התמלול המלא של Wellington North Panel: Candidates Tamatha Paul, Ayesha Verrall and Jonathan Pitts join Nick Mills

Wellington since 2005. I'm a single dad. I live in Kandala with my two boys. I've lived all over the world. Wellington is my favorite place to live in. I've lived in New York, London, Tokyo, Palmerston North. And I don't want to live anywhere else. Wellington has got such a diverse range of qualities and businesses. I think it's a great place. And over the last few years, Wellington has been through the ringer. 00:03:08 Speaker 2: It has been. 00:03:09 Speaker 5: And we're trying our best to improve that. We want to invest more in tech and more of the creative spaces. We're trying to do that as we can. But we also have a council that has made some kind of weird decisions over the last few years. And I think Wellington ratepayers have borne the brunt of that. And so if you elect me as a Wellington North MP, I'll be a counterweight to some of the decisions that the council has made over the last years to make sure that they make better ones and more responsible ones in the future. 00:03:35 Speaker 3: Right. 00:03:35 Speaker 2: You've heard from Tamitha Paul, Dr. Aisha Vero, and Jonathan Pitts. Oh, sorry, Tamatha. Gosh, I forgot Tamatha. Tamatha, your time starts now. 00:03:47 Speaker 4: Thanks, Nick. Tēnā tātou, morene everybody. My name's Tamatha Paul. I am the MP for Wellington Central and I'm standing for the Green Party in Wellington North. At the moment, we're running, I would say, the biggest ground campaign in the country across all parties. We've phone called and door knocked 42,000 doors and phones. And that's because I want to keep being the electorate MP for the city. People might know me as one of the youngest and most outspoken MPs in our parliament, but even in opposition, I've managed to be effective in terms of helping to get Miaunui open in the city, which is a great venue and is great for our economy, but also helping to pass New Zealand's first ever stalking law working across different political parties. So that's an opposition, but in government, I'm keen to get a hold of those levers for our city, which means fully reversing the public service cuts, which has decimated our city, but also a range of other green policies they'll be pushing forward that will be great for our city. 00:04:44 Speaker 2: Now you've heard from all three of our candidates. I'm going to just quickly ask you about door knocking. You said you've been, Tamatha, 42,000. Yeah. I mean, that's incredible. How do you do it? 00:04:55 Speaker 4: Well, this is the thing, Nick, is that, you know, a party like the Greens, we can't rely on big donations. And so what we do have is numbers and people. And our people are our greatest messengers in our communities. And they're just people's next door neighbours. 00:05:08 Speaker 2: So that's your whole team. That's just not you. You didn't do 42,000. Oh, no, not myself. 00:05:12 Speaker 4: No, that is our hundreds of volunteers who have been getting out there. 00:05:15 Speaker 2: How many have you done yourself? 00:05:16

Speaker 3: You do it? 00:05:17 Speaker 4: Oh, I've done heaps. I've done most of the suburbs, but phone calling is probably the best use of time because you can smash through a list. But can I just say one of the main things that we've actually been doing is making sure people know that the electoral laws have changed and that they needed to enrol before the 25th, and now we're focusing on get out the vote. So it's not just being like party vote green and vote for me for MP, but also know that these changes have been made and don't forget to vote. 00:05:39 Speaker 2: Now, there's been some boundary changes. The old Wellington Central are now including Crofton Downs, Niall and Kandala. Aisha, that's, you know, probably a little bit right wing for you. 00:05:51 Speaker 3: Certainly not. And I meant what I said about wanting to be an MP for the whole of the electorate. Being the local MP isn't about party politics. It's about representing people to address their everyday concerns. When government isn't working for them, making sure that an ACC issue, an immigration issue can be sorted out by the local MP. I was just at flyering... leafleting by the train station in Candala, the most common response when someone stopped to chat was, I've already voted for you. We're getting good support up there. 