139>a <00:16:34.239>big <00:16:34.479>shift <00:16:35.079>for <00:16:35.319>me. <00:16:35.679>But <00:16:35.759>I <00:16:35.879>just <00:16:36.079>I <00:16:36.339>think <00:16:36.719>AI <00:16:37.619>is <00:16:38.039>going <00:16:38.239>to <00:16:38.399>be <00:16:38.559>better <00:16:38.839>than <00:16:39.259>at <00:16:40.919>least <00:16:41.119>50%, <00:16:41.739>you <00:16:42.179>know, <00:16:42.439>of <00:16:42.559>the <00:16:42.959>developers <00:16:43.359>that <00:16:43.619>are <00:16:43.739>out <00:16:43.959>there. <00:16:44.319>So <00:16:44.399>I'm <00:16:44.699>not <00:16:44.939>as <00:16:45.219>worried <00:16:45.579>about <00:16:45.879>it. 43 00:16:46.079 --> 00:17:06.339 But a year ago, I would be like, no, you know, like, there's no way I'm going to let AI, you know, build this because it's not it's going to have holes. I think I think that's changing. And I think by the end of this year, it's, you know, I'm going to be 100% confident in what what AI is building. So it just gets better all the time. 44 00:17:06.585 --> 00:17:40.505 It's <00:17:06.965>such <00:17:07.285>an <00:17:07.465>interesting <00:17:07.885>kind <00:17:08.265>of <00:17:08.405>Rubicon <00:17:08.925>moment. <00:17:09.365>And <00:17:09.465>I <00:17:09.545>don't <00:17:09.685>know <00:17:09.765>exactly <00:17:10.125>when <00:17:10.345>that <00:17:10.525>Rubicon <00:17:10.965>moment <00:17:11.305>was, <00:17:11.685>but <00:17:11.745>it <00:17:11.905>feels <00:17:12.165>like <00:17:12.325>at <00:17:12.465>some <00:17:12.745>point <00:17:13.065>early <00:17:13.465>in <00:17:13.705>this <00:17:13.985>year, <00:17:14.485>there <00:17:15.565>was <00:17:15.785>a <00:17:15.905>moment <00:17:16.245>where <00:17:16.745>whichever <00:17:17.705>model <00:17:18.025>it <00:17:18.185>was <00:17:18.425>and <00:17:18.545>whichever <00:17:18.845>platform <00:17:19.505>you're <00:17:19.825>using <00:17:20.045>to <00:17:20.265>get <00:17:20.485>your <00:17:20.705>AI, <00:17:21.405>where <00:17:21.885>that <00:17:22.125>calculation <00:17:22.705>became <00:17:23.125>true <00:17:23.425>for <00:17:23.665>almost <00:17:23.925>everybody. <00:17:24.345>You <00:17:24.525>know, <00:17:24.725>there <00:17:24.985>isn't <00:17:25.265>a <00:17:25.445>great <00:17:25.825>need <00:17:26.285>to <00:17:26.745>do <00:17:27.045>the <00:17:27.225>checking. <00:17:27.685>However, <00:17:28.125>on <00:17:28.245>the <00:17:28.325>flip <00:17:28.565>side, <00:17:29.145>you <00:17:29.505>know, <00:17:29.745>I <00:17:29.885>can <00:17:30.025>hear <00:17:30.145>the <00:17:30.265>people <00:17:30.485>shouting <00:17:30.785>at <00:17:30.985>me <00:17:31.205>down <00:17:31.565>there, <00:17:31.845>podcast <00:17:32.145>player. <00:17:32.825>But <00:17:33.305>without <00:17:33.665>the <00:17:33.945>expertise <00:17:34.365>of <00:17:34.605>a <00:17:34.685>human, <00:17:35.345>you <00:17:35.745>know, <00:17:36.025>how <00:17:36.305>are <00:17:36.585>we <00:17:36.685>going <00:17:36.845>to <00:17:37.025>know <00:17:37.285>that <00:17:37.545>the <00:17:38.005>problems <00:17:38.645>that <00:17:38.865>ought <00:17:39.085>to <00:17:39.285>be <00:17:39.425>fixed <00:17:39.825>are <00:17:40.245>fixed? 45 00:17:40.505 --> 00:18:08.825 In other words, how would you concoct to the prompt that's going to do the checking? And I can totally get all of that. You know, it would be a great shame if in 10 years time there was nobody left around anymore who had the basic understanding of what it requires to make, let's go for security, let's just talk about that one, to make platforms secure, to make sure that, you know, the vulnerabilities across WordPress, across Astro, across PHP, and Node.js, and all of these different things are being taken care of. 46 00:18:08.825 --> 00:18:41.760 Maybe <00:18:09.425>the <00:18:09.605>AI <00:18:09.885>will <00:18:10.125>step <00:18:10.345>up <00:18:10.545>to <00:18:10.665>the <00:18:10.785>plate <00:18:11.025>there <00:18:11.205>and <00:18:11.345>it <00:18:11.465>will <00:18:11.705>be <00:18:11.865>able <00:18:12.105>to <00:18:12.285>do <00:18:12.445>it. <00:18:12.800>But <00:18:13.060>I <00:18:13.300>can <00:18:13.460>equally <00:18:13.780>see <00:18:14.020>why <00:18:14.240>people <00:18:14.580>who <00:18:14.900>don't <00:18:17.220>want <00:18:17.480>WordPress <00:18:17.820>to <00:18:18.060>go <00:18:18.200>away. <00:18:18.440>They <00:18:18.540>don't <00:18:18.760>want <00:18:18.960>to <00:18:19.180>allow <00:18:19.980>AI <00:18:20.340>to <00:18:20.600>step <00:18:20.880>into <00:18:21.120>the <00:18:21.500>breach <00:18:21.840>here. <00:18:22.380>I <00:18:22.760>can <00:18:22.880>equally <00:18:23.200>see <00:18:23.460>how <00:18:23.680>their <00:18:24.040>arguments <00:18:25.120>work <00:18:25.480>as <00:18:25.640>well. <00:18:25.900>I'm <00:18:26.320>terribly <00:18:27.040>confused <00:18:27.680>by <00:18:27.940>it <00:18:28.100>all. <00:18:28.700>Because <00:18:29.180>on <00:18:29.320>the <00:18:29.400>one <00:18:29.620>hand, <00:18:30.060>it <00:18:30.200>is <00:18:30.400>so <00:18:31.100>unbelievably <00:18:32.840>beguiling, <00:18:33.840>and <00:18:34.600>I'm

<00:18:35.000>sure, <00:18:35.420>Erin, <00:18:35.700>like <00:18:35.900>me, <00:18:36.200>you've <00:18:36.400>probably <00:18:36.700>doom <00:18:37.060>scrolled <00:18:37.640>on <00:18:37.760>your <00:18:37.920>phone <00:18:38.300>in <00:18:38.600>the <00:18:38.680>middle <00:18:38.840>of <00:18:38.960>the <00:18:39.060>night <00:18:39.300>knowing <00:18:39.920>it <00:18:40.400>was <00:18:40.540>a <00:18:40.700>dumb <00:18:41.100>thing <00:18:41.420>to <00:18:41.600>do. 47 00:18:41.760 --> 00:18:50.000 It's <00:18:42.000>like <00:18:42.120>totally <00:18:42.500>wasting <00:18:42.820>your <00:18:43.060>time. <00:18:43.640>Nobody's <00:18:44.120>getting <00:18:44.280>any <00:18:44.520>benefit <00:18:44.840>out <00:18:45.140>of <00:18:45.260>it. <00:18:45.520>You <00:18:45.600>should <00:18:45.820>be <00:18:45.960>asleep, <00:18:46.500>and <00:18:46.560>yet <00:18:46.720>you <00:18:46.860>doom <00:18:47.100>scroll. <00:18:47.700>Because, <00:18:48.380>well, <00:18:49.100>it's <00:18:49.440>there, <00:18:49.880>right? 48 00:18:50.160 --> 00:19:22.595 It's <00:18:50.340>there, <00:18:50.700>yeah. <00:18:50.820>And <00:18:50.840>I think <00:18:50.940>the <00:18:51.220>same <00:18:51.560>is <00:18:51.800>true <00:18:52.020>of <00:18:52.220>this. <00:18:52.900>Like, <00:18:53.180>we <00:18:53.480>know <00:18:53.880>that <00:18:54.160>on <00:18:54.340>some <00:18:54.800>systemic <00:18:55.720>level, <00:18:56.180>if <00:18:56.580>we <00:18:56.720>give <00:18:57.080>over <00:18:57.480>everything <00:18:58.060>to <00:18:58.340>the <00:18:58.480>AI <00:18:58.880>and <00:18:59.560>the <00:18:59.680>AI <00:18:59.980>companies, <00:19:00.420>at <00:19:00.640>some <00:19:00.980>point, <00:19:01.340>we're <00:19:01.800>going <00:19:01.880>to <00:19:01.960>have <00:19:02.100>hollowed <00:19:02.560>out <00:19:02.680>the <00:19:02.840>ecosystems, <00:19:03.840>hollowed <00:19:04.180>out <00:19:04.280>the <00:19:04.400>community, <00:19:05.060>such <00:19:05.460>that <00:19:05.700>there's <00:19:05.940>nothing <00:19:06.380>left <00:19:06.780>except <00:19:07.260>the <00:19:08.000>AI. <00:19:08.975>But <00:19:09.415>it's <00:19:09.795>so <00:19:10.135>much <00:19:10.535>fun! <00:19:11.515>It <00:19:12.315>absolutely <00:19:13.535>is. <00:19:14.635>So <00:19:15.435>I <00:19:15.895>built <00:19:16.215>a <00:19:16.715>control <00:19:17.495>panel <00:19:17.915>to <00:19:18.335>manage <00:19:18.855>my <00:19:19.275>250 <00:19:20.175>sites <00:19:21.055>or <00:19:21.175>so <00:19:21.335>that <00:19:21.555>we <00:19:22.135>manage. 49 00:19:23.055 --> 00:19:53.035 But <00:19:23.895>I'm <00:19:25.635>also <00:19:26.095>going <00:19:26.575>to <00:19:26.995>get <00:19:27.455>a <00:19:27.715>friend <00:19:27.935>of <00:19:28.055>mine, <00:19:28.255>he <00:19:28.475>does <00:19:28.795>penetration <00:19:29.595>testing. <00:19:30.355>I'm <00:19:30.835>going <00:19:30.935>to <00:19:30.995>get <00:19:31.135>him <00:19:31.335>to <00:19:31.495>go <00:19:31.675>and <00:19:31.855>test

