התמלול המלא של Why The Shards?

fictional character made up for this story. 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:44.319 Oh, okay. 00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:48.560 It's not there was not a real trawler serial killer at the time. 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:58.240 So again, it is a fictional pseudo-autobiographical retelling just simply because the lead character is Brett Easton Ellis. 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:08.959 And in one episode, we saw him writing on the typewriter, and I saw the name Julian, and I think he was writing the less than zero book because that one was published in 1985, and this takes place in 1981. 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:10.480 It's a cool little Easter egg. 00:05:10.719 --> 00:05:11.120 I think so. 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:12.159 Yeah, that's cool. 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:20.079 Um so Brett Easton Ellis uses his own life for the majority of the work that he writes. 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:36.000 He was in high school in the late 70s, early 80s, and in Los Angeles, part of the Beverly Hills crew that had total absentee parents, total freedom, total access to their money, drugs, sex. 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:38.879 And it was all very glamorous. 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:47.920 But underneath all of that glamour is a loneliness, a feeling of alienation, um, sort of, I call it chasing the dragon. 00:05:48.079 --> 00:06:01.279 Like these people were just doing anything and everything at such a young age to feel like they mattered because the people that were supposed to make them feel like they mattered the most, their parents, were absent from their lives at this point in time. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:19.279 I I think that's what I have a really hard time watching uh in this show specifically, because I I especially am not a fan of uh this the familiar high school tropes of TV shows and movies where it's like, oh no, this poor rich kid, oh my problems, I have everything. 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.399 But but homecoming is the most important thing in the world. 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:26.159 How am I gonna so when I'm watching this play out, I'm like, you guys, shut up. 00:06:26.319 --> 00:06:28.319 Like, I don't do the drugs, it'd be fine. 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:30.240 You're you're great, you'll be okay. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.120 I can't connect with it because I don't care about them at all. 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:33.680 Sure. 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:47.360 But as this show plays off with many of Brett Easton Nellis' uh work, is that you you actually see, like you just described, the pain and the loss and the loneliness in these characters that that's what makes them interesting. 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:50.319 It's not all the the bullshit that they're surrounded with. 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:52.800 That's just like you said, the beautiful veneer. 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.279 Yes. 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:56.639 Where you're like, well, yeah, anyone could really do that. 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:58.079 Whatever, who care, who cares? 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.600 But then you see what these people are actually going through with that absentee parent situation. 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.480 You're like, wow, these kids are really troubled. 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:05.199 They're broken. 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:05.600 Yeah. 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:06.319 They're broken. 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.519 And they're they are 18-year-olds, 17 and 18-year-olds living like 25-year-olds. 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:12.159 Right. 00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:22.480 And I think when you are that age, it's very fun and exciting to be able to have that level of autonomy and freedom so early on. 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:42.319 But it it comes at a price because you are still at an age where you need guidance, you need support, you need your parents letting you know that you matter because without that sense of feeling like you are an important person who matters, you're going to make very self-destructive decisions. 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.719 And that's what all of these characters through his entire body of work have in common. 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.399 They all make incredibly self-destructive decisions. 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.279 And it's not just the kids, it's also in the parents. 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:58.800 We see this in The Informers with Kim Basinger and Billy Bob Thornton's character. 00:07:58.959 --> 00:07:59.279 Yeah, totally. 00:07:59.600 --> 00:07:59.759 Right. 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:05.519 We see it in the shards with Debbie's parents, played by Wes Bentley and Rachel Evan Wood. 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.480 I mean, just total, complete dysfunction. 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:08.800 Yeah. 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.560 And it just gets handed down from generation to generation. 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:26.879 I think with the baby boom generation and the very early Gen X generation, there was a very much of a sort of absentee latchkey kid kind of scenario going on. 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:27.439 Yeah. 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.159 And kids were really left to fend for themselves. 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:40.399 And when you have to fend for yourself, you feel like you don't matter because your parents aren't there, then not only do you make self-destructive decisions, but you make those in survival mode. 00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:46.960 You are learning earlier than you should how to take on the responsibility of the world so that you can manage your survival. 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:48.879 That is a lot for an 18-year-old. 00:08:49.360 --> 00:08:58.559 That's where the drugs and the alcohol and the sex and the really bad decisions come in, which the shards, like all of Brett Easton Ellis' work, is full of. 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:01.840 I mean, cocaine, booze, sex. 00:09:02.240 --> 00:09:03.679 It really doesn't hold back on any of it. 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:06.000 It does not hold back on any of it. 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.600 And again, as we've talked about in previous episodes, this is art. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:21.840 Art is meant to be