00:06:21 Speaker 2: Are you doing the door knocking as well? 00:06:23 Speaker 3: Absolutely. I have worn my shoes out door knocking in Wellington and it's been fantastic. It's a wonderful opportunity to connect on the privacy of someone's doorstep. They really open up about what's on their mind. 00:06:35 Speaker 2: What about, Jonathan, people that don't want? I had someone knock on my door on Sunday. I don't want politicians knocking at my door. How many of those do you get? I mean, are you out there door knocking as well? 00:06:47 Speaker 5: I've personally knocked on about 4,000 doors. So yeah, I started door knocking back in April and I was door knocking yesterday in Crofton Downs. I even door knocked in Arrow Valley where I'm not that popular. Someone keeps stealing my signs. But I love talking to people and I love going to businesses in Arrow Valley and chatting to see how they're doing and You know, there's a lot of, I think Wellington is actually improving. And so that's the messages I'm hearing is actually, you know, it's been tough times, but things are actually changing. 00:07:16 Speaker 2: This is a really tough one for you guys, because we all know that the CBD has been doing it tough. You know, I know there's a lot of the suburbs there, but, you know, they're close to the CBD. So it's made a difference. I mean, Tamitha, can you honestly say that Wellington, you know, is actually better than it was three years ago? 00:07:34 Speaker 4: Well, no, because– and one of the biggest reasons for that is because of all of the public service job cuts. You talk to any business owners, any business owner, any taxi driver, any person working in cafe or hospo, and they'll tell you that people don't want to spend money because they don't have job security, they don't have money in their pocket. And they're scared about their futures. And so they're holding on to every cent that they have. So I think the first thing we'll do when we change the government, starting on Monday, is send out a directive to say, stop the public service job cuts, because that work still has to be done, Nick, but it'll get done more expensively if we have to contract it out. 00:08:08 Speaker 2: Jonathan, come to you on this one. I mean, do you think we're better over the last three years? 00:08:14 Speaker 5: You know, it's been a tough time, but I think it's been overstated. Like Aisha and Tamitha talk about Wellington as if it's a ghost town, as it's been decimated. But I wander through Lampton Quay and Courtney Place with my children all the time, and it's busy. There's new businesses opening. You know, we've got Linots down the road. You know, when Leuven closed down, everyone thought it was doom and gloom. But, you know, within a couple of months, there was a new bar there. So, you know, there has been some changes, but I think Wellington is doing better. 00:08:40 Speaker 3: Yeah, but. 00:08:42 Speaker 2: So, I mean, this whole, you know, one closes, another one opens, Aisha, doesn't mean it's actually better though, does it? 00:08:48 Speaker 3: No, it doesn't. There's definitely been hard economic times in our city. There's no escaping that. And I put out the facts, 10,000 jobs lost across the city, 1,500 business closures. So that's definitely a reality. Look, there are rays of optimism, though we don't want to talk the city down. I mean, seeing the centre of the city stop being, it's about to stop being a, construction site and, you know, lots of people will be able to enjoy the town hall, the library, our art gallery only recently reopened. So I think for some of the retailers and people who want that vibrancy back in the heart of our city, you know, we're almost there. But we definitely need people with their money in their pockets spending it in the city. 00:09:30 Speaker 2: Jonathan, how did you feel knocking on the doors, you know, and people know about the cuts? Did you stand by the cuts? Yeah, and I've spoken a lot. 00:09:36 Speaker 5: I was speaking to someone yesterday who works in the public sector And, you know, I have had quite a range of views. Like some people have cried on me because they're worried they're going to lose their job over the weekend, which is not correct. But some people in the public sector say, actually, you know what? 00:09:50 Speaker 3: The public sector could. 00:09:51 Speaker 5: Be more efficient. It can actually work better. So we don't want to cut people's jobs just for the sake of cutting jobs. But we want to make sure the public sector is actually working efficiently for the general, New Zealand taxpayers. 00:10:02 Speaker 2: It's a pretty tough gig for you, Darren. It is.