<00:19:32.315>this. <00:19:32.855>Because <00:19:33.315>as <00:19:34.335>much <00:19:35.595>as <00:19:35.735>I <00:19:35.855>say, <00:19:36.195>AI <00:19:36.755>has <00:19:36.975>got <00:19:37.175>it, <00:19:37.535>I'm <00:19:37.895>still <00:19:38.315>a <00:19:38.975>little <00:19:39.135>nervous. <00:19:39.535>I <00:19:39.795>still <00:19:40.035>want <00:19:40.315>a <00:19:40.495>human <00:19:40.835>that <00:19:41.175>understands <00:19:42.175>security <00:19:42.875>to <00:19:43.215>go <00:19:43.415>in <00:19:43.575>and <00:19:43.915>test <00:19:44.615>those <00:19:44.895>things. <00:19:45.375>But <00:19:45.815>you're <00:19:46.315>right. <00:19:46.635>I <00:19:46.715>think <00:19:47.215>we're <00:19:47.415>going <00:19:47.595>to <00:19:47.795>have... <00:19:48.535>I <00:19:49.015>think <00:19:49.195>one <00:19:49.355>of <00:19:49.435>the <00:19:49.555>concerns <00:19:49.995>that <00:19:50.215>I <00:19:50.315>have <00:19:50.555>is <00:19:50.735>that <00:19:50.975>I <00:19:51.315>think <00:19:51.515>creativity... 50 00:19:53.035 --> 00:20:20.295 Maybe <00:19:53.715>I'm <00:19:53.955>wrong, <00:19:55.015>but <00:19:55.115>I <00:19:55.235>feel <00:19:55.455>like <00:19:55.695>creativity <00:19:56.875>is <00:19:57.315>at <00:19:57.475>risk. <00:19:57.855>Meaning, <00:20:00.615>AI... <00:20:02.315>AI <00:20:02.935>isn't <00:20:03.355>creative. <00:20:04.235>It <00:20:04.395>just <00:20:04.675>copies. <00:20:06.115>It <00:20:06.835>sees <00:20:07.375>examples, <00:20:07.875>and <00:20:08.215>it's <00:20:08.355>like, <00:20:08.575>okay, <00:20:08.755>I <00:20:08.835>can <00:20:09.015>replicate <00:20:09.515>that. <00:20:10.335>But <00:20:11.055>true <00:20:11.595>innovation, <00:20:12.715>are <00:20:13.855>we <00:20:14.015>going <00:20:14.155>to <00:20:14.235>get <00:20:14.495>true <00:20:15.235>innovation <00:20:15.735>in <00:20:16.095>10 <00:20:16.235>years <00:20:16.595>if <00:20:16.955>everyone's <00:20:17.535>using <00:20:17.795>AI? <00:20:18.375>I <00:20:18.835>don't <00:20:19.955>know. 51 00:20:21.595 --> 00:20:47.335 One <00:20:22.215>of <00:20:22.315>the <00:20:22.415>reasons <00:20:22.655>why <00:20:22.915>I <00:20:23.115>really <00:20:23.455>like <00:20:23.955>AI <00:20:24.355>is <00:20:24.575>because <00:20:24.835>I'm <00:20:25.395>able <00:20:25.655>to <00:20:25.935>be <00:20:26.175>creative <00:20:26.735>because <00:20:27.135>of <00:20:27.355>the <00:20:27.435>fact <00:20:27.695>that <00:20:27.935>I <00:20:28.195>don't <00:20:28.455>have <00:20:28.835>limitations. <00:20:31.915>Since <00:20:32.535>March, <00:20:33.975>I <00:20:34.615>have <00:20:34.915>started <00:20:35.435>over <00:20:35.895>90 <00:20:36.555>GitHub <00:20:37.695>repos. <00:20:38.995>That <00:20:39.615>means <00:20:39.915>not <00:20:40.775>just <00:20:41.095>an <00:20:41.295>idea. <00:20:41.715>It's <00:20:41.975>an <00:20:42.095>idea <00:20:42.535>that <00:20:43.335>is <00:20:43.875>worth <00:20:44.355>creating <00:20:45.135>a <00:20:45.355>repo <00:20:45.695>for <00:20:46.035>to <00:20:46.255>see <00:20:46.415>if <00:20:46.555>I <00:20:46.655>can <00:20:46.815>build <00:20:47.135>it. 52 00:20:47.335 --> 00:21:16.180 I've <00:20:48.035>done <00:20:48.215>90 <00:20:48.715>projects. <00:20:49.355>That's <00:20:49.775>like <00:20:49.895>two <00:20:50.095>or <00:20:50.255>three, <00:20:50.915>every <00:20:51.375>two <00:20:51.555>or <00:20:51.675>three <00:20:51.855>days, <00:20:52.335>I <00:20:52.695>have <00:20:52.955>an <00:20:53.575>idea. <00:20:54.875>And <00:20:55.515>it's <00:20:56.115>like, <00:20:56.475>I'm, <00:20:57.335>I, <00:20:57.615>it's <00:20:58.075>like... <00:20:58.560>There's <00:20:59.120>no <00:20:59.320>limitation <00:21:00.260>for <00:21:00.760>me <00:21:00.960>anymore. <00:21:01.500>It <00:21:01.640>used <00:21:01.840>to <00:21:01.960>be, <00:21:02.280>I <00:21:02.300>have <00:21:02.500>an <00:21:02.620>idea, <00:21:03.140>now <00:21:03.240>I <00:21:03.360>need <00:21:03.480>to <00:21:03.560>go <00:21:03.680>get <00:21:03.800>my <00:21:03.960>developer <00:21:04.400>to <00:21:04.880>spend <00:21:05.360>40 <00:21:05.740>hours <00:21:06.120>to <00:21:06.340>do <00:21:06.480>a <00:21:06.600>prototype. <00:21:07.300>And <00:21:07.360>it's <00:21:07.540>like, <00:21:08.020>well, <00:21:08.340>not <00:21:08.780>anymore. <00:21:09.720>Now <00:21:10.120>I <00:21:10.280>have <00:21:10.460>my <00:21:10.620>prototype <00:21:11.060>done <00:21:11.560>by <00:21:12.060>the <00:21:12.200>end <00:21:12.360>of <00:21:12.440>the <00:21:12.560>day. <00:21:13.880>And <00:21:14.280>so <00:21:14.580>that's <00:21:15.100>what's <00:21:15.340>really <00:21:15.520>fun <00:21:15.780>for <00:21:15.980>me. 53 00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:44.040 Yeah, <00:21:17.000>I'm <00:21:17.120>going <00:21:17.220>to, <00:21:17.380>I'm <00:21:17.580>going <00:21:17.660>to <00:21:17.780>sort <00:21:18.220>of <00:21:18.320>interrupt <00:21:18.660>a <00:21:18.820>little <00:21:18.920>bit <00:21:19.040>there, <00:21:19.260>because <00:21:19.380>this <00:21:19.720>also <00:21:20.000>is <00:21:20.180>one <00:21:20.340>of <00:21:20.440>the <00:21:20.540>things <00:21:20.720>that <00:21:20.880>I <00:21:20.980>think <00:21:21.140>is <00:21:21.300>quite <00:21:21.800>confusing, <00:21:22.500>because <00:21:22.940>we <00:21:23.120>definitely <00:21:23.700>haven't <00:21:24.380>exited <00:21:25.040>the <00:21:25.720>moment <00:21:26.020>where <00:21:26.320>the <00:21:26.500>bit <00:21:26.680>that <00:21:26.820>I'm <00:21:26.980>about <00:21:27.200>to <00:21:27.380>say <00:21:27.560>matters. <00:21:28.180>And <00:21:28.640>it <00:21:28.840>is, <00:21:29.460>it's <00:21:29.860>one <00:21:30.160>of <00:21:30.380>the <00:21:31.180>capacity <00:21:31.780>to <00:21:32.200>consume, <00:21:33.320>like <00:21:33.760>humanity <00:21:34.320>as <00:21:34.620>a <00:21:34.700>whole. <00:21:35.100>So <00:21:35.180>not <00:21:35.460>just <00:21:35.720>me <00:21:36.000>and <00:21:36.160>you <00:21:36.380>or <00:21:36.660>me, <00:21:37.040>you

<00:21:37.140>and <00:21:37.280>the <00:21:37.360>WordPress <00:21:37.640>community, <00:21:38.460>everybody, <00:21:39.520>the <00:21:39.720>whole <00:21:39.940>of <00:21:40.080>humanity. <00:21:40.760>How <00:21:41.240>much <00:21:41.620>capacity <00:21:42.180>do <00:21:42.600>we <00:21:42.780>have <00:21:43.080>for <00:21:43.440>this <00:21:43.740>stuff? 54 00:21:44.040 --> 00:22:15.175 So <00:21:44.660>if <00:21:44.920>you're <00:21:45.060>doing <00:21:45.280>hobby <00:21:45.660>projects <00:21:46.320>and <00:21:46.640>all <00:21:46.960>of <00:21:47.040>that, <00:21:47.340>that's <00:21:47.560>great. <00:21:48.255>But <00:21:48.675>I'm <00:21:48.895>increasingly <00:21:49.375>seeing, <00:21:49.875>you <00:21:49.935>know, <00:21:50.095>people <00:21:50.335>launching <00:21:50.795>Mac <00:21:51.095>apps, <00:21:51.535>which <00:21:51.675>do <00:21:51.835>this <00:21:52.015>one <00:21:52.215>thing. <00:21:52.635>And <00:21:52.695>then <00:21:52.855>you <00:21:53.015>realize, <00:21:53.535>like, <00:21:53.735>four <00:21:53.875>days <00:21:54.155>later, <00:21:54.475>they've <00:21:54.815>released <00:21:55.075>another <00:21:55.475>Mac <00:21:55.795>app. <00:21:56.215>And <00:21:56.275>then <00:21:56.395>four <00:21:56.615>days <00:21:56.875>after <00:21:57.135>that, <00:21:57.455>another <00:21:57.795>one <00:21:58.155>and <00:21:58.555>another <00:21:58.895>one. <00:21:59.695>I'm <00:22:00.095>thinking <00:22:00.275>of <00:22:00.415>this <00:22:00.535>particular <00:22:00.915>individual. <00:22:01.575>I <00:22:01.595>mean, <00:22:01.755>it's <00:22:02.155>unbelievable. <00:22:02.775>You <00:22:03.175>know, <00:22:03.315>it <00:22:03.395>would <00:22:03.495>have <00:22:03.595>taken <00:22:03.855>teams <00:22:04.335>years <00:22:04.915>to <00:22:05.715>do <00:22:05.855>what <00:22:06.055>this <00:22:06.275>guy <00:22:06.515>is <00:22:06.675>putting <00:22:06.895>out. <00:22:07.215>I've <00:22:07.295>downloaded <00:22:07.735>a <00:22:07.935>few <00:22:08.035>of <00:22:08.175>them. <00:22:08.495>They're <00:22:08.735>there. <00:22:09.175>They <00:22:09.255>work. <00:22:09.795>But <00:22:10.195>he's <00:22:10.355>trying <00:22:10.515>to <00:22:10.635>monetize <00:22:11.195>them. <00:22:11.435>And <00:22:11.475>you <00:22:11.575>think, <00:22:12.395>yeah, <00:22:12.515>but <00:22:12.635>where, <00:22:13.795>where, <00:22:14.175>how <00:22:14.415>does <00:22:14.675>that <00:22:14.875>work? 55 00:22:15.315 --> 00:22:41.975 How <00:22:15.435>do <00:22:15.575>we <00:22:15.755>square <00:22:16.135>the <00:22:16.335>circle <00:22:16.715>of, <00:22:17.395>okay, <00:22:17.655>everybody's <00:22:18.135>really <00:22:18.235>leasing <00:22:18.395>everything <00:22:18.755>all <00:22:18.955>the <00:22:19.075>time? <00:22:19.755>What <00:22:19.895>capacity <00:22:20.995>do <00:22:21.355>we <00:22:21.495>all <00:22:21.675>have <00:22:21.935>to <00:22:22.255>keep <00:22:22.735>buying <00:22:23.395>these <00:22:23.975>things? <00:22:24.435>Because <00:22:24.515>ultimately, <00:22:24.915>that's <00:22:25.295>got <00:22:25.415>to <00:22:25.535>be <00:22:25.615>the <00:22:25.755>calculus, <00:22:26.355>right? <00:22:26.495>If <00:22:26.595>you <00:22:26.655>can't <00:22:26.835>make <00:22:26.995>it <00:22:27.095>profitable, <00:22:27.855>at <00:22:28.075>some <00:22:28.435>point, <00:22:28.935>the <00:22:29.015>hobby <00:22:29.235>project, <00:22:29.735>you're <00:22:30.015>just <00:22:30.115>going <00:22:30.215>to <00:22:30.275>have <00:22:30.355>to <00:22:30.455>admit, <00:22:30.855>that's <00:22:31.075>what <00:22:31.215>it <00:22:31.315>is. <00:22:31.555>It's <00:22:31.635>a <00:22:31.715>hobby <00:22:31.915>project. <00:22:32.815>That's <00:22:33.215>the <00:22:33.315>bit <00:22:33.475>that <00:22:33.635>I <00:22:33.755>think <00:22:33.895>we're <00:22:34.075>in <00:22:34.175>at <00:22:34.275>the <00:22:34.375>moment. <00:22:34.935>We're <00:22:35.335>carried <00:22:35.635>away. <00:22:35.935>We're <00:22:36.275>loving <00:22:36.535>it. <00:22:36.875>We're <00:22:36.955>enjoying <00:22:37.295>it <00:22:37.495>all. <00:22:38.055>But <00:22:38.455>there's <00:22:38.655>a <00:22:38.735>bit <00:22:38.875>of <00:22:38.995>me <00:22:39.155>which <00:22:39.355>is <00:22:39.555>niggling, <00:22:40.235>thinking, <00:22:40.735>where <00:22:41.295>does <00:22:41.515>this <00:22:41.715>end? 56 00:22:42.075 --> 00:23:08.610 At <00:22:42.175>what <00:22:42.355>point <00:22:42.635>do <00:22:42.775>we <00:22:42.915>all <00:22:43.055>suddenly <00:22:43.355>realize, <00:22:43.975>oh, <00:22:44.855>okay, <00:22:45.115>nobody's <00:22:45.495>buying <00:22:45.795>this <00:22:46.055>stuff, <00:22:46.395>because <00:22:46.715>we're <00:22:46.995>all <00:22:47.255>thinking, <00:22:48.235>if <00:22:48.335>I <00:22:48.435>wait <00:22:48.655>a <00:22:48.795>week, <00:22:49.295>somebody <00:22:49.935>will <00:22:50.055>have <00:22:50.195>something <00:22:50.475>better. <00:22:50.775>So <00:22:51.075>I <00:22:51.155>won't <00:22:51.355>buy <00:22:51.595>it. <00:22:52.130>The <00:22:52.670>issue <00:22:53.390>is, <00:22:54.630>I <00:22:54.830>watch <00:22:55.910>a <00:22:56.030>lot <00:22:56.110>of <00:22:56.210>stuff <00:22:56.390>on <00:22:56.750>YouTube. <00:22:58.070>I <00:22:58.550>never <00:22:58.770>watch <00:22:59.110>TV <00:22:59.570>anymore. <00:23:00.670>It's <00:23:00.910>been <00:23:01.030>that <00:23:01.150>way <00:23:01.290>probably <00:23:01.550>for <00:23:01.770>10 <00:23:02.070>years. <00:23:02.730>But <00:23:03.210>I <00:23:03.270>was <00:23:03.350>watching <00:23:03.590>a <00:23:03.770>clip, <00:23:04.030>and <00:23:04.250>I <00:23:04.370>know <00:23:04.510>these <00:23:04.750>numbers <00:23:05.070>are <00:23:05.290>wrong, <00:23:05.950>but <00:23:06.550>I'm <00:23:06.770>going <00:23:07.090>to <00:23:07.830>say <00:23:07.990>them <00:23:08.210>anyway. 57 00:23:09.490 --> 00:23:39.870 I think the numbers were something like, in 2025, the Apple App Store had something like, I think it was 600,000

apps added to the repo in 2025. In the first half of 2026, they've already had 560,000 apps submitted, which means by the end of the year, we're going to have well over a million new apps in the App Store. 58 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:50.660 But <00:23:40.840>the <00:23:41.120>increase <00:23:41.820>of <00:23:42.660>sales <00:23:43.460>has <00:23:43.840>only <00:23:44.140>gone <00:23:44.360>up <00:23:44.660>2%. <00:23:45.780>Yeah, <00:23:46.340>there <00:23:46.460>you <00:23:46.540>go. <00:23:46.820>So <00:23:47.100>people <00:23:48.520>are <00:23:48.680>building <00:23:48.980>stuff, <00:23:49.340>no <00:23:49.700>one's <00:23:50.020>buying <00:23:50.360>it. 59 00:23:50.840 --> 00:24:27.740 And one of the things that, like, so the control panel that I built, I was talking to another agency owner, and she showed me, oh, well, this agency owner also built a control panel, and so did this one. Go check those two out. And I looked at them, and I'm like, oh, they're selling them. Like, mine's open source. Why? Because anybody can build this stuff now. Like, it's not, like, if you're building, this is my humble opinion, and I'm sure people will disagree with me on this, but if you're building stuff that can be just vibe-coded, I don't see how you're going to make any money off of it. 60 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:56.375 No. You know, so to me, open source stuff, get it out there, let other people use the tools so we can work together. I mean- Open source just in general, there's only been a small percentage of people in the world that have ever been able to contribute at the code level to projects. Well, that's changing. Now, lots of people can contribute because they have AI. 61 00:24:56.375 --> 00:25:30.115 Now, the code might be garbage, it might not be great, but at least they can do a pull request. The person that runs the application can take it or leave it. But I feel like, I think that's awesome. With WordPress, it's always very few people contribute to core as far as percentage-wise. But now, a lot of people could if they wanted to, which I think is awesome. That is open sources, finally. 62 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:57.390 It's <00:25:31.710>going to <00:25:31.930>be <00:25:32.170>used <00:25:33.730>by <00:25:33.970>more <00:25:34.190>people, <00:25:34.590>which <00:25:35.730>I <00:25:36.110>think <00:25:36.290>is <00:25:36.370>cool. <00:25:37.230>Yeah, <00:25:37.610>it's <00:25:37.830>honestly, <00:25:38.650>genuinely, <00:25:39.610>it's <00:25:39.830>such <00:25:40.270>an <00:25:40.730>interesting <00:25:41.250>time. <00:25:42.010>You <00:25:42.090>know, <00:25:42.330>my <00:25:43.010>background <00:25:43.430>at <00:25:43.830>university <00:25:44.290>was <00:25:44.530>history. <00:25:45.130>So, <00:25:45.490>you <00:25:45.550>know, <00:25:45.830>the <00:25:46.750>job <00:25:47.030>of <00:25:47.170>a <00:25:47.230>historian <00:25:47.650>is <00:25:47.890>to <00:25:48.510>not <00:25:48.950>really <00:25:49.170>look <00:25:49.370>at <00:25:49.490>the <00:25:49.610>current <00:25:49.950>climate, <00:25:50.590>but <00:25:50.670>is <00:25:50.810>to <00:25:50.930>look <00:25:51.090>back <00:25:51.370>and <00:25:51.530>try <00:25:52.070>to <00:25:52.210>make <00:25:52.570>reasonable <00:25:54.170>guesses <00:25:54.470>as <00:25:54.690>to <00:25:54.790>why <00:25:55.070>this <00:25:55.330>thing <00:25:55.510>happened <00:25:55.890>and <00:25:56.070>what <00:25:56.270>was <00:25:56.490>it <00:25:56.590>that <00:25:56.710>made <00:25:56.890>this <00:25:57.090>thing <00:25:57.210>happen. 63 00:25:57.390 --> 00:26:25.230 I think this is such an interesting point because I don't think we've ever had an intellectual abundance like we now do. I don't think there's any point in time where basically we had godlike tools like this. You know, you had, if you went to a library, there was all the information that the world could summon up in that great big library, but you couldn't in some way articulate it or corral it or do anything with it. 64 00:26:25.230 --> 00:26:58.065 So, you know, you had to use your human brain to do it. Now, all it takes is a sentence. And prompt for that to become available, I'm really, really, some of me is nervous, some of me thinks it's great font, some of me thinks it's really interesting, but I do wonder what the systemic output of that is going to be. And so, you know, as a historian, I'd be looking back and thinking, okay, gosh, you know, we're now in the year 2030. Well, it was pretty obvious in the year 2026, this was all going in the wrong direction. 65 00:26:58.065 --> 00:27:25.225 I'm <00:26:59.005>not <00:26:59.325>sure <00:26:59.645>we're <00:27:00.005>not <00:27:00.345>going <00:27:00.685>in <00:27:00.865>the <00:27:00.965>wrong <00:27:01.145>direction. <00:27:02.785>I <00:27:03.305>hope <00:27:03.565>we're <00:27:03.785>not, <00:27:04.105>and <00:27:04.505>I <00:27:04.605>hope <00:27:04.765>that <00:27:04.905>everything's <00:27:05.385>fun, <00:27:05.785>but <00:27:06.665>there's <00:27:06.965>a <00:27:07.065>bit <00:27:07.265>of <00:27:07.425>me <00:27:07.585>which <00:27:07.845>worries <00:27:08.245>that <00:27:08.585>if <00:27:08.945>so <00:27:10.145>many <00:27:10.505>pillars <00:27:11.005>of <00:27:11.525>what <00:27:11.785>we <00:27:12.025>do <00:27:12.485>in <00:27:13.605>order <00:27:13.765>to <00:27:13.945>provide <00:27:14.305>an <00:27:14.545>income <00:27:14.785>for <00:27:15.025>ourselves <00:27:15.565>are <00:27:16.365>undermined <00:27:17.225>by <00:27:17.525>typing <00:27:18.325>into <00:27:18.625>a <00:27:18.745>box <00:27:19.025>and <00:27:19.205>letting <00:27:19.465>it <00:27:19.665>spit <00:27:19.885>something <00:27:20.225>out, <00:27:20.745>those <00:27:21.485>bits <00:27:21.885>haven't <00:27:22.305>yet <00:27:22.505>been <00:27:22.725>felt, <00:27:23.065>but <00:27:23.425>I <00:27:23.665>think <00:27:23.925>they <00:27:24.125>are <00:27:24.325>going <00:27:24.625>to <00:27:24.845>be <00:27:24.985>felt. 66 00:27:25.225 --> 00:27:44.995 And