subversive in the way that it is designed to make you think, to make you be self-aware, to make you be mindful, to think about thinking and why are these people doing this? 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:36.159 I can see it being perceived as sensationalism or uh that that we're somehow uh promoting or highlighting um these acts. 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.279 These uh types of human nature. 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:42.320 And so I can see people watching it and just being turned off by that. 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:43.919 Ask like, why do we have to show that? 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:45.439 Why do we have to do that? 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:57.039 And I I remind myself too as I'm watching it that this this is a TV show, it's not real, but this is the kind of life that some people live because of everything that you just described. 00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:57.360 Yeah. 00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:06.000 And I think at one point in the last episode or the one before that, um Brett's character, his name is Brett in the show, right? 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:06.240 Yeah. 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:22.559 His character even says we are living our lives as though we are adults in a world where we know we are not, or something, something along the lines where like we know we're living far above or we're doing the things that we shouldn't be doing that only adults do. 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.159 And part of the reason that we do that is because there's no one here to tell us not to. 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:26.720 Right. 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:28.799 Because what else are we gonna do? 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:29.360 Yeah. 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:42.639 I and I think that not only are they missing the guidance from the parents, which may or may not be the case, but they're also finding kindred souls that are also lost in that way. 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:44.399 So they really have no guiding light. 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:46.480 We're like sometimes violating the blind. 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:47.200 It totally. 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:51.759 And you'll you'll find, especially in the queer community, you'll find people who find their chosen family. 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:52.000 Yeah. 00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:54.240 And that's usually where you find your mother figures. 00:10:55.679 --> 00:11:03.439 Like someone who helps to guide you along that path that maybe you're missing in a traditional maternal, paternal situation. 00:11:04.080 --> 00:11:08.559 Um, but you can see that these kids don't have that and they're finding it in each other. 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:14.960 And yeah, blind leading the blind, they're making mistakes, and the other ones are like, Yeah, do that, cocaine. 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:15.840 That's a perfect. 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:17.120 We're we're doing great. 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:30.240 And and the sad thing about that, which Brett in the shards also mentioned, is that too early on in his life, he realized that he was no longer a kid. 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:37.200 And

he didn't realize that he was no longer a kid until well after that last moment of being a kid had passed. 00:11:37.439 --> 00:11:44.720 And I've said to you many times before, you know, your childhood is so short. 00:11:45.439 --> 00:11:48.639 The world is intent on making it shorter, right? 00:11:48.879 --> 00:11:51.120 And you only have one go at being a child. 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:58.000 And I think that the world, including parents, need to let children be children. 00:11:58.159 --> 00:11:58.480 Yeah. 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.039 Because once it's done, that's it. 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:01.759 It's done. 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:04.799 And you can't control when that moment is gonna happen. 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:11.439 So let every moment while your kid is still in childhood count as a childhood moment. 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:12.000 Right. 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:13.919 Without perpetuating infantalization. 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:28.960 There's a yeah, you don't infanalize the child, but you also don't leave them to their own devices before they are at a moment where they are ready to cross over and say goodbye to their childhood. 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:30.480 And it should be a transition. 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:30.879 Yeah. 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:36.639 I think a lot of times there's a traumatic situation that happens in our lives that forces us to grow up very fast. 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:38.559 When you found out about Santa Claus. 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:48.000 Well, I mean like that kind of No, I I mean like traumatic situations because the world can be a predatory place in many different ways. 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:49.519 Like true traumatic situations. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:13:03.439 There could be divorce, there could be abuse, there could be um something that, you know, the the death of a friend, you know, whatever it is that takes you and pulls you and plucks you out of childhood. 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:03.679 Yeah. 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.919 And we don't know when that moment, again, is going to happen. 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:15.600 So the job is to make sure that until that moment happens, again, without infanalizing your child, give them their childhood. 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:37.679 Yeah, it's interesting you say that too, because I I can think of so much film when I was growing up almost was deliberately sending those messages, those traumatic messages when you have movies like My Girl and you're watching this girl's best friend die, or you're watching the never-ending story, and the kid is like trying to save his horse from drowning. 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:49.759 Like, there are so many of those moments that are traumatic storytelling elements that now looking back, thinking, like, oh well shit, there goes that part of my innocence just floating away through that's crazy. 00:13:50.080 --> 00:14:05.919 And they are all metaphors to the loss of innocence that are recreated in a tangible form of entertainment so that you can

put those feelings onto something that represents that loss of innocence. 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:15.439 When as a human being in the child stage of their life, they realize the world is not like my second grade classroom. 00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:19.439 The world is not like summer vacation, the world is not like Christmas break. 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:19.679 Yeah. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:27.679 The world, you know, when you once you start becoming aware that the world doesn't really care about you, it's an eye-opening experience. 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:44.000 And I think that the people who are better prepared to navigate that moment are the ones who, up until that moment, have been given the sense that they do matter, that they are important, that they are worthy, that they are valued. 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:44.320 Yeah. 00:14:44.559 --> 00:14:55.200 And I think more times than not, people make that leap into adulthood without that, which is why we see so many broken adults, so many narcissists, so many people in need of therapy. 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:55.439 Yeah. 00:14:55.679 --> 00:15:10.720 So many people being mean and hurtful and vindictive to the world at large, the Karen's, the, the, the peace disruptors, because they're really just trying to be seen, like in our episode that we recorded about people being distracted. 