00:10:05 Speaker 5: But there's an example the other day that Ministry of Cities, Environment, Regions and Transport said they're going to cut 400 jobs over the next three years. But of those 400 jobs, 365 are currently vacant. So that's not being reported. So there's going to be natural attrition, people leaving jobs anyway. 00:10:22 Speaker 2: I probably also mean it's a pretty tough gig for you because– I mean, you're up against two extremely well-respected, well-known opposition, aren't you? 00:10:33 Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. Well, can I just say on that, that we've had a pretty collegial debate, but I think for me, and I don't know if Aisha feels the same, I would rather direct my criticism to the leaders who actually made those decisions, i.e. Nicola, i.e. Luxon, i.e. Winston and David. I'd rather direct my criticism to them rather than Jonathan. 00:10:54 Speaker 2: I could be sitting in the studio with The Minister of Police and the Minister of Health, couldn't I? Think about that. 00:11:01 Speaker 4: I've already been ruled out for that, Nick. 00:11:03 Speaker 2: Oh, have you? 00:11:03 Speaker 4: You'll be thanking the heavens for that, won't you? 00:11:06 Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything. I just made a comment. You're pushing me into a corner. 00:11:11 Speaker 4: Oh, I know what you say about me and the police, Nick. 00:11:14 Speaker 2: Time for a break. I need a cup of tea. 00:11:17 Speaker 1: Questioning the people who want to represent you. The Wellington North election special on Wellington Mornings. Newstalk ZB, your home for election 2026. 00:11:27 Speaker 2: Dr Aisha Vero, Jonathan Pitts and Tamatha Paul joining us for Wellington North debate. I want to know, and I'm going to start with you, Jonathan, who's going to fix the homelessness problem in Wellington? 00:11:41 Speaker 5: Well, I think it's going to be a group effort. You know, it has to involve council, community organisations, the government. You know, there's a whole range of things that need to be done, you know, and actually looking at the reasons why there's homelessness. Each person out there has a variety of reasons why they're homeless. So, you know, if it's addiction, we need to get them into treatment. If there are mental health issues, then we need to make sure that they're getting treatment for their mental health issues. But also, you know, then at the same time, we need to make sure there's actually places for these people to go. So, you know, Whakamaru has been a big provider for homeless people. We have women's refuge on the hill. You know, those kind of places. 00:12:15 Speaker 2: Do you think that the national, the moving odd orders made any difference? 00:12:19 Speaker 5: Don't know. I mean, it only came into effect two weeks ago, so we'll see. 00:12:21 Speaker 2: Aisha, do you think it made any difference? You think it's going to make any difference? And whose problem is it? 00:12:27 Speaker 3: It is a problem that reflects our standards as a community. And I think it's a sign of a moral failure of us as a community that there are people living on the street. We can house all those people. We did over COVID. And Jonathan's not wrong in the solutions that he outlines, but the issue is the number of homelessness has markedly increased in our city because of the government's cuts to emergency housing. And that is a deliberate policy decision that we will reverse. 00:12:57 Speaker 2: But how do we get the people off the street? 00:12:59 Speaker 3: Well, get them into emergency housing. The government made a political decision that they'd like to get tough on people in motels And as a result, yep, they got a little political hit out of that. And now there are people on the street. And that is unacceptable. So we'll reverse that. We want to use the housing first approach where people get a house and then get the wraparound mental health and addiction and other social services support that they need. 00:13:28 Speaker 4: One of the big things that we did in the lead up to the move on orders going through Parliament is I went and talked to businesses. So in the end, we got over 50 businesses, ground floor and the CBD on board. And if you actually walk around town, you'll see these green posters and all of the shop fronts that say housing, not handcuffs. And on the back of it, it says. solutions that will work to end homelessness. And it lists things like some of the things that Aisha and Jonathan have said. And then it says what won't end homelessness is move on orders. So talking to the businesses who, you know, Paul Goldsmith argues is the reason for the move on orders. Here in Wellington, they're not supportive of a criminal response. They want a health and housing response. 