<00:27:25.445>really <00:27:25.825>that <00:27:26.005>comes <00:27:26.245>down <00:27:26.465>to <00:27:26.745>capacity <00:27:27.325>for <00:27:27.585>people <00:27:27.865>to <00:27:28.065>gain <00:27:28.405>employment <00:27:29.025>in <00:27:29.845>the <00:27:30.005>tech <00:27:30.225>space <00:27:30.605>in <00:27:30.745>particular, <00:27:31.185>you <00:27:31.725>know, <00:27:31.865>if <00:27:31.945>you're <00:27:32.065>a <00:27:32.185>farmer. <00:27:33.195>I <00:27:33.635>suspect <00:27:33.895>you're <00:27:34.115>going <00:27:34.175>to <00:27:34.235>be <00:27:34.355>fine. <00:27:34.895>And <00:27:34.975>if <00:27:35.075>you're <00:27:35.215>a <00:27:35.415>plasterer, <00:27:36.195>or a <00:27:36.355>bricklayer, <00:27:36.995>or <00:27:37.395>a <00:27:37.535>chef, <00:27:38.195>I <00:27:38.635>reckon <00:27:38.895>you're <00:27:39.155>probably <00:27:39.755>fine <00:27:40.155>for <00:27:40.455>a <00:27:40.575>good <00:27:40.735>while. <00:27:41.395>But <00:27:41.815>in <00:27:41.995>our <00:27:42.235>industry, <00:27:44.195>I'm <00:27:44.575>not so <00:27:44.775>sure. 67 00:27:56.935 --> 00:28:09.915 I know, it's fascinating. I love this. Is it going to be, in a year, we're going to have a $5,000 robot that I can just put in my kitchen, and say, hey, cook dinner? 68 00:28:11.135 --> 00:28:25.695 Yeah. <00:28:12.255>And <00:28:12.775>have <00:28:13.055>an <00:28:13.215>unlimited, <00:28:14.495>like, <00:28:14.635>what <00:28:15.135>do <00:28:15.215>you <00:28:15.295>want? <00:28:15.595>You <00:28:15.675>want <00:28:15.935>sushi? <00:28:16.755>You <00:28:16.795>want... <00:28:17.135>I <00:28:17.275>mean, <00:28:17.555>like, <00:28:18.015>is that... <00:28:19.835>It's <00:28:20.355>so <00:28:20.595>great. <00:28:21.215>It's <00:28:21.415>such <00:28:21.675>a... <00:28:21.935>I <00:28:22.015>mean, <00:28:22.355>how <00:28:22.835>wonderful <00:28:23.515>is <00:28:23.815>that? <00:28:24.095>It's <00:28:24.595>great <00:28:24.915>and <00:28:25.235>scary. 69 00:28:25.695 --> 00:28:54.475 I <00:28:25.855>agree. <00:28:26.175>Yeah, <00:28:26.715>exactly. <00:28:27.295>There's <00:28:27.635>equal <00:28:28.095>measures <00:28:28.475>of <00:28:28.675>both. <00:28:29.115>But <00:28:29.615>I <00:28:29.775>think <00:28:30.035>the <00:28:30.275>bit <00:28:30.595>that <00:28:30.815>we <00:28:30.995>haven't <00:28:31.375>yet <00:28:31.555>had <00:28:31.775>to <00:28:31.915>deal <00:28:32.135>with <00:28:32.395>is <00:28:32.855>this <00:28:33.055>whole <00:28:33.275>idea <00:28:33.655>that, <00:28:33.935>let's <00:28:34.315>go <00:28:34.475>for <00:28:34.595>the <00:28:34.695>Industrial <00:28:35.055>Revolution, <00:28:35.795>for <00:28:35.875>example. <00:28:36.255>The <00:28:36.335>Industrial <00:28:36.675>Revolution <00:28:37.155>was <00:28:37.395>a <00:28:37.515>time <00:28:37.795>in <00:28:38.055>which <00:28:38.375>many <00:28:38.715>jobs <00:28:39.535>kind <00:28:39.755>of <00:28:39.855>got <00:28:39.995>completely <00:28:40.455>hijacked <00:28:40.915>because <00:28:41.215>machines <00:28:41.855>did <00:28:42.135>things. <00:28:42.475>Well, <00:28:43.435>really, <00:28:43.735>all <00:28:43.835>that <00:28:43.975>you <00:28:44.055>did <00:28:44.235>there <00:28:44.515>is <00:28:44.855>that <00:28:45.095>you <00:28:45.255>replaced <00:28:45.795>the <00:28:46.495>brawn <00:28:47.055>of <00:28:47.315>a <00:28:47.815>thousand <00:28:48.135>human <00:28:48.455>beings <00:28:48.935>by <00:28:49.735>the <00:28:49.915>brawn <00:28:50.355>of <00:28:50.515>one <00:28:50.755>giant <00:28:51.215>metal <00:28:52.075>thing <00:28:52.475>made <00:28:52.775>of <00:28:52.915>iron <00:28:53.195>that <00:28:53.395>spun <00:28:53.675>around <00:28:53.975>and <00:28:54.135>what <00:28:54.255>have <00:28:54.395>you. 70 00:28:54.555 --> 00:29:21.015 And <00:28:54.615>now, <00:28:54.955>you <00:28:55.035>know, <00:28:55.175>the <00:28:55.235>job <00:28:55.395>of <00:28:55.535>a <00:28:55.655>thousand <00:28:55.915>human <00:28:56.215>beings <00:28:56.455>could <00:28:56.615>be <00:28:56.735>done <00:28:56.875>by <00:28:57.075>one <00:28:57.355>machine <00:28:57.955>that <00:28:58.095>spun <00:28:58.315>round <00:28:58.535>and <00:28:58.675>round. <00:28:59.395>But <00:28:59.795>there <00:29:00.295>was <00:29:00.415>a <00:29:00.515>beachhead <00:29:00.955>there. <00:29:01.275>Those <00:29:02.195>workers <00:29:02.895>could, <00:29:04.215>over <00:29:04.655>time, <00:29:05.935>run <00:29:06.335>and <00:29:06.615>do <00:29:07.015>work <00:29:09.155>which <00:29:09.395>required <00:29:09.735>the <00:29:09.875>brain. <00:29:10.375>And <00:29:10.435>obviously, <00:29:10.875>in <00:29:11.095>the <00:29:11.175>West, <00:29:11.435>ever <00:29:11.655>since <00:29:11.855>then, <00:29:12.455>that's <00:29:12.955>exactly <00:29:13.355>what <00:29:13.555>we <00:29:13.695>all <00:29:13.895>went <00:29:14.095>and <00:29:14.215>did. <00:29:14.595>You <00:29:14.635>know, <00:29:14.855>we <00:29:14.935>went <00:29:15.095>and <00:29:15.255>found <00:29:15.535>jobs <00:29:15.855>which <00:29:16.075>required <00:29:16.395>us <00:29:16.575>to <00:29:16.815>think <00:29:17.275>for <00:29:17.595>a <00:29:17.775>living. <00:29:18.195>And <00:29:18.675>so <00:29:19.035>no <00:29:19.655>technology <00:29:20.135>could <00:29:20.395>combat <00:29:20.755>that. 71 00:29:21.575 --> 00:30:06.495 So <00:29:22.055>if <00:29:22.415>you <00:29:23.415>categorize <00:29:24.055>us <00:29:24.195>basically <00:29:24.755>as <00:29:25.075>brawn <00:29:25.595>and <00:29:25.835>brains, <00:29:26.635>well, <00:29:26.955>brawn <00:29:27.375>was <00:29:27.595>given <00:29:27.835>up <00:29:28.035>in <00:29:28.215>the <00:29:28.415>Industrial <00:29:28.855>Revolution, <00:29:29.635>largely. <00:29:30.355>But <00:29:30.835>until <00:29:31.275>2022, <00:29:32.275>say, <00:29:33.175>we <00:29:33.695>still <00:29:33.955>had <00:29:34.155>brains <00:29:34.515>to <00:29:34.695>rely <00:29:34.955>on. <00:29:35.635>That's <00:29:36.155>our <00:29:37.015>trump

<00:29:37.295>card. <00:29:37.615>We're <00:29:37.815>always <00:29:38.095>going <00:29:38.235>to <00:29:38.315>win <00:29:38.455>against <00:29:38.735>tech <00:29:38.955>because <00:29:39.175>we <00:29:39.335>can <00:29:39.455>outthink <00:29:39.835>it. <00:29:40.555>I'm <00:29:41.075>not <00:29:41.195>sure <00:29:41.375>we <00:29:41.535>can <00:29:41.675>do <00:29:41.835>that <00:29:42.015>anymore. <00:29:42.275>And <00:29:42.575>if <00:29:42.755>our <00:29:43.095>brawn <00:29:43.615>superiority <00:29:45.015>left <00:29:46.035>us <00:29:46.215>100 <00:29:46.455>years <00:29:46.775>ago <00:29:47.135>and <00:29:47.695>now <00:29:47.915>our <00:29:48.115>brain <00:29:48.535>superiority <00:29:49.235>is <00:29:49.895>leaving <00:29:50.195>us, <00:29:50.755>I <00:29:51.395>don't <00:29:51.595>know <00:29:51.815>the <00:29:52.275>heck <00:29:52.515>we <00:29:52.715>do. <00:29:53.115>I <00:29:53.155>mean, <00:29:53.615>do <00:29:53.735>we <00:29:53.835>get <00:29:53.975>enjoyment <00:29:54.475>about <00:29:54.935>staring <00:29:55.955>at <00:29:56.215>a <00:29:56.335>computer? <00:29:57.175>Do <00:29:57.435>we <00:29:57.535>get <00:29:57.675>enjoyment <00:29:58.115>of <00:29:58.415>looking <00:29:58.655>at <00:29:58.835>a <00:29:58.935>machine <00:29:59.275>which <00:29:59.555>chops <00:29:59.975>up <00:30:00.195>our <00:30:00.415>beautiful <00:30:00.975>sushi <00:30:01.375>for <00:30:01.655>us? <00:30:02.035>Where <00:30:02.455>do <00:30:02.575>we <00:30:02.675>get <00:30:02.815>the <00:30:02.955>money <00:30:03.135>to <00:30:03.335>pay <00:30:03.595>for <00:30:03.795>that <00:30:03.955>machine? <00:30:04.675>You <00:30:04.895>know, <00:30:05.015>it's <00:30:05.115>all <00:30:05.255>of <00:30:05.335>these <00:30:05.555>kind <00:30:05.715>of <00:30:05.815>questions, <00:30:06.335>really. 72 00:30:06.495 --> 00:30:20.855 And <00:30:06.695>it's <00:30:06.835>also, <00:30:07.415>you <00:30:08.055>talked <00:30:08.295>about <00:30:08.535>the <00:30:08.875>Industrial <00:30:09.495>Revolution. <00:30:10.475>How <00:30:10.855>many, <00:30:11.335>I'm <00:30:12.615>not <00:30:12.775>a <00:30:12.915>historian, <00:30:13.595>although <00:30:13.735>I <00:30:14.175>love <00:30:14.475>history, <00:30:15.515>but <00:30:15.655>how <00:30:16.635>many, <00:30:16.875>the <00:30:17.855>Industrial <00:30:18.615>Revolution, <00:30:19.495>how <00:30:19.695>many <00:30:19.895>decades <00:30:20.295>was <00:30:20.615>that? 73 00:30:21.125 --> 00:30:41.385 Oh, <00:30:21.825>yeah. <00:30:22.125>I <00:30:22.145>mean, <00:30:22.385>you're <00:30:22.465>talking, <00:30:23.125>like, <00:30:23.365>I <00:30:23.545>mean, <00:30:24.405>it <00:30:24.485>isn't <00:30:24.725>a <00:30:24.845>hundred <00:30:25.085>years, <00:30:25.605>but <00:30:25.705>it <00:30:25.825>took <00:30:25.985>a <00:30:26.145>very <00:30:26.545>long <00:30:26.865>time <00:30:27.285>to... <00:30:27.945>Multiple <00:30:28.505>generations, <00:30:29.325>right? <00:30:29.425>Oh, <00:30:29.725>certainly. <00:30:30.345>Yeah, <00:30:30.545>yeah. <00:30:30.745>There <00:30:31.005>was <00:30:31.165>a <00:30:31.305>very <00:30:31.625>slow <00:30:31.985>evolution <00:30:32.545>and <00:30:32.745>uptake <00:30:33.185>because <00:30:33.505>those <00:30:33.865>machines <00:30:34.765>were <00:30:34.965>hard <00:30:35.145>to <00:30:35.285>manufacture. <00:30:36.345>Society <00:30:36.825>had <00:30:37.045>to <00:30:37.145>be <00:30:37.265>reconfigured. <00:30:38.005>People <00:30:38.225>had <00:30:38.445>to <00:30:38.585>move <00:30:38.925>into <00:30:39.145>different <00:30:39.505>housing <00:30:39.965>situations. <00:30:40.385>It's <00:30:40.645>very <00:30:40.825>complicated. 