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:11.439 Yeah. 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:12.559 And why do you matter? 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.720 Because you really want to feel seen. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:15.360 Right. 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:31.519 And if you don't get that from very early on, then you don't know how to productively manage and navigate that in the arena of basically, you know, politics, which is navigating people to get what you want out of this world or what you need out of this world. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:33.120 Quick observation. 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:38.720 I I've noticed it's interesting how many of our episodes have kind of like intertwined in that way. 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:44.639 Like as we're talking, realizing like, oh yeah, that kind of connects to what we were just talking about in the in a recent episode. 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:54.080 Well, I think when you do a podcast about human nature, you are inevitably going to come back to what your conclusion of the foundation of the human experience is. 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:55.519 Yeah, I think you're right. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:59.120 And first and foremost, our job is to survive this experience. 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:05.840 Now, what does that encompass all the things that we talk about on our podcast? 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.519 And each episode has the same common denominator, the human experience. 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:10.080 Yeah. 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.439 And there are many different types of human experiences. 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:24.000 And going back to something that you said about, you know, the the glamour and the lascivious nature of work like this, people could tune into and be like, oh, why do I have to watch this? 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:32.399 Well, I don't look at this as gratuitous because we're not seeing nudity, we're not seeing sex acts actually played out, right? 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:38.320 The implication is there so that we understand what's happening. 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:45.120 But gratuitous is, you know, in like the 80s slasher movies where we have to see boobs just for the sake of seeing boobs. 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:45.279 Right. 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:45.679 Right. 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:56.320 Or the sex scene has to be explicit and graphic by nature because you have a storyteller who's really trying to grab the audience by the balls and force them to pay attention. 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:56.720 Yeah. 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:01.919 The problem is that the thing that you're doing to get their attention is where their attention stays. 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.240 And so they might miss the rest of the story. 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.440 In example for example, movies like Showgirls or Basic Instinct. 00:17:09.600 --> 00:17:09.840 Right. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:10.240 Right. 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:10.720 Yeah. 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:13.279 So, which I personally love. 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:25.200 I don't necessarily feel that I need to watch explicit sex scenes in order to get the idea or the understanding of what is happening to the relationship between these two people in that moment. 00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:30.000 You can start it off and then you can cut to I don't need to I don't need to see any at that point. 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:30.320 Yeah. 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:30.640 Yeah. 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:36.960 But what what Ryan Murphy and Brett Easton Ellis are doing in the shards, to me, it's not gratuitous. 00:17:37.040 --> 00:17:52.320 And if it makes you uncomfortable because you don't like the idea of knowing that people live this way for whatever reason, that's maybe all the more reason to watch the show because you are the person that this message is for. 00:17:52.480 --> 00:18:01.600 You are the person that needs to expand your breadth of mindfulness and not even self-awareness, but awareness. 00:18:01.840 --> 00:18:09.120 Because I've mentioned many times before, we all view our life through this keyhole perception that's created by our personal experience. 00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:11.680 But our experience is exclusive to us. 00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:20.640 And if we're going to be empathetic people, we need to be able to understand that there are people out there who are living their life through a very different keyhole. 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:22.240 I would agree with that. 00:18:22.560 --> 00:18:28.320 I think for me growing up, I uh I was pretty naive about most of this kind of stuff. 00:18:29.520 --> 00:18:38.320 Um just generally speaking, I think part of it was uh how I was brought up, but also a lot of it was I think I chose that. 00:18:39.040

--> 00:18:47.840 I felt safe staying away from scary movies, I felt uncomfortable around movies that had sexual moments in it. 00:18:48.000 --> 00:19:04.640 And so I think for me, not forcing myself to watch it or to experience it, but being open to it and knowing that this isn't just gratuitous or shown for the sake of doing it. 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:16.800 We've seen that, but being able to watch it in in in the understanding that this is someone else's life or someone else's story that may be so far off of my own, take a minute and take in what I can from it. 00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:17.200 Yeah. 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.400 It's there for a reason. 00:19:18.560 --> 00:19:24.800 Maybe I'll learn something, or maybe I'll get a brand new uh perspective or empathy for this type of situation. 00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:38.320 Well, and I think by nature humans are voyeuristic, but yet sometimes the thing that we are most intrigued by for whatever reason are the things that we associate the most shame around. 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:38.880 Yeah. 00:19:39.120 --> 00:19:44.720 And so there's this internal struggle, and I think you've you've gotta you gotta do away with it. 00:19:44.800 --> 00:19:44.960 Right. 00:19:45.040 --> 00:19:48.240 Like sometimes you just have to walk through the fire rather than around it. 00:19:48.320 --> 00:19:48.480 Yeah. 00:19:49.040 --> 00:19:51.280 And that's the point of life is experience. 00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:57.040 Um now doesn't mean you have to go down a rabbit hole with all the bad things that life represents. 00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:58.000 Right in the dark way. 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:05.200 But, you know, it it's I referenced the 90210 episode when they were talking about condoms in school. 00:20:05.600 --> 00:20:12.240 And Donna Martin's comment was like, you know, you if you have a pool, you can put a fence around it. 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:17.440 But if you know that the child is going to find some way to get into that pool, shouldn't they know how to swim? 00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:17.840 Yeah. 00:20:18.080 --> 00:20:27.920 And I think that, you know, in order to be able to properly navigate the world and all the different types of people in it, familiarize yourself with people who are different than yourself. 