00:14:05 Speaker 2: But they definitely want, and please don't tell me they don't, Tamitha, because I'm talking to them every day of the week. They want them moved on. So how can you secure that they're going to be moved on? 00:14:14 Speaker 4: No, no, they want an end to homelessness. The conversations that I've had is that they understand that if you just shift the people, then the problem goes to Newtown, it goes to Miramar, it goes to Johnsonville, it goes out into the suburbs, it. 00:14:26 Speaker 2: Doesn't actually solve the problem. So what is your coalition government, if you do become government, going to do? Are you going to get... them off the streets. 00:14:32 Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely. Because what the driving factor was for increasing homelessness was the decision to put the onus back on homeless people. When they walk into MSD and they ask for emergency housing grants to get into a motel or the like, they get assessed on whether they've contributed to their own homelessness. And that is the direct driver for why we have the highest rates of homelessness in recorded history in this country. 00:14:54 Speaker 2: Aisha, you're nodding your head with an agreement. Who the hell is going to be able to pay for

it? 00:14:59 Speaker 3: Well, we were paying for it not that long ago before the government cut emergency housing and cut Kāinga Ora housing builds. So that's very straightforward. Just remember three years ago, yes, there were a few homeless people. That has been a long-term issue. But it has more than doubled because of this policy change that is practical and simple to reverse. 00:15:23 Speaker 1: Right. 00:15:24 Speaker 2: Jonathan, when I went to get my coffee at 7 o'clock this morning... There was a guy in a doorway asleep, you know, all covered up. Surely that's not good enough. 00:15:34 Speaker 5: No, of course not. 00:15:36 Speaker 2: And what are you going to do about it? 00:15:38 Speaker 5: We talked about Kaingora. I think we've built like 9,000 houses in the last three years. You know, we're changing. 00:15:45 Speaker 2: Check it if you like. 00:15:47 Speaker 5: You know, and some of the bills for social housing, like we– I think there was like a 12% supply of single-bedroom social houses when there was actually 65% on– of demand from single bedroom um people so we've had to change that and really look at actual needs and demands of actual that sector so ensuring that you know like we have in crofton downs as a as a big single bedroom block of apartments being built by the by the council that's actually going to help out people who are single who just need a single bedroom rather than two three bedroom ones so it's actually looking at the actual needs and addressing it. 00:16:19 Speaker 2: Properly timothy Tell me what your thoughts are of Wellington City Council. You've been on that council. You've known of the issues that we've had. You know, I know you're going to smile at me when I ask you this. We've had issues there before. Tell me what your thoughts are right now. Tell our listeners what your thoughts are of the Wellington City Council right now. 00:16:41 Speaker 4: There are some things that I would probably like them to be doing differently. 00:16:46 Speaker 2: Tell us. 00:16:47 Speaker 4: Well, I just think that there's a little bit of old school thinking going on when it comes to the city and how it operates. 00:16:56 Speaker 2: However. 00:16:57 Speaker 4: One thing that definitely has to happen is the government needs to provide some certainty to councils in terms of rates because they're obviously preparing for this rates cap, this 2% to 4% rates cap, and that's meant they've had to have a hard look, go line by line on all of their services, the pools, the libraries, the community centres, and are looking to reduce services and availability of those things. 00:17:17 Speaker 2: Give us a score out of 10. I mean, they're one year into it. Give us a score. How are you feeling? How's your gut? 00:17:25 Speaker 4: Well, at the moment, they're looking at cutting all these services and. 00:17:28 Speaker 2: Laying off staff members. You're not giving me a score. 00:17:30 Speaker 4: Can I have a score? I'm going to give that a six. 00:17:32 Speaker 2: Are you going to give it a six? 00:17:33 Speaker 4: I'm going to give it a five. 00:17:34 Speaker 2: Five. Five. 00:17:35 Speaker 4: But that's not due to their own decisions. That's because they're having to make hard decisions because the government... wants to crack down on local water. 00:17:42 Speaker 5: Because they spend so much money on cycle lanes that people hate. 00:17:45 Speaker 4: Actually, Jonathan, Jonathan, those cycleways were actually partly funded by NZTA. 00:17:50 Speaker 5: Yeah, I know, but that money should have been put towards my point. And do you know why they're. 00:17:53 Speaker 4: Having to spend money on pipes, Jonathan? Because your government scrapped the former Three Waters Reform Programme that would have used low-interest national debt. And now 30,000 Wellingtonians can't pay their water bills because of your reforms. 00:18:04 Speaker 2: Excuse me, Aisha, please, could you tell me how you think the council's going after 12 months. 00:18:12 Speaker 3: Well, I'd say it's going as well as you can expect with the cards that they've been dealt. They've been dealt some terrible cards. 