74 00:30:42.485 --> 00:30:44.845 Yeah, <00:30:42.905>AI <00:30:43.145>is <00:30:43.345>coming <00:30:43.525>at <00:30:43.665>the <00:30:43.805>speed <00:30:44.125>of <00:30:44.285>an <00:30:44.425>electron. 75 00:30:46.205 --> 00:31:08.385 Exactly. That's the problem. We don't have time to adapt. We have things like Kodak created the digital camera, I think, in 1974. But they, instead of adapting and changing and building that, I mean, no one uses a Kodak, you know, digital camera, right? Or I'm sure there is. I'm sure it exists, but... 76 00:31:08.385 --> 00:31:54.380 Yeah, yeah. Somewhere, somebody is. Somewhere, you know. But I'm just saying, they're not known as, you know, the ones that created it. And because they saw, you know what, we're making a whole lot of money off of the old school way of doing it with the photography, with the... And... The film. I couldn't even think of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The actual film that you used to cherish so much. Right. And they're like, you know, so they lost. And if you think about like Blockbuster Video, you know, like they, Netflix went to them, offered to be bought for $50 million. And Blockbuster was like, nah, we're going to do it the old school way. We like, you know, the system we have. 77 00:31:54.380 --> 00:32:09.080 And <00:31:54.860>it's, <00:31:55.280>that's, <00:31:55.960>you <00:31:56.020>know, <00:31:56.760>you, <00:31:57.080>we <00:31:57.500>all <00:31:57.780>have <00:31:58.080>to <00:31:58.260>adapt. <00:31:58.920>We <00:31:59.020>all <00:31:59.200>have <00:31:59.420>to <00:31:59.560>change. <00:31:59.960>I <00:32:00.440>don't <00:32:00.740>know <00:32:00.880>what <00:32:01.080>it <00:32:01.220>looks <00:32:01.480>like <00:32:01.700>next <00:32:01.940>year. <00:32:02.220>I <00:32:02.260>don't <00:32:02.380>know <00:32:02.460>what <00:32:02.580>it <00:32:02.680>looks <00:32:02.840>like <00:32:03.000>three <00:32:03.260>months <00:32:03.640>from <00:32:03.880>now. <00:32:04.360>But <00:32:04.820>I'm, <00:32:06.040>I'm <00:32:06.400>about <00:32:06.580>to <00:32:06.740>turn <00:32:07.020>50. <00:32:07.900>Not <00:32:08.100>excited <00:32:08.500>about <00:32:08.760>that. 78 00:32:09.700 --> 00:32:38.160 Oh, <00:32:10.560>I've been <00:32:10.640>there. <00:32:10.740>Done <00:32:10.820>that. <00:32:10.840>And

<00:32:11.240>to <00:32:11.360>be <00:32:11.460>honest, <00:32:11.800>I <00:32:11.880>kind <00:32:12.080>of <00:32:12.200>wish <00:32:12.500>I <00:32:12.720>were <00:32:12.880>about <00:32:13.100>10 <00:32:13.420>years <00:32:13.780>older <00:32:14.220>so <00:32:14.440>I <00:32:14.600>could <00:32:14.740>just <00:32:15.120>like, <00:32:15.620>I <00:32:16.640>could <00:32:17.160>just <00:32:17.480>retire <00:32:18.100>and <00:32:18.700>just <00:32:18.940>like, <00:32:19.420>you <00:32:19.500>know, <00:32:19.820>like, <00:32:20.080>but, <00:32:20.660>but <00:32:21.020>I've <00:32:21.460>got <00:32:21.660>to <00:32:21.880>adapt. <00:32:22.220>And <00:32:22.700>so <00:32:22.920>we <00:32:23.180>are <00:32:23.360>having <00:32:23.740>to <00:32:24.020>change <00:32:24.680>at <00:32:25.260>a <00:32:25.640>pace <00:32:26.180>that <00:32:26.480>humans <00:32:27.200>have <00:32:27.500>never <00:32:27.980>felt <00:32:28.760>before. <00:32:29.080>Before. <00:32:30.340>So, <00:32:30.940>so <00:32:31.240>this <00:32:31.460>is <00:32:31.580>a <00:32:31.700>curious <00:32:32.080>thing, <00:32:32.540>right? <00:32:32.820>And <00:32:32.920>this <00:32:33.220>is <00:32:33.400>one <00:32:33.780>of <00:32:33.920>the <00:32:34.180>things <00:32:34.620>which <00:32:34.900>I <00:32:35.300>find <00:32:35.680>so <00:32:35.940>interesting <00:32:36.420>is <00:32:36.960>that <00:32:37.680>sentence. 79 00:32:38.900 --> 00:33:07.900 It <00:32:39.680>seems <00:32:40.640>to <00:32:41.020>carry <00:32:41.380>water <00:32:41.980>in <00:32:43.400>that, <00:32:43.740>you <00:32:43.800>know, <00:32:44.020>we <00:32:44.660>always <00:32:44.900>say <00:32:45.080>we <00:32:45.740>have <00:32:45.980>to <00:32:46.140>adapt. <00:32:47.240>Do <00:32:47.680>we? <00:32:48.500>Do <00:32:48.940>we <00:32:49.180>have <00:32:49.400>to <00:32:49.540>adapt? <00:32:50.120>Or <00:32:50.220>is <00:32:50.540>it <00:32:50.700>possible <00:32:51.140>that, <00:32:51.980>like, <00:32:52.300>let's <00:32:52.700>say <00:32:52.900>that, <00:32:53.280>okay, <00:32:53.620>so <00:32:53.880>let's <00:32:54.440>just <00:32:54.580>imagine <00:32:54.940>a <00:32:55.140>dystopian <00:32:55.940>scenario, <00:32:56.720>right? <00:32:56.920>So <00:32:57.080>we're <00:32:57.520>imagining <00:32:57.940>something <00:32:58.240>in <00:32:58.400>the <00:32:58.460>future. <00:32:58.800>Let's <00:32:58.920>say <00:32:59.040>that <00:32:59.200>in <00:32:59.660>the <00:32:59.760>year <00:32:59.880>2028, <00:33:01.000>millions <00:33:01.860>of <00:33:02.080>people <00:33:02.340>have <00:33:02.560>lost <00:33:02.780>jobs, <00:33:03.380>there's <00:33:03.560>mass <00:33:03.880>unemployment. <00:33:04.360>I <00:33:04.800>mean, <00:33:05.020>obviously, <00:33:05.240>we <00:33:05.440>don't <00:33:05.740>wish <00:33:05.920>for <00:33:06.040>this <00:33:06.160>to <00:33:06.280>happen, <00:33:06.500>but <00:33:06.560>let's <00:33:06.740>imagine <00:33:07.100>that <00:33:07.260>that <00:33:07.420>happens. 80 00:33:09.080 --> 00:33:38.980

And <00:33:09.440>it's <00:33:09.800>not <00:33:10.140>outside <00:33:10.680>of <00:33:10.880>the <00:33:10.960>realms <00:33:11.180>of <00:33:11.320>possibility <00:33:11.780>for <00:33:12.220>society <00:33:12.660>to <00:33:12.900>turn <00:33:13.100>around <00:33:13.320>and <00:33:13.500>say, <00:33:13.900>you <00:33:14.000>know <00:33:14.100>what? <00:33:14.860>This <00:33:15.220>is <00:33:15.460>dumb. <00:33:16.700>We're <00:33:17.060>allowing <00:33:17.540>this <00:33:18.180>technology <00:33:18.800>to <00:33:19.520>ban <00:33:21.180>jacks <00:33:21.660>us <00:33:21.780>so <00:33:22.220>much. <00:33:23.420>Why <00:33:23.780>don't <00:33:23.900>we <00:33:24.000>just <00:33:24.180>put <00:33:24.340>it <00:33:24.440>back <00:33:24.620>in <00:33:24.760>a <00:33:24.840>box? <00:33:25.880>And <00:33:26.240>there'll <00:33:26.620>be <00:33:26.720>people <00:33:26.980>who <00:33:27.120>say, <00:33:27.440>no, <00:33:27.620>no, <00:33:27.720>no, <00:33:27.820>no, <00:33:27.900>no, <00:33:28.040>you <00:33:28.140>have <00:33:28.300>to <00:33:28.440>always <00:33:28.780>have <00:33:28.920>to <00:33:29.020>move <00:33:29.180>forward. <00:33:29.500>It <00:33:29.600>always <00:33:29.840>has <00:33:29.980>to <00:33:30.080>be <00:33:30.180>exploration <00:33:30.800>and <00:33:31.080>innovation <00:33:31.520>and <00:33:31.700>what <00:33:31.820>have <00:33:32.000>you. <00:33:32.640>But <00:33:33.040>you <00:33:33.160>look <00:33:33.360>over <00:33:33.540>your <00:33:33.660>shoulder <00:33:33.920>and <00:33:34.040>you <00:33:34.120>think, <00:33:34.340>yeah, <00:33:34.480>but <00:33:34.560>look, <00:33:34.920>there's <00:33:35.060>like <00:33:35.240>4 <00:33:35.640>million <00:33:35.900>people <00:33:36.260>on <00:33:36.460>the <00:33:36.940>streets <00:33:37.300>that <00:33:37.580>weren't <00:33:37.880>there <00:33:38.120>a <00:33:38.360>few <00:33:38.480>years <00:33:38.760>ago. 81 00:33:39.375 --> 00:34:26.875 Maybe <00:33:39.775>we <00:33:39.935>should <00:33:40.095>put <00:33:40.295>this <00:33:40.595>back <00:33:40.875>in <00:33:41.015>the <00:33:41.075>box. <00:33:41.415>I <00:33:41.695>don't <00:33:42.095>know <00:33:42.415>if <00:33:42.715>that's <00:33:42.995>coming, <00:33:43.315>but <00:33:43.975>I <00:33:44.235>don't <00:33:44.655>see <00:33:45.075>that <00:33:45.375>as <00:33:45.535>out <00:33:45.795>of <00:33:45.915>the <00:33:46.095>realms <00:33:46.555>of <00:33:46.795>possibility. <00:33:47.295>And <00:33:47.755>it <00:33:47.875>won't <00:33:48.235>be <00:33:48.435>much <00:33:48.715>comfort <00:33:49.155>for <00:33:49.435>the <00:33:49.555>people <00:33:49.815>on <00:33:49.995>the <00:33:50.135>street <00:33:50.535>to <00:33:51.275>be <00:33:51.455>told, <00:33:52.055>yeah, <00:33:52.595>but <00:33:52.735>it's <00:33:53.315>fine. <00:33:53.655>We're <00:33:53.955>just <00:33:54.115>moving <00:33:54.455>forwards. <00:33:55.135>You <00:33:55.195>know, <00:33:55.735>a <00:33:56.175>few <00:33:56.375>of <00:33:56.515>us <00:33:56.635>are <00:33:56.755>fine, <00:33:57.235>but, <00:33:57.455>you <00:33:57.835>know, <00:33:58.175>do <00:33:58.435>you <00:33:58.495>get <00:33:58.615>what <00:33:58.815>I'm <00:33:58.895>saying? <00:33:59.115>Yeah, <00:34:00.055>like, <00:34:00.315>I <00:34:00.635>get <00:34:02.075>that. <00:34:02.615>And <00:34:02.695>to <00:34:03.415>be <00:34:03.555>honest, <00:34:04.115>if <00:34:04.495>we <00:34:05.535>could <00:34:05.835>go <00:34:06.075>back <00:34:06.555>10 <00:34:07.215>years <00:34:07.755>and <00:34:08.335>all <00:34:09.475>this, <00:34:09.675>I <00:34:10.095>just <00:34:10.235>had <00:34:10.375>like <00:34:10.475>a <00:34:10.595>flashback <00:34:11.055>for <00:34:11.275>Terminator. <00:34:12.535>You <00:34:12.795>know, <00:34:12.955>go <00:34:13.095>back <00:34:13.255>in <00:34:13.455>time <00:34:13.595>and, <00:34:13.855>you <00:34:14.375>know, <00:34:14.635>let's <00:34:15.115>reset, <00:34:16.055>let's <00:34:17.775>destroy <00:34:18.435>the <00:34:18.675>robots <00:34:19.155>before <00:34:19.535>they, <00:34:20.175>you <00:34:20.235>know, <00:34:20.475>so, <00:34:21.355>which <00:34:22.195>is <00:34:22.995>unfortunate <00:34:23.775>that <00:34:24.095>that, <00:34:24.535>like, <00:34:25.295>Terminator <00:34:25.775>was... 82 00:34:27.945 --> 00:35:08.005 A lot more fictitious 20 years ago than it is now. But the problem is that it's already out, and there's no way we can revert, because if we're going to revert, 100% of everybody, every nation, everywhere has to revert. At least that's how I see it. No, I get it. Just saying it out loud like I did doesn't mean it's possible. I mean, obviously, if really society collapsed, I'm sure that we probably would have the intelligence to think, okay, what were the causes of this? Let's undo it. 83 00:35:08.005 --> 00:35:53.215 But <00:35:08.565>as <00:35:08.865>a <00:35:09.025>historian, <00:35:09.785>I <00:35:09.865>can <00:35:10.305>tell <00:35:10.545>you, <00:35:10.765>Aaron, <00:35:11.085>history <00:35:11.525>is <00:35:12.205>littered <00:35:13.525>with <00:35:14.245>catastrophically <00:35:16.625>stupid <00:35:17.385>decisions. <00:35:18.165>I <00:35:18.885>mean, <00:35:19.205>really <00:35:19.725>profoundly <00:35:20.585>stupid <00:35:21.505>decisions <00:35:22.025>which <00:35:22.385>affected <00:35:22.885>adversely <00:35:23.585>the <00:35:23.745>lives <00:35:24.105>of <00:35:24.285>millions <00:35:25.225>and <00:35:25.605>possibly <00:35:25.985>billions. <00:35:26.505>You <00:35:27.225>and <00:35:27.385>I <00:35:27.565>are <00:35:27.685>lucky <00:35:27.925>enough <00:35:28.105>to <00:35:28.285>have <00:35:28.425>lived <00:35:28.645>through... <00:35:29.275>Peace <00:35:29.675>in <00:35:29.875>our <00:35:30.035>time. <00:35:30.795>Obviously, <00:35:31.515>dear <00:35:31.995>listener, <00:35:32.515>if <00:35:32.575>you're <00:35:32.775>in <00:35:32.855>a <00:35:32.915>part <00:35:33.095>of <00:35:33.175>the <00:35:33.235>world <00:35:33.435>where <00:35:33.635>that <00:35:33.895>truth

<00:35:34.375>isn't <00:35:35.135>true <00:35:36.095>for <00:35:36.315>you, <00:35:36.575>I'm <00:35:36.775>sorry, <00:35:37.335>I'm <00:35:37.515>not <00:35:37.735>meaning <00:35:37.955>to <00:35:38.115>make <00:35:38.275>light <00:35:38.475>of <00:35:38.635>it. <00:35:38.955>But <00:35:39.335>we've <00:35:40.455>been <00:35:40.575>born <00:35:40.775>in <00:35:40.935>a <00:35:41.035>time <00:35:41.335>of <00:35:41.615>abundance. <00:35:42.435>I <00:35:42.835>mean, <00:35:43.095>the <00:35:43.235>majority <00:35:44.835>of <00:35:45.235>people <00:35:45.515>have <00:35:45.775>to <00:35:45.895>worry <00:35:46.115>about <00:35:46.375>is <00:35:46.835>how <00:35:47.755>nice <00:35:48.255>your <00:35:48.515>life <00:35:48.775>is <00:35:48.955>going <00:35:49.095>to <00:35:49.155>be, <00:35:49.495>not <00:35:49.615>whether <00:35:49.855>it's <00:35:50.055>going <00:35:50.275>to <00:35:50.435>be <00:35:50.575>nice. <00:35:50.955>You <00:35:51.035>might <00:35:51.335>get <00:35:51.515>sick <00:35:51.815>or <00:35:51.935>what <00:35:52.095>have <00:35:52.235>you. <00:35:52.415>I <00:35:52.475>understand <00:35:52.815>all <00:35:53.035>that. 84 00:35:53.215 --> 00:36:26.335 But <00:35:53.855>history <00:35:54.355>shows <00:35:54.755>that <00:35:55.015>that <00:35:55.455>isn't <00:35:55.755>always <00:35:55.975>the <00:35:56.135>way. <00:35:56.895>And <00:35:57.455>it <00:35:57.775>is <00:35:57.975>possible <00:35:58.395>that, <00:35:59.335>you <00:36:00.515>know, <00:36:00.715>we'll <00:36:00.875>have <00:36:01.055>some <00:36:01.275>sort <00:36:01.455>of <00:36:01.535>calamity <00:36:01.955>in <00:36:02.095>the <00:36:02.175>future. <00:36:02.575>Gosh, <00:36:02.855>I <00:36:02.935>am <00:36:03.095>being <00:36:03.395>a <00:36:03.695>doomer <00:36:04.035>today. <00:36:04.375>I'm <00:36:04.675>so <00:36:04.995>sorry. <00:36:05.335>Oh, <00:36:05.735>it's <00:36:05.875>all <00:36:05.975>good. <00:36:06.275>Well, <00:36:06.475>I <00:36:06.495>mean, <00:36:06.695>when <00:36:06.875>you <00:36:07.255>and <00:36:07.395>I <00:36:07.495>were <00:36:07.675>born, <00:36:08.335>starvation <00:36:10.855>was <00:36:11.235>still <00:36:11.455>a <00:36:11.675>thing. <00:36:12.915>Now, <00:36:13.695>the <00:36:14.255>chances <00:36:14.635>of <00:36:14.875>someone <00:36:15.215>dying <00:36:15.655>of <00:36:16.055>starvation, <00:36:16.895>don't <00:36:17.575>get <00:36:17.675>me <00:36:17.815>wrong. <00:36:18.695>I'm <00:36:19.135>sure <00:36:19.435>that <00:36:20.035>happens, <00:36:21.175>you <00:36:21.275>know, <00:36:21.475>but <00:36:21.595>as <00:36:22.635>far <00:36:22.835>as <00:36:23.015>like <00:36:23.235>a <00:36:23.415>whole <00:36:23.675>nation, <00:36:24.535>because <00:36:24.655>I <00:36:24.915>mean, <00:36:25.275>I <00:36:25.355>remember... 85 00:36:26.335 --> 00:36:55.160 I mean, I remember... In the 80s, there were always those commercials, you know, in Ethiopia where people are, man, you're depressing, you're bringing, you're forcing me to bring these things up. I'm bringing up Band-Aid and Live-Aid. Yeah, it's like, oh, man. But, you know, that was always, those commercials were out there, but that problem is overall solved. And you're right, we have, we are in the world of abundance. 86 00:36:56.320 --> 00:37:35.800 And it, I don't, I don't know what, what AI looks like in two years. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what it looks like in two months, you know, so it's, it's concerning, but, but, I mean. It would be hard for me to go back, though, too, because I've seen my productivity go up so high. I'm building so much stuff. It's like, I don't know. Right. It's like, I don't want to let it go. You know, sure, if every single person in the world could decide. 87 00:37:35.800 --> 00:38:10.140 Right. But you have Anthropik, you have, you know, Zuckerberg and Altman and all those people that are going to just push. I mean, I think we're pushing. I think the whole we're going to have next year is going to be a horrible financial year because all the bubbles going to burst. You know, I was around for the the dot com, you know, bubble. Yeah. And this is going to be significantly worse because it's the problem is, is that it's a lot of hype. You know, it is a great tool. 88 00:38:10.730 --> 00:38:39.430 But <00:38:11.230>it's <00:38:11.790>just <00:38:12.210>a <00:38:12.490>tool. <00:38:14.210>And <00:38:14.690>that's <00:38:15.010>how <00:38:15.470>I <00:38:15.710>see <00:38:15.930>it. <00:38:16.190>It's <00:38:16.310>just <00:38:16.550>I'm <00:38:17.230>able <00:38:17.410>to <00:38:17.570>use <00:38:17.870>a <00:38:18.010>tool <00:38:18.430>because <00:38:19.010>I <00:38:19.290>know <00:38:19.490>WordPress, <00:38:20.150>because <00:38:20.270>I <00:38:20.410>know <00:38:20.550>PHP, <00:38:21.530>you <00:38:21.590>know, <00:38:21.810>like <00:38:21.950>I <00:38:22.190>can <00:38:22.850>build <00:38:23.090>things <00:38:23.410>that <00:38:23.610>are <00:38:23.730>great. <00:38:25.830>I've <00:38:26.310>had <00:38:26.630>last, <00:38:27.590>was <00:38:28.270>it <00:38:28.370>yesterday? <00:38:29.130>I <00:38:29.370>had <00:38:29.430>a <00:38:29.510>client <00:38:29.910>reach <00:38:31.130>out <00:38:31.390>and <00:38:31.630>they <00:38:31.790>said, <00:38:32.190>hey, <00:38:32.350>we <00:38:32.450>built <00:38:32.710>an <00:38:32.870>application. <00:38:33.750>Can <00:38:33.830>we <00:38:34.010>put <00:38:34.190>it, <00:38:34.450>we <00:38:34.570>have <00:38:34.710>a, <00:38:34.950>we <00:38:35.150>sell <00:38:35.730>dedicated <00:38:36.350>servers. <00:38:37.050>So <00:38:37.170>some <00:38:37.770>clients <00:38:38.110>will <00:38:38.250>have <00:38:38.410>their <00:38:38.570>own <00:38:38.710>dedicated <00:38:39.070>server. 89 00:38:39.430 --> 00:39:11.910 They <00:38:39.910>said, <00:38:40.170>we built <00:38:40.390>this. <00:38:40.690>Can <00:38:40.750>we <00:38:40.850>put <00:38:41.030>it <00:38:41.130>on <00:38:41.230>the <00:38:41.370>server? <00:38:42.050>And <00:38:42.370>I'm