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:39.920 Because you're going to that's where conflict comes from, is not knowing how to communicate, not knowing how to touch base with somebody that you inevitably are going to have to from time to time in this world. 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:41.440 Yeah, I agree with that. 00:20:41.760 --> 00:20:54.240 So, and and it's interesting too, because I do think that, especially in the early stages of our relationship, you were very much um, you know, a rainbow and gumdrops kind of person, I called it. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:21:15.120 But in reality, it was a it was a deliberate intention on your part to stay away from the things that made you feel uncomfortable, I think, in the hopes that you could hold on to that innocence of your childhood as long as you possibly could before coming to terms with the idea that the world is not what we are sold when we are growing up as children. 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:18.240 I agree with that a hundred percent. 00:21:18.560 --> 00:21:20.640 And then enter me, stage left. 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:21.680 And you ruined everything. 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:26.240 And I I I blew the lid wide open on the first night we met. 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.120 I asked if you had ever watched Less Than Zero, and you said no. 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:30.240 No, no, it sounds fun. 00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:30.720 What is it? 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:31.120 What? 00:21:31.280 --> 00:21:36.320 I was like, you're coming over tomorrow night, we're gonna order a pizza and we're gonna watch Less Than Zero. 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:37.600 Oh and we did. 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:38.400 And we did. 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:45.920 That was that was the the gateway into so much of what my world really was growing up. 00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:52.000 I mean, I was a very precocious child, I was very eager to be ahead. 00:21:52.240 --> 00:22:01.200 Um, I think a lot of that was that my my school days were spent being bullied and teased and feeling less then. 00:22:01.360 --> 00:22:14.640 So whenever I was out of school, uh whether it was evenings or weekends, I was doing very adult things, not just to numb the pain that I felt during the day, but to engage in something that made me feel. 00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:23.360 Feel like even if these kids aren't aware of what I'm doing, I know that I'm doing something that contradicts the negative message. 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:36.400 But again, not knowing as a kid how to exhibit boundaries and how to make productive decisions, those led to a lot of counterproductive and self-destructive decisions. 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:42.000 Like I've been totally open to people who know me that I did my first line of cocaine when I was 12 years old. 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:43.920 And it was the 80s. 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.840 It was the Brett Easton Ellis era. 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:46.000 Yeah. 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:48.560 And I was hanging out with older kids in the neighborhood. 00:22:48.720 --> 00:23:04.000 It was there, and I went along for the ride because when I was doing that with them, it was the complete opposite experience to what I was experiencing as the kid during the day in school in my collegiate uniform being teased and made fun of. 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:18.960 Do you I've I I've always wondered this, and it's not an assumption on my part, but just the connection that you have to Brett Easton Ellis and his stories and the types of film that we see. 00:23:19.520 --> 00:23:26.000 Do you feel that that connection to those characters or to those experiences yourself? 00:23:26.080 --> 00:23:31.360 Is that is that what draws you to it that you see like that that kindred experience in there?

00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:34.640 Or is it just something that you see strictly as entertainment that you're like, that's fun? 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.640 No, it's not strictly entertainment. 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:50.720 I think there is a bit of a kindred spirit, but it I think it goes more to what you said earlier, where like the characters in the shards didn't have the guidance, and so they found what they needed in that chosen family. 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:51.280 Right. 00:23:51.520 --> 00:23:52.560 And that's what I did. 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:52.880 Yeah. 00:23:53.120 --> 00:24:02.080 And so when I watch movies like Less Than Zero or The Informers, it's almost like, okay, the cheese doesn't stand alone. 00:24:02.320 --> 00:24:03.280 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.080 I'm thinking I'm not exclusive to this experience. 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.320 There are other people that feel the way that I do. 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.920 There are other people that feel broken. 00:24:10.080 --> 00:24:16.320 There are other people that do self-destructive things to try to fix what feels broken in them. 00:24:17.040 --> 00:24:25.600 And once you find that you are not alone, you don't work so hard on trying to hide the broken pieces of yourself from the world. 00:24:25.760 --> 00:24:38.800 And then all of that time and energy that you waste on that ends up going into actually building mindfulness and self-awareness and not fixing those broken parts, but healing from those broken parts. 00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:43.600 Because as we grow older, we all come into adulthood with some form of trauma. 00:24:43.760 --> 00:24:48.320 You can either choose to heal the hurt or to perpetuate the hurt. 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:51.840 And for a big portion of my life, I perpetuated the hurt. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:53.920 I mean, I was just full of piss and vinegar. 00:24:54.080 --> 00:25:00.560 I wasn't a horrible person, but I, you know, when we first met, I was a very different person than I am now. 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.280 I I lived life as if I had something to prove. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.040 And now I couldn't give a shit. 00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:06.320 And my life is so much different. 00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:07.440 It's a great place to be. 00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:08.080 Right? 00:25:08.320 --> 00:25:09.600 It really is a great place to be denied. 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.520 I don't give a shit about people. 00:25:11.760 --> 00:25:12.000 Right. 00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:15.040 I don't give a shit about what people think of me. 00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:15.200 Yeah. 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:19.760 Because I give them the true, honest, and authentic Jared. 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:20.160 Yep. 00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:23.680 If you make something bad out of that, that's on you, not me. 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:24.160 Right. 00:25:24.560 --> 00:25:27.520 And I think that's what a lot of these characters are missing. 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:30.560