00:18:19 Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, the government hasn't done anything yet. They're talking about doing it, but they haven't actually done anything apart from the staff that some governments have. 00:18:28 Speaker 3: The government not doing anything is precisely the problem, Nick. The government said it was going to see through this amalgamation reform. The council dropped everything and put all their resources into that, and then the government's backed away from it. because it's unpopular ahead of an election. The council has a lot of challenges, long-term financial sustainability, the state of our infrastructure, the fact that there are considerable pressure on their budget between ratepayers not wanting to pay any more and the services that we expect. And within that, I think Andrew Little has led a council that has taken diverse people from across the political spectrum, and given them a way of working together. So he gets an 8 out of 10 from me. 00:19:12 Speaker 2: Tamitha gave 5. Give us your score out of 10. 00:19:14 Speaker 3: Yeah, I said 8 out of 10. 00:19:14 Speaker 2: 8 out of 10? It's because your mate's a mayor. Jonathan, get in the nicest possible way. 00:19:20 Speaker 3: And I gave you a long explanation of all the challenges he's dealing with very well. 00:19:23 Speaker 2: Okay, Jonathan, you give us your number for the Wellington City Council after 12 months. 00:19:29 Speaker 5: I like Andrew Little. He's a good guy. 00:19:31 Speaker 2: He's a lawyer. 00:19:32 Speaker 5: He's a nice guy, and I think he means well. But I think the council... You know, it goes back a long time. We've had underinvestment in infrastructure. Just look at Moa Point. The disaster there is Moa Point. I'd give the council probably right now about probably four. 00:19:46 Speaker 2: Four? 00:19:46 Speaker 3: Yeah. All

right. 00:19:47 Speaker 2: Now we've got to wrap up because we've only got half an hour. I'm going to go around the table, starting with you, Tamatha. Give us your final wrap of how you think this week's going to go really quickly and tightly, please. 00:19:59 Speaker 4: What do you mean? 00:20:00 Speaker 2: What are you looking forward to? What's the week going to be? 00:20:03 Speaker 4: I mean, it's election week. Oh, it's going to be a nerve-wracking week. I think the main thing is I want to change the government and I want to be clear to people listening to this that the only way you will change the government is by voting for Greens or for Labour. 00:20:13 Speaker 2: Are you going to hold the seat on Saturday? 00:20:16 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can give me a call on Saturday night if you like. You got my number? 00:20:20 Speaker 2: I'm the only ZB person you talk to. I know that. Aisha, are you going to be holding the seat on Saturday night? 00:20:26 Speaker 3: It is a really tight two-horse race between myself and Tamatha. And I am after every vote I can get. And my pledge is to be an MP for everyone in Wellington North. Whether you've been here for 10 years or you've just arrived, whether you're a homeowner or a renter, whether you're a senior or a student, the job of the local MP is to look after you and I'd appreciate your vote. 00:20:47 Speaker 2: Jonathan, you could be like this lucky guy. You're 67 on the list, right? So these two can fight it out and go real down the wire, and you could slip through the middle. Is that a dream? Yeah, definitely. 00:20:57 Speaker 5: I mean, I love helping out people. The last 20 years of my life, I've been dedicating it to helping charities, organizations, Iwi. As a lawyer, I've helped out everyone, and I love helping people. I love talking to people. I don't care where they're from, what their background is. If you have a problem, come and talk to me. I'll see if I can help. 00:21:13 Speaker 2: Aisha Verrill, Jonathan Pitts. And Tamitha Poole, all the very best. This is one of the two seats that I'll be sitting in with my hot fries on Saturday night watching. Yeah, can I get a promise that the winner will speak to me on Monday? 00:21:29 Speaker 5: Sure. 00:21:30 Speaker 3: Well, what? 00:21:31 Speaker 2: You're looking at me like that for Tamitha. That looks like a no. 00:21:33 Speaker 4: Well, last time I feel like we got into a bit of an argument when I did do an interview with you straight off the bat. But you know what? 00:21:41 Speaker 3: Sure. 00:21:41 Speaker 2: I mean, God damn, you have to bring in history every time. 00:21:43 Speaker 3: Hey, I said yes. I said yes. 00:21:45 Speaker 2: I said yes. We had an argument once. Have you ever had an argument with your boyfriend? Aisha, I know you'll take my call. Yeah, sure. 00:21:52 Speaker 3: Just don't make me set an alarm the day after the election. 00:21:54 Speaker 2: Yeah, not early. Jonathan, can you be a little bit more? Yeah, hell yeah, I'll be there. Give me a call. How many talk? The winner will talk to us on Monday morning. I can promise you that. Tamatha holds grudges, I remember that now. 28 minutes to 12, her father-in-law's a good guy. I'd almost vote for her that because of her father-in-law, but no.