<00:38:42.490>like, <00:38:43.330>you <00:38:44.230>know, <00:38:44.490>stop. <00:38:45.010>And <00:38:45.310>I'm <00:38:45.450>like, <00:38:45.790>I <00:38:46.290>don't, <00:38:46.630>I <00:38:47.150>don't <00:38:47.430>trust <00:38:47.770>what <00:38:48.010>you <00:38:48.190>wrote. <00:38:48.510>I <00:38:48.930>don't, <00:38:49.370>you <00:38:49.450>know, <00:38:49.610>like, <00:38:49.970>I, <00:38:50.130>I <00:38:50.410>would <00:38:50.610>have <00:38:50.830>to <00:38:51.090>spend <00:38:51.330>some <00:38:51.530>time <00:38:51.850>and <00:38:52.130>learn <00:38:52.390>and <00:38:52.590>make <00:38:52.770>sure <00:38:52.930>that <00:38:53.150>that's <00:38:53.490>not <00:38:53.690>going <00:38:53.970>to <00:38:54.190>tank, <00:38:54.850>you <00:38:55.470>know, <00:38:55.670>what's <00:38:55.950>on <00:38:56.230>the <00:38:56.410>existing <00:38:56.850>server, <00:38:57.330>you <00:38:57.630>know, <00:38:57.750>so <00:38:57.890>so <00:38:58.030>it's <00:38:58.290>like, <00:38:58.610>I'm <00:38:59.970>cool <00:39:00.230>doing <00:39:00.450>it <00:39:00.630>because <00:39:00.850>I <00:39:01.050>have <00:39:01.330>30 <00:39:01.970>years <00:39:02.310>of <00:39:02.590>web <00:39:03.010>experience. <00:39:03.510>Do <00:39:04.010>I <00:39:04.190>want <00:39:04.610>randos, <00:39:05.890>you <00:39:07.250>know, <00:39:07.530>building <00:39:07.770>applications <00:39:08.370>and <00:39:08.850>deploying? <00:39:10.150>No, <00:39:10.710>you <00:39:10.970>know, <00:39:11.230>like <00:39:11.330>that's... 90 00:39:11.965 --> 00:39:35.085 That's <00:39:12.425>not, <00:39:12.785>that's <00:39:13.505>scarier, <00:39:13.925>you <00:39:14.385>know, <00:39:14.625>to <00:39:14.805>me. <00:39:16.205>Yeah, <00:39:16.985>I <00:39:17.065>genuinely <00:39:17.725>don't <00:39:18.165>know. <00:39:18.485>I'm <00:39:18.765>really <00:39:19.025>caught. <00:39:19.545>On <00:39:19.605>the <00:39:19.705>one <00:39:19.925>hand, <00:39:20.205>I'm <00:39:20.545>very <00:39:20.765>positive. <00:39:21.185>I <00:39:21.485>love <00:39:21.845>playing <00:39:22.145>with <00:39:22.345>all <00:39:22.485>this <00:39:22.685>stuff. <00:39:23.185>I <00:39:23.285>mean, <00:39:23.425>I'm <00:39:23.825>not <00:39:23.965>in <00:39:24.125>the <00:39:24.245>weeds <00:39:24.425>of <00:39:24.545>it <00:39:24.625>in <00:39:24.745>quite <00:39:25.045>the <00:39:25.165>same <00:39:25.305>way <00:39:25.465>that <00:39:25.565>you <00:39:25.685>are, <00:39:25.925>but <00:39:26.005>I <00:39:26.205>enjoy <00:39:26.705>looking <00:39:27.665>at <00:39:27.845>the <00:39:27.945>output <00:39:28.245>of <00:39:28.425>other <00:39:28.565>people <00:39:28.925>and <00:39:29.205>I <00:39:29.365>enjoy <00:39:29.825>the <00:39:30.385>capacity <00:39:30.805>for <00:39:31.345>people <00:39:32.785>who <00:39:32.985>have <00:39:33.385>no <00:39:33.545>experience <00:39:34.045>to <00:39:34.265>be <00:39:34.365>able <00:39:34.485>to <00:39:34.625>do <00:39:34.825>things. 91 00:39:35.085 --> 00:40:02.005 Like, there's just no

bit of that which sounds bad. It's all wonderful. You know, a 12-year-old child could build a credible web application, you know, to help them with, I don't know, whatever they're doing at school or whatever they're trying to do as a hobby. Like, all of that is suddenly available. But equally, there's a bit of me which is like, well, let's put on the brakes. Let's just try to figure out where this all ends up because of, I guess, with the historian in me, I just sort of worry about that a little bit. 92 00:40:02.785 --> 00:40:40.730 Yeah, I can't square the circle. I'm confused. I think I will be confused. I think basically it's just going to be a waiting game. I think we're all a little confused. It's a lot of change. It's a lot of uncertainty. No one feels safe when you're uncertain. My numbers are doing well, but that doesn't mean that in three months there isn't something out there that basically just ruins the way my whole life is. 93 00:40:40.750 --> 00:41:06.210 The <00:40:40.890>whole industry <00:40:41.470>does <00:40:42.310>stuff. <00:40:42.870>It's <00:40:43.370>changing. <00:40:45.110>It's <00:40:45.710>interesting <00:40:50.230>because <00:40:50.670>we <00:40:51.730>used <00:40:52.010>to <00:40:52.150>build <00:40:52.390>websites <00:40:52.910>because <00:40:53.290>humans <00:40:53.810>would <00:40:54.030>go <00:40:54.190>to <00:40:54.310>the <00:40:54.430>websites <00:40:54.830>to <00:40:55.130>read <00:40:55.410>the <00:40:55.590>information, <00:40:56.770>and <00:40:57.270>now <00:40:58.070>it's <00:40:58.350>like, <00:40:58.730>but <00:41:00.230>now <00:41:01.250>people <00:41:01.790>are <00:41:02.050>just <00:41:02.270>saying, <00:41:02.790>hey, <00:41:03.070>I <00:41:03.250>need <00:41:03.850>new <00:41:05.030>tires. <00:41:05.390>Where <00:41:05.690>do <00:41:05.790>I <00:41:05.910>go? 94 00:41:06.210 --> 00:41:32.170 Yeah. <00:41:06.670>And <00:41:06.850>it's <00:41:07.050>like, <00:41:07.310>so <00:41:07.770>they... <00:41:09.510>They <00:41:09.790>talk <00:41:10.330>to <00:41:10.510>Claude. <00:41:11.090>Claude <00:41:11.510>goes <00:41:11.890>and <00:41:12.130>researches <00:41:12.890>the <00:41:13.030>websites <00:41:13.610>in <00:41:14.610>returns. <00:41:15.670>We're <00:41:16.230>not <00:41:16.450>using <00:41:16.970>the <00:41:17.590>web <00:41:17.890>the <00:41:18.130>way <00:41:18.310>we <00:41:18.470>used <00:41:18.750>to, <00:41:19.090>but <00:41:19.150>we <00:41:19.290>still <00:41:19.570>need <00:41:20.090>the <00:41:20.430>website <00:41:20.750>to <00:41:21.010>exist <00:41:21.450>because <00:41:21.850>the <00:41:22.210>crawlers, <00:41:22.910>the <00:41:22.990>bots, <00:41:23.510>have <00:41:23.650>to <00:41:23.790>be <00:41:23.910>able <00:41:24.050>to <00:41:24.190>get <00:41:24.470>that <00:41:24.750>information <00:41:25.290>about <00:41:25.690>the <00:41:25.930>business. <00:41:26.610>So <00:41:26.950>does <00:41:27.530>it <00:41:27.670>matter <00:41:27.970>what <00:41:28.170>a <00:41:28.270>website <00:41:28.610>looks <00:41:29.230>like <00:41:29.550>anymore? <00:41:29.870>Yeah, <00:41:30.130>does <00:41:30.230>it <00:41:30.330>just <00:41:30.490>need <00:41:30.630>to <00:41:30.750>be <00:41:30.850>a <00:41:30.970>text <00:41:31.330>file, <00:41:31.790>basically? 95 00:41:32.470 --> 00:42:05.570 Correct. Well, and we're seeing stuff like that. I mean, there's a, what is it? LLM.txt file. Yeah, you know, like, you know, so we're clearly pivoting and we clearly want to make sure that websites look good in case a human uses it. I'm kind of fast forwarding a little bit here because, I mean, I still think there's a lot of people that still go to websites, but that number is dropping dramatically. It's not like how it was a couple years ago. 96 00:42:05.945 --> 00:42:31.185 I think basically what I'm advocating for is I want there to be a website Stone Age. I want everything to kind of be how it was like eight years ago. Can we just stay there? You know, there was so much wonderful stuff already happening. Can we just stay there, please? To be honest, I would have been real happy with, what was it, Fable 5? Like when Fable 5 came out in June-ish or so. 97 00:42:31.245 --> 00:42:57.445 Stop <00:42:31.605>there. <00:42:32.405>Right, <00:42:32.765>right. <00:42:33.065>Please, <00:42:33.505>please <00:42:34.345>stop <00:42:34.805>there. <00:42:35.345>You <00:42:35.465>know, <00:42:35.685>because, <00:42:36.225>and <00:42:37.085>let's <00:42:37.565>not <00:42:37.785>let <00:42:38.125>the <00:42:38.585>whole <00:42:38.825>world <00:42:39.185>use <00:42:39.485>it. <00:42:39.705>Let's <00:42:39.885>just <00:42:40.045>let, <00:42:40.405>you <00:42:41.225>know, <00:42:41.325>people <00:42:41.565>that <00:42:41.805>understand <00:42:42.585>technology <00:42:43.805>use <00:42:44.225>it. <00:42:44.445>You <00:42:44.505>know, <00:42:44.625>that <00:42:44.745>would <00:42:44.885>have <00:42:44.965>been <00:42:45.245>glorious. <00:42:46.365>That's <00:42:46.845>not <00:42:47.005>going <00:42:47.145>to <00:42:47.225>happen. <00:42:47.525>But <00:42:48.045>we, <00:42:48.245>we <00:42:48.505>can't <00:42:48.765>resist, <00:42:49.125>can <00:42:49.225>we? <00:42:49.505>If, <00:42:49.625>if <00:42:49.845>there's <00:42:50.065>a <00:42:50.145>big <00:42:50.385>red <00:42:50.685>button <00:42:51.045>somewhere <00:42:51.465>and <00:42:51.785>there's <00:42:51.965>a <00:42:52.065>sign <00:42:52.405>pointing <00:42:52.745>at <00:42:52.925>the <00:42:53.005>red <00:42:53.185>button <00:42:53.465>saying, <00:42:53.885>don't <00:42:54.125>press <00:42:54.385>the <00:42:54.545>red <00:42:54.725>button, <00:42:55.245>but <00:42:55.825>we <00:42:56.045>all <00:42:56.265>go <00:42:56.405>and <00:42:56.585>press <00:42:56.805>the <00:42:56.965>red <00:42:57.145>button. 98 00:42:57.645 --> 00:43:31.755 What <00:42:57.765>does <00:42:57.885>it <00:42:58.005>do? <00:42:58.185>I <00:42:58.265>want <00:42:58.385>to <00:42:58.445>push <00:42:58.665>it. <00:42:58.885>What's