Well, they haven't discovered it yet because so many of them are so young. 00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:31.520 Exactly. 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.000 Yeah. 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.400 Um, and Ryan Murphy is to me a master of detail. 00:25:36.560 --> 00:25:52.880 So when you take something that is from the mind of Brett Easton Ellis, and you combine it with the uber attentive Ryan Murphy to detail when it comes to cars, clothing, music, so important. 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:53.440 Yeah. 00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:00.800 All of the details and how people act in situations, it really is, as you mentioned, a match made in heaven. 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:03.440 It is, I think it is pinnacle storytelling. 00:26:03.600 --> 00:26:13.840 And I'm just so pleased as someone who is a huge Brett Easton Ellis fan since Less Than Zero to see him uh in the Cultural Zeitgeist again. 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.160 Yeah. 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.600 And of course I saw Less Than Zero when I shouldn't have. 00:26:17.760 --> 00:26:20.080 I was 12 when I saw that movie. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:31.920 You know, it was so it was the end of the 80s, and I was entering junior high, and I, you know, I was like, fuck all to my elementary school experience. 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.720 And I was just gonna go balls to the wall. 00:26:35.520 --> 00:26:39.760 And I had a really good time. 00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:42.080 I'm not gonna lie, I had a good time. 00:26:42.320 --> 00:26:47.680 I definitely stunted my growth, but you know, now that I'm here, I don't care. 00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:48.240 Yeah. 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:53.040 You know, it's like once you get your driver's license, every day you didn't have your license doesn't matter anymore. 00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:53.440 Right. 00:26:53.600 --> 00:27:02.160 Once you reach a certain stage in your life, every part of your life that you weren't in that stage doesn't really matter anymore because we are meant to move forward. 00:27:02.320 --> 00:27:02.880 Yeah. 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.400 So I I I really do love the person that I am. 00:27:06.560 --> 00:27:15.840 I'm very happy with the person that I am, and I am only that person because of the experiences and the decisions that I've made along the way. 00:27:16.080 --> 00:27:25.920 And the older I get, the better I am at understanding how to make decisions that are productive to my goals rather than counterproductive to my goals. 00:27:26.080 --> 00:27:32.080 And understanding balance and boundaries when it comes to my naturally hedonistic tendencies. 00:27:32.560 --> 00:27:34.400 I love the person that you am too. 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:35.600 Thank you. 00:27:35.840 --> 00:27:42.560 And less than zero was uh it was a very big moment of realization for me. 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:57.680 It was the first time I actually saw a movie that did not sugarcoat the experience of being a lonely child, being an ostracized child, being a child who felt like you didn't matter, regardless of how much attention people may have paid on you. 00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:00.240 It's the wrong kind of attention at the wrong time. 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:00.720 Yeah. 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.680 And the book is extremely different than the movie. 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.760 Didn't you say there's vampires or something in it? 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:06.960 That's the informers. 00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:07.440 Oh, okay. 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:12.560 Less than zero is a lot harsher than the movie. 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:31.040 There are some things in the book that actually do make me uncomfortable because it shows how far these people have pushed their boundaries, their human boundaries, in the search to feel whole and in doing so damage anybody else that crosses their path. 00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:40.960 Um there's a um just a disregard for human life and it is bothering. 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:51.440 And the movie is, even though I said it didn't sugarcoat things, it did tone things down because the book was written about the children of Hollywood. 00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:51.760 Yeah. 00:28:51.920 --> 00:29:03.520 And none of the producers and the studio execs are going to let a movie or a book about their children depicted so honestly become a movie for the world at large to see. 00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:07.040 So it's very different than the book. 00:29:07.360 --> 00:29:14.800 And I appreciate both, but the movie will always have a special place in my heart because I saw it first. 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.560 I love Jamie Gertz. 00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:23.920 Uh, I love the way that the movie was able to still get the message across, even in a toned-down way. 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:26.480 So, like a little bit of sugar helps the medicine go down. 00:29:26.560 --> 00:29:26.880 Yeah. 00:29:27.040 --> 00:29:40.160 But still very raw, very real, very um acute in its perception of the situation and the time in these kids that were just like out of control. 00:29:40.800 --> 00:29:43.040 I think that's I think that's a great approach to it. 00:29:43.120 --> 00:29:52.240 In the same way that you mentioned not needing a full sexually explicit like moment in film to get the point across. 00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:54.080 It's the same kind of thing for me. 00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:05.920 Like it, yes, the book is going to be a little more in-depth, a little more detailed, and and and show or or reveal some things about these characters that maybe is a little too hot for TV, so to speak. 00:30:06.080 --> 00:30:06.240 Yeah. 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.240 But I also think we don't need all of that to still get the point across. 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:16.000 We still, it's still as impactful as it need be or could be with the story that it's telling. 00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:29.280 It's kind of like with uh it, when there are specific scenes taken from the book and not put into movie intentionally, we know that it's some of it would be depicted and could be controversial,

but it also tells a great story without it. 00:30:29.360 --> 00:30:31.520 We don't need everything to be one for one. 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.800 I agree with that. 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:37.440 And anytime you turn a book into a movie, you have to edit for just tiny steps. 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:37.920 Absolutely. 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:38.160 Yeah. 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:43.520 So I think that there were some very smart decisions made. 00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:52.160 I as an artist and as a creator, putting myself in Brett Easton Ellis' shoes, I could see why he might not be a fan of the movie. 00:30:53.040 --> 00:31:06.320 Um, but as an audience member and as somebody that was living that life as close to somebody could without going down the full rabbit hole, I appreciate its message um and its sentiment. 00:31:06.800 --> 00:31:13.200 And um I I just I really enjoyed it, and I was very happy when the sequel came out. 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:17.360 I mean, almost 12 years or 22 years later. 00:31:17.600 --> 00:31:18.480 What was that called again? 00:31:18.800 --> 00:31:19.920 Imperial Bedrooms. 00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:20.240 Okay. 00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:27.440 And that one was I think in Informers, the movie came out in 2007. 00:31:29.840 --> 00:31:33.840 So I think Imperial Bedrooms may have been like around 2012. 00:31:34.080 --> 00:31:36.160 I'm not 100% sure, but sounds about right. 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:51.360 Anyway, the thing that was interesting about the um Imperial Bedrooms novel was that it was the same characters from Less Than Zero, and these characters were aware of the Less Than Zero movie that had been made about them. 00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:52.000 Oh, right. 00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:58.880 So that's kind of like the meta experience of Imperial Bedrooms is that we rejoin these people years later. 00:31:59.040 --> 00:32:01.440 Julian is still alive somehow. 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:13.280 Well, yeah, I mean, that was a decision that I think they made to give the characters of Blair and Clay the catalyst to step away from that life. 00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:16.400 In the book and in real life, that doesn't always happen. 00:32:16.560 --> 00:32:21.040 Um, but he's I think he's a homeless prostitute at this point in time. 00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:32.720 And like I said, the characters are all acutely aware of how they were altered and depicted uh in the less than zero movie, which is a part of this universe. 00:32:33.040 --> 00:32:33.360 Right. 00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:35.200 Uh and I I really liked it. 00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:39.040 I I would have liked to have seen it made into a movie, but it just Oh, they didn't. 00:32:39.280 --> 00:32:42.320 I they did they did not make Imperial Bedrooms into a movie. 00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:55.520 Now they did make the Informers into a movie, and the Informers, the book was actually like it's almost like different short stories that had the same common denominator strung together. 00:32:55.840 --> 00:32:56.960 Kind of like an anthology. 00:32:57.280 --> 00:33:04.320 Yeah, or or like uh that movie Crash, where all the different characters have one underlying thread that connects them all. 00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:14.400 And that one did dive into like vampires in Los Angeles and um other things that were just sort of like, how do you how do you turn this into a movie? 00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:20.160 So the movie again, it was altered to tell one continuous storyline. 00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:26.560 And this this is about the kids that came up a couple years before the kids in less than zero. 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:32.160 And they were, I think they were out of high school. 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.200 Um, so they were a little bit older. 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:38.880 And I mean, but it's the same same thing, just broken people. 00:33:39.360 --> 00:34:01.600 Um, one of them is the informers, is a reference to the band that is playing throughout the movie, and the lead singer of the band is uh a heroin addict and an alcoholic and a pedophile, and then you've got the central characters um who kind of branch out into their friend and family group. 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.240 And I don't want to give too much of the movie away. 00:34:04.560 --> 00:34:13.920 Amber Heard is in it, and I think she's great in it, and she is like the one thing that connects all of these characters. 00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.679 So at the end of the movie, you're like, fuck everybody. 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.239 Yeah. 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:26.079 It's it's more of the same, but in a very unique and uh isolated storytelling sense. 00:34:26.160 --> 00:34:27.200 That's that's very cool. 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:34.320 I I again, it's another one that's very difficult for me to watch, but as I watch it, I find it very intriguing and seductive. 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:34.960 Yeah. 00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:47.119 And then we have something that steps outside of the realm of teenage early adult angst, and we go to American Psycho, which is a phenomenal movie. 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:47.920 It's a lot. 00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:50.480 It's it is, you know what, it is a lot. 00:34:50.640 --> 00:34:52.400 Uh I don't mind watching it though. 00:34:52.720 --> 00:34:55.680 I I I have to be in the headspace to watch it. 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:56.640 Well, that's true. 00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:01.119 Like I can put on less than zero anytime and just be fine having it on even in the background. 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.440 Yeah. 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:04.400 Yes, American Psycho, I have to be in the headspace. 00:35:04.640 --> 00:35:11.519 I I guess I'll say I find myself in the headspace more often than I would think I would be to watch that movie. 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.079 But it's, I mean, it's it's a great story, it's great acting. 00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:24.880 And I cannot confirm this, but I have been told that um what's his name? 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:33.280 Christian Bale's

character in American Psycho is the older brother to James Vanderbeek's character in the rules of attraction. 00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:34.800 Oh, that's right. 00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:35.760 You did mention that. 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:36.400 That's cool. 00:35:37.039 --> 00:35:38.240 I I like little things like that. 00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.160 Just extended lore moments. 00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:44.880 I think all of his work I think it exists in the same universe. 00:35:45.200 --> 00:35:45.920 That would make sense. 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:46.400 Yeah. 00:35:46.640 --> 00:36:04.240 Um, American Psycho was also kind of a little bit of a head trip for me, too, because you have this guy who's viciously murdering these people, and his his lust and zest for murder grows exponentially over the course of the movie. 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:10.720 But then you have these people that are a part of his quote-unquote day life or work life that he doesn't even touch. 00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:11.200 Right. 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:20.240 And it's like, how does a serial killer decide who is worthy of living and who is going to be on the chopping block? 00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:26.160 And that was really weird for me because you know, his girlfriend played by Reese Witherspoon, never in a million years would he kill her. 00:36:26.240 --> 00:36:31.680 His his mistress, the the douchebag guys that he hangs out with at the clubs. 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:41.039 No, but some homeless guy and a dog in an alley, some woman that he just happened to be at a stopwalk, uh crosswalk with. 00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:41.440 Yeah. 00:36:41.680 --> 00:36:43.200 Like, sure, no problem. 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:52.480 So it's it was very weird because the decision making seemed so intentional yet indiscriminate at the same time. 