<00:42:59.105>it <00:42:59.265>do? <00:42:59.565>What's <00:42:59.845>it <00:42:59.985>actually <00:43:00.305>do? <00:43:00.665>And <00:43:00.965>I <00:43:01.145>think <00:43:01.385>it's <00:43:01.585>a <00:43:01.705>bit <00:43:01.785>like <00:43:01.985>that. <00:43:02.345>And <00:43:02.405>so <00:43:02.685>we <00:43:03.205>haven't <00:43:03.525>quite <00:43:03.765>figured <00:43:04.005>out <00:43:04.305>what, <00:43:05.245>where <00:43:05.505>the, <00:43:05.985>so <00:43:06.345>it's <00:43:06.665>generally <00:43:07.305>speaking <00:43:07.745>that <00:43:08.085>this <00:43:08.305>problem <00:43:08.565>is <00:43:08.745>classified <00:43:09.265>as <00:43:09.465>the <00:43:09.625>alignment <00:43:10.045>problem. <00:43:10.895>And <00:43:11.195>the <00:43:11.295>alignment <00:43:11.615>problem <00:43:11.935>is, <00:43:12.315>does <00:43:12.975>this <00:43:13.595>whole <00:43:15.215>industry <00:43:15.655>of <00:43:15.915>technology, <00:43:16.595>you <00:43:16.635>know, <00:43:16.775>we'll <00:43:16.975>just <00:43:17.095>broadly <00:43:17.335>call <00:43:17.535>it <00:43:17.635>AI, <00:43:18.195>is <00:43:18.575>it <00:43:18.675>aligned <00:43:19.115>with <00:43:19.435>the <00:43:19.575>goals <00:43:19.875>of <00:43:20.015>human <00:43:20.315>beings? <00:43:20.995>And <00:43:21.375>if <00:43:21.695>it <00:43:21.815>isn't, <00:43:22.915>and <00:43:23.575>we <00:43:23.695>push <00:43:23.995>through, <00:43:24.635>that <00:43:24.775>might <00:43:25.155>end <00:43:25.455>up, <00:43:25.715>you <00:43:26.075>know, <00:43:26.315>unseating <00:43:26.775>an <00:43:26.915>awful <00:43:27.075>lot <00:43:27.255>of <00:43:27.355>assumptions <00:43:27.695>we've <00:43:27.975>got <00:43:28.075>about <00:43:28.315>society <00:43:28.935>and <00:43:29.415>universal <00:43:29.975>basic <00:43:30.315>income <00:43:30.715>and <00:43:30.895>all <00:43:30.975>of <00:43:31.055>these <00:43:31.235>kind <00:43:31.395>of <00:43:31.495>things. 99 00:43:32.615 --> 00:44:03.575 And <00:43:33.115>I'm <00:43:33.335>not <00:43:33.495>sure <00:43:33.815>if <00:43:34.215>many <00:43:34.975>of <00:43:35.155>the <00:43:35.275>things <00:43:35.475>that <00:43:35.655>we're <00:43:35.815>doing <00:43:36.015>to <00:43:36.195>ourselves <00:43:36.515>at <00:43:36.755>the <00:43:36.895>moment <00:43:37.235>are <00:43:37.855>in <00:43:38.495>the <00:43:38.715>long <00:43:39.155>term <00:43:39.595>aligned <00:43:40.795>with <00:43:41.055>the <00:43:41.195>long <00:43:41.415>term <00:43:41.635>interests <00:43:42.095>of <00:43:42.315>humanity. <00:43:43.055>I <00:43:43.115>mean, <00:43:43.315>it's <00:43:43.475>definitely <00:43:43.855>aligned <00:43:44.335>with <00:43:44.575>fun. <00:43:45.475>It's <00:43:45.975>definitely <00:43:46.415>aligned <00:43:46.895>with <00:43:47.095>having <00:43:47.295>a <00:43:47.435>nice <00:43:47.695>time <00:43:48.135>in <00:43:48.595>the <00:43:48.735>short <00:43:49.215>term. <00:43:49.735>While <00:43:49.835>it <00:43:50.415>lasts. <00:43:51.175>Right. <00:43:51.455>In <00:43:51.535>the <00:43:51.675>short <00:43:52.115>term, <00:43:52.475>it's <00:43:52.735>aligned <00:43:53.035>with <00:43:53.255>productivity. <00:43:53.775>But <00:43:54.835>if <00:43:55.075>everything <00:43:55.555>becomes <00:43:55.995>so <00:43:56.315>productive <00:43:56.955>that <00:43:57.335>no <00:43:57.575>humans <00:43:58.015>need <00:43:58.435>to <00:43:58.575>be <00:43:58.735>involved <00:43:59.035>in <00:43:59.255>anything <00:43:59.515>anymore, <00:44:00.155>then, <00:44:00.575>well, <00:44:01.075>that <00:44:01.195>wasn't <00:44:01.915>a <00:44:02.035>great <00:44:02.275>idea, <00:44:03.295>you <00:44:03.415>know. 100 00:44:04.075 --> 00:44:15.920 Yeah. <00:44:04.935>Absolutely. <00:44:05.735>But <00:44:05.895>who... <00:44:06.780>I <00:44:07.060>don't <00:44:07.200>know. <00:44:07.460>Let's <00:44:07.680>schedule <00:44:08.380>something <00:44:08.800>for <00:44:09.160>a <00:44:09.560>year <00:44:09.800>from <00:44:10.020>now <00:44:10.300>and <00:44:10.520>figure <00:44:11.040>out <00:44:11.320>how <00:44:11.620>bad, <00:44:12.700>you <00:44:12.780>know, <00:44:12.980>how <00:44:13.220>wrong <00:44:14.060>are <00:44:14.600>we? <00:44:15.140>How <00:44:15.240>right <00:44:15.540>are <00:44:15.660>we? 101 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:25.640 There'll <00:44:16.440>be <00:44:16.560>no <00:44:16.760>electricity <00:44:17.300>at <00:44:17.540>that <00:44:17.660>point, <00:44:18.020>Aaron. <00:44:18.340>Right, <00:44:18.580>right. <00:44:19.360>So <00:44:19.760>maybe <00:44:20.320>we'll <00:44:20.520>have <00:44:20.660>to <00:44:20.780>schedule <00:44:21.080>it, <00:44:21.460>you <00:44:21.600>know, <00:44:21.720>for <00:44:21.820>six <00:44:22.060>months. <00:44:22.560>Maybe <00:44:22.720>I'm <00:44:23.100>being <00:44:23.320>too <00:44:23.540>optimistic <00:44:24.160>that <00:44:24.440>we're <00:44:24.600>all <00:44:24.800>alive <00:44:25.180>in <00:44:25.340>a <00:44:25.480>year. 102 00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:40.300 Oh, <00:44:33.620>it's <00:44:33.760>all <00:44:33.900>good. <00:44:34.580>Yeah, <00:44:34.920>what <00:44:35.020>I've <00:44:35.220>got. <00:44:35.460>I'll <00:44:35.680>link <00:44:35.840>to <00:44:35.980>them <00:44:36.100>in <00:44:36.180>the <00:44:36.220>show <00:44:36.400>notes. <00:44:36.880>So Aaron <00:44:37.560>provided <00:44:38.180>me <00:44:38.340>with <00:44:38.480>a <00:44:38.540>bunch <00:44:38.700>of <00:44:38.780>links <00:44:39.000>to <00:44:39.180>projects <00:44:39.600>that <00:44:39.740>he's <00:44:39.860>been <00:44:39.960>working <00:44:40.180>on. 103 00:44:40.360 --> 00:45:05.640 So <00:44:40.420>you <00:44:40.500>can <00:44:40.580>go <00:44:40.720>and <00:44:40.820>have <00:44:40.940>a <00:44:41.320>little <00:44:41.660>play <00:44:41.920>around <00:44:42.220>and <00:44:42.400>what <00:44:42.580>have <00:44:42.760>you. <00:44:42.980>But <00:44:43.100>yeah, <00:44:43.680>we <00:44:44.220>don't <00:44:44.440>have <00:44:44.580>the <00:44:44.700>answers. <00:44:45.120>We <00:44:45.480>only <00:44:45.760>have <00:44:46.040>the <00:44:46.240>concern <00:44:46.820>and <00:44:47.100>the <00:44:47.200>worry <00:44:47.540>and <00:44:47.940>the <00:44:48.080>skepticism <00:44:48.700>and <00:44:48.980>the <00:44:49.100>doubt <00:44:49.440>and <00:44:49.720>the <00:44:49.840>interest <00:44:50.320>and <00:44:50.520>all <00:44:50.660>of <00:44:50.740>those <00:44:51.000>things. <00:44:51.440>But <00:44:51.600>I <00:44:52.340>appreciate <00:44:52.700>you <00:44:52.840>chatting <00:44:53.100>to <00:44:53.400>me <00:44:53.540>today <00:44:53.780>and <00:44:53.960>being <00:44:54.120>very <00:44:54.360>honest <00:44:54.660>about <00:44:54.860>all <00:44:55.060>that. <00:44:55.260>That's <00:44:55.420>lovely. <00:44:56.000>And <00:44:56.200>yeah, <00:44:57.220>I'll <00:44:57.400>see <00:44:57.560>you <00:44:57.680>in <00:44:57.800>2027 <00:44:58.540>if <00:44:59.180>we're <00:44:59.340>all <00:44:59.540>here. <00:44:59.880>Maybe. <00:45:00.760>If <00:45:01.280>we're <00:45:01.380>alive. <00:45:02.380>So if <00:45:02.560>the <00:45:03.240>Terminator <00:45:04.640>hasn't <00:45:05.020>gotten <00:45:05.240>us <00:45:05.500>yet. 104 00:45:05.740 --> 00:45:12.960 That's <00:45:06.040>right. <00:45:06.780>They <00:45:06.900>say <00:45:07.060>on <00:45:07.200>Top <00:45:07.400>Gear, <00:45:07.920>and <00:45:08.280>on <00:45:08.420>that <00:45:08.740>bombshell. <00:45:10.220>Yes, <00:45:10.880>fair <00:45:11.080>enough. <00:45:11.460>Well, <00:45:11.560>I <00:45:11.620>appreciate <00:45:11.980>it. <00:45:12.240>Thank <00:45:12.360>you <00:45:12.480>for <00:45:12.600>your <00:45:12.740>time. 105 00:45:13.340 --> 00:45:13.780 Thank <00:45:13.580>you.