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:54.320 And arbitrary. 00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:55.200 Yeah. 00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:57.280 That's I mean, at least from my point of view. 00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:58.640 That's well, for mine too. 00:36:58.720 --> 00:37:01.440 That's that's part of what makes it so dark and difficult for me. 00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:01.760 Yeah. 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:08.160 Is that it could be anyone doing this, and it could be at any time, and it could be you. 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:13.440 Another reason why it's important to make yourself aware of the world around you, right? 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:33.680 Do you think do you think that Brett Easton Ellis writes these stories as a means to as a warning, or does he write them as a as as just like a storytelling, like, hey, my life was fucked up and here's what it was, or what I think would be a fun, entertaining version of it? 00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:41.760 Do you think he has a message where he's just trying to say, like, this world is really bad, you guys, and I want you to keep an eye out on yourselves. 00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:42.960 It's possible. 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:44.960 Maybe we should listen to his podcast. 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:45.680 Oh. 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:46.800 Yeah. 00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:51.519 Um I I think that there's gotta be a cathartic process. 00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:52.480 Oh, cathartic. 00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:57.360 Cathartic, or it's so cathartic, to his story writing and storytelling. 00:37:57.680 --> 00:37:58.000 For him. 00:37:58.240 --> 00:37:58.400 Yeah. 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:00.320 I I think that there is something of that. 00:38:00.559 --> 00:38:10.640 I think that also when you create something regardless of the intentional motivation behind the creation, if it's something that takes off with the general population, you're gonna continue. 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:11.599 You're gonna keep doing it. 00:38:11.680 --> 00:38:12.480 Yeah, you're gonna keep doing it. 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:13.200 It's validating. 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:14.960 It's that's what Stephen King does. 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:15.280 Right. 00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:18.720 He he releases this because they're dreams or nightmares of his. 00:38:18.880 --> 00:38:22.400 And part of that processing is releasing what he has experienced himself. 00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:43.760 It's I mean, it's one of the reasons why I enjoyed doing this podcast so much because being able to have these conversations with you out loud and for other people to listen and comment on is a way for me to process what I see happening in the world around me that I don't understand because it's not from my keyhole perception of life. 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:50.320 But I understand that there is a whole other world out there outside of my own little keyhole perception. 00:38:50.480 --> 00:39:03.519 And I I want to be made aware of that because the more I'm aware of it, the broader the scope of my keyhole perception becomes to the point where maybe someday it won't be keyhole. 00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:06.960 It's kind of the premise of this podcast to stay curious. 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:08.400 To stay curious, absolutely. 00:39:08.640 --> 00:39:11.360 We don't just say it because it's like, oh, how fun and catchy. 00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:23.440 We're saying it because that curia curiosity really helps to drive the human experience in a way that I think is very beneficial, enlightening, and ultimately just makes it a bit more bearable at times. 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:28.320 Well, maybe someday we'll we'll get Brett Eastonellis as a guest on one of our episodes. 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.440 That would be cool. 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:38.960 We can really dig into where it all comes from and why it keeps coming up and why he chooses to constantly revisit something. 00:39:39.119 --> 00:40:02.000 And you know, one of the other things that I think about too is there are people in my life that whether their perception is accurate or not, or even just slightly exaggerated, view points in my life or things that I do even now as being wrong, being out of control, whatever negative connotation you want to add

to it. 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:09.920 But to me, it's my experience and it's wonderful and it's fascinating and it's my journey. 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:12.480 And so for me, it's not a bad thing. 00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:18.880 Um, especially if you weren't the one that got pulled down into it. 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.119 Right. 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:24.720 You know, like I did all the things very fast, very early on. 00:40:25.200 --> 00:40:35.680 And I guess my lust for life and my desire to want to do all things kept me from getting sucked into just one thing. 00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:42.400 But there are people in my life that have really gone sideways. 00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:54.720 And I mean, we started out partying together with Blow in high school and then cut to 10 years later, and one of them is a heroin and crystal meth addict and injecting it. 00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:55.280 Right. 00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:58.960 And bad, bad, bad story. 00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:00.960 So what you're saying is just do everything. 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:02.160 For me, no. 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:06.000 For me, what I'm saying is that I'm the eye of my own storm. 00:41:06.160 --> 00:41:08.240 When you're in the eye of the storm, it's calm. 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:08.880 Yeah. 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:28.960 So for Brett, he might be putting all of this stuff out there that might seem extreme and and out of control for people, but when you've experienced the roller coaster, it's not as scary to you as it is to someone who's just standing on the ground watching the roller coaster go around, never having experienced it themselves. 00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:30.160 That's pretty cool. 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:36.000 So if it's something that you like, if it's something that you enjoy, why not revisit it? 00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.200 As long as you're not repeating the same mistakes over again. 00:41:39.280 --> 00:42:02.400 And maybe that is another part of the process, too, is the more he writes about this, the more I talk about some of the things that felt out of control from my past, the more I'm able to realize how anchored I am now and how grateful I am that I am the person that I am that went through that storm, found the eye of it, and then got spit out the other end unscathed. 00:42:02.720 --> 00:42:04.400 He probably feels the same way. 00:42:04.640 --> 00:42:14.400 If if this is as truly uh autobiographical as it claims to be, which I have no reason to think otherwise, he probably feels the same way. 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:14.720 Yeah. 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.240 There's probably it's his process to process. 00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:18.880 Right. 00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:20.160 And I love that. 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.400 That that really just resonated with me. 00:42:22.640 --> 00:42:25.519 It's his process to process. 00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:32.559 And we all have that right to process what we've experienced and to process the processing of it. 00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.000 It's very much like thinking about thinking. 00:42:36.160 --> 00:42:36.480 Yeah. 00:42:36.640 --> 00:42:41.280 And that breeds mindfulness, if not the definition of self-awareness. 00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:41.920 Right. 00:42:42.240 --> 00:42:47.680 Taking yourself outside of yourself and getting a bigger picture of the world around you. 00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:47.840 Yeah. 00:42:48.079 --> 00:43:13.280 Rather than just sort of bulldozing your way through life with your blinders on, which is, I think, so much of what we see on social media, on Instagram and TikTok, the bad behavior that we see on the social media platform is, I think, definitive of what we're talking about when we talk about traumatic, broken people who are choosing not to heal themselves because it's too scary to walk through the fire. 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:13.599 Yeah. 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:24.320 But yet here you have this example of however many other people you can find in your universe that have chosen to walk through the fire and are better for it. 00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:24.640 Right. 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:35.119 Like we have a friend who is very intimidated by therapy and the change that therapy induces because, well, then I won't be me anymore. 00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:38.720 No, you will be a better version of yourself. 00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:40.880 It's not like pod people time. 00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:41.200 Right. 00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:52.160 You will be more self-realized, more self-actualized, more in control, not just of your actions, but of your emotions and your perceptions and how you choose to respond and react to the world at large. 00:43:52.320 --> 00:44:08.720 And that puts you in the driver's seat of not giving you control because there's very little we have control over, but it puts you in the driver's seat of your own life because now you start to understand why instead of just witnessing what's happening around you. 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:16.880 And it's that shift in thinking of things happen to me, right, to things happen for me. 00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:17.360 Yeah. 00:44:17.680 --> 00:44:21.119 Everything becomes to your advantage rather than your disadvantage. 00:44:21.200 --> 00:44:25.599 And you remove yourself from being a victim of the experience of life. 00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:40.880 That mindful processing, uh, whether it be through therapy or just through your ability, if you've if you've figured that out for whatever reason, that that is what allows you or introduces you to yourself. 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.360 Yeah. 00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:48.079 It gives you the opportunity to really discover who you have the opportunity to be, who you could potentially be. 00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.000 It's going to be different, but we have to strive for that too. 00:44:52.640 --> 00:44:54.480 Well, isn't it absolutely wonderful? 00:44:54.720 --> 00:44:57.760 It's pretty to look at yourself in the mirror and say you. 00:44:58.000 -->

00:44:58.160 Yeah. 00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:04.960 And I think a lot of people feel so little about themselves as the world intends to make us feel. 00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:05.680 Right. 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:10.079 That people look in the mirror and they think, I don't want to know who that person is. 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:15.360 Or they'll get messages from other people who say, I'm not interested in that other version of you. 00:45:15.680 --> 00:45:17.440 And that's why you have to not give a fuck. 00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.079 Right. 00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:19.360 It's really important. 00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:19.840 Yeah. 00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:20.960 It's really important. 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.519 I I completely agree with you. 00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.000 I I want to be my friend. 00:45:26.160 --> 00:45:27.920 I want to know myself. 00:45:28.240 --> 00:45:33.119 And that is a really good feeling because for a big part of my life, I ran from that. 00:45:33.200 --> 00:45:35.280 And I think it's the only reason. 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:39.440 Only reason that I can speak to it. 00:45:39.680 --> 00:45:40.079 Right. 00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:40.480 Yeah. 00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:42.240 Because I experienced it. 00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:42.480 Yeah. 00:45:42.640 --> 00:45:45.760 I'm not coming from a place of inexperience and judgment. 00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:48.400 I'm coming from a place of experience and empathy. 00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:53.440 Not just for other people who are struggling with that fight, but for myself. 00:45:53.680 --> 00:46:01.680 And if you can treat yourself the way you treat the person that you like the most in this world, that is a wonderful place to be. 00:46:02.160 --> 00:46:04.320 Because charity starts in the home. 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:13.200 So if you can fix yourself, if you can heal yourself, if you can love yourself, then everyone else around you is going to benefit from that as well. 00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:13.760 Right. 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:14.640 Yep. 00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:24.160 So I think that's probably maybe another reason why Brett Easton Ellis writes what he writes, why Ryan Murphy produces what he produces. 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:35.840 Why there are certain people that choose to tell stories that make people uncomfortable because if it wasn't uncomfortable, then where would the growth come from? 00:46:36.160 --> 00:46:37.280 No pain, no gain. 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:37.760 Right. 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:39.920 So I applaud their efforts. 00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:41.440 I applaud their art. 00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:47.519 And it definitely is something that I find entertaining, but I also find thought-provoking. 00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:51.200 And I quite like it. 00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:58.640 So uh thank you guys for listening. 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.079 I think we're gonna end on that. 00:47:00.240 --> 00:47:05.280 Don't forget to tune into the Shards Wednesday nights at nine o'clock on FX or Hulu. 00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:09.840 And um we're gonna go have a Brett Easton Ellis evening. 00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:11.920 We will see you guys next Tuesday.